Thieves' Cant || D&D with Dael Kingsmill
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- Опубліковано 17 чер 2024
- This time on MonarchsFactory I'm sharing how I integrate the rogue feature Thieves' Cant into my Dungeons and Dragons campaign as a cool way to feed plot hooks to a party rogue.
WordPress is doing me dirty right now so I couldn't post to the blog. Instead I went to the trouble of making a pretty thing that I actually proofread that you can give to your players if you want without being embarrassed: homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/s...
Write-ups on GM Binder:
Chrome: www.gmbinder.com/share/-LYAYr...
Mobile/Not Chrome: www.gmbinder.com/share/-LleFP...
Russian translation by @ixdeadbeef on twitter:
homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/s...
Thieves' Cant Reddit Post: / oh_yes_thieves_can_cant
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Music is Scheming Weasel and Sneaky Snitch by Kevin MacLeod of incompetech.com/ - Комедії
"There's no such thing as a thieve's guild in my game"
That's what the thieves' guild WANTS you to believe :P
@Corvus Morve Yes the king wants you to visit Lake Logai
For historical precedent, check out thief hunter generals
Or just flavor it as a VERY shady locksmith guild.
@Konnor Jakob wtf why
It a legitimate organization of creative entrepreneurs that broker the redistribution of goods and information for clients who value discretion.
When the thieves' guild is so good at hiding that even the DM doesn't know about them
I dunno, if thieves cant, paladins might, or clerics will.
DEinarsson lol
Druids wood
LOL - 😀👊
Someone is winning at life.
Fighters swing baby!
*proceeds to steal this for his own game*
*proceeds to beg DM for implementing*
Even though I am a lawful good fighter.
edit: because I am thoughtful of our rogue player, I never violate the law, pay the court a fine or serve out my sentence.
You could still use it as a lawful good character. Just think of them as an informant.
Can't spell stealthing without stealing.
I love the idea of the honest stranger wearing two rings, being too socially awkward to admit to not knowing the stranger who seems to know them and their kids, accidentally hiring an assassin to take out their butcher.
"So how is old swindolfoot these days?"
"Not so good, I'm afraid. He passed away about a month ago. Got a little too... Well, lets just say his ambitions finally got the better of him. Sad really. I always liked the old sod."
"Too bad. His family is well taken care of though, I hope."
"That's the worst of it. Not taking any handouts... Living mostly on principals these days."
"Hmmm. Sorry to hear that. Can't eat principals."
"Well, you know what they say; if you stand by principals long enough, you're sure to be rewarded."
"And you believe it?"
"Doesn't matter what I think. When your back is to the wall and the floor falling from beneath you, you either grab onto something or nothing at all. ...but enough of that. What do you say to a game of cards with a couple of old friends later?"
"I always did love cards... Friends too if they're the right sort."
"Hehehh Good! Meet me in the upper room on the southeast side after we've had time to put the kids to bed. ...and don't wake the dogs. Theyre a pain to put down and thier barking causes all kinds of trouble."
What's the interpretation of this? I got most of it, but I think I might be missing some pieces (the kids and dogs for instance). I take it this would be for a very difficult job with no specified payment, but the promise of some kind of reward afterward.
@@MacroAggressor "kids" or "children" are usually code for gold or valuables.
"dogs" are code for guards
@@MacroAggressor from what I gather it's "hey got a job?" "yeah, but a dangerous one" "does it pay well?" "there is a chance for a big reward, but it's not certain. Are you interested?" "I am" "Good, meet me at night (this is the when we put the kids to sleep) and don't alert the guards".
@@Zakiel97 I took it to mean no pay just what you can steal or the guild will owe you a favor, something along those lines
I just got to the first critical role episode with the leaky tap and Matt mentioned two better dressed people playing a game of cards and I immediately just remembered this video and was like "someone is either getting info or hiring for some illicit caper"
Instead of cards, we talk about foods.
soup / soupkitchens are safe places, candy is stuff for pick pockets; big meals are big scores (usually burglary); medicines are assassination works. Sweet indicates easy and bitter stuff indicates danger.
"Hi, I'm new in town, you wouldn't happen to know a place where I can get some soup?"
"Oh, yeah, 2nd street on the right, there's a nice little tavern that makes a nice tomato soup. What type you fancy?"
"Oh, I'm actually not that much of a soup drinker. I'm a sucker for cany, actually. But I'm in town with reservations in this littel restorant, not to far from the mayor's house. 7 course meal, this thurseday."
"Oh, I know the place, but seriously mate, I've heard of people who ate there, and buy, the food tasted bitter ! "
I actually really liked how in the skyrim thieves guild used the "hobo symbol" thing
Actually, yeah! They kept it really simple and straight forward, and if you learnt a few of them you could extrapolate the meaning of most of them from there. I miss my Riften days, you've made me all nostalgic.
And they're put to use around the game! Saved me a lot of trouble to recognize them
I totally did not realise this was a thing. But then again I don't roleplay as a thief very often. Hobosymbols are kinda cool.
Shadowmarks
@@MonarchsFactory fun fact, in case you didn't know, you can actually see symbols on the player home, if you don't own it, it's listed as empty, if you own it but aren't a member, you become a mark, then if you join, you become guarded
I enjoy the idea of a rogue running up to a potential member of the trade and saying "Whoo boy, aren't you a sight for sore eyes." being met with a very serious and immediate "Come, join for me a drink." and both just meandering to the side to be properly hidden.
Also on the converse "Aren't you a sight for sore eyes." met with "Who are you?" and then... "Well... shoot, my bad gotta run!"
In my game the rogue indicates he's about to talk in cant, and then we rp a normal conversation, subtexted by what he's really saying. Everyone around hears the rogue and the barkeep, for example, talking about the potency of the ale and the turn of the weather, but really they're setting up a secret meeting between the PC and another NPC from the underbelly.
That's kind of how I do it, too. Sometimes the play comes up with his own special theives cant-ie flair, and I just roll with it as though it's always existed in the world. I don't have anything "special" made up, though.
Like on "Whose Line Is It, Anyway?" when Colin and Ryan do the Noir sketch, they have some dialogue, and then one turns towards the camera and explains his motivations or actions, then returns to dialogue.
Not with that attitude they can't.
I absolutely could not help myself.
god i'm glad you're top comment because i was about to type up the same thing
So what you're saying is you can't help yourself
Now we need to hear your take on the Druid language.
I figure it's written like Ogham script.
Whaaaaa huhuhu eeek eeek kraaaa whaaa hu eeek meeeeeehhh-- Shithead Goblins down the creek yo' bitchass fella
Sometimes thieves' cant is just about finding certain keywords and then you can improvise from there. Cats and dogs being code for thieves' and guards. If one thief who just traveled into town says "Is it me or are the dogs in this town unusually loud? feels like there are thousands of them" the other thief might respond with "maybe, but at night it's actually the cats that are the loudest". One might then then deduce that the first question is, how active are the guards in the city to which he's responded with not more active than what the thieves can manage. It can be rather intuitive from there. Like what does it mean if one guy says the cats and dogs fight a lot or that the cats usually outruns the dogs? What does it mean when one guys says many of the dogs in the city are owned by cat lovers?
It might feel super easy to decode, but that's kinda the point. Realistically. such a cant would be decoded too easily by authorities, but it simply serves as light version of functional thieves' cant where players don't have to learn a lot before they can improvise the rest.
Oh and this is not me claiming to know better. This is me coming up with ideas inspired by your video so well done.
An interesting thing to note is that it doesn't need to stand up to the scrutiny of the law, as lawmen would scarcely be hearing it. It just needs to sound enough like a normal, plausible conversation for the laymen that overhear it to not pay it any mind. So the ham-fisted analogies between things like cats and dogs or obviously back-and-fourth about ages or number of children doesn't seem like much of an issue here.
Now, if the thieves needed to have said conversation through the bars of a prison cell or some other scenario where lawmen are present, they'd have to get much craftier.
saw a mad dog chasing a cat down the alley, hope the cat finds a way free = guards on the prowl, get out of sight.
my cousin wrote to me how is your cousin oh he said he is bringing in some sacks of grain he should bring them to the old warehouse at the docks /// something along those lines could be used to locate a fence for stolen goods.
Another thing I also like is the idea of the rogue just nonchalantly incorporating slang from thieves' cant into the way he speaks occasionally confusing the party wizard.
"Gotta hand it to ya, Wiz. You're wicked sipper alright"
"Pardon?"
"A sipper! y'know, an informant? Intel broker? Someone who knows a lot and sometimes won't shut up about it?"
"First, rude. Second, why in all realms of existence would you call that a 'sipper?"
"Because you gossip. 'Sip. You're a 'sipper"
"How is anyone supposed to connect the word 'sip with intelligence broker?!"
"They're not. That's the point, Wiz. Man, some times you can really be a meath"
"A WHAT?!"
Fits best with the rogue who's just too used to his isolated bubble of fellow criminals who know the lingo. That's why I don't use it for my current rogue. He's too concerned about blending in.
Or, for an assassination:
"Well well well, it's been too long mate"(Fake intro)
"Right on that, it HAS been too long"(confirmation)
"Yeah well, could you pick something up from the butcher's for me?"(assassination request)
"Of course, of course, anything for a friend!"(confirmation)
"Yeah, could you get me a...(Rabbit-Another criminal Pig-An officer of the law, guards and shit Boar-A member of the military or king's guard or such Deer/Doe(male/female)-A member of the upperclass Stag-A REALLY rich person etc.)"
"Yeah, it'll cost about six gold"(six-hundred gold, what he'll pay)
"Really? I thought he raised his prices to ten gold for a....(Rabbit, Boar, Pig, etc.)"(haggling)
"Nah, not THAT high, probably eight"(haggling continues)
"Yeah, you're right, I do think it's eight"(agreement on eight-hundred gold)
"So, I'll need this done by next Wednesday"(due date set)
"Ok, but what'll you need this for? You bringing guests or just for you and your family?"(checking if it has to do with a crime family or syndicate, or if it's just something he wants done)
"Oh, it's for.....(My Family and I-Himself Some friends and I-Crime syndicate or gang For Some Family Coming Over-Crime family)"
"Great, who's coming over?"(Trying to figure out who he works for)
"Oh my Uncle Kassim's coming over all the way from Posha"(In my world, Kassim's the leader of a very large crime family in Posha, which is a megacity much like Mexico City or Rio)
When I have rogues in my games, I'll just play it naturally to effect another roguish presence by using evocative colloquialisms and metaphor in the predominant language to imply something. It's actually really intuitive.
Say my rogue is getting information on job location. "Ah, right ripe grapes at the Vinter's this time of year. View over the carriage house into the valley from the estate is incredible. Just be mindful you stay on the tour path, some kettles in the place heavy enough to crush a man!"
I'm sure the rogues out there take the meaning! Ups your GM cred considerably.
Jobman: Yo remember that recipe I told you about i said 8 whole eggs right? I can't remember.
Jobdoman: I'm pretty sure you said 7 whole eggs.
Jobman: Really? Or wait no I think I added an egg yolk aswell so 7 whole eggs and an egg yolk.
Jobdoman: Yeah that sounds about right.
Rest of the party: Dafuq since when can our drow Roque bake?!
That's so much fun definitely gonna use that from now on in my campaigns!!
Wizard: That's a whole lot of cholesterol!
@@Jza_Dragon THATS A LOTTA DAMAGE
Bard: Now I'm craving crepes.
In my setting, Jobdoman is now official thieves cant lingo
pretty sure this is why rogues get SO. MANY. SKILLPOINTS! -> or whatever the 5e variant of that is
Love the “Leaky Tap” Critical Role reference!
Really relate to those Australian accent Thieve's Carnt Thieves' Cehnt feels
I saw this as like the critical role sense with nott and Caleb having many different cons they run so one can shout stuff like “mothers love” “modern literature” etc
"I NEED SOME GOOD _MODERN LITERATURE_ RIGHT NOW!"
//Nott appears to immediately shoot him in the chest to the rest of the party's dismay//
I love this! Also I have the idea stuck in my head of a rogue just trying to get his first job and asking "oh how's Dorian?" And getting the response "he's dead" and the rouge just turns away and walks out of the building slowly picking up the pace.
Grandma would not approve of Lockpickers
But what if Grandma use to be a Rogue in her day? What better way to find out? lol.
this one knows the truth of grandma, she is a silver tongue, no?
A good idea for speaking Thieves Cant is to have the player use "real world" slang, and ONLY slang(kind of difficult to do!) - breaking the 4th wall a bit but creating a good sense of understanding common language, but not comprehending the meaning behind it. :D
my man out here 0 likes for 2 years its all aight i liked your comment
@@Nolan-yp7vl i dont leave comments to get likes :P
Apples and Pears, Apples and Pears
Ive Given my Players who took the Criminal background or Charlatan Background (Basically if they are in that trade) the ability to learn Thieves’ Cant and of course rouges. I then gave them select words they would know in the language, Symbols they’d know and specific sounds and knocks. From there we’ve had fun making a secret language that only the Thieves’ of the party really know and me the DM, its added a really cool element to the roleplaying experience and makes it a lot of fun when in tense situations or battles to start saying key phrases tactically.
"We're in Barney. Barney Rubble? Trouble!" -Basher (It'll be nice working with proper villains again.)
I have a rogue in my party who needs to communicate with the Underbelly discreetly, to this will really help both of us!
I can't get over how lucky Dael's players must be that she goes to this level of thought in her world building.
"The varied trades" is a beautiful euphemism, and these systems you've come up with for collecting information and hiring a rogue are genius.
I was working on the ins and outs of the thieves guild in my last campaign[1]. I didn't get my design as far along as I wanted to which was fine 'cus he got kicked out after the second session[2]. Anywho the greeting was asking about a lost dog. The name confirmed your position in the guild and where (and when) they saw it would set up a meeting. It worked pretty well while it lasted.
1) The rogue wanted one so the rogue got one.
2) There was a vampire involved. And a partial mind wipe. And the death of an old woman. And an unfortunate tattoo. Its a long story.
Meanwhile, warriors have their own secret way of talking... with their fists!
Seriously though, that's some really cool world building. You're so thorough about it, it's quite impressive.
This. Was. Brilliant.
I refer you as well to the Oceans (11,12,13) series of movies where Thieves Cant came into play to describe scams or methods.
I’d also recommend you look up prison or gang tattoos and their meaning. You might find this enlightening in developing a visual Thieves Cant.
Love this.
Your family reference to jobs and pay is genius and will indeed be stolen by THIS guy...
"Off the top of my head, I'd say you're looking at a Boeski, a Jim Brown, a Miss Daisy, two Jethros and a Leon Spinks, not to mention the biggest Ella Fitzgerald ever."
Really good video, thank you for this!
"Oh. I'm rude again."
"Let's get a kick on the rolly-o, so the bish won't lift the veil, yeah?" Using the one from my campaign, that means, "We need to move the current in-city camp, to keep the law enforcement officers from finding us."
"Don't have the berries for the wine, gotta get some more bushes." You're gonna need more men for that, gonna need more money.
bishes get stitches.
My boss is going to think I've finally lost it when I start referring to him as jobman.
I have the best rogue in the party I'm DMing for. The most amazing thing is that she never played before, and it's so much fun to witness her discoveries in thievery. Now that they finally arrived in a large city, I introduced the Cant in the campaign, but you have much better ideas here! I'm so going to steal this!
Kept pausing the video to practice and take notes lol. This is something I'll definitely have to develop for my own world.
In my world I have always assumed thieves cant to be something like this but with the addition of a form of sign language included so that the rogue could have a normal conversation on the surface and be having a completely different conversation in reality.
I love that this leaves room for an accidental thieves cant conversation. A rogue approaches and feigns familiarity and the awkward party member just agrees and goes along with it
You. Are. A. GENIUS.
TAKE MY MONEY AND GIVE ME A PDF OF ALL THIS GOOD STUFF.
Careful I hear her prices are highway robbery
"the varied trades" is the best name ever. Definitely stealing that. I have to say this is the most mature and best implemented rules of any of your DND stuff so far.
9:24 If anything, my one take away from this is that I'm canonising "rude as a lock pick" as a phrase in my vocabulary now.
This is the most amazing homebrew anything I've ever heard of! Most DMs I know just pass notes while they're talking
"Varied Trades." I really like that. It's so simple yet so euphemistic.
I love that this could be happening at the table without the other players even knowing. Totally stealing this!
I wasn't going to comment but I'll be twice damned, this was done really well & got me excited to use this in my own game thank you very much for sharing I look forward to seeing some more of your work!
17:05 my grandma just called me up sounding really confused, I just told her to watch it again and take notes this time.
This is honestly genius. The haggling part of the conversation between employer and employee was mind blowing. It makes the players feel cool for knowing a language the others wouldn't know, and it makes role-playing have a SERIOUS impact on a mission. Amazing.
In my setting, thieves’ cant translates to more of a SWAT hand signal. I’d they’re on a job, sometimes talking is the difference between being made or not. If they need to talk about illegal activities outside to their guild mates, they just use sending stones. Magic channels can’t be intercepted by the law ;)
I suppose they could, but it depends on where in the world. More magic flying around makes individual "strands" harder to detect". In a big city might even need a scry to pinpoint a specific signal
If they rely on sending stones makes the vengeance paladin's job so much easier. "I cast Locate Object to find a sending stone" (this is more useful if they have captured one of the stones). Or any class with detect magic can search for evocation sources (sending is an evocation spell) to find their first stone to then give to the paladin.
@@vampdan in a world where common thieves can get ahold of enough stones to make this practical, I'd imagine they would be very common and you can't just walk up to someone and steal their stuff for no reason.
This was such an interesting view! I loved every second and you're so brilliant for this
I love everything here, including the "Varied Trades" and the very simplistic names that sound like street folk stuff, it's so subtle
Always love your DnD advice, how are you so good at this, goddamn
Good lord, this is brilliant! I can't believe how much thought you've put into this!
Loved these suggestions, thank you for sharing.
I just suggested you in a D&D post for people looking for DM advice and you just uploaded D&D related video. Nice timing!
Love your D&D videos, they really help me figure out fun aspects for my sessions :D
I love these ideas! Always excited to add new tools to my arsenal
I Really Love this idea you’ve created!
it feels very real and could be used really well in the game as the rouge learns more about the trade there in! Great Video!
Very very well thought out. Love your take on this.
This was great and I love this application of it.
wonderfully done! this is so fascinating! you are an incredible dm!
every single one of these insights to your dming is just absolutely fantastic Dael. Well done!
so effortlessly engaging. i'm loving your channel and that since i'm new here there's literally years worth of content to catch up on
This is really smashing, it adds a lot of chewy flavor. Nice work.
This is exactly what I needed. Thank you!
Your enthusiasm is amazing
The amount of verisimilitude that you bring to the game is just beautiful.
Oh this is definitely finding it’s way into my campaign. Loved it!
I love this so much. Thanks so much for the tips! Very inspiring for play ^-^
Youve earned a new sub. This was detailed, informative, and fun! Personality is top notch too! Cant wait to watch more.
This was a great video. Seriously, so many ideas for my game. Thanks a Deal.
i love these dnd and gm type vids. lots of good ideas to incorporate into our campaigns. please do more!
I am utterly charmed by all of this.
This is absolutely brilliant, through and through. Not only because RPing it infront of the other, uninformed party members, would be extremely fun, but also because it thematically makes SO much more sense the typical cockney rhyming slang interpretation most people take. You version sounds completely believable and innocuous, so can be shared loudly in public, whilst cockney rhyming slang is obviously gobbledygook to all around so would arouse suspicion. The double-banded jewelry is such a good idea too because it strikes the perfect balance between subtle and obvious, as well as being easy to hide at short notice. Fantastic job!
"Yes, you can pick up the WATCH at MIDNIGHT. The WATCH. The Chinese WATCH. Yes, that's the one. Goodbye .... MOTHER."
(nearby Paladin -- Hmm, that's not at all suspicious)
You are brilliant. Loved this video!
this is a goldmine
This is sooooo good! I'm going to try to incorporate this in both my campaigns.
This is so fun and clever! I will definitely find ways to incorporate these into my games!
I love the intricacies of your "thieves cant" so much it just became apart of my world, thx for sharing!!
This is really good stuff, I think my players will love it. Thx for the advice.
I usually really enjoy your videos, but this is one of my favorites! AND you made the homebrew doc SO PRETTY!
Wow, this is incredibly helpful! I love how RP heavy this is instead of just "I say in thieves can't..."
This. Is. Awesome. Thanks for the great ideas, Dael!
This is an awesome video! Thanks Dael! I had never really thought about how to make thieves cant useful but these were awesome, flavorful ideas! Great job!
Kudos for the attention to detail.
This video is AMAZING. Just subscribed
I love this. Its also really made me want to play a rogue now. Thanks for this insight and general inspiration!!
Thank you so much for this knowledge, this helps to understand thieves cant so much more
Love this. Absolutely going to incorporate it into my campaign.
Brilliant use of Thieves Cant. Love this.
It was a very fun and inspiring video!
This is excellent! Gives a great framework to use in roleplaying. Thanks!
love your explanation about thieves' cant
I love how organic your take on this is. top tier well done
Really creative! I've been DMing for years and you always have such rich original ways of looking at things. I never would have thought of this! Thanks for the videos!
I LOVE this way of running thieves cant! I had always felt like it was a little lacking and this is the perfect fix!
I LOVE this, I'm totally stealing it for my games. Subbed for future D&D content. Thank you :D
Loved this episode. ^^ Learned a lot.~
Absolutely wonderful vid! You have brought so much more to my table with this advice. My rogue player has been asking about it for a bit now I got something to give him! Thank you!
Great video! I am strongly tempted to use this in my next campaign. I especially like the card game idea.
This is excellent. It's simple, evocative, cool, clear, makes rogues feel special. 10/10
I love this. Will definitely use in my next game!
I actually ran a session a few weeks ago where our Aaracockra Rogue used thieves cant. She was looking for someone to forge a letter for a trade agreement. We played out the conversation over the course a conversation about "looking for a fisherman". IT WAS AWESOME.
I like this. It's easier than the Reddit post that I too had seen more recently. Yours is better.