I took McKee’s Story course, and I remember someone who took it told me that they didn’t really care for it, so I asked them if they were working on a particular story when they took the course, and they weren’t. That’s the thing, by having a story in mind as you take his course, you can concretize the abstractions he’s imparting. I always found his courses very helpful in helping punch up a story.
I read his book and I thought some of it would lead to bad writing and writer's block. Who, beyond some playwrights, plans beats??? Ridiculous. Maybe he inspired the hipster comic writers to way overuse the word beat in the 00s and early 10s. Chinatown is very overrated. I remember it being a pretty empty movie for a drama. It's nowhere near as good as Seven Samurai, for example. There is good basic advice from others though.
Years ago, I read online an interview with Peter O'Donnell - I wish I could find it again, I just tried and couldn't - talking about his creation of Modesty Blaise. I remember him as saying the young girl was older, around 11 or 12, and when he saw her it wasn't while he was riding in a truck. He and some other soldiers were sitting in a group, eating, I believe surrounded by bombed-out buildings, and looking out at them from the rubble they saw this young girl. She had a big nail she had bound by wire to a piece of wood as a weapon - a detail O'Donnell would later use in Modesty's origin. Pretty, dark-haired, with eyes as old as time in a child's face. She seemed very cautious, understandably so, and malnourished. Obviously she was attracted by the food, but afraid of being attacked. So O'Donnell opened up a can of rations and carried it toward her. She backed away, ready to run. So he sat the can down and backed away to the group of soldiers who were watching all this, fascinated, and sat down again. She came forward, picked up the can and started eating, never taking her eyes off them. O'Donnell said he was struck by how neatly she ate; wherever this girl had come from, whatever was her story, she had manners. When she was done, she set the empty can down, bowed slightly in his direction, said something in a language he didn't understand, but obviously polite thanks, turned and disappeared into the rubble. He never saw her again. Though he often wondered what had eventually happened to her, and wished her well. 20 years later, she showed up again, as Modesty Blaise.
I met Jim Shooter at the bar at this years HeroesCon. I thanked him for all the great comics he produced. He was pleased and told me a few stories. What a nice guy! A highlight for me.
I wish I read Modesty Blaise. Maybe I will. Ditko was the most cheated creator, because he created Spider-Man's costume (likely after being inspired by a Holloween costume for kids from the 50s) and much of Spider-Man. I read McKee's most popular book, but I brain dumped it. He's better than most writing "experts", but I thought he made writing sound overly technical. Does anyone actually plan story beats? Maybe some playwrights, but this sounded ridiculous and like bad writing outside of plays. Chinatown is very overrated. I became tired of hearing about it. How many have watched it or like it? There is some good basic writing advice from others though.
Your comment got me thinking. I've done six novels, and I actually did have "beats," but I didn't really think of it in those terms since i wasn't working on a script or screenplay. Most modern novels do have beats. It's probably ingrained from years of writers watching TV, movies, etc. Novels are more influenced by these works today than we expect. I think I'm like most in that I have natural beats that come out, especially to signal scene transitions. I always seemed to want to sneak in a little irony in the last bit of dialogue before a scene ended, for example. I imagine it's more of an internalized thing than something technical to keep track of, but it's still valuable to understand this about yourself as a writer.
@@wtk6069 That's a good point. A prose writer may create beats naturally by having conflict between characters in dialogue, but planning this out seems excessive. I doubt most screenplay writers do it. Playwrighting can be brutally difficult. I'm also skeptical of the three act etc structure. Some screenwriters use it, but it seems artificial, and it may be a myth. One thing you frequently see in movies is a big reversal of fortune for the main character before the final conflict, so somekind of structure is commonly used. (This feels tired and artificial now. The 77 Star Wars doesn't really do it, and Luke doesn't really "save the cat". The Mos Eisley part isn't really part of the same "act" as the earlier parts of the movie (and there isn't a reversal there). There is a big reversal of fortune when Luke's parents are killed at the end of an early segment. The Empire destroying Alderaan and capturing the heroes happens at the beginning of a segment. (This doesn't include the parts with the villains. You can argue Vader is like a protagonist. Han is a supporting character and a protagonist. I want to say he is like an antagonist to Luke but the reverse is true. Luke also is a supporting character to him. Leia is like an antagonist to Han. She also is a supporting character to Luke and Han and a protagonist. She is a supporting character in the other two movies. (The inciting incidents for Luke are R2 leaving to find Obi-Wan and Leia's hologram, so everything before it is set up (where R2 is a protagonist), though you could say the inciting incident for Vader is the droids escaping. (How many "acts" does Return of the Jedi have? The Endor part has four segments and six if segments can overlap. The second with the speeder bikes is a reversal of fortune. There is big reversal near the end when the rebels are captured on Endor etc, but it is near the beginnings of overlapping segments. The Tatooine part has two segments (the entire first is a reversal of fortune), and there are the transitional segments. Vader is also a protagonist, but his role in reduced. RothJ doesn't have a clear inciting incident(s). (RothJ definately needs the unused intro part with Vader in his meditation pod and Luke in the cave. I can't understand why Lucas awfully put back one of the Biggs scenes into Star Wars 77 but didn't put back the intro part into RothJ.) (The Empire Strikes Back has many overlapping segments. There are many reversals of fortune. The biggest is Lando's betrayal and Han's freezing at the end of a the first Bespin segment. Luke, Han, Lando, and Vader are protagonists with conflicts. Vader and Lando, who begins as a supporting character, also are antagonists. Technically, Han is the lead of a group protagonist. You can see Leia as also an antagonist. The inciting incidents are the Empire attacking Hoth and the wampa attacking Luke with the vision of Obi-Wan. (The prequels and the Disney sequels do the big reversal of fortune near the end, but The Last Jedi adds the part on the salt planet, I guess because they wanted the showdown between Luke and Kylo. This wrecks Poe and Finn's arcs, because they must fail. Ridiculously, they are saved by Holdo before the salt planet. With the Ewoks, the heroes earned their friendship (kind of).) Maybe TV is more structured, but it usually is dull. I imagine you can just do rising conflict with some reversals, and you will create an engaging story. (I would say one of RothJ's problems is the heroes are in greater danger on Tatooine.)
@@wtk6069 So I think the Star Wars OT movies, or just the first two, have something like loose three act structures, but it's more useful to see them as smaller segments. I guess these are sequences of scenes. Star Wars 77 has two loose segments/sequences. The first is the intro which is like a mini-act which overlaps with the first act where the droids are the main protagonists. The second is the Mos Eisley part. You can see these as intros to acts. (I would connect the battle with the TIEs segment with the Death Star rescue and escape segment.) (A couple story problems I noticed are the Luke and Han relationship is overly antagonistic. This was something which was mostly added later, though the antagonism with Leia was there earlier. Also, there should be be a part where Luke tells Leia he wants to join the Alliance. There is something like this in an earlier draft, but it isn't good. Also it was a mistake to have Luke say there is nothing for him on Tatooine after his parents are killed.) The ESB has two middle and two final "acts" which overlap. The Dagobah second "act" overlaps with the Bespin third "act". (They should have had Han ask Lando if he is hiring.) It has a stronger story. The parts with the wampa are another overlapping intro segment/sequence. RothJ is more flimsy and has many issues. I don't think it's useful to see it's parts as acts. The segments in the middle are set up for the final "act" and not really an act. The first "act" on Tatooine is loosely connected to the final "act" on Endor. They should have had Han decide to help the Alliance to help his friends who saved him, or at least Lando. It's not clear what his motives are. There are other tweaks they could have made to connect the acts and improve Han's story. They should have had the Emperor tempt Luke with power. (While Lucas made some odd choices for it, The Phantom Menace is well structured. It has four acts. Though Anakin should be older, and the audience should be aware of Padme's decoy from the beginning. They should have had Maul tell Qui-Gon he wants the boy on Naboo. It's interesting more of Threepio's dialogue for Star Wars 77 was good in the drafts before the dialogue of the other characters. I wonder why. Maybe Lucas loved writing him.)
I was just wondering what are some of the best comics you would recommend for someone who is wanting to get into comics or stories you have written? Thanks
Batman/Wildcat, Batman/Catwoman, Winterworld, Punisher War Zone #s 1-6, Airboy 1942: Best of Enemies. Actually, anything written by Chuck Dixon that says Airboy on the cover.
Punisher is a good start for anyone new to comics and is a fan of that character since you can start at any issue. Make sure it is written by Chuck Dixon or Carl Potts. Punisher war journal from the 90s and punisher war zone from the 90s. Also Dan slotts superior Spider-Man was good and Peter David’s spider man 2099 was good.
www.indiegogo.com/projects/first-kill-graphic-novel#/
www.subscribestar.com/chuck-dixon
www.indiegogo.com/projects/joe-frankenstein-part-1#/
www.amazon.com/Siege-Black-Citadel-Chuck-Dixon/dp/9527303354/ref=rvi_sccl_6/140-8592909-8131842?pd_rd_w=rCFqT&content-id=amzn1.sym.f5690a4d-f2bb-45d9-9d1b-736fee412437&pf_rd_p=f5690a4d-f2bb-45d9-9d1b-736fee412437&pf_rd_r=X1R7VB7NKDMNR0W61MKF&pd_rd_wg=iwsmH&pd_rd_r=9ead6ae0-88de-44bc-bfde-831cdaa51907&pd_rd_i=9527303354&psc=1
spinrack.io/
www.arkhaven.com/
I took McKee’s Story course, and I remember someone who took it told me that they didn’t really care for it, so I asked them if they were working on a particular story when they took the course, and they weren’t. That’s the thing, by having a story in mind as you take his course, you can concretize the abstractions he’s imparting. I always found his courses very helpful in helping punch up a story.
I read his book and I thought some of it would lead to bad writing and writer's block. Who, beyond some playwrights, plans beats??? Ridiculous. Maybe he inspired the hipster comic writers to way overuse the word beat in the 00s and early 10s.
Chinatown is very overrated. I remember it being a pretty empty movie for a drama. It's nowhere near as good as Seven Samurai, for example. There is good basic advice from others though.
Years ago, I read online an interview with Peter O'Donnell - I wish I could find it again, I just tried and couldn't - talking about his creation of Modesty Blaise. I remember him as saying the young girl was older, around 11 or 12, and when he saw her it wasn't while he was riding in a truck. He and some other soldiers were sitting in a group, eating, I believe surrounded by bombed-out buildings, and looking out at them from the rubble they saw this young girl. She had a big nail she had bound by wire to a piece of wood as a weapon - a detail O'Donnell would later use in Modesty's origin. Pretty, dark-haired, with eyes as old as time in a child's face. She seemed very cautious, understandably so, and malnourished. Obviously she was attracted by the food, but afraid of being attacked. So O'Donnell opened up a can of rations and carried it toward her. She backed away, ready to run. So he sat the can down and backed away to the group of soldiers who were watching all this, fascinated, and sat down again. She came forward, picked up the can and started eating, never taking her eyes off them. O'Donnell said he was struck by how neatly she ate; wherever this girl had come from, whatever was her story, she had manners. When she was done, she set the empty can down, bowed slightly in his direction, said something in a language he didn't understand, but obviously polite thanks, turned and disappeared into the rubble. He never saw her again. Though he often wondered what had eventually happened to her, and wished her well. 20 years later, she showed up again, as Modesty Blaise.
Thank you for repeating that story. I had never heard it, and it's nothing less than amazing.
@@wtk6069 Yer welcome.
"A Bullet for Bullock" was in Detective Comics #651 (Oct. 1992).
Thanks, gotta hunt it down.
@@eveahn9595 Yer welcome.
Detective Comics 651 was the very first Batman comic. I still own it and its one of my most treasured possessions.
I met Jim Shooter at the bar at this years HeroesCon. I thanked him for all the great comics he produced. He was pleased and told me a few stories. What a nice guy! A highlight for me.
Oh ho, so this is where you are.
I've heard you were online.
Glad i found you.
I feel like a Three Musketeers comic series would be tight.
Especially with how many tales there were written of them by Dumas alone. Tons of materials to take advantage of
It's always great to start the day with a solid Warren Zevon reference!
Did Superman follow through on his offer to host Robin when he visited Metropolis?
I wish I read Modesty Blaise. Maybe I will.
Ditko was the most cheated creator, because he created Spider-Man's costume (likely after being inspired by a Holloween costume for kids from the 50s) and much of Spider-Man.
I read McKee's most popular book, but I brain dumped it. He's better than most writing "experts", but I thought he made writing sound overly technical. Does anyone actually plan story beats? Maybe some playwrights, but this sounded ridiculous and like bad writing outside of plays.
Chinatown is very overrated. I became tired of hearing about it. How many have watched it or like it? There is some good basic writing advice from others though.
Your comment got me thinking. I've done six novels, and I actually did have "beats," but I didn't really think of it in those terms since i wasn't working on a script or screenplay. Most modern novels do have beats. It's probably ingrained from years of writers watching TV, movies, etc. Novels are more influenced by these works today than we expect. I think I'm like most in that I have natural beats that come out, especially to signal scene transitions. I always seemed to want to sneak in a little irony in the last bit of dialogue before a scene ended, for example. I imagine it's more of an internalized thing than something technical to keep track of, but it's still valuable to understand this about yourself as a writer.
@@wtk6069 That's a good point. A prose writer may create beats naturally by having conflict between characters in dialogue, but planning this out seems excessive. I doubt most screenplay writers do it. Playwrighting can be brutally difficult.
I'm also skeptical of the three act etc structure. Some screenwriters use it, but it seems artificial, and it may be a myth. One thing you frequently see in movies is a big reversal of fortune for the main character before the final conflict, so somekind of structure is commonly used.
(This feels tired and artificial now. The 77 Star Wars doesn't really do it, and Luke doesn't really "save the cat". The Mos Eisley part isn't really part of the same "act" as the earlier parts of the movie (and there isn't a reversal there). There is a big reversal of fortune when Luke's parents are killed at the end of an early segment. The Empire destroying Alderaan and capturing the heroes happens at the beginning of a segment.
(This doesn't include the parts with the villains. You can argue Vader is like a protagonist. Han is a supporting character and a protagonist. I want to say he is like an antagonist to Luke but the reverse is true. Luke also is a supporting character to him. Leia is like an antagonist to Han. She also is a supporting character to Luke and Han and a protagonist. She is a supporting character in the other two movies.
(The inciting incidents for Luke are R2 leaving to find Obi-Wan and Leia's hologram, so everything before it is set up (where R2 is a protagonist), though you could say the inciting incident for Vader is the droids escaping.
(How many "acts" does Return of the Jedi have? The Endor part has four segments and six if segments can overlap. The second with the speeder bikes is a reversal of fortune. There is big reversal near the end when the rebels are captured on Endor etc, but it is near the beginnings of overlapping segments. The Tatooine part has two segments (the entire first is a reversal of fortune), and there are the transitional segments. Vader is also a protagonist, but his role in reduced. RothJ doesn't have a clear inciting incident(s).
(RothJ definately needs the unused intro part with Vader in his meditation pod and Luke in the cave. I can't understand why Lucas awfully put back one of the Biggs scenes into Star Wars 77 but didn't put back the intro part into RothJ.)
(The Empire Strikes Back has many overlapping segments. There are many reversals of fortune. The biggest is Lando's betrayal and Han's freezing at the end of a the first Bespin segment. Luke, Han, Lando, and Vader are protagonists with conflicts. Vader and Lando, who begins as a supporting character, also are antagonists. Technically, Han is the lead of a group protagonist. You can see Leia as also an antagonist. The inciting incidents are the Empire attacking Hoth and the wampa attacking Luke with the vision of Obi-Wan.
(The prequels and the Disney sequels do the big reversal of fortune near the end, but The Last Jedi adds the part on the salt planet, I guess because they wanted the showdown between Luke and Kylo. This wrecks Poe and Finn's arcs, because they must fail. Ridiculously, they are saved by Holdo before the salt planet. With the Ewoks, the heroes earned their friendship (kind of).)
Maybe TV is more structured, but it usually is dull. I imagine you can just do rising conflict with some reversals, and you will create an engaging story. (I would say one of RothJ's problems is the heroes are in greater danger on Tatooine.)
@@wtk6069 So I think the Star Wars OT movies, or just the first two, have something like loose three act structures, but it's more useful to see them as smaller segments. I guess these are sequences of scenes. Star Wars 77 has two loose segments/sequences.
The first is the intro which is like a mini-act which overlaps with the first act where the droids are the main protagonists. The second is the Mos Eisley part. You can see these as intros to acts. (I would connect the battle with the TIEs segment with the Death Star rescue and escape segment.)
(A couple story problems I noticed are the Luke and Han relationship is overly antagonistic. This was something which was mostly added later, though the antagonism with Leia was there earlier. Also, there should be be a part where Luke tells Leia he wants to join the Alliance. There is something like this in an earlier draft, but it isn't good. Also it was a mistake to have Luke say there is nothing for him on Tatooine after his parents are killed.)
The ESB has two middle and two final "acts" which overlap. The Dagobah second "act" overlaps with the Bespin third "act". (They should have had Han ask Lando if he is hiring.) It has a stronger story. The parts with the wampa are another overlapping intro segment/sequence.
RothJ is more flimsy and has many issues. I don't think it's useful to see it's parts as acts. The segments in the middle are set up for the final "act" and not really an act. The first "act" on Tatooine is loosely connected to the final "act" on Endor.
They should have had Han decide to help the Alliance to help his friends who saved him, or at least Lando. It's not clear what his motives are. There are other tweaks they could have made to connect the acts and improve Han's story. They should have had the Emperor tempt Luke with power.
(While Lucas made some odd choices for it, The Phantom Menace is well structured. It has four acts. Though Anakin should be older, and the audience should be aware of Padme's decoy from the beginning. They should have had Maul tell Qui-Gon he wants the boy on Naboo. It's interesting more of Threepio's dialogue for Star Wars 77 was good in the drafts before the dialogue of the other characters. I wonder why. Maybe Lucas loved writing him.)
I was just wondering what are some of the best comics you would recommend for someone who is wanting to get into comics or stories you have written? Thanks
Batman Year One, Robin Year One, Batgirl Year One, Nightwing Year One, Knightfall, No Man's Land
Batman/Wildcat, Batman/Catwoman, Winterworld, Punisher War Zone #s 1-6, Airboy 1942: Best of Enemies. Actually, anything written by Chuck Dixon that says Airboy on the cover.
Dixon's G.I. Joe run at IDW is underrated.
Punisher is a good start for anyone new to comics and is a fan of that character since you can start at any issue. Make sure it is written by Chuck Dixon or Carl Potts. Punisher war journal from the 90s and punisher war zone from the 90s. Also Dan slotts superior Spider-Man was good and Peter David’s spider man 2099 was good.
And THEN Mark Hamill went WOKE in 2010.......