the rules committee allegedly begged Wizards not to printed Jeweled Lotus when it was previewed to them four years ago. Wizards printed it anyway. So.... if that story is true, that should tell us everything we need to know about the future of the format
@@anthonydelfino6171 go play tier 1 or tier 2 commander and stop your whining... this is a good thing. you will have your pods with no fast mana and we can have our OP games. some people enjoy playing with and against powerful cards.
I for one welcome the wizards game design team do what’s best for the format and not the corporation paying their checks!/s y’all should go play yugioh to see how Konami does it lol
with or without this RC change i realized that is a good move going forward. i sold my collection and realized the reprints were really starting to hurt the value of my commander collection.
This thought of 'WotC has always had a hand' ignores the times when cards have been banned ahead of time. I feel like there is a very real danger to WotC being more involved or fully in control just from cards like Nadu. How often are they releasing things they'll have to admit on the back end they've never tested? JLK begged them not to release jeweled lotus. There's plenty of reason to be very wary of this new setup. There may be some upsides to this arrangement but I don't know how I'd ever come around on WotC being a net positive. They clearly are pushing their design and playtest teams to the limit already. We should be nervous, especially as the secret lair waterfall continues.
yeah… but just after nadu completely annihalited the deck diversity of the championship by itself… and after that they also explicitly stated that they never tested the current version of the card because there was no time left… we already needed to test the next 6 upcoming sets…
everyone makes mistake, but the RC was just out of touch hence the reaction from the community (disregard the threats), nothing nefarious is going to happen and keeping players and stores happy makes them more money. you have to remember wotc has learned their lesson several times when it comes to printing broken cards and the damage it does to their bottom line and with the exception of dockside these cards were not completely broken like a skullclamp was in affinity standard 😳... oh boy those days were crazy times.. now when they make obvious mistakes they try and correct them immediately. i wonder if skullclamp will be a t4 card? 😀
@@retsiemsuah9243 Exactly. It doesn't matter how good the intentions are of the team on the ground when at best they're strained already and at worst big brother is standing over their shoulder waving shareholder profits over them all.
@@timothyterrenal5909 probably by email. If they got a bunch of spam mail harrassing them and saying unspeakable things, proving it to the doubters isnt the first thing one would do. And also, name dropping those who did is not something i imagine they want to do anyway
@@lapsehc one. No they’re not. They can change and add cards whenever they want but besides that. That’s not the change I’m talking about. I’m talking about bans/ rule changes.
This is definitely a humanity question, how could it not be? As the wealth gap widens in the West, the affordability of magic for a lot of people will get much harder to bear. The game gets more and more expensive, with supremely power-crept cards these past few years, yet folks are poorer and poorer. In my native Canada, the debt to income ratio is so utterly bad that most people are completely financially drowning. Banning these big cards that were going for HUNDREDS of dollars was huge, because it has removed the miasma, where we've allowed horrific predatory gambling skinner boxes to rule us and be normalized. People were raging because they were exposed for their foolishness, and needed to take a look inward, and instead just projected and raged. It's frankly utterly immoral that we spend so much of our capital on cardboard. The world is burning around us, and we pay hundreds of dollars for pieces of cardboard. We're the 'This is fine' meme, and everyone is pissed because they had to wake up and smell the smoke. Magic is just one aspect of this late stage race to the bottom, where our only identity is as consumers of things. It was a fun casual little game 30 years ago, and now its just this monstrosity of crossovers and billion dollar companies, and squeezing the consumer for every dime, and FOMO, and sending Pinkerton agents, and etc. All I can do now is proxy 100%, and just shake my head at how deep even I went, despite never spending more than 20$ for a single card. It's just straight proxying from now on. If anyone at an LGS brings it up or gives me shit, I'll just cite and number of WOTC horror stories, across MTG or DnD alone. I can't really support a company that is this wildly evil and exploitative, it took an escalation like this to get me there, but we shouldn't kid ourselves: this whole thing really highlighted how fucking deluded we are. Half the world is looking at water scarcity, but we're buying loot box card packs and buying four copies of the one ring. It's insane. We are depraved.\ Great video, btw :"D
Seriously this is the most well thought out approach to the whole situation. I know most wont give a shit about the points you listed-- but I wanted to tell you I agree and will also make my attempts to consume less and try to be a kinder person and give a bit more. Its just cardboard and we're people.
I think most people fail to realize, myself included because I wasn't playing during the creation of Jeweled Lotus. EVERYONE didn't even want it. JLK even stated he was shown the teaser, and begged them not to print it. This is just WOTC swooping to take control because the opportunity presented itself. They didn't de-solve the RC. The RC decided their free time was better spent, since people went off the deep end and started personally threatening their members and people encouraging others to harass them in public if seen. Imagine, getting some groceries with your fam and kids and some ass hats comes up screaming about magic. I would of resigned as well, why try and represent people like that. I think the worst is still to come, when WOTC tries to turn Commander into Modern.
People seem to have forgotten. It's kinda eerie how quickly sentiments change when people stupid decide to buy/pull the card all of a sudden it changes their minds.
To me the biggest problem is, wheb you have the monopoly you are the only one to chose. Now wotcy will have their (pick by hand) RC and CAG, as it was when someone doesnt totally agreed with them they will be cut out. Commander was "the" casual format, totally independent, and a corporation wil never will be on the casual side, hasbro will always will being pushin for profit, so yeah i'll give a year before they say X card is unbanned and the little latter be reprinting, or banning some card just to print a replacement. Thinking that wotc care about player base over profit is just naive.
Guys, theres people down here in SC that are angry that the power company isnt moving fast enough restoring power to people after the hurricane. People are absolutely CRAZY theres no reason for people to act like this, or send threats to Anyone!!
One Ring for Modern, that's all I need to say for Wotc and future of EDH. If people really think Wotc won't create more broken cards more than One Ring when Crypt and Jeweled are already banned are either too naive or lie to themselves. And if they really think Wotc will actually ban that card after it hit 200$ mark, I don't know what to say. It's like asking how did anyone know Monkey will eat Banana that already in their hand. And the worst part, in the end, we can shame those people who put death threat as much as we want, but that people won. It's just matter time when they unban those banned card. Set a great really example for this game.
Sadly I knew that it was gonna be a question of "When" rather than "If" about if Wotc would take over commander as a format. Now I just pray that they don't keep printing stupid pushed cards again that end up being super chase cards and are only reprinted really sparingly, just because Wotc can now get away with it. I hate being all doom and gloom about it, but I don't think this is gonna end well. What we want and what Wotc want are different from what shareholders want.
Like it or not WoTC had already created a way to rank powers of decks in MTG Arena and is eluding to a similar tool in development for rule zero for paper-deck ranking. They may be the only group with the man power and money to do so and eliminate bannings on a regular level as they do in competitive formats. I think it is a great solution As long as they share the algorithms determining these ranks and getting real community data fed back to them to adjust the data frequently.
I love the ban list the RC has. The way I explain it to my friends is the ban list is a way to keep players honest at the table. I don't care if you play banned cards, but I want you to actually tell me. Nothing feels worse than supporting my local LGS and one guy claims his deck isn't good but stomps everyone with cards that nobody wanted to play against.
Then don’t play against that person again. The ban list is a joke. The RC was very poor at keeping the list curated well. 8/9 power 9 banned. Cards that were maybe a problem 20 years ago remain banned, but demonic consultation is fine (despite being dumb powerful and restricted in vintage). And then they come out and blindside folks banning stuff by actually trying to curate the format (as your point is). The wild inconsistency and lack of logic and attention to actually making the ban list effective is a big reason this was a terrible and incorrect ban.
@@Morphling92 i don't get why people do not understand that you can stand up from a table if they do not like a deck. it's so strange that they always complain about tryhards, but then play with them xD.
@@Morphling92It IS as easy as that. My friends and I have always played with a competitive mentality, we don't go out of our way to play with newer or super casual players but they want to play with us. We don't have problems and all off the lower tier players that play with us are now better and have better decks. I don't learn shit from winning all the time. Bring the pain. If a player is a winey complainer who wants to play T-ball they are welcome to bring it but we ain't going easy on them and when they lose we will encourage, coach them, tell them what cards suck etc.
Any chance WOTC pushed the RC out? Perhaps these bannings, where WOTC lost huge reprint equity, was the last straw and they initiated a coupe under the disguise of "helping". I think this just greatly increased the odds of these cards being unbanned in the future.
No, not really. I believe Jim of the RC when he says that the controversy, blowback, and harassment was too much for unpaid people to justify taking on. Don’t get me wrong, I get why people are angry, and I’m on the side that doesn’t agree with the banning. But I can see where the RC is coming from by handing the format over to WotC and avoid the idiocy the extreme crowd put out there. I don’t think WotC taking over is good for the format, but that’s where we are after all this.
I didn't own any of these cards but I always saw JLo and Mana Crypt as aspirational purchases for "someday" decks. Originally, I was more in line with the thought that "It's WIzard's game, they should manage it." but I think Jake's idea of having some external forces working as a counterbalance to Wizards would be good. It's certainly interesting. A part of me thinks that after a while, nothing will have fundamentally changed anyway... Anyhow, happy birthday, Joel!
I disagree. I just don't believe that you can simultaneously say the bands were a bad idea. But then when you essentially make a hypothesis about what wizards might unban, you leave out two cards as if you know those other two cards should be banned.
When WotC came out with Collector's Boosters, they made it about money. Magic almost died when Chronicles came out and dumped value of original cards from the first expansions.
This during such a heated end of an election year proly wasnt the best idea either honestly.. People in the US are primed rn......But who would have thought of that. Though I dont condone the threats, that can calm down. Internet will internet, but we should keep it here
I started trading in cards over a certain value for store credit before any of these bans even happened. I'm pretty much sticking to buying precons and proxying singles over a certain amount.
The problem is the RC wasn’t viewed as some independent entity. They had regular meetings with wizards, NDAs, and more. For years. The timing of the bans looks bad, even if truly a coincidence. The RC didn’t have a lot of transparency on how they were selected or how they voted (such as bans must be unanimous, a simple majority, etc). They needed a charter or some guiding document besides some vague philosophy that’s a few paragraphs. They also released a mealy mouthed statement that sol ring is ok but crypt wasn’t. And we know it’s because again wizards said you can’t ban the precon staple. I truly feel if the RC was independent and their vision for a healthy format was to slow fast mana down, sol ring is the top contender. It’s one of what… 7 mana rocks that’s mana positive with 0 downsides or restrictions (the others being black lotus and the 5 Mox). If they weren’t beholden to wizards, it would’ve been banned. And that’s a huge issue with them.
The RC was already mostly irrelevant for my casual play group. WOTC isn't even a factor for us. Everything is rule zero now. We don't play tourneys, nor do we play much in local venues.
This is literally going to be the best thing that's ever happened in commander. People are all going to be allowed to play whatever they want in they're own respectful play brackets and we will finally get before game conversations about the experience we all want. The RC was in waaaaaaaay over they're heads realistically wiArd should have done this since the very beginning but they didn't believe in the commander format as a whole. We will most certainly have happier players in all 4 of these brackets.
Ever since EDH’s inception , no one ever tried to ban Mana Crypt. That’s the one that hurt the most. If it didn’t matter ever since the birth of the format, and I don’t think it’s as game-breaking as the RC apparently thought it was.
I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking maybe the RC was going to leave a bit earlier but wizards of the Coast asked them to stay at least until they were able to take the heat for this ban
they arent worthless though, look at tcg player, mana crypt and Jeweled Lotus already started climbing back up in price a bit, yeah Dockside is like a bit less than half of what it was before but that card is legit broken and needed a ban, a blind person could see that one coming. the two mana rocks are never gonna be like dollar bulk rares, especially the special printing ones
I mean they are now MTG History so that gives it value Also so many people have cut up, burned, etc. their copies of both. Mana Crypt still has Vintage I believe, Jeweled lotus is pretty. People are speculating that WotC will unban them now that they are in control So yeah they do have value still for better or for worse
You all and Brian Kibler have approached this issue in such a reasonable and dare I say adult way. I as a fan of this expensive game really appreciate the intelligent thoughts and discussions being had on his channel. Keep up the great work
In terms of magic as an investment you should not expect profit but it is not unreasonable to expect to be able to get a good portion of your money back if you decide to sell out of the game
Sure, but you also shouldn't park money on cards that can be reprinted into oblivion on a whim if you can't afford the loss. The sort of decks that these were in are loaded with pricey cardboard, the deck owners will still make a profit when they eventually sell off the cards.
People said going back was worse, and that was frankly completely illogical. Undoing a mistake is not worse than a mistake. Having your cards lose their value and playability overnight-when they are not broken and other similar cards are legal in the format-is really bad. People who tore up their cards, put them in blenders, sold cards for almost nothing, because they crashed for one week, that’s their mistake. Mana crypt and Jeweled Lotus should be playable in Competitive and High Powered Commander, and now players have their cards back to play with or sell out for good value.
Magic Historian said he'd be surprised if any cards are ever banned again, no matter how busted. I read an unrelated comment from someone saying they expect WotC to channel their inner Konami and release intentionally broken cards only to ban them six months after release. I lean towards the latter, but I believe one of these two predictions represent the future of commander. Happy birthday Joel!
wasn't it confirmed that the RC blindsided everyone, especially the CAG, like what's the point of having a CAG when you dont even consult them for decisions
1. They did ask them about these cards previously and it was quite consistent that they needed to go at some point. 2. JLK pretty much admitted on the video that if the RC had told the CAG ahead of time he would have dumped his copies before the announcement.
@@PhysicsGamer that just means that they didnt trust the CAG in the first place, the professor even confirmed it, as a long time friend of many CAG members, none of them were informed of any bannings, they were blindsided like the rest of us, also confirmed in the FAQ they released And JLK also said that their act of not informing the CAG of any moves, even hints of any moves, just goes to show, they didn't trust their own advisory group. They should just call them the Commander They're just There group instead, why have an advisory group
Im a casual player, but I also have a group of friends that I play with from time to time. I enjoy playing decks of a wide range of power. When I play at a card shop it is the twenty minute turn decks that I do not like. If people play decks like that or if they crush everyone because they misrepresent the power of their deck, then I can choose to not play with them. There are people who I see regularly at my lgs that I will not play with for these reasons. I did play at a shop on Saturday and 2 of the guys I played with did not know any of this happened and they had banned cards in some of their decks. We let them play with the cards and all was well.
10:55 Not certain if this was recorded before or after Jim put out his statement about the change, but you really make it sound like wotc booted the RC. Jim reached out. The RC reached out. I agree, wotc wanted to control commander. And I am sure that wizards are VERY happy they got this "opportunity" to step in. But this wasn't a hostile takeover; this was a group of people feeling helpless and reaching out to a company that can actually do something for help.
I’m so disappointed the RC didn’t just step down and replace themselves…I understand they did not want the abuse…but they didn’t need to hand us to wizards…feels like a betrayal
Wizards taking over makes me confident the next lutri isn’t instant banned and is left in the format to sell product to then be banned at a later date. That’s why this bad.
I completely agree with the Jeweled lotus unban due to commander only. And it makes 1 color, not multiple colors (unless im misremembering). I dont own one but have wanted to. And honestly, I wouldnt hate a sol ring ban. But I know theyve made wayyyyy too many variants to really back off on that
In the past when 2xm came out and when mystery booster 1 came out the card had a significant dip to around $60 and we said, “if you need one, now would be a good time.” Based on current prices, it still would be.
What worries me most isnt bans, its power creep. More auto includes, super staples and strict upgrades. I've onky been playing since Khaldheim and im TIRED.
If they truly want to support the community, why not propose a list of banned cards and have the players vote yes or no on whether to ban them or not. Not only will this give people a heads up that this card could be potentially banned but it also gives the power back to the community.
"WotC won't fleece people because they know it will annoy them." I don't think they could care less, they're in the business of seeing how far they can push things before they pivot their angle. I don't understand why you don't think they'd do the same with their banlists, or even now being more likely to power creep things intentionally then banning after releasing things more frequently.
IMO there shouldn't be a safety net for anything. The cards that should hold the most value are the ones that are for competitive play, old ass cards, scarce promos, unique foils, and serialized cards. Everything else should be subject to a reprint and should be. Like every year WoTC needs to have a set release that is just for reprints like Konami's 2020 tins. $20 bucks includes packs and gives you great reprints maybe with different art or something that sets that one apart from the cards.
At 20 minutes you talk about wotc wanting to push out cards to make room for new ones. I don't know if this will happen. The cynic in me finds it very plausible. 6 infinity stones, 1 for each color and one colorless. I could see the infinity stones being new mana rocks. Longterm, I think wizards will want a home to exist for these banned cards. To me that means bracket 4 will have less bans or they will create a "vintage commander" format.
i do not think that the infinity stones will be mana rocks. Would not make sense for the flavour. It will be a have all on the board kind of effect and every single one of them does theyr own specific thing.
may have traded in my dockside into my LGS for store credit a bit too soon but at the same time i played the deck it was in and i still won cause of the worldgorger/animate dead combo (deck is Anje falkenrath) so if dockside comes back ohwell, hopefully my LGS can make some money from it. Happy Birthday Joel! Edit: with the store credit from dockside and some other cards i had in my folder i managed to get upgrades for my new aminatou deck like new land upgrades
The doom and gloom isn't because we think a Thanos Snap is about to happen, it's going to be a long and drawn out decline over time. Designing for commander was already negatively impacting pretty much every format INCLUDING commander, and now the check and balance to their monopoly is gone.
i truly hope they just make 3 or 4 separate ban lists and have no exceptions to the bans unless you are playing kitchen table or with your friends. its like t1 , these are banned , t2 everything from t1 plus these cards and so forth.
I do pick up games since my friends live far away, I have a mana crypt that a friend got me, now I can't use it for any format except vintage (restricted) which I don't, and won't play. Less bans.
The biggest issue is the potential of 'insider trading'. The outrage stems from an emotional/sensitive base that wotc/rc coddled. Mtg celebrities and youtube channels never boycotted / held wotcs feet to fire. The grift is too good.
I’ve repeatedly said wizards was in complete control here, even before this week. They weren’t not going to be in tight control of their largest profit center. This is just removing the thin veil that there was some “independent” body regulating this.
RC having a hard time making a good decision. Now they won’t get the opportunity to make another one. They hit us with the mini-Madoff and then hand over the keys to WotC. The current RC never needed to be in charge, but WotC shouldn’t be in running commander either. Can I cast reanimate on Sheldon?
See, I’m optimistic because this reminds me of when pauper got taken under Gavin Verity’s care and it’s become a much more cared for format. It was very weird anomaly for an outside group of only five people to run a game company’s top selling game format. It should’ve always been with game designers, and, yes, people concerned about the collectibility.
Pauper isn't close to being the cash cow that EDH is though. It is just harder for WotC to monetize. I think a better comparison would be modern. WotC will print chase cards and effectively force rotation.
Wizards of the Coast has ran the competitive formats into the ground, not from over-regulation, but from neglect. Modern, pioneer, and legacy, have all had a drop in players due to a lack of banning problematic cards. If they handle commander the same way, I think it will likely lead to a format similar to when the rules committee was sitting one its hands with banning being small and infrequent.
modern is more popular now than it has been in many years, dont know where you are getting your numbers. commander has just taken so much of the real estate and rightfully so, standard and pioneer just dont have the variety that modern and commander have and get boring, why invest time and money into those formats when commander and modern exist...
The idiots on the rules committee should have seen this coming- you don't hurt peoples investment and expect them to take it lying down. If they didn't resign they would have been kicked out sooner or later.
If WotC wants to open the floodgates of power creep in Commander, let them. I'll still play what appeals to me and I can opt out of their crazy stuff. Edit: odds are though, they'll come out with a tiered system for staples of cards and have a power system for people to better determine power levels while they're out and about.
Incredibly disappointing to see a community organization absorbed by a corporation, especially at the impetus of mass harassment But I guess the community got what it deserved after threatening anyone on the RC / CAG.Specially guys like you two that were crying and venting rage against them. But congratulations, you all got what you wanted. I mean, you two said that the bans were worst than magic 30. It's not like wotc has been destroying the game for the last years right? Everything will be so much better know that the game is in their hands...hurrah!
So J&J arnt allowed to have their opinion? They never said anyone should harass or go after anyone, in fact they said the exact opposite. You sound really salty for some reason.
RC and CAG never had real power, they said hated jeweled lotus since day 1, and took them 4 years to ban it, if they really could, it would be banned year 1. Or they really dont have too much power or they are super slow and kind bad at it.
Why would the CAG go away? The milk is still being delivered, it's just being delivered by Amazon instead of the milkman. Wizards already hires a CAG equivalent to advise on Modern and other formats, they'll continue to engage with CAG/RC. It's their 'community outreach'.
This gives me a glimmer of hope, because I haven't played a commander game in over a decade now, and the reason is the community. When commander became the most popular format, we got a bunch of enforced conformity that wasn't there before, and a bunch of Modern players coming in and trying to turn the format into Modern, and that ruined it for me. Now with the RC gone, I'm hoping a lot of those players will leave and I can find a game I can enjoy again. Take your power creep and your play-the-way-everyone-else-plays attitude and get out of my format!
I think WOTC will get rid of the RL in commander. That basically removes it from people’s mind and those cards can be collector pieces. I think that’ll be the biggest impact from WOTC.
This is a worse outcome for all involved. When Wizards gets involved, things go south. I, for one, agreed with the bans, and in fact want _far more_ bans. Magic is increasingly become Yu-Gi-Oh! and I don't want to play the speed game that entails.
@@DavidFast71not yet… they need to print a gazillion sets per year for more profits and nobody buys all those sets when they don‘t contain strong cards. This leads to massive powercreep which you already can see. It‘s common to win turn 2 in standard with aggro variants and it‘s really hard to deal with for nearly any other deck… it feels as fast as modern… so… give them some years and it just will get worse and worse
this is commander you are talking about not a competitive format.. you can use cards from the entire history of the game. i dont see how you could have this view when you will now have a specified tier of game play, hopefully a complete separate ban list with no sol rings or any fast mana similar to the ban list for dual commander that you can now sit down at a random table and play with strangers at an fnm with. its a win win.... check out the dual commander ban list , this is what i am assuming t1 or t2 pods are going to be like.
@lapsehc Not a competitive format? I mean CEDH is a thing, but even outside of that it gets stupid very quickly. I don't know about your game groups, but mine are sweaty as hell. Everyone runs those exact cards in all of their decks. It's to the point now that every deck is just a slight variation on an engine. In my immediate friend group we do have some ground rules (no tutors and we limit fast mana beyond Sol Ring), but if we play at our LGS it's just a freak show (in more ways than one). Magic players (hell, all tcg players) are no different than Gatcha gamers. If they can obtain advantage by spending more money than you, they will do it, and the policies and practices of WotC and investment dorks make playing the game an increasingly negative experience for anyone without an exorbitant amount of disposable income. Yeah, you can print proxies, but to me that feels lame and creates an environment of "The wealthy can have the real thing, you poors can use printer paper". Not a fan of the precedent this is setting.
Papa Hasbro: what do you mean you banned an expensive card and they hate you. Why did you delete the battleship out of the monopoly game…. Hasbro corp suits likely forced them out. How were 5 volunteers allowed to effect a million dollar corporation profit line. They have a fiduciary responsibility and they definitely messed that up. Add the security and legal issues that can lead to and there’s no way the RC can continue. And yes, criticism of a choice is ok. Personal attacks, doxxing, and other malicious activity is not.
Cardboard Finance is a thing though, collectables are big business at this point - players wishing it didn't exist are blowing in the wind + not understanding the financial aspect is part of what drives the mtg ecosystem.
I feel like these kinds of videos and there's been a ton since the whole situation started is just digging ourselves deeper in a hole. It is apparent people cant handle the situation properly, the more we touch it the worse it gets.
just use the 'point system' for deck building like they do in canadian highlander. Each card is allotted a point value and you have (x) amount of points to build a deck.
It’s odd how many people said buying cardboard is a waste of money while also calling Ubisoft evil for saying customers don’t own the games they buy from them. Mana Crypt wasn’t a financial investment for everyone, for a lot of players it was essentially buying DLC for a game that just shut down servers.
I can't think of anything I disagree with on what you said. It's interesting to think though that there's a MTG stock tracker and that cardboard is thick paper and our money is paper and people have been saying for years that Wotc is effectively printing money while (*wink) completely unaware of the secondary market. I'm sure there are shop owners or collectors who have lost tens of thousands. I personally wouldn't be at all surprise if the people who made treats are NOT the people who lost the most money. Probably lunatics who had one copy of a card and came unhinged on their 100$ loss.
Its baffles me how ubiquitous the RC’s stance’s were amongst the community, people treat their lists like commandments. They are just a group of players in a room telling another group of players in a different room what is and isnt ok and most people just nod their head. That being said - WotC has too much skin in the game to effectively monitor the format themselves…
From what I saw it was the threats that led the RC to become part of wotc which I think is less preferable than them remaining independent I trust them to manage the format better
No one ever wins through the use of violence and no one ever wins by using threats of violence. That’s a huge loss for the people who resorted to either of those pitiful tactics. I personally have principles that don’t get thrown away because I lost money. I’d rather be homeless than give in to such weakness
Thing is...can't not have it being an investment if cards cost 100s of dollars though. Magic puts itself forwards as a game with game pieces worth money, and sometimes...a lot of money. You can't fuck with that.
The RC said they wouldn’t walk back the banned cards, with WotC in charge now do you think they will walk back the banns? I hope not, at this point it will cause more problems
We can’t escape that the RC acted badly. They wanted these cards banned, not Wizards or most frequent commander players. They gave Wizards a year to unload its stock and packs unquestionably and then screwed over players the second Wizards was out of these cards!
I just realised something. I consumed a lot of MTG content, before this banning events I was quite 'not entertained'. Now it's like raining candies. I listened to a lot of podcasts and it's very sweetened my days. 😂 Guess i love dramas.
I don't express i play vojo with infinite mana combos with every hated card listed in why mana crypt and jlo had to go along with Land destruction. With my main win condition is commander damage via vojo. Turn two infinite mana or turn three with vojo out
ask yourselves this: would wotc have banned lutri before release?
we all know the answer to that.
I am ok with that.
the rules committee allegedly begged Wizards not to printed Jeweled Lotus when it was previewed to them four years ago. Wizards printed it anyway.
So.... if that story is true, that should tell us everything we need to know about the future of the format
@@anthonydelfino6171 go play tier 1 or tier 2 commander and stop your whining... this is a good thing. you will have your pods with no fast mana and we can have our OP games. some people enjoy playing with and against powerful cards.
yeah they would've because i believe the CAG was a major reason for the preban occurring not the RC.
I for one welcome the wizards game design team do what’s best for the format and not the corporation paying their checks!/s y’all should go play yugioh to see how Konami does it lol
Not buying high end cards anymore. Resorting to proxy only
Can some people just stop to support Hasbro? Try to move on.
with or without this RC change i realized that is a good move going forward. i sold my collection and realized the reprints were really starting to hurt the value of my commander collection.
Best way to play magic is using proxy’s w your friends
we as a community need to make this more of a thing
@@tgood2271made 10 proxy decks. We all just play those
This thought of 'WotC has always had a hand' ignores the times when cards have been banned ahead of time. I feel like there is a very real danger to WotC being more involved or fully in control just from cards like Nadu. How often are they releasing things they'll have to admit on the back end they've never tested? JLK begged them not to release jeweled lotus. There's plenty of reason to be very wary of this new setup.
There may be some upsides to this arrangement but I don't know how I'd ever come around on WotC being a net positive. They clearly are pushing their design and playtest teams to the limit already.
We should be nervous, especially as the secret lair waterfall continues.
I mean, to be fair, wizards banned Nadu before the RC did in the format the set was released for.
yeah… but just after nadu completely annihalited the deck diversity of the championship by itself…
and after that they also explicitly stated that they never tested the current version of the card because there was no time left… we already needed to test the next 6 upcoming sets…
everyone makes mistake, but the RC was just out of touch hence the reaction from the community (disregard the threats), nothing nefarious is going to happen and keeping players and stores happy makes them more money. you have to remember wotc has learned their lesson several times when it comes to printing broken cards and the damage it does to their bottom line and with the exception of dockside these cards were not completely broken like a skullclamp was in affinity standard 😳... oh boy those days were crazy times.. now when they make obvious mistakes they try and correct them immediately. i wonder if skullclamp will be a t4 card? 😀
@@retsiemsuah9243 Exactly. It doesn't matter how good the intentions are of the team on the ground when at best they're strained already and at worst big brother is standing over their shoulder waving shareholder profits over them all.
WotC knew about the bans and let the RC take the L in the hopes this would happen.
It was the death threats
@@21Kikoshi still yet to see receipts of those alleged death threats.
@@timothyterrenal5909exactly. not saying it didn’t happen but i haven’t seen any proof of this claim
@@timothyterrenal5909 what do you mean? You do realise it gets removed right? It doesn't stay long so that people can see it and join in
@@timothyterrenal5909 probably by email. If they got a bunch of spam mail harrassing them and saying unspeakable things, proving it to the doubters isnt the first thing one would do. And also, name dropping those who did is not something i imagine they want to do anyway
I bet the biggest thing is commander will have to be played with real official wotc cards
Likely
Had not considered this angle.
only if its a wpn store
That's fine. I can't afford proxies anyway.
@@BatesyBoiit costs some.printer paper, a cheap non clear sleeve and a basic land.
I'm beginning to expect this was WotC's whole plan in the first place.
Actual brain rot take.
One year from now. We will see the impact. Rn we can’t initially see anything. This will be a big change years from now.
all the sets coming out in the next year are already set in stone...
@@lapsehc one. No they’re not. They can change and add cards whenever they want but besides that. That’s not the change I’m talking about. I’m talking about bans/ rule changes.
This is definitely a humanity question, how could it not be? As the wealth gap widens in the West, the affordability of magic for a lot of people will get much harder to bear. The game gets more and more expensive, with supremely power-crept cards these past few years, yet folks are poorer and poorer. In my native Canada, the debt to income ratio is so utterly bad that most people are completely financially drowning. Banning these big cards that were going for HUNDREDS of dollars was huge, because it has removed the miasma, where we've allowed horrific predatory gambling skinner boxes to rule us and be normalized. People were raging because they were exposed for their foolishness, and needed to take a look inward, and instead just projected and raged. It's frankly utterly immoral that we spend so much of our capital on cardboard.
The world is burning around us, and we pay hundreds of dollars for pieces of cardboard. We're the 'This is fine' meme, and everyone is pissed because they had to wake up and smell the smoke. Magic is just one aspect of this late stage race to the bottom, where our only identity is as consumers of things. It was a fun casual little game 30 years ago, and now its just this monstrosity of crossovers and billion dollar companies, and squeezing the consumer for every dime, and FOMO, and sending Pinkerton agents, and etc.
All I can do now is proxy 100%, and just shake my head at how deep even I went, despite never spending more than 20$ for a single card. It's just straight proxying from now on. If anyone at an LGS brings it up or gives me shit, I'll just cite and number of WOTC horror stories, across MTG or DnD alone. I can't really support a company that is this wildly evil and exploitative, it took an escalation like this to get me there, but we shouldn't kid ourselves: this whole thing really highlighted how fucking deluded we are. Half the world is looking at water scarcity, but we're buying loot box card packs and buying four copies of the one ring. It's insane. We are depraved.\
Great video, btw :"D
Seriously this is the most well thought out approach to the whole situation. I know most wont give a shit about the points you listed-- but I wanted to tell you I agree and will also make my attempts to consume less and try to be a kinder person and give a bit more. Its just cardboard and we're people.
I think most people fail to realize, myself included because I wasn't playing during the creation of Jeweled Lotus. EVERYONE didn't even want it. JLK even stated he was shown the teaser, and begged them not to print it. This is just WOTC swooping to take control because the opportunity presented itself. They didn't de-solve the RC. The RC decided their free time was better spent, since people went off the deep end and started personally threatening their members and people encouraging others to harass them in public if seen. Imagine, getting some groceries with your fam and kids and some ass hats comes up screaming about magic. I would of resigned as well, why try and represent people like that. I think the worst is still to come, when WOTC tries to turn Commander into Modern.
People seem to have forgotten. It's kinda eerie how quickly sentiments change when people stupid decide to buy/pull the card all of a sudden it changes their minds.
To me the biggest problem is, wheb you have the monopoly you are the only one to chose. Now wotcy will have their (pick by hand) RC and CAG, as it was when someone doesnt totally agreed with them they will be cut out. Commander was "the" casual format, totally independent, and a corporation wil never will be on the casual side, hasbro will always will being pushin for profit, so yeah i'll give a year before they say X card is unbanned and the little latter be reprinting, or banning some card just to print a replacement. Thinking that wotc care about player base over profit is just naive.
I would like to say thank you to all the giant baby-men that had temper tantrums that made all this fun happen......
Guys, theres people down here in SC that are angry that the power company isnt moving fast enough restoring power to people after the hurricane. People are absolutely CRAZY theres no reason for people to act like this, or send threats to Anyone!!
One Ring for Modern, that's all I need to say for Wotc and future of EDH.
If people really think Wotc won't create more broken cards more than One Ring when Crypt and Jeweled are already banned are either too naive or lie to themselves.
And if they really think Wotc will actually ban that card after it hit 200$ mark, I don't know what to say.
It's like asking how did anyone know Monkey will eat Banana that already in their hand.
And the worst part, in the end, we can shame those people who put death threat as much as we want, but that people won.
It's just matter time when they unban those banned card. Set a great really example for this game.
Sadly I knew that it was gonna be a question of "When" rather than "If" about if Wotc would take over commander as a format.
Now I just pray that they don't keep printing stupid pushed cards again that end up being super chase cards and are only reprinted really sparingly, just because Wotc can now get away with it. I hate being all doom and gloom about it, but I don't think this is gonna end well. What we want and what Wotc want are different from what shareholders want.
They already did take over the Format like years agao 😂😂😂.
Thats not new.
We litarally have Commander sets for years now...
Wizards has destroyed every format they've managed
How many thousands of people are playing Standard right now on Arena ?
Heheh tard
@@bobthor9647 about half of the people that were there last year
@@bobthor9647 used to be millions all over the world every Friday night at our LGS's.
@@Zavult hilariously at my lgs people call out when they get a promo pack and give code to first person who asks for it
Happy birthday Joel !!!!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Like it or not WoTC had already created a way to rank powers of decks in MTG Arena and is eluding to a similar tool in development for rule zero for paper-deck ranking. They may be the only group with the man power and money to do so and eliminate bannings on a regular level as they do in competitive formats. I think it is a great solution As long as they share the algorithms determining these ranks and getting real community data fed back to them to adjust the data frequently.
Good. The Magic community deserves this for how they reacted to the ban. FAFO.
I love the ban list the RC has. The way I explain it to my friends is the ban list is a way to keep players honest at the table. I don't care if you play banned cards, but I want you to actually tell me. Nothing feels worse than supporting my local LGS and one guy claims his deck isn't good but stomps everyone with cards that nobody wanted to play against.
Then don’t play against that person again.
The ban list is a joke. The RC was very poor at keeping the list curated well. 8/9 power 9 banned.
Cards that were maybe a problem 20 years ago remain banned, but demonic consultation is fine (despite being dumb powerful and restricted in vintage).
And then they come out and blindside folks banning stuff by actually trying to curate the format (as your point is).
The wild inconsistency and lack of logic and attention to actually making the ban list effective is a big reason this was a terrible and incorrect ban.
@@Morphling92 i don't get why people do not understand that you can stand up from a table if they do not like a deck.
it's so strange that they always complain about tryhards, but then play with them xD.
@@Morphling92It IS as easy as that. My friends and I have always played with a competitive mentality, we don't go out of our way to play with newer or super casual players but they want to play with us. We don't have problems and all off the lower tier players that play with us are now better and have better decks. I don't learn shit from winning all the time. Bring the pain. If a player is a winey complainer who wants to play T-ball they are welcome to bring it but we ain't going easy on them and when they lose we will encourage, coach them, tell them what cards suck etc.
never commented on a vid of yalls before, so here's my first: HAPPY BIRTHDAY JOEL.
Any chance WOTC pushed the RC out? Perhaps these bannings, where WOTC lost huge reprint equity, was the last straw and they initiated a coupe under the disguise of "helping". I think this just greatly increased the odds of these cards being unbanned in the future.
I see it that way as well.
It was the death threats. And the RC asked wizards to take over because of their safety.
I can't even imagine how people who sold their cards at a huge loss would feel with an unban. Probably the same as when the ban was announced.
No, not really. I believe Jim of the RC when he says that the controversy, blowback, and harassment was too much for unpaid people to justify taking on. Don’t get me wrong, I get why people are angry, and I’m on the side that doesn’t agree with the banning. But I can see where the RC is coming from by handing the format over to WotC and avoid the idiocy the extreme crowd put out there. I don’t think WotC taking over is good for the format, but that’s where we are after all this.
@@Aldrnari956 they just taking over "public* management but still will work with community members to try negate the death threats.
I didn't own any of these cards but I always saw JLo and Mana Crypt as aspirational purchases for "someday" decks. Originally, I was more in line with the thought that "It's WIzard's game, they should manage it." but I think Jake's idea of having some external forces working as a counterbalance to Wizards would be good. It's certainly interesting. A part of me thinks that after a while, nothing will have fundamentally changed anyway...
Anyhow, happy birthday, Joel!
I disagree. I just don't believe that you can simultaneously say the bands were a bad idea. But then when you essentially make a hypothesis about what wizards might unban, you leave out two cards as if you know those other two cards should be banned.
When WotC came out with Collector's Boosters, they made it about money. Magic almost died when Chronicles came out and dumped value of original cards from the first expansions.
I agree it cost a lot for collectors boosters
Magic died when Chronicles?? Where the fuck have you been? Pouring more money into the game? When Magic has grown to millions of players? GTFO
collector's boosters lowered the price on normal copies of the cards for 99% of players, so please explain how targeting whales is bad for the game?
The announcement seemed tailor-made to antagonize almost everyone. They even went so far as to point out their own logical inconsistency.
This during such a heated end of an election year proly wasnt the best idea either honestly.. People in the US are primed rn......But who would have thought of that. Though I dont condone the threats, that can calm down. Internet will internet, but we should keep it here
I started trading in cards over a certain value for store credit before any of these bans even happened. I'm pretty much sticking to buying precons and proxying singles over a certain amount.
The problem is the RC wasn’t viewed as some independent entity. They had regular meetings with wizards, NDAs, and more. For years. The timing of the bans looks bad, even if truly a coincidence.
The RC didn’t have a lot of transparency on how they were selected or how they voted (such as bans must be unanimous, a simple majority, etc). They needed a charter or some guiding document besides some vague philosophy that’s a few paragraphs.
They also released a mealy mouthed statement that sol ring is ok but crypt wasn’t. And we know it’s because again wizards said you can’t ban the precon staple.
I truly feel if the RC was independent and their vision for a healthy format was to slow fast mana down, sol ring is the top contender. It’s one of what… 7 mana rocks that’s mana positive with 0 downsides or restrictions (the others being black lotus and the 5 Mox). If they weren’t beholden to wizards, it would’ve been banned. And that’s a huge issue with them.
Multiple members were former employees at WotC its not like they were born I the wild of the player base
Funnily enough after this RC announcement the prices for all the banned cards are rebounding back to what they were! What a world we live in
The RC was already mostly irrelevant for my casual play group. WOTC isn't even a factor for us. Everything is rule zero now. We don't play tourneys, nor do we play much in local venues.
This is literally going to be the best thing that's ever happened in commander. People are all going to be allowed to play whatever they want in they're own respectful play brackets and we will finally get before game conversations about the experience we all want. The RC was in waaaaaaaay over they're heads realistically wiArd should have done this since the very beginning but they didn't believe in the commander format as a whole. We will most certainly have happier players in all 4 of these brackets.
my last modern buy was a play set of jeweled lotuses. No big deal, i never planned to sell them anyway.
21:03 so what I'm hearing is THIS IS YOUR FAULT. Worst birthday present ever!
Ever since EDH’s inception , no one ever tried to ban Mana Crypt. That’s the one that hurt the most. If it didn’t matter ever since the birth of the format, and I don’t think it’s as game-breaking as the RC apparently thought it was.
I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking maybe the RC was going to leave a bit earlier but wizards of the Coast asked them to stay at least until they were able to take the heat for this ban
they arent worthless though, look at tcg player, mana crypt and Jeweled Lotus already started climbing back up in price a bit, yeah Dockside is like a bit less than half of what it was before but that card is legit broken and needed a ban, a blind person could see that one coming. the two mana rocks are never gonna be like dollar bulk rares, especially the special printing ones
I mean they are now MTG History so that gives it value
Also so many people have cut up, burned, etc. their copies of both.
Mana Crypt still has Vintage I believe, Jeweled lotus is pretty.
People are speculating that WotC will unban them now that they are in control
So yeah they do have value still for better or for worse
I reckon WOTC’s first experiment with the changes will be Las Vegas baby!!!
You all and Brian Kibler have approached this issue in such a reasonable and dare I say adult way. I as a fan of this expensive game really appreciate the intelligent thoughts and discussions being had on his channel. Keep up the great work
In terms of magic as an investment you should not expect profit but it is not unreasonable to expect to be able to get a good portion of your money back if you decide to sell out of the game
Can some people just stop to support Hasbro? Try to move on.
Sure, but you also shouldn't park money on cards that can be reprinted into oblivion on a whim if you can't afford the loss. The sort of decks that these were in are loaded with pricey cardboard, the deck owners will still make a profit when they eventually sell off the cards.
Uh no, put that money in a fucking IRA. Buying cards is not any kind of investment.
That's fucking stupid to expect any kind of return
Why should you expect a good portion of your money back? There’s a million other hobbies that you get next to nothing if you decide to quit.
Just stupid.
So when the stock market crashes, the only losers are people who sell into the crash. The winners buy.
People said going back was worse, and that was frankly completely illogical. Undoing a mistake is not worse than a mistake.
Having your cards lose their value and playability overnight-when they are not broken and other similar cards are legal in the format-is really bad.
People who tore up their cards, put them in blenders, sold cards for almost nothing, because they crashed for one week, that’s their mistake.
Mana crypt and Jeweled Lotus should be playable in Competitive and High Powered Commander, and now players have their cards back to play with or sell out for good value.
Magic Historian said he'd be surprised if any cards are ever banned again, no matter how busted.
I read an unrelated comment from someone saying they expect WotC to channel their inner Konami and release intentionally broken cards only to ban them six months after release.
I lean towards the latter, but I believe one of these two predictions represent the future of commander.
Happy birthday Joel!
wasn't it confirmed that the RC blindsided everyone, especially the CAG, like what's the point of having a CAG when you dont even consult them for decisions
1. They did ask them about these cards previously and it was quite consistent that they needed to go at some point.
2. JLK pretty much admitted on the video that if the RC had told the CAG ahead of time he would have dumped his copies before the announcement.
@@PhysicsGamer that just means that they didnt trust the CAG in the first place, the professor even confirmed it, as a long time friend of many CAG members, none of them were informed of any bannings, they were blindsided like the rest of us, also confirmed in the FAQ they released
And JLK also said that their act of not informing the CAG of any moves, even hints of any moves, just goes to show, they didn't trust their own advisory group.
They should just call them the Commander They're just There group instead, why have an advisory group
Im a casual player, but I also have a group of friends that I play with from time to time. I enjoy playing decks of a wide range of power. When I play at a card shop it is the twenty minute turn decks that I do not like. If people play decks like that or if they crush everyone because they misrepresent the power of their deck, then I can choose to not play with them. There are people who I see regularly at my lgs that I will not play with for these reasons. I did play at a shop on Saturday and 2 of the guys I played with did not know any of this happened and they had banned cards in some of their decks. We let them play with the cards and all was well.
This is pretty much how I (jake) feel.
10:55 Not certain if this was recorded before or after Jim put out his statement about the change, but you really make it sound like wotc booted the RC. Jim reached out. The RC reached out. I agree, wotc wanted to control commander. And I am sure that wizards are VERY happy they got this "opportunity" to step in. But this wasn't a hostile takeover; this was a group of people feeling helpless and reaching out to a company that can actually do something for help.
The One Ring comes in the costco bundle yall
Source?
No it doesnt, that was photoshopped
Maybe, but it has not been confirmed and the $60 price that was leaked for that product doesn’t seem to reflect the inclusion of TOR.
I think we can expect an even greater degree of print to format cards without abandon
The best part of EDH was the fact the players had control. I will keep playing EDH, WotC can have Commander.
I’m so disappointed the RC didn’t just step down and replace themselves…I understand they did not want the abuse…but they didn’t need to hand us to wizards…feels like a betrayal
Wizards taking over makes me confident the next lutri isn’t instant banned and is left in the format to sell product to then be banned at a later date. That’s why this bad.
I completely agree with the Jeweled lotus unban due to commander only. And it makes 1 color, not multiple colors (unless im misremembering). I dont own one but have wanted to. And honestly, I wouldnt hate a sol ring ban. But I know theyve made wayyyyy too many variants to really back off on that
You guys really told your viewer the no1 card the strongest cedh staple was a safe investment ? Seriously ?
In the past when 2xm came out and when mystery booster 1 came out the card had a significant dip to around $60 and we said, “if you need one, now would be a good time.”
Based on current prices, it still would be.
What worries me most isnt bans, its power creep. More auto includes, super staples and strict upgrades. I've onky been playing since Khaldheim and im TIRED.
Merry Birthmas Joel!
Btw, WOTC specifically didn’t mention unbans in their statement. Also, “not our priority” isn’t a denial at all 🍿
If they truly want to support the community, why not propose a list of banned cards and have the players vote yes or no on whether to ban them or not. Not only will this give people a heads up that this card could be potentially banned but it also gives the power back to the community.
"WotC won't fleece people because they know it will annoy them."
I don't think they could care less, they're in the business of seeing how far they can push things before they pivot their angle. I don't understand why you don't think they'd do the same with their banlists, or even now being more likely to power creep things intentionally then banning after releasing things more frequently.
IMO there shouldn't be a safety net for anything. The cards that should hold the most value are the ones that are for competitive play, old ass cards, scarce promos, unique foils, and serialized cards. Everything else should be subject to a reprint and should be. Like every year WoTC needs to have a set release that is just for reprints like Konami's 2020 tins. $20 bucks includes packs and gives you great reprints maybe with different art or something that sets that one apart from the cards.
I am so happy that I always have let the game come first, and thoughts about investment, as a cozy but not really serious thought.
At 20 minutes you talk about wotc wanting to push out cards to make room for new ones. I don't know if this will happen. The cynic in me finds it very plausible. 6 infinity stones, 1 for each color and one colorless. I could see the infinity stones being new mana rocks.
Longterm, I think wizards will want a home to exist for these banned cards. To me that means bracket 4 will have less bans or they will create a "vintage commander" format.
Honestly it's a good theory.. I could see it.
i do not think that the infinity stones will be mana rocks.
Would not make sense for the flavour.
It will be a have all on the board kind of effect and every single one of them does theyr own specific thing.
@keldone3186 that's possible. I could also see the gauntlet saying "if you control all six, you win the game"
@@Hapkins-le6xf jep something like that
may have traded in my dockside into my LGS for store credit a bit too soon but at the same time i played the deck it was in and i still won cause of the worldgorger/animate dead combo (deck is Anje falkenrath) so if dockside comes back ohwell, hopefully my LGS can make some money from it. Happy Birthday Joel!
Edit: with the store credit from dockside and some other cards i had in my folder i managed to get upgrades for my new aminatou deck like new land upgrades
The doom and gloom isn't because we think a Thanos Snap is about to happen, it's going to be a long and drawn out decline over time. Designing for commander was already negatively impacting pretty much every format INCLUDING commander, and now the check and balance to their monopoly is gone.
i truly hope they just make 3 or 4 separate ban lists and have no exceptions to the bans unless you are playing kitchen table or with your friends. its like t1 , these are banned , t2 everything from t1 plus these cards and so forth.
I do pick up games since my friends live far away, I have a mana crypt that a friend got me, now I can't use it for any format except vintage (restricted) which I don't, and won't play. Less bans.
This might just push me into can lander. I can't trust wizards or Hasbro and believe they will do too much damage than harm. Long Live the RC.
Happy Birthday!
The biggest issue is the potential of 'insider trading'. The outrage stems from an emotional/sensitive base that wotc/rc coddled.
Mtg celebrities and youtube channels never boycotted / held wotcs feet to fire. The grift is too good.
I’ve repeatedly said wizards was in complete control here, even before this week. They weren’t not going to be in tight control of their largest profit center.
This is just removing the thin veil that there was some “independent” body regulating this.
@@Morphling92yeah exactly which is why this is a good thing. Because now they can actually be held accountable thru sales.
@@Morphling92exactly, if they were “independent” why would they need to be in talks with WotC about the bans for over a year?
RC having a hard time making a good decision. Now they won’t get the opportunity to make another one. They hit us with the mini-Madoff and then hand over the keys to WotC. The current RC never needed to be in charge, but WotC shouldn’t be in running commander either. Can I cast reanimate on Sheldon?
He enters as a Zombie God, and the next ten years of cards are Innistrad part VII, VIII, IX, etc.
It’s a big challenge to have a huge multiplayer format. No other game has anything close . CCGs are a new genre - should be interesting
See, I’m optimistic because this reminds me of when pauper got taken under Gavin Verity’s care and it’s become a much more cared for format. It was very weird anomaly for an outside group of only five people to run a game company’s top selling game format. It should’ve always been with game designers, and, yes, people concerned about the collectibility.
Pauper isn't close to being the cash cow that EDH is though. It is just harder for WotC to monetize.
I think a better comparison would be modern. WotC will print chase cards and effectively force rotation.
Wizards of the Coast has ran the competitive formats into the ground, not from over-regulation, but from neglect. Modern, pioneer, and legacy, have all had a drop in players due to a lack of banning problematic cards. If they handle commander the same way, I think it will likely lead to a format similar to when the rules committee was sitting one its hands with banning being small and infrequent.
modern is more popular now than it has been in many years, dont know where you are getting your numbers. commander has just taken so much of the real estate and rightfully so, standard and pioneer just dont have the variety that modern and commander have and get boring, why invest time and money into those formats when commander and modern exist...
The idiots on the rules committee should have seen this coming- you don't hurt peoples investment and expect them to take it lying down. If they didn't resign they would have been kicked out sooner or later.
If WotC wants to open the floodgates of power creep in Commander, let them. I'll still play what appeals to me and I can opt out of their crazy stuff.
Edit: odds are though, they'll come out with a tiered system for staples of cards and have a power system for people to better determine power levels while they're out and about.
Incredibly disappointing to see a community organization absorbed by a corporation, especially at the impetus of mass harassment
But I guess the community got what it deserved after threatening anyone on the RC / CAG.Specially guys like you two that were crying and venting rage against them.
But congratulations, you all got what you wanted. I mean, you two said that the bans were worst than magic 30. It's not like wotc has been destroying the game for the last years right? Everything will be so much better know that the game is in their hands...hurrah!
So J&J arnt allowed to have their opinion? They never said anyone should harass or go after anyone, in fact they said the exact opposite. You sound really salty for some reason.
@@J_Dubb1They were mad bitchin' though. Kinda embarrassingly too.
RC and CAG never had real power, they said hated jeweled lotus since day 1, and took them 4 years to ban it, if they really could, it would be banned year 1.
Or they really dont have too much power or they are super slow and kind bad at it.
Why would the CAG go away? The milk is still being delivered, it's just being delivered by Amazon instead of the milkman. Wizards already hires a CAG equivalent to advise on Modern and other formats, they'll continue to engage with CAG/RC. It's their 'community outreach'.
This gives me a glimmer of hope, because I haven't played a commander game in over a decade now, and the reason is the community. When commander became the most popular format, we got a bunch of enforced conformity that wasn't there before, and a bunch of Modern players coming in and trying to turn the format into Modern, and that ruined it for me. Now with the RC gone, I'm hoping a lot of those players will leave and I can find a game I can enjoy again. Take your power creep and your play-the-way-everyone-else-plays attitude and get out of my format!
I think WOTC will get rid of the RL in commander. That basically removes it from people’s mind and those cards can be collector pieces. I think that’ll be the biggest impact from WOTC.
This is a worse outcome for all involved. When Wizards gets involved, things go south. I, for one, agreed with the bans, and in fact want _far more_ bans. Magic is increasingly become Yu-Gi-Oh! and I don't want to play the speed game that entails.
MTG is nothing close to that garbage game
@@DavidFast71 Just give Wotc some more time 😉
@@DavidFast71not yet… they need to print a gazillion sets per year for more profits and nobody buys all those sets when they don‘t contain strong cards. This leads to massive powercreep which you already can see. It‘s common to win turn 2 in standard with aggro variants and it‘s really hard to deal with for nearly any other deck…
it feels as fast as modern… so… give them some years and it just will get worse and worse
this is commander you are talking about not a competitive format.. you can use cards from the entire history of the game. i dont see how you could have this view when you will now have a specified tier of game play, hopefully a complete separate ban list with no sol rings or any fast mana similar to the ban list for dual commander that you can now sit down at a random table and play with strangers at an fnm with. its a win win.... check out the dual commander ban list , this is what i am assuming t1 or t2 pods are going to be like.
@lapsehc Not a competitive format? I mean CEDH is a thing, but even outside of that it gets stupid very quickly. I don't know about your game groups, but mine are sweaty as hell. Everyone runs those exact cards in all of their decks. It's to the point now that every deck is just a slight variation on an engine.
In my immediate friend group we do have some ground rules (no tutors and we limit fast mana beyond Sol Ring), but if we play at our LGS it's just a freak show (in more ways than one). Magic players (hell, all tcg players) are no different than Gatcha gamers. If they can obtain advantage by spending more money than you, they will do it, and the policies and practices of WotC and investment dorks make playing the game an increasingly negative experience for anyone without an exorbitant amount of disposable income.
Yeah, you can print proxies, but to me that feels lame and creates an environment of "The wealthy can have the real thing, you poors can use printer paper". Not a fan of the precedent this is setting.
Papa Hasbro: what do you mean you banned an expensive card and they hate you. Why did you delete the battleship out of the monopoly game….
Hasbro corp suits likely forced them out. How were 5 volunteers allowed to effect a million dollar corporation profit line. They have a fiduciary responsibility and they definitely messed that up. Add the security and legal issues that can lead to and there’s no way the RC can continue.
And yes, criticism of a choice is ok. Personal attacks, doxxing, and other malicious activity is not.
Cardboard Finance is a thing though, collectables are big business at this point - players wishing it didn't exist are blowing in the wind + not understanding the financial aspect is part of what drives the mtg ecosystem.
I feel like these kinds of videos and there's been a ton since the whole situation started is just digging ourselves deeper in a hole. It is apparent people cant handle the situation properly, the more we touch it the worse it gets.
Happy birthday Joel, that is the most important piece of news for the day.
just use the 'point system' for deck building like they do in canadian highlander. Each card is allotted a point value and you have (x) amount of points to build a deck.
I need to look into this
Happy birthday buddy. Mine was the next day , the first of the month baby !!
It’s odd how many people said buying cardboard is a waste of money while also calling Ubisoft evil for saying customers don’t own the games they buy from them. Mana Crypt wasn’t a financial investment for everyone, for a lot of players it was essentially buying DLC for a game that just shut down servers.
I can't think of anything I disagree with on what you said. It's interesting to think though that there's a MTG stock tracker and that cardboard is thick paper and our money is paper and people have been saying for years that Wotc is effectively printing money while (*wink) completely unaware of the secondary market. I'm sure there are shop owners or collectors who have lost tens of thousands. I personally wouldn't be at all surprise if the people who made treats are NOT the people who lost the most money. Probably lunatics who had one copy of a card and came unhinged on their 100$ loss.
Its baffles me how ubiquitous the RC’s stance’s were amongst the community, people treat their lists like commandments.
They are just a group of players in a room telling another group of players in a different room what is and isnt ok and most people just nod their head.
That being said - WotC has too much skin in the game to effectively monitor the format themselves…
From what I saw it was the threats that led the RC to become part of wotc which I think is less preferable than them remaining independent I trust them to manage the format better
The way it looks like is the players/investors who sent the death threats and acts of violence towards the RC got the W today with the RC going away.
Certainly one way to look at it - the other million players that wanted the RC gone were also satisfied by this outcome
No one ever wins through the use of violence and no one ever wins by using threats of violence. That’s a huge loss for the people who resorted to either of those pitiful tactics. I personally have principles that don’t get thrown away because I lost money. I’d rather be homeless than give in to such weakness
I mean the committee leaving is overall worse for the game in the long run, so they just took a situation they didn’t like and made it worse
Not really a W since they are likely the people that lost a bunch of money. So they're losers but just wanted to take the rest of us down with them
Thing is...can't not have it being an investment if cards cost 100s of dollars though. Magic puts itself forwards as a game with game pieces worth money, and sometimes...a lot of money. You can't fuck with that.
Will WOTC now be forced to "acknowledge" the secondary market in light of all the death threats and harassement?
IMO, as someone who comes from Yu-Gi-Oh!, this is just naturally a scary situation to be under…
The RC said they wouldn’t walk back the banned cards, with WotC in charge now do you think they will walk back the banns? I hope not, at this point it will cause more problems
Happy Birthday ! 🤘🦁🤘
We can’t escape that the RC acted badly. They wanted these cards banned, not Wizards or most frequent commander players. They gave Wizards a year to unload its stock and packs unquestionably and then screwed over players the second Wizards was out of these cards!
I just realised something. I consumed a lot of MTG content, before this banning events I was quite 'not entertained'. Now it's like raining candies. I listened to a lot of podcasts and it's very sweetened my days. 😂
Guess i love dramas.
Time for make another format again by the people for the people, commander is corrupted 😮 any suggestions haha
Literally never even seen your channel before. However i intend to watch every hot take on this garbage truck fire that i can
If you like Magic this is a great channel plus they do live shows
WOTC literally said “YOU NERDS ARE SCREWING WITH OUR PROFITS… GIMME”
I honestly am bummed I did not buy any lotuses, I was TOTALLY going to.
I don't express i play vojo with infinite mana combos with every hated card listed in why mana crypt and jlo had to go along with Land destruction. With my main win condition is commander damage via vojo. Turn two infinite mana or turn three with vojo out