You should do more synth videos, Chrissie. This was much more informative and watchable than the Sonic State one I saw - and there were no forced adverts, either :)
Thank you! I have some ideas for more reviews so I will definitely do some, it's deciding which will be most use. On the one hand new gear is helpful to people but I also like the 'one year on' format that says how I've used it in practice. I could do both ;-) I'm not in control of ads so I hope they don't start to appear. I don't "monetise" this channel and almost certainly never will so I hope that's the reason. Also I only ever use my own music.
Reviewing things you're familiar with would be good. A lot of reviews of new gear contain mistakes caused by a lack of proper understanding of how to use things. You can only really know what's good about something, or deeply annoying, after you've used it for a while. A lot of synth reviews are obsessed with sequencing too, so it's nice to see one done by an actual musician, instead of just a knob tweaker. I expect more ads will creep into UA-cam in general, but sonicstate, and some others, sell advertising space in their videos - which gets really intrusive, breaks up the flow, and generally can't be skipped. I've noticed some Americans do the ads in a "Word from our sponsors" style, and read them out themselves, which is better because I can skip ahead. I think you're fairly safe, since you don't monetise it - at least, your channel won't get worse than anyone else's, in that respect, when Google make the ads more widespread. I've discovered a good remedy for sonicstate's ads is Adblock Plus. No doubt Google will do their best to find a way around it, but they're only wasting their own time if they do.
looks and sounds like a lovely synth. i've been looking around and asking around if the sequencer is a multi track one but unfortunately it isn't. its a shame there isn't at least four track sequencer built in. thanks for the vid and keep it up. your definitely the guy to go to for a good demo of this synth
Best vid about this synth easily. I play electric cello and bass so using effects to shape sound I already know. Your ‘nice’ mike made it possible to hear the buttons keys and sliders being used. I was concerned that the unit is built cheaply and is a bit nasty. You demonstrated this is not the case. I particularly like your demonstration of the keys and the key bed. I’m a synth newbie and your explanations I found easily understandable. I would like to see more reviews from you. You are seriously good at it. You are believable and straight down the line honest.
Thanks! I do like doing reviews, but I haven't bought any synth gear for a long time now (and I'll only review things I buy) so I haven't really had any to do. I have some idea though :)
Excellent hands on review. We agree on probably all points. Did you upgrade to the 12? Would love to try out a 12 or 12D sometimes, since the 6 has its limitations, which we sometimes solved with the effects. For example a long reverb to give the illusion that there are more than 6 voices (or 3 when in 2 voice unison). Another one cool one is using the pitchshifter ("dual pitch") to create fat sounds without using unison.
I didn't bother with the 12 TBH, I don't have a lot of room for anything larger, and already have digital synths that are useful for more chordal polyphony.
Thanks for review. On the matter of aftertouch. You can not expect it to be any given response without looking into 3 things first. (1) the aftertouch curve selected- out of soft/medium/high (2) the amount of aftertouch routed to any parameter in the menus for a given patch and (3) most difficult of all- the calibration of afertouch in the global settings. I am not sure if I have done (3) correctly. On exploring mine it seemed the curve was set to medium by default and in (3) the level was 24 per cent which i managed to get up to 70 per cent or so by pushing very hard during the calibration. I assume this is making it more sensitive but have not double checked enough. Anyway these 3 things are what people need to know.
That's a very fair comment, and I found afterwards that by setting the AT response to 'hard' made it much more usable. I haven't looked into the calibration menus yet, but it does seem odd that that it should ever be necessary to press down so hard on a keyboard that it needs two hands to make it reach a particular value.
Hello. There is a further reason for no or not much response. These things usually work by adding to the existing value of the target variable. So if its already at maximum nothing happens -in the case of this device it allows multiple sources to one destination so you might have already turned something to the maximum or near it when you hit the at. At the other extreme if the value starts at 0 the at has to push it up a lot to a noticeable level. But if a knob had say turned it to 25 or something then the at would have more noticeable effect by adding to that level. This could probably be made better by more scaling of a non linear nature to the at curves. But thats not given in the menus to date as its just hard/soft/medium.
It seemed counter intuitive, but yes, setting it to Hard gives the lighter response, and calibrating the aftertouch by pressing hard on a key, gives a lighter response too - which seems totally wrong, because it says it's taking that as the new maximum... I found a good way is to put my fingers under the keyboard and press down on a white key with my thumb. If I try to just press down on the top, I feel like I'm about to break something, but pressing by gripping hard is easier to control - you're not going to accidentally force a key sideways, doing that. FWIW, the aftertouch on the Minibrute needs a scary amount of force too, which made me feel better about taking the keyboard off and turning it into a module. AFAIK, that's not adjustable without a soldering iron. I've now got the aftertouch working at a reasonable pressure. Thanks for the tips, Samuel and Chrissie.
Update: After upgrading it from firmware 1.1.1 (which it came with) to 1.1.2, I did the Aftertouch calibration again. This time, I decided it was best to only press it as hard as I intend to press it for full on - which makes more sense, but that didn't seem to work before. Maybe it was a bug in 1.1.1, or just that I'm quite easily confused... It did seem to work better for pressing harder during the calibration, last time.
Lovey review Chrissie! Super informative!! If you had to choose between this synth and the Microkorg, what would you recommend? I don’t have a ton of money and am looking to make more ambient and harsh noise type pieces? Thank you
Thanks! I don't have any direct experience with the Microkorg so I can't really do a comparison for you. I do think the Deepmind is an excellent synth for ambient work though. It has a lovely dark sound and the effects give it quite a range of expression. The distortions might be good for your harsh noise work too :)
The Microkorg is a digital four voice polysynth and this is an analog 6 voice polysynth. Not comparable I'm afraid. The Deepmind has lots of hands-on control of the synth parameters whereas the Microkorg has a fiddly interface that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
@@Claidheambmor I got the DeepMind6 after a lot of consideration, and I'm happy with my first digital synth! Thank you very much tho! Some menu-diving but not too bad!
Thanks for the video. One question I have as I'm new to synthesizers, can I control the tuning of individual keys on the board? To do microtonal scales on this synth.
Not on this instrument no. There are some that can but they tend to be expensive I'm afraid. Also a lot of synths that allow individual tuning still enforce octaves - so you only get microtones between octaves (which is not much use if you want (eg) 48 notes in an octave!). There are controllers that do microtones by adding pitch-bend to the notes (eg Roli Seaboard) but again they can be expensive. It's not really my speciality so I'll stop now. But do plenty of research :)
@@yazansarayrah5088 The two I have are the Moog sub37 (though the Phatty's can also do it), and the Yamaha Montage. I'm sure there are others but those are the two I know of.
No, it doesn't have built-in speakers. It's designed really to connect to a mixer or computer recording interface. Speakers are a huge subject in themselves so I can't really recommend anything - it so much depends on what you want to do, how much space you have, room size, other gear, budget. And that's just for starters!
@@ChrissieCaulfield ok, after a week of deep immersion in this synth, I can confirm it: there's no way to set an usable tap tempo in any of the delays of the unit. I think it would be clever if Behringer will implement this feature in the next firmware update.
@@Ed_Mann I Don't have my unit at the moment so I can't check. But it does look (from the manual) that the various Delay effects can be set to a factor of the master tempo and that can be set by the tap tempo button. Has anyone actually tried this method? (I wish I could now!)
*Great review of a synth which has great potential* - I tried the DM6, but eventually sent it back due to the keybed being really clunky (thought I was just unlucky) and the aftertouch requiring a ridiculous amount of effort to trigger (so seeing yours I wonder if it is a common issue). The key hold button issue also bugged me! The fan noise didn't worry me too much as I believe you can change the settings in the unit to limit its use (useful when recording), however when I tried to record from mine there was a lot of background noise (hiss) on the outputs plus any electrical noise (say caused by switching on another bit of gear) seemed to be amplified by the DM6 and give a loud click on the outputs... not good ! One thing you may or may not have noticed already, but as you go thru the presets many of the sounds are repeated by default... why ?!? It's no big deal to delete these duplicates, but why ship the units in this state ! Talking about sound design the DM6/DM12 editor is very good... when it works; the problem I had was mine would lose connection after every 3rd change (again could just have been a bad unit). So I agree this is a great little synth, generally well built (it really does remind me of the kind of stuff Roland/Korg produced in the early 80's) and capable of making some really nice sounds - in fact I would say of all my synths the FX unit on this device is the best in class ! For now my DM6 has gone, but I think I'll wait a while - let Behringer get any production issues resolved and then look at getting another one at a later date... probably go for the DM12 tho just to have the extra voice capacity (for me 6 voices is not enough for playing those slow lush pads). Anyway interesting to see someones else's experience with this - thanks for sharing. Best Regards, Axel.
Thanks for the comments :) You can tame the aftertouch slightly by setting the curve to 'hard' (oddly), but it's nowhere near as beautifully expressive as my Montage (which, to be fair, was a LOT more expensive). With careful mod-matrix programming it can be made useful. I hand't noticed the repeated presets - that's a bit of a cheat! But I don't usually use shipped presets much anyway as they rarely do what I need and it's very quick to make what you need with this instrument.
Yep, there is no doubt this device has a lot of options to let you customise and tweak things... apart from the key hold button function of course, grrrr :-) But as you showed in the demo it is very quick and easy to assign things in the mod-matrix, for me this was one of the main attractions. So I will keep watching and see how you get on with the DM6 - I look forward to your next garden jam ! BTW how do you rate the Montage - I watched your indoor jam with it and it sounded great... I keep looking at getting a Montage6, but I already have the MOXF6 and I wonder how much more the Montage would bring me... I'd appreciate any comments you have. Best Regards, Axel.
I *love* the Montage - it's my main keyboard. I've not tried the MOXF so can't compare, but I am really like the FM engine - I think it's the most musical implementation of FM I've yet heard, it sounds fabulous. And the whole synth is so expressive, the keyboard responds so well and all of the controls do too. I did a brief blog about it but it's such an immense instrument it's hard to do it justice! chrissieviolin.wordpress.com/2018/02/18/rpm-challenge-and-yamaha-montage/
Thanks for the feedback - I'll go and take a read of your blog... perfect bedtime reading :-) Best Regards, Axel. (BTW the MOXF is amazing, so I can only imagine how good the Montage is... my wife won't let me try one - I wonder why !!!!)
whooo the montage is for you rich folks. i can live in the under a grand just fine. i have a grip of boards and modules and i am still nowhere near the price of a montage. i just ordered the dm6. cant wait
Hi. They are Sennheiser HD25 Mk II headphones and, yes, I would recommend them. I have a few pairs of headphones and these seem the cleanest sound, especially in the lower registers. Don't just take my word for it - I once went on a field recording course with the great Chris Watson and almost everyone else (including him) was using them too!
Sounds like a catch a cold IC chip , as always with Behringer ......almost. Buy a real annalog synth and the 'almosts' are left for 'almost' musici.The selling trick "analog" , the filters are before the digital effects (reverb and chorus).The most sounds are thicken with digital reverb.Buy yourselve a Yamaha cs1x / cs2x for 200euro and 500euro is left......almost. Or wait a few months to buy this Behringer , the whole mess of compressors / denoisers / headphone amps together with this synth are massive on a 2e hands for 'get 2 pay 1' .
Based on your review and nick batts (sonic lab) MINE should be here today.couldnt sleep last night,im like a big kid.great vid.
Great review, Thankyou.
It looks like a great value, fully featured analog polysynth.
Thank you for sharing much appreciated .
Great video, thanks for posting 😊
You should do more synth videos, Chrissie. This was much more informative and watchable than the Sonic State one I saw - and there were no forced adverts, either :)
Thank you! I have some ideas for more reviews so I will definitely do some, it's deciding which will be most use. On the one hand new gear is helpful to people but I also like the 'one year on' format that says how I've used it in practice. I could do both ;-)
I'm not in control of ads so I hope they don't start to appear. I don't "monetise" this channel and almost certainly never will so I hope that's the reason. Also I only ever use my own music.
Reviewing things you're familiar with would be good. A lot of reviews of new gear contain mistakes caused by a lack of proper understanding of how to use things. You can only really know what's good about something, or deeply annoying, after you've used it for a while.
A lot of synth reviews are obsessed with sequencing too, so it's nice to see one done by an actual musician, instead of just a knob tweaker.
I expect more ads will creep into UA-cam in general, but sonicstate, and some others, sell advertising space in their videos - which gets really intrusive, breaks up the flow, and generally can't be skipped. I've noticed some Americans do the ads in a "Word from our sponsors" style, and read them out themselves, which is better because I can skip ahead.
I think you're fairly safe, since you don't monetise it - at least, your channel won't get worse than anyone else's, in that respect, when Google make the ads more widespread.
I've discovered a good remedy for sonicstate's ads is Adblock Plus. No doubt Google will do their best to find a way around it, but they're only wasting their own time if they do.
Excellent review. I'd been undecided whether to go for the 6 or the 12. I'll wait for another month and go for the 12.
McOscillator hey what’s the difference of the two?
Great note about the sustain pedal! Didn't think of it at all before. This gives the Deepmind a true advantage in compare to the Minilogue
Great review ! We want MORE ! I also watched your other videos and I love the overall simplicity and honesty. Subscribed !
ThizIzReal thanks!
What is that in the background by the door at 3.46? A fly or? Thanks for the review
I'm not sure TBH (I was facing the other way ;-). It could have been a moth, I had a lot of moths in the house at that time.
I had a portamento knob potentiometer issue with a “like new” unit I picked up. I reordered a new DM6 because I Loved the sound,,, thank you 🙏🏻.
looks and sounds like a lovely synth. i've been looking around and asking around if the sequencer is a multi track one but unfortunately it isn't. its a shame there isn't at least four track sequencer built in. thanks for the vid and keep it up. your definitely the guy to go to for a good demo of this synth
Thanks! Yes it does seem odd having a single-track sequencer on a polyphonic synth but .. Behringer :)
Whoaaa!! Sounds great!
A very useful review, thanks for posting!
Wonderful helpful review
Best vid about this synth easily. I play electric cello and bass so using effects to shape sound I already know. Your ‘nice’ mike made it possible to hear the buttons keys and sliders being used. I was concerned that the unit is built cheaply and is a bit nasty. You demonstrated this is not the case. I particularly like your demonstration of the keys and the key bed. I’m a synth newbie and your explanations I found easily understandable. I would like to see more reviews from you. You are seriously good at it. You are believable and straight down the line honest.
Thanks! I do like doing reviews, but I haven't bought any synth gear for a long time now (and I'll only review things I buy) so I haven't really had any to do. I have some idea though :)
Excellent hands on review. We agree on probably all points. Did you upgrade to the 12? Would love to try out a 12 or 12D sometimes, since the 6 has its limitations, which we sometimes solved with the effects. For example a long reverb to give the illusion that there are more than 6 voices (or 3 when in 2 voice unison). Another one cool one is using the pitchshifter ("dual pitch") to create fat sounds without using unison.
I didn't bother with the 12 TBH, I don't have a lot of room for anything larger, and already have digital synths that are useful for more chordal polyphony.
Thanks for review. On the matter of aftertouch. You can not expect it to be any given response without looking into 3 things first. (1) the aftertouch curve selected- out of
soft/medium/high (2) the amount of aftertouch routed to any parameter in the menus for a given patch and (3) most difficult of all- the calibration of afertouch in the global settings.
I am not sure if I have done (3) correctly. On exploring mine it seemed the curve was set to medium by default and in (3) the level was 24 per cent which i managed to get up to
70 per cent or so by pushing very hard during the calibration. I assume this is making it more sensitive but have not double checked enough. Anyway these 3 things are what people need to know.
That's a very fair comment, and I found afterwards that by setting the AT response to 'hard' made it much more usable. I haven't looked into the calibration menus yet, but it does seem odd that that it should ever be necessary to press down so hard on a keyboard that it needs two hands to make it reach a particular value.
Hello. There is a further reason for no or not much response. These things usually work by adding to the existing value of the target variable.
So if its already at maximum nothing happens -in the case of this device it allows multiple sources to one destination so you might have already turned something to the maximum or near it when you hit the at.
At the other extreme if the value starts at 0 the at has to push it up
a lot to a noticeable level. But if a knob had say turned it to 25 or something then the at would have more noticeable effect by adding to that level.
This could probably be made better by more scaling of a non linear
nature to the at curves. But thats not given in the menus to date
as its just hard/soft/medium.
It seemed counter intuitive, but yes, setting it to Hard gives the lighter response, and calibrating the aftertouch by pressing hard on a key, gives a lighter response too - which seems totally wrong, because it says it's taking that as the new maximum...
I found a good way is to put my fingers under the keyboard and press down on a white key with my thumb. If I try to just press down on the top, I feel like I'm about to break something, but pressing by gripping hard is easier to control - you're not going to accidentally force a key sideways, doing that.
FWIW, the aftertouch on the Minibrute needs a scary amount of force too, which made me feel better about taking the keyboard off and turning it into a module. AFAIK, that's not adjustable without a soldering iron.
I've now got the aftertouch working at a reasonable pressure. Thanks for the tips, Samuel and Chrissie.
Nice research, thanks!
Update: After upgrading it from firmware 1.1.1 (which it came with) to 1.1.2, I did the Aftertouch calibration again.
This time, I decided it was best to only press it as hard as I intend to press it for full on - which makes more sense, but that didn't seem to work before.
Maybe it was a bug in 1.1.1, or just that I'm quite easily confused... It did seem to work better for pressing harder during the calibration, last time.
Lovey review Chrissie! Super informative!! If you had to choose between this synth and the Microkorg, what would you recommend? I don’t have a ton of money and am looking to make more ambient and harsh noise type pieces? Thank you
Thanks! I don't have any direct experience with the Microkorg so I can't really do a comparison for you. I do think the Deepmind is an excellent synth for ambient work though. It has a lovely dark sound and the effects give it quite a range of expression. The distortions might be good for your harsh noise work too :)
Chrissie Caulfield Tremendous thanks! You’re the best!
The Microkorg is a digital four voice polysynth and this is an analog 6 voice polysynth. Not comparable I'm afraid. The Deepmind has lots of hands-on control of the synth parameters whereas the Microkorg has a fiddly interface that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
@@Claidheambmor I got the DeepMind6 after a lot of consideration, and I'm happy with my first digital synth! Thank you very much tho! Some menu-diving but not too bad!
IEC socket FTW!
Good for you keep experimenting! You'll be surprised what you find
I might have missed it, but once you create a sound can you save it to recall it later? Thank you I enjoyed your video and review🤘🏻
Yes, you can save sounds for later, the 'Write" button will do this. Thanks for watching :)
Is the front panel on this metal or plastic? It's a little hard to tell
I'm pretty sure it's metal. The reason I'm not 100% sure is that I don't actually have the synth any more. But it is quite substantially built
Thanks for the video. One question I have as I'm new to synthesizers, can I control the tuning of individual keys on the board? To do microtonal scales on this synth.
Not on this instrument no. There are some that can but they tend to be expensive I'm afraid. Also a lot of synths that allow individual tuning still enforce octaves - so you only get microtones between octaves (which is not much use if you want (eg) 48 notes in an octave!). There are controllers that do microtones by adding pitch-bend to the notes (eg Roli Seaboard) but again they can be expensive. It's not really my speciality so I'll stop now. But do plenty of research :)
@@ChrissieCaulfield thank you so much for the fast answer 🙂 can you give an example of these expensive synths?
@@yazansarayrah5088 The two I have are the Moog sub37 (though the Phatty's can also do it), and the Yamaha Montage. I'm sure there are others but those are the two I know of.
@@yazansarayrah5088 I just read that the upcoming Waldorf Kyra has "full keyboard microtuning" - so that might be worth looking out for .
@@ChrissieCaulfield I will look for it! Thanks a lot for all the help ❤️ you're a wonderful person
Does this keyboard has in-built speakers?if not then what speakers I should buy to connect to this keyboard?plz guide
No, it doesn't have built-in speakers. It's designed really to connect to a mixer or computer recording interface. Speakers are a huge subject in themselves so I can't really recommend anything - it so much depends on what you want to do, how much space you have, room size, other gear, budget. And that's just for starters!
great video :D
Still want
Does the dm 6 have a mono mode?
Yes, it does
Is it possible to set the delay time via tap tempo?
Not directly, but if the delay is set to a fraction of the master tempo then you can use the tap tempo on that to set it.
@@ChrissieCaulfield thank you!
@@ChrissieCaulfield ok, after a week of deep immersion in this synth, I can confirm it: there's no way to set an usable tap tempo in any of the delays of the unit.
I think it would be clever if Behringer will implement this feature in the next firmware update.
@@umanile Aww that's a real shame. Thanks for reporting back.
@@Ed_Mann I Don't have my unit at the moment so I can't check. But it does look (from the manual) that the various Delay effects can be set to a factor of the master tempo and that can be set by the tap tempo button. Has anyone actually tried this method? (I wish I could now!)
*Great review of a synth which has great potential* - I tried the DM6, but eventually sent it back due to the keybed being really clunky (thought I was just unlucky) and the aftertouch requiring a ridiculous amount of effort to trigger (so seeing yours I wonder if it is a common issue). The key hold button issue also bugged me! The fan noise didn't worry me too much as I believe you can change the settings in the unit to limit its use (useful when recording), however when I tried to record from mine there was a lot of background noise (hiss) on the outputs plus any electrical noise (say caused by switching on another bit of gear) seemed to be amplified by the DM6 and give a loud click on the outputs... not good ! One thing you may or may not have noticed already, but as you go thru the presets many of the sounds are repeated by default... why ?!? It's no big deal to delete these duplicates, but why ship the units in this state ! Talking about sound design the DM6/DM12 editor is very good... when it works; the problem I had was mine would lose connection after every 3rd change (again could just have been a bad unit). So I agree this is a great little synth, generally well built (it really does remind me of the kind of stuff Roland/Korg produced in the early 80's) and capable of making some really nice sounds - in fact I would say of all my synths the FX unit on this device is the best in class ! For now my DM6 has gone, but I think I'll wait a while - let Behringer get any production issues resolved and then look at getting another one at a later date... probably go for the DM12 tho just to have the extra voice capacity (for me 6 voices is not enough for playing those slow lush pads). Anyway interesting to see someones else's experience with this - thanks for sharing. Best Regards, Axel.
Thanks for the comments :) You can tame the aftertouch slightly by setting the curve to 'hard' (oddly), but it's nowhere near as beautifully expressive as my Montage (which, to be fair, was a LOT more expensive). With careful mod-matrix programming it can be made useful.
I hand't noticed the repeated presets - that's a bit of a cheat! But I don't usually use shipped presets much anyway as they rarely do what I need and it's very quick to make what you need with this instrument.
Yep, there is no doubt this device has a lot of options to let you customise and tweak things... apart from the key hold button function of course, grrrr :-) But as you showed in the demo it is very quick and easy to assign things in the mod-matrix, for me this was one of the main attractions. So I will keep watching and see how you get on with the DM6 - I look forward to your next garden jam ! BTW how do you rate the Montage - I watched your indoor jam with it and it sounded great... I keep looking at getting a Montage6, but I already have the MOXF6 and I wonder how much more the Montage would bring me... I'd appreciate any comments you have. Best Regards, Axel.
I *love* the Montage - it's my main keyboard. I've not tried the MOXF so can't compare, but I am really like the FM engine - I think it's the most musical implementation of FM I've yet heard, it sounds fabulous. And the whole synth is so expressive, the keyboard responds so well and all of the controls do too. I did a brief blog about it but it's such an immense instrument it's hard to do it justice! chrissieviolin.wordpress.com/2018/02/18/rpm-challenge-and-yamaha-montage/
Thanks for the feedback - I'll go and take a read of your blog... perfect bedtime reading :-) Best Regards, Axel.
(BTW the MOXF is amazing, so I can only imagine how good the Montage is... my wife won't let me try one - I wonder why !!!!)
whooo the montage is for you rich folks.
i can live in the under a grand just fine.
i have a grip of boards and modules and i am still nowhere near the price of a montage.
i just ordered the dm6.
cant wait
What type of headphones are you using, would you recommend them?
Hi. They are Sennheiser HD25 Mk II headphones and, yes, I would recommend them. I have a few pairs of headphones and these seem the cleanest sound, especially in the lower registers. Don't just take my word for it - I once went on a field recording course with the great Chris Watson and almost everyone else (including him) was using them too!
no music,,,,
Sounds like a catch a cold IC chip , as always with Behringer ......almost. Buy a real annalog synth and the 'almosts' are left for 'almost' musici.The selling trick "analog" , the filters are before the digital effects (reverb and chorus).The most sounds are thicken with digital reverb.Buy yourselve a Yamaha cs1x / cs2x for 200euro and 500euro is left......almost. Or wait a few months to buy this Behringer , the whole mess of compressors / denoisers / headphone amps together with this synth are massive on a 2e hands for 'get 2 pay 1' .
nice one! i am thinking about this :)