Thank you for showing me the speaker cabinet with 15 inch subwoofer to use a mic. I have known that mic's and speakers are essentially the same thing for many years and the thought never occurred to me to use a bass speaker to get great sounding bass drum sounds. When it really should have been completely obvious to me all along. I feel like such an idiot. Thank you for pointing that out!
Just be aware though, that the speaker, whether in a cab, or not, still needs to be wired in reverse when using as a Mic I'm pretty sure. Also, you don't technically need a DI Box, but I'm not sure, if maybe there's more need for a DI if it's coming out a 1/4" speaker jack from a cab vs an XLR adapter wired off the speaker for instance. I just made an 8" sub kick out of a random 8' woofer, wired a short XLR connector to the leads in reverse(neg to pos/ pos to neg), and then I just connect an XLR cable to the XLR lead coming off the woofer, and run straight into a Mic Preamp, but with a Pad engaged. I'm fairly sure that running to a DI first is technically the proper way to do it, but I just ran mine straight to a Mic pre w/ a pad engaged, and it seemed to work great. Maybe someone who knows a bit more about it could touch on that, and if there's any negatives/risks to going straight into a preamp etc. I just heard that it could possibly be too hot for a preamp (without the DI), and overload it, but with the Pad, it seemed to work just fine, and wasn't to hot at all. Also, coming from a speaker that's wired to come 1/4" out of the Cab, is it 100 percent nessesary to go to a DI first VS having an XLR wired to the speaker, or is it literally the same thing? Oh, another thing I remember hearing, but not sure if I'm just making this up, but say you had an XLR adapter wired off the speaker, I heard that to help with the impedance, and being able to match it closer to work better just going straight to a Mic Pre, you could wire a resistor(not sure the value) across the pins of the XLR connector. Maybe something similar to how people do with an SM57 with the transformer taken out. Not to sure though.
If I ever find my passive DI box again I now know how to do a bunch of stuff with it that I didn't know I could do previously. I mean, you're telling me I already *own* a re-amping box? This was hands down the best video on DI boxes I've ever seen!
If anyone is interested in buying one our direct boxes, we've added a link in the description. The current one uses better switches, and has a more durable powder-coated finish. We build them in batches, so if we're sold out, we can put you on a list for the next run.
One very important point : the level output from your DAW is usually very high. Way to high for an instrument input on an amplifier. Send the recorded signal to an output buss and lower the fader to -20 dB at least. For safety put a limiter on the output channel set to -20dB so you don't overload the input preamp on your amp. Another solution is to use the pad on the D.I if you have one.
for instance if the peak level of the signal 0dBFS then the electrical peak level will be +10dBu for the difference signal of the balanced output of a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (the one i know exactly) audio interface... +7 if you use a mono jack. ... i don't know the levels in dBu of what comes out of an electric guitar actually...
I recorded at a studio with a “noisy old plate.” Turns out they were just sending an unbalanced line all the way back to the reverb. Once they used a couple of DIs to balance the run, wow that old reverb sure sounded amazing.
That's so great. I wish I knew that 30 years ago hahaha . The speaker cab on the kick Is genius. The passive DI is the shit. I'm going to order one now. I've never had one
wow great video. That's really interesting that a di box is all one needs to make a sub kick. I've made them by swapping the wires around, but when i do that the subkicks are always too loud for my interface, and clip it! I ended up buying a whirlwind pad reducer, which works great. but i had no idea i could use a speaker cabinet as it is, and just put a line booster on it. that's great! i'm gonna try that.
This channel has the best tips and tricks along with expert level knowledge on these subjects that I’ve found on UA-cam so far. Thank you for this incredible 8min gem of a video
Great video indeed, even if the last example makes me think that such illustrations would have been really apreciated for any of the others situations. Video link saved in my favorites, of course.
What a great video, thank you! So much useful info, and so well explained and demonstrated, thanks. And, LOVE your reaction at 3:21; hahaha! (wonderful that your videos are informative and humourous too).
Hi EA folks! Love these vids, unsure if you'll see this comment on an old one, but I had a question about the speaker-as-mic. I've done this a couple of times with shoddily re-wired amps, but this seems so much easier. Does that cabinet have an output wired into it, like for chaining, or are you using what would normally be the "input" from the head as the output to the DI? And, is the cable you're using an instrument or speaker cable? I know the possibility of atomic explosion if you mix those cables up, so I want to be sure before I go plugging in! Thanks again.
Fender Deluxxx Rever b silver face also does the sub kick trick, due to its rec output trafo wired in parallel w the amplifier speaker output. A boon and a bane if recording in tight spaces, the lo fi kick drum/bass amp signal coming thru yer Guitar channel inputs
This will vary depending on what equipment you're sending the signal to, as well as whether or not you have or are using a PAD on your DI or Re-Amp box. I'd recommend starting with the output from your DAW all the way down, then slowly increasing it until you're satisfied with the sound coming out of your re-amp rig. If the equipment sounds overloaded, back the level off a little bit at a time.
They were made in-house at some point. We call them "Dietz" cabinets, but they are based on the EV TL606 design. You can find plans publicly available, and a few companies made cabinets with this exact design.
Great video. But I was wondering if you've tested using passive DI's for reaming and for balanced signal extensions against a purpose built reamp or something like the radial sgi, and if you've found there to be any difference or degradation in audio quality?
Have not - one brand of transformer might color the signal more/differently than another, but the signal integrity should be consistent if it's built properly. Less about quality, more about personal taste. Cheers!
Good stuff! Though, you don't need a DI to use a speaker as a mic. In fact the DI is kind of doing the opposite of what you want in regard to impedance, as a speaker is really low-z, like 4-16 Ohm. You can use a simple 1/4" to XLR-Male cable for the cab shown. I like a little open back practice combo amp, so I made an XLR with alligator clips. I connect pin 2&3 to the +&- on the speaker, and pin 1 (ground) to the metal frame. This provides a good hot signal at the mic pre, with as much low-frequency information intact as possible. Cheers!
Reamping with a DI will give you a thin, weak, and noisy signal. It seems like the math should work in reverse but it actually does not. You CAN however, easily re-wire a DI box backwards inside so the balanced (XLR input goes to the opposite side of the transformer and accurately steps the signal to a line level. This converted signal is exactly what you recorded with your DAW. If you have a soldering iron and a couple extra pieces of wire it’s easy to convert a $20 DI box to a reamp box.
Hi there, A couple things we should point out that your post brings up. First, this will only work with a passive DI, not an active DI, and it must be used in reverse. Meaning you connect the line output of the converter/ console/ whatever to the XLR input, and then the 1/4" jack to an amp. Second, we are more concerned with the impedance relationships than the level relationships setup by the DI. One side of the transformer is Hi-Z (high impedance), the other is low. A line output from an AD converter/ console output will be low impedance, and needs to be stepped up to the high-impedance to drive an amp. If we didn't need to deal with the impedance relationship, we could simply plug the line out from the console into an amp, and adjust the output level. When the signal's impedance is stepped up, the level will also step up, so you invariably need to bring the level down at the output by quite a bit. But in most cases, this is easily done by turning the DAW fader down, or lowering an output fader/ pot on a console, etc. The fact that you are getting a thin, weak, noisy signal suggests that maybe you are trying to use the DI not in reverse, or using an active DI. In the former case, you are stepping down the impedance and level. The level will be more in line with what the amp wants, but the impedance relationship will be further from what we want, which will degrade the sound. In the latter case, you are outputting only cross-talk to the amp, so the signal would be terrible! Active DIs use buffer amps to setup the proper impedance relationship, and they only work in one direction, going from hi-Z instrument level to low-Z mic level. The transformer in a passive DI is agnostic about which end goes where, etc.
I like sticking a sm57 beater side, aimed right at the impact spot. Stan Lynch did that with Tom Petty. Sounds massive, can even work for hip hop. Don't forget polarity issues tho
Regarding the re-amping aspect of this video ... when does the distance become an issue? Your piping the source signal from the console/daw output to the re-amp box in the live room ... that looks like a country mile ... is the assumption that the console/daw output is balanced line level?
Exactly, the signal there is balanced until it gets to the DI. If the signal was unbalanced, there would be potential for the aforementioned signal degradation in a run that long.
Honest question - Why is a re-amp box or passive DI necessary for "re-amping"? The output impedance of an audio interface is going to be low, but so is the output impedance of almost any effect pedal. If raising the impedance of a source to match the high input impedance of a guitar amp or effect pedal is necessary then wouldn't a chain of effect pedals, or a boss tuner in front of a guitar amp present the same loading or mismatched impedance issue?
With voltage transmission (ie the voltage is what "represents" the signal), the ideal impedance relationship between an output and the input it feeds is that the output impedance should be very low compared to the input impedance it feeds. This is called impedance bridging (as opposed to matching, where low feeds low or high feeds high, which is ideal in a power transmission scenario). It ensures that there is maximum voltage transmission to the load/ minimal voltage loss at the output stage relative to the input it feeds. Mic preamp output impedances are really really low, like 150 ohms to 600 ohms, and usually feed line level input stages with input impedances that are like 10k or so. A guitar's output impedance is wayyyy higher, like 10k or so, and feeds input stages that are often around 1 Mega-ohm (1 million ohms). So while the output impedances are low relative to the input impedances in both cases, they are at quite different scales, a couple orders of magnitude off from each other, and the reamp or DI raises the output impedance of the line-level signal to around instrument-level impedance. (But it also raises the signal level in so doing, hence the need to bring the signal level way down in the DAW when using a passive DI to do this- when you lower or raise signal or impedance with a transformer, the other raises or lowers with it.)
What prevents me from running a dynamic mic straight into pedals without a DI (with a XLR/TRS cable)? I don't seem to notice any issues? Same goes to when I use my audio interface and forget to switch the input from instrument to line level, it doesn't seem to affect the signal whatsoever (and vice-versa when I plug an instrument). What should I expect? What are the problems I should be hearing?
Mic level and impedance are considerably lower than instrument level and impedance, which is what the pedals "expect" to see. The level difference may not be an issue if the pedals have a ton of gain, but the impedance mismatch may compromise the signal (distortion, inaccurace frequency response).
Can anyone run through the using guitar pedals with a mic and using phantom power, i got lost there do you connect the output of your interface with phantom power engaged to the first di box?
Electrical Audio - ah cool, I want to build a couple di’s with those Jensens, I don’t think their schematic includes a pad, I’ll have to take a look. Do you find noise issues when you use it as a reamp, going from a +4 output to the di? I want to reamp with it as well and I’m wondering if I’d need an H pad between my interface and the di?
@@regortex3364 We don't generally find reamping with it to be noisy. We are accustomed to bringing down the level of the send from the interface to the DI considerably (20dB and more, typically).
Also with the drum kit speaker, is that a custom output for it to act as a microphone, or can you use any speaker and just attach its input cable, to the input of the DI?
It is not, because active direct boxes use buffer amps to change impedance, which are inherently one-directional, they can only convert an instrument level and impedance signal down to mic level and impedance. A passive DI uses a transformer which can operate "in both directions."
For a vocal effects, do i need first DI box or can i just use XLR to mono jack converter, plug it straight into first effect, and use DI box at the end of the chain? cheers
You should NOT use a simple jack converter to plug a mic straight into a guitar pedal, as the mic level is significantly lower level and impedance than the pedal is designed to accept. The DI brings level and impedance up to around what the pedal "wants." There are some XLR to 1/4" TS (mono) adapters that have a small transformer built into them, but the transformers are generally not great, and if you have a DI the transformer will usually be better in that than in those adapter.
Hi EA, I am trying to find a pair of DI boxes for the "extended [cable] run" tip that you gave. Any recommendations on what product(s) would allow me to accomplish this? I cannot find a DI that will convert balanced low impedance back to unbalanced high impedance.
Heya, any passive DI will do. The better the transformer, the better the DI will perform. A good passive DI with a good transformer is the Radial Jensen DI (JDI), but there are plenty out there.
The re-amping scenario: record a dry signal into a recorder (tape or DAW) as usual. Play that signal out of a line output, like a converter DA output, and plug that line out into the passive DI's XLR connector (the low Z side of the transformer), and connect an amp to the 1/4" side (hi-Z side). A passive DI is just a transformer in an enclosure with some facilities for interfacing to different equipment. The XLR conector doesn't have to be a mic level signal, and it doesn't have to be an input. You're really just using the DI to set the impedance of the dry signal for re-amping into the range the amp "wants." You will almost certainly have to lower the level at the output from the recorder (by turning your DAW output fader down when you're working digitally) because when you step up the impedance with a transformer, the level also increases.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial but you plug female xlr into line outputs. On the other end of the mic cable is male xlr and that wouldn’t fit into the di box. You would need a mic cable with female xlr on both ends but that’s not how I see you doing that…
@@maxwellbrewer8637 just get whatever adapter you need. There are male- to-male and female-to-female XLR adapters, or you could make a crossover cable with whatever connectors you need.
I bought a reamp box with the idea of connecting my synthesizers and drum machines to my pedals. However, it has a balanced input, so I don't know what cables I need. Would a TS to XLR cable do the job? Would I need to put a DI box in between? Should I have bought just a DI box instead of a reamp box in the first place? I'm confused.
A reamp box is better for this than a passive DI. We pointed out that you can do reamping with a passive DI just in case folks already passive DIs, and want to get more "mileage" out of them. The input to a reamp box is usually a low-impedance line level signal, either on an XLR or a balanced TRS cable, and the output is a high-impedance instrument level signal, usually on a TS (instrument/ guitar) cable. The cable you need depends on the output from your interface or mixer and the input of the reamp box. Just get a cable that has the output connector from your interface or mixer on one end and the input connector to the Reamp box on the other.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Thank you very much for your answer! My reamp box has a balanced XLR input, so I guess I'd better buy a TS to XLR cable to connect the unbalanced mono output of the synths to the reamp box. I suppose the worst that can happen is that there will be some loss of volume, but the impedance will be right (which is what really matters to me).
@@isaacnoroncaasi If you're trying to connect a synth to an amp, you don't need a reamp box. A reamp box is for taking a signal that was recorded already and putting it back through an amplifier. If you're trying to record a synth direct to a recorder (interface / DAW or tape machine), you need a DI, be it active or passive.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Now I am confused again. My idea is to make the connection synth > pedals > audio interface > daw. The idea when I bought a reamp box was to solve the impedance mismatch (and volume differences) between the synth and the pedals. As I understand I could benefit from placing a DI box before the audio interface (although mine has a built in preamp that meets my needs for the moment), but I would still have the first problem, as I would have to place it after the pedals in any case... Is that right?
@@isaacnoroncaasi Ah, you bought the wrong thing. You need a DI, and it should be feeding a mic preamp rather than the line input on an interface. The reamp box goes from high signal, low-z (impedance) to lower signal, hi-z, while a DI is meant to go from higher signal, hi-z to lower signal, lower-z. So your chain should be synth -> pedals -> DI -> mic preamp -> audio interface -> DAW. Sometimes interfaces have built-in preamps, you can just go from DI to those preamps.
Nope, no special feature on the passive DI needed. Just put it into a mic preamp, treating it as if it were a mic-level signal out of the speaker-cum-microphone.
Great video, indeed ! The last example makes me think that such illustrations (or samples) would have been really apreciated for all the previous suggestions. Video link saved in my favorites, for sure ;-)
Ok cool thank you very much for replying im totally new to the whole recording process I'm in the middle of setting up a demo/recording studio for my band and looking to study audio engineering and hopefully one day work in the industry your videos have been a big help i have gone from knowing nothing to been able to record and track songs to a satisfactory sound for my very limited expertise im happy with my progress thank you all very much you are all audio engineering gods 🙏
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial great! thanks...also, can you explain how you run the signal from the direct out of the console ?, it seems that goes to an INPUT on center field´s panel and then in to the box
@@estudiotransiente we used the console direct out because it's tape/ DAW agnostic, but if you're using a DAW you can just plug the interface/ converter DA output into the mic panel. The mic panel connectors are connected to wire connected to the patchbay, and the wire can carry signal in one direction or the other. So even though the mic panel connectors are usually used for mic inputs, and the patchbay is labelled "mic inputs," you can patch an output to one and it works fine. You will have an XLR cable with the wrong gender somewhere, but our DIs have XLR connectors of both genders run in parallel on the low impedance side. If you have a typical passive DI with a male connector, you can use a female-to-female adapter or a crossover cable, as you mentioned.
We'll at least check phase. When recording digitally, it's easy enough to scoot one track or another to get them in a more ideal phase relationship. If we're in the analog domain (recording to tape), we would use a "precision" delay. See our other video on Time Alignment for more info on the latter!
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial, definitely watched that video. I’m familiar w/ the usual DAW concepts of alignment, I guess just curious which mics you all ‘flatten’ to which ones and which ones remain with their un-aligned timing. For example, some people do all the close mics back to the overheads, except maybe any internal kick mics are just pushed back to the outer kick mic, and then rooms are left alone (or scooted around to play with the comb filtering or create a slap if wanted, but not put in line with the close mics). Just curious.
@@busyboxst7 Every engineer does it differently, and that includes here. At the very least, we audition polarity flips on any mics on the same source. So with a drum kit, we flip close mics on the same drum against each other, and then check individual drums against overheads are what we flip close mics against- standard stuff. We generally won't use the microdelays to align many mics for a couple practical reasons: it takes an incredibly long time (and drummers already hate sound-checking, and the client is paying for that time); and we don't have 8-14 channels of these delays to align every mic. Plus, we often use multiple stereo pairs (overheads, plus front-of-kit, plus rooms), and at that point, each close-miked drum will arrive with a different delay to each stereo pair, so all bets are off! For example, the snare may arrive in the overheads 10us later than the close mics, and 15us later in the center-of-kit; the floor tom may arrive 11us later in the overheads than close mics and 13us later in the center-of-kit. So you simply can't delay the close mics and overheads to get everything ideally in phase- something will still have an arrival delay somewhere. All this miking invariably causes some loss of phase coherence, but the trade-offs may be worth it. With a DI-and-mic situation, the phase coherence is easier to suss out because there are only two signals, and their phase relationship is very often in that wide zone between 0 and 180 degrees out of phase, so aligning has a clear and immediately audible benefit (and you can't spend 30 minutes driving yourself and your client mad trying to create an impossibly perfect phase relationship between 14 mics).
Don't you end up with better treble (if say doing electronic music) running an active reamper , compared to running a passive DI backwards? Or just use an active DI backwards? Oh wait, I think the issue is that my DJ mixer has line level aux/sends and outputs - so a reamper works better converting line to hi-z. I guess if had mic output on console would be more versatile to buy two passive DIs for these setups. I have a passive DI and an active re-amper (as I have a high output bare knuckle pickups 7 string and an active fernandes sustainer 6 string, as well as wanting to run electronic channels from my DAW/mixer) - was thinking might be worthwhile to get an active DI also for versatility/recording passive bass/recording lower output guitars and other instruments?
A pedal or anything made to work with a Hi-Z source should be fine with a low impedance source as well, for kind of the same reason that a power supply can exceed the current rating of any given device, and it won't be a problem since the the circuitry in the device will only ever draw as much current as it needs. The circuitry in a pedal will only draw the current from the source that it is designed to do, so as long as voltage levels are adjusted (which OTOH is crucial) you shouldn't need to convert a lower impedance source to a higher one to accommodate, say, a pedal or amp. I'll admit I haven't done the experiment, but the theory, at least as far as I understand it, doesn't support doing that.
Hi there, thanks for your comment. I think it's important to detangle the two signal transfer modes here. If you are concerned with transferring the most current possible, this is a called power transfer, and you want to match input and output impedances as closely as possible (this is called impedance "matching"). If you are concerned with transferring the most voltage possible, which is the case in most "small signal" studio situations where we're dealing with instruments and mics and not powering speakers, you want to setup a "bridging" relationship where the output impedance is low and the input impedance is high, so that there is minimal loss at output. What we demonstrate here is that you can setup the proper bridging impedance and level relationships and/ or convert balanced to unbalanced in a number of circumstances here with a passive DI. You can do this with any passive DI, but ours are extra convenient because the have both types of XLR connectors so you can "go the other way" stepping up impedance and level and converting balanced to unbalanced without an adapter. If you were to try to plug a mic straight into a pedal, the impedance relationship is not the issue. The signal level from the mic output will be extremely low, so you need to amplify it with a preamp, and then output the preamp to the pedals. If you are trying to "reamp" a signal (go from line-level, balanced to instrument level, unbalanced pedals or amp), a DI in reverse can convert balanced to unbalanced and provide ground isolation between your console/ converters/ studio equipment and the guitar pedals and amp. You will be stepping up the already-high level and impedance, and so to bring the signal down to usable level you would have to attenuate the level in a DAW or at a console. The impedance relationship will still be properly bridged because guitar pedal inputs are high. Power draw from a pedal, or any electronic device, is totally different. Yes, it's important to have current overhead for any electronic, but it's a separate issue than the impedance and level issues here. Maybe you are saying that there is "impedance overhead" between a line-level output and the guitar pedal's input impedance, but that seems like a strange analogy!
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Your point in the first paragraph was exactly what prompted me to comment that it makes no sense to "up" the source impedance from a low output impedance source like a mixing desk. Unless I totally misunderstood, in the video you explain how to use the DI to make such a source "look" like a Hi-Z pickup coil , to then feed a pedal or amp, and precisely because of what you state here that wouldn't be necessary since it is already Lo-Z going into Hi-Z which is great.
Thank you for showing me the speaker cabinet with 15 inch subwoofer to use a mic. I have known that mic's and speakers are essentially the same thing for many years and the thought never occurred to me to use a bass speaker to get great sounding bass drum sounds. When it really should have been completely obvious to me all along. I feel like such an idiot. Thank you for pointing that out!
Just be aware though, that the speaker, whether in a cab, or not, still needs to be wired in reverse when using as a Mic I'm pretty sure. Also, you don't technically need a DI Box, but I'm not sure, if maybe there's more need for a DI if it's coming out a 1/4" speaker jack from a cab vs an XLR adapter wired off the speaker for instance.
I just made an 8" sub kick out of a random 8' woofer, wired a short XLR connector to the leads in reverse(neg to pos/ pos to neg), and then I just connect an XLR cable to the XLR lead coming off the woofer, and run straight into a Mic Preamp, but with a Pad engaged. I'm fairly sure that running to a DI first is technically the proper way to do it, but I just ran mine straight to a Mic pre w/ a pad engaged, and it seemed to work great.
Maybe someone who knows a bit more about it could touch on that, and if there's any negatives/risks to going straight into a preamp etc. I just heard that it could possibly be too hot for a preamp (without the DI), and overload it, but with the Pad, it seemed to work just fine, and wasn't to hot at all. Also, coming from a speaker that's wired to come 1/4" out of the Cab, is it 100 percent nessesary to go to a DI first VS having an XLR wired to the speaker, or is it literally the same thing?
Oh, another thing I remember hearing, but not sure if I'm just making this up, but say you had an XLR adapter wired off the speaker, I heard that to help with the impedance, and being able to match it closer to work better just going straight to a Mic Pre, you could wire a resistor(not sure the value) across the pins of the XLR connector. Maybe something similar to how people do with an SM57 with the transformer taken out. Not to sure though.
If I ever find my passive DI box again I now know how to do a bunch of stuff with it that I didn't know I could do previously. I mean, you're telling me I already *own* a re-amping box?
This was hands down the best video on DI boxes I've ever seen!
hey man there are $10 DI boxes
If anyone is interested in buying one our direct boxes, we've added a link in the description. The current one uses better switches, and has a more durable powder-coated finish. We build them in batches, so if we're sold out, we can put you on a list for the next run.
One very important point : the level output from your DAW is usually very high. Way to high for an instrument input on an amplifier. Send the recorded signal to an output buss and lower the fader to -20 dB at least. For safety put a limiter on the output channel set to -20dB so you don't overload the input preamp on your amp. Another solution is to use the pad on the D.I if you have one.
for instance if the peak level of the signal 0dBFS then the electrical peak level will be +10dBu for the difference signal of the balanced output of a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (the one i know exactly) audio interface... +7 if you use a mono jack.
... i don't know the levels in dBu of what comes out of an electric guitar actually...
I recorded at a studio with a “noisy old plate.” Turns out they were just sending an unbalanced line all the way back to the reverb. Once they used a couple of DIs to balance the run, wow that old reverb sure sounded amazing.
This was a HUGE help. I've never even attempted re-amping until now, and I was fully unaware that I have everything I need to do it. Thank you!
Another PERFECT video!
I have been looking for a way to do vocal effects like this since 2019... how did I not find this video sooner
Look no further 😉
www.radialeng.com/product/extc-stereo
That's so great. I wish I knew that 30 years ago hahaha . The speaker cab on the kick Is genius. The passive DI is the shit. I'm going to order one now. I've never had one
My girlfriend told me she can't see herself marrying a man who doesn't know how to use a DI box properly, so here I am.
That's one girl with her head screwed on right
Incredibly helpful tips - thanks a lot!
I bought 2 of these and they are a really great asset to my recording..👍.
Wow I learned a lot. That's was almost the most informative video I've watched on UA-cam.
wow great video. That's really interesting that a di box is all one needs to make a sub kick. I've made them by swapping the wires around, but when i do that the subkicks are always too loud for my interface, and clip it! I ended up buying a whirlwind pad reducer, which works great. but i had no idea i could use a speaker cabinet as it is, and just put a line booster on it. that's great! i'm gonna try that.
This channel has the best tips and tricks along with expert level knowledge on these subjects that I’ve found on UA-cam so far. Thank you for this incredible 8min gem of a video
Great video indeed, even if the last example makes me think that such illustrations would have been really apreciated for any of the others situations.
Video link saved in my favorites, of course.
What a great video, thank you! So much useful info, and so well explained and demonstrated, thanks. And, LOVE your reaction at 3:21; hahaha! (wonderful that your videos are informative and humourous too).
I'm a career engineer and never knew this. Thanks very much for the walk-through!
Hi EA folks! Love these vids, unsure if you'll see this comment on an old one, but I had a question about the speaker-as-mic. I've done this a couple of times with shoddily re-wired amps, but this seems so much easier. Does that cabinet have an output wired into it, like for chaining, or are you using what would normally be the "input" from the head as the output to the DI? And, is the cable you're using an instrument or speaker cable? I know the possibility of atomic explosion if you mix those cables up, so I want to be sure before I go plugging in! Thanks again.
Fender Deluxxx Rever b silver face also does the sub kick trick, due to its rec output trafo wired in parallel w the amplifier speaker output.
A boon and a bane if recording in tight spaces, the lo fi kick drum/bass amp signal coming thru yer Guitar channel inputs
RIP Steve ❤
What db level should be feeding the DI for reamping?
This will vary depending on what equipment you're sending the signal to, as well as whether or not you have or are using a PAD on your DI or Re-Amp box. I'd recommend starting with the output from your DAW all the way down, then slowly increasing it until you're satisfied with the sound coming out of your re-amp rig. If the equipment sounds overloaded, back the level off a little bit at a time.
Listening to this on a laptop and I can't hear the bass cabinet subkick. Will using a passive DI fix this? Or do I need a pop filter?
Sure...
Filter the pop all the way.
Use a coffee filter.
Try Coke
That's a beautiful bass cabinet. Who made it? Really neat idea using it as a sub mic. I haven't seen that exactly before.
They were made in-house at some point. We call them "Dietz" cabinets, but they are based on the EV TL606 design. You can find plans publicly available, and a few companies made cabinets with this exact design.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Thank you for the information!
Great video.
But I was wondering if you've tested using passive DI's for reaming and for balanced signal extensions against a purpose built reamp or something like the radial sgi, and if you've found there to be any difference or degradation in audio quality?
Have not - one brand of transformer might color the signal more/differently than another, but the signal integrity should be consistent if it's built properly. Less about quality, more about personal taste.
Cheers!
Good stuff!
Though, you don't need a DI to use a speaker as a mic. In fact the DI is kind of doing the opposite of what you want in regard to impedance, as a speaker is really low-z, like 4-16 Ohm. You can use a simple 1/4" to XLR-Male cable for the cab shown. I like a little open back practice combo amp, so I made an XLR with alligator clips. I connect pin 2&3 to the +&- on the speaker, and pin 1 (ground) to the metal frame. This provides a good hot signal at the mic pre, with as much low-frequency information intact as possible. Cheers!
My word what is that on your desk. That is a digital computer thing!
Reamping with a DI will give you a thin, weak, and noisy signal. It seems like the math should work in reverse but it actually does not. You CAN however, easily re-wire a DI box backwards inside so the balanced (XLR input goes to the opposite side of the transformer and accurately steps the signal to a line level. This converted signal is exactly what you recorded with your DAW. If you have a soldering iron and a couple extra pieces of wire it’s easy to convert a $20 DI box to a reamp box.
Hi there,
A couple things we should point out that your post brings up.
First, this will only work with a passive DI, not an active DI, and it must be used in reverse. Meaning you connect the line output of the converter/ console/ whatever to the XLR input, and then the 1/4" jack to an amp.
Second, we are more concerned with the impedance relationships than the level relationships setup by the DI. One side of the transformer is Hi-Z (high impedance), the other is low. A line output from an AD converter/ console output will be low impedance, and needs to be stepped up to the high-impedance to drive an amp. If we didn't need to deal with the impedance relationship, we could simply plug the line out from the console into an amp, and adjust the output level.
When the signal's impedance is stepped up, the level will also step up, so you invariably need to bring the level down at the output by quite a bit. But in most cases, this is easily done by turning the DAW fader down, or lowering an output fader/ pot on a console, etc.
The fact that you are getting a thin, weak, noisy signal suggests that maybe you are trying to use the DI not in reverse, or using an active DI. In the former case, you are stepping down the impedance and level. The level will be more in line with what the amp wants, but the impedance relationship will be further from what we want, which will degrade the sound. In the latter case, you are outputting only cross-talk to the amp, so the signal would be terrible! Active DIs use buffer amps to setup the proper impedance relationship, and they only work in one direction, going from hi-Z instrument level to low-Z mic level. The transformer in a passive DI is agnostic about which end goes where, etc.
An absolute necessity of information
If you use a cabinet to mic a kick drum, where do you fit any other mics??
On the pedal side?
I like sticking a sm57 beater side, aimed right at the impact spot. Stan Lynch did that with Tom Petty. Sounds massive, can even work for hip hop. Don't forget polarity issues tho
What the heck is a ...signal?
Regarding the re-amping aspect of this video ... when does the distance become an issue? Your piping the source signal from the console/daw output to the re-amp box in the live room ... that looks like a country mile ... is the assumption that the console/daw output is balanced line level?
Exactly, the signal there is balanced until it gets to the DI. If the signal was unbalanced, there would be potential for the aforementioned signal degradation in a run that long.
When using a bass cab to mic a bass drum do you have to reverse polarities on signal or leave it as is? Great video!!! Thank you!!
There isn't a rule one way or the other. As always, check by flipping and use your ears!
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Thank you for the reply! Your videos are gold!
Honest question - Why is a re-amp box or passive DI necessary for "re-amping"? The output impedance of an audio interface is going to be low, but so is the output impedance of almost any effect pedal. If raising the impedance of a source to match the high input impedance of a guitar amp or effect pedal is necessary then wouldn't a chain of effect pedals, or a boss tuner in front of a guitar amp present the same loading or mismatched impedance issue?
With voltage transmission (ie the voltage is what "represents" the signal), the ideal impedance relationship between an output and the input it feeds is that the output impedance should be very low compared to the input impedance it feeds. This is called impedance bridging (as opposed to matching, where low feeds low or high feeds high, which is ideal in a power transmission scenario). It ensures that there is maximum voltage transmission to the load/ minimal voltage loss at the output stage relative to the input it feeds.
Mic preamp output impedances are really really low, like 150 ohms to 600 ohms, and usually feed line level input stages with input impedances that are like 10k or so. A guitar's output impedance is wayyyy higher, like 10k or so, and feeds input stages that are often around 1 Mega-ohm (1 million ohms). So while the output impedances are low relative to the input impedances in both cases, they are at quite different scales, a couple orders of magnitude off from each other, and the reamp or DI raises the output impedance of the line-level signal to around instrument-level impedance. (But it also raises the signal level in so doing, hence the need to bring the signal level way down in the DAW when using a passive DI to do this- when you lower or raise signal or impedance with a transformer, the other raises or lowers with it.)
What prevents me from running a dynamic mic straight into pedals without a DI (with a XLR/TRS cable)? I don't seem to notice any issues? Same goes to when I use my audio interface and forget to switch the input from instrument to line level, it doesn't seem to affect the signal whatsoever (and vice-versa when I plug an instrument). What should I expect? What are the problems I should be hearing?
Mic level and impedance are considerably lower than instrument level and impedance, which is what the pedals "expect" to see. The level difference may not be an issue if the pedals have a ton of gain, but the impedance mismatch may compromise the signal (distortion, inaccurace frequency response).
Can anyone run through the using guitar pedals with a mic and using phantom power, i got lost there do you connect the output of your interface with phantom power engaged to the first di box?
Which is best for active bass/ guitar pickups?
Really cool!
Bona! What fun 👍🏻
Great demo! Are the two toggles for ground lift and polarity?
Thank you! The switches are for ground lift and pad (to switch between line level and instrument level).
Electrical Audio - ah cool, I want to build a couple di’s with those Jensens, I don’t think their schematic includes a pad, I’ll have to take a look. Do you find noise issues when you use it as a reamp, going from a +4 output to the di? I want to reamp with it as well and I’m wondering if I’d need an H pad between my interface and the di?
@@regortex3364 We don't generally find reamping with it to be noisy. We are accustomed to bringing down the level of the send from the interface to the DI considerably (20dB and more, typically).
Electrical Audio - good to know, Thanks for the info!
Thank you so much!!!!
What's with all the noise embedded in the beginning audio clip?
it's from the 16mm film projector, Electrical Audio is strictly analog, even on youtube
I dig the bass drum trick
Also with the drum kit speaker, is that a custom output for it to act as a microphone, or can you use any speaker and just attach its input cable, to the input of the DI?
It's just the speaker jack on the cab.
Hi! Is it possible to do the vocal effect trick with active diboxes too?
It is not, because active direct boxes use buffer amps to change impedance, which are inherently one-directional, they can only convert an instrument level and impedance signal down to mic level and impedance. A passive DI uses a transformer which can operate "in both directions."
Thanks
For a vocal effects, do i need first DI box or can i just use XLR to mono jack converter, plug it straight into first effect, and use DI box at the end of the chain? cheers
You should NOT use a simple jack converter to plug a mic straight into a guitar pedal, as the mic level is significantly lower level and impedance than the pedal is designed to accept. The DI brings level and impedance up to around what the pedal "wants." There are some XLR to 1/4" TS (mono) adapters that have a small transformer built into them, but the transformers are generally not great, and if you have a DI the transformer will usually be better in that than in those adapter.
Hi EA, I am trying to find a pair of DI boxes for the "extended [cable] run" tip that you gave. Any recommendations on what product(s) would allow me to accomplish this? I cannot find a DI that will convert balanced low impedance back to unbalanced high impedance.
Heya, any passive DI will do. The better the transformer, the better the DI will perform. A good passive DI with a good transformer is the Radial Jensen DI (JDI), but there are plenty out there.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial thanks so much for taking the time to answer my question!
For use #2, how are you sending an output from a mic input???
The re-amping scenario: record a dry signal into a recorder (tape or DAW) as usual. Play that signal out of a line output, like a converter DA output, and plug that line out into the passive DI's XLR connector (the low Z side of the transformer), and connect an amp to the 1/4" side (hi-Z side).
A passive DI is just a transformer in an enclosure with some facilities for interfacing to different equipment. The XLR conector doesn't have to be a mic level signal, and it doesn't have to be an input. You're really just using the DI to set the impedance of the dry signal for re-amping into the range the amp "wants." You will almost certainly have to lower the level at the output from the recorder (by turning your DAW output fader down when you're working digitally) because when you step up the impedance with a transformer, the level also increases.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial but you plug female xlr into line outputs. On the other end of the mic cable is male xlr and that wouldn’t fit into the di box. You would need a mic cable with female xlr on both ends but that’s not how I see you doing that…
@@maxwellbrewer8637 just get whatever adapter you need. There are male- to-male and female-to-female XLR adapters, or you could make a crossover cable with whatever connectors you need.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial ahh I see, thank you!
Great vid! what brand/model are those D.I.s?
Thank you! Those are Electrical Audio DIs. They are based on the Jensen JT-DB-E transformer.
I bought a reamp box with the idea of connecting my synthesizers and drum machines to my pedals. However, it has a balanced input, so I don't know what cables I need. Would a TS to XLR cable do the job? Would I need to put a DI box in between? Should I have bought just a DI box instead of a reamp box in the first place? I'm confused.
A reamp box is better for this than a passive DI. We pointed out that you can do reamping with a passive DI just in case folks already passive DIs, and want to get more "mileage" out of them.
The input to a reamp box is usually a low-impedance line level signal, either on an XLR or a balanced TRS cable, and the output is a high-impedance instrument level signal, usually on a TS (instrument/ guitar) cable. The cable you need depends on the output from your interface or mixer and the input of the reamp box. Just get a cable that has the output connector from your interface or mixer on one end and the input connector to the Reamp box on the other.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Thank you very much for your answer! My reamp box has a balanced XLR input, so I guess I'd better buy a TS to XLR cable to connect the unbalanced mono output of the synths to the reamp box. I suppose the worst that can happen is that there will be some loss of volume, but the impedance will be right (which is what really matters to me).
@@isaacnoroncaasi If you're trying to connect a synth to an amp, you don't need a reamp box. A reamp box is for taking a signal that was recorded already and putting it back through an amplifier.
If you're trying to record a synth direct to a recorder (interface / DAW or tape machine), you need a DI, be it active or passive.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Now I am confused again. My idea is to make the connection synth > pedals > audio interface > daw. The idea when I bought a reamp box was to solve the impedance mismatch (and volume differences) between the synth and the pedals. As I understand I could benefit from placing a DI box before the audio interface (although mine has a built in preamp that meets my needs for the moment), but I would still have the first problem, as I would have to place it after the pedals in any case... Is that right?
@@isaacnoroncaasi Ah, you bought the wrong thing. You need a DI, and it should be feeding a mic preamp rather than the line input on an interface. The reamp box goes from high signal, low-z (impedance) to lower signal, hi-z, while a DI is meant to go from higher signal, hi-z to lower signal, lower-z.
So your chain should be synth -> pedals -> DI -> mic preamp -> audio interface -> DAW. Sometimes interfaces have built-in preamps, you can just go from
DI to those preamps.
talking about the sub kick thing: do I need to have a DI with a “speaker” attenuation of some sort? or can I just treat is as a line level signal?
Nope, no special feature on the passive DI needed. Just put it into a mic preamp, treating it as if it were a mic-level signal out of the speaker-cum-microphone.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial awesome! will definitely try it. thanks! (:
Great video, indeed ! The last example makes me think that such illustrations (or samples) would have been really apreciated for all the previous suggestions.
Video link saved in my favorites, for sure ;-)
Do you still need a passive di box if you are going direct out of the di input on the back of a bass amp
If you want a direct signal for recording, that should be fine. You can't do any of the other things discussed here with a built-in amp DI, though.
Ok cool thank you very much for replying im totally new to the whole recording process I'm in the middle of setting up a demo/recording studio for my band and looking to study audio engineering and hopefully one day work in the industry your videos have been a big help i have gone from knowing nothing to been able to record and track songs to a satisfactory sound for my very limited expertise im happy with my progress thank you all very much you are all audio engineering gods 🙏
if I have a regular di box, can I use one of this female to female adapters to go from output of my DAW and run through the box for reamping?
If it is a passive DI, yes. If it is an active DI, no, it won't work.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial great! thanks...also, can you explain how you run the signal from the direct out of the console ?, it seems that goes to an INPUT on center field´s panel and then in to the box
@@estudiotransiente we used the console direct out because it's tape/ DAW agnostic, but if you're using a DAW you can just plug the interface/ converter DA output into the mic panel.
The mic panel connectors are connected to wire connected to the patchbay, and the wire can carry signal in one direction or the other. So even though the mic panel connectors are usually used for mic inputs, and the patchbay is labelled "mic inputs," you can patch an output to one and it works fine. You will have an XLR cable with the wrong gender somewhere, but our DIs have XLR connectors of both genders run in parallel on the low impedance side. If you have a typical passive DI with a male connector, you can use a female-to-female adapter or a crossover cable, as you mentioned.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial mind blowing, this is one of those things you know but are so elementary that you don´t realise....thank you so much!
Very interesting drum part but I'd take that 16 inch medium crash and frisbee it into the nearest deep water horizon. I hate those things.
Do yall tend to delay the other kick mics in time to match the sub kick ?
We'll at least check phase. When recording digitally, it's easy enough to scoot one track or another to get them in a more ideal phase relationship. If we're in the analog domain (recording to tape), we would use a "precision" delay. See our other video on Time Alignment for more info on the latter!
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial, definitely watched that video. I’m familiar w/ the usual DAW concepts of alignment, I guess just curious which mics you all ‘flatten’ to which ones and which ones remain with their un-aligned timing. For example, some people do all the close mics back to the overheads, except maybe any internal kick mics are just pushed back to the outer kick mic, and then rooms are left alone (or scooted around to play with the comb filtering or create a slap if wanted, but not put in line with the close mics). Just curious.
@@busyboxst7 Every engineer does it differently, and that includes here. At the very least, we audition polarity flips on any mics on the same source. So with a drum kit, we flip close mics on the same drum against each other, and then check individual drums against overheads are what we flip close mics against- standard stuff. We generally won't use the microdelays to align many mics for a couple practical reasons: it takes an incredibly long time (and drummers already hate sound-checking, and the client is paying for that time); and we don't have 8-14 channels of these delays to align every mic. Plus, we often use multiple stereo pairs (overheads, plus front-of-kit, plus rooms), and at that point, each close-miked drum will arrive with a different delay to each stereo pair, so all bets are off! For example, the snare may arrive in the overheads 10us later than the close mics, and 15us later in the center-of-kit; the floor tom may arrive 11us later in the overheads than close mics and 13us later in the center-of-kit. So you simply can't delay the close mics and overheads to get everything ideally in phase- something will still have an arrival delay somewhere. All this miking invariably causes some loss of phase coherence, but the trade-offs may be worth it.
With a DI-and-mic situation, the phase coherence is easier to suss out because there are only two signals, and their phase relationship is very often in that wide zone between 0 and 180 degrees out of phase, so aligning has a clear and immediately audible benefit (and you can't spend 30 minutes driving yourself and your client mad trying to create an impossibly perfect phase relationship between 14 mics).
great!
Brothers, what are these red pasive di? Model? Cheers ❤
They are a DI box that we manufacture in small runs. If you are interested in purchasing one, please email us!
5:02 This technique makes me wonder if anyone records drums by attaching transducers directly to the skin(s). Might have to try that...
contact mics are sometimes put in kick drums for a similar pulse like signal -easy to manipulate and trigger samples!
Don't you end up with better treble (if say doing electronic music) running an active reamper , compared to running a passive DI backwards? Or just use an active DI backwards? Oh wait, I think the issue is that my DJ mixer has line level aux/sends and outputs - so a reamper works better converting line to hi-z. I guess if had mic output on console would be more versatile to buy two passive DIs for these setups. I have a passive DI and an active re-amper (as I have a high output bare knuckle pickups 7 string and an active fernandes sustainer 6 string, as well as wanting to run electronic channels from my DAW/mixer) - was thinking might be worthwhile to get an active DI also for versatility/recording passive bass/recording lower output guitars and other instruments?
Good
Sounds like I'm sitting right behind the kit
🤣i am a fan vor passiv DI s ……so many possibilities
TAYLOR!
Yes?
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Blood Mambas drummer over here....
Lots of mic noise while in the guitar room
This helps me Milli Vanilli
I wanna thank you (fallettinme be mice elf, again)
A pedal or anything made to work with a Hi-Z source should be fine with a low impedance source as well, for kind of the same reason that a power supply can exceed the current rating of any given device, and it won't be a problem since the the circuitry in the device will only ever draw as much current as it needs. The circuitry in a pedal will only draw the current from the source that it is designed to do, so as long as voltage levels are adjusted (which OTOH is crucial) you shouldn't need to convert a lower impedance source to a higher one to accommodate, say, a pedal or amp. I'll admit I haven't done the experiment, but the theory, at least as far as I understand it, doesn't support doing that.
Hi there, thanks for your comment. I think it's important to detangle the two signal transfer modes here. If you are concerned with transferring the most current possible, this is a called power transfer, and you want to match input and output impedances as closely as possible (this is called impedance "matching"). If you are concerned with transferring the most voltage possible, which is the case in most "small signal" studio situations where we're dealing with instruments and mics and not powering speakers, you want to setup a "bridging" relationship where the output impedance is low and the input impedance is high, so that there is minimal loss at output.
What we demonstrate here is that you can setup the proper bridging impedance and level relationships and/ or convert balanced to unbalanced in a number of circumstances here with a passive DI. You can do this with any passive DI, but ours are extra convenient because the have both types of XLR connectors so you can "go the other way" stepping up impedance and level and converting balanced to unbalanced without an adapter.
If you were to try to plug a mic straight into a pedal, the impedance relationship is not the issue. The signal level from the mic output will be extremely low, so you need to amplify it with a preamp, and then output the preamp to the pedals. If you are trying to "reamp" a signal (go from line-level, balanced to instrument level, unbalanced pedals or amp), a DI in reverse can convert balanced to unbalanced and provide ground isolation between your console/ converters/ studio equipment and the guitar pedals and amp. You will be stepping up the already-high level and impedance, and so to bring the signal down to usable level you would have to attenuate the level in a DAW or at a console. The impedance relationship will still be properly bridged because guitar pedal inputs are high.
Power draw from a pedal, or any electronic device, is totally different. Yes, it's important to have current overhead for any electronic, but it's a separate issue than the impedance and level issues here. Maybe you are saying that there is "impedance overhead" between a line-level output and the guitar pedal's input impedance, but that seems like a strange analogy!
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Your point in the first paragraph was exactly what prompted me to comment that it makes no sense to "up" the source impedance from a low output impedance source like a mixing desk. Unless I totally misunderstood, in the video you explain how to use the DI to make such a source "look" like a Hi-Z pickup coil , to then feed a pedal or amp, and precisely because of what you state here that wouldn't be necessary since it is already Lo-Z going into Hi-Z which is great.
T-MONEY
this tone kind of sucks lmao