Great video Curtis. Just a quick question, would I be able to use the UltraSync One to jam TC for the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K Pro, going through the 3.5mm jack? Thanks.
Thanks for this review. I'm need to get familiar with time code and adopt a system for my cameras (SONY FS5 and Panasonic GH5) and Sound Devices MixPre-6 audio recorder. At 08:17 you mention recording time code to an audio track, and doing an audio timecode to file timecode conversion with Resolve. Is this a workflow option in Premiere Pro as well? The cable from the UltraSync One box appears to be a mini BNC to 1/8" TRS audio jack. Are those common or a specialty cable purchased from Timecode Systems? None of my gear supports Genlock (as far as I can tell), but I presume sync will hold for a 30 to 60 minute interview. I do shoot events, like dance and music performances that can run as long as 60 to 90 minutes, and I have seen my gear drift out of sync with each other.
Hi Dave, that does appear to be a fairly uncommon cable and timecode cables are sometimes directional. So you'll probably want to do your research if you decide not to go with the timecode systems cable. Note that timecode does not necessarily hold sync over time. It is essentially the same as a sync point at the start of the video clip, like where a slate claps. If the camera's RTC has a tendency to drift, the audio will still be out of sync on longer takes. I find that most cine cameras will generally still be pretty close at 30 minutes, and most will be within a frame or two by 60 seconds. Not necessarily true of consumer level cameras. Same applies to consumer grade audio recorders.
UltraSync vs Tentacle Sync? I’m using a Zoom F4 and canon DSLR and mirrorless cameras. I also occasionally use my iPhone as a camera but rarely. Any way to use tentacle sync with a GoPro? It’s almost like both have a place. Can you mix both in the same system?
I don't know whether Timecode Systems (now ATOMOS) have updated the GoPro models for the newer GoPro cameras - so I'd check that out first. I personally prefer the Tentacle Sync system but Timecode Systems seems to have a more comprehensive set of products for bigger, more complex productions. I don't usually work those types of productions.
@@curtisjudd thank you. I’m just an enthusiast and leaning towards Tentacle, but they are out of stock so I started looking at other options. The UltraSync Blue seems like it had potential but not enough vendor adoption.
@@curtisjudd Well, as luck has it, B&H had them in stock momentarily and I snagged myself a 2 pack of Tentacles… yay, my first timecode devices are on its way.
Nicely done video. One comment on the GoPro drifting out even though it was TC synced... the big-time editors tend to think of TC as a good starting point. Then they will nudge clips a frame here and there throughout to make sure lip sync is solid. They compensate for camera drift as seen here and also mic distances to talent and other potential issues.
This is an excellent video. I'm going to be recording audio in a Mixpre6 and shoot video on A7Riii. I might just be able to get a mix out and record to the camera directly. But planning to do bunch of handheld gimbal shots, so I rather not deal with too many wires connecting to the camera. What is your most economical suggestion to sync the stuff? Should I just record audio on the Sony and use FCPX to sync audio? Thanks!
Hi, thanks! If this is for paid work and you have deadlines, that's when I find timecode gear like this to be an economical no-brainer - time saved in post quickly offsets the cost of the timecode gear. If you're shooting non-paid work and you don't have tight deadlines, then manually syncing in FCPX is definitely workable.
Thanks for the speedy reply. If I wanted to ensure a reliable and easy post editing. Is there a way to just get by with one of these? Or you need to buy 2? www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1336977-REG/timecode_systems_tcb_ultrasyncone_ultrasync_one_timecode_sync.html
Hi, since the camera and MixPre-6 do not have their own timecode generators, you'll need 2, one for the camera, one for the MixPre. You'll also need the cables (one for each) which you can find here: bhpho.to/2kAJAPm
I'm sorry but that's not great advice in my opinion. The MixPre 6 DOES HAVE a timecode READER, and it will hold frame-accurate timecode for at least a few hours, maybe even a full day. So if your budget is tight you DEFINITELY could get by with only one timecode device, jamming the MixPre first and then feeding a continuous audio signal to your camera. You just have to re-jam your MixPre during lunch breaks. Buying 2 devices would be wasting an important feature on your expensive mixer/recorder IMO, as well as your money ! And while we're on the subject, depending on your setup you could also use HDMI timecode output on the camera, which it has, to send it directly to the MixPre HDMI input, which it also has, and supports timecode in. The answer is NOT always buying more gear ;)
Hi. I love the hi quality of your vids! You said that timecode can drift, but you also said the timecode generators have high quality crystal oscillators giving you a frame or less drift per day, which genlock solves. When you said drift, did you mean the camera's internal clock-based timecode? I can live with a frame lost in 8 hours and so what does genlock really solve?
Hi Nick, yes, the biggest drift usually occurs in cameras, not so much in dedicated timecode generators. Genlock is completely different. In a Genlock configuration, you connect a gunlock generator to all of the recording equipment (and keep it connected throughout the entire recording session). The genlock generator tells each of the recording devices when to capture the next frame or audio samples. So everything stays in sync because they're all using the same main clock.
Hi Curtis, just a quick one - if you're on a single cam shoot, is it possible to jam a DSLR time code directly from a Zoom F8 recorder? using the correct cable? thank you Luke
Hi Luke, you can either tether or use a timecode generator. If you tether, you're just recording audio timecode to the camera's input. Then in post you have to convert the audio timecode to metadata first (using an app like Tentacle Sync Studio, for example). Then you can sync in your NLE video editing app.
We need to pester TCS and Zoom to support integration between the TCS and F series products! Like there is already with the 6 series recorders from Sound Devices.
Curtis I am wondering if the UltraSync could help me. Typically I shoot 2 camera interviews and sync clips using audio. This has been mixed. My wireless mics go into a MixPre-6 that has a line out going into one of the cameras. My thinking is I could start by jamming timecode on the MixPre from the UltraSyn, then plug into the BMPCC4K, set the timecode, and finally set it on the GH5. Would I be correct that the one device could serve all of those recording devices? Or would I need additional units? I think it could definitely save me some time, just not sure if I need additional TC devices.
Hi Gary, there is a dirty secret that most camera manufacturers will not tell you and that is that there are not ANY cameras of which I am aware that have in-build timecode clocks which are accurate enough to ensure perfect sync. As such, every camera will need a timecode generator attached to it through the course of a shoot if you're aiming for that goal of perfect - or very nearly perfect - sync. You can use timecode as a "get me in the ballpark" type of solution by jam syncing the P4K with the UltraSync at the start of the shoot. It won't be anywhere near frame accurate, but it will generally be within a handful of frames (generally 7 or more in my experience.) Then in post you have to align them more precisely. Generally that'll be a manual process. And you'll still probably want to use a slate to ensure you have a clean sync point. I hope that makes sense. Best wishes!
Great tutorial, as usual. My NLE of choice is Premiere Pro. Is there a way to "read" time code that was burned into a camera audio track? Seems like this would be a popular feature, but I haven't been able to find specifics on how it can be done.
Hi Dave, last I checked, only Avid Media Composer and DaVinci Resolve will read audio timecode and convert to meta data timecode. It would be a welcome addition to Premiere Pro and Final Cut Pro X.
@@curtisjudd Could the Tentacle Sync Studio software recognize audio timecode from UltraSync One, and export an XML file that could be imported into Premiere?
@@curtisjudd Thanks for looking into this! I'm kind of surprised that Timecode Systems doesn't have a similar app, as it would probably help sell their hardware offerings.
Hey Curtis I really like this video as I'm considering getting to know more about timecode systems. But do you if you can convert audio timecode from a DSL camera into file timecode on Adobe Audition or ProTools?
Hi Alejandro, no, neither natively convert audio to meta-data timecode. However, Timecode Systems just announced that they have partnered with a company that makes an app that will do that for you. You can find the details at timecodesystems.com.
Dear Curtis. Thanks very much for your videos. I'm learning a lot from them. Please may I ask...? I'm going to record video from my fujifilm X-T3 externally onto an atomos ninja v, and record the audio separately onto a mix-pre 6. How many ultrasync one devices would I need for this set-up? Would I need two or three? Thanks very much!!
The Tentacles do not *yet* have the ability to sync wirelessly and when they do get that feature via firmware update, it will most likely be on-demand vs continuous wireless sync. The Tentacles also do not have the OLED screen that the UltraSync One and :pulse base station has, so you have to connect to the tentacles via mobile app to change their settings. Also, the Tentacles do not have GoPro integration, camera control, or control options for Sound Devices 6xx series mixer/recorders as demonstrated here. On the plus side for the Tentacles, if you're sending timecode in to audio inputs on a DSLR or mirrorless camera, the Tentacles come with a fantastic app that will convert that to metadata timecode which NLEs need to use the timecode. Also, the app (macOS only) does a very nice job syncing hundreds of clips incredibly quickly and provides a lot of flexibility in how you can export the synced clips (as video clips, XML for Premiere, XML for Final Cut Pro X).
Good question. I believe Timecode Systems was purchased by ATOMOS recently. Not sure what they have in store in terms of new products beyond this lineup and the ATOMX box for the Ninja V ATOMOS recorder.
@@curtisjudd I didn't actually know this! Looking into it now... I'm going to wait to see what new products Ultrasync/Atomos brings out in the near future. For now I've ordered a couple of cables to jam sync for my next job. That'll do. Already spent too much on audio gear! :-)
Hi! Another technical question. As far as I understood form one of your other films, I can sync the mastered audio recorded with my... say F8 with the image recorded with my hybrid camera (not equipped with BNC connector, only HDMI) using scratch audio from internal camera's microphone or even fed from F8 (assuming that audio mixed in F8 is not good enough). I guess it might be done based on sonic properities of audio files that are to be synced. How you generally do it? What software include this feature? What are conditions that must be met for that to be feasible and reliable? Do I have to start recording with some kind of slate tone or clapperboard (or its equivalent)? If not neccessary, is it usefull at all?
Hi Pawel, most of the video editing apps will sync audio and video by matching the audio waveform so the video camera needs to capture decent scratch audio. If you need to sync a lot of clips, an app like pluraleyes does the same thing but for a batch of clips all at once. I still recommend using a slate in case the camera doesn’t capture good audio.
Hi Curtis. Can I used the UltraSync One to generate/jam timecode into the Sound Devices MixPre 3? Every video I see uses the :pulse to do it and the UltraSync for the cameras and I never see the UltraSync One being used for the MixPre 3. Thank you.
The ultra sync one looks really good and is something that I consider to eventuelly get for my mixpre. when using the ultrasync one on a dslr, is there a way to also get scratchaudio like with the tentacles?
HI Dustbrigate, I don't believe that the UltraSync One has a microphone so it does not capture scratch audio, unfortunately. Though that does avoid any potential crosstalk issues which can occur when recording timecode and scratch audio on the same 3.5mm connector over an unbalanced cable.
Is the crosstalk a problem for the timecode signal in the sense that the mic signal is bleading so much that it is not possible to get the metadata? The other way around does not matter so much since it is just scratch reference audio for safety.
Good point. I was thinking more about the audio cross-talking into the timecode. Generally apps will only read the first little bit of timecode, so not necessarily an issue if the crosstalk happens later in the recording, but if it happens within the first second, it could muddle things up.
Thanks for your work on all these time code devices, Curtis. Really helpful. I’ve spent a lot of time reading product info to try and understand how they work, but obviously having them is the only way to really figure it out. It’s great that you mention Genlock vs. Time Code, but you might clarify that your camera must have a Genlock input to use that feature. Yes? No way to do that on DSLR or mirrorless cams that don’t have a Genlock input. My other question is about a workflow that uses either these Time Code devices, or Tentacles, or Ambient devices with cameras that don’t have time code input and the post people want to use Sync n Link X into FCPX. According to Phillip Hodgets the Tentacle Studio can’t do batch processing and only creates LTC, and Sync n Link needs sync in the metadata. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks Kent. Correct - gunlock only works on cameras with a genlock input. DSLRs do not generally have genlock inputs. I have not used Sync N Link X so I'm not familiar with its capabilities. But the Tentacle Studio app does do batch conversion of audio TC to metadata TC and will also create a very convenient XML layout of all of the synced footage and sound clips on a timeline for FCPX or Premiere. I'm not entirely sure what Phillip was referring to when he said that the app doesn't do batch processing. In my experience, you can drop as many files as you like into the Tentacle Studio app and it will sync them up. You can then export the XML or batch export all of the files with the TC converted to metadata in one batch.
That's encouraging to hear. As a user, I think you might know better. I'm going by this page: intelligentassistance.com/sync-n-link-x-tentacle-sync.html. Not sure what he means about batch processing. Thanks for the clarification.
I'm still kinda confused when it comes to genlock and timecode. Won't the timecode generator will be controlling timecode of the camera throughout the entire time since it's the one that generates the timecode for the camera throughout the entire day?
Timecode only controls the metadata timestamp at the start of the recording. Genlock essentially takes over the camera's clock and becomes the clock which tells the camera when to capture a frame.
Daft question if one channel is recording timecode, on a stereo camera, does that mean I’ve lost stereo audio recording, and have to make do with a mono channel audio in post? I ask as I also live stream, and someone has asked to also record an event for a post edit, and I’m trying to figure out how they can sync a bunch of camcorders that to my knowledge are not pro enough to have their internal clocks sync’d. Sony HXR-NX3 and NX5Rs, they are adamant they can sync here cameras, but this is news to me. I used to this myself by using recorders and sync with Movie Slate app and use really long recordings and push and pull clips into sync visually on recorded frames recorded from Movie*slate app on my iPhone.
Curtis Judd thanks for that. Shoot went ahead at the weekend, it was immediately apparent the shooter/editor we were providing recorded in camera footage, was wrong, he wasn’t familiar with the cameras as he claimed, there was no straight forward way to jam sync these cameras. I’d rather have dual channel audio.
I have almost bought this, but now that I have had some time to think about this, I have a make-or-break question: I see no mention of security anywhere I read about these. So, if you have several of these devices and someone else in the neighborhood has several of these devices, when the someone else jams his devices, will it affect your devices (and vice versa)? Worse yet, can someone maliciously hijack your devices on purpose?
Hi RustyTube, I don't know all of the details, but the BlinkHub app does require a password, which you set on the :wave or :pulse, to make any changes to settings on any of the devices. You can contact Timecode Systems via email on the "Contact" link at support.timecodesystems.com/hc/en-us They should be able to answer this definitively. Best wishes!
OK, I have not contacted them, but I have downloaded the manual for the UltraSync One and read it. It is clear from it, they have never even considered the need for security, as they are displaying the same naïveté as the creators of the original Internet protocols did (for example, there is nothing in the email protocol to protect the system against spam and other abuses because they expected everyone on the Internet to follow a gentlemanly agreement to behave, and they all did for many years). So, while I would not expect a slew of malicious attacks, such attacks _are_ possible. Not easy, but possible. I am not going into any details here because the last thing I want to do is give somebody any funky ideas. Anyway, the manual says if there are two or more masters on the same network, the slaves will just randomly pick one and stick with it. And their solution is to change the RF channel. If you are the only crew using these devices for a shoot, you should be fine. A potential conflict may arise if a bunch of people are trying to record a major concert and each of them is using the same type of device (especially if there are more of them than the available RF channels). They may be hard to find and coordinate with, especially if they are not supposed to be recording, though I suppose those would likely be amateurs who would have no need for timecode use in the first place, so this scenario may be unlikely. Of course, when talking security, we must always consider the worst case scenario. If Timecode Systems is reading this, I would urge them to upgrade all of their firmware to make it possible to let us choose which master our slave devices should lock into whenever there are several competing masters present. And I hope they don’t think their devices are secure just because they are using a proprietary RF/Blink protocol. The first thing any network security specialist will tell you that security by obscurity is an illusion. Oh, and if they are reading this, then I have something else they need to do: They need to publish more specs on their B&H page. Their specs for the UltraSync One do not even list such basic information as what frames per second the device supports. I would personally never buy a timecode device that does not list those. Their competition does list the frame rates in their specs! (I have found out the frame rates from the manual and have been satisfied, but how many people are going to download the manual just to find out such basic facts about the devices if they are omitted from the specs.) Anyway, despite the above comments, I like what I see here, and will _probably_ end up buying this.
If you mount a mixpre-6 on a red camera (for dual audio). Is it possible to sync the mixpre-6 first and than connect the timecode box to the red cameras time code input (bnc). I wonder since the mixpre dont have an own time code generator. I guess it will not hold timecode unless its hooked up to the external timecode box. Plan b. Can you splitt the signal from the ultrasync one with a y split and go out with the timecode to both the cameras tc in (bnc) and the mixpre-6 tc in (3,5mm).
Hi Joel, because the MixPre-6 does not have an in-built TC gen, you need to keep it connected throughout the shoot. In theory, splitting the output from the Ultrasync One and sending to both would work but I’ve never seen such a cable.
Ultrasync Ones - one for the Zoom, one for the camera. The problem is that it will take up one of the audio inputs on the H4n Pro. So the H4n Pro ins't the best option for a timecode workflow.
Hi Curtis, Thanks for producing this video. It inspired me to order a bunch of Timecode Systems products. My question is pretty basic. How do I sync video from my DSLR that I have timecode in (mic input) from the UltraSync One to my timecoded audio from my SD 688 in Final Cut Pro. I've tried the common steps but no syncing, the compound clip is way out. Any direction would be great. Also, is there a way to confirm that I do indeed have timecode on my video file? Thanks!
Hi Terry, with DSLRs, the timecode is recorded as an audio signal via the microphone input. You can confirm this by playing back the video clip and you will hear an electronic signal that sounds a bit like old-school dial-up modems. (Be sure to turn your volume down before playing back the clip). To sync, you'll first need to convert that audio timecode signal to a metadata timecode stamp in the video file. You can do that with an app you can purchase from Timecode Systems. You can also do it using DaVince resolve. I hope that makes sense and best wishes!
Wait, did I get this right that I can just get 3 UltraSync Ones and I won't need a Pulse to keep camera, audio and slate in synch? That whole thing where you don't (initially) need a Pulse went by a little too fast for me… sorry.
This ecosystem may have evolved since I made this video 5 years ago. ATOMOS bought Timecode Systems and has evolved the product line. I *think you should be able to sync three Ultrasync Ones without a Pulse (which I believe they no longer make). You'll want to confirm with ATOMOS support. Best wishes!
Hey Curtis. Thank you again for this superb instructional and gear nerd video ! Your content is always improving. That's good to see. TO be sure if I understand well, I have one question if you don't mind: are the following statements correct ? When using a TC generator box like the Ultrasync One (no :pulse or :wave base) in a single camera shoot scenario, you jam it to the audio recorder master clock at beginning of the day, then plug it onto the camera TC input and your sync should be fine for the whole shoot day (provided you don't do very long takes, in which case you should use GenLock sync). The previous statement should still usually be correct when using several UltraSync One boxes (no :pulse or :wave base) with multiple cameras. But adding a :pulse or :wave master box ensures that all of the UltraSync One boxes stay in sync at all times because of the wireless communication every second. Thank you for your help Curtis !
Great video, but I can't get over the irony of that in video, about SYNC your camera are NOT in sync. Your lips in last wide shot are not synced to audio xD But anyway, great video, love ya and can't wait to make new thumbnail!
Thanks SatanicJamnic. Background on that: this is the bane of GoPro and other consumer grade cameras. The SyncBac Pro did its job providing an accurate timestamp at the start of the recording. However, the GoPro has drifted a bit by the end of the 28 minute take. A lot of the mistakes were cut out to get this final piece. Not an issue when doing shorter takes and with the wireless control of the GoPros, that becomes a realistic capability. But you bring up a good point for people to understand: long takes can still be problematic on consumer grade cameras. Thanks!
It can be an issue, but in this case they were both set to 23.98 fps. GoPros just simply drift on long takes over 20 minutes. Not uncommon for consumer cams.
Curtis Judd Audio maybe you can do a video about the drift of the Go Pro interal clock. Perhaps do a few different takes of different lengths. 5, 10, 15 min... and so on, to see how much drift one can expect with a Go Pro. For science.
I have 3 of the Ultrasync One's and love them to bits! Such a lifesaver and saving me hours of post work (sync).
👍
No questions, just a thank you for producing another excellent video on some fascinating equipment (that I don't really need, however.)
Thanks Joe.
A lot of great info on timecode related devices and workflow!
👍
Great video Curtis. Just a quick question, would I be able to use the UltraSync One to jam TC for the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K Pro, going through the 3.5mm jack? Thanks.
Thanks for this review. I'm need to get familiar with time code and adopt a system for my cameras (SONY FS5 and Panasonic GH5) and Sound Devices MixPre-6 audio recorder. At 08:17 you mention recording time code to an audio track, and doing an audio timecode to file timecode conversion with Resolve. Is this a workflow option in Premiere Pro as well?
The cable from the UltraSync One box appears to be a mini BNC to 1/8" TRS audio jack. Are those common or a specialty cable purchased from Timecode Systems?
None of my gear supports Genlock (as far as I can tell), but I presume sync will hold for a 30 to 60 minute interview. I do shoot events, like dance and music performances that can run as long as 60 to 90 minutes, and I have seen my gear drift out of sync with each other.
Hi Dave, that does appear to be a fairly uncommon cable and timecode cables are sometimes directional. So you'll probably want to do your research if you decide not to go with the timecode systems cable.
Note that timecode does not necessarily hold sync over time. It is essentially the same as a sync point at the start of the video clip, like where a slate claps. If the camera's RTC has a tendency to drift, the audio will still be out of sync on longer takes. I find that most cine cameras will generally still be pretty close at 30 minutes, and most will be within a frame or two by 60 seconds. Not necessarily true of consumer level cameras. Same applies to consumer grade audio recorders.
UltraSync vs Tentacle Sync? I’m using a Zoom F4 and canon DSLR and mirrorless cameras. I also occasionally use my iPhone as a camera but rarely. Any way to use tentacle sync with a GoPro? It’s almost like both have a place. Can you mix both in the same system?
I don't know whether Timecode Systems (now ATOMOS) have updated the GoPro models for the newer GoPro cameras - so I'd check that out first. I personally prefer the Tentacle Sync system but Timecode Systems seems to have a more comprehensive set of products for bigger, more complex productions. I don't usually work those types of productions.
@@curtisjudd thank you. I’m just an enthusiast and leaning towards Tentacle, but they are out of stock so I started looking at other options. The UltraSync Blue seems like it had potential but not enough vendor adoption.
@@soldermecold7456 Makes sense. You might look at Betso timecode generators. I've heard very good things about them but haven't used them myself, yet.
@@curtisjudd Well, as luck has it, B&H had them in stock momentarily and I snagged myself a 2 pack of Tentacles… yay, my first timecode devices are on its way.
@@soldermecold7456 👍
Nicely done video. One comment on the GoPro drifting out even though it was TC synced... the big-time editors tend to think of TC as a good starting point. Then they will nudge clips a frame here and there throughout to make sure lip sync is solid. They compensate for camera drift as seen here and also mic distances to talent and other potential issues.
Thanks Allen. Time for me to up the editing game! 🙂
Curtis Judd Audio Ha Ha! I didn’t mean you, I was thinking the feature film editors, but sure, amp it up my man!
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Curtis Judd Audio And I should have been more clear that I was referring to Dialog Editors.
This is an excellent video. I'm going to be recording audio in a Mixpre6 and shoot video on A7Riii. I might just be able to get a mix out and record to the camera directly. But planning to do bunch of handheld gimbal shots, so I rather not deal with too many wires connecting to the camera. What is your most economical suggestion to sync the stuff? Should I just record audio on the Sony and use FCPX to sync audio? Thanks!
Hi, thanks! If this is for paid work and you have deadlines, that's when I find timecode gear like this to be an economical no-brainer - time saved in post quickly offsets the cost of the timecode gear. If you're shooting non-paid work and you don't have tight deadlines, then manually syncing in FCPX is definitely workable.
Thanks for the speedy reply. If I wanted to ensure a reliable and easy post editing. Is there a way to just get by with one of these? Or you need to buy 2? www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1336977-REG/timecode_systems_tcb_ultrasyncone_ultrasync_one_timecode_sync.html
Hi, since the camera and MixPre-6 do not have their own timecode generators, you'll need 2, one for the camera, one for the MixPre. You'll also need the cables (one for each) which you can find here: bhpho.to/2kAJAPm
Thank you for taking the time and answering my question!!!
I'm sorry but that's not great advice in my opinion.
The MixPre 6 DOES HAVE a timecode READER, and it will hold frame-accurate timecode for at least a few hours, maybe even a full day. So if your budget is tight you DEFINITELY could get by with only one timecode device, jamming the MixPre first and then feeding a continuous audio signal to your camera.
You just have to re-jam your MixPre during lunch breaks.
Buying 2 devices would be wasting an important feature on your expensive mixer/recorder IMO, as well as your money !
And while we're on the subject, depending on your setup you could also use HDMI timecode output on the camera, which it has, to send it directly to the MixPre HDMI input, which it also has, and supports timecode in.
The answer is NOT always buying more gear ;)
Hi. I love the hi quality of your vids! You said that timecode can drift, but you also said the timecode generators have high quality crystal oscillators giving you a frame or less drift per day, which genlock solves. When you said drift, did you mean the camera's internal clock-based timecode?
I can live with a frame lost in 8 hours and so what does genlock really solve?
Hi Nick, yes, the biggest drift usually occurs in cameras, not so much in dedicated timecode generators. Genlock is completely different. In a Genlock configuration, you connect a gunlock generator to all of the recording equipment (and keep it connected throughout the entire recording session). The genlock generator tells each of the recording devices when to capture the next frame or audio samples. So everything stays in sync because they're all using the same main clock.
Excellent video. Well made and very informative.
Thanks!
Hi Curtis, just a quick one - if you're on a single cam shoot, is it possible to jam a DSLR time code directly from a Zoom F8 recorder? using the correct cable?
thank you
Luke
Hi Luke, you can either tether or use a timecode generator. If you tether, you're just recording audio timecode to the camera's input. Then in post you have to convert the audio timecode to metadata first (using an app like Tentacle Sync Studio, for example). Then you can sync in your NLE video editing app.
We need to pester TCS and Zoom to support integration between the TCS and F series products! Like there is already with the 6 series recorders from Sound Devices.
Good idea, David, looks like you already got the job done! ;-)
haha, yes, but no! Need mooooore voices, everyone ask! :-D
I'll mention it to the Zoom guys as well.
Can't hurt to remind Sound Devices and get them to integrate the Timecode systems gear with MixPre recorders as well! :)
Andrew Hake that would be awesome too! But I strongly suspect that is a feature they'll exclusively reserve for their 6xx series of recorders/mixers
Curtis I am wondering if the UltraSync could help me. Typically I shoot 2 camera interviews and sync clips using audio. This has been mixed. My wireless mics go into a MixPre-6 that has a line out going into one of the cameras. My thinking is I could start by jamming timecode on the MixPre from the UltraSyn, then plug into the BMPCC4K, set the timecode, and finally set it on the GH5. Would I be correct that the one device could serve all of those recording devices? Or would I need additional units? I think it could definitely save me some time, just not sure if I need additional TC devices.
Hi Gary, there is a dirty secret that most camera manufacturers will not tell you and that is that there are not ANY cameras of which I am aware that have in-build timecode clocks which are accurate enough to ensure perfect sync. As such, every camera will need a timecode generator attached to it through the course of a shoot if you're aiming for that goal of perfect - or very nearly perfect - sync.
You can use timecode as a "get me in the ballpark" type of solution by jam syncing the P4K with the UltraSync at the start of the shoot. It won't be anywhere near frame accurate, but it will generally be within a handful of frames (generally 7 or more in my experience.) Then in post you have to align them more precisely. Generally that'll be a manual process. And you'll still probably want to use a slate to ensure you have a clean sync point.
I hope that makes sense. Best wishes!
Hi Curtis my ultrasync one cable is extremely tight once plugged in pulling the collar wouldn’t unlock it is there something wrong?
Yes, sound like a defect.
Great tutorial, as usual. My NLE of choice is Premiere Pro. Is there a way to "read" time code that was burned into a camera audio track? Seems like this would be a popular feature, but I haven't been able to find specifics on how it can be done.
Hi Dave, last I checked, only Avid Media Composer and DaVinci Resolve will read audio timecode and convert to meta data timecode. It would be a welcome addition to Premiere Pro and Final Cut Pro X.
@@curtisjudd Could the Tentacle Sync Studio software recognize audio timecode from UltraSync One, and export an XML file that could be imported into Premiere?
@@davidp158 Yes, confirmed that it works.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for looking into this! I'm kind of surprised that Timecode Systems doesn't have a similar app, as it would probably help sell their hardware offerings.
Hey Curtis I really like this video as I'm considering getting to know more about timecode systems. But do you if you can convert audio timecode from a DSL camera into file timecode on Adobe Audition or ProTools?
Hi Alejandro, no, neither natively convert audio to meta-data timecode. However, Timecode Systems just announced that they have partnered with a company that makes an app that will do that for you. You can find the details at timecodesystems.com.
Where can I get the UltraSync for the Hero 6? Seems it's only available for the Hero 4.
Good question, not sure they still make it. ATOMOS bought Timecode Systems since I made this video. Maybe contact ATOMOS support?
Dear Curtis. Thanks very much for your videos. I'm learning a lot from them. Please may I ask...?
I'm going to record video from my fujifilm X-T3 externally onto an atomos ninja v, and record the audio separately onto a mix-pre 6.
How many ultrasync one devices would I need for this set-up? Would I need two or three? Thanks very much!!
Nick Pavlou hi Nick, you’ll need 2, one for the camera and one for the MixPre.
@@curtisjudd Thank you Curtis. Does the camera therefore send the timecode to the atomos?
@@nickpavlou5023 Yes, if you connect the Ultrasync One to the microphone input of the camera.
Thanks very much Curtis!
These look great, how would they compare and contrast to the Tentacle E Syncs?
The Tentacles do not *yet* have the ability to sync wirelessly and when they do get that feature via firmware update, it will most likely be on-demand vs continuous wireless sync. The Tentacles also do not have the OLED screen that the UltraSync One and :pulse base station has, so you have to connect to the tentacles via mobile app to change their settings. Also, the Tentacles do not have GoPro integration, camera control, or control options for Sound Devices 6xx series mixer/recorders as demonstrated here. On the plus side for the Tentacles, if you're sending timecode in to audio inputs on a DSLR or mirrorless camera, the Tentacles come with a fantastic app that will convert that to metadata timecode which NLEs need to use the timecode. Also, the app (macOS only) does a very nice job syncing hundreds of clips incredibly quickly and provides a lot of flexibility in how you can export the synced clips (as video clips, XML for Premiere, XML for Final Cut Pro X).
I'm wondering if the Pulse is still a good buy in 2020? It's currently half price on the Timecode Systems website!
Good question. I believe Timecode Systems was purchased by ATOMOS recently. Not sure what they have in store in terms of new products beyond this lineup and the ATOMX box for the Ninja V ATOMOS recorder.
I guess to summarize - if you have a particular set of projects where this will be needed, I'd say probably yes.
@@curtisjudd I didn't actually know this! Looking into it now... I'm going to wait to see what new products Ultrasync/Atomos brings out in the near future. For now I've ordered a couple of cables to jam sync for my next job. That'll do. Already spent too much on audio gear! :-)
Hi! Another technical question. As far as I understood form one of your other films, I can sync the mastered audio recorded with my... say F8 with the image recorded with my hybrid camera (not equipped with BNC connector, only HDMI) using scratch audio from internal camera's microphone or even fed from F8 (assuming that audio mixed in F8 is not good enough). I guess it might be done based on sonic properities of audio files that are to be synced. How you generally do it? What software include this feature? What are conditions that must be met for that to be feasible and reliable? Do I have to start recording with some kind of slate tone or clapperboard (or its equivalent)? If not neccessary, is it usefull at all?
Hi Pawel, most of the video editing apps will sync audio and video by matching the audio waveform so the video camera needs to capture decent scratch audio. If you need to sync a lot of clips, an app like pluraleyes does the same thing but for a batch of clips all at once. I still recommend using a slate in case the camera doesn’t capture good audio.
@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions THX :D
Hi Curtis. Can I used the UltraSync One to generate/jam timecode into the Sound Devices MixPre 3? Every video I see uses the :pulse to do it and the UltraSync for the cameras and I never see the UltraSync One being used for the MixPre 3. Thank you.
Hi Danni, yes, the UltraSync One can act as a master clock and feed timecode to the MixPre. Best wishes!
Thank you so much.
The ultra sync one looks really good and is something that I consider to eventuelly get for my mixpre. when using the ultrasync one on a dslr, is there a way to also get scratchaudio like with the tentacles?
HI Dustbrigate, I don't believe that the UltraSync One has a microphone so it does not capture scratch audio, unfortunately. Though that does avoid any potential crosstalk issues which can occur when recording timecode and scratch audio on the same 3.5mm connector over an unbalanced cable.
Is the crosstalk a problem for the timecode signal in the sense that the mic signal is bleading so much that it is not possible to get the metadata? The other way around does not matter so much since it is just scratch reference audio for safety.
Good point. I was thinking more about the audio cross-talking into the timecode. Generally apps will only read the first little bit of timecode, so not necessarily an issue if the crosstalk happens later in the recording, but if it happens within the first second, it could muddle things up.
Thanks for your work on all these time code devices, Curtis. Really helpful. I’ve spent a lot of time reading product info to try and understand how they work, but obviously having them is the only way to really figure it out.
It’s great that you mention Genlock vs. Time Code, but you might clarify that your camera must have a Genlock input to use that feature. Yes? No way to do that on DSLR or mirrorless cams that don’t have a Genlock input.
My other question is about a workflow that uses either these Time Code devices, or Tentacles, or Ambient devices with cameras that don’t have time code input and the post people want to use Sync n Link X into FCPX. According to Phillip Hodgets the Tentacle Studio can’t do batch processing and only creates LTC, and Sync n Link needs sync in the metadata. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks Kent. Correct - gunlock only works on cameras with a genlock input. DSLRs do not generally have genlock inputs.
I have not used Sync N Link X so I'm not familiar with its capabilities. But the Tentacle Studio app does do batch conversion of audio TC to metadata TC and will also create a very convenient XML layout of all of the synced footage and sound clips on a timeline for FCPX or Premiere. I'm not entirely sure what Phillip was referring to when he said that the app doesn't do batch processing. In my experience, you can drop as many files as you like into the Tentacle Studio app and it will sync them up. You can then export the XML or batch export all of the files with the TC converted to metadata in one batch.
That's encouraging to hear. As a user, I think you might know better. I'm going by this page: intelligentassistance.com/sync-n-link-x-tentacle-sync.html. Not sure what he means about batch processing. Thanks for the clarification.
I'm still kinda confused when it comes to genlock and timecode. Won't the timecode generator will be controlling timecode of the camera throughout the entire time since it's the one that generates the timecode for the camera throughout the entire day?
Timecode only controls the metadata timestamp at the start of the recording. Genlock essentially takes over the camera's clock and becomes the clock which tells the camera when to capture a frame.
Daft question if one channel is recording timecode, on a stereo camera, does that mean I’ve lost stereo audio recording, and have to make do with a mono channel audio in post? I ask as I also live stream, and someone has asked to also record an event for a post edit, and I’m trying to figure out how they can sync a bunch of camcorders that to my knowledge are not pro enough to have their internal clocks sync’d. Sony HXR-NX3 and NX5Rs, they are adamant they can sync here cameras, but this is news to me. I used to this myself by using recorders and sync with Movie Slate app and use really long recordings and push and pull clips into sync visually on recorded frames recorded from Movie*slate app on my iPhone.
Yes, if the camera does not have a separate timecode input, you will lose one channel of audio as it will be occupied with the timecode signal.
Curtis Judd thanks for that. Shoot went ahead at the weekend, it was immediately apparent the shooter/editor we were providing recorded in camera footage, was wrong, he wasn’t familiar with the cameras as he claimed, there was no straight forward way to jam sync these cameras. I’d rather have dual channel audio.
Chris Simpson good call. Timecode can be helpful, but overall workflow dictates priorities.
Great video. Thanks, Curtis.
Thanks RustyTube
I have almost bought this, but now that I have had some time to think about this, I have a make-or-break question: I see no mention of security anywhere I read about these. So, if you have several of these devices and someone else in the neighborhood has several of these devices, when the someone else jams his devices, will it affect your devices (and vice versa)? Worse yet, can someone maliciously hijack your devices on purpose?
Hi RustyTube, I don't know all of the details, but the BlinkHub app does require a password, which you set on the :wave or :pulse, to make any changes to settings on any of the devices. You can contact Timecode Systems via email on the "Contact" link at support.timecodesystems.com/hc/en-us
They should be able to answer this definitively.
Best wishes!
OK, thanks, Curtis.
OK, I have not contacted them, but I have downloaded the manual for the UltraSync One and read it. It is clear from it, they have never even considered the need for security, as they are displaying the same naïveté as the creators of the original Internet protocols did (for example, there is nothing in the email protocol to protect the system against spam and other abuses because they expected everyone on the Internet to follow a gentlemanly agreement to behave, and they all did for many years).
So, while I would not expect a slew of malicious attacks, such attacks _are_ possible. Not easy, but possible. I am not going into any details here because the last thing I want to do is give somebody any funky ideas.
Anyway, the manual says if there are two or more masters on the same network, the slaves will just randomly pick one and stick with it. And their solution is to change the RF channel. If you are the only crew using these devices for a shoot, you should be fine. A potential conflict may arise if a bunch of people are trying to record a major concert and each of them is using the same type of device (especially if there are more of them than the available RF channels). They may be hard to find and coordinate with, especially if they are not supposed to be recording, though I suppose those would likely be amateurs who would have no need for timecode use in the first place, so this scenario may be unlikely. Of course, when talking security, we must always consider the worst case scenario.
If Timecode Systems is reading this, I would urge them to upgrade all of their firmware to make it possible to let us choose which master our slave devices should lock into whenever there are several competing masters present. And I hope they don’t think their devices are secure just because they are using a proprietary RF/Blink protocol. The first thing any network security specialist will tell you that security by obscurity is an illusion.
Oh, and if they are reading this, then I have something else they need to do: They need to publish more specs on their B&H page. Their specs for the UltraSync One do not even list such basic information as what frames per second the device supports. I would personally never buy a timecode device that does not list those. Their competition does list the frame rates in their specs! (I have found out the frame rates from the manual and have been satisfied, but how many people are going to download the manual just to find out such basic facts about the devices if they are omitted from the specs.)
Anyway, despite the above comments, I like what I see here, and will _probably_ end up buying this.
If you mount a mixpre-6 on a red camera (for dual audio). Is it possible to sync the mixpre-6 first and than connect the timecode box to the red cameras time code input (bnc). I wonder since the mixpre dont have an own time code generator. I guess it will not hold timecode unless its hooked up to the external timecode box.
Plan b. Can you splitt the signal from the ultrasync one with a y split and go out with the timecode to both the cameras tc in (bnc) and the mixpre-6 tc in (3,5mm).
Hi Joel, because the MixPre-6 does not have an in-built TC gen, you need to keep it connected throughout the shoot. In theory, splitting the output from the Ultrasync One and sending to both would work but I’ve never seen such a cable.
What would be the best option for getting timecode on a Zoom Hn4Pro? My Sony Mirrorless cameras have TC but not the Zoom....
Ultrasync Ones - one for the Zoom, one for the camera. The problem is that it will take up one of the audio inputs on the H4n Pro. So the H4n Pro ins't the best option for a timecode workflow.
Hi Curtis, Thanks for producing this video. It inspired me to order a bunch of Timecode Systems products. My question is pretty basic. How do I sync video from my DSLR that I have timecode in (mic input) from the UltraSync One to my timecoded audio from my SD 688 in Final Cut Pro. I've tried the common steps but no syncing, the compound clip is way out. Any direction would be great. Also, is there a way to confirm that I do indeed have timecode on my video file? Thanks!
Hi Terry, with DSLRs, the timecode is recorded as an audio signal via the microphone input. You can confirm this by playing back the video clip and you will hear an electronic signal that sounds a bit like old-school dial-up modems. (Be sure to turn your volume down before playing back the clip). To sync, you'll first need to convert that audio timecode signal to a metadata timecode stamp in the video file. You can do that with an app you can purchase from Timecode Systems. You can also do it using DaVince resolve. I hope that makes sense and best wishes!
Wait, did I get this right that I can just get 3 UltraSync Ones and I won't need a Pulse to keep camera, audio and slate in synch? That whole thing where you don't (initially) need a Pulse went by a little too fast for me… sorry.
This ecosystem may have evolved since I made this video 5 years ago. ATOMOS bought Timecode Systems and has evolved the product line. I *think you should be able to sync three Ultrasync Ones without a Pulse (which I believe they no longer make). You'll want to confirm with ATOMOS support. Best wishes!
@@curtisjudd Much appreciated, Curtis!
Only problem I had with these in a non pro capacity is interference on ch70 uk wireless when broadcasting timecode. Ch38 fine.
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Hey Curtis. Thank you again for this superb instructional and gear nerd video ! Your content is always improving. That's good to see. TO be sure if I understand well, I have one question if you don't mind: are the following statements correct ?
When using a TC generator box like the Ultrasync One (no :pulse or :wave base) in a single camera shoot scenario, you jam it to the audio recorder master clock at beginning of the day, then plug it onto the camera TC input and your sync should be fine for the whole shoot day (provided you don't do very long takes, in which case you should use GenLock sync).
The previous statement should still usually be correct when using several UltraSync One boxes (no :pulse or :wave base) with multiple cameras. But adding a :pulse or :wave master box ensures that all of the UltraSync One boxes stay in sync at all times because of the wireless communication every second.
Thank you for your help Curtis !
Correct you are! Thanks ronfya!
Nice
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Great video, but I can't get over the irony of that in video, about SYNC your camera are NOT in sync. Your lips in last wide shot are not synced to audio xD
But anyway, great video, love ya and can't wait to make new thumbnail!
Thanks SatanicJamnic. Background on that: this is the bane of GoPro and other consumer grade cameras. The SyncBac Pro did its job providing an accurate timestamp at the start of the recording. However, the GoPro has drifted a bit by the end of the 28 minute take. A lot of the mistakes were cut out to get this final piece. Not an issue when doing shorter takes and with the wireless control of the GoPros, that becomes a realistic capability. But you bring up a good point for people to understand: long takes can still be problematic on consumer grade cameras. Thanks!
Is it possible that, there is a difference between framerates in your cameras? Maybe one is real 30 fps and other is 29,97 fps? Can this be an issue?
It can be an issue, but in this case they were both set to 23.98 fps. GoPros just simply drift on long takes over 20 minutes. Not uncommon for consumer cams.
Curtis Judd Audio maybe you can do a video about the drift of the Go Pro interal clock. Perhaps do a few different takes of different lengths. 5, 10, 15 min... and so on, to see how much drift one can expect with a Go Pro. For science.
That's a fine idea, thanks for that!