The Spanish Inquisition: Spain's "Black Legend"
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- Опубліковано 24 вер 2019
- Spain became a byword for cruelty during the 16th and 17th centuries. Professor Ryrie will explore this dark history and highlight some forgotten areas.
A lecture by Alec Ryrie, Gresham Professor of Divinity
25 September 2019 6PM BST
www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-an...
Spain became a byword for cruelty in much of Europe in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, whether it was the brutality of American colonisation, the tyranny of the Spanish Inquisition or the horrors of the Eighty Years’ War in the Netherlands. This lecture will survey this ‘black legend’ and ask what made it so enduring - and why some parts of the story, such as the Inquisition’s genocidal campaign against Spanish Jews, received so much less attention than others.
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Amazing to hear a non Catholic scholar speak in a fair and unbiased way about the Catholic Church.
Very likely he’s also a non Taoist!
He could have fooled me.
Assuming humans are capable of total objectivity (which is a contradiction in itself) criticism isn't about "fairness". It is about data. Otherwise it is just another opinion, no matter how sophisticated. My two cents.
I agree. I am an historian of a different era of religious dissension and have been both impressed by the learning of current scholarship on the English Reformation and also depressed by how partisan it is (e.g. Duffy versus McCulloch). Professor Ryrie manages so often to see behind the partisanship.
True.
He did a really great job highlighting the hypocrisy of and exaggeration by Protestant countries promoting a bigoted view of Catholicism and Spaniards, without dismissing or diminishing the real horrors visited on Iberian Jews and Conversos. I’m impressed.
Me too, the lecturer did a magnificent job of being unbiased with his presentation.
Well 99% truth is still a lie 100% of the time. 😉
Iberian Muslims were the main targets. They were the biggest group of victim, as they were the majority.
no one is saying spain did not comited crimes.
only that the english in both the inquisición times and during the discovery of america, much worsr than the spaniards.
And the pro anglo propaganda is coming down with a venganza.
lol
I am not. Just read up on the Catholic extermination of the Cathars in Southern France.
Thanks from Spain. You cannot imagine what it is to know that you are discriminated against by the dominant culture, for having been born in the country that lost the battle for hegemony three centuries ago. Perhaps the worst of all is that today, we Spaniards ourselves are believing all those ideas about our alleged cruelty, racial inferiority and inhumanity, and in our own country, there are proliferating those who think that they will free themselves from this negative image and its prejudices if they tear into pieces the old Spain.
You poor, poor people! Perhaps if you didn't spend most of the working day having a nice siesta you'd be more of a global power on the world today.
Pues lo empezó un español fray bartolomé de las casas, algo sabría o que?
Spain, compared to the Anglo-saxons that came later, was a center of societal rationality, especially with the Habsburgs.
@@s31720
That's such a prejudiced, racist and hispanophobic statement that I don't even know why I bother to answer. I'll just tell you that your answer denotes a total ignorance about Spain and the Spaniards.
@@johnnypickles5256 Sí, claro Fray Bartolomé de las Casas y Antonio Pérez fueron dos de los Españoles que dieron las primeras ideas respecto a la Leyenda Negra. Ambos tenían sus motivos. En el caso de las Casas, parece que le molestaban mucho los malos tratos a los indígenas americanos, pero nada en absoluto los que pudieran causarse a los esclavos africanos. Un análisis detallado de sus escritos, ha hecho sospechar a los psiquiatras que padecía algún tipo de neurosis. Con todo, lo que se dice en esta conferencia, no es que los españoles no cometieran ninguna atrocidad, si no que no cometieron más que otros pueblos y que a pesar de eso han pasado a la historia como crueles e infrahumanos, lo cual no tiene sentido si no es porque el mundo protestante (que derrotándolos se hizo con la hegemonía mundial), tenía especial interés en desacreditar por completo a lo hispano y de paso a lo católico.
Just as a curiosity, the Inquisition in Spain was the first to officially end witchcraft trials in Europe.
Another one, the Papal States had the lowest number of witch trials in all of Europe.
Yeah. Catholicism denied the existence of magic
It was the removal of alkemetic or moorish science to take the narrative nd control alchemy the science the mason took an made their own.
@@sualtam9509 How you can be lower than zero.
No it wasn't witch craft..it was hewbrews they persecuted
From a Spanish citizen, thank you very much. Great lecture.
For what exactly? The Black Legend is a well-documented fact in history that still exists to this day, but Alec Ryrie denies it while keeps perpetuating anti-Spanish and anti-Catholic political propaganda. He's a fraud.
The first European genocide of the modern age, the massacre of the Vendée, seems to have been totally ignored by modernity. Around 170,000 Vendéans, many women and children, were systematically liquidated by the Revolutionary Army. Yet, it is almost unknown, unnoticed in the world.
Extraordinary the similarities between the persecution of the Catholic Vendeans by the atheistic revolutionary armies and the persecution of the Huguenots by the Catholics during the French Wars of Religion of the 16th century. Modern estimates for the number of dead across France following the St Bartholomew's Day massacre vary widely, from 5,000 to 30,000. Obviously there is a difference in scale but that may reflect also changes in population. If you go back further to the time of the Albigensian crusade in the 12th century At least 200,000 to at most 1,000,000 Cathars were killed by the French Catholic armies. It seems that the French have a penchant for this sort of thing
That’s because nowadays being white means you can never ever be a victim 🤷🏻♂️ not even in history
1,000,000 Cathars???
@@whitepanties2751 la inquisición es una creación FRANCESA, y su función fué la de castigar a esos cismáticos herejes de los Cátaros. Por tanto la inquisición no era sólo Española, sino también era propia de muchos otros países, caso de las brujas de SALEM.
@@whitepanties2751 it's a made up number lol
Minor observation; when the speaker says that Spanish laws concerning the conversos was a precursor to anti Semitism, he could have mentioned that by this time there weren't Jewish communities left in the rest of Europe. Seems odd to discuss the roots of anti-Semitism by focussing on the last country to actually have Jews left, don't you think.
When Spain finally decided to expel Jewish people who refused to convert, Italy, England and France applauded the decision. It was written about as if medieval Spain was finally entering modernity. Spain had been viewed by them as backwards precisely for harbouring religious minorities. There were rumours in Italy claiming Queen Isabel was part Jewish .. How else could she possibly be protecting Jews? But, yes, tell me again how Spanish views were a precursor to antisemitism.
La película 1492, El descubrimiento de América, comienza en Salamanca, ciudad castellana con la tercera universidad más antigua de Europa, centro de conocimiento durante la Edad Media, donde unos fanáticos con acento mexicano están quemando brujas, por su puesto, producción británica. Este es un buen resumen del trabajo de propaganda realizado especialmente por los ingleses y los holandeses, contra la potencia mundial que se prolongó durante casi 300 años, el Imperio Español. Hechos que sucedieron hace más de 500 años, mal documentados, después de los cuales ha habido mucho tiempo para poner y quitar. Débil esbozo de la realidad. Una vez más, los ingleses tuvieron que ser los que dieran su versión de nuestra propia historia. Y lo malo es que luego, como siempre, la opinión pública mundial se lo cree.
La gente que cree en estas afirmaciones son incultos o mal documentados.
Salamanca es una ciudad leonesa repoblada por leoneses
Ahora ya no hace falta ese cien, basta con ver algunos vídeos de pseudo-historiadores en youtube sobre leyenda negra como un tal crash ...abominable lo que dice sobre los españoles y por extensión a los hispanos con casi 10 millones de visualizaciones. Y borra los comentarios desacreditando con datos lo que ha puesto, como los míos por ejemplo .
Ah so sad. What a victims you are...
@@anonjan82 La verdad es la verdad, la diga Agamenón o su porquero.
Great exposition of what the Inquisition was actually like. It seems like there is a definite drive and motivation to what atrocities are presented before us. We always need empathy and compassion, but we must also see when atrocities are used to direct our anger and common struggle for questionable purposes.
And therefore even the holy holocaust story must be debatable and be questionable, and not be accepted automatically as a 100% true story, because much of it could be propaganda. Yet, Ryrie only mentions "the holocaust denier", so he is as much subjective and politically correct as a historian as anyone else.
The kind of professor I hoped I would find at my university. Articulate, knowledgable and able to explain in detail and context the subject matters he's teaching. Out of nearly 20 professors I had in my stint at my college, only 2 were near his level. Thanks to the Internet I'm able to learn some very interesting stuff from really top notch professors!
I can feel not only his passion and expertise on the subject, but I can feel his enthusiasm for wanting us (the “students”) to really understand the complexities of the time and want us to feel immersed in that era. I am riveted to my seat during his lectures ❤️
Go read my post this Professor left out a whole bunch of history.
The Black Legend....or how English, Dutch , French,etc.. expressed their jealousy of the Spanish Empire, the Potential Power during 4 centuries
Elvira Roca: "many students ask me how was possible that all that wonderful Empire felt down and collapsed in very short time, and I always try to explain to them that the real miracle was to mantain that enormous Empire along 300 years". The french envy is legendary, they are very clever but, at the same time, they are not able to explain how they couldn't build and Empire being as wonderful and intelligent as they are. The myth of Black Legend made by dutch and english was a mere political propaganda...which unfortunately for Spain and Southamerica still remains to these days
Well said
@@carlossimancas9867 I think french loosed the technogical Contests towards England.England was the first Land which let the medieval System behind..That Newton was born in England wasnt a random event.England had allready had the scientists Background for the later economycal and technological boom.The steam engine invention taking place in England,again, was not an accident.If you wach the ' history of precision',on you tube, how amazing the modern Industry crutial Elements, that time, was invented in England, it become clear where the perfect fertile ground all kind of industrial discoveriers were,as center of power.I can remember how the english minister had taken very inspired decision to placate all war see ships with cooper plate,very expensive thing..As the result french loosed their american colonies.This is a warning how politics science and technology drive nations up/ down..China seems to be the next Champion,..seems...
@@cristianpopescu78 Freedom, science, law, commerce and prosperity, militar power, optimism....were always the main ingredients to build an empire. It is not a coincidence if you study the histpry of Greece, Rome, Spain, England and United States.
On point!
I grew up as a Catholic in 1950s Blackpool, N W England and ran a gauntlet of scruffy kids on our way back from school being slapped, spat at, school hats thrown in the gutter and called dirty catholics.
I have even seen vitriolic anti catholic comments (often with little relevance to the article they comment on) in papers such as the Daily Telegraph before I stopped reading it a few years ago.
Anti Catholicism is still alive in Britain but in England probably dying out with my generation. Though still alive in parts of Scotland and N Ireland of course.
I hope you’re still practicing the faith
I'm very skeptical of white anglo saxon protestants as they're referred to in the U.S., now calling catholics fellow christians because of the anti catholic sentiment over the last century resulting in the lynchings of Irish, Italians, and Mexicans.
Go read my post
In Kennedy's campaign 1960 a person: "not vote Kennedy for what Pope ruled over we"
Sorry for my english
@@angelmoreno6577It is so funny that the real separation State- Church is in tbe Catholic Church, protestantism is State= Church
In Spain, the number of women executed for witchcraft was ...59. Compare that to Germany or England. Seems to me that you would rather be judged for heresy by the Spanish Inquisition than by their European equivalents. That has something to do with the strict procedural nature of the Spanish Inquisition, which was better at guaranteeing one's rights at that time and age, than some of the other equivalent religious courts in Europe.
You can add that that trend came directly from the North, and was not happening in Spain for the longest time.
It entered Spain and was put an end soon.
@@xmaverickhunterkx Jews were first killed, persecuted, and expelled from England in 1290- from Yorkshire if we believe Benjamin Netanyahu. And hundreds faceless and nameless were tortured and disappeared during the Tudor police state. Not all civilized rectifiers during this brutal period of European history came from the north.
It is very difficult to distinguish a witch from a Spanish woman.
@@baltasarmelchor935pero en España es bastante fácil distinguir a un gilipollas
Can you make playlists that group the lectures by the same speakers together?
The "Black Legend" is a term long used by Spanish writers to denote the ancient body of propaganda against the Iberian peoples which began [sic] in sixteenth century England and has since been a handy weapon for the rivals of Spain and Portugal in the religious, maritime, and colonial wars of those four centuries. American Council on Education
Not really. Read the encyclopedia Britannica about Black legend: First slander against Spain begings in the 14th century in Italy. There is literature on this matter writen by non_Spanish schollars, and even no Hispanic ones such us Lummis (US), Arnoldsson (Swiss) or Payne, Kamen (England), Prescott (US), Gullo (Argentina). These include historians, and political scientists, not just writters.
Nobody expects the Spanish Black Legend!
This should be the real meme
There are very few people who can engage an audience as you cam. Well done. And thank you very much.
Interesting how the German inquisition never got mentioned. Far worse by any metric. The Spanish inquisition was scorned in the English speaking world so much, in part, due to the rivalry between the Spanish and British empires
Very true, the french inquisition also was worst in some aspects. The britts are a kind of cruel with us, );
Ya but Spain gets more of the press
How do you caluclate it was worse?
@@shakiMiki the French in one single day where responsible for the dead of almost ten times the Spanish Inquisition in 300 years , the day was August 24-25 1572
The night of Bartolommeo.
i know french put women and children in ovens
What a way to clear up a lot of missing context! Amazing lecture, thank you from me, 4 years in the future from the time of this talk.
Have had this in my watch later section for ages. Fascinating.
Brilliant ! Professor Ryrie ! Thank you ! Will consider myself fortunate to Follow this Series you put forth ! I look ahead !
Another observation; from what I understand from modern researchers such as María Elvira Roca Barea , the Spanish inquisition actually had rigid judicial procedures in place that curtailed their powers. It's what set them apart from earlier inquisitions, such as the French and Italian ones.
Thanks for posting. A great lecture. I’ve enjoyed every one of Dr Ryie’s presentations
This looks to be a very promising and thought-provoking series, as one would expect from Prof. Ryrie's previous lectures here.
Are you nuts? I agree Prof. Ryrie is a great lecturer but this is amongst his worse lectures of all time.
@@s31720 That is a mere assertion, how can anyone know whether or not you yourself are nuts?
Comparing the executions of the Spanish Inquisition (about 3,000 in 340 years, or 3% of the cases accounted in the archives) to death penalty executions in the United States several centuries later... where the crime of heresy was already a thing of the past, does not seem very academic. You should compare like with like. Compare it to the German witch trials from 16th-18th century A similar inquisition persecuting heresy killed between 20,000 and 30,000 women, accused of witchcraft. That's at least ten times as many executions in less time. Yet we're not talking about the German inquisition, somehow.
Anyone interested in witches knows that the book on identifying witches was written by a german.
Edward Peter's 1977 book, _Inquisition_ was one of the first to demonstrate there is actually TWO Spanish Inquisitions: the first being the actual historical entity, and the second being the agitprop creation of English pamphleteers working in a semi-official campaign to discredit Spain by the excuse of attacking the ravenously cruel Papist Inquisition--- because criticizing the Spanish Monarchy could quickly bleed over attacking Monarchy, including the insecure Tudors, in general. Hence, the Black Legend and the Spanish Inquisition of black propaganda, FAR exceeding the actual trials and executions, and yes actual atrocities.
There are many books which DEMOSTRATE otherwise. The "insecure" Tudors created a great empire, manwhile the Spanish monarchy descended into decadence and backwardness. The Spanish intolerance and fanatism was not only demonstrated in their Inquisition, but also in the religious wars, the forced conversions of the American indians and the expelling of an entire nation from Spain because of ther faith.
The Tudors had no Empire when Elizabeth I died.
England really rose to power in 1815. Please check the historical record
@@ricardolado7446 Maybe the SPANSIH "historical" records. The rest of the world knows better. England began to colonize América at the end of the 16th century. Thus, beginning an empire. Not the hegemonic empire, but an empire. British became the hegemonic empire in the 19th century, but that is another thing. And meanwhile the Spanish empire did not began through their own efforts, but only through a marriage, meaning through the bed of the son of an emperor, England made its empire through their own effort. And meanwhile Spain is now a second rate country, England is a world power. It's ridiculous and childish to make those kinds of comparisons.
@@herrero4270 spain a second rate country and england a super power...
Is this a childish and ridiculous comparison?
@@mito88 No, it is correct.
Worst atrocities were perpetrated by English against Catholics in his own territory in sixteenth and seventeenth centuries,. By the way, a forgetted genocide, in the beginning of XX century in Fillipinnes, more than a million people massacred by American troops
Fascinating. Gifted lecturer.
The third of this lecture series was posted. Where is the second? What’s it called?
We've just updated the playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLU3TaPgchJtSe4Je7J4TBs0GfyIg-TUxX.html
A huge Black Legend camouflagged as we are very civilized with a very long list of attrocities worldwide but failed totally about the attrocities close to home. The huge attrocity of the total murdering of the native American people or as the saying at that time. The best indian was a dead one! Needless to say that all the Native American were killed without mercy and today USA and Canada are two huge counties in the continent where their Native American were killed but this is not genocide. One a small Hispanic country like El Salvador Have 1000.000 time more native american than those two huge countries put together. Native Americans you can find in Hispanic countries like Mexico, Panama, Costa Rica, Bolivia, Paraguay, Chile, Guatemala, etc.
The Native Australian were not recognize as human beings and were killed on horseback. In Tasmania all aboriginals were killed but it makes no different as the Wonderfull colonisers regarded the Aboriginals as not better than an animal and consequently most were murdered. The same happened with the Maoris in New Zealand where again the natives were considered humanly slightly better than wild animals. The lies of the Black Legend is coming to light now. There were 19 Universities in Latin American counties built by the Spanish. and 325 Hospitals while there were none in USA and Canada! So there were not just thouse magnificent Cathedrals and Churges. There are 19 World Heritage building in the Americas but none in the other colonies outside Spanish main as Spain treated all the natives and mestizos as SPANISH. PLEASE TOP THE BLACK LEGEND and have a small degree of distance in your awful aberration of continuing with the false Black Legend used by the other empires of that time to steal the land and have the native population killed. Ireland was another country which suffered terribly under the murderous troops of Cronwell and the slavery of the Irish which were sold in the American continent. From a population of 8 million people are 3 centuries after just five millions!! Do you know why?
Interesting information. As we have seen , we as humans still not learning from the mistakes of the past.
We never will as humans. It still goes on.
Spanish Inquisition was far more fair than English Star Chamber and French Lettre de Cachet
Wow that was quite a preamble
A pre-... ramble, even.
I am impressed about the objectivity of this lecture , though I found some dark spot (information blackout) for obvious reasons, I guess, related with the first 1000 victims.
could you expand on that?
A powerful series that calls to our moral imagination. I have enjoyed--no, wrong word--listened to this series with care and appreciated these lectures very much.
Thank you 🙌👏👏
A question: at least twice it is pointed out that the inquisition tribunal conducted torture.
I am not an expert in Spanish Inquisition; in the portuguese inquistion, the use of torture was possible only in later stages of the investigation and was not conducted by the inquisitorial office but by state officers.
What was the procedure in Spain?
The Inquisition could actually use torture, but only in very specific situations, and there were only 3 different ways fo torture, non could include bleeding not perpetual damage. It was, as in Portugal, in the later stages of investigations, only in around 5% of the cases. And I am not sure about who actually carried out the torture, but it was most probably a state officer, though the Inquisition had some lawyers supervising everything, since the torture methods used by the Insquisition were far more restricted than those of the secular tribunals. They had to make sure the torture was no longer than 15 minutes, and that it was not applied twice, that there was no bleeding, etc. So I guess they did intervene somehow in the process.
You are confused. The torture was CONDUCTED by the Inquisition everywhere, but EXECUTED by the secular arm. The inquisitors were present during the torture, made the interrogatories and gave orders to the torturers, but didn't touch the corpses of the convicts. The inquisitors were hypocrites with double standards, so they can blame others of those actions.
@@herrero4270 what corpses idiots.. did you miss the part where it says torture couldnt not cause permanent damage nor bleeding?.
Those Muslims were the Moors aka Blackamoors of Israel, many of whom converted to Islam, and later Christianity, were later expelled. Hence the origin of the term Marrano.
Hence the word Marrano? What about the Pig?
I know you are not trying to connect the word Marrano with Moor. 1st of all the word Moor is an English word. Los Moros o Moriscos are or come from Mauritania. The Jews not the Moors were called Marranos, please don’t get that twisted. A Marrano means PIG! Till this day it means PIG. The Sefardim were hated so bad by the Christians that they fed the prisoners pork! And were called a disgrace, and Marrano that only deserved scraps. And btw, they were given pork as well as they were held imprisoned without food and would only give them Pork “Marrano” to test their faith, as to why many died of starvation.....and here we are 2024 giving in to Christianity as if The Most High didn’t tell us HE IS ONE and there is NO ONE ELSE BUT HIm his equal.
And no they were not they were Ishmaelites. The Muslim of Spain were descendent of Ishmael and knew that the “jews” of Spain were their cousins. Please stop making up stories. They spoke the language as well. Many converted as well, many came into South Central America as well. Hispanic people still carry on many cultural aspects our ancestors brought back from Spain’ Our ancestors spoke the Hebrew and the Galician with over 5000 words of Arab derived words that we Hispanic people still use till this day. They spoke ladino which is a,mixture Hebrew and Spanish. Same as the Spanish Arab, their Arab had many of the Galician “Spanish” in it. No matter how much people will deny their s a history trail.......and so much paper trail. But we ain’t out here wanting the light to shine on us. We know and what we do with that info is on our hand.
Likely less forgotten than intentionally hidden, like many such atrocities that have occurred throughout history.
Mesmerizing speaker! :)
Interesting view point of the inquisition. I would like to see you in a debate on this subject. The truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
Exactly!!!! The Spanish inquisition gives a description of who was expelled and it definitely wasn't the description of the modern day Jewish people. I would like for him to go so far as to talk about where they were expelled to.
@@cherylguest7415 There lie are falling apart
Starts at 26:00
I have studied Relativity (including black holes) for decades. I also knew about the “black hole of Calcutta” since high school history class. This is the first and only time I’ve ever heard someone try to make a connection between the two.
and about time, right?
Fair enough.. thank you from Saudi Arabia 🇸🇦
Atrocities are usually committed in the Belief that killing a relatively small number at the time will cause enough Terror in an Enemy to ensure Submission and less Casualties in future Campaigns, Though this has proved to be Counter Productive when Religion or Politics are involved.
Oh it worked so well in Vandee..and the world seem to be as silent about it as possible...
I have listened to several lectures in this series now and find them fascinating and informative. Some of the comments seem to come from an insecure view of how their nations history is being portrayed but I don't see any bias or judgment in this lecture. 40 years ago all I was taught about Canada's residential schools was that "First nations children were given a free education in schools operated by the government and religious organizations ". I am glad that we no longer whitewash our history and that children are taught the truth, shame is always preferable to ignorance.
Don't forget the third tower that fell a little later. The media ignores that completely. And more. But your point is well taken. Thank you.
52:30 Was he a Flemish merchant? Or was he a kind of idealized Renaissance man?
3200 deaths in 300 years of Spanish inquisitio This is a black legend anticatholic propagandist.
Elisabeth the second protestant inquisition: 100.00ü deaths.
Add Cromwell, Henry VIII etc...
Este hombre dice que va contra la leyenda negra pero no explica nada de lo que se hacia en Europa, America o Asia contra los católicos. Yo puse que Torquemada era converso y no aparece mi comentario.....En fin, aun así hay otras paginas con millones de visualizaciones que se deberían denunciar, que si que contiene leyenda negra . Abominables
May be Voltaire did not dare to write about the trials in France.
The French people never speak about their own flaws or shortcomings. But they have lots os skeletons in the cupboard. Even nowadays they have much to conceal about their policies in Africa.
@@cinderelladevil1687 Are all modern French people alive responsible for what - some of - their long dead ancestors did ?
@@philipcoriolis6614 and are the Spaniards to blame for their forebears' "faults"? Because we have been putting up with lies and bad reputation for ages. It is high time that every western power tastes that stapple. Bitter, isnt it????
The French are benefiting from their postcolonial monetary policies in Africa. In Chirac's words without that rubbish imperialism, France would be insignificant in the big world. They keep on ruining that continent.
@@cinderelladevil1687 Why would Spanish people from the XXI century be responsible from what some of their ancestors did in the XVI century ? Talking about the Conquistadores, Smallpox and Salmonella did most of the job by the way.
@@philipcoriolis6614 ask those who spread the black legend about Spain.
I am fed up with all those lies.
But still you did not answer about the French policies in Africa nowadays.
Great work! We need badly such clarifications in this time of modern dark age.👍from me !!
"Memories can be kept discreetly in a freezer for a very long time, and reheated very fast." That's true.
Funny thing is, the BBC made an amazing documentary on it that taught me about the black legend before any Spanish source did! And then they backtracked like their life and funding depended on it for two decades. XD
When they discovered they were wrong.
They didn't backtrack.
That's ridiculous.
The black legend (exaggerating the inquisition) was pursued in the 1600's .
Not in the last 20 years.
I say the same documentary ,which was my first introduction
@@wolfthequarrelsome504 when they discovered that Spain is actually their enemy and they where helping it by saying the truth
Thanks for your information. I liked also Henry Kamen book "The Spanish Inquisition".
Eres española o sudamericana y apoyas esta acusacion de crueldad?
Kamen write books for Mr. Roper and his friends.
Is that his revisionist, factually based publication of 1998?
The exagerated numbers killed in the twin towers attack were reported without critisism in British media, while the numbers killed in the Grenfell fire were played down. This points to Professor Ryrie's larger point about stories of atrocities serving different agendas. It tells me that our constitionally unbiased national media (the BBC) has very slippery standards.
What was exaggerated about the Twin Towers official death toll?
@@arnoldconrad744 Early estimates were around 10,000 and this was reported uncritically in the news.
@@thumper8684 It was base on an assessment of building maximum occupancy and capacity and the time of the attacks - being that at the time of the attacks it was assumed many people would already be at work. The estimates didn't account for evacuation as it wasn't known how effective they had been. The estimates were always saying 'could be as high as'... Whereas the Grenfell estimates were never properly understood as many of the flats had multiple occupancy and estimating how many families were in residence at the time of the fire was next to impossible. Unlike the controlled access to the Twin Towers and workers roll calls, estimating the occupancy of a residential building without controlled access and roll-calls is always going to be a guess. There was no agenda behind either estimates and to suggest otherwise seems a little mischievous.
@@johnsmith-mv8hq So you are saying that the estimates of the casualties were based on capacity because that was a natural assumption based on the time of day. Grenfell Tower was a block of flats and the fire occured at 3 AM. It is safe to say it was at peak capacity.
The mis-estimate of deaths in the Twin Towers attack was five times the actual numbers. The estimate of the casualties was a fraction of the true number. There were informal estimates at the time from first responders at Grenfell that were closer to the true figure. This is evident from interviews with people people involved, albeit not directly from the first responders.
Why do you see my comment as mischevous? I have a point of view. The BBC is a large organisation with a complex of motivations that can be contradictory. The mandate of balanced journalism is not really definable and they tend towards a policy of appeasement. There is a bias in who they feel they need to appease.
I also think there is a party political and class bias which has gotten ridiculous in the last decade, but that is not the argument I was wanting to make.
@@thumper8684 I saw your remark as mischievous in that, I believed, it insinuated a bias of BBC reporting where errors might just be that: human error. No agenda need be behind a mistake. There appears to be an increasing tendency in any discourse these days to ascribing some deeper socio-political structural or ideological posture to any situation where none need exist.
To suggest the BBC erred with covering Grenfell from 'slippery' standards led me to that conclusion. My suggestion that Grenfell's occupancy figures may be mistaken is simply that it would have been easy to calculate the estimated population from making assumptions about occupancy per bedroom. But that would, of course, lead to errors as there's clearly going be a heterogeneous population of occupancy given differing social circumstances of each resident.
Buildings are designed with emergency evacuation in mind and this limits population capacity. Grenfell was erected in 1967 - predating many of later fire 'means of escape' regulations introduced for fire safety in the early 1970's; but which emerged from studies and hard practical lessons learned from the mid-1940s in the UK onwards.
Ironically, it the earlier attack on the Twin Towers in 1993 that helped mislead estimates. The Twin Towers were notorious for poor design in terms of 'means of escape' and the experience of 1993 and people also assuming max capacity so early in the day only confused matters. When the 1993 bomb went off 50,000 people had to be evacuated from the WTC estate. This was clearly on people's minds on 9/11. I know they were on mine.
Making a heuristic calculation 'on the fly' has little to do with proper standards of journalism.
Could the BBC have fact checked? Perhaps. But they weren't the only news gathering organisation there or covering the event.
Perhaps I misinterpreted your remark. If so, I am sorry and can only ascribe this to the blunt instrument of UA-cam commentary lacking nuance of tone and delivery.
This goes to my point (and your own additional comment and explanation) about your remark being seen as mischievous - raising the issue of BBC coverage was unhelpful. They weren't alone in making errors of estimation.
Singling them out as they are the legally ordained public broadcaster suggested to me (incorrectly, it seems!) that you'd fallen into the trap of seeing the BBC as the mouth-piece for HMG. When the typical situation is often, as you say, that the BBC is at odds with the government in power at any single time and has to dance around very carefully indeed to maintain it's neutrality. As you point out, if anyone in the UK were reading the newspapers from either side of the political spectrum they could easily conclude that the BBC was simultaneously basically the Tory Party and a hotbed of Soviet-era sedition. Both arguments do often get made in various newspapers. :/
First responders to Grenfell almost certainly had better information about the population of the building from both their experience of the local situation and from inspections. I understand that Grenfell had been inspected twice in the months prior to the tragic fire. Doubtless this played a part in fire crews understanding the building much more than had it not been inspected. That the building failed each inspection and remedial efforts weren't undertaken to improve matters shines no glory on the local authority. :/
That the BBC and others did not know any of that at the time seems just to be the ordinary run of things - thus they had to make poor estimates. Sadly, journalists aren't omniscient.
"Inquisition genocidal campaign against Spanish Jews"... too much for British historians, I guess. A conference about the Black Legend, yet the description of the video itself is a fine example of the aforementioned anti-Catholic and anti-Spanish propaganda. Good job. Once a pirate, always a pirate, I gess, not that it should surprise us any more. British be British. For the next Black Legend video, let me recommend to you the genocidal English campaign against English Jews in 1290. You're welcome.
The English have a monopoly on genocide?
One genocide does not exculpate another.
Greg K And your reply doesn’t answer mine.
There was no genocide. At least in the case of Spain and the Jews. Or in the case of Spain in general. Spain NEVER commited genocide. Period.
@@AnexoRialto Spain expelled the Jews who did not convert to Catholicism. In fact, a few years ago, the descendants of those expelled Jews (those who have been able to demonstrate that they are descendants and who have decided to acquire it) were granted Spanish nationality.
Spain expelled in order to create a country with a single religion, so it was given the option to stay and the one who left took all the belongings, except those that could not. The purpose of England was to seize the wealth of these.
Genocide is systematic extermination. Current Latin America: it is mestizo and in some countries they are mostly indigenous. Therefore, there was no genocide. If we look at the US, the few indigenous people that remain are on reservations, clearly what happened there was genocide.
This should have more views
How about sharing it with your friends then, instead of typing that and doing nothing else? Twonk.
@@s31720 I've done it, clever boy. I suggest you do the same.
@@Angel_Gomez You remember sharing this 8 months ago?
@@yetga5776 I remember sharing it when I saw it, as I always do with every interesting video I see
@@s31720 You must be fun at parties
I was wondering if you were going to mention the horrors that King Leopold, and The other European nations that joined him and what they did in the Congo.
Seems like this playlist is in reverse order
0:00 - 25:19 Waxing academically.
25:19 - 26:00 Overlook of the lecture series.
26:00 The Spanish Inquisition.
👍🏽
Machaivelli's Prince (1532) talks of the "pious cruelty" of Ferdinand against the Marranos. Earliest criticism I know of.
I was looking forward to this as I am genuinely curious about what happened in Europe due to religious differences. In the end I was extremely disappointed. It should never take anyone 30 minutes of a 60 minute lecture for an introduction before getting to the specific subject matter.
I agree. The intro was was too long. I started to wash dishes
Interesting overall, but this lecture made me feel uncomfortable on the matter of the use of the word 'atrocity'. The word 'atrocity' is surely a fairly new word in this context, gaining common currency or otherwise circulated for the widespread purposes of news stories, if I recall correctly, around about when the speaker would have been a child. Or am I wrong?
Just because a word is new doesn't mean the concept it represents is new.
@@pendlera2959 Yeah, sure. And he correctly details the politicization of that concept in the first half.
Siento que muchos españoles han visto el video pero no han entendido el punto jaja
And let’s not forget our little ‘atrocity’ in Mai lai in 69.... which the u.s. is more than happy to erase from history
It took 44 minutes of talking to get to the point. I reject this black legend propaganda. I do appreciate that this is a very difficult subject thanks for covering it.
I guess this "cultural memory" of the Black Legend has been passed on and preserved in South Africa, since your average, even secular, Afrikaner (17th C. Dutch being the major ancestral component, at least culturally) will usually have anti-Catholic views, usually based on the Black legend and other slanders or calumnies.
What a magnificent presenter!
La inquisición la practicaron más los protestantes europeos qe los católicos españoles.
Eso pasa por hacer archivos, recoger nombres, fechas...donde se ponga una buena causa protestante contra herejes o brujas sin datos , que se quite todo lo demas 😂
Terror is theatre.
What happened to the Jews and moors that were exiled to Saint Thomas, Angola, and Brazil that were raised as Christians and Slaves?
Matthew Hopkins (c. 1620 - 12 August 1647) was an English witch-hunter whose career flourished during the English Civil War. He claimed to hold the office of Witchfinder General, although that title was never bestowed by Parliament. His activities mainly took place in East Anglia.[1]
Hopkins' witch-finding career began in March 1644[a] and lasted until his retirement in 1647. He and his associates were responsible for more people being hanged for witchcraft than in the previous 100 years,[2][3] and were solely responsible for the increase in witch trials during those years.[4][5][6] He is believed to have been responsible for the executions of over 100 alleged witches between the years 1644 and 1646.[7]
It has been estimated that all of the English witch trials between the early 15th and late 18th centuries resulted in fewer than 500 executions for witchcraft.[citation needed] Therefore, presuming the number executed as a result of investigations by Hopkins and his colleague John Stearne is at the lower end of the estimates,[8][9][10] their efforts accounted for about 20% of the total. In the 14 months of their crusade Hopkins and Stearne sent to the gallows more accused people than all the other witch-hunters in England of the previous 160 years.[11]
your copy and paste is funny. You didn't read it.
@@dionisioareopagita9533 Obviously is very tired...have to write all the text to palliate your lack of histoy knowledge...and its the History of your country its suppose....Im spaniard I know perfectly my History and Im affraid the yours. Unfortunatelly u can say the same about your country....but its never too late to take off your blinders
Any information on the 100,000-150,000 women killed by Swiss Calvinist protestants as supposed witches?
Judge a society of 16 century is similar than judge Roman Empire
Brilliant research bravo 👏
Thank you, gracias.
Skip to 26:06
I've always thought that the future will see the industrial animal death machine we depend upon as an atrocity of sorts, albeit almost unavoidable one
I mean it takes less land to grow corn than to feed cows as I understand it so I'm not sure how it is unavoidable really.
@@Sara3346 almost unavoidable!
@@Sara3346 The land cannot sustain enough amount of crop to overthrow the meat industry. However we could work for a balanced and sustainable way of feeding (both meat and veggies) once we stop shooting babies into this planet without control.
Truth be told
It is far from truth, pure anti-spanish propaganda. The British are the largest genocides in world history.
@@Pleittor On the contrary, the biggest genocides were created by the Belgians. How about you read some history!?
What about the hammer of witches?
Never endorsed by the catholic church.
No matter what, WASPs always consider no WASPs as under humans, they always find justification to feel entitled to do any atrocity, and endorse them to someone else. The problematic relationship between protestants and guilt
Estoy informada .Gracias .En toda Europa había Inquisición. Hablen de la Inquisición en Suecia,Portugal , Francia ,suiza etc.
Si, bueno...pero esto es sobre la Inquisición española, no sobre lo que tu prefieras...
@@herrero4270 Infórmate un poco, que opinas mucho y poco sabes 🙄
@@annekke1974 Estoy muy bien informado. Si en algo me equivoco, prueba a refutar mis argumentos. En cuento a este comentario en especial, está fuera de lugar que tu tocaya cite a las otras inquisiciones, como en plan de decir: "las otras fueron peores". Y lo fueron, solo que ese no es el tema escogido por el conferencista. Los españoles son muy dados a señalar a otros diciendo lo mismo, pero eso no cancela, excusa, anula o minimiza sus propias faltas, que muy bien puede haberlas compartido Europa, eso ya lo sabemos.
@@herrero4270 Sigo opinando igual. Lee e infórmate más.
@@annekke1974 I don´t give a shi t about your opinion. When confronted, the Spaniards use that kind of 'arguments': 'oh, you don't know, inform yourself. you are an ignorant, you must be resentful' and so on. But those are no arguments, but personal disqualifications. A falacy known as 'ad hominem', or, in other words, attacking the person, not the adversary's arguments. Such is the intelectual poverty of your people.
A video about the spanish inquisition? I was expecting that. Really, I was. It was recommending Gresham college videos about "how to be an atheist" in various time periods to me all yesterday, so it was only a matter of time before it brought up the spanish inquisition.
yeah sure
you were expecting the S I
ja ja ja
Are you a hipster?
@@green-eyesgreydragon7451 watsa hipstr?
@@fukpoeslaw3613 Hipster like you
Great lecture. I missed a reference to Tristan Shandy's dread of the Inquisition, though. I would very much like to hear Professor Ryrie's views on Inquisition in Spanish and Portuguese America.
I guess you never will though. Tough luck for you.
@@s31720 thank you. For you too!
Nobody expected that
25:59 START discussion of Spanish Inquisition.
Im glad Im not the only one who was upset about this. A 60 minute lecture should not have a 30 min "introduction"
Thank you!
He ist making an attempt to justify his bunch of propaganda coming next
HumA. ONLY 1000! WOW!!! My family were pretty lucky it was so wonderful for them. They must have had so much fun trying to stay alive.
Unholy Inquisition, Unholy Rome.
Stop moaning.
@@s31720 Why...the Spaniards always are moaning...against the Black Legend, the masons, the jews, the French, the american creoles and so on...the Spanish victimism is legendary...do you claim the monopoly of moaning?
s31720. Not moaning. Stating how terrible Rome behaved back in the day and will in the future.
@@elainemoreland3908 don't think so Elaine; perhaps that may have been true up until Vatican Council II but now that my Church is a leftist organization the Catholic Church has been neutered.
No one expected this.
I can hear Bill Clinton saying 'it all depends on the meaning of the word is...." It all depends on your definition of an atrocity, and I find that shamelessly weak and silly, but then this bloke comes from the same crowd that produced Monty Python. One might talk about atrocities that are realized versus those that are recognized. Recognition does not in the least change the event of the actual event. Lawyerly talk for lawyerly reasons. It is fine in it's way, but it's just a perfect recipe for how to cover up an atrocity.
about the so-called "La Leyenda Negra" (The Black Legend) and why is it a factor in the noticeably anti-Spanish sentiments prevailing in the way Philippine history during the Spanish period is taught and written ?
Who taught history at that time in schools and in what language? It's easy to understand.
In the history books of Puerto Rico, the arrival of the United States was praised and it is said that the people received them with open arms, but they were really received by gunfire and under brutal resistance ...
@@sapereaude3057 I mean.... USA literally back stabbed Spain to "free the people under Spanish control" when the same people didn't wanted to leave Spain
@@sapereaude3057 And most of Puerto Ricans were birracial or ethnically Spaniards, whom lived in a prominently stable economy as an overseas province (Thanks to Isabel II). Obviously the Puerto Ricans didn't want the Anglo Americans at their doorstep.
@@sapereaude3057 Indeed, puerto ricans received the americans with guns.. of course, they had nothing to do against such a superior force, but at least they showed them they werent welcomed.
What mastery of the English language.
That's what you get from being born in England. He probably doesn't speak Mongolian but that's not his fault.
Muy intersante . Congratulations
If an atrocity happens in a forest and no one is around to hear it, is it an atrocity?
Facts not fiction...Mexico is 50 % Amerindian the US is less than 1%. The Spanish didn't exterminate they assimilted
Why does he not mention Muslims who died by the Inquisition? Weren't Muslims more numerous than Jews since they were in power (in Granada, for example)? Did they escape the Inquisition? If so, why? If not, why not?
Neither Jews nor Muslims were prosecuted, firstly because by the time of Inquisition they had been expelled from Iberian peninsula, and secondly because Inquisition was meant to prevent and punish Catholic heresies. This is why conversos (former muslims and jews converted to Catholicism) fell under special survey.
Muslims who refused to convert to Christianity were expelled from Spain. They were not pursued by the inquisition, because they were not in the country. Spain is almost unique in successfully eradicating Islam despite much of it being governed by Islamic powers for centuries.
Your wig is awesome bro
Atrocities and Memory is the topic. I get that. One of my history professors, Amos Funkenstein, at UCLA in 1976, when lecturing on the Inquisition, professed that the Inquisition occurred at a time when wild ideas were common. Machiavelli was held out as an example. Just my 2 cents.
He had no intelligence of Machiavelli's interpretation of reality. Read M.
Who are the Jews and what about the black people who were sent to Africa who you never mentioned you are evil as your ancestors
Envy is a terrible sin...that is what happened with Spain and the rest of Europe...still applies nowadays when Spain tries to wake up from the 200 years of black and foggy night...everyone knows in many world chancelleries that if the Hispanic world suddenly awakes and get together in any possible way, it will be a huge change in the geopolitical playground....we will see what happens.
people often confuse religious history with 'taking sides.'
What a brilliant point! You are a genius!
@@s31720 I know !
When Prof. Ryrie notes Dostoyevsky's use of the 'inquisition' and the 'grand inquisitor' understand Dostoyevsky was stone-cold an anti-Catholic.
A fact which doesn't say anything about the validity of what Dostoievsky wrote.
@@herrero4270 True
@@herrero4270 ¿ Don Stoievsky ? 🤭
@@fukpoeslaw3613 Corrected.
Que decades old Monty Python joked