What poisons the conversation is that, so often, the people saying books 'shouldn't be political' are really saying they're tired of books containing politics they don't agree with. They're really quite happy for books to be political but there's too much left (or right) politics in the things they like to read for them. I have no patience for that particular position.
George Orwell wrote an essay on Dickens in which he wrote that, "All art is propaganda...On the other hand, not all propaganda is art." What he meant by this is that artists imbue their art consciously and unconsciously with political content, with "message". However, the corollary does not hold; political messaging on its own is not art. There are people who dislike the political message they interpret in a work of art. For them I agree with your stance: if you don't like it, don't read it. However, there are people who object to being fed propaganda, to have the pop culture around them overriden artlessly by hamfisted activists. Responding with "All art is political." doesn't address the problem when what's presented is not art but propaganda.
You've hit the nail on the head with it being more about silencing a politics they don't agree with. Censoring these books is itself a political act. And I really hear and argument otherwise that isn't just disingenuous talking points dancing around their real agenda.
Very well articulated, as always. I agree with everything you said, and you hit the nail on the head with what makes reading such an exceptionally fun yet educational hobby. I think I have learned more from the books I have read than the majority of my classes in school, and I will always continue to seek out stories that challenge me intellectually and emotionally. That said, I do save some books for specific moods and I always love a good pure braincandy book as well. Thanks for sharing!
I definitely share a similar experience to you as well with books teaching me more. And this is also what I love about reading across genres, there’s something for everyone and every mood!
Enjoyed listening to this. One thing I see a lot is people conflating a character's perspective or politics with that of the author, which is not always the case.
All for a of art is inherently political whether people choose to use it as escapism as not. I think people are getting mad at other readers pointing out how the books they used to escape from the world are indeed political as well. Even romance is political women didn’t always have choice on who they date, marry or had intimacy with. Let alone were they able to read literature about sexual/romantic relationships. Even now in the US with women bodily autonomy and no fault divorce on the front of political issues, many women are choosing to not engage in romantic relationships. So much more is political than a lot of booktok is aware of and hopefully one day they will realize that.
Exactly. Well said. I also think people, perhaps, just don’t like to admit they like some books because they agree with the politics undertones, but that different from their political ideologies? I find that more and more people are so intent on believing one thing that they completely shut down on anything else.
Great video and I'm glad you've covered this issue, which I thought you handled really well. There's a reason why books get banned and it's because writing is an inherently political creative act. It's impossible to separate the author from the book from that perspective.
Wholeheartedly agree that books can help us explore realities, points of views, and ideas that we may not be close to, may be very different to our reality, or highly speculative--and to me, this is especially true in speculative fiction (like, that's the whole point of the genre, isn't it?) I love how you put it--human experience informs what we write, and that's our inherent bias, right? We are political beings by nature because we live in societies, organised and ruled through political power (although at this level of abstraction is has nothing to do with ideology). I think that a lot of the angst about politics in books is when the ideology of the reader clashes with the * perceived * ideology of the writer (e.g., LeGuin's The Dispossessed is a thorough analysis of an anarchy, but that doesn't mean LeGuin herself was an anarchist). However, I also think it's a matter of presentation, some authors can be quite "in your face" when presenting specific elements of their worldbuilding that lean towards ideology... and that always rattles readers. That said, I also think that politics are inherent to worldbuilding, which is a fundamental part of scifi/fantasy... otherwise, the worldbuilding isn't believable and ends up lacking depth. Likewise, as you said, specific subgenres are about the human experience (e.g., dystopias, military fantasy) and so should have, by definition, political connotations. I'm so sorry for the essay-like comment. I do have a question though: can I do a follow up video on this on my post? I'll tag you of course, but you really gave me a lot of ideas I want to dive deep into!
@@liviajelliot so sorry for the delay, this week has been so busy. Of course you can! Please do! I agree with everything you’ve written. Please share your video with me when it’s done!
So not just books but stories in general that are told nowadays that are accused of being "political" are simultaneously poorly told/written and people conflate bad storytelling with "being political" lmao. Arcane on Netflix is a great recent example of a show that hardly anybody complains about (at least for season 1, I believe season 2 has been a little more divisive lol). I see a lot of people complain about "woke" this and that, but the same people who complain about wokeness are also huge fans of S1 Arcane despite the fact that Arcane is the most "woke" show ever lol and the reason why is because Arcane is a really well told story. For me, I see the problem fundamentally is that we have a problem nowadays with bad stories being published as books, film, video games, etc. but everyone just interprets it as "shoving politics down our throat" when in fact literally every story good or bad has politics front and center. The moment two characters interact in a story, a political statement is being made by the author. It might be subtle, it might be metaphorical, it might not even be the authorial intent to make such a statement, but the politics is there nonetheless. Is the hero of your story a righteous hero-king? Congrats, your story is pro-monarchy (even if that wasn't your intention lol). Is the big bad of your story the evil emperor obsessed with power? Congrats, your story is an indictment against imperialism (again, that's true even if it was not your intention when writing the story in the first place lol)
Reminds me of Star Wars and X-men fans. Those stories were always political in the first place yet people complain about the newer adaptations being bad because they are political instead of criticizing the actual storytelling. I also think the word “woke” should die personally because it has lost all its meaning and nowadays people use it so much instead of providing constructive criticism.
Yeah totally agree, just wanted to keep the conversation focussed on books. Video games, music, all art tbh, are all political in some way. What you wrote about Arcane reminds me of the backlash after the latest Ghost of Tsushima game was announced earlier this year. People are so intent on their hatred for women that they can’t even look beyond historical fact. Also same applies to the latest Assassin’s Creed game, with Yasuke and black people.
I think some people use the word political to describe hamfisted references to modern controversies. Others just want escapism. I guess it depends on who is saying it. And As usual, the discussion lacks conceptual clarity.
I don't think fiction should be overtly political...unless that's the whole point of the book. A great example of political views/themes was Ursula Le Guin's The Dispossessed; I went into that book knowing that she was left leaning but it was a very balanced book that left it to the reader to think about the two different societies without making any judgemental claims - contrast this with some of Stephen King's more recent offerings where he uses his novels as a vehicle to spout his political opinions as facts which takes the reader out of the story and shows him to be an angry old man with an axe to grind...I can understand some people saying books shouldn't be political when someone like King delivers his 'points' with all the deftness of a chainsaw; but it can be done well and as you alluded to politics is a fact of life and part of the human experience.
I agree with this. I’ve talked about this before with authors like Abercrombie as well. It’s clear there is an undertone of politics but there isn’t one side that’s favoured.
As long as the politics and ideologies don't precede the story and writing it's fine. I think putting all that stuff first cancels the human part of the story. Even in nonfiction, unless you're writing a statement, but otherwise politics should be sitting in the background drinking some beer at a party where it was reluctantly invited. D'you know what I mean?
You’re conflating “political” with politically dogmatic. Books can be political, but they shouldn’t be dogmatic, ideologically prescriptive, or reductive. At least, not if they want to be good.
No, I’m not conflating them. The person who made this claim wasn’t talking about extremes. She was saying that all politics, regardless of the severity, shouldn’t be in books. I don’t think any of the examples I gave in this video would be considered dogmatic.
Your voice is so lovely. If you recorded audiobooks, I'd listen to em all! And the content of this video is essential and well articulated. Subbing as I type 🫶🏻
What poisons the conversation is that, so often, the people saying books 'shouldn't be political' are really saying they're tired of books containing politics they don't agree with. They're really quite happy for books to be political but there's too much left (or right) politics in the things they like to read for them.
I have no patience for that particular position.
So true. I’m with you on this, Joe!
George Orwell wrote an essay on Dickens in which he wrote that, "All art is propaganda...On the other hand, not all propaganda is art."
What he meant by this is that artists imbue their art consciously and unconsciously with political content, with "message".
However, the corollary does not hold; political messaging on its own is not art.
There are people who dislike the political message they interpret in a work of art. For them I agree with your stance: if you don't like it, don't read it.
However, there are people who object to being fed propaganda, to have the pop culture around them overriden artlessly by hamfisted activists. Responding with "All art is political." doesn't address the problem when what's presented is not art but propaganda.
Cool, I’m going to check this out. Thanks for sharing, I wasn’t aware of this.
You've hit the nail on the head with it being more about silencing a politics they don't agree with. Censoring these books is itself a political act. And I really hear and argument otherwise that isn't just disingenuous talking points dancing around their real agenda.
Yeah, exactly. It just all seems like a way to project a specific agenda.
Excellent video. Agree with you on every point. If books weren’t political, they wouldn’t get banned.
Well said.
Very well articulated, as always. I agree with everything you said, and you hit the nail on the head with what makes reading such an exceptionally fun yet educational hobby. I think I have learned more from the books I have read than the majority of my classes in school, and I will always continue to seek out stories that challenge me intellectually and emotionally. That said, I do save some books for specific moods and I always love a good pure braincandy book as well. Thanks for sharing!
I definitely share a similar experience to you as well with books teaching me more. And this is also what I love about reading across genres, there’s something for everyone and every mood!
If books are not political they would be BORING 😮💨
100% agree. I love this type of video; keep them coming 😊
You’ve got it!
Enjoyed listening to this. One thing I see a lot is people conflating a character's perspective or politics with that of the author, which is not always the case.
Very true.
All for a of art is inherently political whether people choose to use it as escapism as not. I think people are getting mad at other readers pointing out how the books they used to escape from the world are indeed political as well. Even romance is political women didn’t always have choice on who they date, marry or had intimacy with. Let alone were they able to read literature about sexual/romantic relationships. Even now in the US with women bodily autonomy and no fault divorce on the front of political issues, many women are choosing to not engage in romantic relationships. So much more is political than a lot of booktok is aware of and hopefully one day they will realize that.
Exactly. Well said. I also think people, perhaps, just don’t like to admit they like some books because they agree with the politics undertones, but that different from their political ideologies? I find that more and more people are so intent on believing one thing that they completely shut down on anything else.
@ I definitely see that!
Great video and I'm glad you've covered this issue, which I thought you handled really well. There's a reason why books get banned and it's because writing is an inherently political creative act. It's impossible to separate the author from the book from that perspective.
Sorry for the delay Tim, I thought I had replied. I’m glad to hear you enjoyed the video! Totally agree with you as well.
Wholeheartedly agree that books can help us explore realities, points of views, and ideas that we may not be close to, may be very different to our reality, or highly speculative--and to me, this is especially true in speculative fiction (like, that's the whole point of the genre, isn't it?) I love how you put it--human experience informs what we write, and that's our inherent bias, right? We are political beings by nature because we live in societies, organised and ruled through political power (although at this level of abstraction is has nothing to do with ideology).
I think that a lot of the angst about politics in books is when the ideology of the reader clashes with the * perceived * ideology of the writer (e.g., LeGuin's The Dispossessed is a thorough analysis of an anarchy, but that doesn't mean LeGuin herself was an anarchist). However, I also think it's a matter of presentation, some authors can be quite "in your face" when presenting specific elements of their worldbuilding that lean towards ideology... and that always rattles readers.
That said, I also think that politics are inherent to worldbuilding, which is a fundamental part of scifi/fantasy... otherwise, the worldbuilding isn't believable and ends up lacking depth. Likewise, as you said, specific subgenres are about the human experience (e.g., dystopias, military fantasy) and so should have, by definition, political connotations.
I'm so sorry for the essay-like comment. I do have a question though: can I do a follow up video on this on my post? I'll tag you of course, but you really gave me a lot of ideas I want to dive deep into!
@@liviajelliot so sorry for the delay, this week has been so busy. Of course you can! Please do! I agree with everything you’ve written. Please share your video with me when it’s done!
@@bookswithzara Will do! Thanks!!
So not just books but stories in general that are told nowadays that are accused of being "political" are simultaneously poorly told/written and people conflate bad storytelling with "being political" lmao. Arcane on Netflix is a great recent example of a show that hardly anybody complains about (at least for season 1, I believe season 2 has been a little more divisive lol). I see a lot of people complain about "woke" this and that, but the same people who complain about wokeness are also huge fans of S1 Arcane despite the fact that Arcane is the most "woke" show ever lol and the reason why is because Arcane is a really well told story. For me, I see the problem fundamentally is that we have a problem nowadays with bad stories being published as books, film, video games, etc. but everyone just interprets it as "shoving politics down our throat" when in fact literally every story good or bad has politics front and center.
The moment two characters interact in a story, a political statement is being made by the author. It might be subtle, it might be metaphorical, it might not even be the authorial intent to make such a statement, but the politics is there nonetheless. Is the hero of your story a righteous hero-king? Congrats, your story is pro-monarchy (even if that wasn't your intention lol). Is the big bad of your story the evil emperor obsessed with power? Congrats, your story is an indictment against imperialism (again, that's true even if it was not your intention when writing the story in the first place lol)
Reminds me of Star Wars and X-men fans. Those stories were always political in the first place yet people complain about the newer adaptations being bad because they are political instead of criticizing the actual storytelling. I also think the word “woke” should die personally because it has lost all its meaning and nowadays people use it so much instead of providing constructive criticism.
Yeah totally agree, just wanted to keep the conversation focussed on books. Video games, music, all art tbh, are all political in some way.
What you wrote about Arcane reminds me of the backlash after the latest Ghost of Tsushima game was announced earlier this year. People are so intent on their hatred for women that they can’t even look beyond historical fact. Also same applies to the latest Assassin’s Creed game, with Yasuke and black people.
I think some people use the word political to describe hamfisted references to modern controversies. Others just want escapism. I guess it depends on who is saying it. And As usual, the discussion lacks conceptual clarity.
I don't think fiction should be overtly political...unless that's the whole point of the book. A great example of political views/themes was Ursula Le Guin's The Dispossessed; I went into that book knowing that she was left leaning but it was a very balanced book that left it to the reader to think about the two different societies without making any judgemental claims - contrast this with some of Stephen King's more recent offerings where he uses his novels as a vehicle to spout his political opinions as facts which takes the reader out of the story and shows him to be an angry old man with an axe to grind...I can understand some people saying books shouldn't be political when someone like King delivers his 'points' with all the deftness of a chainsaw; but it can be done well and as you alluded to politics is a fact of life and part of the human experience.
I agree with this. I’ve talked about this before with authors like Abercrombie as well. It’s clear there is an undertone of politics but there isn’t one side that’s favoured.
As long as the politics and ideologies don't precede the story and writing it's fine. I think putting all that stuff first cancels the human part of the story. Even in nonfiction, unless you're writing a statement, but otherwise politics should be sitting in the background drinking some beer at a party where it was reluctantly invited. D'you know what I mean?
I get what you mean. I think that would also just be bad writing.
@bookswithzara Maybe 🤔🤔🤔
You’re conflating “political” with politically dogmatic. Books can be political, but they shouldn’t be dogmatic, ideologically prescriptive, or reductive. At least, not if they want to be good.
No, I’m not conflating them. The person who made this claim wasn’t talking about extremes. She was saying that all politics, regardless of the severity, shouldn’t be in books. I don’t think any of the examples I gave in this video would be considered dogmatic.
Your voice is so lovely. If you recorded audiobooks, I'd listen to em all! And the content of this video is essential and well articulated. Subbing as I type 🫶🏻
Thank you! I’m working on it :)