John just got to watch your video. Seriously well impressed by your brilliant sling design and how effective it was. Very important to highlight the dangerous side of life afloat
We are doing a follow-up on this because it will make it clearer how we have enhanced the sling further. Also a few questions kept coming up again and again so.....
That's all very interesting. Whatever method people use, as you found out, it's important to practice until you find a method which works. I found that having a boarding loop, a rope with a piece of water hose over a section, when put over the edge of the tender made climbing in that much easier. Of course, you won't always have the tender handy when someone falls in.
Hello! I just discovered your nice channel, and yes I think you cover interesting topics all the time. I am retiring in six months, have a small 30 foot sailboat that I am upgrading for a semi live aboard life.I appreciate your videos, tips and tricks and follow you with pleasure. Greetings, Tony
I literally have nightmares about one of us going overboard. We just have the two of us on our 41' Beneteau and my husband is twice the size of me, i really don't think i could get him back on board. We always wear our lifejackets and they are good ones with a hood. It constantly amazes me how many fellow sailors do not wear lifejackets. Great video ladies, reminds us all to think about our safety and MOB procedures.
Glad you enjoyed it. Like you, we felt a need to know that we could actually manage to get one of us back aboard if the other went over. At least we now have a solution that gives us a chance of it working.
Thought provoking video, well done. As an ex full-time regular Coastguard officer (many years ago, 1980's) this is a subject I have thought about alot and so far I can only think that the best one can do is to have a number of available options easily accessible and available to deploy for the crew member on board (no good if one is a solo sailor) at a moments notice For example and in addition to the usual MOB safety equipment and immediate mayday call; 1) a handy-billy to provide purchasing power for the person on board to use, 2) rescue sling, 3) a suitable jacobs ladder to deploy, 4) a short paddle board or belly board with line attached kept on deck,......but none of these solve the problem of an unconscious or injured casuality or casuality who just cannot get back onboard. I can only think to keep the casuality atttached and close to the hull until the rescue helicopter and/or lifeboat arrives. I know it makes sense to wear a lifejacket at all times whilst on deck but the downside is if you are in the water with an inflated lifejacket it is almost impossible to get back on board. unless you are a very fit, conscious and a strong person. I don't want to be morbid but I understand the data indicates that only about 30% of MOB incidents/casualities are rescued. A sobering thought. Prevention is of course the answer but even the most experienced, knowledgeable and qualified sailors have fallen foul. I am going to watch your video again with the safety sling, a good idea, thank you.
Thank you for such a detailed and thought provoking reply. We decided to go for the most daunting situation of all - the unconscious casualty on the grounds that if we can rescue that person then all the other ones would be easier. On our boat, inflatable lifejackets are mandatory (our choice, not the law here) and we check and service those lifejackets each year. We also wear clothing appropriate to the conditions, have safety lines aboard, MOB buttons on equipment, etc. We understand that the odds are against us but we are determined to shorten the odds to be more in our favour. BTW, the video following this one shows the alterations we made as a result of this exercise. Thanks again 👍
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass Totally agree with you and yes lifejackets being mandatory. I came across on ebay the following you might be interested in looking at; "NEW Man Over Board Recovery Sling MOB Parbuckle RIB Boat Safety Rescue Recovery".......mind you it is about £500.
The best solution is to be always clipped on and never go overboard. Like they saying goes there are old sailors and there are bold sailors but there are no old bold sailors. interesting experiment all the same, well done for testing it out👍
Spot on Boaty Folks. Made me think. Well worth saying and a real myth buster. I wish inland waterway boaters would watch this vblog, most don't even wear life jackets.
Most canals are so shallow you can stand up in them, so maybe it is less of an issue. Rivers and such are different and folks should really be wearing lifejackets in our opinion. Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for commenting
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass Actually there is the thermal shock to think of and you may have gone into the water unconscious. When I went over the handle bars of my bike, I slid along the wet grass and into the cut without so much of a ripple. I then found the walls of the canal to be so nicely made there was no way I could get out. The G&S canal is 16 miles London, 16 metres wide, 16 feet deep and has 16 bridges. I am a good swimmer but I was stuffed. Had to wait for my friend to come and get me. It's not only locks where folk die on the cut.
@@paulroberts5677 - that is why we have thermal gear aboard. It increases survival time from 10 minutes in winter waters up to two hours. We usually wear it for winter passages both to stay warm and in case one of us goes in. I am glad you survived your canal "swim". Water is a dangerous substance.
Very athletic Beverley hopping over the cabin door. Interesting the rope step was a fail. I was always relaxed on using that as my go to. I like the net my only issue is the setup as you say which could be difficult but that was very effective. Well done Gaynor for being a Guinea Pig. As usual very informative.
Great subject, often talked about, but never practiced. Id like to make a suggestion. If you attach a pulley to the bottom of the mast facing forward, run the halyard through it to the windless rope drum. I’m not sure what windless you have, mines has rope drum opposite side of the gypsy. It would be a lot easier on the person on the winch handle, possibly quicker as well.
We have never thought about the windlass because anything associated with anchor use is usually considered risky (because of the forces involved). Your idea of using the pulley is one that we have not heard before. Given the responses the video has generated, we are considering doing a follow-up video. Thanks for the suggestion and commenting.
Great Video. Thank you for making the time and effort to highlight this issue. Nobody plans to go overboard and bodily reactions of a conscious person are severely hampered by sea state, cold water and tiredness if several attempts to recover are required. I hope viewers will be prompted to consider their actions and to practice various scenarios in a safe and controlled manner before having to do this for real in much less favourable conditions.
We will also be doing a follow-up on this to answer some of the questions raised in the comments. We're glad you liked the video and hopefully it will help reduce your "workload" 😉 We feel that we got a lot out of practising this for the video so we agree that it is worth doing 👍
I'm seriously impressed by your commitment in the interest of safety. Here's a wee story which might help to emphasise the importance of this subject. I travelled across the Atlantic many moons ago aboard one of Her Majesty's Commando carriers. I had a conversation with the ship's diver who had been tasked as Lifebuoy sentry during a replenishment at sea. In this process various stores, including Mail, are transferred from one ship to another via breeches buoy - long bits of thick string from one vessel to the other! The mail pallet wasn't secure and a bag went in the oggin. He was instructed to go overboard and stay with the bag until it, and he, were collected by a helicopter. He said afterwards it was his first time in mid-ocean and alone. He swam to the bag and made himself secure. He then said he looked around but from his level a few inches above sea-level he could only see about 4/500 yards and only when at the top of a wave. As he said by the time he got to the bag he had no idea what direction the ship had gone although he could hear the noise of the engines gradually get fainter. Wearing a dry-suit and lots of layers he said he was physically reasonably comfortable but started to think... Did I hear the order correctly? Should I have gone over? Did my mate watch me or was he daydreaming? Do they know I'm here? After 10 minutes he said he had decided he was changing his specialisation and was going for something less challenging - if he survived. After 15 minutes he heard the noise of the helicopter and 5 minutes later he and the bag were on their way back to the ship. He said he kissed the crewman who dragged him into the door of the Wessex...! According to Wikipedia... "From 2000-2018, 284 people have gone overboard or fallen off cruise ships and a further 41 have fallen off large ferries. In any given month, approximately two people go overboard." The scary bit, "Between 17 percent and 25 percent of people who go overboard are rescued." So on average in a year 24 folk will take an unintentional bath. Between 4 and 6 will survive. 18 to 20 will not... What a cheerful thought... Not. Rule 1. of sailing. DO NOT FALL OVERBOARD. There are no more rules... Well done ladies.
He was a braver person than me. I would have dumped a smoke marker over the side first and waited for the helicopter to take me to it 😄 Thanks for the compliment and for sharing your story.
A sling with top and bottom piece of wood, 2"x3" to keep the sling in a rectangular shape would probably be easier to enter, plus it could be rolled up for storage without tangling.
You might well be right and it would certainly be simpler, but it is all done and dusted now. Nonetheless, if it ever needs replacing your idea may still have its day. Thanks for the tip 👍
Now that is as a very interesting video. Am going to have to rethink my recovery procedures. I think I will look at your sling method which as you say works very well. I may well look at adopting some canvas for the purpose.
Make sure you leave holes in the canvas for the water to drain away 😄 We will be adding a section to this week's video about the changes we have made as a result of this test. Also we have a "blueprint" on our website at www.saltylass.co.uk/sling-design
There would be a greater lift height with the fixed point closer to the winch. The mob or wob would need another rope, a sheet end say, to hold until high enought to hold the toerail. Weight of wet clothes are significant. Someone I know fell off a fishing boat in winter and he was wearing lots of layers, it took three strong crew to haul him out (he gave up fishing after that). The lifesling seems efficient but I'd guess the casualty would be dunked a few times like one of those teabags on a string in any sea with the boat rolling.
Brilliant! If you want a guide to start you off on the project I have included a link to our website and the "blueprint" we used. Also, we did have to add something like a batten to ensure the centre of the webbing is easier for the casualty to float into. www.saltylass.co.uk/sling-design
Very good! Not everyone will try that. One method I was told from a dinghy is to, holding the head of the casualty out of water the best as possible, pull one leg first in the dinghy, then the other, pull it a bit inwhile holding the arms so the torso is floating out the water. Then using your own body weight pull the two arms up, while you are failing back, and you got the casualty in. It is very difficult to explain especially with my broken English but I tried in a big rib and I managed
There is nothing wrong with your English Xavi - it is way, way better than my French or Spanish 😄 The main problem we faced was just the sheer weight of the person because of the water, so your method might work. In this case Gaynor weighs more than me and a soaking Gaynor weighs a LOT more than me, so I do wonder if my own weight would able to counter her wet weight. Nonetheless, we might try it in the summer, but not this week 😄😄😄
@SailingYachtSaltyLass yes I know. But with the legs already inside the dinghy, you only need to pull up her upper body, and she will end up sitting in the rib. But yes, it's not easy. And do not try it now! 🥶
We did a couple of similar trials with my wife winching me back aboard. I came out looking like a smurf after sliding up the blue antifouling. I found it pretty painful being winched back aboard with a lifejacket digging into my ribs too.
Thank heavens for our coppercoat, at least it spares us from smurfdom!!! We tried the winch method just lying on the side decks and it hurt enough that we discounted that. We were dry. A wet person would weigh even more and the pain must be intense.
Fascinating. I think in reality (broken ribs or not) lifting with the body harness on a halyard is more an option with any sort of chop. Even hove too in the lee spot you have to get hold of casualty (boat hook) to gain control. Tie off the casualty, then get the sling and then try and deploy it, it all takes time. The halyard is there and will work. ? Well done for trying these things and thanks for sharing.
Regardless of conditions, the sling is probably our "go to" solution and we will try the other ones if it fails. It actually is very quick to deploy but any solution will take time. Hopefully, we never have to do it for real.
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass 🤣🤣🤣 sharing the love of the brilliant design process. In fairness I had to look it up for the episode number 😁 but have saved it to my jobs/ how to playlist
The intrepid Gaynor playing the water version of a crash test dummy. I fell in end of October 2007 off the pontoon while mooring. Wouldn’t wish that cold on anyone
Fair play, I’ve never seen a sling like yours before and what a great idea, how many of us just sitting on anchor or a mooring enjoying the sunshine and some grub, and not all of us wear life lines on anchor, maybe a buoyancy jacket, and we get up and stumble and over we go but hit our head on the way down, absolutely helpless in the water, some chance of getting that person out of the water with the sling👏 Hopefully we’ll have better weather this summer in Sunny West Cork ☀️☀️⛵️
There is a commercial product called "Lifesling" but I have no idea if it is similar to what we made. We got the idea from an ex-Commodore at our yacht club (I probably should not have called ours "lifesling", trademark lawyers will be chasing me for money 😄). Like you say, at anchor we tend not to wear any LJs or PFDs whereas we do at all other times. Good luck with the summer weather, I hope it is better than 2023's weather and hold on tight for the next few days, it looks to be very rough...
Thank you both for the video. While these topics may not be as popular as videos, they are necessary because sailing, like it or not, is a high-risk activity and the more prepared you are, the safer you are. My boat has a four-foot freeboard and there is no way someone is climbing up the side, no matter how strong he/she may be. It is essential to have a recovery system on board that works and one that you know how to use. I have to admit it did look cold!
Thanks for watching and commenting and you highlight another issue that we only touched upon - the cold. We could not have filmed that today in the current temperatures because cold shock would paralyse anyone who went in. In the winter, survival times in these waters are around 5 to 10 minutes. In some of our videos you will see us wearing one-piece red and black thermal gear - these give a 2 hour survival time in these waters.
This is actually one of the best videos you have ever made. Initially I was like why not use the swim ladder you have a sugar scoop! But then I saw where this was going. I got to say I love your life jacket what are they like to swim in ?
Those are not really lifejackets, they are dinghy vests. They are basically some sort of floatable plastic in nylon or polyester fabric. Think of the old sailors with cork vests and the cork replaced with plastic. As for swimming they are fine. If you Google "helly hansen rider vest bouyancy aid" you should find them.
They are ideal for those sort of activities. Buy them from the UK at £30 each though and not a certain well known American chandler that probably charges triple that ...
Interesting, planning solo sea sailing. Did recoveries on kielder water, but it was into a drascombe. Rubber dinghy recovery was quite successful, but was taught to reverse flip, back to the dinghy feet come up over head into dinghy, thighs and arms to push you in. Worked very well, but I'm 70 now, wondering if i've got the strength & agility ? 😅😅😅
Great to see two ladies taking on the difficult topics. As we get older and loose strength or live life with advancing mobility issues it’s a sobering thought what would happen if you suddenly needed gorilla strength.
Great video, very informative, well narrated and implemented, thanks for this exercise in safety. Much Respect xx SV Cordelia did one having the person flip into the dingy backwards check it out.🤣
I think the most important thing is to have a plan and to try it out. The actual method is less important and will probably vary from boat to boat in any case.
Great video about an essential subject. We bought Duncan Wells MOB Lifesavers for all our lifejackets - they are approx £18 and give you a floating dyneema strop attached to the lifejacket harness and this makes it much easier to get the ‘casualty’ connected to the boat, which is a big issue in non flat seas. The sling you developed looks great (maybe you should sell them?) & looks a great alternative to a handy billy on a halyard. We sail as a couple & one of us is way heavier than the other - guess which one of us is likely to fall in!? Thanks for sharing ⛵️
The sling was an idea from a friend of ours and I think that there is a product on on the market but we wanted one that matched the characteristics of our boat. We hope to give more details about in next week's episode or maybe the one after (videos are now in real time). I like the idea of the dyneema strop, but does it not catch on stuff?
Because of your comments on this video, we give it passing mention in our next video. It just came too late to do anything substantive other than a link in the description and a quick mention.
The other great advantage of your sling is the horizontal position of the " casualty " during the lift, which maintains a more stable blood pressure. Lifting vertically could crash a compromised persons blood pressure ............. Excellent vid 👍👍👍👍👍
A very good video, people don't want to talk about going overboard and I get why. The fact is that going overboard is a real danger and you should think about what you are going to do. I also tried the rope method and I barely made it on board but I was exhausted after that, now image the boat moving at say 5 knots, then you probably drown using that methode. I think you are on to something with the life-sling, although I wonder how it would work in less than idle situations. Stay warm and have a great week.
Thanks for the feedback. It is nice to know it was not just us that failed on the "rope method". We agree about the difficulty of using any solution in a seaway but what can we do? What can anyone do? We have to try....
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass I guess all we can do is stick to my rule #1, don't go swimming when the boat is moving. I know it's not the best solution but it's one.
I often wonder about lone sailors. I watched a clip of Kirsten Neuschäfer swimming off the back of the boat in the Golden Globe race and wondered how on earth she could even contemplate such a thing! Excellent video because as you pointed out upper body strength is the key. Time to go to the gym I think! I have said this before, worse things can happen at sea!
Solo sailors will have a really hard time. We have no doubt about that. Their best option might be to buy a smaller boat with a lower freeboard. Most of Salt Lass's decks are over a metre high which is longer than most people's arms.
You should have an inflatable life jacket that has a sewn in harness so that you could clip a snap shocking onto it with a separate set of blocks shackles on both ends clip one to your boom, or whatever you got so that you have the ability to pull somebody up a five or 6 to 1 set of blocks and just hoist them up, perhaps get onto a mast winchor what have you but you can on snap at the end of your boom blocks and swing the boom out pull them up on the end of the boom and swinging back in
We do have inflatable lifejackets but we opted for dinghy PFDs in this video because they were more convenient for moving around and swimming. Also, as we said in the video, we already discounted lifting a casualty out using a block so lifting rings were not an issue.
An experienced Yachtmaster told me it's virtually impossible to retrieve somebody from the water without a sling. You have wind and waves to contend with offshore. Also, falling overboard tied on to a jackline is very dangerous as well. Jacklines should run down the centre of the boat and should keep you on deck when you are tied on. Stay safe.
SY Cordelia had a very interesting way to get into dinghy a few episodes back ( plus hilarious comment that nearly had me laughing so hard I couldn't breathe). BTW seriously jealous of the swing leg carelessly over the washboard without injury...joys of being tall.
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass I know we started doing box jumps to learn how to levitate off the ground for jump kicks but seriously the top step to top of the washboard is boob height. I tried it once with the top board out & nearly did myself an injury with my short legs
We have an "upper step" which is part of the bulkhead that the washboards sit on so we only have to clear the washboards. Different boats, different designs I suppose...
like my horse he had a great sense of humor...........put the bit between his teeth and took off fast , then stop quick and turn. i stayed on..............i told him i was afraid to fall. so he could not get me off. FEAR might get you back on boat. ha ha .
Great video and well done on testing. What about those rescue slings that you can buy? Looks like they just go under arms and round waist? We don't have anything like that at the moment yet, just throw line, Danbuoy and lifebelt...
We are aware of the ones you can buy but we decided to make a custom one for our boat. If the commercial ones go under the arms then I hope they are a lot more comfortable than the main halyard because that was really sore....
Makes you think. What is the point of a life jacket? And even a tether. Once you're over the side, even tethered, the chances of getting back aboard are slim. I did hear a storey, a true one, of a solo sailor who was tethered and went over the side. He couldn't get back aboard so he cut his tether and worked his way down the boat to the stern where he felt he would have a better chance. Everything was going fine until his lifejacket auto inflated and blew him off the boat. Fortunately he had a personal EPIRB and was rescued. This all happened about 100 miles off the north east coast of Australia.
I guess the lifejacket stops you drowning. That's it. Getting back onboard is a totally different issue and is a lot harder than we ever thought. As for solo sailors like yourself, a personal EPIRB may be the best answer. If you go over, the LJ keeps you alive long enough for the EPIRB to summon help.
My daughter, when she was 30 yrs., climbed from the water via the water stay, onto the bow sprit and over the pullpit. She is very fit. But I have told wife and 'children', if you fall overboard when under sail, you are dead. If resqued, that will be pure luck. Like winning 10 mill GPB on the lottery.
We are trying to improve the odds as much as we can. You daughter must have been very fit indeed and well done her for managing to get back aboard the way she did.
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass She's now 42, and won't stand a chance :-) One thing's for certain, age plays a significant role. I am seventyseven-and-a-half. I'll be dead on my way down :-)
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass Yes, absolutely. All our life jackets ( floating devices) have steel rings strong enough to hoist a person out of the water. Most importantly, these rings shall prevent anyone from falling over the rail. We have lines to hook onto close as possible to the boats centerline. And our stantions are 900 mm. Not 600 as seems to be the normal hight. And safety, and thoughts around it, increases with age :-) It becomes som kind of paranoia.
@@svhulda6157 - our sea-going lifejackets also have loops for tethers. The ones in this video are dinghy-sailing vests because inflatables would have been a nuisance in this situation.
Great test! I always thought I could be lifted out with a tackle attacjed to the boom. My life jecket has big fat eyes for attaching a line. How did you try to do it? I saw that your life jackets don't have a good fastening point. Did you just loop the halyard around the person?
Those "life jackets" are actually PFDs for dinghy sailing. They do not inflate and since most dinghies are barely out of the water there is no need for a lifting strop. Our proper inflatable lifejackets do have a lifting ring. We did try using a halyard around the person some months back and it was a very painful experience. We do not recommend it. You might want to watch this segment of our earlier video ua-cam.com/video/8h1kBr_43yA/v-deo.htmlsi=znawMdPdRs3Vd_F5&t=788
I have a line in my dinghy with a loop in it I thought, but have not tried and will now. That I can use to put my foot in for a step up. Any feedback on something like that? 🇨🇦
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass you push the person ( or can do it yourself) down under the water that causes water to counter push & you pop out a bit higher. Practice getting out side of swimming pool
It might well do, but for an injured casualty how do you then get them out of the dinghy and on to the yacht? The big advantage of the sling is that they are aboard.
Yes we do, although be aware that we added some stiffening rods as a result of the experiences in this video. These have not yet been tested. Also the sling was designed to be a perfect fit for our boat and the gaps between our stanchions. Having said all that, see our blog at www.saltylass.co.uk/sling-design
On a bigger boat perhaps. Our yacht's windlass would be unlikely to lift a persons weight (say more than 70kg) as well as the anchor and chain's weight. The trip would go. Our anchor is over-sized at 16kg and the chain weighs 15kg per ten metres so things would be well out of spec... 😮 Also, having anyone around the anchor in bad seas (when you are more likely to go over) is a bad idea. It is very easy to get injured by the anchor or by chain and that part of the boat is likely to be moving around a lot.
Possibly for an uninjured / conscious casualty but it might be tricky getting into it in anything other than fairly calm conditions and if it is calm we would use the stern ladder.
Well done, that was a really good practice, with all round benefit for you two & the rest of us. I hope ALLboaters watch this
Thank you. We learned a lot and hope it is of use to others
Fair play to you. Thought provoking and informative. Thank you.
Thanks!
Good to see you both conducting MOB exercises. Everyone needs a recovery plan that works.
Thank you. Gaynor had great fun swimming around and trying them all out. Hopefully, we will never need it, but it is best to be prepared.
John just got to watch your video. Seriously well impressed by your brilliant sling design and how effective it was. Very important to highlight the dangerous side of life afloat
We are doing a follow-up on this because it will make it clearer how we have enhanced the sling further. Also a few questions kept coming up again and again so.....
This has made me think about our recovery capabilities, so thanks very much ladies.
Happy to help! Thanks for commenting
Now that is really worth watching slowly a second time. Ladies congrats for a highlighting a really important subject.
Thank you
Great video, thank you.
Glad you liked it!
That's all very interesting. Whatever method people use, as you found out, it's important to practice until you find a method which works.
I found that having a boarding loop, a rope with a piece of water hose over a section, when put over the edge of the tender made climbing in that much easier. Of course, you won't always have the tender handy when someone falls in.
Thanks for the tip. It is always worth putting it together to have it handy. Who knows what will be needed if the s*#t ever hits the fan?
Hello! I just discovered your nice channel, and yes I think you cover interesting topics all the time. I am retiring in six months, have a small 30 foot sailboat that I am upgrading for a semi live aboard life.I appreciate your videos, tips and tricks and follow you with pleasure. Greetings, Tony
Welcome aboard and thanks for commenting. I hope your upgrade goes smoothly and you get some great sailing
I literally have nightmares about one of us going overboard. We just have the two of us on our 41' Beneteau and my husband is twice the size of me, i really don't think i could get him back on board. We always wear our lifejackets and they are good ones with a hood. It constantly amazes me how many fellow sailors do not wear lifejackets. Great video ladies, reminds us all to think about our safety and MOB procedures.
Glad you enjoyed it. Like you, we felt a need to know that we could actually manage to get one of us back aboard if the other went over. At least we now have a solution that gives us a chance of it working.
12 out of 10 for dedication
Thank you!
Thought provoking video, well done. As an ex full-time regular Coastguard officer (many years ago, 1980's) this is a subject I have thought about alot and so far I can only think that the best one can do is to have a number of available options easily accessible and available to deploy for the crew member on board (no good if one is a solo sailor) at a moments notice For example and in addition to the usual MOB safety equipment and immediate mayday call; 1) a handy-billy to provide purchasing power for the person on board to use, 2) rescue sling, 3) a suitable jacobs ladder to deploy, 4) a short paddle board or belly board with line attached kept on deck,......but none of these solve the problem of an unconscious or injured casuality or casuality who just cannot get back onboard. I can only think to keep the casuality atttached and close to the hull until the rescue helicopter and/or lifeboat arrives. I know it makes sense to wear a lifejacket at all times whilst on deck but the downside is if you are in the water with an inflated lifejacket it is almost impossible to get back on board. unless you are a very fit, conscious and a strong person. I don't want to be morbid but I understand the data indicates that only about 30% of MOB incidents/casualities are rescued. A sobering thought. Prevention is of course the answer but even the most experienced, knowledgeable and qualified sailors have fallen foul. I am going to watch your video again with the safety sling, a good idea, thank you.
Thank you for such a detailed and thought provoking reply. We decided to go for the most daunting situation of all - the unconscious casualty on the grounds that if we can rescue that person then all the other ones would be easier. On our boat, inflatable lifejackets are mandatory (our choice, not the law here) and we check and service those lifejackets each year. We also wear clothing appropriate to the conditions, have safety lines aboard, MOB buttons on equipment, etc.
We understand that the odds are against us but we are determined to shorten the odds to be more in our favour. BTW, the video following this one shows the alterations we made as a result of this exercise.
Thanks again 👍
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass Totally agree with you and yes lifejackets being mandatory. I came across on ebay the following you might be interested in looking at; "NEW Man Over Board Recovery Sling MOB Parbuckle RIB Boat Safety Rescue Recovery".......mind you it is about £500.
I will look at the ebay thing just to see. I suffer from hyper-noseyness 😄
Thanks for this sobering vlog ladies, I’ve often thought about a life sling, you’ve convinced me!
Thank you and I think we have convinced ourselves 😄
The best solution is to be always clipped on and never go overboard. Like they saying goes there are old sailors and there are bold sailors but there are no old bold sailors. interesting experiment all the same, well done for testing it out👍
Thank you. We do agree that NOT falling off is the best way. We do have hardpoints, tethers and jack-lines
Hope you warmed up with no trouble. Great video!! I’m be sharing this. We talk about it a lot in our group. Especially us solo sailors.🇨🇦
Thanks for sharing it. Gaynor warmed up with a hot shower and lots of tea!! 😄
Spot on Boaty Folks. Made me think. Well worth saying and a real myth buster. I wish inland waterway boaters would watch this vblog, most don't even wear life jackets.
Most canals are so shallow you can stand up in them, so maybe it is less of an issue. Rivers and such are different and folks should really be wearing lifejackets in our opinion. Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for commenting
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass Actually there is the thermal shock to think of and you may have gone into the water unconscious. When I went over the handle bars of my bike, I slid along the wet grass and into the cut without so much of a ripple. I then found the walls of the canal to be so nicely made there was no way I could get out. The G&S canal is 16 miles London, 16 metres wide, 16 feet deep and has 16 bridges. I am a good swimmer but I was stuffed. Had to wait for my friend to come and get me. It's not only locks where folk die on the cut.
@@paulroberts5677 - that is why we have thermal gear aboard. It increases survival time from 10 minutes in winter waters up to two hours. We usually wear it for winter passages both to stay warm and in case one of us goes in. I am glad you survived your canal "swim". Water is a dangerous substance.
Great video love John
Thank you.
Very athletic Beverley hopping over the cabin door. Interesting the rope step was a fail. I was always relaxed on using that as my go to. I like the net my only issue is the setup as you say which could be difficult but that was very effective. Well done Gaynor for being a Guinea Pig. As usual very informative.
I'm an athletic kind of gal! 😄😄😄 We were surprised as well about the fore and aft rope method. We really hoped it would work as it seemed so simple.
Great subject, often talked about, but never practiced. Id like to make a suggestion. If you attach a pulley to the bottom of the mast facing forward, run the halyard through it to the windless rope drum. I’m not sure what windless you have, mines has rope drum opposite side of the gypsy. It would be a lot easier on the person on the winch handle, possibly quicker as well.
We have never thought about the windlass because anything associated with anchor use is usually considered risky (because of the forces involved). Your idea of using the pulley is one that we have not heard before. Given the responses the video has generated, we are considering doing a follow-up video. Thanks for the suggestion and commenting.
Great Video. Thank you for making the time and effort to highlight this issue. Nobody plans to go overboard and bodily reactions of a conscious person are severely hampered by sea state, cold water and tiredness if several attempts to recover are required. I hope viewers will be prompted to consider their actions and to practice various scenarios in a safe and controlled manner before having to do this for real in much less favourable conditions.
We will also be doing a follow-up on this to answer some of the questions raised in the comments. We're glad you liked the video and hopefully it will help reduce your "workload" 😉 We feel that we got a lot out of practising this for the video so we agree that it is worth doing 👍
I'm seriously impressed by your commitment in the interest of safety. Here's a wee story which might help to emphasise the importance of this subject.
I travelled across the Atlantic many moons ago aboard one of Her Majesty's Commando carriers. I had a conversation with the ship's diver who had been tasked as Lifebuoy sentry during a replenishment at sea. In this process various stores, including Mail, are transferred from one ship to another via breeches buoy - long bits of thick string from one vessel to the other! The mail pallet wasn't secure and a bag went in the oggin. He was instructed to go overboard and stay with the bag until it, and he, were collected by a helicopter. He said afterwards it was his first time in mid-ocean and alone. He swam to the bag and made himself secure. He then said he looked around but from his level a few inches above sea-level he could only see about 4/500 yards and only when at the top of a wave. As he said by the time he got to the bag he had no idea what direction the ship had gone although he could hear the noise of the engines gradually get fainter. Wearing a dry-suit and lots of layers he said he was physically reasonably comfortable but started to think...
Did I hear the order correctly?
Should I have gone over?
Did my mate watch me or was he daydreaming?
Do they know I'm here?
After 10 minutes he said he had decided he was changing his specialisation and was going for something less challenging - if he survived.
After 15 minutes he heard the noise of the helicopter and 5 minutes later he and the bag were on their way back to the ship. He said he kissed the crewman who dragged him into the door of the Wessex...!
According to Wikipedia...
"From 2000-2018, 284 people have gone overboard or fallen off cruise ships and a further 41 have fallen off large ferries. In any given month, approximately two people go overboard." The scary bit,
"Between 17 percent and 25 percent of people who go overboard are rescued."
So on average in a year 24 folk will take an unintentional bath.
Between 4 and 6 will survive. 18 to 20 will not...
What a cheerful thought...
Not.
Rule 1. of sailing. DO NOT FALL OVERBOARD.
There are no more rules...
Well done ladies.
He was a braver person than me. I would have dumped a smoke marker over the side first and waited for the helicopter to take me to it 😄 Thanks for the compliment and for sharing your story.
A sling with top and bottom piece of wood, 2"x3" to keep the sling in a rectangular shape would probably be easier to enter, plus it could be rolled up for storage without tangling.
You might well be right and it would certainly be simpler, but it is all done and dusted now. Nonetheless, if it ever needs replacing your idea may still have its day. Thanks for the tip 👍
Now that is as a very interesting video. Am going to have to rethink my recovery procedures. I think I will look at your sling method which as you say works very well. I may well look at adopting some canvas for the purpose.
Make sure you leave holes in the canvas for the water to drain away 😄 We will be adding a section to this week's video about the changes we have made as a result of this test. Also we have a "blueprint" on our website at www.saltylass.co.uk/sling-design
There would be a greater lift height with the fixed point closer to the winch. The mob or wob would need another rope, a sheet end say, to hold until high enought to hold the toerail. Weight of wet clothes are significant. Someone I know fell off a fishing boat in winter and he was wearing lots of layers, it took three strong crew to haul him out (he gave up fishing after that). The lifesling seems efficient but I'd guess the casualty would be dunked a few times like one of those teabags on a string in any sea with the boat rolling.
To be honest, teabag dunkings would be neither here nor there. After all, the casualty is already soaking wet 😄
I clearly broke the YT stats by watching this, I’m now going to order some webbing. Thanks for braving the cold water to demonstrate.
Brilliant! If you want a guide to start you off on the project I have included a link to our website and the "blueprint" we used. Also, we did have to add something like a batten to ensure the centre of the webbing is easier for the casualty to float into.
www.saltylass.co.uk/sling-design
Very good! Not everyone will try that.
One method I was told from a dinghy is to, holding the head of the casualty out of water the best as possible, pull one leg first in the dinghy, then the other, pull it a bit inwhile holding the arms so the torso is floating out the water. Then using your own body weight pull the two arms up, while you are failing back, and you got the casualty in. It is very difficult to explain especially with my broken English but I tried in a big rib and I managed
There is nothing wrong with your English Xavi - it is way, way better than my French or Spanish 😄 The main problem we faced was just the sheer weight of the person because of the water, so your method might work. In this case Gaynor weighs more than me and a soaking Gaynor weighs a LOT more than me, so I do wonder if my own weight would able to counter her wet weight. Nonetheless, we might try it in the summer, but not this week 😄😄😄
@SailingYachtSaltyLass yes I know. But with the legs already inside the dinghy, you only need to pull up her upper body, and she will end up sitting in the rib.
But yes, it's not easy. And do not try it now! 🥶
Definitely one for a summer day 👍
We did a couple of similar trials with my wife winching me back aboard. I came out looking like a smurf after sliding up the blue antifouling. I found it pretty painful being winched back aboard with a lifejacket digging into my ribs too.
Thank heavens for our coppercoat, at least it spares us from smurfdom!!! We tried the winch method just lying on the side decks and it hurt enough that we discounted that. We were dry. A wet person would weigh even more and the pain must be intense.
Fascinating. I think in reality (broken ribs or not) lifting with the body harness on a halyard is more an option with any sort of chop. Even hove too in the lee spot you have to get hold of casualty (boat hook) to gain control. Tie off the casualty, then get the sling and then try and deploy it, it all takes time. The halyard is there and will work. ? Well done for trying these things and thanks for sharing.
Regardless of conditions, the sling is probably our "go to" solution and we will try the other ones if it fails. It actually is very quick to deploy but any solution will take time. Hopefully, we never have to do it for real.
Thanks gals good info
Thanks - glad it was helpful!
Episode 229 gives the sling design plan
If you ever go on "Mastermind" I imagine your Special Subject would be "The videos of Salty Lass" 😁😁
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass 🤣🤣🤣 sharing the love of the brilliant design process. In fairness I had to look it up for the episode number 😁 but have saved it to my jobs/ how to playlist
The intrepid Gaynor playing the water version of a crash test dummy.
I fell in end of October 2007 off the pontoon while mooring. Wouldn’t wish that cold on anyone
😄 I know what you mean about cold water. You may recall my double wetsuit in Glandore. I floated like a cork and I was still cold!!!!
Fair play, I’ve never seen a sling like yours before and what a great idea, how many of us just sitting on anchor or a mooring enjoying the sunshine and some grub, and not all of us wear life lines on anchor, maybe a buoyancy jacket, and we get up and stumble and over we go but hit our head on the way down, absolutely helpless in the water, some chance of getting that person out of the water with the sling👏 Hopefully we’ll have better weather this summer in Sunny West Cork ☀️☀️⛵️
There is a commercial product called "Lifesling" but I have no idea if it is similar to what we made. We got the idea from an ex-Commodore at our yacht club (I probably should not have called ours "lifesling", trademark lawyers will be chasing me for money 😄). Like you say, at anchor we tend not to wear any LJs or PFDs whereas we do at all other times.
Good luck with the summer weather, I hope it is better than 2023's weather and hold on tight for the next few days, it looks to be very rough...
Thank you both for the video. While these topics may not be as popular as videos, they are necessary because sailing, like it or not, is a high-risk activity and the more prepared you are, the safer you are. My boat has a four-foot freeboard and there is no way someone is climbing up the side, no matter how strong he/she may be. It is essential to have a recovery system on board that works and one that you know how to use. I have to admit it did look cold!
Thanks for watching and commenting and you highlight another issue that we only touched upon - the cold. We could not have filmed that today in the current temperatures because cold shock would paralyse anyone who went in. In the winter, survival times in these waters are around 5 to 10 minutes. In some of our videos you will see us wearing one-piece red and black thermal gear - these give a 2 hour survival time in these waters.
i always planed how not to fall off. and made sure the safety line was in the middle of boat and would not allow me to go over . ..
Good plan! We have very short tethers for going forward
This is actually one of the best videos you have ever made. Initially I was like why not use the swim ladder you have a sugar scoop! But then I saw where this was going. I got to say I love your life jacket what are they like to swim in ?
Those are not really lifejackets, they are dinghy vests. They are basically some sort of floatable plastic in nylon or polyester fabric. Think of the old sailors with cork vests and the cork replaced with plastic. As for swimming they are fine. If you Google "helly hansen rider vest bouyancy aid" you should find them.
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass but they would be good for paddle boarding , dingy rides and floating in the water whilst swimming
They are ideal for those sort of activities. Buy them from the UK at £30 each though and not a certain well known American chandler that probably charges triple that ...
Hope you guys are ok after the last few days. Even my boat on the hard at ground level was being blown back and forth.
We were rockin' and rollin' all night long 😮 and we cover some of it in this week's video. I hope your boat is ok.
Interesting, planning solo sea sailing. Did recoveries on kielder water, but it was into a drascombe. Rubber dinghy recovery was quite successful, but was taught to reverse flip, back to the dinghy feet come up over head into dinghy, thighs and arms to push you in. Worked very well, but I'm 70 now, wondering if i've got the strength & agility ? 😅😅😅
Several people commented on better techniques for dinghy recovery which we may try if the weather ever improves 😄😄
Great to see two ladies taking on the difficult topics. As we get older and loose strength or live life with advancing mobility issues it’s a sobering thought what would happen if you suddenly needed gorilla strength.
Thank you. As you say, perhaps if we were in our 20s it would have been different, but we are were we are. Thanks for watching and for commenting.
Great video, very informative, well narrated and implemented, thanks for this exercise in safety. Much Respect xx SV Cordelia did one having the person flip into the dingy backwards check it out.🤣
Glad you enjoyed it and I will watch the Cordelia video
I plan to try SV Cordelia's method! and will be making one of these slings!
I think the most important thing is to have a plan and to try it out. The actual method is less important and will probably vary from boat to boat in any case.
Great video about an essential subject. We bought Duncan Wells MOB Lifesavers for all our lifejackets - they are approx £18 and give you a floating dyneema strop attached to the lifejacket harness and this makes it much easier to get the ‘casualty’ connected to the boat, which is a big issue in non flat seas. The sling you developed looks great (maybe you should sell them?) & looks a great alternative to a handy billy on a halyard. We sail as a couple & one of us is way heavier than the other - guess which one of us is likely to fall in!? Thanks for sharing ⛵️
The sling was an idea from a friend of ours and I think that there is a product on on the market but we wanted one that matched the characteristics of our boat. We hope to give more details about in next week's episode or maybe the one after (videos are now in real time). I like the idea of the dyneema strop, but does it not catch on stuff?
@@SailingYachtSaltyLassIt’s a floating dyneema line with a strop on the end that you can catch with a boathook. Have a look at Duncan Wells video’s.
Because of your comments on this video, we give it passing mention in our next video. It just came too late to do anything substantive other than a link in the description and a quick mention.
The other great advantage of your sling is the horizontal position of the " casualty " during the lift, which maintains a more stable blood pressure. Lifting vertically could crash a compromised persons blood pressure .............
Excellent vid 👍👍👍👍👍
We heard that too which was why we never bothered showing the "lift" in the video
What a great demo ,,food for thought as Im planning a passage to Scotland this summer ,in fact quite sobering !! Thanks for sharing !!
Glad it was helpful and thanks for watching and commenting.
Great video ladies, really informative and food for thought 👍
Thanks so much and glad you enjoyed it!
A very good video, people don't want to talk about going overboard and I get why.
The fact is that going overboard is a real danger and you should think about what you are going to do.
I also tried the rope method and I barely made it on board but I was exhausted after that, now image the boat moving at say 5 knots, then you probably drown using that methode. I think you are on to something with the life-sling, although I wonder how it would work in less than idle situations.
Stay warm and have a great week.
Thanks for the feedback. It is nice to know it was not just us that failed on the "rope method". We agree about the difficulty of using any solution in a seaway but what can we do? What can anyone do? We have to try....
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass I guess all we can do is stick to my rule #1, don't go swimming when the boat is moving. I know it's not the best solution but it's one.
We are in total agreement with you on this 👍
I often wonder about lone sailors. I watched a clip of Kirsten Neuschäfer swimming off the back of the boat in the Golden Globe race and wondered how on earth she could even contemplate such a thing! Excellent video because as you pointed out upper body strength is the key. Time to go to the gym I think! I have said this before, worse things can happen at sea!
Solo sailors will have a really hard time. We have no doubt about that. Their best option might be to buy a smaller boat with a lower freeboard. Most of Salt Lass's decks are over a metre high which is longer than most people's arms.
Guessing spending the winter season in the gym / weight training might pay off. New reason for exercise apart from my kickboxing
Exactly. We expect great things from you now that you have shamed us sloth-like creatures with your derring-do!! 😄
You should have an inflatable life jacket that has a sewn in harness so that you could clip a snap shocking onto it with a separate set of blocks shackles on both ends clip one to your boom, or whatever you got so that you have the ability to pull somebody up a five or 6 to 1 set of blocks and just hoist them up, perhaps get onto a mast winchor what have you but you can on snap at the end of your boom blocks and swing the boom out pull them up on the end of the boom and swinging back in
We do have inflatable lifejackets but we opted for dinghy PFDs in this video because they were more convenient for moving around and swimming. Also, as we said in the video, we already discounted lifting a casualty out using a block so lifting rings were not an issue.
An experienced Yachtmaster told me it's virtually impossible to retrieve somebody from the water without a sling. You have wind and waves to contend with offshore. Also, falling overboard tied on to a jackline is very dangerous as well. Jacklines should run down the centre of the boat and should keep you on deck when you are tied on. Stay safe.
Based on our experience, we would agree. The sling or something like it is really the only option.
SY Cordelia had a very interesting way to get into dinghy a few episodes back ( plus hilarious comment that nearly had me laughing so hard I couldn't breathe).
BTW seriously jealous of the swing leg carelessly over the washboard without injury...joys of being tall.
Thanks for the tip. I will look that up. As for the washboard, it is just practice. Now that you are a kung-fu master it should be trivial 😉
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass I know we started doing box jumps to learn how to levitate off the ground for jump kicks but seriously the top step to top of the washboard is boob height. I tried it once with the top board out & nearly did myself an injury with my short legs
We have an "upper step" which is part of the bulkhead that the washboards sit on so we only have to clear the washboards. Different boats, different designs I suppose...
like my horse he had a great sense of humor...........put the bit between his teeth and took off fast , then stop quick and turn.
i stayed on..............i told him i was afraid to fall. so he could not get me off. FEAR might get you back on boat. ha ha .
It may well be that fear and adrenaline would help. I can see how that would work, but I do not want to test it....
Great video and well done on testing. What about those rescue slings that you can buy? Looks like they just go under arms and round waist? We don't have anything like that at the moment yet, just throw line, Danbuoy and lifebelt...
We are aware of the ones you can buy but we decided to make a custom one for our boat. If the commercial ones go under the arms then I hope they are a lot more comfortable than the main halyard because that was really sore....
Makes you think. What is the point of a life jacket? And even a tether. Once you're over the side, even tethered, the chances of getting back aboard are slim. I did hear a storey, a true one, of a solo sailor who was tethered and went over the side. He couldn't get back aboard so he cut his tether and worked his way down the boat to the stern where he felt he would have a better chance. Everything was going fine until his lifejacket auto inflated and blew him off the boat. Fortunately he had a personal EPIRB and was rescued. This all happened about 100 miles off the north east coast of Australia.
I guess the lifejacket stops you drowning. That's it. Getting back onboard is a totally different issue and is a lot harder than we ever thought. As for solo sailors like yourself, a personal EPIRB may be the best answer. If you go over, the LJ keeps you alive long enough for the EPIRB to summon help.
My daughter, when she was 30 yrs., climbed from the water via the water stay, onto the bow sprit and over the pullpit. She is very fit. But I have told wife and 'children', if you fall overboard when under sail, you are dead. If resqued, that will be pure luck. Like winning 10 mill GPB on the lottery.
We are trying to improve the odds as much as we can. You daughter must have been very fit indeed and well done her for managing to get back aboard the way she did.
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass She's now 42, and won't stand a chance :-) One thing's for certain, age plays a significant role. I am seventyseven-and-a-half. I'll be dead on my way down :-)
Best aim to stay on the boat then! That's what our plan is 😄
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass Yes, absolutely. All our life jackets ( floating devices) have steel rings strong enough to hoist a person out of the water. Most importantly, these rings shall prevent anyone from falling over the rail. We have lines to hook onto close as possible to the boats centerline. And our stantions are 900 mm. Not 600 as seems to be the normal hight. And safety, and thoughts around it, increases with age :-) It becomes som kind of paranoia.
@@svhulda6157 - our sea-going lifejackets also have loops for tethers. The ones in this video are dinghy-sailing vests because inflatables would have been a nuisance in this situation.
Fantastic video topic. My biggest fear is John falling off
We understand. We feel the same way and it is why we did this. We needed to know.
Quite scary to watch how hard it actually is to get back on the boat loved the video though
It surprised us too. We thought it was going to be a lot easier to get aboard. Glad you enjoyed it.
Great test! I always thought I could be lifted out with a tackle attacjed to the boom. My life jecket has big fat eyes for attaching a line. How did you try to do it? I saw that your life jackets don't have a good fastening point. Did you just loop the halyard around the person?
Those "life jackets" are actually PFDs for dinghy sailing. They do not inflate and since most dinghies are barely out of the water there is no need for a lifting strop. Our proper inflatable lifejackets do have a lifting ring.
We did try using a halyard around the person some months back and it was a very painful experience. We do not recommend it. You might want to watch this segment of our earlier video
ua-cam.com/video/8h1kBr_43yA/v-deo.htmlsi=znawMdPdRs3Vd_F5&t=788
I have a line in my dinghy with a loop in it I thought, but have not tried and will now. That I can use to put my foot in for a step up. Any feedback on something like that? 🇨🇦
Possibly. We did try climbing up the sling which has a "ladder" in the middle, but it was much harder than we thought.
Did you try the push down to pop up method of buoyancy and get out for the dinghy
No, because we have no idea what that is
@@SailingYachtSaltyLass you push the person ( or can do it yourself) down under the water that causes water to counter push & you pop out a bit higher. Practice getting out side of swimming pool
Gotcha! We decided to go for "Maximum Doom" with a tired or injured casualty which is why Gaynor did not help much when I was tugging her out
Do you think letting some air outdone side of the dinghy so one sponson is part deflated could help?
It might well do, but for an injured casualty how do you then get them out of the dinghy and on to the yacht? The big advantage of the sling is that they are aboard.
next training try morning coffee , fall in before, .
Coffee yes! Fall in no! 😄
Did you have a pattern for the life sling?
Yes we do, although be aware that we added some stiffening rods as a result of the experiences in this video. These have not yet been tested. Also the sling was designed to be a perfect fit for our boat and the gaps between our stanchions. Having said all that, see our blog at www.saltylass.co.uk/sling-design
Sorry one you never tried. It. Works your anchor lower it sit on it or stand on it and winch up elc or hand.
On a bigger boat perhaps. Our yacht's windlass would be unlikely to lift a persons weight (say more than 70kg) as well as the anchor and chain's weight. The trip would go. Our anchor is over-sized at 16kg and the chain weighs 15kg per ten metres so things would be well out of spec... 😮
Also, having anyone around the anchor in bad seas (when you are more likely to go over) is a bad idea. It is very easy to get injured by the anchor or by chain and that part of the boat is likely to be moving around a lot.
Bosuns chair main halyard 😅
Possibly for an uninjured / conscious casualty but it might be tricky getting into it in anything other than fairly calm conditions and if it is calm we would use the stern ladder.