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My "Pound of Flesh" as it were, and I have done this: "Alright, well since I spent the previous week preparing for your other plans; I am going to need a week to prepare for your change of plans. No session today guys.... unless, you want to stick with your original plans..."
as he discussed in the video, it's pretty jerky and calls out your lack of good DM capabilities. It would discourage creativity and sense of ownership of the players. At least my pound of flesh on it.
@@jujujohnson01 I would argue that telling the DM you want to go into the Dungeon of Dread next week, knowing he's going to spend the week preparing it, and then showing up to the session and without warning saying, "We want to go to the Crystal Palace instead," is MUCH more of a jerky thing to do, and calls out their lack of good player capabilities. What you're basically doing here is saying Charlie Brown needs to be a better player when he falls down after Lucy pulls the ball out from under his foot. She's not supposed to do that. Neither are players supposed to say, at the end of a session, "We want to go here!" and then, at the start of the next, without warning the DM, "Psych! We fooled ya! We want to go THERE instead!"
Reskins aren't really always an option, mainly because your map ends up being invalid. It's hard to necessarily turn a mazy labyrinth or cave into a palace. And a lot of times reskinning the monsters don't make sense unless they're nothing but totally bland brute monsters with no special abilities.
Having a good relationship with your players in which you respect each other and understand the unique challenges that each other face in the game is the absolute most powerful X Factor in solving almost every D&D problem ever, and I'm glad you mentioned that
My players said they wanted to search the obviously corrupt noble’s house for evidence of corruption. I planned a whole heist adventure with guard patrols and 3 pieces of evidence that aren’t very incriminating on their own, but become very damning when you look at all 3. The players broke into one room, found one piece of vague evidence, and then left immediately.
Gotta love when that happens, haha. In this case, you turn up the pressure with an unexpected complication that makes staying *inside* the house a little while longer more attractive. They can still try to scram with the single evidence, but it would result in fighting an incredibly strong creature or maybe incriminating themselves in whatever scandal they're trying to solve in the first place. Hindsight and all, I know. Hopefully the next time this happens it goes a bit closer to plan.
They told me they were going to join the orcs in their invasion. I prepared a whole war session. They tell me they've changed their mind at minute one. I tell them oh okay, well thats what I prepped so see you guys next week. They never changed their mind on me again
There is a social contract here, and the players are violating it in the example. 4:00 "It's much better to allow your players to choose." YOU DID THAT ALREADY. Last week. You asked them to choose and they said, "We want to go to the dungeon of dread." They made their choice. Asking them to STICK TO IT is not robbing them of choice. It's asking them to stay with their original choice. If they really don't want to do the Dungeon of Dread tonight -- OK. Then let's play a board game or something, because BASED ON YOUR CHOICE LAST WEEK, that is what I prepared. Players get to make choices, yes. But what you don't get to do is whimsically change your mind AFTER the GM has prepared what YOU CHOSE. I would argue that improv'ing and going along with the new choice is only enabling the bad player behavior that this example is describing here. They'll just keep doing it. Finally, "You have to improvise stuff anyway" is a red herring here. This is not about improv. It's about the players telling you "We want to do X, go ahead and prep it." And then next week saying, "SUCKAH! We're doing Z instead!" GMs should not put up with this kind of behavior.
If my players change their mind, I'd end the session and have a heart to heart. Improv is alright but if it goes completely the other direction, I'm not ok with that. It's a respect issue for me. I respect my players enough to say what they are going to do, I prep for the week, and we play. If the expectation wasn't set, then it's my responsibility to adapt accordingly.
Yeah I feel it's a big violation of the social contract for players to change their minds after you've prepped. They had time to make a choice, they made the choice. Now they have to live with it.
Matt Colville did a video on railroading vs open world games and he told a story where he had done a bunch of prep work, and basically had this happen while he was really busy at work. At the very start of a session, one of his players insisted that the party should just leave and go off onto a part of the map that he hadn't prepared at all. So he told them they could do that, but that would be the end up the session for the day, and since he was really busy at work and didn't have any time to prep for that area, then they wouldn't be playing for at least another three weeks. They quickly changed their minds lol
Once you have an adventure planned, just tell the players that's the adventure you're playing. I know people will scream "RAILROAD!!" but that's not really railroading. It's simply playing the adventure a DM has prepped. Players can still make their own decisions within the adventure being played. The DM isn't restricting their agency within that current adventure. Just play what you've prepped. If players don't want to play, let them DM
@@jujujohnson01 oh yea!! Our last session was like this. I had a very basic outline planned but the small bits I just made up on the spot. I was honestly proud of myself
I typically have plenty in mind for travel encounters and also I have two books of puzzles I can throw in on a moment's notice for these occasions. Improving an NPC social interaction is also a strength of mine. Putting them all together in some order usually gets me through a session gone sideways lol. You brought up some things I hadn't thought of and I am taking notes. I do need to expand my set of maps for online play though to accommodate unexpected divergences however. I have a folder started with some generic stuff like forest trails, ruins etc.
Most of the time I'm listening to my players debate and talk about the challenge in front of them and it helps me a lot to improvise. Players usually have crazy ideas I haven't thought of and I'm using their ideas.
I used to prep extensively before, and then once my players decided to do a different thing than what they originally planned between sessions. I ended up running an almost entirely improvised session (tying it into the main plot still) and my players had an awesome time, saying it was one of my best sessions. I still kept doing extensive prep between sessions, and after a few more improvised sessions due to players doing the unexpected, one of my players (one of whom had started the game group with me) came up to me and said, "So the rest of us have been talking, and we realised we can tell the difference between sessions you've prepped and the ones you haven't." I was going bonkers because I thought I'd been doing a terrible job, when he continued and said, "We've been having much more fun with your improvised sessions than your planned ones, so I've been asked to tell you to stop prepping so hard. Your improvisations are much more interesting." Ever since then, I've prepped the world setting, ideas for NPCs with goals and such that the party can come across, a rough plot outline, and then let them do whatever they want and just improv the heck out of a session. In between sessions, my prep just consists of writing down what they've done and how it might affect NPC goals, double-checking contested rules, and finding cool maps and music to use.
This is why preparation for more than just "next week's session" is important. If you have the basics of the castle adventure prepped then running it and improving the details wouldn't be too difficult.
Last time this happened to me, I jumped the players with bounty hunters sent by the bad guy in one of their backstories. It took a couple of hours to play through which gave me enough time to make up the basis of the exploration they wanted to do. So keeping a couple of "random" encounters up my sleeve.
There are so many great points on this video - the first is the "Standard 5 Room Dungeon Contruction" - I've never heard of it by name - I mean as a DM I know the concept and have used it but I didn't realize this was a thing that was a part of the process. Brillian. Next, what made me really pay attention to this video is the line: Just try to survive - AND this is the advice for the DM and not his players - and I love it because it's usually the opposite. I loved my past players - but damn they stretched me so many times. The last thing I like is your advice on a non-random random encounter table. Mainly because I don't use pre-made random encounter tables either - I have encounters prepared that I can drop randomly if needed and it can still advance the game. So yes you can make your random encounters into encounters random. Now before you think I'm going to praise heavy: Hey Luke you're a Looooooooooooooser - mainly because I don't see a cat or hear any references to bacon on this video.
I'm planning a homebrew campaign based in and around the sea, where going from point A to point B is usually aboard a ship. I could have a stall bag with "A dragon turtle says hi" or "A brass dragon won't stop dropping the anchor to have a chat with you" or "You are sucked in to a storm and the sails are broken" or "There is conflict among the crew and captain" etc etc etc. I think I'll be fine.
I keep one or two "you fell into a cavern" or "you got sucked into a vortex" side quests in pocket when this happens, and I spring them in transit. I just use pre-built side quests from Lair magazine and the like. Easy and no stress.
One easy way to buy yourself planning time is to have a puzzle ready they can work on without your involvement. On the way to whatever, they’re ambushed by a few bandits, on whom they find a note encoded with a simple cipher, maybe just a plain old monoalphabetic substitution cipher made by using some weird glyph font. A good INT roll gets them started with a hint (“One of the bandits called the leader ‘Drax’ - could that be the first word?”) but otherwise they’ve got to do it by hand. Voila, you have 15-20 minutes to plan what they find at their destination while they decode some backstory. And if you don’t overuse it, the group usually has a lot of fun doing it.
There is a difference between player agency and player accountability. A good game requires that the players have agency or the ability to choose their actions, but it also requires accountability to those choices. At some point, the players can no longer be allowed to change their mind once having made a decision. Like rolling to hit a monster then seeing that it is a miss and wanting to change their action to something other than an attack. I wouldn't allow them to change their mind at that point, I would hold them accountable to the choice they made. In the example given here, the players were able to make a choice. This isn't a question of railroading your players. It is a question of accountability and how far into the choice a DM will allow the players to change their mind. There is no right or wrong answer, just like every thing in RPGs, but there is a point that the players need to be held to the decisions that they are making. I personally would hold them to the choice they made. It isn't reasonable to expect me, as the DM, to double or triple my work because the players do not want accountability for their choices. RPGs need to be a balance and the work load is already very heavily skewed onto the DM. I think it is completely reasonable to limit the addition of DM work load.
I agree, If they had the choice of walking to the Dragon Caves or the Spooky Prison, they got to stick with their choices. You cant take back say a punch to a cops face.
I just effortlessly switch into improv mode and come up with a bizarre and entertaining NPC for them to have a long conversation with. Once they start traveling, I throw a couple pre-generated encounters at them and next thing you know it’s “see you next session” time. Ending early or not having the game is never ever an option.
Thanks for making this vid man. This issue regarding what to do when my players go off the trail they put me on is really helpful. I love all the videos that the DM Lair makes, and glad to see your stuff pop up in my feed!
1:10 "How do you deal with such treachery ?" I invested in a morgenstern. It's been pretty great since I used it once. You'll be remembered for you sacrifice Sam.
This is one of your best videos. Well done! I do try to keep a few 5-room dungeons handy to "kill" a session, but also, in a pinch, I'm not above calling for a 30-minute break while I emergency prep. Like you said, it's way better than not playing at all.
#1) I am a serial over preparer and have long since been acclimated to my players going off the path completely. So if my players changed their minds at the start of a new session, i probably could run with that, it just wouldn't be as clean. #2) With all my over-prepared ness, I can tackle improv pretty well. But it did take me years to get the confidence to manage it. I think this is something that comes with experience. Aside, I love Theater of the Mind #3) Stalling is less of an issue when you address the elephant in the room off the bat. My group at least is pretty lenient in that regard. But putting any kind of "major decision" in front of the party is a pretty easy way to buy time without them realizing it. And suggesting a meal break is also a great way to buy time and recharge.
Some of my favorite sessions have been when the players "beat the DM" and I have to improvise my butt off. They tend to be the most fun, hilarious sessions as I fumble challenge ratings occasionally and what I thought would be a challenge turns out to be a cakewalk.
I had a random encounter option from a prior session that I pulled out to stall to the end when the party made a choice in game I didn’t expect. Then the small village they arrived at only spoke the local language, hardly any common, while the one guy who did speak it and the wizard with Comprehend Languages were busy elsewhere harvesting the creature they just killed.
You can always switch it up with a one shot in a system you wanted to play before, like Steve Jackson’s Toon. Or run them through tomb of horrors with the premade characters and don’t pull punches.
I usually end up having to improv stuff about every 3 or 4 sessions. The downside is that I have to scramble to slap together a VTT map and pull in stuff from my library of baddies - the upside is that because of the stuff that I *did* prep, I now have build up a whole library of baddies and set encounters: I didn't set out to build a sandbox world, but now I have one.
My current campaign setting is on a large continent. One of the features is a city that fell into ruin over a millennia before, being divided by three factions and the people there becoming undead. There are three bosses. Naturally, one of the players decided the party should cleanse the city, and talked the others into it. Completely unexpected. I thought, "Oooh haunted city for flavour." I put a major quest item on the outskirts, just to add texture and a real sense of danger (especially for the meta in the experienced players who hear the words "banshee," "ghost," and "lich"). But the real crusader of the group (a Druid/Lion of Talisid) saw cleansing the city as a way to make the world a better place, so once the initial campaign was completed and the party kept going, the city became the capstone adventure. (The party is currently lvl 19, Pathfinder Core/3.x mashup homebrew.) My stalling session turned into a quest for knowledge and aide. The party, as large as it is (5 chars and an animal companion), cannot storm a city by itself! So off it goes to convince some of the people of the same race to retake the city, which they don't want to do for shame and pain. Some side-quests turned into urgent requests, and I put MacGuffins into the side-quests that tied back to the city and the nefarious actions there. The party petitioned city-states for assistance with storming the city. I added quests to obtain aide, and knowledge about what to expect. And now, the party has redeemed two of the undead faction leaders (banshee and ghost) and is storming the lich's labyrinth. Meanwhile, one of the PCs is being followed by a ghost seeking to possess him. (The ghost is distantly related to the PC's wife, and is seeking vengeance on his own family by getting to her. Unfortunately, it's my most meta-player, and while she digs my lore, she doesn't get into playing my races as written. Instead, she sees cat people as an opportunity to anthropomorphize her pets. Consequently, anything bad happening to her chars is like me kicking her cats. Getting her to play up to being possessed will be an uphill struggle--nearly as monumental a task as getting her to play a different face in the next campaign. And since neither of her chars has any Prot vs Evil or Extended Prot vs Evil prepared, that possession is going to happen.) By the by, if your erase maps aren't erasing all that well, try purchasing a clear vinyl tablecloth to put over it and some chalkboard chalk markers. I recently did this, and it's working well! Plus, I can pre-draw that puppy and tuck it away leaving the grid clear for in-between sessions.
All the players I've run games for love shopping. Especially magic item shopping. Come up with a list of weird and sometimes useless items and roll on the list to see what the shopkeeper has (common items in XGtE is a good start.) You can come up with a weird/mysterious shopkeeper that doesn't tell the whole truth and is clearly trying to scam the players. That should kill 1 to 5 hours. I had a whole adventure planned one time and my players just wanted to go shopping. some personal favorite useless magic items: Dwarven soup spoon - Just a wooden stick, the identify spell does not work on it. When placed in a liquid in a bowl or similar container the wooden stick stirs the liquid. Ring of troll detection - Has no effect (DM makes a wide grin every time they bring it up)
Personally, I'm a big fan of having at least 2 adventures always in my bag. One is the one the players wanted to go on. The other one is not a full adventure but "travel and a twist". In effect that is just the way to the new target, the group is heading for, with a nice encounter AND a small side quest. I always make sure that the travel part offers me one of the options to choose from, social or combat, and for the side quest. For I always try to make this part not so combat-heavy but more skills-related or some demanding puzzle... Basically, so that the demand for resources is not high, they are not likely to be able to "refill" before the "alternate Adventure" starts the next session (for D&D, if you play with those short/Long Rest rules you will have less problems with exhausted and depleted characters). Over time this has resulted in a few different "travel and a twist" adventures I have in stock, I keep them in my "RPG anywhere, whenever and immediately bag". And when it comes to meeting friends who are players, never leave home without it!
One of my favorite things is when my players go "off the rails" even if its against what they said they would do the last session. That means they are thinking of the game outside of playtime and they are trying to engage my world. Even if I'm improvising 100% of my session multiple sessions in a row it brings me so much joy to know my players are that interested in my world they actually want to explore it.
100 percent. I don't even ask them what they are going to do next session. I know my world, I have tons of triggers to set off encounters all over my map and story. The improve is always the most organic and make the best sessions
@@kevinmurphy667 Total improv is great but I will say I also love being able to plan out specific things too. If my players don't take them then that is totally fine but having a specific event waiting for one of my PCs if they end up doing XYZ. But either way my goal is for my players to be enjoying themselves
This happened to me. I told my players this: "alright, if you want to do the thing you are telling me you want now rather than last time, we can but i will either have to do it off the cuff or we skip this week and play next week so i cam prepare. Or if you want we can do as you said you wajted last time." Worked wonders
For me, it depends. For years, we had a sandbox-style game, and I am very comfortable improvising. When they go into an unexpected direction, I stall for a few minutes to sketch a few ideas and just use them. When I feel that I cannot improvise something nice, I tell them “You told me X, so I prepared for X, you may go do Y, but expect it to be less structured and potentially more dangerous than expected”. My group wants a “real concurrent” world, so they actually sometimes go with the second option if they think that genuinely is the better choice. But that only works because of our “play culture” and me already not doing much preparation. At least not much specific prep, I do quite extensive world building, but that is reusable.
i have a folder of modular encounters, some premade no prop mods too. ill mix a few together changing the details here and there, i turn these sessions into exploration sessions and save the story i made for them for another location... i have learned to be more fluid in my DMing cause of this issue.
I'm blessed with the ability to improvise but also the capacity to maximize the value of prep ( really good at doing 1 hour of work and have it stretch across 3 sessions that are each 4 hours long ). Also i spent decades studying psychology , philosophy & etc.
I have never personally had this issue. I always create 2 scenarios one where they do what is plan or 2 they don't. If they don't they have to actually travel to whatever place the choose fighting mobs or what not. Which is already laid out depending the region I simply choose the level of monsters they fight upon the way. From the weakest to maybe the regional apex. Always plan out your maps with monsters included. It will stop a lot of hassle while allowing the players to feel like it's a real world
Ah man.. Winging it can lead to the best stories. I recall one session, roughly 20 years ago, and the party I was DM-ing for were tracking some drow into the underdark. Anyway, they head into this cave system and while still tracking the drow they come upon this underground lake. Now I had put some moored boats in the description, alongside the trail the drow tracks at this lake. So instead of keep tracking the drow, the players are totally mesmerized by the boats and decide to use one of the boats to go exploring. I did not prep for this. So they get into the boat and push off. Meanwhile I am scribbling behind my screen, trying to at least piece a map together, 'where does this lake go, probably into an underground river somewhere, ok, I got this..'. So the players mess around in the boat and briefly entertain the thought of picking up the landbased track of the drow again. Briefly, as one conjures up the idea that there may have been more boats and they might find the drow somewhere on the water. So they head off onto the lake. Me: * scribble scribble more scribble * "Sure, go on..". I decide to disuade them a little by telling them they end up in a narrow sidecave and they can hear rushing water. They ignore this completely and press on. I emphasize that this sounds like rushing water. They push on and head out of the narrow cave stream into a clearly strong current underground river. I ask for strength checks (or the equivalent of) to see if they can still steer the boat. Turns out they can't and are now rushing for a waterfall. Mage casts levitate in order to save party, but momentum still moves the boat. Party ends up going over the waterfall floating towards back end of a larger cave as the opposite cave wall closes with some speed. They manage to use quarterstaffs and a spear to break their momentum. SO at this point I'm thinking "They'll head back now, surely".. Nope.. They lower the boat. Time for my last resort then, I got an idea. They land hundreds of feet down in a deep lake, and decide to make landfall on the only shore there. They look for signs of drow. No drow. A group of Umberhulks appear to the party of level 4 adventurers and eat the fighter. Party runs carrying parts of said fighter in a bucket, hoping to res him later, and levitate their boat the F out of there. Suffice to say this taught my players to be WAY MORE CAREFUL. None of it was planned ahead of time on my side of the screen, it was funny, albeit in a morbid way, and everyone STILL remembers, and not just because I tell this tale at birthday parties... 😎
I never plan encounters based on what my players want. I ask them what does their characters want and add elements of that to some of the encounters that I built and have an encounters here and there dedicated for payoffs. Normally my encounters are loose, I plan the initial scene, I create 3 to 4 versions of encounters (a mix of npc, riddle and monsters) and 2 boss battles “. Then I drop in the way of my players as they make decisions.
Idk about "worst nightmare" I have a ton of fun improving in sessions. Personally, I think, the best teacher is experience. Get a few friends, and invite them over for a improv 1 shot. Come up with a framework inside you're head, and go. Back when I was a teen, we'd just decide to play a game, randomly on the spot, so we'd just go. Do a role down the line 3d6 take what you get and see what kind on build you can make work. Makes character creation a bit quicker due to limiting choices... kinda... depends on who you're playing with.
Thankfully my group does a good job of sticking with what they planned on doing the previous session. However, their point of engagement on the adventure almost always requires me to improvise. I try to at least to a rough layout in my head of a few ways they could attempt to accomplish the mission at hand and they almost always try something I wasn't planning on.
Improve is the “ spice of life “. I find it easier to have a beginning and an end point and leave everything else to be left to chance. Plotting out everything can not only frustrate you as a DM but can make your players feel boxed in. Also things the players do that you don’t plan for can give you fuel for future scenarios.
Suddenly drop in a crashing object from space somewhere close by, could be a ship, a meteorite, body part of an ancient dead god, the egg of a powerful monster from another game system, an escape pod, etc., etc. This type of thing can give you some time to get your thoughts reordered while your players head out to investigate, and if they decide not to you can always have their neglect of the situation come down to some heavy consequences. Just one of several different strategies you can use in situations like these. =^_^=
I always run my games by setting up available options towards the end. When the session is over, they tell me their next move. They are usually motivated enough to stick to their choice since its what all players agreed on and they have their stake in the choices they make
When my players go off the rails, I have a website to generate dungeon maps, a book of traps and puzzles, and a book of quests and ideas. While they're traveling, I'll get them in an encounter of some sort; when they finish, I call for a break and hodgepodge a dungeon.
I favor the leveling route if the players Zig instead of Zag so hard I know I won't provide a quality game for their time. I also make them lock in their decision for next week's game plan & open the session with them arriving where they said they wanted to go last week. If they still wanna Zig, we'll pick this up next week & play Smash Bros in the meantime.
My game is set in the homebrew world my mom created 30 years ago and I run all my games in now. I was running two campaigns and one of them fizzled out, but I let the plot points they were following keep progressing. My other game kept going and one of my players keeps a really detailed spreadsheet of all the things the party want to do. They ended up running into some of the same areas the previous party had been and picked up on a plot point from that previous game. I had the things all prepped for the ones they had on their spreadsheet and i DID have the stuff set up for the location, but it was not fully prepped or uploaded to my VTT for this group. I just leveled with them since it was not part of what they originally planned it was not uploaded and fully prepped, if they wanted to go that way it was fine but I would need to cut the session short and I would have everything ready on the next session (mind you we were already mid way through the session at this point). They ended up deciding to follow up on that clue after the quest they were working on, and it gave me time to get it ready. and in doing so set them on a journey that lead to a totally different campaign ending than was planned. I was not planning to go into 3rd OR 4th tier play for this group but .. here we are.
I try to always have the Thing They Planned To Do and a Fancy Side Thing prepped, because I know my players. They will always go off the beaten path if reminded that's an option. Hell, one table spent a full 5 hours session of Wild Beyond the Witchlight repairing a hot air balloon so they didn't have to walk through the swamp. Why did it take that long? Because they decided to investigate a tower instead of the cavern they had decided to go to the previous session. Granted, I then spent a silly amount of time coming up with aerial encounters instead of being able to use the pre-prepped ones in the adventure module.
thankfully i've done a lot of acting and drama club because my players are seasoned players and i'm a first time DM running a totally homebrew campaign and they a throwing me for a loop. I will say though, it is some of the most fun i've had playing dnd. I'm lucky I made a big world and mapped out the whole thing so there's a lot to work of of
this happened to me recently players decoded to surrender a maguffin to the entity that wanted and i could not think of reasonable reason that would be refused so chunk of planned time was Discarded and i didn't have the next thing ready yet luckily thay had a major character moment that felt like a good note to end on
Hold on that 5 steps for dungeon rooms thing was huge news to me. Can you make a video expanding on that, or do you have one already? Unsure what trick/set back would be good to use. As always, your videos are insanely helpful
What I do? More or less the same: - Tell the players it's ok to change their minds... but I haven't prepped this stuff, so don't blame me if today's game won't be as enjoyable as usual. - Throw in a puzzle/point of interest. I like to use a "magic" machine, with a few buttons and levers. Players usually like to fiddle with it, if it doesn't really look like it will harm them. It's quite easy to make stuff up for a "magic" machine since it can do anything and it doesn't really need to make much sense. Buuut it soaks up a lot of game time (30 min easily), and this game time is usually not that intense on the DM so I can prep the rest in that time ;-). - A combat encounter or a "distracted" quircky NPC can also work, but is a bit more more work/improv on the DM. A "chain" of NPC's pointing from one guy to the other often stretches the game as well without much work - And yeah, let them talk and be indecisive
Improvisation is an important skill, but can be challenging to have to do a whole session of it, especially if it happens regularly. I think groups should reward their DMs with Bacon!
Well, so far I haven't had my players go "of script" yet. However that might be, because I might have over preped to an obscene extend AND they are kind enough to actually do one of their several quests, instead of something completely different. Half of them are vereran rollplayers and dungeon masters, who are aware of the risks of leaving the track and they are also aware, that I technically run a module.,,or rather a couple combined to one. Most of your advice is very handy and useful for me, except the stalling part. There is no way I can stall for 8 hours, but I can delay them for long enough to come up with something on the fly, if I have to, I guess. I would still recommend "listening to your players talking" with one ear, at least, since that can give you great inspiration of "how to twist things into shape"
i could picture it coming outta jim carrie's mouth but not which movie. between ace venture (most probable) and maybe Liar Liar I love ALL the DM's Lair videos (if you know, you know)
One of the most natural stall tactics I have is to wait for my players to start RPing amongst themselves and figure out what I need to while they're working things out in character.
Depends on my mood. Most times I'll just roll with it and improv it. The players figure out what happened when I'm drawing the map by hand using the vtt's rather primitive drawing tools. If I'm in a bad mood, I'll be like, Oh gosh darn it, you level 1 PCs, Tiamat is guarding the king's palace. TPK! Yey! Now lets roll up some new characters and next week you'll do the Dungeon of Dread like you said you would, right?
My top DM fear: "DM, my 2nd cousin is having a birthday party today, so I'll have to skip. But I'll definitely be there next week" Other players: "We really need everyone today for the big fight and don't feel like playing a one shot, so let's skip" Skips to next week: "I'm feeling sick, so I'll need to skip today...." Yada yada yada, no DnD and can't run another group in that time slot because maybe THIS might be the week. i.e. The Scheduling Cycle of Doom
I have had this rarely happen. We have a Discord channel and we chat in between sessions. A week to a few days I post a reminder and I usually give a 1 or 2 sentence recap of what was planned next session I.e. **NEXT SESSION** 2/10/24 Noon Return to Waterdeep after a tenday rest at our new home. Or.. *Ettrian Returns Home* Since I started this, everyone knows what is being planned, and if they did want to do something different, it would come up in Discord. Then, I would have a few days to change up.
My players don't do this mostly because it's generally improvised. I have about a dozen different scenarios ready to go that are adjacent to the main campaign so with a few key points and general NPC notes, we're off and running.
I have this one player in a bunch of my games that I've known for quite a while, he has this thing where, every time he's had a bad day at work, he will do his darndest to derail games that he's a part of. It doesn't matter how much I ask, or plead, or call him out, if he's had a bad day, he WILL take it out on the game. The worst part of all this is, when he's NOT being a douchebag, he's the best player I've ever met, he helps other, newer players, he helps me with rule confusions, he goes out of his way to encourage other people to take part, he polices the table for metagaming or phones or tangents that's gone too far when I'm too busy with something else, and is just an all-round sweetheart. But EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. He has had a bad customer or coworker incident, the game suffers for it. He's been unemployed for a while now so this haven't been an issue lately, but since he's hunting for jobs I'm dreading the day when this would become a problem again. I don't want to kick him from my games because of how helpful he is and how much fun it is to play when he's involved, but his tendency to take his frustrations out on my game is on the verge of killing my interest in continuing to play D&D... Luke (or anyone else reading this), help?
I'm lucky to have players who respect the work I put into the game. We already all agree they have to go on the main quest when we start a campaign, along with their personal quests. But if they want to go do something I haven't prepared for yet, depending I'll adapt and improve it or be honest with them that the area isn't ready yet and they can usually willingly change their direction and no one is bummed.
I am running a pure wilderness exploration adventure. the characters are helping establish a trade town/port. as GM, I understand the region, but nothing specific is planned. I have encounter concepts, but nothing fleshed out. while this is more commonly known as improv, I consider this, the adventure of flowing water. at times is slow and smooth and other times it's fast with rapids and hazards. additionally, throwing in 'red herrings' and clues that will never become something, adds to the immersion. not everything you put into the game needs to be useful.
2 things: a lot of time, I let my players talk before we start, between 5 and 15 minutes. Just let them ramble on for as long as you need, or until you have at least some idea planned out (don't go overboard). Also, just level with them. Say, "Hey, I didn't plan for this. If you want to do this, give me like 20 minutes (upwards of an hour, depending on how long you play) to reprep." If you're all friends, you should be good with watching videos together, telling stories, or playing some short game for a bit before you hop back in.
My players are very chaotic when making decisions so I always spend 45 min after sessions to plan 3-4 different maps and scenarios I know they might choose to do next session.
There is the option to not end the session on a decision. if they say they want to go to the Dungeon of Dread, just continue the session for 5-10 more minutes to roleplay the prep the party does and the journey to the dungeon. Then end the session when the party arrive just in front of the dungeon entrance. No turning back after that point.
I would simply have NOT told the PCs about the dragon eggs hidden away in the kings castle, and instead have the dragon dispense that information upon rescue.
Just happened to me to have to improvise an entire session because some of the players cancelled last minute and it didn't feel right to do play through the big events I had prepared without them. I explained the situation to the players present and I think they were okay just trying to figure out the session as we went on, and in the end it was not the best session but it turned out fine.
Ok, guys. We aren't doing the Dungeon of Dread after all, we are going to the Woodchipper of Death. Buckle up buttercup, you may want to keep the PG handy, on the char gen section.
6:28 Ngl, been trying to adjust to my bros and girl deliberate de-railing for laughs horseshit for some two years or so. Despite their laughter, enjoyment, and willingness to return for more when they’re taking it seriously, I still feel like my improv comes up short. Definitely got better at writing campaigns around their behavior though
I been doing this for 10+ years plan always plan for your players to forget, have a random epiphany, or just not want to do the thing for a number of reasons. I think every GM should just practice improvising a session once and a while. It may be rough bit I found a group that loves randomness. (I have a story, it just keeps going on in the background while they figure out their group synergy). I threw a black dragon wyrmling at them at level 1. It was a social encounter but the bastards actually thought they could fight the damn thing. They didn't even kill single kobold so I had the dragon curse one of them but let them live so they could get more gold for him to steal. As GM it's your job not to kill your players but to challenge them. If they lose try not to kill them unless that's just how that's gonna go. Capture is a fun adventure too.
Nah, if my group tried this, they'd simply be told "no". If they want to do something completely different than they've told me previously, then sorry no game tonight as there simply isn't anything planned. If they're going to disrespect my time spent preparing QUITE so badly, I'm going to disrespect their time of coming together.
On an extreme level I agree. Most of the time one can expect some reasonable variation though. A fairly normal "change my mind" situation is if the party meets an obstacle that proves easier/harder than they expected. They might decide to change their approach to whatever they were planning on the spot. Too easy? "We can afford to get there earlier". Too hard? "We might have to fall back".
@@goncalocarneiro3043 changing method of approach to a specific thing is no problem, I just set up situations and then deal with how the players approach it when they get to it. Going to an entirely different location than planned though? Nope, not happening.
@@RequiemWraith I could also see that happening, but it would have to be "your fault". As in, for example, say a party comes across a clue to something they value. Doesn't matter what, but let's say it's a document that says X person (which the party loves/hates) was sent to Y place two days ago. Maybe the party will drop what they were doing and rush to get there instead of finishing whatever they were doing. I think that situation is reasonable.
@@RequiemWraith Indeed, so, as I said, it would have to be "your fault". My example was that there was a document which is a super overt way to change circumstances. Still, I feel like a DM could accidentally create a "clue" without noticing. Like, describe something in a way that unintentionally reminds a player of something, like a conspiracy theory of theirs and they decide to pay attention to that red herring. Something like "oh my gorsh, this looks like the symbol of X and Y, so this means this place/these guys are related to this faction which in turn means blah blah". Something like this might need improv on a DM's part. You could clear up the misunderstanding and say that's just a map quirk, or it looks different enough that it is probably something else, but... Sometimes you could reward those players by making them right even if you didn't plan on it.
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My "Pound of Flesh" as it were, and I have done this:
"Alright, well since I spent the previous week preparing for your other plans; I am going to need a week to prepare for your change of plans. No session today guys.... unless, you want to stick with your original plans..."
as he discussed in the video, it's pretty jerky and calls out your lack of good DM capabilities. It would discourage creativity and sense of ownership of the players. At least my pound of flesh on it.
@@jujujohnson01 I would argue that telling the DM you want to go into the Dungeon of Dread next week, knowing he's going to spend the week preparing it, and then showing up to the session and without warning saying, "We want to go to the Crystal Palace instead," is MUCH more of a jerky thing to do, and calls out their lack of good player capabilities. What you're basically doing here is saying Charlie Brown needs to be a better player when he falls down after Lucy pulls the ball out from under his foot. She's not supposed to do that. Neither are players supposed to say, at the end of a session, "We want to go here!" and then, at the start of the next, without warning the DM, "Psych! We fooled ya! We want to go THERE instead!"
Option 4:
Reskin your planned encounter. Your dungeon is now a palace. Your goblins are now guards. The princess is now a pair of eggs.
Don't you mean the dragon is a pair of eggs since the dragon is the one being saved from the princess?
Reskins aren't really always an option, mainly because your map ends up being invalid. It's hard to necessarily turn a mazy labyrinth or cave into a palace. And a lot of times reskinning the monsters don't make sense unless they're nothing but totally bland brute monsters with no special abilities.
Your steam locomotive is now an electric bullet train.
when you install mods in your dnd adventure
@@taragnor you just be honest and say it was supposed to be the other adventure.
Having a good relationship with your players in which you respect each other and understand the unique challenges that each other face in the game is the absolute most powerful X Factor in solving almost every D&D problem ever, and I'm glad you mentioned that
My players said they wanted to search the obviously corrupt noble’s house for evidence of corruption.
I planned a whole heist adventure with guard patrols and 3 pieces of evidence that aren’t very incriminating on their own, but become very damning when you look at all 3.
The players broke into one room, found one piece of vague evidence, and then left immediately.
Gotta love when that happens, haha.
In this case, you turn up the pressure with an unexpected complication that makes staying *inside* the house a little while longer more attractive. They can still try to scram with the single evidence, but it would result in fighting an incredibly strong creature or maybe incriminating themselves in whatever scandal they're trying to solve in the first place.
Hindsight and all, I know. Hopefully the next time this happens it goes a bit closer to plan.
This is why I have "random" encounters handy to run out the session.
They told me they were going to join the orcs in their invasion. I prepared a whole war session. They tell me they've changed their mind at minute one. I tell them oh okay, well thats what I prepped so see you guys next week. They never changed their mind on me again
This is why my session recap includes reminding my players what they were planning.
There is a social contract here, and the players are violating it in the example. 4:00 "It's much better to allow your players to choose." YOU DID THAT ALREADY. Last week. You asked them to choose and they said, "We want to go to the dungeon of dread." They made their choice. Asking them to STICK TO IT is not robbing them of choice. It's asking them to stay with their original choice. If they really don't want to do the Dungeon of Dread tonight -- OK. Then let's play a board game or something, because BASED ON YOUR CHOICE LAST WEEK, that is what I prepared. Players get to make choices, yes. But what you don't get to do is whimsically change your mind AFTER the GM has prepared what YOU CHOSE. I would argue that improv'ing and going along with the new choice is only enabling the bad player behavior that this example is describing here. They'll just keep doing it. Finally, "You have to improvise stuff anyway" is a red herring here. This is not about improv. It's about the players telling you "We want to do X, go ahead and prep it." And then next week saying, "SUCKAH! We're doing Z instead!" GMs should not put up with this kind of behavior.
If my players change their mind, I'd end the session and have a heart to heart. Improv is alright but if it goes completely the other direction, I'm not ok with that. It's a respect issue for me. I respect my players enough to say what they are going to do, I prep for the week, and we play. If the expectation wasn't set, then it's my responsibility to adapt accordingly.
Yeah I feel it's a big violation of the social contract for players to change their minds after you've prepped. They had time to make a choice, they made the choice. Now they have to live with it.
Matt Colville did a video on railroading vs open world games and he told a story where he had done a bunch of prep work, and basically had this happen while he was really busy at work. At the very start of a session, one of his players insisted that the party should just leave and go off onto a part of the map that he hadn't prepared at all. So he told them they could do that, but that would be the end up the session for the day, and since he was really busy at work and didn't have any time to prep for that area, then they wouldn't be playing for at least another three weeks. They quickly changed their minds lol
@wesleytoone9479 Absolutely, I've seen the same video I believe. I do basically the same thing. Thanks for thr reply.
They just violated an unspoken contract with me. From now on it is a spoken contract. And the session ends.
Really? Do you not know how to improvise?
This is actually a dream session for me. At my table, my players tell the story, I just narrate it. I am really good at telling a story on the fly.
Once you have an adventure planned, just tell the players that's the adventure you're playing. I know people will scream "RAILROAD!!" but that's not really railroading. It's simply playing the adventure a DM has prepped. Players can still make their own decisions within the adventure being played. The DM isn't restricting their agency within that current adventure. Just play what you've prepped. If players don't want to play, let them DM
There is a difference between rail roading and following the plot hooks.
It's always the forever players that scream Railroad when it clearly isn't.
I actually find that some of the things that I improv are better than the things I plan 😂😂
What's the difference, really? Either way, you are making stuff up. Either way, it's your creativity at play.
@@davidmorgan6896 typically in my case, I tend to overthink and complicate things. But you aren’t wrong
I have gotten a few times when I improv'd the whole session that it was their favorite. Start to question why I even plan at all! Haha
@@jujujohnson01 oh yea!! Our last session was like this. I had a very basic outline planned but the small bits I just made up on the spot. I was honestly proud of myself
I typically have plenty in mind for travel encounters and also I have two books of puzzles I can throw in on a moment's notice for these occasions. Improving an NPC social interaction is also a strength of mine. Putting them all together in some order usually gets me through a session gone sideways lol. You brought up some things I hadn't thought of and I am taking notes. I do need to expand my set of maps for online play though to accommodate unexpected divergences however. I have a folder started with some generic stuff like forest trails, ruins etc.
Most of the time I'm listening to my players debate and talk about the challenge in front of them and it helps me a lot to improvise. Players usually have crazy ideas I haven't thought of and I'm using their ideas.
"Losers", "Yeah and your paying us to do it" that reference? My greatest fear, even after 35 years, is that no one shows up.
I love The DM Lair videos.
I used to prep extensively before, and then once my players decided to do a different thing than what they originally planned between sessions. I ended up running an almost entirely improvised session (tying it into the main plot still) and my players had an awesome time, saying it was one of my best sessions. I still kept doing extensive prep between sessions, and after a few more improvised sessions due to players doing the unexpected, one of my players (one of whom had started the game group with me) came up to me and said, "So the rest of us have been talking, and we realised we can tell the difference between sessions you've prepped and the ones you haven't."
I was going bonkers because I thought I'd been doing a terrible job, when he continued and said, "We've been having much more fun with your improvised sessions than your planned ones, so I've been asked to tell you to stop prepping so hard. Your improvisations are much more interesting."
Ever since then, I've prepped the world setting, ideas for NPCs with goals and such that the party can come across, a rough plot outline, and then let them do whatever they want and just improv the heck out of a session. In between sessions, my prep just consists of writing down what they've done and how it might affect NPC goals, double-checking contested rules, and finding cool maps and music to use.
This is why preparation for more than just "next week's session" is important. If you have the basics of the castle adventure prepped then running it and improving the details wouldn't be too difficult.
Last time this happened to me, I jumped the players with bounty hunters sent by the bad guy in one of their backstories. It took a couple of hours to play through which gave me enough time to make up the basis of the exploration they wanted to do. So keeping a couple of "random" encounters up my sleeve.
There are so many great points on this video - the first is the "Standard 5 Room Dungeon Contruction" - I've never heard of it by name - I mean as a DM I know the concept and have used it but I didn't realize this was a thing that was a part of the process. Brillian.
Next, what made me really pay attention to this video is the line: Just try to survive - AND this is the advice for the DM and not his players - and I love it because it's usually the opposite. I loved my past players - but damn they stretched me so many times.
The last thing I like is your advice on a non-random random encounter table. Mainly because I don't use pre-made random encounter tables either - I have encounters prepared that I can drop randomly if needed and it can still advance the game. So yes you can make your random encounters into encounters random.
Now before you think I'm going to praise heavy: Hey Luke you're a Looooooooooooooser - mainly because I don't see a cat or hear any references to bacon on this video.
I'm planning a homebrew campaign based in and around the sea, where going from point A to point B is usually aboard a ship. I could have a stall bag with "A dragon turtle says hi" or "A brass dragon won't stop dropping the anchor to have a chat with you" or "You are sucked in to a storm and the sails are broken" or "There is conflict among the crew and captain" etc etc etc.
I think I'll be fine.
I keep one or two "you fell into a cavern" or "you got sucked into a vortex" side quests in pocket when this happens, and I spring them in transit. I just use pre-built side quests from Lair magazine and the like. Easy and no stress.
One easy way to buy yourself planning time is to have a puzzle ready they can work on without your involvement. On the way to whatever, they’re ambushed by a few bandits, on whom they find a note encoded with a simple cipher, maybe just a plain old monoalphabetic substitution cipher made by using some weird glyph font. A good INT roll gets them started with a hint (“One of the bandits called the leader ‘Drax’ - could that be the first word?”) but otherwise they’ve got to do it by hand. Voila, you have 15-20 minutes to plan what they find at their destination while they decode some backstory. And if you don’t overuse it, the group usually has a lot of fun doing it.
There is a difference between player agency and player accountability. A good game requires that the players have agency or the ability to choose their actions, but it also requires accountability to those choices. At some point, the players can no longer be allowed to change their mind once having made a decision. Like rolling to hit a monster then seeing that it is a miss and wanting to change their action to something other than an attack. I wouldn't allow them to change their mind at that point, I would hold them accountable to the choice they made. In the example given here, the players were able to make a choice. This isn't a question of railroading your players. It is a question of accountability and how far into the choice a DM will allow the players to change their mind. There is no right or wrong answer, just like every thing in RPGs, but there is a point that the players need to be held to the decisions that they are making. I personally would hold them to the choice they made. It isn't reasonable to expect me, as the DM, to double or triple my work because the players do not want accountability for their choices. RPGs need to be a balance and the work load is already very heavily skewed onto the DM. I think it is completely reasonable to limit the addition of DM work load.
I agree, If they had the choice of walking to the Dragon Caves or the Spooky Prison, they got to stick with their choices.
You cant take back say a punch to a cops face.
I just effortlessly switch into improv mode and come up with a bizarre and entertaining NPC for them to have a long conversation with. Once they start traveling, I throw a couple pre-generated encounters at them and next thing you know it’s “see you next session” time. Ending early or not having the game is never ever an option.
Thanks for making this vid man. This issue regarding what to do when my players go off the trail they put me on is really helpful. I love all the videos that the DM Lair makes, and glad to see your stuff pop up in my feed!
1:10 "How do you deal with such treachery ?"
I invested in a morgenstern. It's been pretty great since I used it once.
You'll be remembered for you sacrifice Sam.
This is one of your best videos. Well done! I do try to keep a few 5-room dungeons handy to "kill" a session, but also, in a pinch, I'm not above calling for a 30-minute break while I emergency prep. Like you said, it's way better than not playing at all.
Love all your stuff, sir! Keep it up!
#1) I am a serial over preparer and have long since been acclimated to my players going off the path completely. So if my players changed their minds at the start of a new session, i probably could run with that, it just wouldn't be as clean.
#2) With all my over-prepared ness, I can tackle improv pretty well. But it did take me years to get the confidence to manage it. I think this is something that comes with experience.
Aside, I love Theater of the Mind
#3) Stalling is less of an issue when you address the elephant in the room off the bat. My group at least is pretty lenient in that regard. But putting any kind of "major decision" in front of the party is a pretty easy way to buy time without them realizing it. And suggesting a meal break is also a great way to buy time and recharge.
Some of my favorite sessions have been when the players "beat the DM" and I have to improvise my butt off. They tend to be the most fun, hilarious sessions as I fumble challenge ratings occasionally and what I thought would be a challenge turns out to be a cakewalk.
Awesome tips as always. Great bacon.
I had a random encounter option from a prior session that I pulled out to stall to the end when the party made a choice in game I didn’t expect. Then the small village they arrived at only spoke the local language, hardly any common, while the one guy who did speak it and the wizard with Comprehend Languages were busy elsewhere harvesting the creature they just killed.
You can always switch it up with a one shot in a system you wanted to play before, like Steve Jackson’s Toon.
Or run them through tomb of horrors with the premade characters and don’t pull punches.
I usually end up having to improv stuff about every 3 or 4 sessions. The downside is that I have to scramble to slap together a VTT map and pull in stuff from my library of baddies - the upside is that because of the stuff that I *did* prep, I now have build up a whole library of baddies and set encounters: I didn't set out to build a sandbox world, but now I have one.
My current campaign setting is on a large continent. One of the features is a city that fell into ruin over a millennia before, being divided by three factions and the people there becoming undead. There are three bosses. Naturally, one of the players decided the party should cleanse the city, and talked the others into it. Completely unexpected. I thought, "Oooh haunted city for flavour." I put a major quest item on the outskirts, just to add texture and a real sense of danger (especially for the meta in the experienced players who hear the words "banshee," "ghost," and "lich"). But the real crusader of the group (a Druid/Lion of Talisid) saw cleansing the city as a way to make the world a better place, so once the initial campaign was completed and the party kept going, the city became the capstone adventure. (The party is currently lvl 19, Pathfinder Core/3.x mashup homebrew.)
My stalling session turned into a quest for knowledge and aide. The party, as large as it is (5 chars and an animal companion), cannot storm a city by itself! So off it goes to convince some of the people of the same race to retake the city, which they don't want to do for shame and pain. Some side-quests turned into urgent requests, and I put MacGuffins into the side-quests that tied back to the city and the nefarious actions there. The party petitioned city-states for assistance with storming the city. I added quests to obtain aide, and knowledge about what to expect. And now, the party has redeemed two of the undead faction leaders (banshee and ghost) and is storming the lich's labyrinth.
Meanwhile, one of the PCs is being followed by a ghost seeking to possess him. (The ghost is distantly related to the PC's wife, and is seeking vengeance on his own family by getting to her. Unfortunately, it's my most meta-player, and while she digs my lore, she doesn't get into playing my races as written. Instead, she sees cat people as an opportunity to anthropomorphize her pets. Consequently, anything bad happening to her chars is like me kicking her cats. Getting her to play up to being possessed will be an uphill struggle--nearly as monumental a task as getting her to play a different face in the next campaign. And since neither of her chars has any Prot vs Evil or Extended Prot vs Evil prepared, that possession is going to happen.)
By the by, if your erase maps aren't erasing all that well, try purchasing a clear vinyl tablecloth to put over it and some chalkboard chalk markers. I recently did this, and it's working well! Plus, I can pre-draw that puppy and tuck it away leaving the grid clear for in-between sessions.
All the players I've run games for love shopping. Especially magic item shopping. Come up with a list of weird and sometimes useless items and roll on the list to see what the shopkeeper has (common items in XGtE is a good start.) You can come up with a weird/mysterious shopkeeper that doesn't tell the whole truth and is clearly trying to scam the players. That should kill 1 to 5 hours. I had a whole adventure planned one time and my players just wanted to go shopping.
some personal favorite useless magic items:
Dwarven soup spoon
- Just a wooden stick, the identify spell does not work on it. When placed in a liquid in a bowl or similar container the wooden stick stirs the liquid.
Ring of troll detection
- Has no effect (DM makes a wide grin every time they bring it up)
Personally, I'm a big fan of having at least 2 adventures always in my bag.
One is the one the players wanted to go on.
The other one is not a full adventure but "travel and a twist". In effect that is just the way to the new target, the group is heading for, with a nice encounter AND a small side quest.
I always make sure that the travel part offers me one of the options to choose from, social or combat, and for the side quest. For I always try to make this part not so combat-heavy but more skills-related or some demanding puzzle...
Basically, so that the demand for resources is not high, they are not likely to be able to "refill" before the "alternate Adventure" starts the next session (for D&D, if you play with those short/Long Rest rules you will have less problems with exhausted and depleted characters).
Over time this has resulted in a few different "travel and a twist" adventures I have in stock, I keep them in my "RPG anywhere, whenever and immediately bag". And when it comes to meeting friends who are players, never leave home without it!
Thank you Luke, I love all DM lair videos
One of my favorite things is when my players go "off the rails" even if its against what they said they would do the last session. That means they are thinking of the game outside of playtime and they are trying to engage my world. Even if I'm improvising 100% of my session multiple sessions in a row it brings me so much joy to know my players are that interested in my world they actually want to explore it.
100 percent. I don't even ask them what they are going to do next session. I know my world, I have tons of triggers to set off encounters all over my map and story. The improve is always the most organic and make the best sessions
@@kevinmurphy667 Total improv is great but I will say I also love being able to plan out specific things too. If my players don't take them then that is totally fine but having a specific event waiting for one of my PCs if they end up doing XYZ. But either way my goal is for my players to be enjoying themselves
This happened to me. I told my players this: "alright, if you want to do the thing you are telling me you want now rather than last time, we can but i will either have to do it off the cuff or we skip this week and play next week so i cam prepare. Or if you want we can do as you said you wajted last time." Worked wonders
For me, it depends. For years, we had a sandbox-style game, and I am very comfortable improvising. When they go into an unexpected direction, I stall for a few minutes to sketch a few ideas and just use them.
When I feel that I cannot improvise something nice, I tell them “You told me X, so I prepared for X, you may go do Y, but expect it to be less structured and potentially more dangerous than expected”.
My group wants a “real concurrent” world, so they actually sometimes go with the second option if they think that genuinely is the better choice.
But that only works because of our “play culture” and me already not doing much preparation. At least not much specific prep, I do quite extensive world building, but that is reusable.
14:14 "Enough stalling, back to stalling!"
i have a folder of modular encounters, some premade no prop mods too. ill mix a few together changing the details here and there, i turn these sessions into exploration sessions and save the story i made for them for another location... i have learned to be more fluid in my DMing cause of this issue.
I really love all DM Lairs videos. And his weekly email is worthwhile!
I'm blessed with the ability to improvise but also the capacity to maximize the value of prep ( really good at doing 1 hour of work and have it stretch across 3 sessions that are each 4 hours long ).
Also i spent decades studying psychology , philosophy & etc.
I have never personally had this issue. I always create 2 scenarios one where they do what is plan or 2 they don't. If they don't they have to actually travel to whatever place the choose fighting mobs or what not. Which is already laid out depending the region I simply choose the level of monsters they fight upon the way. From the weakest to maybe the regional apex. Always plan out your maps with monsters included. It will stop a lot of hassle while allowing the players to feel like it's a real world
I love ALL the DM Lair videos!!!!
Ah man.. Winging it can lead to the best stories. I recall one session, roughly 20 years ago, and the party I was DM-ing for were tracking some drow into the underdark. Anyway, they head into this cave system and while still tracking the drow they come upon this underground lake. Now I had put some moored boats in the description, alongside the trail the drow tracks at this lake. So instead of keep tracking the drow, the players are totally mesmerized by the boats and decide to use one of the boats to go exploring. I did not prep for this. So they get into the boat and push off. Meanwhile I am scribbling behind my screen, trying to at least piece a map together, 'where does this lake go, probably into an underground river somewhere, ok, I got this..'. So the players mess around in the boat and briefly entertain the thought of picking up the landbased track of the drow again. Briefly, as one conjures up the idea that there may have been more boats and they might find the drow somewhere on the water. So they head off onto the lake. Me: * scribble scribble more scribble * "Sure, go on..". I decide to disuade them a little by telling them they end up in a narrow sidecave and they can hear rushing water. They ignore this completely and press on. I emphasize that this sounds like rushing water. They push on and head out of the narrow cave stream into a clearly strong current underground river. I ask for strength checks (or the equivalent of) to see if they can still steer the boat. Turns out they can't and are now rushing for a waterfall. Mage casts levitate in order to save party, but momentum still moves the boat. Party ends up going over the waterfall floating towards back end of a larger cave as the opposite cave wall closes with some speed. They manage to use quarterstaffs and a spear to break their momentum. SO at this point I'm thinking "They'll head back now, surely".. Nope.. They lower the boat. Time for my last resort then, I got an idea. They land hundreds of feet down in a deep lake, and decide to make landfall on the only shore there. They look for signs of drow. No drow. A group of Umberhulks appear to the party of level 4 adventurers and eat the fighter. Party runs carrying parts of said fighter in a bucket, hoping to res him later, and levitate their boat the F out of there. Suffice to say this taught my players to be WAY MORE CAREFUL. None of it was planned ahead of time on my side of the screen, it was funny, albeit in a morbid way, and everyone STILL remembers, and not just because I tell this tale at birthday parties... 😎
I never plan encounters based on what my players want. I ask them what does their characters want and add elements of that to some of the encounters that I built and have an encounters here and there dedicated for payoffs. Normally my encounters are loose, I plan the initial scene, I create 3 to 4 versions of encounters (a mix of npc, riddle and monsters) and 2 boss battles “. Then I drop in the way of my players as they make decisions.
I love ALL the DM Lair videos!
You know exactly how to get Luke's videos sent directly to your start page. 😂😂😂
Idk about "worst nightmare" I have a ton of fun improving in sessions. Personally, I think, the best teacher is experience. Get a few friends, and invite them over for a improv 1 shot. Come up with a framework inside you're head, and go. Back when I was a teen, we'd just decide to play a game, randomly on the spot, so we'd just go. Do a role down the line 3d6 take what you get and see what kind on build you can make work. Makes character creation a bit quicker due to limiting choices... kinda... depends on who you're playing with.
Thankfully my group does a good job of sticking with what they planned on doing the previous session. However, their point of engagement on the adventure almost always requires me to improvise. I try to at least to a rough layout in my head of a few ways they could attempt to accomplish the mission at hand and they almost always try something I wasn't planning on.
Improve is the “ spice of life “. I find it easier to have a beginning and an end point and leave everything else to be left to chance. Plotting out everything can not only frustrate you as a DM but can make your players feel boxed in. Also things the players do that you don’t plan for can give you fuel for future scenarios.
I didn't know about the five room dungeon,this gonna be very helpful.
Suddenly drop in a crashing object from space somewhere close by, could be a ship, a meteorite, body part of an ancient dead god, the egg of a powerful monster from another game system, an escape pod, etc., etc. This type of thing can give you some time to get your thoughts reordered while your players head out to investigate, and if they decide not to you can always have their neglect of the situation come down to some heavy consequences. Just one of several different strategies you can use in situations like these. =^_^=
Planning and then having to scrap all the plans. It's as natural as rain on a Sunday morning.
I always run my games by setting up available options towards the end. When the session is over, they tell me their next move. They are usually motivated enough to stick to their choice since its what all players agreed on and they have their stake in the choices they make
When my players go off the rails, I have a website to generate dungeon maps, a book of traps and puzzles, and a book of quests and ideas. While they're traveling, I'll get them in an encounter of some sort; when they finish, I call for a break and hodgepodge a dungeon.
I favor the leveling route if the players Zig instead of Zag so hard I know I won't provide a quality game for their time. I also make them lock in their decision for next week's game plan & open the session with them arriving where they said they wanted to go last week.
If they still wanna Zig, we'll pick this up next week & play Smash Bros in the meantime.
My game is set in the homebrew world my mom created 30 years ago and I run all my games in now. I was running two campaigns and one of them fizzled out, but I let the plot points they were following keep progressing. My other game kept going and one of my players keeps a really detailed spreadsheet of all the things the party want to do. They ended up running into some of the same areas the previous party had been and picked up on a plot point from that previous game. I had the things all prepped for the ones they had on their spreadsheet and i DID have the stuff set up for the location, but it was not fully prepped or uploaded to my VTT for this group.
I just leveled with them since it was not part of what they originally planned it was not uploaded and fully prepped, if they wanted to go that way it was fine but I would need to cut the session short and I would have everything ready on the next session (mind you we were already mid way through the session at this point). They ended up deciding to follow up on that clue after the quest they were working on, and it gave me time to get it ready. and in doing so set them on a journey that lead to a totally different campaign ending than was planned. I was not planning to go into 3rd OR 4th tier play for this group but .. here we are.
I try to always have the Thing They Planned To Do and a Fancy Side Thing prepped, because I know my players. They will always go off the beaten path if reminded that's an option. Hell, one table spent a full 5 hours session of Wild Beyond the Witchlight repairing a hot air balloon so they didn't have to walk through the swamp. Why did it take that long? Because they decided to investigate a tower instead of the cavern they had decided to go to the previous session. Granted, I then spent a silly amount of time coming up with aerial encounters instead of being able to use the pre-prepped ones in the adventure module.
thankfully i've done a lot of acting and drama club because my players are seasoned players and i'm a first time DM running a totally homebrew campaign and they a throwing me for a loop. I will say though, it is some of the most fun i've had playing dnd. I'm lucky I made a big world and mapped out the whole thing so there's a lot to work of of
this happened to me recently players decoded to surrender a maguffin to the entity that wanted and i could not think of reasonable reason that would be refused so chunk of planned time was Discarded and i didn't have the next thing ready yet
luckily thay had a major character moment that felt like a good note to end on
Well done, Luke!
I love all DM Lair videos
Thanks for the video!
I love thedmlair videos!
You're welcome from prof Dm
Hold on that 5 steps for dungeon rooms thing was huge news to me. Can you make a video expanding on that, or do you have one already? Unsure what trick/set back would be good to use.
As always, your videos are insanely helpful
What I do? More or less the same:
- Tell the players it's ok to change their minds... but I haven't prepped this stuff, so don't blame me if today's game won't be as enjoyable as usual.
- Throw in a puzzle/point of interest. I like to use a "magic" machine, with a few buttons and levers. Players usually like to fiddle with it, if it doesn't really look like it will harm them. It's quite easy to make stuff up for a "magic" machine since it can do anything and it doesn't really need to make much sense. Buuut it soaks up a lot of game time (30 min easily), and this game time is usually not that intense on the DM so I can prep the rest in that time ;-).
- A combat encounter or a "distracted" quircky NPC can also work, but is a bit more more work/improv on the DM. A "chain" of NPC's pointing from one guy to the other often stretches the game as well without much work
- And yeah, let them talk and be indecisive
Improvisation is an important skill, but can be challenging to have to do a whole session of it, especially if it happens regularly. I think groups should reward their DMs with Bacon!
Well, so far I haven't had my players go "of script" yet.
However that might be, because I might have over preped to an obscene extend AND they are kind enough to actually do one of their several quests, instead of something completely different. Half of them are vereran rollplayers and dungeon masters, who are aware of the risks of leaving the track and they are also aware, that I technically run a module.,,or rather a couple combined to one.
Most of your advice is very handy and useful for me, except the stalling part. There is no way I can stall for 8 hours, but I can delay them for long enough to come up with something on the fly, if I have to, I guess. I would still recommend "listening to your players talking" with one ear, at least, since that can give you great inspiration of "how to twist things into shape"
i could picture it coming outta jim carrie's mouth but not which movie. between ace venture (most probable) and maybe Liar Liar
I love ALL the DM's Lair videos (if you know, you know)
Thanks Luke.
One of the most natural stall tactics I have is to wait for my players to start RPing amongst themselves and figure out what I need to while they're working things out in character.
Depends on my mood. Most times I'll just roll with it and improv it. The players figure out what happened when I'm drawing the map by hand using the vtt's rather primitive drawing tools. If I'm in a bad mood, I'll be like, Oh gosh darn it, you level 1 PCs, Tiamat is guarding the king's palace. TPK! Yey! Now lets roll up some new characters and next week you'll do the Dungeon of Dread like you said you would, right?
I love your videos. Keep up the good work!
My top DM fear:
"DM, my 2nd cousin is having a birthday party today, so I'll have to skip. But I'll definitely be there next week" Other players: "We really need everyone today for the big fight and don't feel like playing a one shot, so let's skip"
Skips to next week: "I'm feeling sick, so I'll need to skip today...." Yada yada yada, no DnD and can't run another group in that time slot because maybe THIS might be the week.
i.e. The Scheduling Cycle of Doom
The Scheduling Demon is a 30 CR monster with 100% resistance to all forms of damage and an attack that can TPK an entire gaming group.
I have had this rarely happen. We have a Discord channel and we chat in between sessions. A week to a few days I post a reminder and I usually give a 1 or 2 sentence recap of what was planned next session
I.e. **NEXT SESSION**
2/10/24 Noon
Return to Waterdeep after a tenday rest at our new home. Or..
*Ettrian Returns Home*
Since I started this, everyone knows what is being planned, and if they did want to do something different, it would come up in Discord. Then, I would have a few days to change up.
My players don't do this mostly because it's generally improvised. I have about a dozen different scenarios ready to go that are adjacent to the main campaign so with a few key points and general NPC notes, we're off and running.
I have this one player in a bunch of my games that I've known for quite a while, he has this thing where, every time he's had a bad day at work, he will do his darndest to derail games that he's a part of. It doesn't matter how much I ask, or plead, or call him out, if he's had a bad day, he WILL take it out on the game. The worst part of all this is, when he's NOT being a douchebag, he's the best player I've ever met, he helps other, newer players, he helps me with rule confusions, he goes out of his way to encourage other people to take part, he polices the table for metagaming or phones or tangents that's gone too far when I'm too busy with something else, and is just an all-round sweetheart. But EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. He has had a bad customer or coworker incident, the game suffers for it. He's been unemployed for a while now so this haven't been an issue lately, but since he's hunting for jobs I'm dreading the day when this would become a problem again. I don't want to kick him from my games because of how helpful he is and how much fun it is to play when he's involved, but his tendency to take his frustrations out on my game is on the verge of killing my interest in continuing to play D&D... Luke (or anyone else reading this), help?
I'm lucky to have players who respect the work I put into the game. We already all agree they have to go on the main quest when we start a campaign, along with their personal quests. But if they want to go do something I haven't prepared for yet, depending I'll adapt and improve it or be honest with them that the area isn't ready yet and they can usually willingly change their direction and no one is bummed.
Oh I prepare so much, but really wish they had tried that!
Every group has something they will spend hours mindfvcking. Use that.
My players do that more often than not. Fortunately, running improv is my best comfort zone.
I am running a pure wilderness exploration adventure. the characters are helping establish a trade town/port.
as GM, I understand the region, but nothing specific is planned. I have encounter concepts, but nothing fleshed out.
while this is more commonly known as improv, I consider this, the adventure of flowing water. at times is slow and smooth and other times it's fast with rapids and hazards. additionally, throwing in 'red herrings' and clues that will never become something, adds to the immersion. not everything you put into the game needs to be useful.
2 things: a lot of time, I let my players talk before we start, between 5 and 15 minutes. Just let them ramble on for as long as you need, or until you have at least some idea planned out (don't go overboard). Also, just level with them. Say, "Hey, I didn't plan for this. If you want to do this, give me like 20 minutes (upwards of an hour, depending on how long you play) to reprep." If you're all friends, you should be good with watching videos together, telling stories, or playing some short game for a bit before you hop back in.
great video!
My players are very chaotic when making decisions so I always spend 45 min after sessions to plan 3-4 different maps and scenarios I know they might choose to do next session.
There is the option to not end the session on a decision. if they say they want to go to the Dungeon of Dread, just continue the session for 5-10 more minutes to roleplay the prep the party does and the journey to the dungeon. Then end the session when the party arrive just in front of the dungeon entrance. No turning back after that point.
I would simply have NOT told the PCs about the dragon eggs hidden away in the kings castle, and instead have the dragon dispense that information upon rescue.
I like all your videos. Keep it up!
Just happened to me to have to improvise an entire session because some of the players cancelled last minute and it didn't feel right to do play through the big events I had prepared without them. I explained the situation to the players present and I think they were okay just trying to figure out the session as we went on, and in the end it was not the best session but it turned out fine.
I have stress nightmares about running a bad session
I’ve had to improv a session or two.
Good tips
Ok, guys. We aren't doing the Dungeon of Dread after all, we are going to the Woodchipper of Death. Buckle up buttercup, you may want to keep the PG handy, on the char gen section.
6:28 Ngl, been trying to adjust to my bros and girl deliberate de-railing for laughs horseshit for some two years or so. Despite their laughter, enjoyment, and willingness to return for more when they’re taking it seriously, I still feel like my improv comes up short. Definitely got better at writing campaigns around their behavior though
I been doing this for 10+ years plan always plan for your players to forget, have a random epiphany, or just not want to do the thing for a number of reasons. I think every GM should just practice improvising a session once and a while. It may be rough bit I found a group that loves randomness. (I have a story, it just keeps going on in the background while they figure out their group synergy). I threw a black dragon wyrmling at them at level 1. It was a social encounter but the bastards actually thought they could fight the damn thing. They didn't even kill single kobold so I had the dragon curse one of them but let them live so they could get more gold for him to steal. As GM it's your job not to kill your players but to challenge them. If they lose try not to kill them unless that's just how that's gonna go. Capture is a fun adventure too.
Nah, if my group tried this, they'd simply be told "no". If they want to do something completely different than they've told me previously, then sorry no game tonight as there simply isn't anything planned. If they're going to disrespect my time spent preparing QUITE so badly, I'm going to disrespect their time of coming together.
On an extreme level I agree. Most of the time one can expect some reasonable variation though. A fairly normal "change my mind" situation is if the party meets an obstacle that proves easier/harder than they expected. They might decide to change their approach to whatever they were planning on the spot. Too easy? "We can afford to get there earlier". Too hard? "We might have to fall back".
@@goncalocarneiro3043 changing method of approach to a specific thing is no problem, I just set up situations and then deal with how the players approach it when they get to it.
Going to an entirely different location than planned though? Nope, not happening.
@@RequiemWraith I could also see that happening, but it would have to be "your fault". As in, for example, say a party comes across a clue to something they value. Doesn't matter what, but let's say it's a document that says X person (which the party loves/hates) was sent to Y place two days ago. Maybe the party will drop what they were doing and rush to get there instead of finishing whatever they were doing. I think that situation is reasonable.
@@goncalocarneiro3043 But if I plant that kind of document, I've already prepared the location, that's not an unexpected change of mind
@@RequiemWraith Indeed, so, as I said, it would have to be "your fault". My example was that there was a document which is a super overt way to change circumstances. Still, I feel like a DM could accidentally create a "clue" without noticing. Like, describe something in a way that unintentionally reminds a player of something, like a conspiracy theory of theirs and they decide to pay attention to that red herring. Something like "oh my gorsh, this looks like the symbol of X and Y, so this means this place/these guys are related to this faction which in turn means blah blah". Something like this might need improv on a DM's part. You could clear up the misunderstanding and say that's just a map quirk, or it looks different enough that it is probably something else, but... Sometimes you could reward those players by making them right even if you didn't plan on it.