short answer from me would be a No, most limitation we see atm with team building is not becoz of team passive restriction but mainly due to small number of char roster we have atm
it honesty gets a bit annoying tho like for example i have Ellen and Koleda and i'm planning to get Lycaon for my Ellen, that means my second team will have Koleda and that also means i should pair her with Ben but then which dps can i use other than Anton? What if i wanna use some other dps? i coulnd't cause that dps passive won't get activated unless it's a fire dps or goes in team with Koleda-Ben
@@luciel98 that why i said all the current limitation in team building is due to char roster is still small so we r just lacking in options atm instead of pure restriction from the team passive. We just don't have enough char atm as this is only first patch of the game, we need to wait and mhy will fill in all the missing slot.
@@luciel98another possibility in this case would be to slot in Lucy and Piper. As a fire character, Lucy would activate Koleda and would also activate Piper (due to Sons of Calydon).
A very cool thing the Devs can add are Dual-Factional Characters, Characters who belong (or resonates) with two factions (or maybe even more? For example, A Void Hunter who resonates with every other Void Hunter, with their Element and Faction being irrelevant.) We know that Soldier 11 and Anby have some sort of history together, so it’d be rather neat if these two could Resonate with each other simply just because of LORE!!! Billy as well, coming from the Outskirts of New Eridu, there seems to be some suggestion that the Sons of Calydon come from the Outskirts as well, which opens up the possibility of Billy having a past with this Faction, and therefore opens up the possibility of Billy having a Dual-Faction Resonance with the Cunning Hares and Sons of Calydon. Then we have Grace who is obsessed with machines, so her having resonance with Machine Characters would be a rather unique resonance that opens up possibilities for others having a unique resonance of their own. It’d also be a cool idea if two Factions merged into one, there aren’t many Factions known to us at the time for me to give a proper example, but the option of Faction Mergence is a fun idea to entertain.
My problem is The Factions aren't Consistant, For Example Cuning Hares are 3-1 A ranks ,where Victoria Housekeeping is 3-1 S Rank. And The Public Security's Criminal Investigation team will also have a 3 to 1 S Ranks, being Seth the only A rank.
Thats part of what concern me, when we get new characters will they be added to existing factions or will new factions constantly be coming out and Cunning hares stay the same
I think a way to fix the problem for small groups like the cunning hares would be for the w engines to be reworked to count as part of the faction in terms of gameplay
Cunning Hares actually seems the most likely faction to grow organically. I can imagine Nicole adopting many more strays until it becomes massive, and there's not as strict of a "visual style" as most of the other factions, other than streetwear fashion. It's a bit harder with the other ones because of visual redundancy; there's a limit on how many "Police" or "Housekeeping" variations we can have before it feels really, really stale. Same with Sons of Calydon and Belabog. Odol & Section 6 also seem like they have some sort of standard uniforms, but may be a bit more flexible by nature of being "Elite" squads. Idols would be the same, but I can also easily imagine them overpopulating it when it comes.
"I want to play who I like" is already incompatible with the point of the video, since even with the Core passive matching, the characters we like may not necessarily work together that well. But indeed this system can very easily get out of control. I only hope they prioritize developing existing factions over introducing new ones, and also more loose conditions like Zhu Yuan's.
It is rather contradictory to the point I was trying to make though I suppose I was being more cautious in a situation where those passives became really really good that you just cant ignore them. Right now im still playing lycaon with nicole-zhuyuan even if his passive doesnt activate but I wonder if in the future I get a character with a super good passive that id end up losing out on too much damage or efficiency and end up not able to use them with the DPS I want or have. Generally I do hope they do what you mention and have looser conditions like zhu yuan
This isn't as much of a problem as it was in beta, as they have already released more 4-stars to fill out these roles (e g. Lucy and Piper), and likely will release more going forward. I think that if it's a problem at all, it will be an early game problem that will clear up as players get more 4-stars.
I guess it depends on how those new characters are released, would we get more characters joining existing factions or more factions with 4-6 characters each time. If its the former then yeah I doubt this would be an issue at all but if its the latter, I think it might still be annoying
I think that the faction requirement is more a way to allow faction teams to exist because without it you might not be able to activate the passive without the right element or something and that would mean that you couldn’t play characters from the same faction together unless they had the right element and it would feel weird because those characters wouldn’t have any synergy together
But it seems kind of odd to build that in, i mean im sure there are people who only want to play characters of a specific faction because of preference or they like them or something but it might limit the people who dont particularly want to RP in that way, I guess for me its just weird because I happen to get lycaon and his signature weapon in the standard banner but its not "efficient" to run him with my zhu yuan and nicole since he is neither ether nor from either characters factions. Again its great if you happen to want to run an all victoria housekeeping group but otherwise it seems a little limiting
I had a thought that they could add skins that just changed a character's faction along with their appearance. Like Opol Squad: Outfit for Anby or a Sons Of Caledon: Outfit for Bill Kid. It would be a good way to expand characters stories and factions without needing to add to many new characters.
@@naw613 pls don't spread fake fact coz you only play genshin from mhy - HI3 do sell some skin with top up currency but it usually B to A rank skin, rarely S rank skin. Most S rank skin in hi3 can be obtain with crystal(hi3 gacha currency) and not too expensive either, they even give out free A rank and B rank skin basically almost every patches. Hi3 even bring back previous old B to A rank skin and allow you to buy it with non gacha and non top up currency. - HSR don't even have skin yet (ik march change outfit that 1 time but there have been nothing from mhy about how to get it officially yet) - Genshin is the game that most skin r paid skin but they still give the 4 star skin for free on the patch the skin debut
To be honest I like the idea, though I wonder if we would get enough free ones to give us that flexibility. If we do its certainly an interesting prospect you can have billy join public sec or something that would be pretty funny 😂
Do bangboos themselves count as a victoria housekeeping character? I didnt know that actually, i thought you needed to have 2 characters so corin & lycaon for example to activate its passive
Eeeeh, I don't think this is really a problem per se, at least not one that needs to be fixed by changing it entirely. Rather, I think it just means that the devs need to be more thoughtful in terms of faction, element, and class when designing future characters. Of course, I also think they're dropping the ball hard already with what's known about several upcoming characters. For example, does Qingyi really need to be an ELECTRIC stun character when every player gets Anby for free? Do the HAND characters who aren't Miyabi really need to be electric element when by then we'll have an electric element of each class, while the physical element still lacks a support, a stun, and even a defense character? Did Jane Doe really need to be physical anomaly when we already have Piper, and in addition to the physical element still lacking the classes mentioned prior the ANOMALY class still lacks characters with a fire, ice, or ether element? The element and class distribution of these early characters is really strange, and I think addressing this will be the first step to creating more diverse team compositions while keeping to the theme of "like attracts like".
I dont think it needs a huge fix either, definitely can be 'solved' with some smart labelling though I just wonder how difficult it would be once the roster gets better. I also do agree with what you mentioned regarding public-sec and section 6 characters it seems this really only works if you have a majority of the characters to easily mix and match and if you only have a handful of them pairing them up within a specific faction seems annoying. Though again if more characters are available then I suppose its not that huge a problem but at the same time, do more characters mean more factions?
@@arnowisp6244 Which is fine, and also inevitable given the nature of gacha games, but I would think having a wider variety of options would be a more important priority in the game's early life since most elements are missing two or even three classes to their name. Hell, ether as an element only has two characters PERIOD, which is so bad that Zhu Yuan's extra passive needed to have the condition of "faction or support character" rather than the usual condition of "faction or element" to expand her initial team building options beyond merely Anby and Nicole. Physical as an element also suffers horribly as it currently has three attack characters and one (soon to be two) anomaly, which severely limits the ability to build teams with physical characters in them in general. Yet, for some reason, it seems the first few groups of characters are going to be introducing a boatload of new electricity characters first and foremost... even though we already have plenty of them. And sure, maybe not EVERY person has access to all the current electric characters (I myself only have Anton and Anby at present), but since Rina and Grace are both standard S rank characters, it's also more or less inevitable that everyone will eventually get one or both of them, especially if they plan to nab one as their 300 pulls choice. And, again, the next electric character is an electric STUN, which is a role that a freely-given character already fills quite well enough. That is one of if not the LAST role they should be doubling up on, not the actual first.
@@Maevix3142 There probably will be more factions in the future, especially as the story continues, but I would expect them to also add more characters to the current factions as time goes on, especially at present when they have a trailer that's shown off lots of characters from the factions already in the game. But even when we do get brand new factions, I don't think it'll be an issue since insofar as I can tell, Factions tend to run on specific elemental themes - Half of the Victoria roster is Ice, for example, which fits well with their theme of housekeeping (since ice is basically water which is essential for cleaning stuff) while Belebog is an even split of fire and electric, both of which fit well with their construction theme. While it is too early to say for sure, I would be willing to bet that future characters and factions are going to reinforce this idea that factions have some degree of elemental focus, which will help with pairing characters from different factions together.
on the Koleda/ben synergy that won't actually be an issue thanks to Japanese law not allowing you to separate necessary components into multiple gacha pieces so for example if we get such a 2 character pairing one HAS to be guaranteed free for everyone
Thats good to know, at least if such synergies exist we can be sure to have access to it though i hope it stays within the realm of 5star + 4star instead of needing 2 5 stars or something
If I had to guess, they did this kind of design as a derivative of the elemental resonance. They started with something similar and ended up with this, and the reasons to use this system are easier team building for casual players, "force" to design characters that play well with specific characters, and giving more value to pulling thanks to factions. With geshin they learned that having a character in x faction gives players more reasons to pull for them, like players wanting all the archons or all the fatui. The fatui impact you can clearly see in HSR. In that game they doubled down on factions, they made multiples with a lot of members each. But this approach only affects artistically and lore-wise, if you don't care about the story, it has less influence on you, so that is why zzz decided to give it a gameplay purpose too. Right now I don't feel any restriction with this system, even tho I'm using koleda in my ellen team, I don't feel like it's a lot worse for not having the passive, but I think this is thanks to design. They will need to keep designing kits with this in mind so players don't feel like their characters are incomplete without the passive. I'm totally fine with the system. I feel like the pros are good enough to keep the system, and I think if at some point this starts to feel bad, they can ease a lot with giving more conditions to activate the passive, like in Zhu Yuan case. If she had activation with ether chara instead of support, that would be too restrictive, so they changed it. So you can add a 3rd condition to every character. Like Condition 1 same faction, Condition 2 same element, Condition 3 unique. Ex: Grace: Robot chara; Ellen: Ladies; Anby: Soldier 11; Piper: Anomaly chara; Lycon: other furries. Etc.
Youre right, I just wonder whether when we get more characters does it mean more joining existing factions (which will alleviate the problem somewhat) or are we going to get 4-6 characters and a bunch of new factions
@@Maevix3142 That's true, i'm also abit concerned about this especially with the physical element. It's so criminal because assault does burst damage and all the physical characters are fun to run, but they're made of currently as 3 attackers and one anomaly with the next physical character being jane doe. Although from the looks of things, Jane doe being anomaly isn't so bad since we atleast can pair them with the other Neps agents unlike 2 of physical attackers billy and nekomata who are from the same faction
I don't think it will be, but I'd be wary either way. As a former player of mobile games where factions started to take over the meta, it's very easy to go overboard with tag-based design. I wouldn't be surprised if we see factions start to become more important in Star Rail too.
Right now star rail doesnt limit it much but of course you have FUA supports pair better with FUA DPS but thats still reasonable, with zzz i feel that playing all victoria household chars is just an aesthetic thing, like if the passive activate without that I think not many would run whole faction parties
If you dont give any incentive to combo certain characters together then you just start to lead towards one generic option becoming optimal instead. Youll start to get situations where theirs one most optimal stun agent for every team or something similar instead
Yeah I get that, it does sort of ensure you have a more varied combination of parties rather than pigeonhole you to only use the same DPS-stunner-support. I guess im just a bit worried that if I ever got lucky with a DPS from a particular faction but dont have any other characters from that faction itll take me ages to be able to play the one I got at their best.
The factions thing will only be a problem if they make Factions that are almost entirely composed of S rank characters. Literally making that faction a Whale Faction. It's like this with The 10 stonehearts since we know they will all be 5 stars. Thing is. Both HSR and Genshin encourage you to play the characters together via synergistic mechanics. And even then they can still work outside this as independent units. The Problem with ZZZ factions is that making them a Central Mechanics means they HAVE to release enough A rank agents per faction to prevent a Character from requiring a full Premium team just to function.
If they have let's say 5 units per faction like they have room for I think it will be fine. The issue is more so that Hoyo starts with a small roster and then slowly (but steadily) expands. Plus each unit has a backup condition on top of Faction, if anything I would like to see more open conditionals like have a specific role instead of same element. I think the issue will become mostly if they try to balance the factions. Like I think it is fair to say Victoria Household would be the strongest faction atm with a strong breaker and dps with an ok support. Soilder 11 has a sniper (could be another dps or breaker) but if she also has like a medic unit (support), a demolition unit (breaker or debuffs) and heavy arms (Defender) could be a well rounded squad).
I think if existing factions can expand with say looser requirements (like zhuyuan) it wont be a problem at all, what im being needlessly worried about is if each faction has 4 characters and a year down the line we have 50 factions or something. Imagine getting 1 character from a specific faction and needing 2 more from that same faction, youd have to wait ages for reruns assuming your luck is good
@@Maevix3142 Well it's Mihoyo won't have to worry about 50 characters for about a year and a half lol. I get your point but I think each faction will still have 4-5 but time will tell. As of now we have 7 factions which is up to 28-35 characters (currently have 17) from leaks NEPS will fill out in 1.1, 1.2-4 will fill out the special operations and calydon. Then the only one missing is obol squad and by then we should know their plan. I think we might see a counter faction for Victoria Housekeeping led by the Vampire teased in Lycons character story (maybe it is instead focused on individual monsters like Dracula or Jason/Freddy).
i mean, zhu han already has a "suport or faction" unlike the more common "atribute or faction", and filter has "others" in factions, so probably will get some wildcards that would need "atribute or class", nothing means they can't expand conditions or shake them, honestly? I just want to bangboo count to atribute/factions too. butler allowing solo-lycaons and amillion allowing solo anby would be cool. Sadly some bangboos also need 2 atribute/faction to activate their passives too
Im hoping thats where character design moves in the future, I get wanting to sort of push for party diversity but I hope it doesnt become too constraining. A nice middle group between that would be just perfect
Yes but as far as I know shes the only character to have that and I think is also a good way of circumventing this. Plus future characters could come with that flexibility in mind as well but for now im just judging it based on the characters we have and most other dont unfortunately
You're looking at it as a LIMITATION instead of as a BONUS. You said it yourself: this is a mechanics reflection of the lore. Of course you're going to work better with your factionmates. I haven't fought Faction exclusive outside of the story missions. I main and stan Anby but I got lucky pulling Ellen and Soldier 11 so I rotate the three of them to build around. And Nicole because Ether seems to be the most common weakness element (I could be wrong). Most of the time, my teams are just Anby + [A support] + Piper. That support is Rina (another lucky pull, same pull as Soldier 11) or Nicole depending on the weakness of the majority of mobs and bosses. I have an Ellen + Nicole + Soukaku team for those with an Ice weakness. Soldier 11, I slot for Anby or sometimes tandem her with Anby for funsies (the twins, together!). I've done well so far. I think I only wiped once in a Rally. I haven't even built Billy up. I have Ben and Anton, but Piper is my only Anomaly for now and with her in the team mobs seem to get wiped quickly. So... yeah. that Faction-specific thing seems to be a BONUS rather than a LIMITATION. After all, elemental weaknesses seem to matter more than anything else as a prim consideration for team comp.
I guess when I mentioned limitation, I was more speaking about not being able to use certain characters in certain group. I still use lycaon with my zhuyuan-nicole team just because I like ol robot legs, but im just needlessly worried that those bonuses become too good to ignore then suddenly I cant activate them because I dont have the 'right' characters. Either way for now at least its not too big a deal and why lycaon is still in the party, just wondering if it might evolve into something worse
this reminds me at the end of the mindscapes. extra skills and more strength if you summon the same / a specific character. so, should they also remove mindscapes?
I mean... as a f2p player, I wouldn't mind that. But that's a bit different since that's an issue of resources, while the faction/element passive is a matter of teambuilding (which is arguably also an issue of resources, but I think most f2p peeps' stance on pulling, including my own, tend to gravitate towards "more characters" over "more copies").
@@jogadoru4 @KyuubiDragon4 but in both cases, you miss something out. However, in terms of mindscapes, everyone sees them as a bonus, but this special enhancement is seen as part of the character basic kit. In other words: in the first case, you argue that you have 100% of the base kit power, whereas in the second case, people think they lose part of the basic kit, so like having 90% e.g.
maybe adding: I think the special skill is also a bonus, but it isn't needed. You can optimize your damage, but you can also optimize it with the right weapon, mindscapes, right reliques, correct main stats, correct sub stats and in the end, also with gameplay. So, I would argue it's a way to get a little bit more damage, but it isnt something you have to get every character or something.
Mindscapes make sense for Duplicates. And People already have a Problem if such systems lock abilities that should be part of the character. *Cough* Amber *Cough*
I would agree if you had all characters, but right now me personally I cant efficiently use my lycaon in my zhuyuan team since id lose out on his passive activating. But again its really not a huge issue and I still use lycaon with zhuyuan because I just happen to like butler wolf guy 😂
@@Maevix3142 in the beginning you said you was the average player, how would you know if your the average player? Im joking btw, Its a bit of grammer fun
It's not really that of a big deal. Your argument about Lycaon not being utilized in a Zhu Yuan team is moot because Lycaon is designed for an Ice team to begin with. What you are arguing for is forcing a unit in a team that is not optimal for that unit, which is not even doable in GI or HSR. In either Genshin or HSR, you can't just bring any character to any team and expect them to perform at fullest potential, like say you want to use Gallagher in a non-super break team, Acheron on a no other Nihility team, Nahida in freeze comp, Cyno in a no Dendro team, Bennett in a transformative reaction EM team, etc. It's always like this, people complain about things when it's spelled out for them which was otherwise something they were already dealing with finely beforehand unbeknownst to them.
I agree it isnt a big deal and in the video I mentioned that its just a small gripe I have, not being able to use the character I got unless I summoned for Ellen. Eventually when miyabi comes out and I summon for that character ill be able to use my ice team but until then id have to bench the character or use lycaon without that passive which is unfortunate but not game breaking. I also agree that you cant just bring any mish mash of character in HSR and hope they perform at the fullest potential but at least every part of their kit works (i mean activated not works as in performs super well). Say we talk about harmony MC, if theyre paired with someone like firefly she does a buttload of damage from the super break but you can still pair them with any other character and the super break would still activate. Would it do the same buttload of damage? No but it still activated. In zzz the passive isnt on at all, so im not really talking about efficient partners, I get that hes design for an ice team but to have the passive turned off when its not an ice team feels like a weird limitation Now dont get me wrong, im not trying to complain for the sake of complaining or anything because again like I said in the video its a minor and ignorable issue one that doesnt ruin the game, I just found it weird to limit it in this way because we also have characters like zhuyuan whos passive activates just from having a support and not limited by faction or element. Zhuyuan can work easily with lycaon as long as you have a support (which you likely will) but lycaon doesnt work with her unless your support also happens to be a victoria housekeeping character, its weird that zhuyuan is flexible but lycaon isnt does it mean lycaon is designed for ice teams but zhuyuan isnt designed for ether teams? Apologies for the long wall of text, im not trying to be confrontational or anything just want to share my thoughts and reciprocate your comment 😁
It seems like an artificial balancing mechanic to me. If you played yugioh you'll know they started doiing this with archetypes some cards got busted abilities but only if you used them with worse no generic versions of cards that already existed. I presume ZZZ hopes to allow characters passives to get stronger by balancing them out with their team options. This also works to prevent certain game breaking combinations whilst still having powerful abilities. As for how this will turn out? Only time will tell.
this is worrying but as we get more characters i dont think itll be a big problem. with zhu yuans passive needing a support character/faction member and jane doe seemingly not having much synergy with zhu yuan and qingyi makes me think her passive could be same element/another anomaly character. this is just a guess but i feel like they have room to make future characters more flexible with the teammates they can have. HOWEVER if they release faction characters back to back like they are with pub sec losing a 50/50 could be the end for f2p and maybe light spenders
I also agree that the faction system is a problem but my reasoning differs. I think that it just feels cheap and boring to have gameplay like that. The synergies between two or more characters should come from their interaction with the game's core mechanics and not just because the game said so. For example, in Star Rail, we have the famous Herta Himeko pairing. Nowhere in the game does it specifically mention that Herta and Himeko will become stronger when paired together. Their synergistic nature comes from the fact they both utilize a game mechanic called "follow-up attacks" and their follow-up attacks can combo off of each other very nicely. Both characters function just fine on their own but become stronger when in the same team. It makes the gameplay feel more rewarding when players figure out these game mechanics by themselves, and it makes pulling for certain characters feel like bonus rewards rather than a requirement that needs to be fulfilled. I love ZZZ's combat as a whole, but the faction system is my one and only complaint. In my experience, a good combat system doesn't just tell the player what to do (which is what factions and elements are), a good combat system leaves room for exploration and interpretation for the players to figure out.
Yes I generally agree with this, thanks for sharing it. I do think that himeko-herta pairing is a good example of how 2 different characters can have a synergy that ends up making both better for it but with the faction stuff I just fear we lose out on that. That being said, we can still go ahead and use whatever combinations we want but at the expense of those passives. I guess HSR has that core mechanic like FUA or dot while genshin has elemental reactions but zzz doesnt really have something that cant prop the teams up, i did hear that it once had elemental reactions but was too complicated of a system
@@Maevix3142 ZZZ does have an elemental reaction system, you could pile up different Anomalies (elements) on the same enemy to create a Disorder (reaction). But as of right now, that system is very underdeveloped and underutilized which is why most people don't even know it exist
the way I see it is a bit on the reverse, where I think the elements and combat styles are limiting, and its factions what offer flexibility in team build, Like for example, Zhu Yuan seems good until you realized the loophole, because her passive activates only with SUPPORTS that share an attibute or faction, which means that, say, Belobog Industries gets a Stun Ether agent, if you put them in a team with Zhu Yuan, her passive wont work because it only looks for supports. What I agree on is that there should be a few more A ranks/4 stars to fit into team slots, and there's also those crazy builds people are coming up with like turning Anomaly characters into DPS, or turning Ben into a stunner, or making Lucy's ultimate oneshot bosses, I think more opportunities for characters to enhance their secondary stats enough that they can fit in for a different role could be a good thing to avoid this strict "best team requires 3 S ranks" situation
bro you cant say we dont have enough 4 star characters from the same team and then procced to say you want to use lycaon over anby your making your point blurry and sounds like you are just complaining and thank you for making a comparison to genshin as i would like to counter your 2 points from that game firstly about passives being useless: raiden's best team at C0 is using her as off field electro applier which is basically ignoring 90% of her kit/passives secondly about characters you want to use and dont want to use: in the video you showed navia and navia wants a geo teammate and all 4 star geo characters succ ass so you either pull for zhongli or chiori the latter also gated behind C1 to make her synergize better with navia reminder that in genshin you need to pull for 4 characters in a team while zzz is 3 and genshin has healers as a class which zzz doesnt have
Maybe I misworded it in the video but what I was trying to convey was that in a zhuyuan-nicole team, if I want all characters to have their passives activated I cant use the lycaon that I summoned because of the faction requirements so it feels like I have to either choose to play lycaon with no passive or anby with passive. I want to use lycaon but I would also like to have his passive up and the current setup doesnt allow for that In terms of your first genshin point, I never mentioned that the passives are useless. For zzz i mentioned that the passives right now are not absolutely needed (as in theyre nice to haves) that you can ignore them but I worry if in the future they suddenly become central to the character and for genshin I said that there is no mechanic that requires you to play only certain nations For the second point, I used navia and zhongli just to illustrate that there is no limitation between nations, thats all. Of course if you want to play the absolute best team then youd need all 4 best characters. For example in star rail, if i wanna play a kafka dot team, running kafka with black swan, ruan mei and huohuo is the ideal setup but there is nothing that prevents me running sampo instead of black swan. The damage will be lower yes, but no part of Sampo's kit is locked off just because he isnt the same faction or something. I was mostly trying to illustrate that there is not faction based restriction in genshin or HSR That said, this is minor gripe at best like I mentioned in the video and if it did come of as complainy that wasnt my intention, I was just mostly curious about how things might develop and what those potential directions mean for the game😁
@@Maevix3142 oh bro genshin 100% is racist/region locked in many ways back in liyue they released 2 weapons that get better the more liyue characters you have the new fontaine sets and characters work better with furina than none fontaine characters and boi oh boi is natlan even worse with its racism/region lock mechanics some passives in ZZZ are crucial some are not and it seems like 5 star passives are crucial while 4 star passives are while lycaon passive is good qingyi is better and more universal and thats how they want to sell new characters to people slowly but surely powercreep the rooster we've had niche and universal supports in other mihoho games who are 4 star and 5 star and we had characters who can only fit in one team cuz their passives are designed around it you can use sampo instead of blackswan but that is coping the same way you cope with anby until qingyi comes out do you use a 4 star in the team with core passive up or do you use 5 star without core passive anby pretty much only stuns and doesnt buff so using lycaon in the team will still give you better results cuz he stuns better than anby with her passive we play these games to create teams that work around their weaknesses and if the team is not optimal the solution is probably fixed by pulling
This already became a Problem in Genshin with Imaginarium theater because you need so many more Units just to clear it. It's so weak right now Veteran players are bored. And new Players just lack the characters to make this mode work.
To be fair hsr dies this as well its just less obvious if you didn’t get Kafka then getting black swan doesn’t help you very much if you don’t have ruan Mei then all the break characters arnt nearly as strong don’t like topaz animations so any follow up team I do will be weaker since I don’t have her zzz if anything makes team build easier as it’s way more obvious what characters you should put together and pull for Personally I like the team building aspect that is currently there makes me hyped for more characters and it’s one of the reasons I’m not pulling for zhu yuan I understand why the changed her team requirements since there is only one other either character but it removes any team building aspect she would have and doesn’t make me hyped for what future characters I could put her with
Some passives are honestly not that important. Like, nicole's ether dmg bonus passive does not do anything in my physical team but the def shred and CC are still great
Yes youre right, its largely ignorable at this moment I jsut wonder if we will ever get into a situation where the passive cant be ignored, though no sense thinking too much before it happens im just generally wondering 😁
short answer from me would be a No, most limitation we see atm with team building is not becoz of team passive restriction but mainly due to small number of char roster we have atm
To add to your comment, a faction team can functionally beat the main story/content without trouble atm
it honesty gets a bit annoying tho like for example i have Ellen and Koleda and i'm planning to get Lycaon for my Ellen, that means my second team will have Koleda and that also means i should pair her with Ben but then which dps can i use other than Anton? What if i wanna use some other dps? i coulnd't cause that dps passive won't get activated unless it's a fire dps or goes in team with Koleda-Ben
@@luciel98 that why i said all the current limitation in team building is due to char roster is still small so we r just lacking in options atm instead of pure restriction from the team passive. We just don't have enough char atm as this is only first patch of the game, we need to wait and mhy will fill in all the missing slot.
@luciel98 some passives aren't even that great. Just gotta weigh out if its worth it or not
@@luciel98another possibility in this case would be to slot in Lucy and Piper. As a fire character, Lucy would activate Koleda and would also activate Piper (due to Sons of Calydon).
"What if you don't like Anby"
You have no soul.
Hey I didnt say I didnt like her, im just saying what if someone out there doesnt 😂
A very cool thing the Devs can add are Dual-Factional Characters, Characters who belong (or resonates) with two factions (or maybe even more? For example, A Void Hunter who resonates with every other Void Hunter, with their Element and Faction being irrelevant.)
We know that Soldier 11 and Anby have some sort of history together, so it’d be rather neat if these two could Resonate with each other simply just because of LORE!!!
Billy as well, coming from the Outskirts of New Eridu, there seems to be some suggestion that the Sons of Calydon come from the Outskirts as well, which opens up the possibility of Billy having a past with this Faction, and therefore opens up the possibility of Billy having a Dual-Faction Resonance with the Cunning Hares and Sons of Calydon.
Then we have Grace who is obsessed with machines, so her having resonance with Machine Characters would be a rather unique resonance that opens up possibilities for others having a unique resonance of their own.
It’d also be a cool idea if two Factions merged into one, there aren’t many Factions known to us at the time for me to give a proper example, but the option of Faction Mergence is a fun idea to entertain.
My problem is The Factions aren't Consistant, For Example Cuning Hares are 3-1 A ranks ,where Victoria Housekeeping is 3-1 S Rank. And The Public Security's Criminal Investigation team will also have a 3 to 1 S Ranks, being Seth the only A rank.
Thats part of what concern me, when we get new characters will they be added to existing factions or will new factions constantly be coming out and Cunning hares stay the same
I think a way to fix the problem for small groups like the cunning hares would be for the w engines to be reworked to count as part of the faction in terms of gameplay
Cunning Hares actually seems the most likely faction to grow organically. I can imagine Nicole adopting many more strays until it becomes massive, and there's not as strict of a "visual style" as most of the other factions, other than streetwear fashion.
It's a bit harder with the other ones because of visual redundancy; there's a limit on how many "Police" or "Housekeeping" variations we can have before it feels really, really stale. Same with Sons of Calydon and Belabog. Odol & Section 6 also seem like they have some sort of standard uniforms, but may be a bit more flexible by nature of being "Elite" squads. Idols would be the same, but I can also easily imagine them overpopulating it when it comes.
"I want to play who I like" is already incompatible with the point of the video, since even with the Core passive matching, the characters we like may not necessarily work together that well. But indeed this system can very easily get out of control. I only hope they prioritize developing existing factions over introducing new ones, and also more loose conditions like Zhu Yuan's.
It is rather contradictory to the point I was trying to make though I suppose I was being more cautious in a situation where those passives became really really good that you just cant ignore them. Right now im still playing lycaon with nicole-zhuyuan even if his passive doesnt activate but I wonder if in the future I get a character with a super good passive that id end up losing out on too much damage or efficiency and end up not able to use them with the DPS I want or have. Generally I do hope they do what you mention and have looser conditions like zhu yuan
This isn't as much of a problem as it was in beta, as they have already released more 4-stars to fill out these roles (e g. Lucy and Piper), and likely will release more going forward. I think that if it's a problem at all, it will be an early game problem that will clear up as players get more 4-stars.
I guess it depends on how those new characters are released, would we get more characters joining existing factions or more factions with 4-6 characters each time. If its the former then yeah I doubt this would be an issue at all but if its the latter, I think it might still be annoying
I think that the faction requirement is more a way to allow faction teams to exist because without it you might not be able to activate the passive without the right element or something and that would mean that you couldn’t play characters from the same faction together unless they had the right element and it would feel weird because those characters wouldn’t have any synergy together
But it seems kind of odd to build that in, i mean im sure there are people who only want to play characters of a specific faction because of preference or they like them or something but it might limit the people who dont particularly want to RP in that way, I guess for me its just weird because I happen to get lycaon and his signature weapon in the standard banner but its not "efficient" to run him with my zhu yuan and nicole since he is neither ether nor from either characters factions. Again its great if you happen to want to run an all victoria housekeeping group but otherwise it seems a little limiting
I had a thought that they could add skins that just changed a character's faction along with their appearance. Like Opol Squad: Outfit for Anby or a Sons Of Caledon: Outfit for Bill Kid. It would be a good way to expand characters stories and factions without needing to add to many new characters.
Yeah that sounds horrible as skins are usually paid exclusive in hoyo games
@@naw613 pls don't spread fake fact coz you only play genshin from mhy
- HI3 do sell some skin with top up currency but it usually B to A rank skin, rarely S rank skin. Most S rank skin in hi3 can be obtain with crystal(hi3 gacha currency) and not too expensive either, they even give out free A rank and B rank skin basically almost every patches. Hi3 even bring back previous old B to A rank skin and allow you to buy it with non gacha and non top up currency.
- HSR don't even have skin yet (ik march change outfit that 1 time but there have been nothing from mhy about how to get it officially yet)
- Genshin is the game that most skin r paid skin but they still give the 4 star skin for free on the patch the skin debut
To be honest I like the idea, though I wonder if we would get enough free ones to give us that flexibility. If we do its certainly an interesting prospect you can have billy join public sec or something that would be pretty funny 😂
Also Bangboo’s can help with this since ones like butlerboo activate Victoria passives
Wait. So if I have Corin and the butler bangboo ill activate her passive?
@@briarbrand6353 I believe so yes
Do bangboos themselves count as a victoria housekeeping character? I didnt know that actually, i thought you needed to have 2 characters so corin & lycaon for example to activate its passive
Eeeeh, I don't think this is really a problem per se, at least not one that needs to be fixed by changing it entirely. Rather, I think it just means that the devs need to be more thoughtful in terms of faction, element, and class when designing future characters. Of course, I also think they're dropping the ball hard already with what's known about several upcoming characters. For example, does Qingyi really need to be an ELECTRIC stun character when every player gets Anby for free? Do the HAND characters who aren't Miyabi really need to be electric element when by then we'll have an electric element of each class, while the physical element still lacks a support, a stun, and even a defense character? Did Jane Doe really need to be physical anomaly when we already have Piper, and in addition to the physical element still lacking the classes mentioned prior the ANOMALY class still lacks characters with a fire, ice, or ether element? The element and class distribution of these early characters is really strange, and I think addressing this will be the first step to creating more diverse team compositions while keeping to the theme of "like attracts like".
I think they are releasing budget and premium versions of a Role.
I dont think it needs a huge fix either, definitely can be 'solved' with some smart labelling though I just wonder how difficult it would be once the roster gets better. I also do agree with what you mentioned regarding public-sec and section 6 characters it seems this really only works if you have a majority of the characters to easily mix and match and if you only have a handful of them pairing them up within a specific faction seems annoying. Though again if more characters are available then I suppose its not that huge a problem but at the same time, do more characters mean more factions?
@@arnowisp6244 Which is fine, and also inevitable given the nature of gacha games, but I would think having a wider variety of options would be a more important priority in the game's early life since most elements are missing two or even three classes to their name. Hell, ether as an element only has two characters PERIOD, which is so bad that Zhu Yuan's extra passive needed to have the condition of "faction or support character" rather than the usual condition of "faction or element" to expand her initial team building options beyond merely Anby and Nicole. Physical as an element also suffers horribly as it currently has three attack characters and one (soon to be two) anomaly, which severely limits the ability to build teams with physical characters in them in general. Yet, for some reason, it seems the first few groups of characters are going to be introducing a boatload of new electricity characters first and foremost... even though we already have plenty of them. And sure, maybe not EVERY person has access to all the current electric characters (I myself only have Anton and Anby at present), but since Rina and Grace are both standard S rank characters, it's also more or less inevitable that everyone will eventually get one or both of them, especially if they plan to nab one as their 300 pulls choice. And, again, the next electric character is an electric STUN, which is a role that a freely-given character already fills quite well enough. That is one of if not the LAST role they should be doubling up on, not the actual first.
@@Maevix3142 There probably will be more factions in the future, especially as the story continues, but I would expect them to also add more characters to the current factions as time goes on, especially at present when they have a trailer that's shown off lots of characters from the factions already in the game. But even when we do get brand new factions, I don't think it'll be an issue since insofar as I can tell, Factions tend to run on specific elemental themes - Half of the Victoria roster is Ice, for example, which fits well with their theme of housekeeping (since ice is basically water which is essential for cleaning stuff) while Belebog is an even split of fire and electric, both of which fit well with their construction theme. While it is too early to say for sure, I would be willing to bet that future characters and factions are going to reinforce this idea that factions have some degree of elemental focus, which will help with pairing characters from different factions together.
on the Koleda/ben synergy that won't actually be an issue thanks to Japanese law not allowing you to separate necessary components into multiple gacha pieces so for example if we get such a 2 character pairing one HAS to be guaranteed free for everyone
Oh. Like Harmony Trailblazer. 😁
This, I was worried when I heard the Koleda/Ben pairing had some extra synergy, but calmed when seeing Ben was given for free.
Thats good to know, at least if such synergies exist we can be sure to have access to it though i hope it stays within the realm of 5star + 4star instead of needing 2 5 stars or something
If I had to guess, they did this kind of design as a derivative of the elemental resonance. They started with something similar and ended up with this, and the reasons to use this system are easier team building for casual players, "force" to design characters that play well with specific characters, and giving more value to pulling thanks to factions. With geshin they learned that having a character in x faction gives players more reasons to pull for them, like players wanting all the archons or all the fatui. The fatui impact you can clearly see in HSR. In that game they doubled down on factions, they made multiples with a lot of members each. But this approach only affects artistically and lore-wise, if you don't care about the story, it has less influence on you, so that is why zzz decided to give it a gameplay purpose too. Right now I don't feel any restriction with this system, even tho I'm using koleda in my ellen team, I don't feel like it's a lot worse for not having the passive, but I think this is thanks to design. They will need to keep designing kits with this in mind so players don't feel like their characters are incomplete without the passive. I'm totally fine with the system. I feel like the pros are good enough to keep the system, and I think if at some point this starts to feel bad, they can ease a lot with giving more conditions to activate the passive, like in Zhu Yuan case. If she had activation with ether chara instead of support, that would be too restrictive, so they changed it. So you can add a 3rd condition to every character. Like Condition 1 same faction, Condition 2 same element, Condition 3 unique. Ex: Grace: Robot chara; Ellen: Ladies; Anby: Soldier 11; Piper: Anomaly chara; Lycon: other furries. Etc.
I think it's best to consider that currently the cast of ZZZ is very small currently, so team comps are limiting currently. But I do get you
Youre right, I just wonder whether when we get more characters does it mean more joining existing factions (which will alleviate the problem somewhat) or are we going to get 4-6 characters and a bunch of new factions
@@Maevix3142 That's true, i'm also abit concerned about this especially with the physical element. It's so criminal because assault does burst damage and all the physical characters are fun to run, but they're made of currently as 3 attackers and one anomaly with the next physical character being jane doe. Although from the looks of things, Jane doe being anomaly isn't so bad since we atleast can pair them with the other Neps agents unlike 2 of physical attackers billy and nekomata who are from the same faction
I don't think it will be, but I'd be wary either way. As a former player of mobile games where factions started to take over the meta, it's very easy to go overboard with tag-based design. I wouldn't be surprised if we see factions start to become more important in Star Rail too.
Right now star rail doesnt limit it much but of course you have FUA supports pair better with FUA DPS but thats still reasonable, with zzz i feel that playing all victoria household chars is just an aesthetic thing, like if the passive activate without that I think not many would run whole faction parties
If you dont give any incentive to combo certain characters together then you just start to lead towards one generic option becoming optimal instead.
Youll start to get situations where theirs one most optimal stun agent for every team or something similar instead
Yeah I get that, it does sort of ensure you have a more varied combination of parties rather than pigeonhole you to only use the same DPS-stunner-support. I guess im just a bit worried that if I ever got lucky with a DPS from a particular faction but dont have any other characters from that faction itll take me ages to be able to play the one I got at their best.
The factions thing will only be a problem if they make Factions that are almost entirely composed of S rank characters. Literally making that faction a Whale Faction.
It's like this with The 10 stonehearts since we know they will all be 5 stars.
Thing is. Both HSR and Genshin encourage you to play the characters together via synergistic mechanics. And even then they can still work outside this as independent units.
The Problem with ZZZ factions is that making them a Central Mechanics means they HAVE to release enough A rank agents per faction to prevent a Character from requiring a full Premium team just to function.
Public Security's Criminal Investigation team is 3-1 S Rank with Seth 😐
If they have let's say 5 units per faction like they have room for I think it will be fine. The issue is more so that Hoyo starts with a small roster and then slowly (but steadily) expands. Plus each unit has a backup condition on top of Faction, if anything I would like to see more open conditionals like have a specific role instead of same element.
I think the issue will become mostly if they try to balance the factions. Like I think it is fair to say Victoria Household would be the strongest faction atm with a strong breaker and dps with an ok support. Soilder 11 has a sniper (could be another dps or breaker) but if she also has like a medic unit (support), a demolition unit (breaker or debuffs) and heavy arms (Defender) could be a well rounded squad).
I think if existing factions can expand with say looser requirements (like zhuyuan) it wont be a problem at all, what im being needlessly worried about is if each faction has 4 characters and a year down the line we have 50 factions or something. Imagine getting 1 character from a specific faction and needing 2 more from that same faction, youd have to wait ages for reruns assuming your luck is good
@@Maevix3142 Well it's Mihoyo won't have to worry about 50 characters for about a year and a half lol. I get your point but I think each faction will still have 4-5 but time will tell.
As of now we have 7 factions which is up to 28-35 characters (currently have 17) from leaks NEPS will fill out in 1.1, 1.2-4 will fill out the special operations and calydon. Then the only one missing is obol squad and by then we should know their plan. I think we might see a counter faction for Victoria Housekeeping led by the Vampire teased in Lycons character story (maybe it is instead focused on individual monsters like Dracula or Jason/Freddy).
i mean, zhu han already has a "suport or faction" unlike the more common "atribute or faction", and filter has "others" in factions, so probably will get some wildcards that would need "atribute or class",
nothing means they can't expand conditions or shake them, honestly? I just want to bangboo count to atribute/factions too.
butler allowing solo-lycaons and amillion allowing solo anby would be cool.
Sadly some bangboos also need 2 atribute/faction to activate their passives too
Im hoping thats where character design moves in the future, I get wanting to sort of push for party diversity but I hope it doesnt become too constraining. A nice middle group between that would be just perfect
Zhu yuan just requires a generic support
Yes but as far as I know shes the only character to have that and I think is also a good way of circumventing this. Plus future characters could come with that flexibility in mind as well but for now im just judging it based on the characters we have and most other dont unfortunately
You're looking at it as a LIMITATION instead of as a BONUS.
You said it yourself: this is a mechanics reflection of the lore. Of course you're going to work better with your factionmates.
I haven't fought Faction exclusive outside of the story missions. I main and stan Anby but I got lucky pulling Ellen and Soldier 11 so I rotate the three of them to build around. And Nicole because Ether seems to be the most common weakness element (I could be wrong).
Most of the time, my teams are just Anby + [A support] + Piper. That support is Rina (another lucky pull, same pull as Soldier 11) or Nicole depending on the weakness of the majority of mobs and bosses.
I have an Ellen + Nicole + Soukaku team for those with an Ice weakness. Soldier 11, I slot for Anby or sometimes tandem her with Anby for funsies (the twins, together!).
I've done well so far. I think I only wiped once in a Rally.
I haven't even built Billy up.
I have Ben and Anton, but Piper is my only Anomaly for now and with her in the team mobs seem to get wiped quickly.
So... yeah. that Faction-specific thing seems to be a BONUS rather than a LIMITATION. After all, elemental weaknesses seem to matter more than anything else as a prim consideration for team comp.
I guess when I mentioned limitation, I was more speaking about not being able to use certain characters in certain group. I still use lycaon with my zhuyuan-nicole team just because I like ol robot legs, but im just needlessly worried that those bonuses become too good to ignore then suddenly I cant activate them because I dont have the 'right' characters. Either way for now at least its not too big a deal and why lycaon is still in the party, just wondering if it might evolve into something worse
this reminds me at the end of the mindscapes. extra skills and more strength if you summon the same / a specific character. so, should they also remove mindscapes?
I mean... as a f2p player, I wouldn't mind that. But that's a bit different since that's an issue of resources, while the faction/element passive is a matter of teambuilding (which is arguably also an issue of resources, but I think most f2p peeps' stance on pulling, including my own, tend to gravitate towards "more characters" over "more copies").
Its a different problem one is about How Lucky/rich you are and the others How many different characters you/the game have
@@jogadoru4 @KyuubiDragon4
but in both cases, you miss something out. However, in terms of mindscapes, everyone sees them as a bonus, but this special enhancement is seen as part of the character basic kit.
In other words: in the first case, you argue that you have 100% of the base kit power, whereas in the second case, people think they lose part of the basic kit, so like having 90% e.g.
maybe adding:
I think the special skill is also a bonus, but it isn't needed. You can optimize your damage, but you can also optimize it with the right weapon, mindscapes, right reliques, correct main stats, correct sub stats and in the end, also with gameplay. So, I would argue it's a way to get a little bit more damage, but it isnt something you have to get every character or something.
Mindscapes make sense for Duplicates. And People already have a Problem if such systems lock abilities that should be part of the character.
*Cough* Amber *Cough*
Limitations makes team building more interesting.
I would agree if you had all characters, but right now me personally I cant efficiently use my lycaon in my zhuyuan team since id lose out on his passive activating. But again its really not a huge issue and I still use lycaon with zhuyuan because I just happen to like butler wolf guy 😂
I think it would allow for niche teams to function
It seems that even niche teams they need to be in the same faction
Only time will tell
Indeed
How do you know if your an average player?
WoUlDnT yOu JuSt Be A cAuSuAl PlAyEr
Sorry I dont understand your question, do you mean how would I know if this is a problem given im an average player?
@@Maevix3142 in the beginning you said you was the average player, how would you know if your the average player? Im joking btw, Its a bit of grammer fun
Ah lol, that went over my head though if you've seen me play during streams there is absolutely no doubt im average at best 😂
@@Maevix3142 no, it's casual. Average means you probably got chapter 3 and stop playing
It's not really that of a big deal. Your argument about Lycaon not being utilized in a Zhu Yuan team is moot because Lycaon is designed for an Ice team to begin with. What you are arguing for is forcing a unit in a team that is not optimal for that unit, which is not even doable in GI or HSR.
In either Genshin or HSR, you can't just bring any character to any team and expect them to perform at fullest potential, like say you want to use Gallagher in a non-super break team, Acheron on a no other Nihility team, Nahida in freeze comp, Cyno in a no Dendro team, Bennett in a transformative reaction EM team, etc.
It's always like this, people complain about things when it's spelled out for them which was otherwise something they were already dealing with finely beforehand unbeknownst to them.
I agree it isnt a big deal and in the video I mentioned that its just a small gripe I have, not being able to use the character I got unless I summoned for Ellen. Eventually when miyabi comes out and I summon for that character ill be able to use my ice team but until then id have to bench the character or use lycaon without that passive which is unfortunate but not game breaking.
I also agree that you cant just bring any mish mash of character in HSR and hope they perform at the fullest potential but at least every part of their kit works (i mean activated not works as in performs super well). Say we talk about harmony MC, if theyre paired with someone like firefly she does a buttload of damage from the super break but you can still pair them with any other character and the super break would still activate. Would it do the same buttload of damage? No but it still activated. In zzz the passive isnt on at all, so im not really talking about efficient partners, I get that hes design for an ice team but to have the passive turned off when its not an ice team feels like a weird limitation
Now dont get me wrong, im not trying to complain for the sake of complaining or anything because again like I said in the video its a minor and ignorable issue one that doesnt ruin the game, I just found it weird to limit it in this way because we also have characters like zhuyuan whos passive activates just from having a support and not limited by faction or element. Zhuyuan can work easily with lycaon as long as you have a support (which you likely will) but lycaon doesnt work with her unless your support also happens to be a victoria housekeeping character, its weird that zhuyuan is flexible but lycaon isnt does it mean lycaon is designed for ice teams but zhuyuan isnt designed for ether teams?
Apologies for the long wall of text, im not trying to be confrontational or anything just want to share my thoughts and reciprocate your comment 😁
It seems like an artificial balancing mechanic to me. If you played yugioh you'll know they started doiing this with archetypes some cards got busted abilities but only if you used them with worse no generic versions of cards that already existed. I presume ZZZ hopes to allow characters passives to get stronger by balancing them out with their team options. This also works to prevent certain game breaking combinations whilst still having powerful abilities.
As for how this will turn out? Only time will tell.
This is not gonna be a problem like year 1
Depends.
Hopefully
this is worrying but as we get more characters i dont think itll be a big problem. with zhu yuans passive needing a support character/faction member and jane doe seemingly not having much synergy with zhu yuan and qingyi makes me think her passive could be same element/another anomaly character. this is just a guess but i feel like they have room to make future characters more flexible with the teammates they can have. HOWEVER if they release faction characters back to back like they are with pub sec losing a 50/50 could be the end for f2p and maybe light spenders
I also agree that the faction system is a problem but my reasoning differs. I think that it just feels cheap and boring to have gameplay like that. The synergies between two or more characters should come from their interaction with the game's core mechanics and not just because the game said so. For example, in Star Rail, we have the famous Herta Himeko pairing. Nowhere in the game does it specifically mention that Herta and Himeko will become stronger when paired together. Their synergistic nature comes from the fact they both utilize a game mechanic called "follow-up attacks" and their follow-up attacks can combo off of each other very nicely. Both characters function just fine on their own but become stronger when in the same team. It makes the gameplay feel more rewarding when players figure out these game mechanics by themselves, and it makes pulling for certain characters feel like bonus rewards rather than a requirement that needs to be fulfilled.
I love ZZZ's combat as a whole, but the faction system is my one and only complaint. In my experience, a good combat system doesn't just tell the player what to do (which is what factions and elements are), a good combat system leaves room for exploration and interpretation for the players to figure out.
Yes I generally agree with this, thanks for sharing it. I do think that himeko-herta pairing is a good example of how 2 different characters can have a synergy that ends up making both better for it but with the faction stuff I just fear we lose out on that. That being said, we can still go ahead and use whatever combinations we want but at the expense of those passives. I guess HSR has that core mechanic like FUA or dot while genshin has elemental reactions but zzz doesnt really have something that cant prop the teams up, i did hear that it once had elemental reactions but was too complicated of a system
@@Maevix3142 ZZZ does have an elemental reaction system, you could pile up different Anomalies (elements) on the same enemy to create a Disorder (reaction). But as of right now, that system is very underdeveloped and underutilized which is why most people don't even know it exist
Ben is free
the way I see it is a bit on the reverse, where I think the elements and combat styles are limiting, and its factions what offer flexibility in team build, Like for example, Zhu Yuan seems good until you realized the loophole, because her passive activates only with SUPPORTS that share an attibute or faction, which means that, say, Belobog Industries gets a Stun Ether agent, if you put them in a team with Zhu Yuan, her passive wont work because it only looks for supports.
What I agree on is that there should be a few more A ranks/4 stars to fit into team slots, and there's also those crazy builds people are coming up with like turning Anomaly characters into DPS, or turning Ben into a stunner, or making Lucy's ultimate oneshot bosses, I think more opportunities for characters to enhance their secondary stats enough that they can fit in for a different role could be a good thing to avoid this strict "best team requires 3 S ranks" situation
bro you cant say we dont have enough 4 star characters from the same team and then procced to say you want to use lycaon over anby your making your point blurry and sounds like you are just complaining
and thank you for making a comparison to genshin as i would like to counter your 2 points from that game
firstly about passives being useless: raiden's best team at C0 is using her as off field electro applier which is basically ignoring 90% of her kit/passives
secondly about characters you want to use and dont want to use: in the video you showed navia and navia wants a geo teammate and all 4 star geo characters succ ass so you either pull for zhongli or chiori the latter also gated behind C1 to make her synergize better with navia
reminder that in genshin you need to pull for 4 characters in a team while zzz is 3 and genshin has healers as a class which zzz doesnt have
Maybe I misworded it in the video but what I was trying to convey was that in a zhuyuan-nicole team, if I want all characters to have their passives activated I cant use the lycaon that I summoned because of the faction requirements so it feels like I have to either choose to play lycaon with no passive or anby with passive. I want to use lycaon but I would also like to have his passive up and the current setup doesnt allow for that
In terms of your first genshin point, I never mentioned that the passives are useless. For zzz i mentioned that the passives right now are not absolutely needed (as in theyre nice to haves) that you can ignore them but I worry if in the future they suddenly become central to the character and for genshin I said that there is no mechanic that requires you to play only certain nations
For the second point, I used navia and zhongli just to illustrate that there is no limitation between nations, thats all. Of course if you want to play the absolute best team then youd need all 4 best characters. For example in star rail, if i wanna play a kafka dot team, running kafka with black swan, ruan mei and huohuo is the ideal setup but there is nothing that prevents me running sampo instead of black swan. The damage will be lower yes, but no part of Sampo's kit is locked off just because he isnt the same faction or something. I was mostly trying to illustrate that there is not faction based restriction in genshin or HSR
That said, this is minor gripe at best like I mentioned in the video and if it did come of as complainy that wasnt my intention, I was just mostly curious about how things might develop and what those potential directions mean for the game😁
@@Maevix3142 oh bro genshin 100% is racist/region locked in many ways
back in liyue they released 2 weapons that get better the more liyue characters you have
the new fontaine sets and characters work better with furina than none fontaine characters
and boi oh boi is natlan even worse with its racism/region lock mechanics
some passives in ZZZ are crucial some are not and it seems like 5 star passives are crucial while 4 star passives are
while lycaon passive is good qingyi is better and more universal and thats how they want to sell new characters to people
slowly but surely powercreep the rooster
we've had niche and universal supports in other mihoho games who are 4 star and 5 star
and we had characters who can only fit in one team cuz their passives are designed around it
you can use sampo instead of blackswan but that is coping the same way you cope with anby until qingyi comes out
do you use a 4 star in the team with core passive up or do you use 5 star without core passive
anby pretty much only stuns and doesnt buff so using lycaon in the team will still give you better results cuz he stuns better than anby with her passive
we play these games to create teams that work around their weaknesses and if the team is not optimal the solution is probably fixed by pulling
This already became a Problem in Genshin with Imaginarium theater because you need so many more Units just to clear it.
It's so weak right now Veteran players are bored.
And new Players just lack the characters to make this mode work.
Ive heard a lot of mix thoughts on imaginarium theater 😂
To be fair hsr dies this as well its just less obvious if you didn’t get Kafka then getting black swan doesn’t help you very much if you don’t have ruan Mei then all the break characters arnt nearly as strong don’t like topaz animations so any follow up team I do will be weaker since I don’t have her zzz if anything makes team build easier as it’s way more obvious what characters you should put together and pull for
Personally I like the team building aspect that is currently there makes me hyped for more characters and it’s one of the reasons I’m not pulling for zhu yuan I understand why the changed her team requirements since there is only one other either character but it removes any team building aspect she would have and doesn’t make me hyped for what future characters I could put her with
Some passives are honestly not that important. Like, nicole's ether dmg bonus passive does not do anything in my physical team but the def shred and CC are still great
Yes youre right, its largely ignorable at this moment I jsut wonder if we will ever get into a situation where the passive cant be ignored, though no sense thinking too much before it happens im just generally wondering 😁
Not all passives are that important, not all of them work the same
Yes you're right, I just wonder if we would ever find ourselves in a situation where the passives become soo good its not something you can ignore
"What if you don't like Anby"
You have no soul.