Seems so simple and common sense, but you're right, no one actually seems to be doing this. People get clouded by their emotions, especially wanting to make the game or elements in a game they want instead of thinking what the target audience would want or what would perform well in the market. And the people who are focusing on those things tend to not have an artist's/designer's eye and turn out glaringly unappealing slop. You are a a rare creator, which makes your content all the more valuable. Subscribed!
I think the main problem is its really really really hard to make games. So potentially someone has all that knowledge and planning but not the skill to make it actually be what they need it to be.
Yeah we have great ideas but not the skill to inact on them but the people that do put all their points into getting good at making games that they don’t have any points left in their creativity department
@@suitNtie22 Well one of the things is people want to make the game Gavin's talking about right away. Gavin himself made TONS of small games before CCC and he does say in his channel intro that you should have at least released a game, tried to apply all the marketing tips, the game flopped, and only then will his tips be useful. The actual majority of game devs are really hesitant to make simple games for a while first.
I absolutely love and appreciate your videos! It would be amazing to see a video or series where you take a break from the hardcore topics and do something more casual, like scrolling through or playing random games on Steam while sharing your thoughts. It could also give real examples of all the topics we’ve been discussing.
Very interesting, can't wait to see your next videos on these topics. I feel like there really isn't enough information out there for how these things work, so I greatly appreciate that you are taking the time to explain what you found out through your own research and gamedev experience.
Marketability is everything! Everyone asks, "Oh how do I market?!" when they have absolutely 0 marketability. Have good, well written characters or striking character designs that make themselves the icons of the game. FNaF has Freddy a subversion of Chuck-E-Cheese, your Choo-Choo Charles is a subversion of Thomas the Tank Engine, Bendy is a Subversion of Mickey Mouse. Of course, you don't have to make a character be derivative for them to be marketable. For instance, Buckshot Roulette has the Dealer and Mouthwashing has Skinless Guy .™Every successful "Viral" game has a sort of icon character or characters to it that is memorable that sticks in the brains of viewers on the the homepage.
@@ScientiaLudosthis pertains to your last video, but you described me: a parent who works full time with opposite shifts from their wife. I'm designing the game around virality, but I have no time to focus on marketing material. Along the way I want to record content so I can release devlogs closer to the the end stages of the game so I can avoid burnout / feeling rushed by viewers. Do you think this is an okay strategy or a little off-putting for the viewers?
Personally, what appeals to me is the idea of making a game for a specific underserved audience rather than broad appeal. Will check out your video on niche games to see what the problem with doing that is. I don't want to make millions. $100k/year would be amazing. I guess if you shoot for the bullseye and miss, you still hit the target but if you aim for the edge and miss, well, you miss... hmm...
I'd never tell someone how much money they should want to make, or what their goal should be, but I can guarantee you, it's easier to make 1 million dollar game, than it is to make 10 100 thousand dollar games.
@@ScientiaLudos Yeah makes sense. But presumably to get to that million dollar game, you have to make a lot of small games beforehand before you really know if you're hitting those survival instincts, and just good game design.
I feel like my current game will have a decently sized audience because I tailored it to an existing base of people who love two specific games. but, my next game would definitely go viral, I'm sure I could do it. I love your notes on this, especially with relatability to humanoid-type characters and locations. I also appreciate you speaking of the technical aspects of virality based on visibility on social media, that's such a big part of the puzzle. A few things I also think add to virality. 1. One thing is taking an existing game that people love, and genre-blending it with something else that hasn't been seen. (it can't be too close to something else, sure it could work, but you want something distinct) 2. You need to make the whole hook, idea, feel, of the game instantaneously recognizable/understandable. 3. Is it something that players will want to show their friends? 4. Will the mechanics put you in funny (or unique and fun) scenarios? 5. Turn a genre on its head. Use irony as well. Choo Choo Charles is an excellent example obviously. It's for people who love trains, survival games, and horror. The Charles is unique and doesn't need rails. It looks like a nightmare Thomas, which feels somewhat ironic since trains are usually seen as cute when personified. People get it instantly. I can say squirrel with a gun and everyone knows what I'm talking about. While it's certainly doable and reproducible, there will always be a certain amount of luck factor needed (time, place, people), but your chances are vastly better. Same with anything else, though.
Glad i found this channel! I appreciate these kinds of videos. Would love to see a video series dedicated to making trailers, steam page etc. If you had a patreon for something like this or a course i would definitely buy it!
Whats ur thoughts on the opposite strategy of spaming,cross promoting similar games? There is like the 100 cat series etc on steam. Kinda opposite strategy or viral games, they abuse quanity over quality
As always, amazing video, thanks, and I'll tell you more, with all these insights, I'm going to create something amazing and comeback here to show how important are these topics that you address in your videos.
This all seems kind of vague. I think the answer to "What triggers a game to go viral?" is actually, in order or priority: 1. Give it amazing graphics or a unique (and appealing) art direction, or at the very least give it some shocking/memorable imagery (like a cool monster train, for example) 2. Give it a strong hook on top of the visual hook, an easily understandable idea that makes the largest amount of people possible to immediately say "omg that sounds amazing I want to play it" (like upgrading a train to escape or fight a monster train, for example) 3. Have the game design be as entertaining to watch and stream as it is to play (social deduction games like Among Us or "impossible" platforming games are good examples)
@@JouunaasWhy not? Tell me of a game that matches all three items on the list that didn't go viral or tell me of a viral game that doesn't match at least 2 points of this list
@4e34e545e345w3 Art is the first thing you see about a game. It's the reason you click on a video, the reason you click on a game on Steam. Art is what brings people in. The other points are what make people stay. As I mentioned in the original comment at the very least you need an impactful image like the design of Choo Choo Charles or the poppy playtime monster, even if the rest of the art is low quality
@Danimita92 If you fall for clickbait art that's you. All people are not like you. Stop assuming everyone reacts same like you do. It's not the reason people play games, nor the reason to click on games. And it's definitely not the main reason why games go viral. If that were the case, good majority of viral games would have to have distinct art style or thumbnail cover that catches the eye like you describe, but that is simply not the case. Just take a look at the games that went viral, majority of them have nothing eye-catching or visually stunning. Games can go viral for multitude of reasons, most common would probably be simple yet engaging game loop and getting promotion from any popular person or group of people. You're totally of point here and projecting your taste on other people
Can we get your perspective on the difference in marketing for multiplayer vs single player? Would love to hear since you already did singleplayer and now trying multi.
Do you have specific youtubers in mind that are so big they're not running it as a business and just play games cause they're fun? I could use that list :D
The main thing which triggers a game to go viral is an idea, nothing else; choo choo charles only went viral because of the "Thomas Feeds" idea/character you copied and repurposed for your game nothing else, as most people say the game itself wasn't actually very good, it was only that character which attracted people and i think you're well aware of this. You won't have that success/virality again because it wasn't your idea to begin with and looking at your other games including your latest they don't look good, undoubtedly you may have some moderate success as you have now built a following but you really shouldn't be trying to give advice to people when you have very little experience and only had success due to using someone else's idea.
@@RandomlyAwesomeGamer In terms of game dev you should have some decent professional experience behind you and a proven track record same as any serious profession, having a one hit wonder because you copied someone else's idea does not make you credible. I agree though 99% of people on youtube doing game dev seem to pretend they know what they're talking about but most the time are giving out really bad information.
@@julok-xw2mw It not just about that character, his most popular video was just showing off the train in game, the drivable train. And you are calling him out saying all this stuff, saying everyone doesnt know what they're talking about, do you know what you're talking about? should i listen to someone who can't even be a one hit wonder? and you say he has very little experience, what is your experience? Lurking r/gamedev and giving other people advice?
@julok-xw2mw how much experience does someone need before they can give advice? Gavin has been making and publishing games for over ten years. He has at least 9 games on steam right now, and he’s published on other platforms as well. He runs a successful UA-cam channel, understands game marketing, and has demonstrated competency with all aspects of the indie game business. To say that he has very little experience is just uninformed.
More specifically he was piggybacking on the already existing meme format that is thomas the tank engine/kids cartoon character being made scary/humorous. Another example of this is that film Winnie the pooh Blood and Honey. If there was some way of describing that as a more general bit of advice would be "A funny edgy gimmick that tickles people's interest", which applies to something like squirrel with a gun or Helldivers.
i mean if you want a guaranteed viral game, then make a good game, there is no objectively good game that isn't viral "But what about X" Whatever game you think deserves more players than it currently has is merely subjectively good (to a very niche audience or you specifically) fuck designing "viral" games, just make a good game. it's like Among Us, that game had a very low player count for a long time before people discovered it, it was an objectively good game so it exponentially grew with no actual marketing. Not because it was designed for virality, it was literally just simply an objectively good game.
thats just wrong, he defined what viral means in this video and thats billions of views online. Making a good game is not going to just get you that virality. And it isnt a pick or choose, you dont pick either a good game or a viral game, you make a good game but also do your research so it has the potential to go viral. Ok imagine among us, they made it but it wasnt multiplayer, it was a challenge game vs bots, like a puzzle game. Would that have gone viral, hell no. Making good games is simply not enough, it just isnt, you shouldnt have to rely on a streamer randomly playing your game years after launch. and yes you can just ignore virality and make a good game and it does good, but at that point you are just leaving it up to luck
@@VodySly You literally just proved my point in your own reply? If Among Us was a challenge game vs bots, like a puzzle game, it would have simply not been objectively a good game, because it would have lacked any substance. therefor it would have never gone viral As i said, Good game = naturally Viral game.
@@luckyboy5nu Is that a point? Im genuinley confused how you can twist something like that. Like your argument is just wrong, there are entire discussions online about hidden gems, you know what hidden gems mean, it means really good games that never went viral.
@@VodySly as i said in my original comment, hidden gems are simply subjectively good games that appeal to a niche audience, that which is a hidden gem to me, might just be another crappy game to you and vice versa in contrast, an objectively good game will naturally "go viral" because it is appealing not to just a niche audience. at this point i'm just reiterating the same thing over and over again so please read and interpret what im saying so i don't have to put it in another way for you again.
@@luckyboy5nu Okay but what about you make an objectively good game and no one plays it. You can make the greatest game ever made, nothing comes close, but if you put it in a tin box, and bury it 8ft underground, it won't just magically go viral. Maybe you need to go back and reread. It isn't a viral game or a good game, making a game viral is a part of the game. Like I said before, if you remove the viral factor of among us, it wouldn't have happened. Viral Games need to be interesting and more appealing. Good Games Generally Are This And That's Why Good Games Are Hugely Popular. Cause No DUH, The Most Viral Games Online are going to be good games, same way the top 100 IMDB are going to be good movies. Your argument is literally just, all cars in Nascar are fast, so if you just make a fast car your Car will be in Nascar. This is the most surface level take you can possibly have. Oh the top 100 read books of this decade are good books, WhAt WhO CoUlD HaVe FoRsEen ThIs?!?! Yes dude, good games do better than bad games, thank god you figured it out else who else would've, we're lucky to be in the same timeline as this marvelous mind.
Seems so simple and common sense, but you're right, no one actually seems to be doing this. People get clouded by their emotions, especially wanting to make the game or elements in a game they want instead of thinking what the target audience would want or what would perform well in the market. And the people who are focusing on those things tend to not have an artist's/designer's eye and turn out glaringly unappealing slop. You are a a rare creator, which makes your content all the more valuable. Subscribed!
I think the main problem is its really really really hard to make games. So potentially someone has all that knowledge and planning but not the skill to make it actually be what they need it to be.
Yeah we have great ideas but not the skill to inact on them but the people that do put all their points into getting good at making games that they don’t have any points left in their creativity department
@@suitNtie22 Well one of the things is people want to make the game Gavin's talking about right away. Gavin himself made TONS of small games before CCC and he does say in his channel intro that you should have at least released a game, tried to apply all the marketing tips, the game flopped, and only then will his tips be useful. The actual majority of game devs are really hesitant to make simple games for a while first.
I absolutely love and appreciate your videos!
It would be amazing to see a video or series where you take a break from the hardcore topics and do something more casual, like scrolling through or playing random games on Steam while sharing your thoughts. It could also give real examples of all the topics we’ve been discussing.
Very interesting, can't wait to see your next videos on these topics. I feel like there really isn't enough information out there for how these things work, so I greatly appreciate that you are taking the time to explain what you found out through your own research and gamedev experience.
Marketability is everything! Everyone asks, "Oh how do I market?!" when they have absolutely 0 marketability. Have good, well written characters or striking character designs that make themselves the icons of the game. FNaF has Freddy a subversion of Chuck-E-Cheese, your Choo-Choo Charles is a subversion of Thomas the Tank Engine, Bendy is a Subversion of Mickey Mouse. Of course, you don't have to make a character be derivative for them to be marketable. For instance, Buckshot Roulette has the Dealer and Mouthwashing has Skinless Guy .™Every successful "Viral" game has a sort of icon character or characters to it that is memorable that sticks in the brains of viewers on the the homepage.
To get a game go viral you have to make a game first
Worst thing you could do is make a game then try to make it go viral. Design for virality from day 1.
@@ScientiaLudos Agree 100%. Don''t just make a video game, make a marketable one if you are not doing it as a hobby
Bro gave me reality check 😂
@@ScientiaLudosthis pertains to your last video, but you described me: a parent who works full time with opposite shifts from their wife.
I'm designing the game around virality, but I have no time to focus on marketing material. Along the way I want to record content so I can release devlogs closer to the the end stages of the game so I can avoid burnout / feeling rushed by viewers. Do you think this is an okay strategy or a little off-putting for the viewers?
Lol 💀
Personally, what appeals to me is the idea of making a game for a specific underserved audience rather than broad appeal. Will check out your video on niche games to see what the problem with doing that is. I don't want to make millions. $100k/year would be amazing. I guess if you shoot for the bullseye and miss, you still hit the target but if you aim for the edge and miss, well, you miss... hmm...
I'd never tell someone how much money they should want to make, or what their goal should be, but I can guarantee you, it's easier to make 1 million dollar game, than it is to make 10 100 thousand dollar games.
@@ScientiaLudos Yeah makes sense. But presumably to get to that million dollar game, you have to make a lot of small games beforehand before you really know if you're hitting those survival instincts, and just good game design.
Loving the topics you're tackling on this channel Gavin. We're listening
I feel like my current game will have a decently sized audience because I tailored it to an existing base of people who love two specific games.
but, my next game would definitely go viral, I'm sure I could do it.
I love your notes on this, especially with relatability to humanoid-type characters and locations. I also appreciate you speaking of the technical aspects of virality based on visibility on social media, that's such a big part of the puzzle.
A few things I also think add to virality.
1. One thing is taking an existing game that people love, and genre-blending it with something else that hasn't been seen. (it can't be too close to something else, sure it could work, but you want something distinct)
2. You need to make the whole hook, idea, feel, of the game instantaneously recognizable/understandable.
3. Is it something that players will want to show their friends?
4. Will the mechanics put you in funny (or unique and fun) scenarios?
5. Turn a genre on its head. Use irony as well.
Choo Choo Charles is an excellent example obviously. It's for people who love trains, survival games, and horror. The Charles is unique and doesn't need rails. It looks like a nightmare Thomas, which feels somewhat ironic since trains are usually seen as cute when personified. People get it instantly.
I can say squirrel with a gun and everyone knows what I'm talking about.
While it's certainly doable and reproducible, there will always be a certain amount of luck factor needed (time, place, people), but your chances are vastly better. Same with anything else, though.
Glad i found this channel! I appreciate these kinds of videos.
Would love to see a video series dedicated to making trailers, steam page etc. If you had a patreon for something like this or a course i would definitely buy it!
Great video, looking forward to the next
7:09 Game developer friends?? Who is he talking about?
😂
Dozens of game dev discord servers every game dev youtuber promotes in their channels :)
Whats ur thoughts on the opposite strategy of spaming,cross promoting similar games? There is like the 100 cat series etc on steam. Kinda opposite strategy or viral games, they abuse quanity over quality
cause theyre super easy to make, an artist just draws one picture with bunch of cats in it. programmer adds interactivity. boom theres a game
Marketing from day 1
As always, amazing video, thanks, and I'll tell you more, with all these insights, I'm going to create something amazing and comeback here to show how important are these topics that you address in your videos.
This all seems kind of vague. I think the answer to "What triggers a game to go viral?" is actually, in order or priority:
1. Give it amazing graphics or a unique (and appealing) art direction, or at the very least give it some shocking/memorable imagery (like a cool monster train, for example)
2. Give it a strong hook on top of the visual hook, an easily understandable idea that makes the largest amount of people possible to immediately say "omg that sounds amazing I want to play it" (like upgrading a train to escape or fight a monster train, for example)
3. Have the game design be as entertaining to watch and stream as it is to play (social deduction games like Among Us or "impossible" platforming games are good examples)
and with this list you will not get a viral game. your next line is "a good game sells itself"
@@JouunaasWhy not? Tell me of a game that matches all three items on the list that didn't go viral or tell me of a viral game that doesn't match at least 2 points of this list
Art is not the reason games go viral and the fact you put it 1st in order of priority means you are very mistaken about this.
@4e34e545e345w3 Art is the first thing you see about a game. It's the reason you click on a video, the reason you click on a game on Steam. Art is what brings people in. The other points are what make people stay. As I mentioned in the original comment at the very least you need an impactful image like the design of Choo Choo Charles or the poppy playtime monster, even if the rest of the art is low quality
@Danimita92 If you fall for clickbait art that's you. All people are not like you.
Stop assuming everyone reacts same like you do.
It's not the reason people play games, nor the reason to click on games.
And it's definitely not the main reason why games go viral. If that were the case, good majority of viral games would have to have distinct art style or thumbnail cover that catches the eye like you describe, but that is simply not the case.
Just take a look at the games that went viral, majority of them have nothing eye-catching or visually stunning.
Games can go viral for multitude of reasons, most common would probably be simple yet engaging game loop and getting promotion from any popular person or group of people.
You're totally of point here and projecting your taste on other people
and becareful about the scope of the game
looking forward to the vid on the 20+ mechanics!
Just now started playing choo choo Charles
Thank you so much
I was wondering if you have anything coming up for charles birthday this year? (say charles 2 right now or I swear to god)
Either bros actively trying to ignore these comments or he just doesn’t give a shit
Can we get your perspective on the difference in marketing for multiplayer vs single player? Would love to hear since you already did singleplayer and now trying multi.
Do you have specific youtubers in mind that are so big they're not running it as a business and just play games cause they're fun? I could use that list :D
Is this some sort of hidden acc?
Yeah very secret don’t tell anyone
comment for your comment section
The main thing which triggers a game to go viral is an idea, nothing else; choo choo charles only went viral because of the "Thomas Feeds" idea/character you copied and repurposed for your game nothing else, as most people say the game itself wasn't actually very good, it was only that character which attracted people and i think you're well aware of this. You won't have that success/virality again because it wasn't your idea to begin with and looking at your other games including your latest they don't look good, undoubtedly you may have some moderate success as you have now built a following but you really shouldn't be trying to give advice to people when you have very little experience and only had success due to using someone else's idea.
By this logic no one should ever be giving any advice to anyone.
@@RandomlyAwesomeGamer In terms of game dev you should have some decent professional experience behind you and a proven track record same as any serious profession, having a one hit wonder because you copied someone else's idea does not make you credible. I agree though 99% of people on youtube doing game dev seem to pretend they know what they're talking about but most the time are giving out really bad information.
@@julok-xw2mw It not just about that character, his most popular video was just showing off the train in game, the drivable train. And you are calling him out saying all this stuff, saying everyone doesnt know what they're talking about, do you know what you're talking about? should i listen to someone who can't even be a one hit wonder? and you say he has very little experience, what is your experience? Lurking r/gamedev and giving other people advice?
@julok-xw2mw how much experience does someone need before they can give advice? Gavin has been making and publishing games for over ten years. He has at least 9 games on steam right now, and he’s published on other platforms as well. He runs a successful UA-cam channel, understands game marketing, and has demonstrated competency with all aspects of the indie game business. To say that he has very little experience is just uninformed.
More specifically he was piggybacking on the already existing meme format that is thomas the tank engine/kids cartoon character being made scary/humorous. Another example of this is that film Winnie the pooh Blood and Honey. If there was some way of describing that as a more general bit of advice would be "A funny edgy gimmick that tickles people's interest", which applies to something like squirrel with a gun or Helldivers.
i mean if you want a guaranteed viral game, then make a good game, there is no objectively good game that isn't viral
"But what about X"
Whatever game you think deserves more players than it currently has is merely subjectively good (to a very niche audience or you specifically)
fuck designing "viral" games, just make a good game. it's like Among Us, that game had a very low player count for a long time before people discovered it, it was an objectively good game so it exponentially grew with no actual marketing. Not because it was designed for virality, it was literally just simply an objectively good game.
thats just wrong, he defined what viral means in this video and thats billions of views online. Making a good game is not going to just get you that virality. And it isnt a pick or choose, you dont pick either a good game or a viral game, you make a good game but also do your research so it has the potential to go viral. Ok imagine among us, they made it but it wasnt multiplayer, it was a challenge game vs bots, like a puzzle game. Would that have gone viral, hell no. Making good games is simply not enough, it just isnt, you shouldnt have to rely on a streamer randomly playing your game years after launch.
and yes you can just ignore virality and make a good game and it does good, but at that point you are just leaving it up to luck
@@VodySly You literally just proved my point in your own reply?
If Among Us was a challenge game vs bots, like a puzzle game, it would have simply not been objectively a good game, because it would have lacked any substance. therefor it would have never gone viral
As i said, Good game = naturally Viral game.
@@luckyboy5nu Is that a point? Im genuinley confused how you can twist something like that.
Like your argument is just wrong, there are entire discussions online about hidden gems, you know what hidden gems mean, it means really good games that never went viral.
@@VodySly as i said in my original comment, hidden gems are simply subjectively good games that appeal to a niche audience, that which is a hidden gem to me, might just be another crappy game to you and vice versa
in contrast, an objectively good game will naturally "go viral" because it is appealing not to just a niche audience.
at this point i'm just reiterating the same thing over and over again so please read and interpret what im saying so i don't have to put it in another way for you again.
@@luckyboy5nu Okay but what about you make an objectively good game and no one plays it. You can make the greatest game ever made, nothing comes close, but if you put it in a tin box, and bury it 8ft underground, it won't just magically go viral. Maybe you need to go back and reread. It isn't a viral game or a good game, making a game viral is a part of the game. Like I said before, if you remove the viral factor of among us, it wouldn't have happened.
Viral Games need to be interesting and more appealing. Good Games Generally Are This And That's Why Good Games Are Hugely Popular. Cause No DUH, The Most Viral Games Online are going to be good games, same way the top 100 IMDB are going to be good movies.
Your argument is literally just, all cars in Nascar are fast, so if you just make a fast car your Car will be in Nascar. This is the most surface level take you can possibly have. Oh the top 100 read books of this decade are good books, WhAt WhO CoUlD HaVe FoRsEen ThIs?!?!
Yes dude, good games do better than bad games, thank god you figured it out else who else would've, we're lucky to be in the same timeline as this marvelous mind.
What's wrong with that door?