I liked Ma Lin because he had the best of both worlds. He could use his RPB and also block in the old style. No matter which style you use, all the fundamentals still apply.
Another advantage of the penholder grip is that it's much easier to play in the crossover area between forehand and backhand, where shake handers often get confused and struggle. Also, because you can hold the bat close to your body, it's easier to play relatively attacking shots if you get tucked up. Shakehand players often struggle if you hit the ball towards their right arm, as they can't move their feet fast enough to create room to return it (I often serve long into this area, opponents hate it!) - with the penholder grip you can get the bat by your side and return it. Another well-known advantage is the power you can generate especially on the forehand side - push three fingers into the back of the bat and sweep through the ball, then watch it go!
I’ve been a penholder for decades. Learned the RPB. But my backhand flick with RPG is not as strong as FZD and Ma Long when I experiment with shake hand because my thumb is not behind the blade. I’ve also tried for years and have never mastered an inside out, reverse pendulum serve. As an older pen hold player I find myself drifting to the classic backhand. Lastly, without such stars like Ma Lin, Wang Hao there may not be any further development of the style. An example is Japanese pen hold is all but dead.
no the classic j pen style is good but there is no professional player right now, but chinise pen hold xu xin is among top ten player , you can play classic pen hold both with jpen and ch.pen you need a proper coach and lots of practice.
withthe ball at current size and weight, jpen is dead for sure. That's the reason cpen is going downhill too. The players can't generate as much spin as 38mm ball era
I played with a shakehand grip for four years, but my wrist kept wobbling when hitting forehand shots, and my grip felt unstable. So, I've been practicing with a Chinese penhold grip for the past two weeks, and I am satisfied. First of all, the forehand angle is quite good. Also, for the backhand, it's not too difficult for someone who has played with a shakehand grip to some extent. Moreover, forehand receive and chiquita are much easier. In my opinion, it might be easier for amateurs to start with a penhold grip from the beginning.
I am 14 yo i have been playing for 4 years with shakehand but I like playing pen hołd for fun and I love forehand my backhand is not So Good should I play pen hold??? Also I play in club but we do not have penhold coach
3:22 Why the fuck does he scream for a bad recieve. It would be kinda okay if it was a good point, or a match point but it was none of those. It was rude.
@ I have tried that before, but it doesn’t feel natural for me. And its hard for me to do rpb that way. But I can try it again and give it another try with more time :)
i disagree with the "elbow weakness" its only an advantage if you play traditional penhold and not rpb. but yes if you want to just try it out. i have switched last season and its fun
Hast du echt von Shakehand auf Penholder gewechselt? 😂 Wie lange hat der Sprung bei dir gedauert und in welcher Liga spielst du? Würde auch gerne wechseln, um mal wieder Spaß zu haben etwas neues zu lernen.
@@malongfan7772 Jap und bin glücklich damit. Bezirksklasse/liga du? Da meine Aufschläge sehr gut sind und Vorhand Topspin sich auf dem Niveau nicht sooo viel unterscheidet zwischen beiden Griffarten ging es schnell. 3 Monate vielleicht um wieder mitspielen zu können. Aufschlagannahme geht extrem viel besser als mit Shakehand und allgemein die Freiheiten überm Tisch sind finde ich der größte Vorteil und auch Spaßfaktor. Rückhand überm Tisch ist noch etwas mein Problem. RPB generell gewöhnungsbedürftig. Man muss sich halt komplett selbst coachen, aber das geht mit UA-cam ganz gut.
@@niklaskras5498 Danke für deine Antwort, was für ein Holz spielst du? Haben ja nicht so viel Auswahl hier in Europa. Ja genau das mit dem coachen muss man sowieso auch bei Shakehand selber machen, wenn man keine Trainer hat im Verein. Denke mal ich versuch den Spaß mal :D Hatte mal Verbandsliga/Landesliga eine Zeit Ersatz gespielt, jetzt denke nach der Verletzung auf Bezirksliganiveau. Da ich nochmal mit TT nun mit 24 anfangen will, hab ich aus Spaß es mal probieren wollen. Denke man kann evtl. einen Vorteil haben, da die Gegner ja nie dagegen gespielt haben, aber der neue Ball macht die RPB Rückhand schwächer glaube ich. Wang Hao hatte ja da die Vorteile damals mit Zelluloid, anscheinend ist das mit dem Plastikball nicht mehr so von Vorteil.
@@malongfan7772 Ja stimmt, das Problem hatte ich am Anfang auch. Habe dann eine Suche auf Ebay Kleinanzeigen aufgemacht und hat sich einer gemeldet. Habe ein Stiga Allround Classic, ein Yasaka Sweden Extra und ein Palio Cat, das für ein Noppenexperiment auf dem Weg zu mir ist. btw: woher wusstest du, dass ich deutsch spreche? :D Trainiere auch ab und zu mit Verbands/Landesliga Spielern und die haben öfters mal Probleme mit kreativen Bällen die man als Penholder leichter spielen kann. Also ja schon ein kleiner Vorteil. Probier es ruhig aus, vielleicht hast du dadurch mehr Spaß am TT, so wie ich jetzt und notfalls wechselst du wieder zu Shakehand zurück. Ich finde das Plastikball Argument ehrlich gesagt immer vernachlässigbar. Die Leute haben trotzdem genauso wie vorher Probleme mit extra spinnigen Aufschlägen, blocken Topspins reihenweise über die Platte etc.
@@niklaskras5498 schaust ja auch den Daniel Porten, da du da immer kommentierst wusste ich dass du deutsch sprichst. Ja hab ein Avalaox P500 im Blick um genug Katapult für ein Hurricane 3 zu haben. Kennst du ein gutes Video bzgl. Technik für VH Topspin bei Penholder. RH Topspin ist logisch, aber wie geht da der VH?😂 Willste wie Liu Guoliang Noppen auf der VH spielen?
The wrist and direction advantages are great at the table, for spins and surprise placements, especially for quick minded players. Most of us are not and do not play against elite players. We and our opponents are not trained athletes with strong muscles, ultra fast movements and great stamina. At low to intermediate levels and for older players, I personally think it's advantageous to play penhold and to learn from the elite women than from the elite men so you don't depend so much on power and running speed but on quick returns, spins and placements that control the game. Make your opponents run! I think choosing of styles depend much on your physical conditions and skill level as well as the people your play with.
@@syzygy6769 do you think I as an 10year+ shakehand player can change to penholder and achieve his old level? I want to change cause of shoulder injuries...
@@malongfan7772 I guess you have to find out by trying, if you think it will be better for your injuries. Perhaps you may adopt and enjoy different play strategies with the new hold to reach a high level with a different style. Practise and patience!
@@austinkristian2945 Depends on who you are playing against sometimes. I feel comfortable back from the table using the RPB, but if you are playing someone who themselves waits close to the table and plays the angles this doesn't always work, then I step in a bit.
I liked Ma Lin because he had the best of both worlds. He could use his RPB and also block in the old style. No matter which style you use, all the fundamentals still apply.
He was really mainly a TPB player... with the occasional RPB thrown in for variety or more offense.
Another advantage of the penholder grip is that it's much easier to play in the crossover area between forehand and backhand, where shake handers often get confused and struggle. Also, because you can hold the bat close to your body, it's easier to play relatively attacking shots if you get tucked up. Shakehand players often struggle if you hit the ball towards their right arm, as they can't move their feet fast enough to create room to return it (I often serve long into this area, opponents hate it!) - with the penholder grip you can get the bat by your side and return it. Another well-known advantage is the power you can generate especially on the forehand side - push three fingers into the back of the bat and sweep through the ball, then watch it go!
Excellent skill! Bravo Felix!
the penholder was absolutely amazing..!!!!very consistent for europe penholder...
he is top 5 world right now :)
I use shake hand now since I play with long pimples. I sometimes switch to cpen to experience the RPB which is my favorite stroke.
I’ve been a penholder for decades. Learned the RPB. But my backhand flick with RPG is not as strong as FZD and Ma Long when I experiment with shake hand because my thumb is not behind the blade. I’ve also tried for years and have never mastered an inside out, reverse pendulum serve. As an older pen hold player I find myself drifting to the classic backhand. Lastly, without such stars like Ma Lin, Wang Hao there may not be any further development of the style. An example is Japanese pen hold is all but dead.
no the classic j pen style is good but there is no professional player right now, but chinise pen hold xu xin is among top ten player , you can play classic pen hold both with jpen and ch.pen you need a proper coach and lots of practice.
withthe ball at current size and weight, jpen is dead for sure. That's the reason cpen is going downhill too. The players can't generate as much spin as 38mm ball era
Using a traditional cpen style, Yoshida Kaii is still playing in a Japanese pro league quite actively.
@@urbanknight2808 really yoshidakai using the ch. pen blade and using fore hand as a back hand? is he playing in Japan pro league?
Ah... So your other shots ARE as strong as FZD & Ma Long⁉️
I played with a shakehand grip for four years, but my wrist kept wobbling when hitting forehand shots, and my grip felt unstable. So, I've been practicing with a Chinese penhold grip for the past two weeks, and I am satisfied. First of all, the forehand angle is quite good. Also, for the backhand, it's not too difficult for someone who has played with a shakehand grip to some extent. Moreover, forehand receive and chiquita are much easier. In my opinion, it might be easier for amateurs to start with a penhold grip from the beginning.
@@트레이딩일지 do you play penhold with curl fingers or like xu xin? For me personally the curl fingers is more comfortable and easier to play with
Of course
En ek backhand PowerPoint no estoy muy de acuerdo, si le das bien, es de 10, es ganador el punto!😅
Felix is amazing. But damn. That other guy was 🔥
I am 14 yo i have been playing for 4 years with shakehand but I like playing pen hołd for fun and I love forehand my backhand is not So Good should I play pen hold???
Also I play in club but we do not have penhold coach
Yes
Thanks a lot Harimoto. See what you did to these kids?
3:22 Why the fuck does he scream for a bad recieve. It would be kinda okay if it was a good point, or a match point but it was none of those. It was rude.
@@jl6842 No? It was a good serve, and he wanted to get pumped for the last part of the set. Rude is the wrong word.
Oh man.... Harimoto is on another level.
Привет всем русскоязычным, с самого начала игры в теннис, начал играть пером, penhold RPB
Ну как, получается?
The majority of olympic medalists since 2000 have been penholders
The last 8 years shake hand has been the new dominating trend.
So currently the shake hand grip is "better" or has produced better results
The problem I have with playing penhold is that my fingers get so tired, so I am unable to play that grip for some time
@ I have tried that before, but it doesn’t feel natural for me. And its hard for me to do rpb that way.
But I can try it again and give it another try with more time :)
I had the same problem. It was resolved by using expander in order to train my forearm muscles
Maybe you're gripping the bat too tight with the fingers? I play penholder in long practice sessions and this is never an issue.
Pero ❤ oor el video, esta genial 🎉❤
Is it possible to achieve his old level after changing from shakehand to penholder?
I used this kind of grip...i can do back.flick.with this grip compare to shakehand
i disagree with the "elbow weakness" its only an advantage if you play traditional penhold and not rpb.
but yes if you want to just try it out. i have switched last season and its fun
Hast du echt von Shakehand auf Penholder gewechselt? 😂 Wie lange hat der Sprung bei dir gedauert und in welcher Liga spielst du? Würde auch gerne wechseln, um mal wieder Spaß zu haben etwas neues zu lernen.
@@malongfan7772 Jap und bin glücklich damit. Bezirksklasse/liga du? Da meine Aufschläge sehr gut sind und Vorhand Topspin sich auf dem Niveau nicht sooo viel unterscheidet zwischen beiden Griffarten ging es schnell. 3 Monate vielleicht um wieder mitspielen zu können. Aufschlagannahme geht extrem viel besser als mit Shakehand und allgemein die Freiheiten überm Tisch sind finde ich der größte Vorteil und auch Spaßfaktor. Rückhand überm Tisch ist noch etwas mein Problem. RPB generell gewöhnungsbedürftig. Man muss sich halt komplett selbst coachen, aber das geht mit UA-cam ganz gut.
@@niklaskras5498 Danke für deine Antwort, was für ein Holz spielst du? Haben ja nicht so viel Auswahl hier in Europa.
Ja genau das mit dem coachen muss man sowieso auch bei Shakehand selber machen, wenn man keine Trainer hat im Verein.
Denke mal ich versuch den Spaß mal :D
Hatte mal Verbandsliga/Landesliga eine Zeit Ersatz gespielt, jetzt denke nach der Verletzung auf Bezirksliganiveau.
Da ich nochmal mit TT nun mit 24 anfangen will, hab ich aus Spaß es mal probieren wollen. Denke man kann evtl. einen Vorteil haben, da die Gegner ja nie dagegen gespielt haben, aber der neue Ball macht die RPB Rückhand schwächer glaube ich.
Wang Hao hatte ja da die Vorteile damals mit Zelluloid, anscheinend ist das mit dem Plastikball nicht mehr so von Vorteil.
@@malongfan7772 Ja stimmt, das Problem hatte ich am Anfang auch. Habe dann eine Suche auf Ebay Kleinanzeigen aufgemacht und hat sich einer gemeldet. Habe ein Stiga Allround Classic, ein Yasaka Sweden Extra und ein Palio Cat, das für ein Noppenexperiment auf dem Weg zu mir ist.
btw: woher wusstest du, dass ich deutsch spreche? :D
Trainiere auch ab und zu mit Verbands/Landesliga Spielern und die haben öfters mal Probleme mit kreativen Bällen die man als Penholder leichter spielen kann. Also ja schon ein kleiner Vorteil.
Probier es ruhig aus, vielleicht hast du dadurch mehr Spaß am TT, so wie ich jetzt und notfalls wechselst du wieder zu Shakehand zurück.
Ich finde das Plastikball Argument ehrlich gesagt immer vernachlässigbar. Die Leute haben trotzdem genauso wie vorher Probleme mit extra spinnigen Aufschlägen, blocken Topspins reihenweise über die Platte etc.
@@niklaskras5498 schaust ja auch den Daniel Porten, da du da immer kommentierst wusste ich dass du deutsch sprichst.
Ja hab ein Avalaox P500 im Blick um genug Katapult für ein Hurricane 3 zu haben.
Kennst du ein gutes Video bzgl. Technik für VH Topspin bei Penholder. RH Topspin ist logisch, aber wie geht da der VH?😂
Willste wie Liu Guoliang Noppen auf der VH spielen?
I want ask, better play close to the table or far from table for penhold?
Definitely close to the table.
@@superpacmaniac thx sir
The wrist and direction advantages are great at the table, for spins and surprise placements, especially for quick minded players.
Most of us are not and do not play against elite players. We and our opponents are not trained athletes with strong muscles, ultra fast movements and great stamina. At low to intermediate levels and for older players, I personally think it's advantageous to play penhold and to learn from the elite women than from the elite men so you don't depend so much on power and running speed but on quick returns, spins and placements that control the game. Make your opponents run! I think choosing of styles depend much on your physical conditions and skill level as well as the people your play with.
@@syzygy6769 do you think I as an 10year+ shakehand player can change to penholder and achieve his old level? I want to change cause of shoulder injuries...
@@malongfan7772 I guess you have to find out by trying, if you think it will be better for your injuries. Perhaps you may adopt and enjoy different play strategies with the new hold to reach a high level with a different style. Practise and patience!
That was a fun match to watch. Kids are screaming a bit too much these days... XD
마지막에 진 아이가 코치옆에서 무릎꿇고 분해 하는거 인상적이네요. 둘다 좋은 선수가 될듯합니다
Learn all then stick to your favorites
sure, why not
Знакомый много раз менял хват, и стиль игры от этого менялся но не сильно.
tense match..
Is nice to see small Lebrun, but
He changed his style.
What do you mean? As I know he is still uses penhold grip...
@@superpacmaniac Watch the Europe Juniors Championships. Now he's playing normal style.
Wait u mean Alexis Lebrun right?
@@hurttoexist8952 I did. Felix plays penhold and his brother handshake.
@@hurttoexist8952 ua-cam.com/video/mGlgdvOSRuY/v-deo.html
After the Xu Xin vs Sun Yingsha match, we all know the ans :')
Came to watch a shouting match and a ping pong game broke out.
Lebrun changed now to play with shakehand.
You are mistaking Felix for his brother Alexis.
Imagine xu xin plays shakehand style😂
With his right hand...
Imagine Ma Long playing penhold 😳
and he only pushes 😟
So ugly...no sportsmanship. The players didn't salute each other in the end.
Xu xin! Wang hao!!
Ma lin
💕💕💕💕💕💕💕👏
I want ask, better play close to the table or far from table for penhold?
Hmmmmm with penhold u have more power So far from table but it depends of ur playing style
@@adq8443 I see, but if the ball come to backhand i can't counter it:(
@@austinkristian2945 Depends on who you are playing against sometimes. I feel comfortable back from the table using the RPB, but if you are playing someone who themselves waits close to the table and plays the angles this doesn't always work, then I step in a bit.