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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- Review and teardown of the 8 channel Saleae USB Logic Analyser.
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You forgot to uncheck "Autobaud detect" after you changed it to 19200, that's why it didn't work
Dave, just ran across your EEVblogs a couple of weeks back. I've watched a few & enjoy them. I'm somewhat envious; you've got a nice lab bench with some cool test equipment, and you know your stuff. I like the fact you tell it like it is. I subscribed.
Great review Dave, really enjoyed it!
I know nothing of electronics. I still watch most of your videos all the way through.
you're so engaging.
I like mini-B. MiniB is more rugged, microB alwas feels like the "tounge" of the usb slot might break any second XD
Nowadays USB Type C should be used...
Антон Южаков this was over 3 years ago... Lol
Hence "Nowadays".
@Abu Misir how so?
@Abu Misir more products have USB-C and it is here to stay, no point in waiting till every bottom of the range device would have it.
As a n00b/hobbyist, I purchased the 16 channel version, and LOVE it - it may not have all the fancy triggering Dave wants to see - but for my purposes, it's perfect.
Its Jan 2018 and it looks like they have invested a lot more into their products. They have changed dramatically as well as the software adding functionality that Dave was mentioning as well as they have doubled the prices. Though, the units look far more professional and far from hobbyish or home-gammer.
I've been using one of these for quite a while to debug serial, SPI, etc. from microcontrollers, Netduino, Gadgeteer, etc. The ability to have plug-ins for protocols is also great. Love this device for the price.
The GPIF interface on the Cypress FX2 part is pretty neat. You can basically create a 48Mbps data pump to/from a parallel bus to the USB engine. You can set up all sorts of parameters about how the bus behaves, set up transfers, and it basically all happens without any hand-holding from the 8051. I was doing all kinds of stuff with it back in the early 2000s, IDE drive interfaces, PCMCIA card interfaces, etc.
Perfect test.
Thank you.
I just bought one of the new logic8 devices which seem to use a Spartan 6 FPGA for sampling instead of the cheap usb chip from cypress and they achieve a much higher sampling rate now. Also the software has greatly evolved, I really like it, many more protocols can be decoded now and you can search for particular data.
No matter how much evolved it's got, It still can't do the basics like pattern triggering or real-time spooling. You can't even pattern search after the fact either making this useless for serious work.
I got one of the new red Saleae Logic Pro 16 devices, and the software has come a LONG way since this video was produced. Recommend taking another look, if you can get your hands on the new hardware soon.
Still doesn't do pattern triggering which is essential.. or even pattern searching after the fact.
Their pricing policy has changed dramatically since 3 years ago.
@@kasa6468 much more expensive. But you also get discounts if you are startup company, maker who is not making profit or student or similar
The device is entirely fit for purpose. I'm not doing super high speed breakthrough tech stuff here.. I'm just trying to make sure my two bits and twig are in order. The affordable tools available today for the average joe tinkerer to create incredibly complex and responsive systems is mindblowing compared to how it used to be.
Awesome review
Great review thank you. Gut feeling is the use mini usb rather than micro because they seem to me at least to be more robust to the cable being yanked. Having said that most problems I have found have been the smd connections on the micro usb. I have to say I agree its pretty questionable without any trigger word setup
I agree. I think it may have to do with RS-232 (and other serial protocols?) inverting the voltage such that 3v to 15v = 0 and -3v to -15v = 1. Since he's already correctly receiving the inverted signal, I believe he could just change the polarity in the analyzer settings and all would be well.
Very interresting! Thank you
I like that you are very critiquing in your product reviews. Can you do a video on Sigrok software?
I've had one for a while and it's something I use every now and again, and I've never actually thought about searching for a packet/byte or trigging off a certain address access, and it's something I hope they listen about and add it in as it would make it even better. That said, it's something that I wish I had when I was developing a project a couple of years ago as it would have saved me some hair pulling.
love your TSHIRTS!
The little pocket on the front of your pants that your watch (fob watch, can still buy them) used to go in back in the olden days.
The Chinese Saleae clones have the input buffer in form of a 74HC245 chip, they also have the EEPROM chip that holds PID/VID, so they easily can be made to work with other software (USBee, Altera Byte Blaster).
The 245 is just an 8 bit buffer, so all that would add is safety, in that if you zap the device, you'll just take out the 245, not the controller.
Just got to the end of your video. Yes the Saleae software is quite minimal. We plan for sigrok's PulseView to provide all the features you might have hoped to see within the coming months/years. It's definitely possible to do live decoding, decode-triggering and free-running capture on these devices. It's all coming.
I think you left the autobaud ticked - maybe that's why.
Did you select the right polarity?
Great review. With you poking at the hardware and questioning the manufacturer's design choices, you're like the Steve Irwin of the Elec Eng world!
Mini USB works really well for applications like this. For me, Micro USB seems to fall out a little easier.
Exactly I hate micro usb. The cables constantly fail. I always have to hack up cables because the damn cables always fail.
For micro USB plugs falling out it depends heavily on the socket, from my experience. Some sockets don't hold well, others hold great.
If you are analyzing your own design, you could use one output as a comparator between the logic value you need and use as a trigger... Is not as "friendly", but is much better as not having anything :)
I love mine. I did burn it out so I immediately ordered another one.
There are some kinks in the software perhaps, but it has saved me days of work with
its serial protocol analyzers and easy time measurements.
Update. Been unemployed for about a year. I decided I'd have to create a home lab for freelancing, so I went to Saleae to pick one of these up. $399 for the 8 channel!!! Crap. From "reasonable profit" to "what the market will bear" pricing. For a tool I need 2 or 3 times a year, no thanks.
Excellent review :) What are some of the comparable logic analyzers with some of the features that you were hoping for? Like more trigger features.
I recall it being the 16 channel one? It's been so long ago I have forgotten. so I was guessing.
Yep was just checking out the site. Lots of info on there. Will try out the software next time I'm on a linux pc.
I have had my Logic 16 for quite a while now and had occasion to pull it out last week. I grabbed the new software and its an improvement. I see that the Logic 16 is no longer available, and they have a new product line that is apparently more capable, but quite a bit more pricy! The new Logic 16 pro (or whatever) is $US 600!!! I thought the price for my Logic 16 was okay, but I doubt I would pay current prices.
After listening to about 40 AmpHour(and a half) episodes it's good to see your face again.
It's been a long time. You may want to review the current software, seems to have trigger on PW and search between trigger events. You can also search data in the protocol analyzer. Now the accuracy problems you had may be another story. Seems to fit my needs spot on, and fits in the laptop bag just fine. :-)
Please could you make a review of the newer Logic 8 version they released last year?
Now THAT'S something!
an 11$ chip for hundreds of dollars in current year. SMH
At 33:19, when you trying to get work the async serial UART, actually you have the polarity wrong. Normally (RS232) the signal is idle high. You're feeding an inverted signal to the analyzer, but not changed the polarity in settings.
+Tomas B No you are wrong ;) RS232 is idle low (-5~12v), active high (+5~12v). It's a logic-level UART that idles high (Vcc) and active low (GND).
a USB 3.1 logic analyzer might be nice
huge speed/bandwidth
New subscriber. Got an MS EE a few decades ago, worked as a research geophysicist and never wired anything beyond a light bulb since school. I may well have been in the last class to use tubes! lol
I find the entry barriers to hobbyists have been destroyed with Arduino other open software developers simply astounding! Thanks for the great videos!
BTW, can the little analyzer analyze itself, or does that result in some sort of black hole? lol
Cheers
I have one of these (16 channel version), extremely useful bit of kit.
Awesome, is that a relatively recent thing? I seem to recall looking when I first got mine a couple years ago and didn't come across one.
I got this thing. i love it. Mine has a spartan fgpa in it though. The buffer is incredible.
which one is that? I'm assuming the 16 channel one?
LeiserGeist I actually just got an 8-Channel one, back when they were first available. I do a lot of SPI bus work, and they work great for that.
I love mine too. Helped me figure out my bad coding of I2c and 1 wire. Worth it for me. Logic8 RED case.
Apparently on this you can set "Trigger definition bytes", which is bit patterns the analyser looks for to trigger on. I think Sparkfun did a tutorial on this a while back, but I can't seem to find it :(
4:05 Where did the 510R value of the series input resistors come from?
The purpose of series input resistors like those is generally to limit current through the clamp diodes. The resistor value needs to be high enough such that at the maximum input voltage which the product is specified to be protected against (say it is able to withstand +12V accidentally being applied to the inputs without damage), the clamp diodes do not exceed their maximum current ratings. At the same time, the resistor value needs to be low enough to not limit the bandwidth of the signal since a 1-st order filter will be formed from the resistor and the combination of the clamp diode + MCU IO pin capacitance.
the software has come so far now!
I was not surprised We found a PSoC from Cypress in there. These are powerful little beasts.
I looked at this last year and decided it was too slow to be used for me....nice to see things being pointed out that I missed...
And i got to thank you for the saleae review. As a hobbyist I've been after some logic analyzer and especially been eyeing logic8. Could you talk about entry level options that us student budjet hobbyists could get most bang for the buck. I thought that the software in saleae would have been at least epic, but as you point out it had quite much drawbacks.
It's been quite a few years since this review but I've only just seen this video in 2021. Checking with Saleae, it seems they've added a way to trigger on packet data. I'm not sure if this is what you had in mind though. Time for another review of the software?
Might be interesting to see an update on this one. :)
Yes, a lot has happened. Everything is much more refined, I am really happy with mine. Also, it is available in Ferrari red nowadays ;)
nice. I've always wondered how boards are made professionally.
The Saleae API is also pretty nice. Writing a MIDI dissector was pretty easy.
Today I've got my Saleae Chinese version in the mail, and you know what it works with the Saleae software :) and its only 10% of the price, ok it doesn't has a fancy metal casing but hey. It works :=)
if they knew, they never send you the sample!!, thanks for saving our money dave!
Must be 2.4Mhz to PLL X 20 = 48Mhz. But I see 24Mhz xtal, maybe 20 X 24 = 480Mhz?
The FIFO is max. 160Mhz clock speed in burst with latest AS logic. Am I wrong?
I wonder how this Saleae software compares to the open source Sigrok software - also there is
Nice info thank you !
May Dave & Forum can rebuild this thing new. With DSP & FPA & Analog. Front-End.
May there is a Api Interface via DLL or Script , where you can trigger for special value and points of data.
Or even a Mathlab Interface ?? .
Ein echter Hardware -Schrauber.
Dave you should take a look at sigrok. We've been supporting the Logic, USBee devices, and similar low-cost chinese devices with an open firmware for quite some time. sigrok is a young but growing project. We've already enabled all kinds of exciting possibilities for signal capture and decoding with open source software.
Just had a look at the board inside my clone. No diode protection, but it does have a HC245 between the pins and chip inputs.
Heh. I was mistaken, but probably not the way you'd expect. Intel have made 80586 chips - in the Atom family! The pictures I found show they are marked '07, but I'm not sure when they were introduced.
Could you do a video tutorial about UART serial communication
Yep, I don't get why it matters either. Maybe to a young whipper-snapper that first had a 486 and thinks it's old-sckool important ?
at 33:05 when you set the baud rate, you left the box checked for auto-baud, thus the continued framing errors. of course you probably figured that out at some point in the past 4 years lol. hopefully they upgraded their triggering capabilities in that time too, seeing as its all software anyways
Dave, What is the ruler you use at the start, and were can it be bought from?
Hi, great video, thanks!
Hovewer it's been a while, what about to try the new Saleae Logic Pro 16?
Maybe it could be interesting to compare it with it's cheap Aliexpress clones :)
A Mini USB connector is physically more robust and able to sustain more abuse without damage. I am exceptionally hard on equipment and it's connectors. I've never had a USB micro jack break or fail on a bit of kit. I have however broken a handful of USB micro jacks clean off the board. The level of care required to mate a USB micro jack, as to prevent damage, is much higher than that of a USB mini jack. For a small bit of kit that a person travels around with, having robust and reliable connectors on it is a must!
You change settings on one tab and it doesn't change on the other tab. Isn't that the whole point of tabs?
Edit: Should've finished watching before I commented :p
The OLS can do higher make sample rate, and samples to an internal data buffer. It can't do endless capture like FX2 devices, because data is downloaded after the fact over a crappy serial over usb link via a PIC.
Why this comment got so many negative votes? He just mentioned about an alternative product that is cheaper. If this is not acceptable then don't buy. He did not say anything against Dave or his video.
Di Dave. regarding the serial capture data decoding, your serial signal seems to have positive start and stop pulses. Notmal serial data has a "mark" as a start, and a "space" as a stop bit. Your serial data is wierd - there actually ARE faming errors. Also, your data polarity is set incorrectly in the capture software.
Love that PCB ruler! => 1:31
Loved the video, a small correction at 9:10, that is a GPIF interface, not GPIO.
30:46 However there is no way to import data back! It would be very nice to import Triggered CSV data from a traditional scope and be able to only use the software without any additional hardware...!
EEVblog
@ 2:11
Because micro usb is fragile and is usually the first thing to break when you are on the go and plugging and unplugging stuff a lot.
*****
Until a solder joint breaks. Breaking a solder connection only requires 1 cycle of bad handling out of those 10,000 cycles. Mini-usb is connected to the PCB much more securely.
ty_ger
Totally agree. Happened with my Nokia N900 twice...
+ty_ger uhm... are we really arguing the mounting method versus the connection type? yup. Carry on then.
+JimmyDB I am confused. What is your point? EEVblog was wonder why they used Mini-B instead of Micro USB. I stated they used Mini-B because the connector is less fragile and will last longer. "The connector" is the WHOLE package of course because if it isn't soldered to the circuit board any more, it isn't much of a connector, is it? The product is designed for being used in the field ("on the go").
So...? What are you talking about? How is a broken solder joint on a Micro USB more useful than a non-broken Mini-B?
+ty_ger My point is that you can get different mounting types for each connector type. Just because it is a micro USB doesn't mean it has to have a weaker connection to the board than a mini USB. There are mini USB connectors that are lacking mechanical mounting compared to some micro USB. However, if the designer doesn't understand mechanical mounting then they might be prone to select a connector with poor mechanical connectivity.
There is a clone on Ebay for around 10 dollars :D
Dave, when will we see the pacemaker's teardown... i'm dying to see it! Hellos and best wishes from Macedonia!
Some day you need to evaluate the "ultimate" in technology: That red Harbor Freight multimeter that they offer for free with any purchase. I think it regularly sells for $US 6, otherwise.
It's been torn down more than once on this channel, just under different branding. I believe all-sun OEMs the unit and for the money (sometimes none at all) It's Joe Homeowners best friend. Naturally it gets no respect on a technicians work bench, but if you're Joe you can test fuses, outlets, doorbell switches, HVAC voltages, your cars charging system, and so forth. It's really built for that guy and works great.
FWIW, the beta version of the software supports more analyzers including JTAG. It works well for my JTAG needs.
I've got one of the $10 clones, and after using the software, I think if I find myself using it often enough, I'll be getting a legit one :) Very reasonable price (the value really is in the software).
Congrats to your 486th video, next congrats will be another 100 videos away :) Thumbs up !
I got one a couple of years ago, and they seem to have re-designed the case. Mine is all aluminum. I guess they're cutting costs there by using a plastic lid now.
Can you revisit this topic and try Pulseview?
Yeah, unless I plain missed it?
A GTL2003 on the input would've enabled the logic analyzer to interface signals down to 0.8V and up to 5V.
If you download the latest beat version of the software it includes PS2 and JTAG along with some other analysers as well I think.
Do you still feel the same ... software improvement? Other manufactures model?
The USBee products do have most of the features you think should be included. The equivalent of the Saleae is the USBee ZX ($495). The free software that comes with it is on par with Saleae - the professional software with all the good features is another $299... Did I mention it uses the same Cypress Semi chip? :)
I have both the Saleae Logic and a clone I got on DealExtreme for $11. The only difference seems to be the additional 74HC245 on the clone (for "input protection" purposes i guess). The clone came with the USBee AX firmware but I replaced it with Saleae's since theyre software looks awful.
intel 80486 microprocessor, was in one of the first x86 CPU with pipelining also first with more than 1 000 000 transistors
Can you please review an AOYUE-2702A+ Lead Free Repairing System.
Thank you
At 33:00 you left Use Autobaud checked after manually entering the rate. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose and explain why you still saw framing errors?
In fact, with a small eeprom value change, you can convert a salae into a USBee and vice versa... FW is loaded onto the device on the fly.
What is inside that micro controller? Is it like a silicon chip? Is a micro controller, cpu, IC, chipset, are those ALL just terms for a silicon chip? Thanks.
Hi dave, this is actually the first time i was thinking that you were off in any topic, when you said that you would prefer micro usb rather than mini usb. My point for liking mini usb is that connectors are bigger and the footprint is same with mini and micro, so whats the point of making it more fragile and losing width in contacts? I could agree that micro usb stays connected better than mini, but I'd choose few unwanted disconnections,rather than breaking entire jack or tearing coppers off
this support 8 analog channel? Saleae Logic 8 find support for 8 analog specification. Review have?
It's the same with scopes. It's the trigger options that set the different devices apart. Even cheap ones can get accurate traces on screen. But that's no use if the part you're looking for is somewhere in these millions of samples and there's no way to search for them or only capture the important data in the first place.
@7:08 What are diode clamps?
Maybe nice to know for some: There is acutally a 4$ board based on this chip which can work as a Logic analyzer with some free software !