Electric Danger of Lithium Ion 18650 - Battery Fires Exposed - Possible DIY Solution
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- The danger of Lithium Ion 18650 Batteries and possible Battery Fires Exposed and How to Make Them Safer with a DIY Solution that will work for MOST situations. I was taking batteries out of laptop battery packs and I was getting flashes of shorts when I did not expect them. It turns out the positive and negative parts of the battery are less than 1/8" apart from each other with only a very thin piece of mylar covering them for insulation.
I know many use these batteries for powering e-bikes, in fact I am planning on doing the same. But when i discovered just how close to danger we are to a horrific in-ride accident, I knew I had to find a better method for mounting and protecting them.
These batteries are being put together for my own e-bike build which I am creating here on UA-cam, so subscribe and stay tuned :)
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![Cutting open an LG 18650 battery for science [ amateur video warning ]](/img/n.gif)
He talks about the dangers of 18650 batteries while taking a torch lighter to one.... great job buddy, really upping the safety factor there!
I'm an Electromechannical Engineering Technologist. I have designed many 18650 Lithium-ion Power packs for 6 years now. Did lots of research and tests on them.............and I have
to tell you, I'M STILL SCARED OF THE DAMN THINGS!!!. I have seen the damage
they have done to property, machines, People, laptops exploding at airports and
business meetings...etc.
So two main problems I saw with your video.
the thick wire wrap you used does not properly let it dissipate heat. all batteries have a nominal operating temperature. different chemistries of batteries have different levels. if the battery stays at or above that threshold you risk permanently damaging the cell or it vents or catches fire. also you shouldn't have double wrapped it with your wrap and the original it came with. way more plastic to hold that heat.
2 you removed the plastic insulator ring. that ring is a thick piece of plastic designed that if the battery wrap were to be damaged, that thick tough ring should stop anything to lay across and short it out.
True. In fact he modified the battery to be more dangerous!
should have put the plastic ring back on there...
Just saying...
@@RedSquirrelEater Agree. That ring is important !
Wonder if he did a dielectric breakdown on the original sleeve and his heat shrink ?
Appreciate the informative nature of the video, although I'm sure you've heard this many times before this is NOT a design specific to the 18650. This is the design of almost all cylindrical cells for the last couple of decades. You can verify this by taking apart a standard household AA alkaline battery.
It does seem kind of strange though with the lithium cells on the market now capable of delivering more than enough power to damage themselves and surrounding cells before discharging you'd think the design would have been improved by now.
Good attempt at making the 18650 safer, but you should have re-installed the ring insulator before you used the heatshrink. Hopefully you can still accurately indentify the positive ends after you wrap them with shrink.
🎉 the
So glad someone else knows about this. I had a big Smok X Cube, which unfortunately uses 18650's and you need to get the fast discharge versions too. The big problem is that the X cube can't self charge, so you regularly have to remove the batteries and put them back in again. After 5 days of having one, I'd encountered what a big short was. The battery housing was so tight that it scraped off the protective ring of the battery and shorted them. This resulted in what I can only describe as a firework flying round my living room. I got burns to my hip which have left a scar and the living room needed to be redecorated.
Back on real cigs again now. ahhhhh....much safer.
Put one of these in the same pocket as your car keys and you may go to the emergency room or worse. Thanks for showing how easy it is to short out. I think disposing of the battery once the protection starts to wear away would be best for people using these in portable devices.
So now, how do you distinguish the positive and negative terminals? The scratching really isn't too much of an issue, the "dangerous" part is protected by the little plastic ring you removed.
But I gotta say, the black does look a lot better :)
I was also naive thinking that the positive and negative were only on the opposing ends until just recently I noticed sparks when I plugged a 18650 with a worn coating on the positive end to my e-cig. The battery started leaking right away. I'm glad that I found out this without a more sevear accident! Great vid! I agree that the insulation on these is way too thin and prone to wear off with just normal plugging and unplugging of the battery!
That might be why some of the explode like you may have seen stories of on the news. I do not vape. I have a couple one cell flashlights which I use 18650s and similar batteries in. They are all inexpensive eBay flashlights but I do not use Ultrafire batteries. There are so many potentially unsafe Ultrafire batteries out there that the name has become synonymous with junk. Some people use them but I suspect they may have discharge tested them to find their real capacity before using them in any way. I have seen pics of one that has a much smaller cell rather shoddily wired in and surrounded with some kind of powder. Not only that but batteries of similar quality have outrageous capacity claims. It is easy to get one that has 9000 mAh on the label only to find that it barely even holds a tenth of that when *fully charged*. It is for that reason I resist the eBay specials of fifty for ten dollars and similar sales. That is because you get what you pay for except with those cheap batteries they may even be unsafe.
What got me is the title of the video claiming to make them safer, but in said video you dead short low-drain (probably ICR) to show the neg-pos thing. Even a quick dead short can cause venting. And, I think there is more danger potential with using a wrap that insulates the heat in the battery. If someone has enough know-how to make a battery pack, I am pretty sure they know about the positive and negative post and definitely know not to tamper with or remove the wrap.
If the thicker heat shrink only fits *your* purpose, since you say you'll be using it in a go-kart with adequate airflow to keep them cool, I think the video should reflect that the wraps will work for situations like that, It's not making them safer for your audience if they're not using them in the same way.
S-One
Did you consider the thermal properties of the original plastic coating vs. the shrink wrap you are replacing it with?
The batteries need to have a way to release heat - might not be much, but with every degree they are warmer, they perform worse...
For what I am using the batteries for, this is absolutely fine. Most of the comments on this video are pathetic really, based on partial viewing and not seeing my comments typed using the youtube overlays, explaining myself. I am creating a vehicle with battery storage in an open air holding system. BUT even that has changed over time. I have learned much over time and since making the video, I now see they have nice battery holders which are easy to purchase. The main focus of the video, really was simply to show that the negative and positive terminals are right next to each other. MANY people did not know this, like myself. But I don't mind the comments really as it is simply further exposure. I have a follow up video im working on, which should be fun.
Andrew Jones well you see, I could copy paste my essay (a few HOURS of research) on why these batteries explode on vape mods and all the differences between them, but you don't have a vape in this video, and you just learned the outside of this battery, so I wouldn't bore you with an essay that is irrelevant, but I will say, research how these batteries work before you call the comments pathetic, your truest pathetic for just realizing most of the battery is negative, and I watched you take that plastic piece off the first one and basically toss it, you could have used that, it is plastic and it does provide a small barrier against anything getting in the sleeve
TheRealXesc no don't heatshrink them you are right it can be just as dangerous because depending on how often you charge them and how old they are they have different heat restrictions and while connecting them the heat is going to spread and there all gonna go BANG not nice
they are right next to each other (3mm apart to be exact), thats how they work, that white insulation ring is what protects them in a way, along with an undamaged wrap, if you take the insulator off and put those batteries in a device, any device, the positive connector on the sled will touch the positive and negative, causing a short, and most likely and explosion or fire, whereas with that insulator on and the wrap undamaged this cannot happen.
Protected 18650 cells have a circuit on the negative end of an already wrapped battery with short circuit protection etc and a piece of metal running from that circuit to the positive up the side of the wrapped battery, then another wrap goes on top to cover that, with that white insulation ring still in place, its the most important safety device on the battery
Dude, from your responses, your narsosistic in my opinion. Simply admit that your wrong and remove the video. Its a danger and leading others to believe that this is a good idea is dangerous. I would advise anybody that suffers damage to property or life because of this to sue the pants off you and throw you in jail for life.
So what your video has shown me is, Do not remove the plastic ring at top. Obviously it is there to prevent the bridge. Why would you possibly take it apart to show that? They are designed that way for a reason. Leave the ring, right?
You didn't watch the whole video it seems.
Great video.
I thought the same thing about the entire barrel being negative. I am glad someone took the time to take one apart and show it.
This video should be required viewing for anyone who is undertaking a DIY project using 18650's.
Makes me rethink spring contact battery holders for these cells as well.
tedtrash I was thinking the very same thing! I have not seen the spring mounts done well yet, so was thinking of a slot in battery holder with springs on one end. I'll make videos of whatever I end up doing though for sure. One of the next video's will be of a battery going BAD, shorting etc, just to show how volatile they really are.
Andrew Jones
I'm thinking I might just mask the + terminals on mine and coat the ends in liquid gasket. Then I won't have to worry about the increased diameter of the barrel or getting the shrink wrap fitting right.
Your way is probably better for your application . . . or maybe even do both.
I have cheap Ultrafire batteries for now and have just started getting familiar with them.
I've seen photos of the protection circuits for the more expensive ones, and they just don't seem very robust. Seems too easy a part to fail to trust it to keep the house from burning down.
I keep an old cookie sheet under my charger and only charge them when I have time to work on something in the same room.
You are placing a thicker, more insulating layer which prevents the batteries from cooling as efficiently. Heat dissipation in a battery, particularly Lithium, is important.
While I agree that having the terminal so close is an odd design, battery designers, in general, are well aware of what they are doing...
Laptop battery packs are generally well soldered and nowadays have a very low failure rate.
+RalphSeguin anyone modifying battery packs like myself probably has some kind of understanding like myself of the thermal retention of the packs as the amperage draw builds. For myself, I am creating series of battery packs for an electric bike, which will be vented and cooled much more than normal batteries, plus the whole unit will have a thermal sensor, so the temp will be monitored at all times.
Fully Agree with ralph, the tubing is used for insulation, so if your thermal sensor will measure temperature outside the battery since they are well. Insulated by tubing. Batteries will get hotter easily and no amount of outside cooling will help it since you applied insulated tubes on them. Stay careful and i hope it works well for you. Goodluck bro
I saw your whole video and confirm its informative and "safe" , even without the added comments (which still are good addition). Your points are clear for the general audience so please ignore the senseless comments below.
Thank you Samar! It's unreal how people get, plus a little funny too, to be honest. I appreciate you giving me your feedback. I'll certainly be posting another more indepth video on this subject.
The plastic ring and heat shrink are perfectly adequate. Unless you hold your soldering iron on for too long and melt it. Your dealing with 4.2v at the most,it's not going to jump the gap by any means and those with the new heat shrink wouldn't fit in a 18650 torch anymore.
TheLukey21 This is not for a torch or Vape use. It is for a 4000Watt 192Volt Go Cart / Car I'll be making this summer on UA-cam. ;)
Andrew Jones
Exactly. The double insulating layers would be of use in a flashlight or vaporizer battery that's frequently handled. In a vehicle pack it's not needed just like it's not needed in a laptop pack. The pack is poorly constructed if it relies on the shrink wrap to actually insulate anything while in use.
I don't understand all the dislikes as this video is very informative...
Lets work with flames on a battery, to make it safer. :D
+kain hall
Yes, but the open flambe ?
Just make a better end cap to protect the + and the edge of the -
great video and teaching on safety regarding the 18650 lithium-battery. Wow all you have to do to make them safer is to heat shrink (wrap) them.
Fear and Ignorance always a big seller.
Perhaps the original covering was designed to permit the proper amount of thermal transfer as these batteries often have a high current draw and need to dissipate heat. Also you did not replace the plastic ring insulator. Batteries meant for flashlights and portable equipment should have the protection circuits built into them which will also prevent short circuits, over voltage and under voltage. Batteries out of a laptop power supply do not have protection circuits as this circuit is provided by the equipment. One thing to keep in mind though is that a lithium ion battery when permitted to discharge below (over time) it's safe low voltage level can catch fire as internally copper crystals can form a short circuit. Keep your lithium batteries charged and do not store long term without topping them up. When they are worn out - dispose of them properly. Lithium Ion batteries are wonderful for their large capacity but you do need to educate yourself in their use. As far as the negative and positive terminals being close - you can say the same thing about a typical 9 volt battery. Ever put one of those in your pocket with a handful of conductive coins ;) Why are my pants getting so hot?!!! ;)
+Digger D I threw some NiMH AAs in my pocket with my keys when I was working on a project one day without thinking, one ended up nestled in the keys shorted with one key -> Key ring -> second key. Exact train of thought..."The heck...why is my pocket all hot?"
+Raven1024 we are using ours for head lamps. should I use it?
Huh?
Yeah? They're perfectly safe. Just don't stick em in your pocket with a bunch of metal stuff.
Patti Ingalls All batteries if shorted out (direct connection to both contacts) can catch fire. After all they store energy. Put some tape (electrical preferably) over one end of connection if you are going to put them somewhere where they could short out.
Some nice points, thank you.
Ahh, just like that time Gilligan rewired the professors beacon signal when they heard on the coconut radio that the air force would be testing in the area. Well done sir, well done.
ipissed hehe pretty much
At 1:34 of the video you briefly talk about the "little plastic cap on top". This is a ring insulator which is there to prevent the exact problem you are trying to solve against in the entire video. The insulator is thicker than the wrap which you are applying and I bet it does a better job at protecting against a short. In short, the battery design already accounts for the danger which you are highlighting and all needed components are in place to prevent the short from happening.
It's NOT mylar that they wrap them with, it's merely a different kind of heatshrink tubing to the one you used. Used in the laptop industry since ever without problems. Those of us who use 18650s in torches, ecigs etc are used to rewrapping them in this way when the original heatshrinking becomes damaged, usually around the negative end of the can. The whole can being negative is, as far as i am aware, something that has been common in the battery industry for aeons. I can remember seeing it 25 years ago as a child.
this very thing caused me to have very severe 3rd degree burns on both my legs that required skin grafts.. Those of you criticizing this man and have never been severely burned keep doing what your doing im sure you will see why he posted this sooner or later.
It's an interesting peek into the anatomy of a battery and i really like the first part of the video. I would, however, advice against replicating the part where you roll your own insulation due to (as others are saying as well) changed heat dissipation characteristics and cell dimensions and it appears the custom isolation is not better than stock (remember that fairly thick plastic ring you removed?). I would also be nervous about using a torch on a li-ion cell, but as you say its not really heating the cell.
Ha Ha you cant be serius .....
Removes the isolation ring that prevents short circuit and then heats the hole thing over an open flame xD
THANK YOU! this is very useful and vital information! that's just ridiculous to make a battery like that! they couldn't possibly make the production so that they include an insulator SOMEWHERE, literally ANYWHERE further away from RIGHT NEXT TO THE DAMN POSITIVE?? that's an absolutely terrible design. They need to include information along the lines of DO NOT USE IF THE WRAP ISN'T PERFECTLY INTACT.
Andrew Miller Dude, thank you! I have had a lot of silly backlash from this video. hehe You have to laugh really, but thanks for seeing what i was trying to convey.
you guys have to do some research too. first of all, all 18650 is danger even the manufacturer claim it. ALL except 1 brand is made of used laptop batteries.
also, 18650 was made purposely for flashlights. a lot of expensive flashlight that cost around 100 bucks and more tend to be pickly with some batteries. for example, your electrical shrink wrap will not be able to fit flashlight because its not too thick.
you can put anotation on the video.
Andrew Jones I Think the thing is all batteries are made like that, and have been for some time, this isn't news
For you possibly, but for many that have thanked me for letting them know this, it was news. Just saying.
BlueRice
I can see you're trying to be sarcastic here, but most readers would not understand. Let's state the facts.
18650 is made for industrial use in battery packs. Individual cells are not consumer products.
Flashlight use is just an application of existing technology.
Individual cell batteries are not typically recycled junk, but brand new cells. Only poor cheapo chinese junk is recycled waste.
Cylindrical li-ions are risky, but not because of structural details causing a possible short. That is paranoia.
i thought this was already known, thats why they make the insulating rings
As a fire sprinkler fitter 25 years the only actual sprinkler activation I've attended due to fire was caused by a laptop being charged on a carpet next to a couch. Nowadays anything I charge I do so on a flat non flammable surface. However in this case the enemy of lithium batteries is heat. This thick insulating material will not aid in cooling so I'd guess the batteries won't last as long.
Thanks for pointing out the design and construction flaws which apparently are not common knowledge for the general public. I'll be sure to be extra vigilant for any possible problems while working with these batteries.
Thank you very much indeed Adam Pierce Its funny how much grief I got over this, hehe I have created and invented so much over my time and I had never taken apart from batteries like this. Hence the video.
Andrew Jones Ignore the haters. It's all jealousy on their part. Their poor pathetic lives lack any real semblance of reality so they have to hate on other people.
consaka1 It's all good. I don't mind the haters too much. The idiots help drive my views. :)
you do not need to heat shrink the whole battery..just put on a half inch or so of heat shrink on the positive end...
When making videos about these batteries , I think a prior video should be shown of how dangerous these can be and what happens. Then people will think twice about relying on factory wrap.
Very informative, thanks for the advise. I got myself some good shrink tubes to wrap my batteries.
The information is perfect, but the execution is dangerous. You never put heat on a lithium battery, and you also never short-circuit a lithium battery without protection.
Maybe it's only me, but please, people if you intend to modify those batteries in that way, make sure you do not cover the venting holes on + side.
may be protected from bouncing and shorting but it will retain heat like a s.o.b. manufacturers put specific coatings on certain products for a reason and this coating helps the battery vent
Use the nylon washer you removed as its more durable than just your shrink tubing
If you are building packs for motorized scooter or other high impact items use the plastic holders designed for them
You can see a sample of these being used on the electric samba page
Andrew thank you very much for the informed video that you made and which many people who speak about this subject regarding 18650 lithium battery cells overlook. My questions happens to do with handling 18650 batteries coming from an old laptop/notebook battery that I took apart; Q. How does one discharge charged 18650 batteries that all currently fully or partial charged and since the batteries came in pairs how to I remove the metal connector on the positive and negative without arcing myself or causing them to explode? Also, these batteries I am experimenting with are for a power bank charger used on smartphone - Iphones, Android and I would like to know more about its handling safely and it is proper to use such batteries for this project?
Bladi Viquez I would get some neodymium magnets to trap wires under each end of the battery and find a bulb or a small 4 or 5volt motor etc. to drain the remaining energy from the cells. Or if you have a balanced charger device, you could also use it to drain the batteries I believe, though have not used that function yet. Try not to damage the 18650 or similar types as I have heard of them blowing up after months of sitting around, slowly getting hotter. There are plenty of videos out there showing this. Though am thinking I may show a video of one of mine in a "controlled explosion". How are you rigging your batteries for your project Bladi?
My plans with much information like the one you have provided thank you again! Is for using these 18650 batteries for a power bank chargers which are a Do-It-Yourself kits. Now with this said...my concern has to do with what kind of 18650 batteries I should really be using as the some places say that I must use 18650 protected which are costly but better, but what about the ones one takes from the laptop batteries precise for these projects people experiment for power bank chargers, E-bikes, and other hobby projects? Are they safe at least for usage as I don't want to sell to a customer a power bank charger kit ready to use only to find out that it will blow up in their pants, or purse..you get me! Please help and all recommendation is welcome as I am taking a very informed measure for such endeavor and would like to include safety...thanks!
Andrew also almost forgot to ask...Is it good or safe to solder with a soldering iron an 18650 battery unprotect while it is still charged? Or is it better to uncharge it and then proceed?
Hahahaha you take the protective ring off then claim it's unsafe....
I have about 16 of these 18650's and use them in a variety of dive torches, never had an issue.
+chapmasi The video maker is just pointing out the dangers and letting people better understand how a battery is built and where problems can occur. Yes, putting a single and unmodified cell into a torch is pretty safe and i wouldn't expect there to be a problem. The problems can possibly occur when inexperienced people combine many cells into a battery pack. They may solder cells, which is very bad for the cell, and can mean the insulation is damaged. If the cells are not properly secured and physically isolated from each other, the case of adjacent cells can short out, if the insulation wears through over time. There are many ways in which issues can occur when multiple cells are combined. Using old rejected cells is yet another variable that could result in problems. Building batteries from multiple cells is not something to be taken lightly and i don't think it is a good idea unless the person has a pretty good understanding of electrics and how cells/batteries function.
my flashlight switch got reaally hot because it shorted the battery, battery didn't burn but the switch melted...
There is few problems with doing this
1st. Heat transfer from the battery gets impacted.
2nd. expendability of battery. When battery heats up it expends, but when heat-shrink heats up it does opposite, it contracts.
3rd. To properly charge 18650 bms needs to sense temperature.
Many if not most non original notebook battery replacement availabe in Brazil come from China and have this CJ cells.
I actually bought a replacement pack for a Toshiba notebook that could power it but did not charge.
I opened both the original Toshiba (Sanyo OEM) and the NoName (CJ cells??). There is a clearly visible quality difference, including in isolation and protection.
Packs are 3S(2P) of those 18650 cells, with a tap from each of 4 serial voltage points to BMC board that holds protection and interface to the notebook.
Original Toshiba has 2 thermal sensors, and replacement has 1.
The most striking problem seen in the new NoName replacement is that the weld spotted metal holding a pair of parallel 18650 cells together would actually scratch the isolation, as the hypothesis of this video, and fire internally burning half of the metal shunting the cells and auto extinguishing before something worst happened!
Clearly this isolation is not up to the task, and that lack of quality in both design and implementation put consumers at risk.
Toshiba-Sanyo modules had extra sheets of insulating material to avoid frinction and contact.
Those are UNPROTECTED cells that rely on the BMC board for protection. A short in a single 2P arrangement has absolutely no protection to avoid a fire or even an explosion.
The pack has an UL inscription, but I would not be surprised if it ware a fake one.
The plastic ring on top made the battery safe, shorts along the negative side are usually towards grounded screws anyway so those are harmless.
Safer before you started. Especially since you left off the plastic ring. If you really wanted them to be safe, heat shrink without taking the plastic ring and the outer covering off.
why remove the protective ring what if sum conductive things slips through or sum conductive dust builds up there?
Very helpful video. However, a cheap hot air blower would make tube shrinking much easier. Liked
Stankenfrein Thanks so much. Yes agreed on the hot air blower. I've always used an open flame briefly with no bad outcome. All the best!
Andrew Jones It's just kind questionable to talk about safety and then using a flame to shrink the wrap. No hair dryer available? I use a hair dryer all the time.
Patti Pender I've been using a flame for over 15 years with no issues ever. ;)
ALLL batteries have negative body. Well there is few mostly 9volts, but rest is always negative whole battery and i think everybody who uses batteries knows that :)
Even the common alkaline batteries are like that too. I can not think of anyone who doesn't have a few of those lying around and it is because so many things use them in one size or another.
True for one part but false for the part that everyone who uses batteries know this. Everyone has batteries and don't know what they do and have no idea that the whole thing is negative besides the positive end.
The most dangerous video I have ever seen on UA-cam I hope no one follows
The problem is that if I wanted to then put that battery into my torch or vape, it's going to be the wrong size. Making them functionally useless for something designed to take them.
+Rob H (BuddyVape) You can see at 11:25, that a pack of 4 batteries is 1/8 " wider than normal, so each is 1/32 " thicker, which is actually too much for many torches...
We get it, you pave.
dyslexias a bitch
You don’t need to do this if ur useing them for a flash light or vape just check now and then for any rips in the battery wrap or insulator cap if you see any buy new premade 18650 battery wraps easy to put on using a hairdryer (alway replace the insulator ring when rewrapping)
Will they slide into a flashlight ? Once in light can they be removed ? Seems to me a tube designed for protection would be in order ? A battery carrier designed to carry multiple batteries perhaps?
Wow that seems a little sketchy having positive and negative so close to together. I am glad I watched this. That's good to know. It looks like you could potentially short out a battery just by spilling a little water on the top of the battery.
Hello
Is it not better use, liquid tape with the plastic ring on the top?
Regards Thomas
What is the size of the heat shrink tube that you used? The problem with some of the heat shrink tube out there is that it makes the batteries more thicker and if you end up sticking your batteries back into your flashlight they would not fit again! I think that the round plastic that you took off from the first battery thats is what prevents the sshort to happen, thats why at the end you ended up sticking the whole battery in the heat shrink tube!
Yes agreed Santiago. I simply purchased regular heat shrink tubing from a local electrical store. At the end of the video I show how much extra in size it adds to the batteries, although the measurements on the tubing say: 3/4" Thin Wall Polyolefin, Part No. 47-20948-BK, Recovers to 3/8" Ratio 2:1 I hope that helps some.
Thank you Andrew. Enjoyed your video.
santiago vindell Thanks so much Santiago.
Thicker 'skin' will preclude cells from fitting into plastic mounting spacers. Replacement plastic insulator rings are readily available.
Very helpful
Thanks so much
thank you. a lot of people bitching about how dangerous litium ions are (and yes they sure can be) you are one of the few that expressed some of those concerns in a constructive way with education. next up someone needs to do a video on ir testing with a scope and signal gen. that might be me soon but im still building my lab. I was in a commercial space but the owner of the "electronics repair" store attempt knew nothing and didnt want to put any future profit sharing in writing even though he was using 5k worth of my equiptment every day. so my apt/flat is currently being converted which is a major pain in the ass. BTW get yourself a 50 usd adjustable temp heat gun on ebay "smd rework station"
Thanks for this video. I'll do it same way as you.
Thanks for this, really helpful!
Was wondering if replacing the coating with a heavier wrap would cause the battery to retain the small heat that they make under normal usage to actually over heat the battery and shorten its lifespan?
Probably James Gulrich You're probably right. The end purpose of my own situation will be very different, as they are vented and open to the air flow in the go-cart or Car I will be building this summer on UA-cam. Though plan on carrying out a few experiments on UA-cam to discover if this is true or not.
Good explanation on the fire risk of 18650 battery. Shall take necessary preacuation.
Yeah. The Indian Kid UA-cam videos about making scooter and bike batteries out of 18650's all use those ubiquitous white washer tabs to prevent short circuts on the top pole of the 18650's. Which seem to prevent fires and work well!
so your afraid of shorting your battery and having it blow up but your not afraid of putting a torch to it, uuuukay seems pretty legit lmfao
Nice video, trouble is manufactures use cheap heat shrink most batteries on the market are the same.
They were fairly safe until you left out the insulating ring.
6:50 I'm glad you discovered this too
I would say that all A, AA, AAA batteries has similar construction and even NiCd and NiMH will cause heat and burn if you shorten them out. No news, has been like this for 15-20 years at least..
Seeing as how over 40% of the ratings for this vid are thumbs down, I'm sure somebody else has already said this, but this is a time consuming way to make these batteries more dangerous. There is virtually no danger to having the sides of the battery exposed. In cars, the negative battery terminal is connected to to the frame of the car. The frame, engine, and body all have negative potential, just like the sides of these batteries, and it's fine. The only danger is if you have an unfused wire or object close it. Then again, your wire should be insulated anyway. The only real danger would be if the top of the battery was abraded or damaged in some other way so that a metal object would contact the positive end and the negative metal right next to it (just like the wire you used in your video), or if an impact deformed the battery to make these two portions of the battery contact each other. In both cases, the best thing you could do to protect against a short would be to put an impact and abrasion resistant material at the interface between the positively and negatively charged metals, just like the ring it came with from the factory. That ring will take a lot more beating than the heat shrink it was replaced with.
I went back and watched your video again and you were right, I stand corrected.
Good man. :)
I do a lot of these shrink wrapped batteries and yes it was silly to take off the protective plastic ring.
Also you should have left the ring on when shrinking and if you have a lot to do it is so much easier to stick them under a grill and watch them all shrink together.
These batteries will take some heat as they do get hot in extreme usage anyway.
Many battery powered devices, like camera flashes, will not accept a thicker insulation.
i would have made sure the positive end was lined up and shrank first correctly so all trimming and adjustment can happen on the safe negative terminal
Good Idea but-
just add 10 mm ring of shrink tube around positive end-
no need to cover entire battery extra shrink tube -
will also make batteries hotter -
You mentioned when you were getting sparks while opening laptop battery packs, generally if a lipo battery shorts out on itself it's done like dinner for good.
But you will find this with all batteries, that's why they use the insulator around the body of the cell, how you configure them is up to you or the designer of the product.
Often devices that use these types of battery use some kind of card separator to support the cell, and they have hot glue to hold them solid in place to minimise movement between the cells.
flitsies Yes, I had no idea. Funny as I work with batteries very often. But now I am building an electric vehicle, its the first time I actually took the coating off and quite surprised.
Andrew Jones You will find ordinary disposable cells can also catch fire if shorted out, that's another good reason not to put what is considered dead batteries in normal trash/rubbish bins because they could short out and catch fire.
It's not likely to but it could happen especially if they have been tampered with.
I don't see why the standard plastic wrap is unsafe and needs improving ?
In my experience, I don't find the black rubber shrink wrap that you've applied particularly protective against sharp objects - in fact, I'd go as far as saying the original plastic is tougher.
If you're going to bundle the batteries together, why not just add extra protection around each pack and leave the individual batteries as they are ?
And I don't envy you soldering tabs between the battery terminals - if you've got a mini spot welder, then fair enough, but I'd say the risk of soldering dozens of batteries is greater than the risk of leaving them in their plastic wrapping.
I've done similar projects but on a much smaller scale (cordless power tools etc..) and I just use a battery holder. It means I don't have to do anything to the batteries and they can be replaced if required. Could you not just get a few of these: www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Pointed-Batteries-Battery-Holder/dp/B00CQKAZES/ref=sr_1_24
Good luck with the project though - I'm not meaning to put you off :)
Good job !! have you got a link to the heatshrink are you using ?
rickburnout666 Thanks Rick, I'll double check what i have here and get back to you today I'm sure.
All cylindrical cell batteries (AAAA - 26650) are like this; the entire outer casing is negative, and the "button" is positive.
Now you can have a fire because the battery got to hot. The casing on the negative is fine as it was designed. With two layers of covering the battery internal temps are sure to increase.
Walter Sudymont
Two layers of wrap is an industry standard in any protected battery. There is the original cell wrapping and the outside wrap after installing the protection circuit. Extensive field use experience proves this is not a problem.
+TheVessapaperimuumio The problem is he's probably going to end up with 3 layers. Original, Heat Shrink, then one over the whole pack. Then possibly the pack inside a box of some description. It's unlikely to cause issues, but it could.
I would say just do the top 3/4 inch and leave the rest if you are uncomfortable.
I like your idea but I would not use heat tube be cause of the heating process I would use electrical tape also I would mark the positive side on the tape if there going to blow it is most likely the wrong polarity that caused it
Ryan B Yeah, not a bad idea Ryan, though in my playing, the heat that is used isn't too bad and had never affected my batteries life. Though am playing with some testing over the last few weeks to see what's best.
In addition to my previous post, one has to ask oneself if a person who didnt know the things you yourself admit to not knowing should be disassembling laptop batteries and planning to use lithium battery chemistry in very high load situations on diy equipment. The can being negative is almost all cylindrical cells, that's basic stuff. And has been for decades.
While these batteries are just fine within laptops. Thousands upon thousands have played with DIY projects for a long time now, opening up the safety aspects to a completely different genre of usage and dangers that a laptop battery set up would never encounter. Though from time to time even those batteries blow up too. I don't care about the e-cig community as that's not really my thing, though looking at how they use them is of course beneficial.
Inventing is my thing, designing is, creating something that has not been created before is. My particular battery assembly is for an e-bike (under construction) hundreds are creating this style of transportation using 18650's and doing so using all kinds of configurations.
Being a teacher, I instill within my students the need to try things, to endeavor to learn new things, for where would many of the great designers and inventors of the past have gone if they listened to such comments. All of the great innovators of the past made many mistakes before making the right choices. Edison tried over 10,000 different substances in making the filament of an incandescent lightbulb until he found one material that lasted long enough to make the lightbulb cheap enough to sell and make money off of. How far would he have gone is he listened to neigh sayers? You are lucky people took chances, explored scientific boundaries and experimented with various methods of doing things, for it is because of this you are able to type this message to me.
You are missing the whole point of the video. Which is fine, I am not to persuade or prove you wrong, your decision and choices are yours. Me? I watch a video and cheer someone on if they have made a mistake, I possibly suggest they look at it from another angle. Positivity can be a great influencer, and mostly I would never usually respond. I think as a community, we should help each other, cheer each other on, pass on our knowledge and help each other to grow.
I have been inventing stuff for over 42 years, with everything from explosives to electronics to inventing and creating machines and beyond. A piece of mylar or heat shrink will not stop me from doing what I love. And those that think they know more or are better than, well fantastic for them, but I'm enjoying and loving my own journey John.
Very useful tip thanks 😊 👍
Great video! Would that piping fit a 18500 battery?
Dalton Mccorkle Thank you. The same tubing would fit the 18500, just cut it shorter is all.
So you rip off all the protection and it explodes. So if you don't rip off the protection, does it still explode?
i wish they would of just stuck with NiMH battiers, that use the same cell types as Akaline batteries. They were improving the capacity of NiMi batteries such that they were getting close the capacity of LiPo and Lithium Ions. They were cheaper to boot. They were making 4500 mah 7.2 and 9.6volt R/C car racing packs 50% cheaper than 5000mah 7.4v Lipo packs. I would pay the same price as an Lithium battery just because I feel safer using and storing the NiMh packs.
Techie Fan I think we are on the verge of having a brand new type of battery tech that will be even better. I feel batteries are going to be one of the next big break throughs for us all.
Haters or not, they do have a good point. You are deliberately removing all of the factory protection on this battery, and deliberately placing a metal item across the terminals to short it out, and then replacing the protection with heat shrink tubing. You mentioned several times in this video how something could nick or scratch or cut the factory protective wrapper and then cause a short, but what I don't understand, is what you would be using this battery for, where there would be a risk of it getting cut, nicked, or scratched. I have never seen batteries even remotely similar to these that were not encased in something protective, like a flashlight body, or the plastic housing with which they use these in e.g. laptop battery packs (an oft-overlooked source of these batteries in still-serviceable condition). I'm curious, just what could possibly nick, cut, or scratch the protective sheath on this battery, and then cut through the phenolic spacer on top, and then short out the positive and negative, while the battery is properly installed in a flashlight or a battery pack?
Ah, I see now these were sourced from such an oft-overlooked source, as I continue the video.
Also, I read someone else's comment about using direct flame on these batteries to shrink the heat shrink tubing. Obviously you know this apparently they don't, but you're not eating the battery up as much as one might think. The heat shrink tubing is going to absorb the majority of the heat, and very little of that by comparison will be transferred to the battery. So in reality, it's not as dangerous as people are making it out to be... Kind of like the protective wrapper the factory put on it.
1986turbozcs These batteries are used by thousands of us to power things much bigger than flashlights. I'm building a vehicle, and in an accident this design flaw would be a huge issue.
Andrew Jones gotcha, i apparently missed that. In that event, sure, the thinner wrapper would do no good. ;)
Would it be safe to use insulation tape instead of the rubber tube?
As far as I know all batteries are like this and have always had a -ve case up to the top. There are greater risks with an 18650 so the heat shrink is a good idea but I would not get too worried about it.
I want to ask you, I have a fairly new 18650 battery, but earlier I dropped it and it spit out a liquid like water, I checked the voltage is still normal, is this not dangerous if I still use the battery?
I would recycle ♻️ it. I’m sure having it’s guts spill out isnt a great sign
Andrew I know exactly what your saying I was very concerned also so when I built my 147 ah pack for my solar power, I also wrapped all the cells inside a fire blanket, then added vents and sealed the whole lot up in Robnor Resin the fire retardant stuff semi flexible it has a texture similar to Rubber.
What about the heat? Does it dissipate well?
@@anonymous175 I don't draw much power from it, it's now 2023 over 8 years later still no issues.
So you converted 18650 batts into 19651 batts by removing the insulation and replacing it with heat-shrink, or by putting heat-shrink over the original insulation, and in the process of doing so discovered that when you remove the insulation and short the exposed terminals out, current flows. in the process you may have also adversely affected the batteries by over heating when heating the heat-shrink, and you have no idea how what you've done will affect their heat dissipation. Did I miss anything out?
+Denis McMahon yes, you missed much. But glad you got that off your chest.
does 18650 requires an overcharge proyection and if yes then how to build that cutoff circuit
I did something similar for my 18650 that i use in my flashlights. But i didn't use shrink tube because is to thick and they didn't fit, i just used transparent duct tape to insulate them better.
Good job Victor. These batteries in the video are being put together in series and parallel to create a battery pack from an electric bike I am creating which will be here on youtube this summer. The size restraint doesn't matter in my use thankfully.
Andrew Jones
Yes i realized that in your case is not a problem but for my space was a problem. And honestly when i see how fin the protection is on this accumulators, i thought that if i use them in a high power drainage flashlight i better reinforce the insulation on them.
Victor C Yes, better to be safe.
Andrew Jones
That's my moto to ;-)
Nice job on the video keep up the great work, at 10:00 how did you make that lighter that is made for grills and lighting candles how did you make it act like a blow torch?
"Look how how dangerous theses batteries are when I take off all the protective coating" no shit Sherlock. "Look how flimsy the original protective coating is while I have trouble tearing it". "Watch how I put a double coating on so you can't actually put it in your none conductive plastic coated device anymore". Give this man a clap..... Sorry that was a misspelling, should of read slap
thanx, I did not know this about the negative body
Hi all!
How to preserve a 18650 for a long time without using it? 80% charge once every 6 months, and store it in dry and room temperature, or fully charge it and leave it for a 1year, or 2? Thank you!
You messed up by not putting the plastic back in the first one. That little nylon ring is much tougher than the shrink wrap.
Also soldering directly to the cells is a very bad idea. There's a reason they spot weld a thin strip of metal in the professionally made battery packs. Soldering without doing internal damage to plastic seals inside the cell is very difficult.
Just got deep into electronics for the first time. Reading 12 grade/college textbooks on DC, AC ohms law, learning how to read circut diagrams and got my first multimeter, (geeking out measuring stuff with it). I wan't to build my first lithium ion battery with 18650's. Maybe 40 amp hrs. With that many cells (can I balance them in parallel like LiFePO4 cells and get a good bluetooth BMS?) Do you need to harvest them sparingly, carefully? Only go with the best ones, and your ok. Assuming you have a temp sensor BMS with overheat auto shut down software on it, - can I go as high as 50 - 80 amp hr a 18650 celled battery and be safe from fires? The battery will be in a UA-cam Vanlife Van. Also where's the best place to harvest 18650's