I guess the prophecy has yet to be fulfilled, will it be the lithium (probably not,🧨🎆) maybe solid-state battery then? The chosen ones must return soon.
@@ozzybloke4830 yeah I actually have this happen 10 times more with Energizer, but I assume they're about the same. Years ago I used to use Duracell I only had a few small leaks over 30 years, battery discoloured but device not damaged. These days I only really have access to energizer but in the past 10 years it feels worse than before. Not just battery damage but leaking through the entire device. However that could just be all the kids toys and just the increase in battery use. I haven't seen any statistics on the degree of damage cause and the frequency with different brands. However my local store only sells everready or energizer so energizer is really my only choice. Majority of the time it's fine for years. I wish I didn't have to stress over finding batteries to remove.
@@Commander_ZiN They are made in the same group of Chinese alkaline battery manufacturers, so all are cheaply made, but sold at a premium price. One of these though has a quality battery, which is used by all of the brand names for the professional and the industrial grade branding. I had some of those in Airmatic machines, those things were white sleeve, no manufacturer at all, and I never had one in hundreds ever leak, even 5 years after the expiry date. Just you cannot buy them.
Something about the chemical makeup of the electrolyte fluid seems to give it a low surface tension and high wetting properties, therefore it can apparently flow upwards along vertical surfaces! I have seen this happen with small capacitors that hang upside down from a circuit board: when they leak, the electrolyte seems to creep up the leads, passes right through the solder joints, and onto the upward-facing foil side of the board, where it eats at the lacquered foils. You wouldn't think this is possible but I've seen it happen a number of times.
Better yet, never use alkaline batteries in these meters. They are disposable batteries for disposable devices. Never use alkaline batteries in any device worth more than the batteries. Use only Eveready Ultimate Lithium or Eneloop rechargeable cells in these meters. And like you, I learned the hard way!
@@NCF8710 nice tip. I learned the hard way too... after 10 years with a good 'not fluke multimeter' and one season in a harsh and warm weather did the trick on alkaline batteries... solder mask, copper traces and the plastic just gone.. sad story
@@NCF8710sorry but eneloop also leak. They have leaked in one of the meters that I have. That is the best I can buy locally. Each and every battry can leak under correct circumstances. So now I use this way to protect the meters.
I'd definitely love to see a repair video on this thing. Exactly because it does appear to be a moderately challenging repair and indeed one that might not otherwise be economically viable. But for educational value? Can't beat it. Show us how it's done, Dave!
I think it's one of the vias. I recently repaired a Fluke 177 which was competely dead. Turned out there was a corroded via in the first few centimeters of the positive battery line that even didn't look that bad. Those blackened vias in the video look worse. I'd check these next....
Strong bases like sodium or potassium hydroxide are used for removing solder mask. Alkaline batteries usually use potassium hydroxide as an electrolyte.
whoah...a miniature car batteriy!! corrosive electrolyte....No way! Who protect our electronics??...an eye on my electroacoustic guitars all with preamps and batteries inside!!!
I run Lithium AA and AAA batteries in all my test gear. Lasts for a lot longer, and never leak. I'm talking about the non rechargeable variety, "Energizer ultimate lithium" etc. Mice, radio controllers remotes etc. Lasts a lot longer, and as I said, never leaks.
@@EEVblog , if you factor in the savings in repair, downtime and lost equipment they seem a much better deal, especially if you buy them in bulk from DigiKey.
Thanks Dave, I checked my fluke 17B and looks like my Energizer batteries, just started leaking! No damage. So glad that your video made me check now, cuz I've been pushing it and thinking they're fine, will check later!
@mikeselectricstuff - 4 layers. EEK!! how the heck can anything with more than two sides be repaired? .. is there a way to identify components in a board sandwich? how do they get separated?
@@EEVblog Sadly it is a 4 layer board. You can see the layer check (whats the correct term for that?) for the board fabrication at ua-cam.com/video/7dze5CnZnmk/v-deo.html on the edge of the PCB...
I've seen Louis Rossmann do multi-layer repair, but that's mostly just scrape and dig until the top layer isn't shorting to some internal layer, not reconnecting a via to an internal layer. If you can get a schematic, you're probably better off running a bodge wire from the via to some other via or trace where it pops back up rather than trying to repair a connection to an inner layer. The only saving grace is they are not (yet) putting components on the inner layers, so at some point all inner layer traces have to pop back to the surface.
I've had this exact same thing happen to my Fluke meter as well. The batteries leaked and corroded the contacts and also did some damage to the board inside. They should make thee battery compartment sealed because there's always going to be cells that leak.
The 3 battery compartment should be modular, easily removable and replaceable, and the recessed well that it sits into on the back of the meter should similarly be sealed, except for a tiny hole where the battery leads pass through into the meter, and that can be sealed with silicone. If you wanted to be truly certain to capture any leakage, you could wrap the separate battery- holder in Saran wrap (cellophane food wrap, "cling wrap" etc) which is what I do with 9 V batteries.
The crazy part is that people will still pay big money for non-working retro gear, which in many cases is no longer working because a leaky battery (usually a Varta NiCd) has leaked and trashed large sections of the main board. Certain models of Mac and Amiga are particularly bad for this.
Don't all these battery companies supposedly have 'warranties' to fix stuff their shitty batteries leak into? Time to test it out! Also, while I enjoy these videos, I'm still trying to figure out what a "pissy bee" is :)
I think they mostly apply to replacing the bad batteries and not the products they destroy. Honestly think alkaline battered need to be discontinued if they cant be made leak proof.
Ouch, that's a really bad leak, seen similar plastic and solder mask damage before but only even with two decade old batteries, never with a still in-date Energizer. Now I'm scared my Excel sheet of battery replacements by expiry date isn't enough! Would be very interested in you testing the Energizer leakage guarantee (not with your Twitter power but as a normal consumer), I hear they do actually honor it and will send you a payment for the value of the item. But I wonder if they would actually compensate you for this or pull the good old "Australia isn't a real country, so we can't offer support on your issue" which I often get from other companies.
The only time I've seen solder mask corrosion like that is when electrolytic caps leak, and the electrolyte is allowed to stay on the board for a long time. It eats through solder mask, and attacks the copper too. You end up with a real mess (or really good bargains on really expensive equipment depending on how you look at it)
Rayovac paid for a replacement ZTS battery tester from leaking cells. I believe I had to email a photo, and provide lot numbers from the cells. They took care of it, and it was a pretty easy process. I think Energizer has a similar leakage guarantee.
Many years ago I had Rayovac D cells destroy a nice chrome plated brass flashlight. They sent me a replacement which was cheap plastic. At that point it wasn’t worth pursuing complaining further.
@@brettfo I would hazard a guess that not too many people exercise their battery warranties. From other comments here, it seems that it is difficult to get Energizer to respond to claims. Rayovac did respond in my case, but it was quite a few years ago.
The electrolyte from leaky capacitors can also destroy things... as I learned at considerable expense some years ago, when my third-hand Tektronix digital oscilloscope of a certain vintage developed leaky capacitors (the scope having been made during the time when Tek was using off-brand caps), causing irreparable damage to a zillion-layer PC board. This turned out to be a known failure mode for certain models, with the only solution being to replace all the electrolytic caps before they failed. I haven't lost any equipment to leaky alkaline cells lately, but I've certainly noted used-up cells (including name brands) leaking copiously while awaiting disposal.
They always warn you to remove batteries, prior to longer storage. If only we had time machines to notify us ahead of time when long-term storage begins. Of course, manufacturers want the devices to disintegrate, so you have to buy a new one. But wouldn't it be great if the battery compartment could pop off, or at least semi-detach.
The battery department really should be modular and sealed, and only 2 wires should pass through from the battery compartment into the meter itself, with some silicone to seal it. When I install 9 V batteries I use the non rechargeable lithium infused Energizer batteries, and I wrap them in Saran wrap just in case, although I have never seen one leak; nor have I seen the double or triple A Eveready lithium batteries leak.
I would check all the corroded vias. I remember specifically seeing a via on an old HP power supply just not conduct through to the other side because of corrosion, and fixing that brought it to life. With this battery gunk seeping thorough inside the vias and onto the other side, chances are it ruined the connection inside those vias.
Some of the Fluke meters are now made in China. The quality is terrible. Be cautious. I also ordered some "Fluke" meter leads from a Chinese distributor. They arrived and looked authentic. I used them for a while and started to detect some small differences from my older truly authentic Fluke leads. They felt more noodly like overcooked spaghetti and I played my hunch and cut and stripped one to have a closer look. Sure enough, I discovered that the number of stranded conductors in the lead was less than half that of the truly authentic Fluke 10 amp leads. Not only a fraudulent sale but a dangerous sale. There is no way these leads would have carried ten amps safely. I have learned over and over that the Chineese have no ethics when it comes to trade . (Or ethics in anything really) They are out to cheat you in every way possible and they have no compunction about theft of design or theft of cash. Steer clear of anything Chiinese. The only reason an Apple phone is of decent quality is because the Chhineese use them to spy on the West and to figure out the best way to ship fenatnyll into the U.S. to kill Americans. Especially Ameerican kids.
I've seen the same thing happen on Bose wave radios that were used in a kitchen. One tiny drop of coffee or soda getting through the top vents and onto the double sided board will do horrendous damage, and the vias are so small that passing a fine piece of wire through them and soldering the wires on both sides of the board is quite difficult. One radio seemed to have the corrosion confined to about a square inch or inch and a half, and it looked like it should have been an easy repair, but it was far from it. The surface of the vias also had some kind of clear-ish varnish like solder mask or solder resist on them, so it wasn't easy to solder them either.
I had my head in my hands when Dave started with the brush. You really have to take the case apart first, or you just get more contamination inside the meter
The "crack" on the back-case is a result of blisterforming. The Fluke Yellow plastic contains a metal filler meant to be a fire-retardant. It is probably the same as what made ivory PC's yellow over age, as well as parts of washing machines.
Some of the Fluke meters are now made in China. The quality is terrible. Be cautious. I also ordered some "Fluke" meter leads from a Chinese distributor. They arrived and looked authentic. I used them for a while and started to detect some small differences from my older truly authentic Fluke leads. They felt more noodly like overcooked spaghetti and I played my hunch and cut and stripped one to have a closer look. Sure enough, I discovered that the number of stranded conductors in the lead was less than half that of the truly authentic Fluke 10 amp leads. Not only a fraudulent sale but a dangerous sale. There is no way these leads would have carried ten amps safely. I have learned over and over that the Chineese have no ethics when it comes to trade . (Or ethics in anything really) They are out to cheat you in every way possible and they have no compunction about theft of design or theft of cash. Steer clear of anything Chiinese. The only reason an Apple phone is of decent quality is because the Chhineese use them to spy on the West and to figure out the best way to ship fenatnyll into the U.S. to kill Americans. Especially Ameerican kids.
Not a metal filler, but may be some metal derivatives like a metal hydroxides. That's difference. And yes, plastic was broken by mechanical force of crystallizing chemicals. It even hasn't have to react with plastic, it can press against two parallel surfaces and break them.
The chemical which caused plastics (used in everything from PCs to washing machines to home appliances and more) from the last century to yellow is a fire retardant called Bromine. It's difficult to determine if it is still used in modern plastics.
@@kbs3055 indeed. It is a salt of a metal (Barium?) I'm not a chemist but I know a little bit of Chemistry as I had that during my study (Electro/Electronics). Usefull knowledge. Edit: After a bit looking around I found Bromine (not a metal) and compounds of Magnesium (among others). @ S W: Ivory PC's isn't that long ago, and I bought in 2009 a new washing machine that also has yellowed a lot before I had to replace it due to repeated computerboard faults (in 2015) by a new one.
I caught one in the act. They were 3 in series and I could actually hear it hissing. It sounded like the electrolyte was being boiled away. The whole battery was wet and it wasn't warm but it sounded like some tiny portion was being boiled. It may have just been gas escaping and bubbling through the wet seal. I was reluctant to put my ear too close because i was slightly afraid of some sort of failure of the battery, but more so, the battery was installed in a carbon monoxide detector that had just alarmed because of failing voltage or from detecting the gasses from the battery.
@@felixar90 lol. It actually still works. The leak only got to the battery terminals and not the PCB. They were soldered on with wires not directly to the PCB. Before anyone says something about it not being safe to continue to use, I am aware. There are no combustion sources in the building. It was brought in to make people feel better about using a propane heater in a warehouse during a cold snap. It would take days or weeks of continuous use in a sealed building of this size to become a problem.
I've had leaky batteries making funny noises in various devices. One night I fell asleep listen to a tape, actually I think my tape recorder was rewinding the tape and when I woke up, the tape recorder was making the most unusual ticking noise, and it kept making the noise even after I pressed the stop button, that really scared me a lot. I concluded the noise was coming from the batteries, which I believe were leaking.
It was hydrogen gas which developed inside the cell at such a high pressure as to overpower the seal by the negative electrode (cathode). When that happens, highly concentrated solution of potassium hydroxide escapes the cell. Potassium hydroxide in the solution then readily accepts carbon dioxide from the surrounding air and turns into potassium bicarbonate and carbonate, giving rise to the crystals commonly seen around leaky cells.
@@jenda386 That went a bit over my head, but it sure makes chemistry sound interesting. So clearly, a chemical reaction was occurring inside the batteries. I think they were Duracells, this was back in around 1992.
Worth a troubleshooting sesion :) I always enjoy your repair videos, they are my favorites, very educational too. Not a chance to have any reliable measurements with it if it ever powers again.. That isopropil bath took the contaminants all over the board and left them there once it evaporated so erratic behaviour due to leakage is very probable.. could be used as a higrometer, wackyer readings with increasing humidity :)
@@kbs3055 In my experience it is quite tough to clean multimeter boards to an acceptable level, they may work well at low humidity but not at high humidity, nS range may not zero, permanent dc offset in milivolt range, etc. With the right chemicals and process I am sure it can be properly cleaned. The other problem I see is calibration.. even if the board is cleaned perfectly the cal values will be off now and because it is a software calibrated meter it needs an expensive visit at a Fluke cal lab :) The 170 series is quite nice in that respect, you can self calibrate if you have some good standards at home without opening the case.
I'd definitely do a full bath in warm water first, with scrubbing, or some ultrasonic cleaning. Maybe a clean second bath. Then a full IPA bath. Reason is, you can safely assume those substances are a) much better soluble in water than in IPA and b) hygroscopic, so any trace amounts you leave behind will just continue corroding everything.
Over the years, I have advanced from alkalines to NiMH rechargables, having found NiCads useless, to NiZn rechargables (great voltages but short lifetimes in my experience), and finally to widely available LiIon rechargables. The latter appear to be meeting all the requirements. I have 3 sets of 4 along with two four-AA chargers. Back in the day, I found Duracells much more likely to spew than the Energizers, but alkalines be alkalines, in the final analysis. Also, consider switching to microfiber swabs. There are big flat ones and little pointy ones.
On the plastic breaking, I have seen the crud get into pre existing cracks or defects and as it dries and crystalizes it expands and breaks the plastic.
I actually just finished an LED work light leakage repair a day ago. I opted to never deal with leaky AAs in it again, and decided to gut the original 3xAA battery holder and go with a Li-ion-based solution. I added USB-C charging functionality and filled the battery compartment with 3300mAh worth of disposable vape batteries (thanks BigClive for that tip!).
That's why I use the pricey lithiums. I like the 9.V because they rarely leak and when it happens generally not that bad. The connector is readily available. And the connection is more positive and not dependent on the housing.
For rarely used light-duty devices like secondary remote controls, your n-th meter and the like, use dry cells so you don't have to worry about leaks anywhere near as much. I've never seen an alkaline battery eat through plastic before. Maybe Energizer's special sauce has compatibility issues with Fluke-yellow plastic.
Maybe the contacts corroded, expanded because of the oxidation and then mechanically broke off the plastic? Edit: Nevermind, saw the rest of the vid. Definitely chemical damage to the plastic itself. Very weird!
Perfect use for dry cells as they give a pretty good capacity under light load, e.g. people use expensive heavy-duty 9V batteries in smoke detectors when a dry cell will give the same life.
This is congruent with my Experiences regarding Energizer cells. Any time I get a device with “batteries included” and they’re Energizer alkaline, I swap them out straight away for anything else. The only lithium AA cells stocked in stores near me are Energizer, but thankfully they don’t seem to leak.
I'm very glad you made that video, because it prompted me to check on my trusty Agilent U1272 and prevent the worst. Just minimal corrosion on the board, no component was reached and some tiny chipping on the plastic. Can confirm battery leakage eats plastic and solder mask 😱Thanks, Dave!
For what Fluke charge for their meters (I know they’re worth the money) surely it can’t be that hard to have a leak-proof battery compartment. Also it’s a shame you can’t claim back from Energiser as the battery was still within its use by date. If they stand behind their product they should have to cough up! Craig
Energizer wouldn't replace a $10 Roku remote damaged by their batteries for my sister, I'm sure they'll weasel their way out of replacing a $400 multimeter.
I think that's also a flaw in construction of that Fluke. The battery compartment should be enough capsuled to prevent that from happening, especially on a high priced meter like a Fluke
The aftermath is similar to what a VARTA NiCAD clock battery did to one of my Microbees - many tracks disappeared & the electrolyte got sucked into the flexible ribbon cable eating it up.
Well not all sad stories. My parents had to temporarly move 6 years ago and my Tamiya RC car and it's remote were still in a box in storage so I had to come and pick it up. For fun I switched on the remote and still saw the battery meter move a bit. Inside were 8 Varta nicad AA cells. The box had been standing there since the late 80's. To bad I disposed them directly instead of trying to revive them. But this video again shows why I should take out the batts out of my stuff when I sometimes don't use them for months. As a matter of fact I am going to do that now.
Yeah, I learned that lesson with my Fluke 53II. Battery destroyed the metal tabs and got into the foamy innards of the conductive keypad. About $80 in parts later, I had a fully functional thermometer again. Expensive little lesson, that.
If something costs more that $150, I always use Energizer Lithium 1.5v cells. Too many hard lessons with standard alkaline cells. And always store it with the battery compartment facing down, so gravity works in your favor.
Just had the same problem with a $450 Fluke 233. PCB and plastic damage. A couple hours later I had the board cleaned up/recoated and plastic bits repaired to the extent possible using super glue and baking soda. It works but worried about long term issues I replaced the meter. This is a lesson I keep learning the hard way. BTW it was same energizer batteries. Also, the 233 has a removable remote display with its own set of batteries, and both parts experience the same damage.
I see the recommendations about Lithium AA and AAA batteries. I've actually switched all my batteries to Ni-MH ones for devices that run on them, which is most these days... Ni-MH _can_ leak, but I've never seen them do it. Certainly not as easily due to under voltage like normal alkaline just love to do. Both contain sodium-hydroxide by the way, which (if you get it hot enough) will eat glass. With normal leaking it kinda dries out, but if it's very humid it's hygroscopic enough to pull moisture in and go to town. The case was probably some fiber glass reinforced nylon which NaOH will eat better than it does ABS or HDPE for example.
@@borislipschitz2740 Yes and no: There exist low-self-discharge NiMH batteries, but people only look at the capacity when buying rechargable batteries.
Lithium are not fool proof. Instead, they get punctured and start fires. Something heavy falls on them, could result in disaster. My buddy's brother had an 18v cordless drill battery catch fire in his work van. My guess, he got careless and set something heavy on it and punctured it. Fortunately he caught it within enough time to prevent whole work van from going up in flames. But lost about $700 in work tools. Everything has a calculated risk.
Old classic synthesizer keyboards are often worth more now than when they were new, so many so many an ex- band member dug old synths out of their closets and brought them in for refurbs. Owners had no idea there was even a battery inside. It was amazing how many had been damaged by leakage from the 3v data backup batteries on the boards. Fortunately, traces could be jumped and through-hole components could be identified and replaced. Unfortunately many chips that were no longer available lost their legs. The batteries were not accessible without disassemby and were sometimes soldered in place.
That's true.. those damn on board batteries seem to be a real problem. Even when people know there's a battery in there, not everyone is capable or comfortable enough to open the thing up and remove the battery.
Sell it to Fluke so they can build a better battery compartment and work on a better plastic and solder mask, they need to design for these kinda things better.
I worked for a chemical company as an industrial instrumentation/calibration technician. Once a colorimeter was dropped off for repair. These units were everywhere. The instrument would not turn on. Check fuse...good. Power cord...good. Remove cover..no burn marks or odors. Top of PCB...looks good. I renove the 6 screws holding the PCB in place and turn it over. All the copper traces are gone and some discreet components just fall off. The lab where this unit was used, ran sample testing with hydrocloric acid. This lab always had a chemical odor. I pull a spare board from stock and all the spare boards had a conformal coating on the boards. This lab had three units and it was the oldest. I inspected the other units and they all had the coating on the boards.
this is why i have started to use rechargeable batteries in sensitive equipment, I also was a hair away from getting my 600 dollar fluke clamp meter getting ruined by leaky batteries. it´s really shitty how bad they are allowed to make batteries today
I ALWAYS use rechargeable batteries whenever possible ... I'm a fan of retro electronics and most devices one can get are dead due to leaking batteries. It's a nightmare to fix, but at least it is possible most of the time (thicker traces etc), but newer devices ... nope.
@@Gallowglas yeah. And I so just happened to check a vintage calculator I have and naturally the batteries had gone note 7 inside that device leaking everywhere and even rot away traces like in this video. I had to clean up and make new traces and got it working again but man I was pissed for that. It’s not even a risk they leak anymore, it is a guarantee
Given how little power most multimeters and IR remote controls use, I’m starting to wonder whether I should use old-fashioned carbon-zinc cells in them instead of alkaline.
Dave, about the batteries you have under test - put them in battery holders. I have a theory that it's the compression from the battery holds that assists in the leaking. That's why batteries tend to leak in devices and not in storage.
My experience is that after any amount of vinegar and IPA cleaning the damaged battery contacts seem to have difficulties. That in my cases has generally applied to nickel plated contact leafs. But I would be suspicious about the rotary switch contacts and the push button patterns, even while they are gold plated.
My experience is that the electrolytes found in batteries and capacitors has a low surface tension and a high wetting factor, and the stuff seems to be able to actually creep upwards against the force of gravity. Apparently it can pass right through solder joints as well. I kid you not. I have seen cases where small capacitors were hanging down from a circuit board with the foils facing upwards, and when the capacitors leaked the electrolyte somehow traveled upwards along the component leads and through the solder joints, and then ate into the solder mask and copper foils on the upwards-facing top side of the board.
Even before you'd got to the PCB I'd rushed to my box of "Sunday best" DMMs and removed and catalogued the batteries. Horrific, 18-rated. Thanks Dave, you did us all a solid there!
Poor Fluke! Yeah, I'm noticed it too - Energizers start to leak.. I'm catched few at job in battery powered LED decorations.. Best thing for that Fluke - damaged part of PCB needs to be wash with vinegar, then IPA and some troubleshooting/ repair video will be cool.. 😉 I think, lots of viewers want to get it in auction too.
Same here. Energizer just destroyed one of my meters, and a nice one too. It'll work on some ranges, but it's lost accuracy on others. Ate right through the solder mask and took out a few SMD resistors and capacitors.
Never seen it eat the plastic or the board before, usually just the springs. Energizer alkalines are getting pretty bad, I had some leak in like, two weeks recently. I use low self discharge NIMH where I can. I prefer 9v in multimeters, I feel like the construction of those has just a little protection.
@@erikdenhouter Several layers of saran wrap works better than the little plastic bags, and are less bulky, and it will be easier to put the meter back together.
@@erikdenhouter several layers of "cling wrap" will tend to wick up leakage fluids by capillary action, containing it. Saran was a brand name, like Kleenex.
Must have been a fluke 😉 But seriously anything that can erode plastic and solder mask is something you definitely don't want to be touching. My guess is possibly small components damage or a via is corroded out.
I only use Lithium AA and AAA batteries lately. Not sure when manufacturing became so cheap but it seems every Alkaline battery is prone to leaking these days.
Instead, Lithium are at risk to getting punctured and start fires. Something heavy falls on them, could result in disaster. My buddy's brother had an 18v cordless drill battery catch fire in his work van. My guess, he got careless and set something heavy on it and punctured it. Fortunately he caught it within enough time to prevent whole work van from going up in flames. But lost about $700 in work tools. Everything has a calculated risk.
@@equinoxshadow7190 An 18V cordless drill battery is a 4S pack of 18650 3.6 V rechargeable lithium cells, the high power-draw variety. That is something completely different than a 1.5 V lithium *primary* cell (non-rechargeable). Do you have any proof of those 1.5V AA or AAA primary lithium cells being a fire hazard? I never heard of it.
I don't know what the Energizer leakage guarantee is in Australia but in the US they will repair or replace the item where the Energizer batteries leaked. FWIW Duracell has the same guarantee which I have used many times.
Playing right into "big battery's" hand - keeping the cheap batteries crap and leaky so they can up sell you on high end batteries. Their plan is working...
@@gorak9000 lol, yeah i guess so. But I just don't wanna worry about it down the road. Like on my multimeter, those batteries could stay in there for a decade or more tbh. I do use rechargeable NiMH for stuff that drains fast. It works out a lot cheaper even though they don't last as long.
@@Evansmustard The capacity on Eneloop NiMH is actually really high and their voltage curve is way better than alkalines (you can use more of the energy at a decent voltage compared to the linear voltage drop in alkalines). If they don't last long, it's just because the devices are not optimized for NiMH usage. But it doesn't really matter because you can just reload them whenever you like and they last forever (10 years no problem, 15 years even, with daily use)
Back when Energizer was called Eveready (Union Carbide), they had, printed on each battery, a guarantee that they would replace flashlights damaged by a leaky battery. I actually got a Maglite replaced that way once. If you want to pursue the board repair, NorthridgeFix (on UA-cam) has all the tricks.
I am glad by 40 year old Fluke 8020A uses a 9v battery. The battery is in it's own compartment and 9 volt's seem to die without leaking. But I still keep the battery removed and in a zipper bag when not using the meter. Wired 9 volt connectors are still available and easy to replace.
If someone has the same Fluke meter, he/she can send the values of those 2 resistors, I think that would be the fastest repair if it's only because of them.
There is a good chance of it being just the 2 metal film SMD resistors. They are almost definitely gone and considering how close they are to the MCU they can be very important for its correct startup and operation.
As other below, we only use Lithiums for ALL our gear. Use C-cell & D-cell "adapters" to replace larger sizes, where x2 or x3 AAs are paralleled. Multiple AAA and AAAA adapters are also available.
I've found old gear with 20 year old, non-leaking dead batteries, but after having Duracells ruin gear before they've fully discharged, and leaking within a month of going dead, I thought that Energizers were the answer. It has been for a few years, but now I'm having Energizer leaks. I'd love to hear from one of the companies' battery engineers regarding what they've cheapened to make them fail so often and badly...
I stopped using "alkaline waste" some time ago. In devices that are expected to last on batteries less than let's say 2 years I use rechargeables (Eneloop). For really low drain devicess I use Energizer Lithium primaries (quite expensive but when they last in device 5 years it really does not matter) Never had any leak since I ditched those alkalines.
I'm pretty paranoid about alkaline leakage at this point so all of my electronics use either Energizer Ultimate Lithium primaries or Eneloop NiMH rechargeables. I just recently bought a bunch of AA to D and AAA to C converters as well to replace my C and D alkaline batteries with Eneloops. A bit expensive at the start to convert over, but cheaper than replacing expensive gear in the long run!
who stores highly valuable kit with the batteries still in? No disrespect Davo, but this one is on you. You know better after decades in the electronics industry. lol
Poor Fluke, but thank you Dave. I had identical batteries (expiration date 12-2024) in an identical multimeter (also has a protective film ;-) - I use it as rarely as you). They still had 1.51V, but one of them had very slight signs of leakage at the negative pole.
Hey mate. Had the same issue with a an IR Thermometer, Fluke of course. The battery leaking fluid ate the plastic casing. The thermometer still working though, saved just in time. I could not believe. The battery compartment should be sealed off - that is the perfect single point failure example.
To fix traces you take very thin single strand copper wire without any covering and run it along the trace. Soldering it at the beginning and the end. Do it for all of them and then cover them in either super glue or better yet conformal coating
If you have boxes of multimeters laying around, maybe consider auction (or giving) them away to someone who needs them more. And it's environmentally friendly too...
First thing I was taught as a child, regarding batteries, was to remove them if they were not in daily use. Good rule of thumb. I wish I could stick to that rule, we all forget and unless we are lucky will pay the price !
Same as the Seaward PAT I bought to test gear for a bi-annual event. 2 years between uses was too much. Good lesson for removing batteries on everything.
Well that's certainly disappointing and concerning regarding Energizers. I've never had any leaking issues from them so I was very surprised at this video. I've checked my Multimeters and only one had a couple of Energizer cells. On first glance they looked fine but checking closer one definitely had droplets on the negative terminal as seen under magnification, but no corrosion yet. Caught just in time I'd say. These cells were made in Singapore and have an expiry date of 12/2026! I've now put in some Lithiums as NiMh made the display way too dim. I guess that I'll just be getting Lithium from now on for this sort of usage.
That's the way to go: either Eneloop NiMH or Lithium primary cells. The Eneloop will work and make sense in a lot of devices, and where they don't: lithium.
When I had stuff damaged by Duraleaks, I sent them email with pics of the damage, and the batteries. They told me to go find a replacement device, and they cut me a check for it. You might see if NeverReady has the same policy and warranty.
This is the reason why I use only nimh to replace AAA and AA alkaleaks. I use those cells to replace C/D cells with adapters. (3 AA to one D) and devices where I can't use nimhs (lower voltage alarm or if rechargeable has too low capacity, typically 9V nimh has too small capacity.) then I use lithium batterys.
I have not seen solder mask come off like that. I think the pressure and temperature affects the battery leakage. Again way more often Duracell. Once I get everything cleaned up I usually go over any traces with some solder and now I would be inclined to put some nail polish over. I wonder if the pressure of the case on the board caused it to wink in between and affect the masking more? In some cases I suspect low level current drain might have an effect on the leaking.
In Australia Energizer will replace damaged gear if damaged from their cells. Give them a call, they will want to know the date and batch info (you will need to send photos).
I just cleaned up an old hiking GPS that had some leaked rayovacs. It dissolved some of the plastic so the perfectly fine metal bridge between the 2 batts had nothing to hold it in place anymore. It still works but now when I change batteries I'll have to be careful not to lose the metal bridge that is just sitting in the end of the compartment now.
Best thing I found to clean up the battery corrosion is the liquid rust converters that have phosphoric acid in them. Takes it right off. Boeshield Rust Free, Krud Kutter rust converter, the old Jasco Prep and Prime. All of them have a weak solution of phosphoric acid. Works better than vinegar ...
This is why you need to treat the battery compartment as an outdoor environment in device design. The entire PCB should be shielded from the chemicals that can leak from a battery, the same way it is protected from external influences.
Sorry to see you having the leaky alkaline headaches, I've since migrated to 'Lithium' non-rechargeable cells and 9 volt batts for all my test equipment and have never had a leakage issue. Well worth the extra cost of not having to replace/repair test equipment...
I use my meters too much for the batteries to have time to leak. They go dead way before that due to the hours I put on them. And I NEVER leave a known-dead battery in anything, even for a day.
Three questions: 1) why is the battery compartment not sealed against battery leaks? It can't be difficult to isolate the battery compartment to stop battery chemicals from accessing the product PCB. 2) what os the plastic case made of, is it makes with a chemical symbol? 3) Why is the case plastic not selected to be impervious to battery chemicals? Polypropylene and high density polyethylene is extremely resistant to corrosive chemicals.
The other day I found someone forgot to take the batteries out of my TI-83, and of course they leaked which killed it. AGAIN! That's Twice now! 🤬🤬 I was thinking for the next one I might try dip coating the batteries with conformal coating, then scrape off just enough on each end to make contact. I really don't want the hassle doing that every battery change so I might just try painting the coating inside the battery compartment instead. Just not sure if it would cause battery fit issues, but either way, I can't keep buying new TI's every time.
Use lithium primary batteries, they are expensive, but will last forever in a calculator. They usually have a 10 year expiry period, I have never seen one leaking. I've seen videos of lithium primary backup batteries leaking in old Apple computers, now that's insane. They destroy everything beyond repair very quickly. So be aware to replace the lithium AA cells before the expiry date. Just in case...
@@mrnmrn1 The expiry date on the Energizer Lithium AA and AAA is 20 years, the 9V are 10 years. These are usually recommended for critical equipment like smoke detectors. They also have a significantly higher capacity than alkaline cells, so they're not that expensive in comparison.
When I first started using alkaline batteries the great thing was that they didn't leak unlike the cheaper zinc carbon batteries. I think the leaking problem came about due to a change of chemistry to "environmentally friendly" mercury free .
Send it to My Mate Vince or StezStix Fix. I've had Rayovac batteries leak but mostly when they were used up. They make fizzing sounds in the bin. I've never had the single use lithium AAs leak and they last a very long time.
I tend to only use the Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries in my meters and other things which only see a battery change once every few years. Have never had a leak. I know they have been tested to last well over 20 years.
I wouldn't mind giving this a go to try and repair it. If you still have it and you're serious about selling it I'd definitely buy it from you just for a challenge 😉
All batteries leak, when alkaline battery gets below 10% the polarity reverses and they start to leak. Had problems with duracell quality, they don't last as long as they should. When you replace hundreds of batteries that's a problem.
"Energizer! You were the chosen one! You were meant to replace Duraleaks, not be them!"
They all seem to do it nowadays, always cleaning the remotes from batteries dropping their guts.
I guess the prophecy has yet to be fulfilled, will it be the lithium (probably not,🧨🎆) maybe solid-state battery then? The chosen ones must return soon.
@@ozzybloke4830 yeah I actually have this happen 10 times more with Energizer, but I assume they're about the same.
Years ago I used to use Duracell I only had a few small leaks over 30 years, battery discoloured but device not damaged.
These days I only really have access to energizer but in the past 10 years it feels worse than before. Not just battery damage but leaking through the entire device. However that could just be all the kids toys and just the increase in battery use.
I haven't seen any statistics on the degree of damage cause and the frequency with different brands.
However my local store only sells everready or energizer so energizer is really my only choice. Majority of the time it's fine for years.
I wish I didn't have to stress over finding batteries to remove.
Don't use alkaline batteries. They all leak. I have never seen a leaking NiMH or Lithium cell yet.
@@Commander_ZiN They are made in the same group of Chinese alkaline battery manufacturers, so all are cheaply made, but sold at a premium price. One of these though has a quality battery, which is used by all of the brand names for the professional and the industrial grade branding. I had some of those in Airmatic machines, those things were white sleeve, no manufacturer at all, and I never had one in hundreds ever leak, even 5 years after the expiry date. Just you cannot buy them.
Always store the meters with display facing up. This will prevent the electrolyte from reaching the pcb. I learned this hard way
Good tip.
Something about the chemical makeup of the electrolyte fluid seems to give it a low surface tension and high wetting properties, therefore it can apparently flow upwards along vertical surfaces! I have seen this happen with small capacitors that hang upside down from a circuit board: when they leak, the electrolyte seems to creep up the leads, passes right through the solder joints, and onto the upward-facing foil side of the board, where it eats at the lacquered foils. You wouldn't think this is possible but I've seen it happen a number of times.
Better yet, never use alkaline batteries in these meters. They are disposable batteries for disposable devices. Never use alkaline batteries in any device worth more than the batteries. Use only Eveready Ultimate Lithium or Eneloop rechargeable cells in these meters. And like you, I learned the hard way!
@@NCF8710 nice tip. I learned the hard way too... after 10 years with a good 'not fluke multimeter' and one season in a harsh and warm weather did the trick on alkaline batteries... solder mask, copper traces and the plastic just gone.. sad story
@@NCF8710sorry but eneloop also leak. They have leaked in one of the meters that I have. That is the best I can buy locally. Each and every battry can leak under correct circumstances. So now I use this way to protect the meters.
I'd definitely love to see a repair video on this thing. Exactly because it does appear to be a moderately challenging repair and indeed one that might not otherwise be economically viable. But for educational value? Can't beat it. Show us how it's done, Dave!
I'd love Dave to do a few repair videos similar to what My Mate Vince does. Or post it to My Mate Vince for him to repair!
I would rather he attempt to get the battery guarantee to pay off before falling back on that.
The problem is that the contamination has got inside the circuit board.. Probably unrepairable.
I think it's one of the vias. I recently repaired a Fluke 177 which was competely dead. Turned out there was a corroded via in the first few centimeters of the positive battery line that even didn't look that bad. Those blackened vias in the video look worse. I'd check these next....
White vinegar is your friend.....
Energizer has a no leaks guarantee. I would try to take them up on it and see how they react.
That doesn't apply to the normal energizer batteries.
And these weren't even past their expiration date.
Contacting them is a nghtmare. Don't bother. Getting them to even replace the battery that failed isn't worth the effort.
I can hear it now: "You must've done something wrong" _call disconnected_
@@DefinitelyNotHaraku Didn't Dave read something that said those were industrial batteries?
Strong bases like sodium or potassium hydroxide are used for removing solder mask. Alkaline batteries usually use potassium hydroxide as an electrolyte.
whoah...a miniature car batteriy!! corrosive electrolyte....No way! Who protect our electronics??...an eye on my electroacoustic guitars all with preamps and batteries inside!!!
I run Lithium AA and AAA batteries in all my test gear. Lasts for a lot longer, and never leak. I'm talking about the non rechargeable variety, "Energizer ultimate lithium" etc. Mice, radio controllers remotes etc. Lasts a lot longer, and as I said, never leaks.
Yeah, I use those on really critical stuff. Very expensive.
I'll switch to those for sure. These garbage batteries annoy me no end.
@@EEVblog They're not _too_ expensive if you get them from Digikey. The markup on consumer packaged batteries is insane.
@@EEVblog , if you factor in the savings in repair, downtime and lost equipment they seem a much better deal, especially if you buy them in bulk from DigiKey.
NiMH rechargeable batteries are much less prone to leakage. Lower voltage, though.
Thanks Dave, I checked my fluke 17B and looks like my Energizer batteries, just started leaking! No damage. So glad that your video made me check now, cuz I've been pushing it and thinking they're fine, will check later!
Phew!
If it's a 4- layer PCB and vias are corroded, the via connection to inner layers may be broken. that would be bad....
That's what I'm hoping isn't the case. Will try a repair.
@mikeselectricstuff - 4 layers. EEK!! how the heck can anything with more than two sides be repaired? .. is there a way to identify components in a board sandwich? how do they get separated?
@@EEVblog Sadly it is a 4 layer board. You can see the layer check (whats the correct term for that?) for the board fabrication at ua-cam.com/video/7dze5CnZnmk/v-deo.html on the edge of the PCB...
I've seen Louis Rossmann do multi-layer repair, but that's mostly just scrape and dig until the top layer isn't shorting to some internal layer, not reconnecting a via to an internal layer. If you can get a schematic, you're probably better off running a bodge wire from the via to some other via or trace where it pops back up rather than trying to repair a connection to an inner layer. The only saving grace is they are not (yet) putting components on the inner layers, so at some point all inner layer traces have to pop back to the surface.
@@gorak9000 will that be the future? Components inside the layers? 😆
I've had this exact same thing happen to my Fluke meter as well.
The batteries leaked and corroded the contacts and also did some damage to the board inside.
They should make thee battery compartment sealed because there's always going to be cells that leak.
The 3 battery compartment should be modular, easily removable and replaceable, and the recessed well that it sits into on the back of the meter should similarly be sealed, except for a tiny hole where the battery leads pass through into the meter, and that can be sealed with silicone. If you wanted to be truly certain to capture any leakage, you could wrap the separate battery- holder in Saran wrap (cellophane food wrap, "cling wrap" etc) which is what I do with 9 V batteries.
Fluke 289 actually having a nice modular battery compartment
Can you imagine how many electronic devices have been destroyed over the years because of leaky batteries, especially retro stuff.
The crazy part is that people will still pay big money for non-working retro gear, which in many cases is no longer working because a leaky battery (usually a Varta NiCd) has leaked and trashed large sections of the main board. Certain models of Mac and Amiga are particularly bad for this.
Don't all these battery companies supposedly have 'warranties' to fix stuff their shitty batteries leak into? Time to test it out! Also, while I enjoy these videos, I'm still trying to figure out what a "pissy bee" is :)
I think they mostly apply to replacing the bad batteries and not the products they destroy. Honestly think alkaline battered need to be discontinued if they cant be made leak proof.
Varta, the destroyer of motherboards. Closely followed by Duraleak batteries.
@@gorak9000 you’ll know when you see one, quite painful.
Ouch, that's a really bad leak, seen similar plastic and solder mask damage before but only even with two decade old batteries, never with a still in-date Energizer. Now I'm scared my Excel sheet of battery replacements by expiry date isn't enough!
Would be very interested in you testing the Energizer leakage guarantee (not with your Twitter power but as a normal consumer), I hear they do actually honor it and will send you a payment for the value of the item. But I wonder if they would actually compensate you for this or pull the good old "Australia isn't a real country, so we can't offer support on your issue" which I often get from other companies.
No they won't. I had a brand new battery leak INSIDE the packet. Dealing with them was a nightmare. They don't give a crap.
The only time I've seen solder mask corrosion like that is when electrolytic caps leak, and the electrolyte is allowed to stay on the board for a long time. It eats through solder mask, and attacks the copper too. You end up with a real mess (or really good bargains on really expensive equipment depending on how you look at it)
Isn't Australia in Europe? Oh, wait...
The flashlight forums see a lot of refund action from the battery makers so worth a shot!
>Excel sheet of battery replacements
I thought I had everything in Excel. Now I got something to do tomorrow.
Rayovac paid for a replacement ZTS battery tester from leaking cells. I believe I had to email a photo, and provide lot numbers from the cells. They took care of it, and it was a pretty easy process. I think Energizer has a similar leakage guarantee.
Yeah I'd like to see Dave try his luck with that.
I am wondering if those special industrial spec Energizer cells don’t have the warranty that their consumer cells have.
Many years ago I had Rayovac D cells destroy a nice chrome plated brass flashlight. They sent me a replacement which was cheap plastic. At that point it wasn’t worth pursuing complaining further.
@@wtmayhew I wonder how many folks actually make use of the warranty.
@@brettfo I would hazard a guess that not too many people exercise their battery warranties. From other comments here, it seems that it is difficult to get Energizer to respond to claims. Rayovac did respond in my case, but it was quite a few years ago.
The electrolyte from leaky capacitors can also destroy things... as I learned at considerable expense some years ago, when my third-hand Tektronix digital oscilloscope of a certain vintage developed leaky capacitors (the scope having been made during the time when Tek was using off-brand caps), causing irreparable damage to a zillion-layer PC board. This turned out to be a known failure mode for certain models, with the only solution being to replace all the electrolytic caps before they failed.
I haven't lost any equipment to leaky alkaline cells lately, but I've certainly noted used-up cells (including name brands) leaking copiously while awaiting disposal.
They always warn you to remove batteries, prior to longer storage. If only we had time machines to notify us ahead of time when long-term storage begins. Of course, manufacturers want the devices to disintegrate, so you have to buy a new one. But wouldn't it be great if the battery compartment could pop off, or at least semi-detach.
The battery department really should be modular and sealed, and only 2 wires should pass through from the battery compartment into the meter itself, with some silicone to seal it. When I install 9 V batteries I use the non rechargeable lithium infused Energizer batteries, and I wrap them in Saran wrap just in case, although I have never seen one leak; nor have I seen the double or triple A Eveready lithium batteries leak.
I would check all the corroded vias. I remember specifically seeing a via on an old HP power supply just not conduct through to the other side because of corrosion, and fixing that brought it to life. With this battery gunk seeping thorough inside the vias and onto the other side, chances are it ruined the connection inside those vias.
Some of the Fluke meters are now made in China. The quality is terrible. Be cautious. I also ordered some "Fluke" meter leads from a Chinese distributor. They arrived and looked authentic. I used them for a while and started to detect some small differences from my older truly authentic Fluke leads. They felt more noodly like overcooked spaghetti and I played my hunch and cut and stripped one to have a closer look. Sure enough, I discovered that the number of stranded conductors in the lead was less than half that of the truly authentic Fluke 10 amp leads. Not only a fraudulent sale but a dangerous sale. There is no way these leads would have carried ten amps safely. I have learned over and over that the Chineese have no ethics when it comes to trade . (Or ethics in anything really) They are out to cheat you in every way possible and they have no compunction about theft of design or theft of cash. Steer clear of anything Chiinese. The only reason an Apple phone is of decent quality is because the Chhineese use them to spy on the West and to figure out the best way to ship fenatnyll into the U.S. to kill Americans. Especially Ameerican kids.
How to you fix a corroded via? Drop solder in it?
@@waldolemmer I had some luck once by drilling a via out with a tiny drill bit and then pulling a small wire through.
I've seen the same thing happen on Bose wave radios that were used in a kitchen. One tiny drop of coffee or soda getting through the top vents and onto the double sided board will do horrendous damage, and the vias are so small that passing a fine piece of wire through them and soldering the wires on both sides of the board is quite difficult. One radio seemed to have the corrosion confined to about a square inch or inch and a half, and it looked like it should have been an easy repair, but it was far from it. The surface of the vias also had some kind of clear-ish varnish like solder mask or solder resist on them, so it wasn't easy to solder them either.
@@waldolemmer I fixed it with a jumper wire connecting the trace to where it needed to go.
I had my head in my hands when Dave started with the brush. You really have to take the case apart first, or you just get more contamination inside the meter
@Aussie Doomer To some extent, though a good scrubbing will likely remove more than is necessarily needed...
White vinegar is a fairly strong acid, it can have a pH between 1 and 2. That is a pretty aggressive wire brush too.
The "crack" on the back-case is a result of blisterforming.
The Fluke Yellow plastic contains a metal filler meant to be a fire-retardant. It is probably the same as what made ivory PC's yellow over age, as well as parts of washing machines.
Some of the Fluke meters are now made in China. The quality is terrible. Be cautious. I also ordered some "Fluke" meter leads from a Chinese distributor. They arrived and looked authentic. I used them for a while and started to detect some small differences from my older truly authentic Fluke leads. They felt more noodly like overcooked spaghetti and I played my hunch and cut and stripped one to have a closer look. Sure enough, I discovered that the number of stranded conductors in the lead was less than half that of the truly authentic Fluke 10 amp leads. Not only a fraudulent sale but a dangerous sale. There is no way these leads would have carried ten amps safely. I have learned over and over that the Chineese have no ethics when it comes to trade . (Or ethics in anything really) They are out to cheat you in every way possible and they have no compunction about theft of design or theft of cash. Steer clear of anything Chiinese. The only reason an Apple phone is of decent quality is because the Chhineese use them to spy on the West and to figure out the best way to ship fenatnyll into the U.S. to kill Americans. Especially Ameerican kids.
Oh, that makes sense. Interesting.
Not a metal filler, but may be some metal derivatives like a metal hydroxides. That's difference.
And yes, plastic was broken by mechanical force of crystallizing chemicals. It even hasn't have to react with plastic, it can press against two parallel surfaces and break them.
The chemical which caused plastics (used in everything from PCs to washing machines to home appliances and more) from the last century to yellow is a fire retardant called Bromine. It's difficult to determine if it is still used in modern plastics.
@@kbs3055 indeed. It is a salt of a metal (Barium?) I'm not a chemist but I know a little bit of Chemistry as I had that during my study (Electro/Electronics). Usefull knowledge.
Edit: After a bit looking around I found Bromine (not a metal) and compounds of Magnesium (among others).
@ S W: Ivory PC's isn't that long ago, and I bought in 2009 a new washing machine that also has yellowed a lot before I had to replace it due to repeated computerboard faults (in 2015) by a new one.
I caught one in the act. They were 3 in series and I could actually hear it hissing. It sounded like the electrolyte was being boiled away. The whole battery was wet and it wasn't warm but it sounded like some tiny portion was being boiled. It may have just been gas escaping and bubbling through the wet seal. I was reluctant to put my ear too close because i was slightly afraid of some sort of failure of the battery, but more so, the battery was installed in a carbon monoxide detector that had just alarmed because of failing voltage or from detecting the gasses from the battery.
lmao if the very last thing that detector did was detecting itself.
"i have become what i sought to destroy"
@@felixar90 lol. It actually still works. The leak only got to the battery terminals and not the PCB. They were soldered on with wires not directly to the PCB.
Before anyone says something about it not being safe to continue to use, I am aware. There are no combustion sources in the building. It was brought in to make people feel better about using a propane heater in a warehouse during a cold snap. It would take days or weeks of continuous use in a sealed building of this size to become a problem.
I've had leaky batteries making funny noises in various devices. One night I fell asleep listen to a tape, actually I think my tape recorder was rewinding the tape and when I woke up, the tape recorder was making the most unusual ticking noise, and it kept making the noise even after I pressed the stop button, that really scared me a lot. I concluded the noise was coming from the batteries, which I believe were leaking.
It was hydrogen gas which developed inside the cell at such a high pressure as to overpower the seal by the negative electrode (cathode). When that happens, highly concentrated solution of potassium hydroxide escapes the cell. Potassium hydroxide in the solution then readily accepts carbon dioxide from the surrounding air and turns into potassium bicarbonate and carbonate, giving rise to the crystals commonly seen around leaky cells.
@@jenda386 That went a bit over my head, but it sure makes chemistry sound interesting. So clearly, a chemical reaction was occurring inside the batteries. I think they were Duracells, this was back in around 1992.
Worth a troubleshooting sesion :) I always enjoy your repair videos, they are my favorites, very educational too. Not a chance to have any reliable measurements with it if it ever powers again.. That isopropil bath took the contaminants all over the board and left them there once it evaporated so erratic behaviour due to leakage is very probable.. could be used as a higrometer, wackyer readings with increasing humidity :)
Contaminants from the surface can be washed, but he needs to remove (grind) the affected, soaked part of the PCB. So it's not worth it.
@@kbs3055 In my experience it is quite tough to clean multimeter boards to an acceptable level, they may work well at low humidity but not at high humidity, nS range may not zero, permanent dc offset in milivolt range, etc. With the right chemicals and process I am sure it can be properly cleaned. The other problem I see is calibration.. even if the board is cleaned perfectly the cal values will be off now and because it is a software calibrated meter it needs an expensive visit at a Fluke cal lab :) The 170 series is quite nice in that respect, you can self calibrate if you have some good standards at home without opening the case.
I'd definitely do a full bath in warm water first, with scrubbing, or some ultrasonic cleaning. Maybe a clean second bath. Then a full IPA bath. Reason is, you can safely assume those substances are a) much better soluble in water than in IPA and b) hygroscopic, so any trace amounts you leave behind will just continue corroding everything.
Preferably distilled water, at least for the final rinse.
Over the years, I have advanced from alkalines to NiMH rechargables, having found NiCads useless, to NiZn rechargables (great voltages but short lifetimes in my experience), and finally to widely available LiIon rechargables. The latter appear to be meeting all the requirements. I have 3 sets of 4 along with two four-AA chargers. Back in the day, I found Duracells much more likely to spew than the Energizers, but alkalines be alkalines, in the final analysis.
Also, consider switching to microfiber swabs. There are big flat ones and little pointy ones.
On the plastic breaking, I have seen the crud get into pre existing cracks or defects and as it dries and crystalizes it expands and breaks the plastic.
With as many meters as you have, you are uniquely prepared for this moment. The universe is in balance.
Use one of the others while testing this one, forget to take the batteries out... the circle of life
I actually just finished an LED work light leakage repair a day ago. I opted to never deal with leaky AAs in it again, and decided to gut the original 3xAA battery holder and go with a Li-ion-based solution. I added USB-C charging functionality and filled the battery compartment with 3300mAh worth of disposable vape batteries (thanks BigClive for that tip!).
I only use Eneloop, never had one leak and they last forever, my oldest ones are Sanyo branded, still works great.
I agree. I've used them in my Fluke multimeter for years without issue.
That's why I use the pricey lithiums. I like the 9.V because they rarely leak and when it happens generally not that bad. The connector is readily available. And the connection is more positive and not dependent on the housing.
Exactly that! 😉
For rarely used light-duty devices like secondary remote controls, your n-th meter and the like, use dry cells so you don't have to worry about leaks anywhere near as much.
I've never seen an alkaline battery eat through plastic before. Maybe Energizer's special sauce has compatibility issues with Fluke-yellow plastic.
Maybe the contacts corroded, expanded because of the oxidation and then mechanically broke off the plastic?
Edit: Nevermind, saw the rest of the vid. Definitely chemical damage to the plastic itself. Very weird!
Perfect use for dry cells as they give a pretty good capacity under light load, e.g. people use expensive heavy-duty 9V batteries in smoke detectors when a dry cell will give the same life.
If the Batterys in date and still holding charge you should hit energizer up for a replacement meter. Be interesting to see there response.
Those energizers kept going and going for sure.
they just keep leaking... and leaking... and leaking.
.... Maybe a new TV commercial ?
Energizer Bunny with acid leaking from his anus ?
When you gotta go, you really gotta go!
When he said "that's terrible Muriel!", I immediately thought of Courage the Cowardly Dog
This is congruent with my Experiences regarding Energizer cells. Any time I get a device with “batteries included” and they’re Energizer alkaline, I swap them out straight away for anything else. The only lithium AA cells stocked in stores near me are Energizer, but thankfully they don’t seem to leak.
I would love to repair this for you! :) Your videos have been a huge inspiration to me and it would be an honor to get this working for you!
I'm very glad you made that video, because it prompted me to check on my trusty Agilent U1272 and prevent the worst. Just minimal corrosion on the board, no component was reached and some tiny chipping on the plastic. Can confirm battery leakage eats plastic and solder mask 😱Thanks, Dave!
For what Fluke charge for their meters (I know they’re worth the money) surely it can’t be that hard to have a leak-proof battery compartment. Also it’s a shame you can’t claim back from Energiser as the battery was still within its use by date. If they stand behind their product they should have to cough up! Craig
Energizer wouldn't replace a $10 Roku remote damaged by their batteries for my sister, I'm sure they'll weasel their way out of replacing a $400 multimeter.
I think that's also a flaw in construction of that Fluke. The battery compartment should be enough capsuled to prevent that from happening, especially on a high priced meter like a Fluke
The aftermath is similar to what a VARTA NiCAD clock battery did to one of my Microbees - many tracks disappeared & the electrolyte got sucked into the flexible ribbon cable eating it up.
*sad face*
Well not all sad stories. My parents had to temporarly move 6 years ago and my Tamiya RC car and it's remote were still in a box in storage so I had to come and pick it up. For fun I switched on the remote and still saw the battery meter move a bit. Inside were 8 Varta nicad AA cells. The box had been standing there since the late 80's. To bad I disposed them directly instead of trying to revive them.
But this video again shows why I should take out the batts out of my stuff when I sometimes don't use them for months. As a matter of fact I am going to do that now.
Yeah, I learned that lesson with my Fluke 53II. Battery destroyed the metal tabs and got into the foamy innards of the conductive keypad. About $80 in parts later, I had a fully functional thermometer again. Expensive little lesson, that.
If something costs more that $150, I always use Energizer Lithium 1.5v cells. Too many hard lessons with standard alkaline cells. And always store it with the battery compartment facing down, so gravity works in your favor.
Just had the same problem with a $450 Fluke 233. PCB and plastic damage. A couple hours later I had the board cleaned up/recoated and plastic bits repaired to the extent possible using super glue and baking soda. It works but worried about long term issues I replaced the meter. This is a lesson I keep learning the hard way. BTW it was same energizer batteries. Also, the 233 has a removable remote display with its own set of batteries, and both parts experience the same damage.
They're just sticking to their slogan: "keeps going, and going, and going...."
I suspect they're using alien blood.
Thanks Mate! I just checked the multimeter I keep in my car. 9V battery flat. Next stage would have been leaking. You saved me a meter.
I see the recommendations about Lithium AA and AAA batteries. I've actually switched all my batteries to Ni-MH ones for devices that run on them, which is most these days... Ni-MH _can_ leak, but I've never seen them do it. Certainly not as easily due to under voltage like normal alkaline just love to do.
Both contain sodium-hydroxide by the way, which (if you get it hot enough) will eat glass. With normal leaking it kinda dries out, but if it's very humid it's hygroscopic enough to pull moisture in and go to town. The case was probably some fiber glass reinforced nylon which NaOH will eat better than it does ABS or HDPE for example.
I've seen one cheap Ni-MH battery leak and I was surprised that they could do that.
One ugly disadvantage of NiMh is self discharge, thought.
@@borislipschitz2740 Yes and no: There exist low-self-discharge NiMH batteries, but people only look at the capacity when buying rechargable batteries.
Lithium are not fool proof.
Instead, they get punctured and start fires. Something heavy falls on them, could result in disaster.
My buddy's brother had an 18v cordless drill battery catch fire in his work van.
My guess, he got careless and set something heavy on it and punctured it.
Fortunately he caught it within enough time to prevent whole work van from going up in flames. But lost about $700 in work tools. Everything has a calculated risk.
@@equinoxshadow7190 That sounds like a Li-ion rechargable battery. Disposable lithium 1.5V AA batteries have, to my knowledge, no puncturing hazards.
Old classic synthesizer keyboards are often worth more now than when they were new, so many so many an ex- band member dug old synths out of their closets and brought them in for refurbs. Owners had no idea there was even a battery inside. It was amazing how many had been damaged by leakage from the 3v data backup batteries on the boards. Fortunately, traces could be jumped and through-hole components could be identified and replaced. Unfortunately many chips that were no longer available lost their legs. The batteries were not accessible without disassemby and were sometimes soldered in place.
That's true.. those damn on board batteries seem to be a real problem. Even when people know there's a battery in there, not everyone is capable or comfortable enough to open the thing up and remove the battery.
Sell it to Fluke so they can build a better battery compartment and work on a better plastic and solder mask, they need to design for these kinda things better.
16:14 ... "Wrapped in plastic" got that obscure reference... bravo Dave :)
1st time I seen plastic like that. Wonder what leaked down the vias to the other side?
I worked for a chemical company as an industrial instrumentation/calibration technician. Once a colorimeter was dropped off for repair. These units were everywhere. The instrument would not turn on. Check fuse...good. Power cord...good. Remove cover..no burn marks or odors. Top of PCB...looks good. I renove the 6 screws holding the PCB in place and turn it over. All the copper traces are gone and some discreet components just fall off. The lab where this unit was used, ran sample testing with hydrocloric acid. This lab always had a chemical odor. I pull a spare board from stock and all the spare boards had a conformal coating on the boards. This lab had three units and it was the oldest. I inspected the other units and they all had the coating on the boards.
this is why i have started to use rechargeable batteries in sensitive equipment, I also was a hair away from getting my 600 dollar fluke clamp meter getting ruined by leaky batteries. it´s really shitty how bad they are allowed to make batteries today
I ALWAYS use rechargeable batteries whenever possible ... I'm a fan of retro electronics and most devices one can get are dead due to leaking batteries. It's a nightmare to fix, but at least it is possible most of the time (thicker traces etc), but newer devices ... nope.
@@Gallowglas yeah. And I so just happened to check a vintage calculator I have and naturally the batteries had gone note 7 inside that device leaking everywhere and even rot away traces like in this video. I had to clean up and make new traces and got it working again but man I was pissed for that. It’s not even a risk they leak anymore, it is a guarantee
Now at the EEVblog lab: Topless resistors!
Given how little power most multimeters and IR remote controls use, I’m starting to wonder whether I should use old-fashioned carbon-zinc cells in them instead of alkaline.
I have found carbon zinc in stuff that are decades old and not leaked. But not all.
Carbon zinc doesn't contain any liquid, so they can't leak.
Nice! Dave.
Looks like a good Repair video.
Those Energizer bunnies really gave it a energy boost!
Dave, about the batteries you have under test - put them in battery holders. I have a theory that it's the compression from the battery holds that assists in the leaking. That's why batteries tend to leak in devices and not in storage.
Some of mine were in battery holders with a resistor load, still didn't leak.
@@EEVblog :( A watched battery never leaks.
When in a device, the off is never really off. Thus one battery will drain and get a reverse charge and initiate the leak
My experience is that after any amount of vinegar and IPA cleaning the damaged battery contacts seem to have difficulties. That in my cases has generally applied to nickel plated contact leafs. But I would be suspicious about the rotary switch contacts and the push button patterns, even while they are gold plated.
An old electrician told me to always store them face-up so that any leaking remains on the battery compartment
My experience is that the electrolytes found in batteries and capacitors has a low surface tension and a high wetting factor, and the stuff seems to be able to actually creep upwards against the force of gravity. Apparently it can pass right through solder joints as well. I kid you not. I have seen cases where small capacitors were hanging down from a circuit board with the foils facing upwards, and when the capacitors leaked the electrolyte somehow traveled upwards along the component leads and through the solder joints, and then ate into the solder mask and copper foils on the upwards-facing top side of the board.
Even before you'd got to the PCB I'd rushed to my box of "Sunday best" DMMs and removed and catalogued the batteries. Horrific, 18-rated. Thanks Dave, you did us all a solid there!
Poor Fluke!
Yeah, I'm noticed it too - Energizers start to leak.. I'm catched few at job in battery powered LED decorations..
Best thing for that Fluke - damaged part of PCB needs to be wash with vinegar, then IPA and some troubleshooting/ repair video will be cool.. 😉
I think, lots of viewers want to get it in auction too.
IPA = India Pale Ale. Or IsoPropyl Alcohol. Only drink the first kind.
Same here. Energizer just destroyed one of my meters, and a nice one too. It'll work on some ranges, but it's lost accuracy on others. Ate right through the solder mask and took out a few SMD resistors and capacitors.
Never seen it eat the plastic or the board before, usually just the springs. Energizer alkalines are getting pretty bad, I had some leak in like, two weeks recently. I use low self discharge NIMH where I can. I prefer 9v in multimeters, I feel like the construction of those has just a little protection.
If needed, some 9V blocks can be sat in a small thick plastic bag.
@@erikdenhouter Several layers of saran wrap works better than the little plastic bags, and are less bulky, and it will be easier to put the meter back together.
@@goodun2974 Ah, I did not know that name, you mean cling film or food wrap. Indeed, thin and strong.
@@erikdenhouter several layers of "cling wrap" will tend to wick up leakage fluids by capillary action, containing it. Saran was a brand name, like Kleenex.
@@goodun2974 👍🏻
"You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? Perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility."
Must have been a fluke 😉
But seriously anything that can erode plastic and solder mask is something you definitely don't want to be touching.
My guess is possibly small components damage or a via is corroded out.
what Only five 5 up votes it cannot be a fluke.
My Fluke operates with a 9V battery rather than tubular units and so far I have been lucky over about 30+ years.
I only use Lithium AA and AAA batteries lately. Not sure when manufacturing became so cheap but it seems every Alkaline battery is prone to leaking these days.
Instead, Lithium are at risk to getting punctured and start fires. Something heavy falls on them, could result in disaster.
My buddy's brother had an 18v cordless drill battery catch fire in his work van.
My guess, he got careless and set something heavy on it and punctured it.
Fortunately he caught it within enough time to prevent whole work van from going up in flames. But lost about $700 in work tools. Everything has a calculated risk.
@@equinoxshadow7190 An 18V cordless drill battery is a 4S pack of 18650 3.6 V rechargeable lithium cells, the high power-draw variety. That is something completely different than a 1.5 V lithium *primary* cell (non-rechargeable).
Do you have any proof of those 1.5V AA or AAA primary lithium cells being a fire hazard? I never heard of it.
I don't know what the Energizer leakage guarantee is in Australia but in the US they will repair or replace the item where the Energizer batteries leaked. FWIW Duracell has the same guarantee which I have used many times.
i use Energizer Ultimate Lithiums just assuming they won’t leak overtime in my low drain devices
Playing right into "big battery's" hand - keeping the cheap batteries crap and leaky so they can up sell you on high end batteries. Their plan is working...
@@gorak9000 lol, yeah i guess so. But I just don't wanna worry about it down the road. Like on my multimeter, those batteries could stay in there for a decade or more tbh. I do use rechargeable NiMH for stuff that drains fast. It works out a lot cheaper even though they don't last as long.
@@Evansmustard The capacity on Eneloop NiMH is actually really high and their voltage curve is way better than alkalines (you can use more of the energy at a decent voltage compared to the linear voltage drop in alkalines). If they don't last long, it's just because the devices are not optimized for NiMH usage. But it doesn't really matter because you can just reload them whenever you like and they last forever (10 years no problem, 15 years even, with daily use)
I'm surprised they don't have a seal around the battery compartment
Back when Energizer was called Eveready (Union Carbide), they had, printed on each battery, a guarantee that they would replace flashlights damaged by a leaky battery. I actually got a Maglite replaced that way once.
If you want to pursue the board repair, NorthridgeFix (on UA-cam) has all the tricks.
They still make that guarantee, at least in the U.S. However I couldn't find it anywhere on their Australian website.
I am glad by 40 year old Fluke 8020A uses a 9v battery. The battery is in it's own compartment and 9 volt's seem to die without leaking. But I still keep the battery removed and in a zipper bag when not using the meter. Wired 9 volt connectors are still available and easy to replace.
If someone has the same Fluke meter, he/she can send the values of those 2 resistors, I think that would be the fastest repair if it's only because of them.
There is a good chance of it being just the 2 metal film SMD resistors. They are almost definitely gone and considering how close they are to the MCU they can be very important for its correct startup and operation.
I have one, but its currently at work :(
As other below, we only use Lithiums for ALL our gear. Use C-cell & D-cell "adapters" to replace larger sizes, where x2 or x3 AAs are paralleled. Multiple AAA and AAAA adapters are also available.
I feel your pain Dave! Don't you just hate batteries - you'd have thought that they would have come a long way in chemistry containment by now. 😡
They did years ago. Small amounts of mercury. The modern batteries leak because there's no mercury anymore.
@@Seiskid You don’t stop innovating when the rules change.
I've found old gear with 20 year old, non-leaking dead batteries, but after having Duracells ruin gear before they've fully discharged, and leaking within a month of going dead, I thought that Energizers were the answer. It has been for a few years, but now I'm having Energizer leaks. I'd love to hear from one of the companies' battery engineers regarding what they've cheapened to make them fail so often and badly...
I stopped using "alkaline waste" some time ago. In devices that are expected to last on batteries less than let's say 2 years I use rechargeables (Eneloop). For really low drain devicess I use Energizer Lithium primaries (quite expensive but when they last in device 5 years it really does not matter) Never had any leak since I ditched those alkalines.
I'm pretty paranoid about alkaline leakage at this point so all of my electronics use either Energizer Ultimate Lithium primaries or Eneloop NiMH rechargeables. I just recently bought a bunch of AA to D and AAA to C converters as well to replace my C and D alkaline batteries with Eneloops.
A bit expensive at the start to convert over, but cheaper than replacing expensive gear in the long run!
who stores highly valuable kit with the batteries still in? No disrespect Davo, but this one is on you. You know better after decades in the electronics industry. lol
My meters all use 9v batteries
Everyone. Who takes the all the batteries out of their multimeters at the end of each day. No one.
@@infernaldaedra funny, cheers :-)
@@Seiskid there's longterm storage reasons tho? So, before storage?
Thanks, made me look at the batteries in my multimeter and sure enough, one of them just started leaking! Luckily hasn't reached the contacts yet.
Poor Fluke, but thank you Dave. I had identical batteries (expiration date 12-2024) in an identical multimeter (also has a protective film ;-) - I use it as rarely as you). They still had 1.51V, but one of them had very slight signs of leakage at the negative pole.
Hey mate. Had the same issue with a an IR Thermometer, Fluke of course. The battery leaking fluid ate the plastic casing. The thermometer still working though, saved just in time. I could not believe. The battery compartment should be sealed off - that is the perfect single point failure example.
To fix traces you take very thin single strand copper wire without any covering and run it along the trace. Soldering it at the beginning and the end. Do it for all of them and then cover them in either super glue or better yet conformal coating
If you have boxes of multimeters laying around,
maybe consider auction (or giving) them away to
someone who needs them more.
And it's environmentally friendly too...
First thing I was taught as a child, regarding batteries, was to remove them if they were not in daily use.
Good rule of thumb.
I wish I could stick to that rule, we all forget and unless we are lucky will pay the price !
Same as the Seaward PAT I bought to test gear for a bi-annual event. 2 years between uses was too much. Good lesson for removing batteries on everything.
That and store anything with a Li Ion battery in a fire-tolerant area, not mixed in with other flammable things.
Well that's certainly disappointing and concerning regarding Energizers. I've never had any leaking issues from them so I was very surprised at this video. I've checked my Multimeters and only one had a couple of Energizer cells. On first glance they looked fine but checking closer one definitely had droplets on the negative terminal as seen under magnification, but no corrosion yet. Caught just in time I'd say. These cells were made in Singapore and have an expiry date of 12/2026! I've now put in some Lithiums as NiMh made the display way too dim. I guess that I'll just be getting Lithium from now on for this sort of usage.
That's the way to go: either Eneloop NiMH or Lithium primary cells. The Eneloop will work and make sense in a lot of devices, and where they don't: lithium.
When I had stuff damaged by Duraleaks, I sent them email with pics of the damage, and the batteries. They told me to go find a replacement device, and they cut me a check for it. You might see if NeverReady has the same policy and warranty.
This is the reason why I use only nimh to replace AAA and AA alkaleaks. I use those cells to replace C/D cells with adapters. (3 AA to one D) and devices where I can't use nimhs (lower voltage alarm or if rechargeable has too low capacity, typically 9V nimh has too small capacity.) then I use lithium batterys.
I have not seen solder mask come off like that. I think the pressure and temperature affects the battery leakage. Again way more often Duracell. Once I get everything cleaned up I usually go over any traces with some solder and now I would be inclined to put some nail polish over.
I wonder if the pressure of the case on the board caused it to wink in between and affect the masking more?
In some cases I suspect low level current drain might have an effect on the leaking.
In Australia Energizer will replace damaged gear if damaged from their cells. Give them a call, they will want to know the date and batch info (you will need to send photos).
I just cleaned up an old hiking GPS that had some leaked rayovacs. It dissolved some of the plastic so the perfectly fine metal bridge between the 2 batts had nothing to hold it in place anymore. It still works but now when I change batteries I'll have to be careful not to lose the metal bridge that is just sitting in the end of the compartment now.
Best thing I found to clean up the battery corrosion is the liquid rust converters that have phosphoric acid in them. Takes it right off. Boeshield Rust Free, Krud Kutter rust converter, the old Jasco Prep and Prime. All of them have a weak solution of phosphoric acid. Works better than vinegar ...
This is why you need to treat the battery compartment as an outdoor environment in device design. The entire PCB should be shielded from the chemicals that can leak from a battery, the same way it is protected from external influences.
Sorry to see you having the leaky alkaline headaches, I've since migrated to 'Lithium' non-rechargeable cells and 9 volt batts for all my test equipment and have never had a leakage issue.
Well worth the extra cost of not having to replace/repair test equipment...
I use my meters too much for the batteries to have time to leak. They go dead way before that due to the hours I put on them. And I NEVER leave a known-dead battery in anything, even for a day.
Three questions:
1) why is the battery compartment not sealed against battery leaks? It can't be difficult to isolate the battery compartment to stop battery chemicals from accessing the product PCB.
2) what os the plastic case made of, is it makes with a chemical symbol?
3) Why is the case plastic not selected to be impervious to battery chemicals? Polypropylene and high density polyethylene is extremely resistant to corrosive chemicals.
The other day I found someone forgot to take the batteries out of my TI-83, and of course they leaked which killed it. AGAIN! That's Twice now! 🤬🤬 I was thinking for the next one I might try dip coating the batteries with conformal coating, then scrape off just enough on each end to make contact. I really don't want the hassle doing that every battery change so I might just try painting the coating inside the battery compartment instead. Just not sure if it would cause battery fit issues, but either way, I can't keep buying new TI's every time.
Use lithium primary batteries, they are expensive, but will last forever in a calculator. They usually have a 10 year expiry period, I have never seen one leaking. I've seen videos of lithium primary backup batteries leaking in old Apple computers, now that's insane. They destroy everything beyond repair very quickly. So be aware to replace the lithium AA cells before the expiry date. Just in case...
@@mrnmrn1 The expiry date on the Energizer Lithium AA and AAA is 20 years, the 9V are 10 years. These are usually recommended for critical equipment like smoke detectors.
They also have a significantly higher capacity than alkaline cells, so they're not that expensive in comparison.
When I first started using alkaline batteries the great thing was that they didn't leak unlike the cheaper zinc carbon batteries. I think the leaking problem came about due to a change of chemistry to "environmentally friendly" mercury free .
Send it to My Mate Vince or StezStix Fix.
I've had Rayovac batteries leak but mostly when they were used up. They make fizzing sounds in the bin. I've never had the single use lithium AAs leak and they last a very long time.
I use Evolta in my 289 which made in Japan and unleak warranty
I tend to only use the Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries in my meters and other things which only see a battery change once every few years. Have never had a leak. I know they have been tested to last well over 20 years.
I wouldn't mind giving this a go to try and repair it. If you still have it and you're serious about selling it I'd definitely buy it from you just for a challenge 😉
All batteries leak, when alkaline battery gets below 10% the polarity reverses and they start to leak. Had problems with duracell quality, they don't last as long as they should. When you replace hundreds of batteries that's a problem.