+fritspas I can't tell if you're joking or not, so if you are joking then I do apologize for this rant ahead of time. Assuming you're not joking, you're an idiot. 1. How do you know it's his wife? 2. What he is doing is not being physically abusive to her in any way, he is having her help him with a demonstration of a few longsword techniques. He is not hitting her with the sword with any intent to hurt her, they aren't even sparring as a test of each other's skills. He is only having her help him with a techniques demonstration, and for that he has to touch her with the blade sometimes, and not with any real amount of force. He's barely even tapping her with it. Also, she is WEARING PROTECTIVE GEAR. Even though he's just barely tapping her with the blade, he has her wearing protective gear just to make sure she doesn't get hurt. Oh yeah, so horrible.
The Mystery Swordsman! Nobody knows their name, nobody knows where they came from, nobody has ever seen their face. All we know is that they're available to help with demonstrations in UA-cam videos.
A lot of keyboard warriors here! Before you say this disarms wouldn't work a) just try for yourself with a weapon or b) just think for a moment - would a reknown master Fiore put this technique in at least 5 manuscripts made for close kept students and people of power if it would be of NO practical use? :P
Scawking They do work - the best way to check this out is to actually try this technique :) But for the sake of argument... False masters are in fact mentioned in 14cent. treatise "Dobringer codex") but Fiore (as far as we know) did trained some of the most reknowned knights and mercenaries who didn't train for amusement. It would be very unlikely if ppl like Galeazzo Gonzaga (who knew his martial arts well) appointed a man who didn't knew what he was saying and pid him lots of money on daily basis. So yes - it is possible to be a fraud and make money on teaching bad martial arts- we see that today, ppl saw that 700ys ago - but in case of Fiore taht is highly unlikely.
A lecturer I really like said something phenomenal once: People lived, died and fought by the historical techniques. So if we think something is stupidly designed or inefficient, then we must not be understanding it, or must not be placing it in the proper context.
Scawking That's certainly true but there was a class of warriors that trained with these swords the same way a soldier today trains with a gun, and used it if not as often as a modern soldier at least on occasion in anger (the 20th century is actually way more war-prone than the 16th...) Just like today it would be silly for an airsoft gun enthusiast to lambaste a soldier's sloppy weapon-work, we have to consider that these people were professionals, and if we think they were doing something silly, from our experience with modern blunted swords and fencing gear on then chances are we are the ones misunderstanding. Also, our knowledge comes from people that not only fought with swords but saw a great deal of sword combat. We get descriptions like Fiore describing the "peasant's strike" where an inexpert swordsman swung straight down with all his might, and how easily it was defeated, learned from watching what an amateur does when handed a longsword. These people fought as they trained, and trained as if their lives depended on it, because they did. And the men training them were experienced in watching real mortal combat (Fiore was a noted military commander, for instance), and practicing it themselves. This is why keyboard masamunes are silly in my opinion. If it was a dumb idea it wouldn't have been taught by men respected for hundreds of years for their command of combat. And in addition we wouldn't see so many similarities among the great teachers of the art.
Scawking Yes, it *is* silly. Unless you can show why the technique is sloppy, and I mean SHOW it via a video (which is so simple these days you truly have no excuse, if you got the means to train, you have someone to train with, you have someone to at least record what you do or can record yourself. SOMETHING) So show, don't tell. Good rule of thumb here.
@Cipher He wouldnt be renowned swordmaster then. Reason why modern bullshido schools instructor gets away with it is that they teach people who dont know anything about fighting and so on. Fiore taught people who already knew sword fighting the professional soldiers of that time. If someone back then would try to train some bs to students like Fiore had they would immediately call them out. Their lives literally depended upon that they could trust their training. Fiore himself had at least 5 duels on his life time. He also wasnt just teacher he was guy who got insane amounts of money to train people past typical level of martial training. Obviously its easy for some random guy in modern time to teach bs swordfighting because we dont live surrounded by people carrying swords. Fiore in other hand not only lived in enviroment where every guy on his social class carrying swords, but also the other swordmasters who competed Fiores position, and money of his students.
Nice tutorial. Your partner did a good job. I've taught in little rooms with hardly any space. It's a challenge even without trying to stay on camera. It seems as if some people have to be critical as a way of bolstering their egos. They should be impressed. Two grown adults, with long swords no less, staying in frame. Along with a solid explanation and demo. Well done.
You demonstrate the interplay of the moves quite well here. I keep on expecting your assistant to bomp you on the head when you turn your back though... :)
NERD ALERT! I used to LARP during my teens, 20's and early 30's. I was the only one in any of the larping I did (that I was aware of anyway, and I'd larped all over the country from California to New York, and everywhere in between) who'd figured out how to do a disarm with a boffer without having to lay hands on my opponent. I tried to teach it to a couple of others, but they never got the hang of it. My disarm worked along the same principle, though I never did it from a bind. I would wait for my opponent to strike down at me from a particular angle from their upper right, across me to my lower right. I would parry hard to my right (their left), then turn it into a swift circular motion, down and back around to my left, directing the point of their sword below their own hand and hard back behind them. It would strip the sword right out of their hand and send it flying. It was awesome.
biomechanics of fighting with long weapons like these are so fascinating because any lever action is magnified by the length. there's so much to work with.
Thanks for the video! It was very informative. As a matter of form and presentation you might consider introducing the person assisting you with the demonstration, then thanking them on camera afterwards.
Maybe they don't want to be introduced and have people know who they are, but thanking them would be good (which i think he does in other videos, but he just refers to her as "my assistant")
Your channel is really cool. The mix of facts, experience and detail is amazing…thanks for sharing all this. Im a big fan of military history and this channel really brings to life the man to man part of fighting.
God Damn, her posture is beautiful- And thank you for this vid, I was really hoping to see a disarm video after watching your other video of you teaching. Why have we never seen such moves in hollywood movies?? It looks cool and it's practical :)
Fiore catagorizes pommels the way the japanese did for how many bodies a blade can cut through. They would say "This is a 3 body blade" Fiore is like "This is an 8 tooth pommel. But we also stock a nice nimble 4 tooth pommel if you prefer"
Another great video by scholagladiatoria, as always it is packed with information not just out of books but ideas that obviously are very much alive in your daily practice. But as far as these techniques are concerned, do such moves really are seen used in the sparring practice of your school? Thank you
Always interesting and historically correct, judging from the illustrations in medieval and Renaissance fighting manuals. Even grabbing the opponent's blade and grabbing one's own blade are documented techniques. For those who don't believe me, or Schola, just do a google image search with "medieval fighting manuals two-handed sword" and you'll see.
I know your point was talking about disarms or strikes while tied up with your opponent's blade, but I always wondered why the guys in movies didn't try to headbutt or knee each other during those moments. It's always bothered me considering how most of the time they're well within "knocking out someone's teeth with your forehead" distance, and lots of times nobody is wearing a helmet.
I wonder how effective is letting one hand free and letting your sword slop so you can counter with your free hand? like a punch to the face I guess if they have dropped their sword. also, I think the directional investment of arm strength is probably a good thing to point out in grappling/bind, if you are exerting force in one direction, then you have little resistance to forces in other directions
So many of these are exactly the same in the HtH martial art I study. The pulling back to prevent the tap on he head especially works great if done w/a hooking hand and some abruptness, as it can pull the enemy out of their stance, or at least force an overreach. Pity, that the sword has no inverse edge and cannot hook. Would an axe allow it? Not that one can easily parry w/an axe.
Moves such as this done in a real show or movie would be really cool to see. They can even pause to talk, I don't care but do that. Could they remove one of their hands and pull away though? I suppose that won't stop the disarm. Just wondering.
I would love to see a movie were both the protagonist and the antagonist end in that position and the antagonist says something evil, instead of the protagonist saying something he just makes one of this moves and finishes him off. Finally, as the antagonist lies in the ground in his final breath the protagonist says something.
Yes several times and I have disarmed people in a few competitions, though it's not my preferred range to fight at. However, remember that these are techniques from original medieval treatises - they actually work better against someone who is trying to kill you than against someone who is playing in competition.
scholagladiatoria do you generally tll your students to train with intention to make the trtaining of techneques like disarms and put downs make more sence ?
Brillian! Very interesting techniques. I also liked the one you used in your last video, where you disarmed your opponent by twisting the sword under him. Do you have a close up of that?
Or maybe she is timid, and doesn't want us youtubers to mind her whilst she helps her teacher? (if so, her plan might have not worked, as many seem to wonder who she in the comments of the two videos she appears in as of now!) Congrats on enabling clear viewing of these techniques, mysterious girl! Ah, and don't be shy, the Intertubes are known to be a friendly, nice, warm and fuzzy place full of tro... hahem, friendly people! (Although in all seriousness, I must say these premises are amongst the most polite and best frequented around youtube)
You might have answered this in another video, but when you grapple with the sword you touch the blade portion of it. What sorts of techniques do you use to make that safe for your hand? I feel like that might be possible either because you assume you'd be wearing hand protection as if it were a real fight, you hold it tight enough so no cutting motion can happen, or maybe cuts will happen in real life but its worth the injuries to win the fight. Did I miss anything and/or were any of those impressions wrong?
That could very well happen in an actual sword fight, but that maneuver (bind, pommel strike, block, drop sword, grab opponents sword and disarm them) would happen extremely fast you wouldn't have long to do anything . . . but there are counters to most techniques and counters to those counters etc...
My dude, your videos are awesome as ''homework'' after the classes. But I have one question tho. Why do your feders shine so much? Don't you sandpaper them against rust and pigmentation? How do you maintain them so beautifully?
Very interesting Sir Matt! Thnx for the video , but i have some questions: Dont u think that dropping ur sword and engaging an armed opponent is too risky in a real fight ? What would happen if your opponent is stronger than you ? i mean he wont let you disarm him easiy ,also i believe that physical strength is very importatnt in grappling Thnx for answering :)
I'm more interested in Filipino arts which have whole series of flows to teach how to handle different reactions/resistence, the medieval arts won't be any different. He was really only giving an intro to the subject.
Matt could probably explain thousands of different ways to handle that situation, the first would pommel strike him to stun him then manuever forward in such away away so that I'm passing ahead of him, pivot and stab are cut him in the back, or stun strike half sword and stab him.
When you drop the weapon, you are already in control of theirs. As for strength and relative wrestling skills - this is something to decide during the fight. Obviously if I think my opponent is better at wrestling than me and I do not see an easy opportunity, then generally I am not going to risk it. But you could say similar of any technique in any situation.
scholagladiatoria , Thanks for the correction, like you have pointed out and several others, their is vulnerability in every techinque and smashing somone in the side of the face then dropping their weapon and grabbing theirs is alot diffrent from walking up to someone and trying to wrecth their weapon out of their hands
Imagine if you had a sword that had a vertical spike about an (inch or two give or take in length) on the end of the pommel. I would think a design like that would be great for counters like these as it would allow you to stab the opponent in the eye, neck, head, etc at close range. The only drawback I could see would be it would probably work best on a one-handed sword and there might be a slight danger of stabbing yourself or having the opponent grab your sword and thrust the spike into you, but I think all of that can be compensated for with training. Thoughts?
+savagenature1 Are you thinking of something like this: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ms.Thott.290.2%C2%BA_107v.jpg commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ms.Thott.290.2%C2%BA_108r.jpg From Talhoffers manual in 1459. =) I don't know if swords like these ever was made, but it was at least though of in the context of judicial duels. I would not like to have a spike on my pommel for a regular sword however, as it would be a real pain to wear it.
gurkfisk89 No, that's a lot more bulky than what I had in mind. I would see it as looking like the last inch or two of the sword's blade and it wouldn't be attached to a round pommel. You know spikes that come out of Blade's sword? www.google.com/search?q=blade%27s+sword&safe=active&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CB0QsARqFQoTCISZk5LVj8gCFQFNGgodgWYPrA&biw=1366&bih=667 Imagine one of those sticking out of the other end of the hilt
A question about the bind: As I understand it, you're supposed to parry with the flat of the blade to avoid edge damage. Does binding edge-to-edge produce edge damage of similar severity? Or is it simply considered reasonable wear-and-tear that a blade will experience in use?
***** Even parrying edge to edge, you parry with the forte or at worst the midst, so you're not really damaging the part you're going to cut with anyway.
***** Of course, my point was that because you do parry with the forte, the part of the edge that you cut with is preserved. Not that you parry with the forte to preserve the edge.
If you get a lock up that close, isn't kicking or grappling also very efficient. Getting your opponent off balance, staggering back maybe even falling, seems like a very good way to open them up for a finishing cut?
LarsaXL Kicks put you at risk, because they put you off balance. Especially when done up close. There is a very real risk of simply being pushed over backwards when you have one leg up. Not to mention the fact that plastic soccer shin guards are a joke compared to plate mail shin, and knee armor. You'd be lucky to even notice the kick, same goes for a punch to someone wearing a plate helmet. Only worse, you've taken one hand off your sword and no longer have leverage, while your opponent has not, and because you chose to kick and punch instead of grabbing at their weapon, they're so free in fact that they can now beat at your weak grip and then strike you mortally.
Good point, kicks are very risky and is pretty much useless against armor. Grappling however can be useful if done correctly. Letting go of your sword with one hand can be worth the risk if it enables you to better manipulate your opponent. One thing I have found to work in HEMA class is to let go of the sword with one hand and quickly push on their arm, which either spins them around and allows a one handed drawcut to their core targets and exposes their backs for a killing attack. Or it simply pushes their sword enough of line to allow me to get inside their effective range, if I am that close it is very difficult for both of us tu use the blade, but easy enough for me to simply punch them in the face with the gard or pommel of my sword. Since most antique helmets don't protect the face that well, and many people did not wear helmets at all, that would be quite devastating.
LarsaXL Yes. Which is why this video is about grappling techniques. Not kicking and punching. As for your assertion that warriors didn't wear helmets, (a truly preposterous assertion considering what we know from archeology dating all the way back to the bronze age). but whatever, for the sake of argument, let's pretend you're right. So what? Since when did you become Mike Tyson? Since when were all ancient warriors Mike Tyson? They weren't supermen. As for boxing, gosh, even barehanded it's only the punch you don't see coming that truly has a good chance for any kind of knock-out potential.You slug a warrior in the face while his blood is hot and he still has both hands on his weapon and you're going to die when he responds a split second later.
Just once I'd like to see a movie where the protagonist and his opponent go into that classic sword lock and the opponent is about to go into the cliche speech about how the hero won't win. At that point, the hero pommels them in the face and then chops their head open. After that the hero simply continues on his way to save the world.
Instead of completely dropping the sword on the first capture, why not just grab the pommel w/ the left hand and still use your hilt to leverage the disarm? Dropping a sword can certainly be beneficial in some situations, and here it would afford greater control when capturing the opposing weapon, but it also makes the capture a deadly necessity rather than an opportunity. Are there counter-applications that make it unwise to hold onto your sword?
AncientBlitzkrieg Like TSO said, it is a surprise move, and can be done very quickly. Plus you can grip their blade before you let go of your own sword to be a little safer. (and then you can grip their pommel for the full disarm.)
AncientBlitzkrieg Any technique has a counter to it. There is no such thing as "there is nothing he can do....." but the question is if you are able to pull the counter....
ok, now i see how the technique should work in this video. 1 you using both hands with longer leverage against opponent's shorter leverage. 2 using stronger biceps and elbow trap your opponent wrist. in last video was kinda confusing, because i oberserving you repeatly taking away the sword with one hand and shorter leverage againt opponent's both hand with longer leverage.
+scholagladiatoria So I'm starting on HEMA soon, I prob will find it out there but either way just curious, in Tournaments ofc may depend on different tournaments, but are you allowed to move in and disarm them if you are able to? Aswell as to wrestle them to the ground? Aswell as using the pommel strike like you did?
And what happens if the person doing the disarm is lefthanded? because that is the problem i usually have when i try to do any technique that requires releasing the support hand from the grip, which is my right hand, and it comes out very wrong for me in the end.
DAVID URQUIETA This disarm relies on crossing the opponent's wrists, so there are various ways you can achieve that from either side and with either hand - just experiment with a willing partner :-)
she seems so intimidated. she could've at least eased his shoulders a bit so that it doesn't look like she's been obligated to do that. Nice video and info anyway ^^
I don't know about punches apart from with the pommel/crossguard and so on. For the most parts, you have other things to do with your hands like controling your own oryour opponents blade. Trying to knock someone out with a fist when you have sharp steel in your hands seems like a waste of energy. =) Kicks on the other hand is more common. There are some kicks to the knees for example, and the groin ofc. And I think that it's Talhoffer that shows a frontkick to the torso when the swords are in a high bind. More fancy kicks wouldn't work as great as it's difficult to do them and use your sword at the same time and if your kick is blocked by a sword, you would just hurt your own leg.
Thanks. As to bunching, I mainly thought about it if you had an opportunity, like if your swords are crossed to the far right or left and your spare hand is just sitting on your chest at that time, or something like that, even though you would normally hold the sword with it, and you saw an opportunity to get a good bunch, assuming you through a good bunch, would that be a be a good idea in a sword fight? especially against an unhelmeted,visor up or no visor, opponent?
When he put his sword down did anyone else shout to his 'training dummy' "Kill him! Kill him now!"? For some reason I always have this reaction when I see someone training with another person to educate an audience. That at some time the 'training dummy' will strike. Maybe sooner, maybe later, maybe when you are asleep in your bed ... but they're coming for you.
+Robert R I would imagine continue with the disarm. the wrists can only turn so much before loosing grip, and if they only have one hand on the weapon it becomes much easier for you to manipulate. you want to watch the other hand though - they might be pulling out a dagger or attempting something else to disrupt you
Sorry for the 3 year late response. While it does have certain risk to drop your weapon, at that close range and if you are fast enough you can easily get away with it and use the technique. Also you have to remember that an that time everybody was armed with a dagger plus the main weapon, so they were not completely useless without it
It's one of those things you do once you have already passed the point where they can't hurt you. If you drop your sword too early they will strike you. You do it after you have already removed their ability to do so. This could be as Matt shows where they are busy in the parry, or it could be a grab of the arm, or any other motion that prevents them from attacking, even if only for a split second.
Why would youtry a disarm that involves disarming yourself to do it? Couldn't that leave you vulnerable to getting punched or kneed by your opponent then cut with your own sword?
Because you're only attempting this after you've already gotten the initiative, if not outright control of the weapon. There is the chance it might not succeed spectacularly, sure, but there is literally no move in a "real" fight that might not leave you "vulnerable" somehow. At some point you have to accept the risk of loss of life and limb, or you're just going to be perpetually backstepping. One who dares, wins. And regardless even if you don't successfully wrest the sword completely out of your opponent's hands, you have the initiative in what is effectively a grapple anyway.
yeah,but a sword, along with being a striking instrument, can also serve as a great big lever. It wouldn't be able to grip as easily as using both hands but it to fail at the grapple or disarm, simply buy utilizing the lever capabilities of the sword in one hand and the grabbing capabilities in of the free hand, if you fail you still have a killing tool and if you sucessfully didsiarm, grapple, you can still do the deed with your own sword. Good points. I guess just not a aggressive enough person to follow Fiore style longsword fencing
***** The word initiative was not coined by Dungeons and Dragons nor totally appropriated by it such that it invalidates any use for the term outside of that context; it's bewildering that you think I'm engaging in a discussion about martial arts using table top gaming language at all. In the entire sequence being described the person disarming has the initiative - the confidence in initiating action - precisely because as you said, the opponent has been forced to commit their body to certain positions. Yes they're both actively reacting at the same time, but the move to drop the weapon to disarm the opponent is made with the attacker having an expectation that they will be able to act inside their opposite's tempo.
***** Initiative is usually used to denote who has control of tempo and movement at a given time. In Go, for instance, this principle is called Sente, being able to make a move outside of reacting to an opponent. By striking in the Vor, one can seize the initiative, and force your opponent to react to you. If the attacked reacts successfully to a strike, they can counter the initiative, opening strikes in the Nach, or even gain it for themselves in the Indes. Countering initiative is a very valid fighting style, akin to counter-punching in boxing, or pulling guard in Jiu Jitsu. The only problem I find is that, against an equally or more skilled opponent, granting initiative can allow them to put you in positions you do not want to be in. Being taller and more athletic than most (6'3, 190 lbs 38'' vertical jump and 17:54 three miles when I get in shape), I prefer to strike from power positions, allowing me to control the tempo and range of a fight.
Seems like this technique could be equally useful with muskets, rifles, and other long firearms. Plus you'd get to offend with your butt in their face. ;)
seriously - what's to stop someone from just 'ranging in' and just starting to wrestle with the opponent? ... thereby preventing their sword from any lethal action ... if you put yourself at very close range their sword becomes useless
antigen4 What's to stop them? Well you, You have a sword, point the tip at a running opponent and they generally stop running, unless they want to be skewered.
yes sure but i mean if you're at close range like in your video - the closer you get to them the less damage they can do... not unlike being in a fistfight - my instinct was always just to reach in and get them in a headlock... and gosh - it seems to work every time ...
Why would you say, that Hollywood directors show us that fighting crap instead of real life techniques like this in their movies? I think that many people would actually prefer realistic fighting rather than those pointless dances.
I predict that might change in the future, as HEMA is getting more and more popular, and this channel is certainly contributing to that. Who knew about this 20 years ago? I didn't. Hollywood is probably going to catch up eventually
LordPindar As more and more hollywood are able to seek out professonial historical fencers, probably the more realistic it will become basic showing techiques that are designed to fast, accurate, and lethal safetly inevitably places a higher martial demand on a performer than moves designed to be nonlethal in nature.
LordPindar Let's hope so! Yet, as an eternal pessimist (or is it realist), I don't see why they would, as the costs of average to good cgi lowers and lowers, the likelyness that a producer encourages instead hiring decent fencing masters, paying for weeks to months of training for the lead casting to the last of the figurants to be killed in the background, in ortder that they hold their own and don't look out of place amongst correct fighters, If you factor in that it would be costs towards something that might constraint storytelling and nonsensical fight choreography as-usual... Plus the big no no of having the hero perform "unchivallrous" acts such as kneeing an other fellow in the groin, then utterly destroying his eye socket with a jab of his guard, then finishing the dude... Not very family friendly! And that the usual film company exec. considers the spectators as morons that need to be conned twice, once in buying a ticket, then in buying the blu ray, for wich the promotional budget is way more usefull, than to be able to truthfully claim that the fights are plausible, That the same execs prefer yesmen for filmakers over any sort of costly and unobedient guy with an actual vision of what he want to make, besides what comitees and polls have determined the audience "wants".. Besides a modern day Kubrik to force a studio to work towards making a coherent and serious period movie instead of the next marketable product, it makes for a very slim chance! There are exceptions, but in these times of sequels, prequels, rehashes of reboots, of rewhatthefuck of superheroic drivel, the big studios don't seem ready to pull their heads out of their asses yet... I fear that the usual and stupid "Goon A killed with wound off screen, then Goon B, etc, all of them killled in one fell swoop from a to z, with from time to time a micro glimpse of a limb flying off, but nothing to up close... then the big baddie arrives, oh, it toughens, will the hero make it? fleshwound to the hero, who trades it back, bla bla bla, fight starts again, the hero is exhausted, is he done for? the baddie gloats, the hero saves himself last minute, while the baddy says stuff, end of fight scene" still has long years ahead of itself!
I am not trained in any similar way of fighting and i have poor knowledge on the subject. I cant see the use of the technique. A normal person wont let you close in so much, unpunished and if you can force your way through, you have so much more skill that you dont need the technique anyway. Just my humble opinion.
LockSteady Skill to me is like using your personal abilities and resources to a specific manner to achieve goals. The question is, what is a new technique adding to my current way of thinking and portfolio of techniques
MrVasilist Well it's a good thing that you aren't allowed to rewrite the dictionary to fit your own personal agenda. One's general level of athleticism and coordination does not in any way, shape, or form, amount to technically proficient fencing skills.
LockSteady Ok lets not provoke each other and talk like mature adults, cause if you dont want a mature and calm conversation i am afraid i wont participate. 1. a. Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience: painted with great skill. b. A developed talent or ability: improved his writing skills. c. An art, trade, or technique, particularly one requiring use of the hands or body: the skill of glassmaking. How about you see the 1c, with my reasoning? "using your personal abilities and resources (aka hands or body) "to a specific manner" (aka art or technique) to achieve some goals in a specific manner (whatever is the purpose of the art you are practising) Having a general understanding of a word doesnt exactly mean using the exact words, but the exact meaning. I am afraid what you say is not true. General abilities DO matter. The brain doesnt have 100 different ways of running, 1 for basketball, 1 for football and so on. But one general for all activities that is adjusted to every situation depending on the needs and factors. Therefore in a close-quarters fight, afterall, you swing an object with try to land a strike. All styles created by human, are simple ways to refine the natural movements of body, to a better and standard form of fighting. If you feel its not true then you might have different body, i dont know. In the end what i see from others fighting or from me fighting (only boxing though) Its just about utilizing your body to use its natural characteristics, (speed, reflexes, power and so on) in a mix of a standard fighting style and your own free style, to fight in a proper manner. Pretty much that is what is forming your skill. Good night Gentlemen.
MrVasilist Your reading comprehension skills are desperately lacking my mature adult friend. You just outright backed up my original and only assertion: Skill, as you put it, is the result of having learned and practiced effective techniques. There is no other way to obtain "skill". Everything else is a component of competence and proficiency, but they aren't part of the same category. You won't find lines like: "BE STRONG" and "BE COORDINATED" as part of the expert advice imparted by master sword fencers. Instead, they just tell you exactly the right moves to practice, so you can eventually become a skilled fencer.
Oh no, two people disliked :-(
Maybe because my hands didn't fall off with a lightsabre "thrummm" when I grabbed the sword.
Or because it´s a youtube movie about a man repeatedly hitting his wife...
*****
I don't know, I was just offering an other possible explanation.
+fritspas I can't tell if you're joking or not, so if you are joking then I do apologize for this rant ahead of time.
Assuming you're not joking, you're an idiot.
1. How do you know it's his wife?
2. What he is doing is not being physically abusive to her in any way, he is having her help him with a demonstration of a few longsword techniques. He is not hitting her with the sword with any intent to hurt her, they aren't even sparring as a test of each other's skills. He is only having her help him with a techniques demonstration, and for that he has to touch her with the blade sometimes, and not with any real amount of force. He's barely even tapping her with it. Also, she is WEARING PROTECTIVE GEAR. Even though he's just barely tapping her with the blade, he has her wearing protective gear just to make sure she doesn't get hurt. Oh yeah, so horrible.
"lightsabre thrummm"
lmao
My guess is because you suggest dropping your opponents sword after a successful disarm, and not queuing a traditional dual blade super jedi sequence.
The Mystery Swordsman! Nobody knows their name, nobody knows where they came from, nobody has ever seen their face. All we know is that they're available to help with demonstrations in UA-cam videos.
Some say, she once won a fencing competition... with a car antenna. [with apologies to Top Gear...]
Holy crap! At first I thought she was a manakin, then she moved!
lol, I had the same reaction. I feel foolish now.
You're such a good instructor! Thanks!
Fiore dei Liberi - huh, i always heard ''Fury delivery'' :'D
Makes sense swell though
this was my relationship goal, and i've achieved it
She looks very blaise about it for someone who is being used as a longsword demo dummy.
She is used to it.
scholagladiatoria Oh the many ways this could be a dirty joke. xP
Oh she is used to be the "longsword" dummy xD
Get it?
Henry Wang BWAHAHAHA
5:43 of course you need to hold it, now you can dual wield.
A lot of keyboard warriors here!
Before you say this disarms wouldn't work
a) just try for yourself with a weapon or
b) just think for a moment - would a reknown master Fiore put this technique in at least 5 manuscripts made for close kept students and people of power if it would be of NO practical use? :P
Scawking
They do work - the best way to check this out is to actually try this technique :)
But for the sake of argument...
False masters are in fact mentioned in 14cent. treatise "Dobringer codex") but Fiore (as far as we know) did trained some of the most reknowned knights and mercenaries who didn't train for amusement. It would be very unlikely if ppl like Galeazzo Gonzaga (who knew his martial arts well) appointed a man who didn't knew what he was saying and pid him lots of money on daily basis.
So yes - it is possible to be a fraud and make money on teaching bad martial arts- we see that today, ppl saw that 700ys ago - but in case of Fiore taht is highly unlikely.
A lecturer I really like said something phenomenal once: People lived, died and fought by the historical techniques. So if we think something is stupidly designed or inefficient, then we must not be understanding it, or must not be placing it in the proper context.
Scawking That's certainly true but there was a class of warriors that trained with these swords the same way a soldier today trains with a gun, and used it if not as often as a modern soldier at least on occasion in anger (the 20th century is actually way more war-prone than the 16th...)
Just like today it would be silly for an airsoft gun enthusiast to lambaste a soldier's sloppy weapon-work, we have to consider that these people were professionals, and if we think they were doing something silly, from our experience with modern blunted swords and fencing gear on then chances are we are the ones misunderstanding.
Also, our knowledge comes from people that not only fought with swords but saw a great deal of sword combat. We get descriptions like Fiore describing the "peasant's strike" where an inexpert swordsman swung straight down with all his might, and how easily it was defeated, learned from watching what an amateur does when handed a longsword.
These people fought as they trained, and trained as if their lives depended on it, because they did. And the men training them were experienced in watching real mortal combat (Fiore was a noted military commander, for instance), and practicing it themselves.
This is why keyboard masamunes are silly in my opinion. If it was a dumb idea it wouldn't have been taught by men respected for hundreds of years for their command of combat. And in addition we wouldn't see so many similarities among the great teachers of the art.
Scawking Yes, it *is* silly. Unless you can show why the technique is sloppy, and I mean SHOW it via a video (which is so simple these days you truly have no excuse, if you got the means to train, you have someone to train with, you have someone to at least record what you do or can record yourself. SOMETHING)
So show, don't tell. Good rule of thumb here.
@Cipher He wouldnt be renowned swordmaster then. Reason why modern bullshido schools instructor gets away with it is that they teach people who dont know anything about fighting and so on. Fiore taught people who already knew sword fighting the professional soldiers of that time. If someone back then would try to train some bs to students like Fiore had they would immediately call them out. Their lives literally depended upon that they could trust their training. Fiore himself had at least 5 duels on his life time. He also wasnt just teacher he was guy who got insane amounts of money to train people past typical level of martial training. Obviously its easy for some random guy in modern time to teach bs swordfighting because we dont live surrounded by people carrying swords. Fiore in other hand not only lived in enviroment where every guy on his social class carrying swords, but also the other swordmasters who competed Fiores position, and money of his students.
Nice tutorial. Your partner did a good job. I've taught in little rooms with hardly any space. It's a challenge even without trying to stay on camera. It seems as if some people have to be critical as a way of bolstering their egos. They should be impressed. Two grown adults, with long swords no less, staying in frame. Along with a solid explanation and demo. Well done.
You demonstrate the interplay of the moves quite well here. I keep on expecting your assistant to bomp you on the head when you turn your back though... :)
I laughed when Matt hit the person (I'm guessing his wife) acting as a test dummy the first time. He seemed to enjoy it lol
This is great! Thank you so much for the step by step tips. I wish more instructional videos broke things down like this. Thanks so much
But if you want to end them rightly you have to unscrew the pommel and throw it at them.
Epicgamerbro2000 You caused me to burst into laughter. People are staring.
NERD ALERT!
I used to LARP during my teens, 20's and early 30's. I was the only one in any of the larping I did (that I was aware of anyway, and I'd larped all over the country from California to New York, and everywhere in between) who'd figured out how to do a disarm with a boffer without having to lay hands on my opponent. I tried to teach it to a couple of others, but they never got the hang of it.
My disarm worked along the same principle, though I never did it from a bind. I would wait for my opponent to strike down at me from a particular angle from their upper right, across me to my lower right. I would parry hard to my right (their left), then turn it into a swift circular motion, down and back around to my left, directing the point of their sword below their own hand and hard back behind them. It would strip the sword right out of their hand and send it flying. It was awesome.
That's the hottest interactive dummy i've ever seen
biomechanics of fighting with long weapons like these are so fascinating because any lever action is magnified by the length. there's so much to work with.
Another great demonstration video! I hope to see more in the future! :D
Thanks for the video! It was very informative. As a matter of form and presentation you might consider introducing the person assisting you with the demonstration, then thanking them on camera afterwards.
Maybe they don't want to be introduced and have people know who they are, but thanking them would be good (which i think he does in other videos, but he just refers to her as "my assistant")
Your channel is really cool. The mix of facts, experience and detail is amazing…thanks for sharing all this. Im a big fan of military history and this channel really brings to life the man to man part of fighting.
As someone who has begun studying fiore, this is insanely useful thank you
God Damn, her posture is beautiful-
And thank you for this vid, I was really hoping to see a disarm video after watching your other video of you teaching. Why have we never seen such moves in hollywood movies?? It looks cool and it's practical :)
Fiore catagorizes pommels the way the japanese did for how many bodies a blade can cut through. They would say "This is a 3 body blade"
Fiore is like "This is an 8 tooth pommel. But we also stock a nice nimble 4 tooth pommel if you prefer"
Great I really enjoyed this.
your partner - holy woman in her patience!!! =)
would be so awesome seeing a movie swordfight ending with this combo!
OHMai - I thought the dark figure was a fighting dummy until it started to move on its own!!!
Another great video by scholagladiatoria, as always it is packed with information not just out of books but ideas that obviously are very much alive in your daily practice. But as far as these techniques are concerned, do such moves really are seen used in the sparring practice of your school? Thank you
Thanks for watching :-)
James?
!! I thought Matt's opponent was a statue! Way to stand perfectly still there.
Always interesting and historically correct, judging from the illustrations in medieval and Renaissance fighting manuals. Even grabbing the opponent's blade and grabbing one's own blade are documented techniques. For those who don't believe me, or Schola, just do a google image search with "medieval fighting manuals two-handed sword" and you'll see.
A fine video, as usual. Great stuff.
only curious, but who's the girl?
My assumption would be one of his students.
Mrs Scholagladiatoria perhaps?
Nah, but in truth I don't know.
That was a girl? I thought she was an interactive test dummy LOL.
She looks a bit nervous to be on camera. Her eyes are looking outside/away most of the time.
Nice video, I would love to learn how to disarm an opponent with a long blade/stick/weapon using my bare hands.
I know your point was talking about disarms or strikes while tied up with your opponent's blade, but I always wondered why the guys in movies didn't try to headbutt or knee each other during those moments. It's always bothered me considering how most of the time they're well within "knocking out someone's teeth with your forehead" distance, and lots of times nobody is wearing a helmet.
holy fuck, i thought that was a mannequin behind him until she suddenly moved. startled the shit out of me!
I wonder how effective is letting one hand free and letting your sword slop so you can counter with your free hand? like a punch to the face I guess if they have dropped their sword.
also, I think the directional investment of arm strength is probably a good thing to point out in grappling/bind, if you are exerting force in one direction, then you have little resistance to forces in other directions
So many of these are exactly the same in the HtH martial art I study. The pulling back to prevent the tap on he head especially works great if done w/a hooking hand and some abruptness, as it can pull the enemy out of their stance, or at least force an overreach. Pity, that the sword has no inverse edge and cannot hook. Would an axe allow it? Not that one can easily parry w/an axe.
Moves such as this done in a real show or movie would be really cool to see. They can even pause to talk, I don't care but do that. Could they remove one of their hands and pull away though? I suppose that won't stop the disarm. Just wondering.
I would love to see a movie were both the protagonist and the antagonist end in that position and the antagonist says something evil, instead of the protagonist saying something he just makes one of this moves and finishes him off. Finally, as the antagonist lies in the ground in his final breath the protagonist says something.
farrex0 Protagonist: "Yeeeaaah, you really shouldn't talk during a swordfight"
Very interesting. God I love learning things. But here's a question: have you ever seen anyone do this successfully in competition?
Yes several times and I have disarmed people in a few competitions, though it's not my preferred range to fight at. However, remember that these are techniques from original medieval treatises - they actually work better against someone who is trying to kill you than against someone who is playing in competition.
scholagladiatoria do you generally tll your students to train with intention to make the trtaining of techneques like disarms and put downs make more sence ?
Well... the pommel to the face may not be that lethal... but the pommel - or the crossguard to the temple... now that's quite deadly!
Brillian! Very interesting techniques. I also liked the one you used in your last video, where you disarmed your opponent by twisting the sword under him. Do you have a close up of that?
Interesting vid. She didn't seem to care though hehe.
Or maybe she is timid, and doesn't want us youtubers to mind her whilst she helps her teacher?
(if so, her plan might have not worked, as many seem to wonder who she in the comments of the two videos she appears in as of now!)
Congrats on enabling clear viewing of these techniques, mysterious girl!
Ah, and don't be shy, the Intertubes are known to be a friendly, nice, warm and fuzzy place full of tro... hahem, friendly people!
(Although in all seriousness, I must say these premises are amongst the most polite and best frequented around youtube)
Yeah I gotcha guys. I was just poking fun a little bit. ;)
+Morgoth Bauglir I agree entirely. Though willing partners can be *ahem* hard to come by.
You might have answered this in another video, but when you grapple with the sword you touch the blade portion of it. What sorts of techniques do you use to make that safe for your hand?
I feel like that might be possible either because you assume you'd be wearing hand protection as if it were a real fight, you hold it tight enough so no cutting motion can happen, or maybe cuts will happen in real life but its worth the injuries to win the fight. Did I miss anything and/or were any of those impressions wrong?
Awesome :)
Haha "I'll only be in your video if I can wear a mask so that there is no chance of someone recognising me in the streets." Cheers Matt, great vid.
@5:24 when you had your pommel against her sword, why didn't she just rotate the sword slightly and lop off your finger?
That could very well happen in an actual sword fight, but that maneuver (bind, pommel strike, block, drop sword, grab opponents sword and disarm them) would happen extremely fast you wouldn't have long to do anything . . . but there are counters to most techniques and counters to those counters etc...
sure
My dude, your videos are awesome as ''homework'' after the classes. But I have one question tho. Why do your feders shine so much? Don't you sandpaper them against rust and pigmentation? How do you maintain them so beautifully?
Very interesting Sir Matt! Thnx for the video , but i have some questions:
Dont u think that dropping ur sword and engaging an armed opponent is too risky in a real fight ?
What would happen if your opponent is stronger than you ? i mean he wont let you disarm him easiy ,also i believe that physical strength is very importatnt in grappling
Thnx for answering :)
I'm more interested in Filipino arts which have whole series of flows to teach how to handle different reactions/resistence, the medieval arts won't be any different. He was really only giving an intro to the subject.
Matt could probably explain thousands of different ways to handle that situation, the first would pommel strike him to stun him then manuever forward in such away away so that I'm passing ahead of him, pivot and stab are cut him in the back, or stun strike half sword and stab him.
When you drop the weapon, you are already in control of theirs. As for strength and relative wrestling skills - this is something to decide during the fight. Obviously if I think my opponent is better at wrestling than me and I do not see an easy opportunity, then generally I am not going to risk it. But you could say similar of any technique in any situation.
scholagladiatoria ,
Thanks for the correction, like you have pointed out and several others, their is vulnerability in every techinque and smashing somone in the side of the face then dropping their weapon and grabbing theirs is alot diffrent from walking up to someone and trying to wrecth their weapon out of their hands
Imagine if you had a sword that had a vertical spike about an (inch or two give or take in length) on the end of the pommel. I would think a design like that would be great for counters like these as it would allow you to stab the opponent in the eye, neck, head, etc at close range.
The only drawback I could see would be it would probably work best on a one-handed sword and there might be a slight danger of stabbing yourself or having the opponent grab your sword and thrust the spike into you, but I think all of that can be compensated for with training.
Thoughts?
+savagenature1 Are you thinking of something like this:
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ms.Thott.290.2%C2%BA_107v.jpg
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ms.Thott.290.2%C2%BA_108r.jpg
From Talhoffers manual in 1459. =)
I don't know if swords like these ever was made, but it was at least though of in the context of judicial duels.
I would not like to have a spike on my pommel for a regular sword however, as it would be a real pain to wear it.
gurkfisk89 No, that's a lot more bulky than what I had in mind. I would see it as looking like the last inch or two of the sword's blade and it wouldn't be attached to a round pommel. You know spikes that come out of Blade's sword? www.google.com/search?q=blade%27s+sword&safe=active&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CB0QsARqFQoTCISZk5LVj8gCFQFNGgodgWYPrA&biw=1366&bih=667
Imagine one of those sticking out of the other end of the hilt
A question about the bind:
As I understand it, you're supposed to parry with the flat of the blade to avoid edge damage. Does binding edge-to-edge produce edge damage of similar severity? Or is it simply considered reasonable wear-and-tear that a blade will experience in use?
Parrying with the flat is the exception, not the rule.
*****
Even parrying edge to edge, you parry with the forte or at worst the midst, so you're not really damaging the part you're going to cut with anyway.
*****
Of course, my point was that because you do parry with the forte, the part of the edge that you cut with is preserved. Not that you parry with the forte to preserve the edge.
If you get a lock up that close, isn't kicking or grappling also very efficient. Getting your opponent off balance, staggering back maybe even falling, seems like a very good way to open them up for a finishing cut?
LarsaXL Kicks put you at risk, because they put you off balance. Especially when done up close. There is a very real risk of simply being pushed over backwards when you have one leg up. Not to mention the fact that plastic soccer shin guards are a joke compared to plate mail shin, and knee armor. You'd be lucky to even notice the kick, same goes for a punch to someone wearing a plate helmet. Only worse, you've taken one hand off your sword and no longer have leverage, while your opponent has not, and because you chose to kick and punch instead of grabbing at their weapon, they're so free in fact that they can now beat at your weak grip and then strike you mortally.
Good point, kicks are very risky and is pretty much useless against armor.
Grappling however can be useful if done correctly. Letting go of your sword with one hand can be worth the risk if it enables you to better manipulate your opponent.
One thing I have found to work in HEMA class is to let go of the sword with one hand and quickly push on their arm, which either spins them around and allows a one handed drawcut to their core targets and exposes their backs for a killing attack. Or it simply pushes their sword enough of line to allow me to get inside their effective range, if I am that close it is very difficult for both of us tu use the blade, but easy enough for me to simply punch them in the face with the gard or pommel of my sword. Since most antique helmets don't protect the face that well, and many people did not wear helmets at all, that would be quite devastating.
LarsaXL Yes. Which is why this video is about grappling techniques. Not kicking and punching. As for your assertion that warriors didn't wear helmets, (a truly preposterous assertion considering what we know from archeology dating all the way back to the bronze age). but whatever, for the sake of argument, let's pretend you're right. So what? Since when did you become Mike Tyson? Since when were all ancient warriors Mike Tyson? They weren't supermen. As for boxing, gosh, even barehanded it's only the punch you don't see coming that truly has a good chance for any kind of knock-out potential.You slug a warrior in the face while his blood is hot and he still has both hands on his weapon and you're going to die when he responds a split second later.
@@LarsaXL What you've described is actually one of Fiore's techniques haha. nice.
Just once I'd like to see a movie where the protagonist and his opponent go into that classic sword lock and the opponent is about to go into the cliche speech about how the hero won't win. At that point, the hero pommels them in the face and then chops their head open. After that the hero simply continues on his way to save the world.
+Marshall Monti you'd like Berzerk
redrounin "Berzerk: The Golden Age" from 2012? I'll check it out.
Nice burka, where did you buy it?
Instead of completely dropping the sword on the first capture, why not just grab the pommel w/ the left hand and still use your hilt to leverage the disarm?
Dropping a sword can certainly be beneficial in some situations, and here it would afford greater control when capturing the opposing weapon, but it also makes the capture a deadly necessity rather than an opportunity. Are there counter-applications that make it unwise to hold onto your sword?
I can't believe you got your wife to do this with you
Why? You shall never marry a person that don't encourage your own level of craziness
Sadly, there's not enough women out there who are willing to practice sword taking techniques to go around.
Join a hema club I seen many a woman in my club most are married already or they go on different days
\o/
Those seem rather ambitious to me. It looks like you have to be a good deal faster than your opponent to grab his sword after dropping yours.
Can you use these techniques with Japanese and Chinese swords as well or only with European swords ?
Why is the blade much wider very close to the hilt?
What is the protective gear you are wearing?
The disarm at around 4:40. Would you realistically be able to drop your sword and grab theirs in time before they could hurt you with their weapon?
It's a surprise move. Plays on incredulity.
AncientBlitzkrieg Like TSO said, it is a surprise move, and can be done very quickly. Plus you can grip their blade before you let go of your own sword to be a little safer. (and then you can grip their pommel for the full disarm.)
AncientBlitzkrieg Any technique has a counter to it. There is no such thing as "there is nothing he can do....." but the question is if you are able to pull the counter....
yup
what do you think of HBO's Game of Thrones combat scenes??
ok, now i see how the technique should work in this video. 1 you using both hands with longer leverage against opponent's shorter leverage. 2 using stronger biceps and elbow trap your opponent wrist.
in last video was kinda confusing, because i oberserving you repeatly taking away the sword with one hand and shorter leverage againt opponent's both hand with longer leverage.
Ty assistant n.n
What if two people perform the same technique at the same time, such as both striking to the head in a strong-strong bind?
She doesn't look all too happy if I'm honest
I have a question. In tournaments are you allowed to use a longsword without schilts?
+Jonathan Collins Yes.
+scholagladiatoria So I'm starting on HEMA soon, I prob will find it out there but either way just curious, in Tournaments ofc may depend on different tournaments, but are you allowed to move in and disarm them if you are able to? Aswell as to wrestle them to the ground? Aswell as using the pommel strike like you did?
And what happens if the person doing the disarm is lefthanded? because that is the problem i usually have when i try to do any technique that requires releasing the support hand from the grip, which is my right hand, and it comes out very wrong for me in the end.
DAVID URQUIETA This disarm relies on crossing the opponent's wrists, so there are various ways you can achieve that from either side and with either hand - just experiment with a willing partner :-)
How much does this training sword weights?
she seems so intimidated. she could've at least eased his shoulders a bit so that it doesn't look like she's been obligated to do that. Nice video and info anyway ^^
How about bunching or kicking? especially if you are strong, would that work in an actual fight? and did they use historically?
I don't know about punches apart from with the pommel/crossguard and so on. For the most parts, you have other things to do with your hands like controling your own oryour opponents blade. Trying to knock someone out with a fist when you have sharp steel in your hands seems like a waste of energy. =)
Kicks on the other hand is more common. There are some kicks to the knees for example, and the groin ofc. And I think that it's Talhoffer that shows a frontkick to the torso when the swords are in a high bind. More fancy kicks wouldn't work as great as it's difficult to do them and use your sword at the same time and if your kick is blocked by a sword, you would just hurt your own leg.
Thanks.
As to bunching, I mainly thought about it if you had an opportunity, like if your swords are crossed to the far right or left and your spare hand is just sitting on your chest at that time, or something like that, even though you would normally hold the sword with it, and you saw an opportunity to get a good bunch, assuming you through a good bunch, would that be a be a good idea in a sword fight? especially against an unhelmeted,visor up or no visor, opponent?
Seallussus
If you get an opportunity, then absolutley, go for it. And even if you don't hit very hard, it is still distracting.
Thanks. this is really useful
As for kicks, stepping on someone's ankle from the side can be devastating if done right.
When he put his sword down did anyone else shout to his 'training dummy' "Kill him! Kill him now!"?
For some reason I always have this reaction when I see someone training with another person to educate an audience. That at some time the 'training dummy' will strike. Maybe sooner, maybe later, maybe when you are asleep in your bed ... but they're coming for you.
What happens if they take their back hand off once their wrists cross?
+Robert R Then you start a fist fight.
+Robert R I would imagine continue with the disarm. the wrists can only turn so much before loosing grip, and if they only have one hand on the weapon it becomes much easier for you to manipulate. you want to watch the other hand though - they might be pulling out a dagger or attempting something else to disrupt you
+Robert R Probably pommel them some more.
Dropping the sword sounds very risky, no?
Sorry for the 3 year late response. While it does have certain risk to drop your weapon, at that close range and if you are fast enough you can easily get away with it and use the technique. Also you have to remember that an that time everybody was armed with a dagger plus the main weapon, so they were not completely useless without it
It's one of those things you do once you have already passed the point where they can't hurt you. If you drop your sword too early they will strike you. You do it after you have already removed their ability to do so. This could be as Matt shows where they are busy in the parry, or it could be a grab of the arm, or any other motion that prevents them from attacking, even if only for a split second.
what happen when you try to disarm somebody stronger than you or way stronger
Don't try it unless either 1) you have to, or 2) they mess up somehow. Simple really.
scholagladiatoria so the technique itself don't provide much mechanical advantage against some body stronger than you
Why would youtry a disarm that involves disarming yourself to do it? Couldn't that leave you vulnerable to getting punched or kneed by your opponent then cut with your own sword?
You should have their sword in your hands by this point already swinging for a kill.
Because you're only attempting this after you've already gotten the initiative, if not outright control of the weapon. There is the chance it might not succeed spectacularly, sure, but there is literally no move in a "real" fight that might not leave you "vulnerable" somehow. At some point you have to accept the risk of loss of life and limb, or you're just going to be perpetually backstepping. One who dares, wins.
And regardless even if you don't successfully wrest the sword completely out of your opponent's hands, you have the initiative in what is effectively a grapple anyway.
yeah,but a sword, along with being a striking instrument, can also serve as a great big lever. It wouldn't be able to grip as easily as using both hands but it to fail at the grapple or disarm, simply buy utilizing the lever capabilities of the sword in one hand and the grabbing capabilities in of the free hand, if you fail you still have a killing tool and if you sucessfully didsiarm, grapple, you can still do the deed with your own sword. Good points. I guess just not a aggressive enough person to follow Fiore style longsword fencing
***** The word initiative was not coined by Dungeons and Dragons nor totally appropriated by it such that it invalidates any use for the term outside of that context; it's bewildering that you think I'm engaging in a discussion about martial arts using table top gaming language at all. In the entire sequence being described the person disarming has the initiative - the confidence in initiating action - precisely because as you said, the opponent has been forced to commit their body to certain positions. Yes they're both actively reacting at the same time, but the move to drop the weapon to disarm the opponent is made with the attacker having an expectation that they will be able to act inside their opposite's tempo.
***** Initiative is usually used to denote who has control of tempo and movement at a given time. In Go, for instance, this principle is called Sente, being able to make a move outside of reacting to an opponent.
By striking in the Vor, one can seize the initiative, and force your opponent to react to you. If the attacked reacts successfully to a strike, they can counter the initiative, opening strikes in the Nach, or even gain it for themselves in the Indes.
Countering initiative is a very valid fighting style, akin to counter-punching in boxing, or pulling guard in Jiu Jitsu. The only problem I find is that, against an equally or more skilled opponent, granting initiative can allow them to put you in positions you do not want to be in. Being taller and more athletic than most (6'3, 190 lbs 38'' vertical jump and 17:54 three miles when I get in shape), I prefer to strike from power positions, allowing me to control the tempo and range of a fight.
"I'm so gonna divorce this guy" :D
Seems like this technique could be equally useful with muskets, rifles, and other long firearms. Plus you'd get to offend with your butt in their face. ;)
Fist...no, wait...first!!!
HEMA stig!
seriously - what's to stop someone from just 'ranging in' and just starting to wrestle with the opponent? ... thereby preventing their sword from any lethal action ... if you put yourself at very close range their sword becomes useless
antigen4 What's to stop them? Well you, You have a sword, point the tip at a running opponent and they generally stop running, unless they want to be skewered.
yes sure but i mean if you're at close range like in your video - the closer you get to them the less damage they can do... not unlike being in a fistfight - my instinct was always just to reach in and get them in a headlock... and gosh - it seems to work every time ...
It will if you throw it!
It will end him rightly!!!
his wife said nothing at all in the entire vid
Why would you say, that Hollywood directors show us that fighting crap instead of real life techniques like this in their movies? I think that many people would actually prefer realistic fighting rather than those pointless dances.
I predict that might change in the future, as HEMA is getting more and more popular, and this channel is certainly contributing to that. Who knew about this 20 years ago? I didn't. Hollywood is probably going to catch up eventually
LordPindar
As more and more hollywood are able to seek out professonial historical fencers, probably the more realistic it will become basic showing techiques that are designed to fast, accurate, and lethal safetly inevitably places a higher martial demand on a performer than moves designed to be nonlethal in nature.
LordPindar
Let's hope so!
Yet, as an eternal pessimist (or is it realist),
I don't see why they would, as the costs of average to good cgi lowers and lowers, the likelyness that a producer encourages instead hiring decent fencing masters, paying for weeks to months of training for the lead casting to the last of the figurants to be killed in the background, in ortder that they hold their own and don't look out of place amongst correct fighters,
If you factor in that it would be costs towards something that might constraint storytelling and nonsensical fight choreography as-usual...
Plus the big no no of having the hero perform "unchivallrous" acts such as kneeing an other fellow in the groin, then utterly destroying his eye socket with a jab of his guard, then finishing the dude... Not very family friendly!
And that the usual film company exec. considers the spectators as morons that need to be conned twice, once in buying a ticket, then in buying the blu ray, for wich the promotional budget is way more usefull, than to be able to truthfully claim that the fights are plausible,
That the same execs prefer yesmen for filmakers over any sort of costly and unobedient guy with an actual vision of what he want to make, besides what comitees and polls have determined the audience "wants"..
Besides a modern day Kubrik to force a studio to work towards making a coherent and serious period movie instead of the next marketable product, it makes for a very slim chance!
There are exceptions, but in these times of sequels, prequels, rehashes of reboots, of rewhatthefuck of superheroic drivel, the big studios don't seem ready to pull their heads out of their asses yet...
I fear that the usual and stupid "Goon A killed with wound off screen, then Goon B, etc, all of them killled in one fell swoop from a to z, with from time to time a micro glimpse of a limb flying off, but nothing to up close... then the big baddie arrives, oh, it toughens, will the hero make it? fleshwound to the hero, who trades it back, bla bla bla, fight starts again, the hero is exhausted, is he done for? the baddie gloats, the hero saves himself last minute, while the baddy says stuff, end of fight scene" still has long years ahead of itself!
Instead of whacking their teeth out, why not poke them in the eye with the guard? :D
***** That's another option of many.
Why is your wife wearing a burkha?
I am not trained in any similar way of fighting and i have poor knowledge on the subject. I cant see the use of the technique. A normal person wont let you close in so much, unpunished and if you can force your way through, you have so much more skill that you dont need the technique anyway. Just my humble opinion.
MrVasilist Skill, as you put it, is the result of having learned and practiced effective techniques. There is no other way to obtain "skill".
LockSteady Skill to me is like using your personal abilities and resources to a specific manner to achieve goals. The question is, what is a new technique adding to my current way of thinking and portfolio of techniques
MrVasilist Well it's a good thing that you aren't allowed to rewrite the dictionary to fit your own personal agenda. One's general level of athleticism and coordination does not in any way, shape, or form, amount to technically proficient fencing skills.
LockSteady Ok lets not provoke each other and talk like mature adults, cause if you dont want a mature and calm conversation i am afraid i wont participate.
1.
a. Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience: painted with great skill.
b. A developed talent or ability: improved his writing skills.
c. An art, trade, or technique, particularly one requiring use of the hands or body: the skill of glassmaking.
How about you see the 1c, with my reasoning? "using your personal abilities and resources (aka hands or body) "to a specific manner" (aka art or technique) to achieve some goals in a specific manner (whatever is the purpose of the art you are practising)
Having a general understanding of a word doesnt exactly mean using the exact words, but the exact meaning.
I am afraid what you say is not true. General abilities DO matter. The brain doesnt have 100 different ways of running, 1 for basketball, 1 for football and so on. But one general for all activities that is adjusted to every situation depending on the needs and factors. Therefore in a close-quarters fight, afterall, you swing an object with try to land a strike. All styles created by human, are simple ways to refine the natural movements of body, to a better and standard form of fighting.
If you feel its not true then you might have different body, i dont know. In the end what i see from others fighting or from me fighting (only boxing though) Its just about utilizing your body to use its natural characteristics, (speed, reflexes, power and so on) in a mix of a standard fighting style and your own free style, to fight in a proper manner. Pretty much that is what is forming your skill.
Good night Gentlemen.
MrVasilist Your reading comprehension skills are desperately lacking my mature adult friend. You just outright backed up my original and only assertion: Skill, as you put it, is the result of having learned and practiced effective techniques. There is no other way to obtain "skill". Everything else is a component of competence and proficiency, but they aren't part of the same category. You won't find lines like: "BE STRONG" and "BE COORDINATED" as part of the expert advice imparted by master sword fencers. Instead, they just tell you exactly the right moves to practice, so you can eventually become a skilled fencer.