Future video suggestion... As I am researching my options for replacing my existing Package unit with something new and I came across something that may need some clarification. The type of refrigerant that is current and some of the systems that still are promoting older types. I seen some for use with R410A, R454b, I believe there was one other and some did not mention the type at all. R454b must be the latest type. If my memory serves me right, one of the refrigerant types was a flammable gas where as the others were not. I would venture to say that the older ones are probably being discounted for a close out. Are you aware of any cut off date for when the unsold older units can no longer be sold? I would think that the older type refrigerants will be discontinued and of course price gouging would go into affect? Your thoughts on if I should eliminate the older types from my possible selection? Any professional reviews on the newer refrigerants? Your thoughts please Thanks
Freon is somewhat of a complicated topic because the EPA does not me it easy. There is a two pronged approach to the phase out. The first is the reduction in 410A and the second is the regulatory changes to what manufactures can sell. 410A which is the freon that is in wide use and there are going to be product cuts to it over the upcoming years. • 2022 - 10% Reduction In Over All Production • 2024 - 40% Reduction In Over All Production • 2029 - 70% Reduction In Over All Production • 2034 - 80% Reduction In Over All Production • 2036 - 85% Reduction In Over All Production So, it’s going to follow a similar phase out as R22. So 410a with going to be around for a while, however pricing is going to go up as production gets slashed. In regard to equipment regulations, in 2025 manufactures will not be allowed to sell equipment that uses 410a. Most manufactures are going to move over to R454B which should endure future scrutiny from the EPA for many years. Daikin, Amana, and Goodman are going to R32 which the EPA will most likely phase out in the next 7 years because it doesn’t look like its going to be able to hold up to future regulations in the pipeline. R454B and R32 have both been classified as flammable. So that changes the standards that are used for storage and equipment design. The new equipment will all come with sensers, so if it starts to since freon levels are low the equipment is going to shut off. Due to this the equipment cost is going to be higher than 410a equipment. Much like in 2022 with Seer2, the EPA has not finalize all the changes yet. Some manufacturers took a really big hit when they made some last-minute changes to Seer2 standards. So many factories have not ramped up the production of the equipment for the new Freon. I’m not expecting the new freon equipment to be readily available till mid-year, so close to July. 410A Pros • Equipment has been around a long time and is tried and true. • The 410a equipment will be cheaper Cons • Future freon cost will going to go up like R22 R454B and R32 Pros • Freon cost will stay low Cons • The equipment will cost more • Theres going to be added sensors and potentially additional maintenance required Hope this helps!
Senville, is one of the companies that does not mention the type of Freon used and they do have a 5 star 83% approval rating in some reviews that I have looked at. After contacting their support, they said that "ALL" their systems use 410a. As I look at their advertisements, I see some of their HVAC split systems are now going on sale, maybe to clear house for a new series of HVAC systems that will be using the R454B or some other type. My next question that I have is, compared to R22 systems, how does the 410a/R454B Freon systems performance stack up against the R22. Like comparing identical 30K Btu systems against each other. Now that would be interesting. Great for a video! Which leads me to the ultimate question, do I just skip the 410A systems and wait for the R454B to become more available in the market place with hopes that the pricing will come down on new purchases. Maybe I should purchase a tank of 410A Freon, before that gets restrictions placed on the sale, as a backup supply, just in case. Still hoping to get another year out of the old package unit. Oh, Senville is a company owned by GD Media, founded in 1968 and has over 70K employees with a major group in the R&D of HVAC. Just one of the many that I am reviewing. Thanks for your input @@atlasacrepair
Unfortunately, it's common for prices in our service area to exceed ours by more than double. This is why I always recommend two, and sometimes even three, additional quotes. After all, someone has to foot the bill for those NASCAR sponsorships.
I called a local company that my parents had been doing business with for 30 years and asked them to come change out the gas exhaust blower motor, which had trash in it or the bearing was going bad in. Guy comes out and spends 2 minutes looking at the front, with the cover off and tells me that I needed a new $$$y$tem. I told him about it only needing a gas exhaust blower or just needed to be cleaned out, and he says the part Is impossible to get and is rebuilt, so it wouldn't last any time. I told him I'd think about it, and then they had the gaul to send me an 80 dollar bill for an infomercial. I was incensed. That was 3 years ago and the system is still running fine, with the trash noise in the exhaust system. I'll name the company if you allow it.
Man, so sorry to heat about your experience, its sad to hear what this industry is coming to. I do my best not to bash other companies, but I also believe in full transparency and free speech so if you'd like to share their name, you're more than welcome to!
Kennith, the Plumbing industry I believe is right up there if not #1 with Electrical contractors. Home repair and HVAC are also with them. Two years ago my main home sewer pipe to the street collapsed. The house was built in 1957 and that was the last year for sewer pipes that were made from some kind of tar/paper/cardboard material. Two different plumbers wanted 6 and 7 grand to replace 70' of 4" PVC which is 18" under ground. I priced out the parts and it totaled less than $300 for all the parts. I purchased them and the lawn guy trenched and installed the pipe for $900 (he gave me the price). He took less than 1 day where the plumber wanted to do it in 2.5 days. As for Electrical work, last year I contracted an Electrical contracting company ( least expensive of 3) to change out my original 1957 electrical service panel with a new Leviton Smart Service panel that I purchased (from Leviton) with all Smart breakers. I personally installed new 12AWG wire from the attic into the old service panel with slack to fit the new panel terminations. All he had to do was disconnect the circuits that I wired in, remove the old service panel, mount the new service panel, wire in the new service wiring from the meter and reconnect the circuits that he disconnected from the old box. Everything fit perfectly! Of the 5 electrical contractors that I initially contacted (3 of which gave me prices) not a single one would agree to an hourly billing all were only a total job price. I ended up dishing out $1400 for an electrician that really spent 3 maybe 3.5 hours doing actual work and dragging his feet and phone calls the remainder of the time. Security cameras do not lie. What really aggravates me is that I also was an electrician in my past life so I could have done the job myself, but 9 out of 10 times the electric company makes an appearance after the electric meter is disconnected (the smart meter lets them know), so I would have had some explaining to do. @@atlasacrepair
I told the salesman "I'm sorry. I need to think about it." He said "I'm sorry I asked my manager to give you a discount. I'm sorry I'm not home with my wife right on. Friday." 💩💩💩
Man, its unfortunate the tactics that are being used in this industry right now, that's why we try to educate as many people as we can so they don't fall victim to high pressure sales with companies like this.
Great Video! I live in central HOT Florida, like Texas, currently have a 20 year old Payne Package unit and the duct work is past EOL. I decided to dump the package unit system and go with either a ??? Mini Split Ceiling Cassette system or an attic system with ducts. The main issue is that the HVAC companies down here do not do many or if any of these cassette systems. The problem with the cassette system is that my joists are 16" on center and all the cassettes are about 24" on center requiring some carpentry skills also and the quality of work done by the local area HVAC personal is not that great. All the HVAC places that I know about have their employees on commission and charge an arm and a leg, which is why I am concerned. The last HVAC issue I had was that the ecobee thermostat was calling for heat, but the Package unit was not responding. The technician arrived popped the cover off of the unit, looked around wiggled a few wires, used his meter to check some electrical connections (observing him it was only the 220VAC and pretended that he checked other things) he probably did not know that in my previous life I was an Electrical Engineer, but I said nothing. He looked up and said it was the motherboard (which he only shined his flashlight on) that controls the system. I said, "Are you positive?", "Yes!". When he said that I knew that it was time to send him on his way. After he left I dumped the ecobee thermostat history data and my Energy management system history data and noticed that the ecobee was calling for heat, but it was requesting AUX heat, which I do not have here in Florida. I accessed the ecobee settings and noticed that there were some settings that I did not program in so I reset them to my original settings that I put in. Rebooted the thermostat and can you believe it, instant heat. Oh, I asked the HVAC guy how much the motherboard would cost, he said between $500 and $600 dollars. This happened on a Saturday morning so they did not have a motherboard in their parts room. Needless to say, I cancelled the Tuesday morning appointment for the board install. The ecobee change did not make sense, so I contacted ecobee support and asked the last time that they remotely updated my thermostat, she said a few days ago. Well we had some power company issues around that time and we concluded that the upgrade may have been botched. What are the odds of that happening. I am online pricing all the components out and I will have a ballpark figure without labor and PROFIT built in, but I will give me a base to work with. I could do the equipment install, but at 75 years old probably not. I will be reviewing Facebook to see which companies the people are most happy with for complete installs. Doing this has usually weeded most of the undesirables. I could tackle the job my self as I am good at carpentry, I installed an Auto AC unit from scratch in my 65 Mustang and it worked like a charm for 10 years (great instructions) before I sold the car. I have thought about installing the 2 outside condensers, line sets, wiring, ceiling cassettes and just have a reputable independent HVAC guy set up the system. I am not sure that there are many HVAC guys that would take that task on, even if I did not hold them responsible. I would make sure that he/she followed the check list of the manufacture. I do not have a ton of money to dish out to the back pockets of the HVAC companies for their lush vacations and personal purchases. We shall see what happens.
I agree, it can be challenging finding good contractors in this day and age in the HVAC industry. In my opinion, cassette per room is going to give you the best climate control systems available in the market because you can control each room separately. The downside to cassettes with more than 3 heads is that they become a lot more finicky and it takes a lot more knowledge to be able to properly install and work on the systems. From a cost perspective they are going to be one of the most expensive options, and again this might create a challenge finding the right company. If you decide to go with a central AC ducted system the downside is that you're not going to have as much control but the upside is that you should be able to find more companies that can properly install and work on it. Hope this helps!
What I do is look to see which contractors the local builders are using. Normally these guys give the best quotes. Sure they don’t look professional with a cool logo on the van.
That a contactor coil on its way out, not a capacitor lol. If your low voltage circuit has no fuse or breaker, it could damage the transformer. Tis a ticking bomb to die though so keep an eye on it m8
I had a contractor out the other day, it sure relates to what you said, first he was trying to sale me a furnace and AC, then when I told him I only wanted AC, he told me a very high price, I kept telling him I want other bids, then he lowered the price $2,000when I still wouldn’t give in, he told me if you’ll let use install tomorrow I’ll knock $4,000 off, I thought this guy would never leave, and I had such a headache will he finally left.
What crazy is I watch Tucker Carlson he was in Russia this week. He bought groceries at a grocery store. I don’t remember the exact figure but for his crew total of six people all grown adults ready for this is $150 for a full eight days, breakfast, lunch and dinner Yep another words our government been lying to us too about everything else. The prices of everything here are way too high a person should absolutely be able to get a really good air conditioner a really good one for a home that’s 2500 maybe 3000 ft.² for no more than about $3000 or no reason for it to cost more than that except for greed and you see whatever needs to be done must happen because this kind of stuff needs to be Stopped There’s no excuse for this kind of stuff it’s greed. They’ve caused it and they’ve given the right for these companies to continue to overcharge people for everything whether it’s an air conditioner, gasoline food so you can eat then they want you to not be able to plant your own vegetables because the climate, but they can put all kinds of giant windmills that are like 400 feet tall and they’ll destroy 140,000 acres in a nice rural forest area and that’s supposed to be good, these idiots man we need to get rid of them. They need to be put out of government in the sicko that think like this it’s a problem because it’s a lie about the stuff that you’re talking about. They change the price they make things more unreachable for people every day and it’s got to stop.
This is a lie. I'm Russian from Moscow. Now I live in San Jose. In Moscow, my wife and I spent about $1,200 a month on purchases at the grocery store. In San Jose, we spend about $1,100 per month on monthly purchases for roughly the same range of groceries. In Moscow, services are a little cheaper. This is because the salary in Moscow is approximately 5 times less than in San Jose.
Future video suggestion...
As I am researching my options for replacing my existing Package unit with something new and I came across something that may need some clarification. The type of refrigerant that is current and some of the systems that still are promoting older types. I seen some for use with R410A, R454b, I believe there was one other and some did not mention the type at all. R454b must be the latest type. If my memory serves me right, one of the refrigerant types was a flammable gas where as the others were not. I would venture to say that the older ones are probably being discounted for a close out. Are you aware of any cut off date for when the unsold older units can no longer be sold? I would think that the older type refrigerants will be discontinued and of course price gouging would go into affect? Your thoughts on if I should eliminate the older types from my possible selection? Any professional reviews on the newer refrigerants?
Your thoughts please
Thanks
Freon is somewhat of a complicated topic because the EPA does not me it easy. There is a two pronged approach to the phase out. The first is the reduction in 410A and the second is the regulatory changes to what manufactures can sell. 410A which is the freon that is in wide use and there are going to be product cuts to it over the upcoming years.
• 2022 - 10% Reduction In Over All Production
• 2024 - 40% Reduction In Over All Production
• 2029 - 70% Reduction In Over All Production
• 2034 - 80% Reduction In Over All Production
• 2036 - 85% Reduction In Over All Production
So, it’s going to follow a similar phase out as R22. So 410a with going to be around for a while, however pricing is going to go up as production gets slashed.
In regard to equipment regulations, in 2025 manufactures will not be allowed to sell equipment that uses 410a. Most manufactures are going to move over to R454B which should endure future scrutiny from the EPA for many years. Daikin, Amana, and Goodman are going to R32 which the EPA will most likely phase out in the next 7 years because it doesn’t look like its going to be able to hold up to future regulations in the pipeline. R454B and R32 have both been classified as flammable. So that changes the standards that are used for storage and equipment design. The new equipment will all come with sensers, so if it starts to since freon levels are low the equipment is going to shut off. Due to this the equipment cost is going to be higher than 410a equipment.
Much like in 2022 with Seer2, the EPA has not finalize all the changes yet. Some manufacturers took a really big hit when they made some last-minute changes to Seer2 standards. So many factories have not ramped up the production of the equipment for the new Freon. I’m not expecting the new freon equipment to be readily available till mid-year, so close to July.
410A
Pros
• Equipment has been around a long time and is tried and true.
• The 410a equipment will be cheaper
Cons
• Future freon cost will going to go up like R22
R454B and R32
Pros
• Freon cost will stay low
Cons
• The equipment will cost more
• Theres going to be added sensors and potentially additional maintenance required
Hope this helps!
Senville, is one of the companies that does not mention the type of Freon used and they do have a 5 star 83% approval rating in some reviews that I have looked at. After contacting their support, they said that "ALL" their systems use 410a. As I look at their advertisements, I see some of their HVAC split systems are now going on sale, maybe to clear house for a new series of HVAC systems that will be using the R454B or some other type. My next question that I have is, compared to R22 systems, how does the 410a/R454B Freon systems performance stack up against the R22. Like comparing identical 30K Btu systems against each other. Now that would be interesting. Great for a video! Which leads me to the ultimate question, do I just skip the 410A systems and wait for the R454B to become more available in the market place with hopes that the pricing will come down on new purchases. Maybe I should purchase a tank of 410A Freon, before that gets restrictions placed on the sale, as a backup supply, just in case. Still hoping to get another year out of the old package unit. Oh, Senville is a company owned by GD Media, founded in 1968 and has over 70K employees with a major group in the R&D of HVAC. Just one of the many that I am reviewing.
Thanks for your input @@atlasacrepair
Thank you for great content.
Glad I could help!
Jon Wayne put in a 2.5 ton 14 seer goodman unit on my neighbors house and charged 14500 dollars
Unfortunately, it's common for prices in our service area to exceed ours by more than double. This is why I always recommend two, and sometimes even three, additional quotes. After all, someone has to foot the bill for those NASCAR sponsorships.
I called a local company that my parents had been doing business with for 30 years and asked them to come change out the gas exhaust blower motor, which had trash in it or the bearing was going bad in. Guy comes out and spends 2 minutes looking at the front, with the cover off and tells me that I needed a new $$$y$tem. I told him about it only needing a gas exhaust blower or just needed to be cleaned out, and he says the part Is impossible to get and is rebuilt, so it wouldn't last any time. I told him I'd think about it, and then they had the gaul to send me an 80 dollar bill for an infomercial. I was incensed. That was 3 years ago and the system is still running fine, with the trash noise in the exhaust system. I'll name the company if you allow it.
Man, so sorry to heat about your experience, its sad to hear what this industry is coming to. I do my best not to bash other companies, but I also believe in full transparency and free speech so if you'd like to share their name, you're more than welcome to!
Kennith, the Plumbing industry I believe is right up there if not #1 with Electrical contractors. Home repair and HVAC are also with them. Two years ago my main home sewer pipe to the street collapsed. The house was built in 1957 and that was the last year for sewer pipes that were made from some kind of tar/paper/cardboard material. Two different plumbers wanted 6 and 7 grand to replace 70' of 4" PVC which is 18" under ground. I priced out the parts and it totaled less than $300 for all the parts. I purchased them and the lawn guy trenched and installed the pipe for $900 (he gave me the price). He took less than 1 day where the plumber wanted to do it in 2.5 days.
As for Electrical work, last year I contracted an Electrical contracting company ( least expensive of 3) to change out my original 1957 electrical service panel with a new Leviton Smart Service panel that I purchased (from Leviton) with all Smart breakers. I personally installed new 12AWG wire from the attic into the old service panel with slack to fit the new panel terminations. All he had to do was disconnect the circuits that I wired in, remove the old service panel, mount the new service panel, wire in the new service wiring from the meter and reconnect the circuits that he disconnected from the old box. Everything fit perfectly! Of the 5 electrical contractors that I initially contacted (3 of which gave me prices) not a single one would agree to an hourly billing all were only a total job price. I ended up dishing out $1400 for an electrician that really spent 3 maybe 3.5 hours doing actual work and dragging his feet and phone calls the remainder of the time. Security cameras do not lie. What really aggravates me is that I also was an electrician in my past life so I could have done the job myself, but 9 out of 10 times the electric company makes an appearance after the electric meter is disconnected (the smart meter lets them know), so I would have had some explaining to do. @@atlasacrepair
That’s a good one, they try to say that If you disconnect the meter you will be in trouble l.
I told the salesman "I'm sorry. I need to think about it."
He said "I'm sorry I asked my manager to give you a discount. I'm sorry I'm not home with my wife right on. Friday." 💩💩💩
Man, its unfortunate the tactics that are being used in this industry right now, that's why we try to educate as many people as we can so they don't fall victim to high pressure sales with companies like this.
With how crazy inflation is these days. Paying 24 grand over 15 years may actually be cheaper than paying 20 grand today.
Great Video! I live in central HOT Florida, like Texas, currently have a 20 year old Payne Package unit and the duct work is past EOL. I decided to dump the package unit system and go with either a ??? Mini Split Ceiling Cassette system or an attic system with ducts. The main issue is that the HVAC companies down here do not do many or if any of these cassette systems. The problem with the cassette system is that my joists are 16" on center and all the cassettes are about 24" on center requiring some carpentry skills also and the quality of work done by the local area HVAC personal is not that great. All the HVAC places that I know about have their employees on commission and charge an arm and a leg, which is why I am concerned.
The last HVAC issue I had was that the ecobee thermostat was calling for heat, but the Package unit was not responding. The technician arrived popped the cover off of the unit, looked around wiggled a few wires, used his meter to check some electrical connections (observing him it was only the 220VAC and pretended that he checked other things) he probably did not know that in my previous life I was an Electrical Engineer, but I said nothing. He looked up and said it was the motherboard (which he only shined his flashlight on) that controls the system. I said, "Are you positive?", "Yes!". When he said that I knew that it was time to send him on his way. After he left I dumped the ecobee thermostat history data and my Energy management system history data and noticed that the ecobee was calling for heat, but it was requesting AUX heat, which I do not have here in Florida. I accessed the ecobee settings and noticed that there were some settings that I did not program in so I reset them to my original settings that I put in. Rebooted the thermostat and can you believe it, instant heat. Oh, I asked the HVAC guy how much the motherboard would cost, he said between $500 and $600 dollars. This happened on a Saturday morning so they did not have a motherboard in their parts room. Needless to say, I cancelled the Tuesday morning appointment for the board install. The ecobee change did not make sense, so I contacted ecobee support and asked the last time that they remotely updated my thermostat, she said a few days ago. Well we had some power company issues around that time and we concluded that the upgrade may have been botched. What are the odds of that happening.
I am online pricing all the components out and I will have a ballpark figure without labor and PROFIT built in, but I will give me a base to work with. I could do the equipment install, but at 75 years old probably not. I will be reviewing Facebook to see which companies the people are most happy with for complete installs. Doing this has usually weeded most of the undesirables. I could tackle the job my self as I am good at carpentry, I installed an Auto AC unit from scratch in my 65 Mustang and it worked like a charm for 10 years (great instructions) before I sold the car. I have thought about installing the 2 outside condensers, line sets, wiring, ceiling cassettes and just have a reputable independent HVAC guy set up the system. I am not sure that there are many HVAC guys that would take that task on, even if I did not hold them responsible. I would make sure that he/she followed the check list of the manufacture. I do not have a ton of money to dish out to the back pockets of the HVAC companies for their lush vacations and personal purchases. We shall see what happens.
I agree, it can be challenging finding good contractors in this day and age in the HVAC industry. In my opinion, cassette per room is going to give you the best climate control systems available in the market because you can control each room separately. The downside to cassettes with more than 3 heads is that they become a lot more finicky and it takes a lot more knowledge to be able to properly install and work on the systems. From a cost perspective they are going to be one of the most expensive options, and again this might create a challenge finding the right company. If you decide to go with a central AC ducted system the downside is that you're not going to have as much control but the upside is that you should be able to find more companies that can properly install and work on it. Hope this helps!
What I do is look to see which contractors the local builders are using. Normally these guys give the best quotes. Sure they don’t look professional with a cool logo on the van.
I had a company in Orlando try to say I needed a new capacitor (buzzing sound)...I said thanks but I'll wait....18mos later AC still going strong
That a contactor coil on its way out, not a capacitor lol. If your low voltage circuit has no fuse or breaker, it could damage the transformer. Tis a ticking bomb to die though so keep an eye on it m8
Cash price is the best price 😁
I had a contractor out the other day, it sure relates to what you said, first he was trying to sale me a furnace and AC, then when I told him I only wanted AC, he told me a very high price, I kept telling him I want other bids, then he lowered the price $2,000when I still wouldn’t give in, he told me if you’ll let use install tomorrow I’ll knock $4,000 off, I thought this guy would never leave, and I had such a headache will he finally left.
Contractor tried SCAMMING homeowner 🏡🫣
Can you make a video on heat load, with foam insulation on new builds.
Heat load with foam insulation 🏡
What crazy is I watch Tucker Carlson he was in Russia this week. He bought groceries at a grocery store. I don’t remember the exact figure but for his crew total of six people all grown adults ready for this is $150 for a full eight days, breakfast, lunch and dinner Yep another words our government been lying to us too about everything else. The prices of everything here are way too high a person should absolutely be able to get a really good air conditioner a really good one for a home that’s 2500 maybe 3000 ft.² for no more than about $3000 or no reason for it to cost more than that except for greed and you see whatever needs to be done must happen because this kind of stuff needs to be Stopped There’s no excuse for this kind of stuff it’s greed. They’ve caused it and they’ve given the right for these companies to continue to overcharge people for everything whether it’s an air conditioner, gasoline food so you can eat then they want you to not be able to plant your own vegetables because the climate, but they can put all kinds of giant windmills that are like 400 feet tall and they’ll destroy 140,000 acres in a nice rural forest area and that’s supposed to be good, these idiots man we need to get rid of them. They need to be put out of government in the sicko that think like this it’s a problem because it’s a lie about the stuff that you’re talking about. They change the price they make things more unreachable for people every day and it’s got to stop.
This is a lie. I'm Russian from Moscow. Now I live in San Jose. In Moscow, my wife and I spent about $1,200 a month on purchases at the grocery store. In San Jose, we spend about $1,100 per month on monthly purchases for roughly the same range of groceries. In Moscow, services are a little cheaper. This is because the salary in Moscow is approximately 5 times less than in San Jose.