Justice Máire Whelan's scathing, highly critical decision in the Enoch Burke Court of Appeal case

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  • Опубліковано 2 лис 2024

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  • @franceslynch8815
    @franceslynch8815 Рік тому +2

    Very informative and clear explanation. Thank you.

  • @brianthompson5847
    @brianthompson5847 Рік тому +14

    What amazes me is how quick mr Burke can get to court and how quick he can get a resolution…..We spent 16 years going through the high court….it was a joke and the money involved was huge.

    • @Paul5520
      @Paul5520 Рік тому

      Depends on the matter in fairness. Plus it’s not over god help us.

    • @themsmloveswar3985
      @themsmloveswar3985 Місяць тому

      He MUST be controlled....

  • @seanmurphy1614
    @seanmurphy1614 Рік тому +5

    Thank you for posting this. I'm not a lawyer but I love the forensics of it. It has given me an insight to this intriguing debacle. What I found very interesting is that yes, we all have rights but not all rights are absolute. (I could be wrong in that interpretation though).

    • @terrygorry
      @terrygorry  Рік тому +4

      No, you are absolutely correct. And the school was faced with a choice between competing rights. The rest is history 👍

    • @garethronan921
      @garethronan921 Рік тому +1

      @@terrygorry is it right for a government to use a council building to attack a private family, as they did with the paddy day float about the burks, I can't think of another instance. and with our taxes. This mean any citizens who holds different point of view is open for attacks in this way surely this is criminal by government.

  • @White_Chapel
    @White_Chapel Рік тому +18

    It's a bizarre case, but there's a few important items here.
    Firstly, the school has a stated religious ethos (similar to many religious schools) which the judge carefully disregarded in favour of the school's policy comments on inclusivity. It is well known that religious ethos is cited by schools as justification for prioritising applicants on religious grounds when allocating for schools places. It appears that the interpretation of the policy is a matter of convenience in this case.
    Secondly, all media reports to date say that Burke had no contact with the pupil in the school. The school then created a hypothetical situation which demanded that he adhere to the request of the principal which Burke said was contrary to his religious beliefs and the religious ethos of the school. There is a lot of importance placed on his response to this by the school.
    In the end Burke shot himself in the foot by trying to embarrass the school principal. The court order and his conduct afterwards were then used to justify his dismissal.
    If he continued to object solely on religious grounds and was dismissed based on the hypothetical created by the school, could be not have claimed constructive dismissal?
    I believe that a different, more resonable individual in the same circumstances could easily have won the case...
    That's just my view on it..

    • @eamonreidy9534
      @eamonreidy9534 Рік тому +1

      Sense in these comments sections can be rare so thank you

    • @doloresaquines1529
      @doloresaquines1529 Рік тому +1

      @@eamonreidy9534 Yes Eamon. The majority of "viewers" on here are unable to communicate without being verbally abusive. Bullies.

    • @pats6533
      @pats6533 Місяць тому

      i suggest you read the judgement, if you have read it you clearly don't understand it . He has not been dismissed, you are not even aware of that simple fact.

  • @nerm5530
    @nerm5530 Рік тому +6

    The belittlement stuff is BS. Can’t believe she includes that in her opinion. Stick to facts and law.

    • @nerm5530
      @nerm5530 Рік тому +2

      @@seanmck46 that’s an opinion

    • @AdrianColley
      @AdrianColley Рік тому +1

      The discussion of Burke's disgraceful behaviour was relevant because it disproves his claim that he was just standing for a principle. That it ridicules him is a welcome, but unavoidable, bonus.

    • @eamonreidy9534
      @eamonreidy9534 Рік тому +1

      How one conducts themselves in court is relevant. Especially when you are looking to the court to make decisions in your favor. A persons character can regularly be referred to.

  • @chrislyons6692
    @chrislyons6692 Рік тому +10

    I'd love if Enoch ran for president or his mother Martina

    • @terrygorry
      @terrygorry  Рік тому +5

      We’d all love that 😉

    • @gerryleddy5412
      @gerryleddy5412 Рік тому +1

      is his mother called Martina? I didnt know that. I have been observing his parents, i am looking at them in comparison with Mrs and Mr White, of Trillick in County Tyrone, another christian couple

    • @chrislyons6692
      @chrislyons6692 Рік тому +4

      @@gerryleddy5412 there's not a woman in Ireland her Equal when she had her tenth child and a toddler to mind she had a few to teach in primary school and a few in secondary school and teach higher level in leaving cert in every subject and still run a house of 12

    • @AdrianColley
      @AdrianColley Рік тому +4

      Be careful what you wish for. He would be entertaining in the debates, just like a certain orange-faced American presidential candidate who was also an obvious no-hoper.

    • @Backpfeifengesicht45
      @Backpfeifengesicht45 Рік тому +2

      For feck sake. He'd just stand outside the Aras for 14 years.

  • @mclr60
    @mclr60 Рік тому +5

    There have been several litigations by this family with regard to their educational results. I have to question the efficacy of their qualifications based on the frequency of litigation in the pursuance of the results for the educational achievements of this family. Do they get their qualifications because they bully their way through? None of this family will be able to get a job in ireland, and they are piling up the fines.

    • @385Mercedes
      @385Mercedes Рік тому +1

      A good point. Institutes of higher education are not used to bullying scenarios. Supposedly a number of family members did very well in debating. How, when the rules in debating disallow their usual modus operandi?

  • @jamesfurney9651
    @jamesfurney9651 Рік тому +5

    In years to come there will be a film on this case and school will be a disgraced, and the board of management,
    History will judge all in the fullness of time. When did a student tell the school how to call them if ever student has to be called ,if there were a number of students ,who need to be call what they want, it will be fun .

    • @terrygorry
      @terrygorry  Рік тому +1

      Over an employment dispute? Hardly

    • @jamesfurney9651
      @jamesfurney9651 Рік тому +1

      @@terrygorry yes Terry just look at the muck on TV, etc, and social media,
      Love your content ,video on UA-cam ,something of high intelligence

  • @TurkConnolly
    @TurkConnolly Рік тому +7

    Is this the disgraced former AG?

  • @dazza4345
    @dazza4345 Рік тому +2

    Clearly Enoch Burke wants to prison over this case again.But will the court send him to jail again.They have let him know they he is a cost on the state.

  • @andrewtongue7084
    @andrewtongue7084 Рік тому +7

    Terry, it is understood as to why the term "egregious" was used in the context of Mr. Burke's conduct. He seems incapable of adopting any reasonable discourse with both the school & the Judiciary, involved. What bemuses me, is the fact that Mr.Burke comes from a well educated family background, & concommitant with that, an expectation of civility - again toward both the School Board & the legal infrastructure that is set under the statutes contained within the ECHR, &, given that he (Burke) has two siblings earning a living in law, should be so dismissive of the comprehensive decision made by Justice Whelan. To me, it appears no accident in the sense that the Burke family as a whole, seem hell bent (sic) in defying any & all rulings pertaining to this particular case, & indeed relative instances in regard to his younger sibling, Simeon - & that young man's conduct at Cloverhill Courthouse, last week. Precisely what is this sense of self-entitlement that the Burke dynasty appears to employ ? Arrogance, certainly. There are no measures that they will not take to vindicate their religious orthodoxy - & more disturbing, inflict (their) belief system on other individuals....As my late Mammy would espouse, "It's a headwrecker, my son.." 🤨

    • @terrygorry
      @terrygorry  Рік тому +6

      Agreed. It is like watching a number of car crashes simultaneously.
      Simeon would want to be careful. The District Court is not a university debating society 😉

    • @andrewtongue7084
      @andrewtongue7084 Рік тому

      Smiling here, Terry...no indeed it is not - that lad needs to cop onto himself - & quick - the alternative to being banjaxed for life...

  • @lyndaireland6474
    @lyndaireland6474 11 місяців тому +2

    Going back to the beginning of this unfortunate state of affairs; the school consistently claims that the e-mail concerning the use of a preferred name and pronoun was a request, not a demand; this is entirely inconsistent with what subsequently transpired. A request is something that you can refuse which he did, and the whole procedure that followed proves that it was a de facto demand. EB's avoidance of answering the question is entirely consistent with it being treated as a request. Refusing to answer questions on hypothetical scenarios regarding the request being, in fact, a demand is kafkaesque. He said that he would do nothing to break the law in his dealings with students and surely that should have sufficed... if it were a request as presented?

  • @michaellogan1428
    @michaellogan1428 Рік тому +6

    Thanks for this Terry.
    Màire Whelan does us all a good service in laying out the history of the case and her rationale in dismissing Burke's appeal.
    I don't expect Burke will take any of this on board. He has his own perverse reasons for his behaviour and shows no interest in anything else.
    My guess is he'll not be at liberty for Christmas 23.

    • @victoriapolyakova6777
      @victoriapolyakova6777 Рік тому +2

      Yes, good reason: He likes his behavior)) aaaaaa Excellent judge. I wonder in which law she subtracted this ??

    • @brianplummy
      @brianplummy Рік тому +2

      @@victoriapolyakova6777 Victoria, are you one of those planks who do not want to listen to reason? Aah, now I understand where you are coming from.

    • @victoriapolyakova6777
      @victoriapolyakova6777 Рік тому

      @@brianplummy yes, yes, we are all from there, and you too .. from this very furry between the legs)) ahaaa

    • @gerryleddy5412
      @gerryleddy5412 Рік тому

      has any evidence yet been presented to any of the judges to substantiate the claim to be Christian ? if Mr Burke views transgenderism as evil, then he if a disciple of Jesus is commanded not to resist it ,
      that's Jesus the son of God, not some new testament converted Pharisee. you find that in the Gospel of Matthew Chapter 5 verse 39.
      just curious has anyone seen any evidence of christianity as Jesus commands?

    • @janedonald1
      @janedonald1 Рік тому +2

      To my knowledge the church of Ireland has not an agreed position on this subject but has a tradition of broad church approach where people can go with their conscious on issues like this. Coercion is not part of the Church of Ireland in my experience. You do not interupt a church of Ireland service, that is unthinkable. The court have no clue about the Church of Ireland. TDs have a responsibility to create legislation that is compatible with Irish Constitution which still has a special position for a Christian church and most schools are Christian as are the majority of people , a situation like this therefore was completely foreseeable. You now have a Christian school discriminating against a Christian for their christian beliefs. Issues are arising around the Western world. There needs to be a more tolerance all around

  • @garethronan921
    @garethronan921 Рік тому

    The only thing I'm shocked and horrified about in this case is the st Patrick day float making fun of this family, its the first time the irish government used their council building to attack and make fun of a private citizen, this has never happened before, were you disagree with government and they come after you using a day of celebrations to attack this family, if they can get their council building to do this image what they can get there highly payed and appointed judges to do, all seem a bit criminal to me, I'm not religious and lol I'd probably melt if I went in church. But that was so wrong never have our government so openly used a day of celebrations to attack a private family. We reach a new low people

    • @terrygorry
      @terrygorry  Рік тому +1

      If a St. Patrick's day parade float in a provincial town in Ireland is the only thing you have to be "shocked and horrified" about you are living a charmed existence.
      To suggest the Irish government used a council building to attack and make fun of a private citizen by being involved in organising a float for a provincial town parade is such a ludicrous suggestion that it would rank up there with any conspiracy theory you care to embrace

  • @victoriapolyakova6777
    @victoriapolyakova6777 Рік тому +6

    In Ireland, it turns out that not just judges, but also psychologists. Dr. Freud in the higher courts.

    • @finneire1282
      @finneire1282 Рік тому +5

      English isn't your first language, I assume?

    • @victoriapolyakova6777
      @victoriapolyakova6777 Рік тому +4

      @@finneire1282 at the level of mental language and mind there are neither first nor second languages)))

    • @brianplummy
      @brianplummy Рік тому

      @@victoriapolyakova6777 Victoria, at any level, you are a plank.

    • @finneire1282
      @finneire1282 Рік тому +1

      @@victoriapolyakova6777 OK. So purely because I'm minorly curious (barely tbh, considering the Grand Slam 🇮🇪) , what was the 1st language you learned?

    • @victoriapolyakova6777
      @victoriapolyakova6777 Рік тому +2

      @@finneire1282 I am Russian, which I am very ashamed of

  • @paulscully4742
    @paulscully4742 Рік тому +6

    I fully stand behind the courts on this matter, the school is in full Compliance of the quality act and education acts, I went to a church of Ireland school and my principal was church of Ireland and when I told her I was gay the very words she said the school and I will stand by you and keep you safe from any discrimination or bullying, before the state voted in the Equality act

    • @barrydonoghue722
      @barrydonoghue722 День тому

      That's all well & good. This isn't about you though and it isn't necessarily about your sexuality. I'm not entirely sure how your experience as a gay man relates to this situation. You're gay, that doesn't affect anybody, and for the most part transgender people don't affect anybody else either. The issue in relation to this situation is that Burke received an email from the school principal in which he was told he would have to address a male student using they/them (plural) pronouns. I believe that everybody can identify however they want even if they are quite clearly not the thing they are claiming to be, but the right for that student or any transgender to self identify should never impinge upon another persons rights to a religious belief and the right of that person to use language correctly in the way it has always been used. Why should I start having to address 1 person in the plural pronoun? If somebody wants to identify that way then that's fine, that's their own business and the words that come out of my own mouth are my business, nobody else's, but it's not my responsibility to play along with the delusion of a mentally ill person.

  • @bravojohnny3199
    @bravojohnny3199 Рік тому +7

    Absolute nonsense stemming from this principal.. likewise aided by the judiciary to line their own pockets.

    • @victoriapolyakova6777
      @victoriapolyakova6777 Рік тому +3

      bravo!!!

    • @bravojohnny3199
      @bravojohnny3199 Рік тому

      @@seanmck46 You want me to respond to meme culture now lol... no. Public temperament can change on a wimp granted..but you won’t find allies before action is truthfully taken by the people. Just ask KCB Bank/ and their thugs.

    • @terrygorry
      @terrygorry  Рік тому +2

      They get paid a bonus for finding one way or the other 😳🤔🫢

  • @victoriapolyakova6777
    @victoriapolyakova6777 Рік тому +7

    I give you like, of course, Terry, but I don’t support your civil position, because lawyers must have a keen sense of justice and serve as a bridge and protection between society and such a form of violence as the state and the courts.

    • @brianplummy
      @brianplummy Рік тому

      Victoria, I give you credit for retardation. Lol

    • @Paul5520
      @Paul5520 Рік тому +2

      I don’t think anybody civil minded & rational cares what you think 😂

  • @HH-hd3gs
    @HH-hd3gs Рік тому +9

    Those judges are out to lunch.

  • @DK-xc8vp
    @DK-xc8vp Рік тому +3

    The school is presented as requesting the use 'they' pronouns but then seem to be taking a line against this teacher that requires him to use they pronouns. Which is it? Are they polity requesting use of pronouns or are they as it seems demanding he use these words.

    • @HH-hd3gs
      @HH-hd3gs Рік тому

      ​@@seanmck46 Was he given a choice?

    • @HH-hd3gs
      @HH-hd3gs Рік тому

      ​@seanmck46 The judges are employees too.

    • @DK-xc8vp
      @DK-xc8vp Рік тому +1

      @@seanmck46 Thats not a request but a demand to use these pronouns with the threat against your employment. That is coercive. You are requiring someone to say something they cannot in conscience say. I find your comment worrying.

    • @DK-xc8vp
      @DK-xc8vp Рік тому

      @@HH-hd3gs The video referred to a request from the school to use 'they' pronouns but its not asking, its demanding

    • @DK-xc8vp
      @DK-xc8vp Рік тому

      @@seanmck46 I doubt EB used verbally abusive language like we would usually understand it. He is a devout Christian and would not use cursing and foul language. I would say he spoke bluntly if not very politely which may not be as respectful as it should be, But then we live in a country where we can speak with candour.

  • @paulymarzee8141
    @paulymarzee8141 Рік тому +2

    Thank you for the video. It feels like Burke is desperate for the case to be about his right to not refer to the student by their preferred pronouns. It appears Burke and his supporters decided to ignore what it is actually about and act like they are fighting for religious freedom ( albeit freedom to ignore the students pronoun preference).

    • @jimkeddy7905
      @jimkeddy7905 Рік тому +1

      Yes indeed , he is truly a beacon 🚨 of hope and a eliment of fresh air in this upside down world 🌍 man is creating .

  • @victoriapolyakova6777
    @victoriapolyakova6777 Рік тому +8

    Down with such justice. down with the judge!!!

    • @finneire1282
      @finneire1282 Рік тому +3

      Grow up.

    • @victoriapolyakova6777
      @victoriapolyakova6777 Рік тому +3

      @@seanmck46 Yes, I agree if he calls people to a rally before the court, I will be the first to stand with him and chant freedom of opinion. we have the right to say whatever we want, it is not for them to judge what we should do. let the constitution first remake for this.

    • @victoriapolyakova6777
      @victoriapolyakova6777 Рік тому +2

      @@seanmck46 don't worry about other people's spending

    • @victoriapolyakova6777
      @victoriapolyakova6777 Рік тому

      @@finneire1282 Are you telling me, grandma, son, such things?

    • @finneire1282
      @finneire1282 Рік тому

      @@victoriapolyakova6777 Yes, I am. Grow up. Again, if necessary.
      We don't have the right to say whatever it is we want. That's a foolish notion. What country are you in with such irresponsible legislators?

  • @HH-hd3gs
    @HH-hd3gs Рік тому +6

    Imagine talking about manners when a child could be about to undergo radical, irreversible surgery. Loco parentis?

    • @andrewtongue7084
      @andrewtongue7084 Рік тому +4

      You're making a supposition that has no basis in law, H H. Law deals in facts, not hyperbole.

    • @HH-hd3gs
      @HH-hd3gs Рік тому +3

      ​Didn't the judge say something about the school being in loco parentis? That would include the teachers. So other people do have a responsibility to protect children in their care. I am supporting Enoch's stance.

    • @andrewtongue7084
      @andrewtongue7084 Рік тому +1

      & that is your inalienable right, H H.

    • @janedonald1
      @janedonald1 Рік тому +3

      The other issue to be considered is that this is a co Ed boarding and day school so children are away from parents. What happens if for example a boy identify as a girl and wants to sleep in girls dorm or vice versa....what is school board and teachers to do then??!

    • @andrewtongue7084
      @andrewtongue7084 Рік тому

      That's an excellent point - but it is equally, speculative; the specifics of the child's needs are unknown to us - under Data Protection; if the individual in question is referred to by Pronoun nomenclature, then it should be clarified as to sleeping arrangements (given, of course, that the choice is at variance in any, one case). As far as I understand it, this is not (currently) an issue, Jane.

  • @johnnysmith7923
    @johnnysmith7923 Рік тому +1

    absolute BLATANTLY BIOUS JUDGE SOMEONE SAID A MEMBER OF THE LABOUR PARTY I DONT KNOW BUT ID EXPECT THOSE VEIWS FROM THE LABOUR PARTY MEMBER WE ARE NO LONGER A CHRISTEN COUNTRY WHEN WE TEACH OUR CHILDREN THESE IMORAL IDEAS INSTEAD OF HELPING THROUGH THEIR ADOLESCENT YEARS WITH COMPASSION UNDERSTANDING AND A CLEAR MORAL DIRECTION WHAT HAS IRELAND COME TO GOD HELP US AND OUR KIDS AND GRAND KIDS

  • @LughSummerson
    @LughSummerson Рік тому

    How can transgenderism be against Christian ethos? Isn't Jesus meant to be a non-binary space alien who transitioned to being a human male?
    Anybody can change gender through faith in God, unless the gospels are horseshit.
    And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. (Matt. 17:20 KJV)

    • @DK-xc8vp
      @DK-xc8vp Рік тому +2

      Bizarre comment

    • @frances8137
      @frances8137 Рік тому

      It's a cultural marxism construct that seeks to destroy the Judeo-Christian belief in two genders and make it meaningless. They see the family as an oppressive patriarchal system that needs to be destroyed. It's focus isn't on truth or reality, but ideological destruction by the creation of 100's of nonsense genders that have to be affirmed. Its an infantilised form of narcissistic control, "Say it else you smell". Or in its "adult" version "Say it else you're sacked".
      FYI Jesus agreed with Genesis when he said at Matt 19v4 "Have you not read that their creator made them male and female from the first".
      If you want anyone being able to identify as anything then perhaps you need to work out what is going to happen to girls and womens safe spaces.

    • @LughSummerson
      @LughSummerson Рік тому

      @@DK-xc8vp It's a bizarre mythology.

    • @frances8137
      @frances8137 Рік тому +2

      @@seanmck46 Does it irritate you that I've identified gender ideology as cultural marxist in its axioms? If so make your point as to why this is not accurate instead of the usual boorish put downs. If you think otherwise say so, I'm listening and willing to be told how I'm wrong. Woke is most certainly not ALL cultural marxism. The "latest thing", which is the best definition of woke I can think of, changes week to week and most certainly has ideas that come from both the political left and sometimes the political right. It's driven in my opinion mainly by social media. The deconstruction of the West, its history, its values, the people held as national figures of importance, the native people held as oppressors are almost certainly marxist. Why? Because when statues of Winston Churchill are vandalised by protestors with "racist" scrolled all over it and in contrast Marx's image, who was a very outspoken ant-black racist and antisemitic semite, lies untouched. Even Inspector Clouseau would find this paradox telling.

    • @frances8137
      @frances8137 Рік тому

      @Mike McGrath-Bryan I will look and thank you for your reply.