As we all expected, you play well. I still think my Kross 2 with software mods does just as well for a fraction of the price and does the job required!
Is this the very first Kronos released? The screen colours look different from the original Kronos 1, or is it something you can change from the menu? Great demo, still sounds great!
I purchased a M3 5 years ago and have never liked it's builtin sequencer. Does this work with a DAW easy? I want a workstation that has a sequencer that you can see in a DAW on my laptop :)
Mint only? You wouldn't settle for one in good to very good condition? There are always M1s on eBay. What about an M1R, or M1Rex (rack mount sound module) I know that aesthetics are also important to you, (me too) so maybe you prefer an actually keyboard instead of a sound module.
+Divady J _David Paulet_ I know at least 10 keyboard players who would say that the Motif sounds very cold and sterile while keyboard XYZ sounds warm and "analogish". Go figure. I play for 25 years all kind of workstations and all I can say is that a keyboard either sounds good to you or it doesn't. As soon as one starts to talk about how "cold" something sound, I put it immediately into the nonsense category.
+Divady J _David Paulet_ I get what you're saying. But that is nothing to kill a synth for. A little tone control/EQ and the problem is solved. The Motif does sound a little less digital but that surely will be cutting on both sides: some sounds will surely benefit from it while others won't. That's why EQ is for :-)
suppose its good if you get an endorsement or just sell everything you have...take out a loan...and go without food for a few months...then you can actually buy one...
Karma,endeed became classical same like comon arpeggiator.Come to a ponit ,those two must fulfeel one another for al walks of fun . Korgs guitars a shame ordinary comperally to Yamaha .For the rest Kronos is a great leap .Its capability almost boundless. Though Korg no need to forget their users alone.
Why not just buy a much cheaper keyboard (with pressure sensors, etc.), plug it into a computer and have software do everything and more? Serious question, because I do not want to spend thousands on a workstation when a few hundred plus a computer and a few programs will do the job. (I'm only interested in recording, not live performance.)
For home studio getting just two -good- MIDI keyboards and doing everything at computer is more or less today standard and trend for future. I see more and more people who do not play live moving away classic workstations. Its way cheaper, easier to use full sized keyboard and screen compared to small workstation display and software quality improved very significantly in last 2 years. For few hundred dollars you can get good synth, tonewheel organ, acceptable piano samples and few hundred of free plugins.
Ersatz Mode For playing live modern trend is to use arranger because it has more control surfaces then workstation and additional functions like mp3 playing with tempo/transpose change and they can display song text and notes which i found pretty useful and they have songbook feature. Then load into arranger home prepared samples with effects. If you need background tracks, do not bother with using arranger sequencer, you will be limited to features what arranger currently have (for example arrangers in $2000 range do not have insert effects) - make high quality mp3 home. You can plug 32 GB card into arranger to have lot of storage space for samples and mp3. You need arranger capable of loading lot of samples, Korg PA 900 is my current favorite since it can load 192 MB of samples and it has sampler, while Yamaha in same price category PSR-950 can load just 64 MB and i can not find info about sample memory for Roland FA 06, it looks like sampler can just playback mp3 from SSD, but cant change builtin sounds. In general keyboard makers do not want you to load own sounds and make that procedure difficult (for example KORG KROME workstation it looks like its even limited to 16 MB) with limited space unless you buy really highend model - like KRONOS (about 2GB RAM free for PCM data) or TYROS 5 (1 GB). People buy new keyboard because it sounds better (included samples are updated) - so ability to load lot of samples and keep keyboard forever is against their busyness interests. For live performance you can use laptop/midi keyboard combo too, just buy decent ($200 is enough) sound card. For example there are really good free tonewheel organ plugins with lot of options, more then on Kronos. It depends on your taste, if you like to work with computer its certainly possible to do all on computer. I highly recommend for starting KORG Taktile-49 MIDI keyboard - you have everything you need for live - knobs, sliders, switches, scratchpad, pads, wheel, sequencer control - all for $250. It lacks aftertouch - but its not problem you can use some control to send control signals to DAW. Taktile allows you to experiment with different type of controls to discover what control style for live performance you like most. Then buy second MIDI keyboard 76 keys with piano action, if you want something extra - look for wooden keys, they are really nice to play on and they are very durable - our church organ has 150 years old wooden keys, my oldest accordion is 80 years old - and both keys are in perfect condition even after generations of people playing on them. Plastic keys on most keyboards/accordions wears significantly after 7 years. MIDI wooden keyboards are produced by companies making church organs (feel free to place custom order), i got mine from some Italy company it was not cheap (about $2000) but its very nice feeling to play on them, and they continue to impress my guests. I wish you lot of enjoyment with making music, its awesome feeling to use music for making people happy!
Ersatz Mode Short answer is that if you're just recording there is no reason to buy a Kronos over using software. The Kronos is basically for live playing or people who don't like computers. All it is is a dedicated computer with a full range of good custom software pre-installed.
Beatles Eternally I'm very much a computer guy, both inside and outside music, and all my studio stuff is on soft synths but even I would only trust hardware for live work. I'm quite possibly being too paranoid as I know many people now use laptops for live work but, even something like the Kronos, which is essentially a specialised PC, seems like it has less chance of failing than a multi-purpose laptop
The Motif XF rhodes are killing the kronos. The kronos sounds bland IMO (organs are better on the Korg)...Although I think the Kronos is a musicians dream board
Pianos we both agree are better on the Kronos, I've said that...But my Chic Corea Mark 5 fender rhodes make these Kronos rhodes sound like ringtone Rhodes. Kronos is newer and slightly better. That understandable though cause the Kronos is newer. Wait until the Motif come out it will have better sounds than the Kronos. Those Pianos tho on the Korg are amazing Seesh
Why do synth demos like these always insist on playing lounge music? I mean a keyboard is for synth sounds. Trent Reznor needs to come on and show how it's really used. This demo sucks.
There's some really nice sounds on the Kronos, and a lot of versatility under the hood. Sadly it's buried under a convoluted user interface. The sequencer is hopeless, and doesn't hold a candle to things like the Fantom G. As if to add insult to injury, the much cheaper Krome comes with a fairly usable sequencer, and even the M3 received a sequencer upgrade post release. Nothing has materalized for the supposed flagship however. The worst thing about the Kronos is the build quality however. Self-tapping screws all over the place, cheap power supply, noisy (!) fan, and my unit even had a SATA cable that was broken due to Korg using a straight connector on the SSD side when there was only space for an angled one. I've had my Kronos for over two years now and since then several vertical lines have appeared on the display, courtesy of bad wave soldering. Korg's response was that a repair might cost me a few hundred Euros. My Virus TI had a bad capacitor and the Access service department responded on a sunday with the offer to repair the mainboard for about 80 Euros, but the guy even gave repair advice to me, essentially saving me that money. My Fantom has never developed any fault and works perfectly since day one. I've had a monomachine for years and it too never had any troubles. Roland D-50, works for decades now, only had to replace the memory battery twice. When you look some of the competitors, the Kronos looks like a botched, hacked together job. I wish it had a usable sequencer. Or that the display was still fine, at least then I could sell it. I can live with the long boot times (the Fantom takes just as long, then again I have a lot of stuff in my projects so YMMV) As it stands, the Kronos sounds really nice, but is just about the worst quality piece of gear I own. Plus Korg doesn't provide any major feature updates anymore, only focusing on sound packs they want to sell you for a pretty penny. The multisampling stuff on the Kronos is gimped specifically so they can sell you higher quality stuff than anything you could ever program into this machine. No thanks.
I'm sorry you might have got a glitchy Kronos, but I've had no problems what-so-ever w/mine. (Kronos X 88) Admittedly, the build quality is not rugged, but it is reliable & far from flimsy. It's satisfactory. As for the sequencer, I guess the sequencers on the the Trinity, Triton, & M3, are also "unusable"? They must be, considering they're practically identical to the Kronos. Personally I've never had even the slightest bit of trouble with the sequencer on my Triton or Kronos. I was able to start recording w/it instantly. It's extremely powerful, yet ridiculously simple to use. Honestly, I don't understand what complaints you have with it. I can do anything I want w/mine, effortlessly. The FX routing/bus is also basically the same on all the keyboards I mentioned. The Kronos is "complex", but not "complicated", & the interface is very user friendly. (except for the MOD-7 engine, but programming FM synthesis is difficult on any synth) I have no idea what you mean about the multisampling stuff being "gimped". There are 8 layer multisamples, & now 12 for the pianos. There are also 1,000's of free, excellent patches available online. (Kronoshaven, Korgpatches, Korgforums, etc (.com) There is nothing "botched" about the Kronos. It's a perfect integration of sound engines, FX processing, sequencing, & DAW. Korg finally got EVERYTHING right w/he Kronos. It's currently the best hardware "workstation" available. Nothing else is even close to being in it's league. (& this is coming from someone who owns a Kronos, Kurzweil PC3K, Yamaha Motif, & Alesis Fusion) Korg HAS released several updates in the past, (don't know what you're talking about there) & just recently (3 weeks ago) released the awesome Kronos OS 3.02, *too many features to list) which basically turns your Kronos/X into a Kronos 2. The new update also seems to have noticeably reduced the boot time. Not to be rude, but the validity of most of your (absurd) complaints, (especially the sequencer) makes me question whether you actually even own a Kronos. The way you describe the Kronos,.....it's so different then the Kronos I use that you might as well be describing a totally different keyboard. Honestly, I don't know how any musician could NOT like the Kronos. It's so powerful & does so much, so easily, & sounds so awesome,....seriously, what's NOT not like about that?
I have not updated my Kronos to the new 3.02 version. But your response puzzles me, to the point where I wonder if you ever used either DAW software or any other workstation like Motif or the Fantom. For example: The program patches use patch effects and master effects to make them sound "rich". Most of the program patches rely on their individual master effects and routing to a great degree. Now when you pull them into a multi setup, or try to use them in the sequencer, you get the raw instrument + instrument effects, but not the master effects. While it can be ok to apply your own master fx, you may end up needing different effects entirely for different patches. So what you end up doing is put them into the respective part. And then you notice that the result just doesn't sound the same, and sometimes you can't achieve the same result as in the program patch. This alone is such a huge hampering. Maybe they fixed this in v3 but I won't hold my breath because it'd be a rather large architecture change. Now as for the sequencer: It is abysmal. You saying that it's perfect makes me wonder what you have been using to date, or if you even produce music yourself. You used that line on me so be ready to hear it yourself as that sequencer is simply not up to snuff. You can't visually move parts. Digging into the individual midi events is extremely painful. You can't easily apply operations on areas of the timeline. You have to make selections using numerical input boxes (instead of indicating it on the screen). Worst, you have to indicate paste targets via numerical input. Do you know how the Fantom does this? You can either use a mouse and do drag and drop, or you can use the buttons: The Fantom uses "Phrases", which I think is a vastly superior and convenient concept, and you can select phrases just with the arrow keys. Moving them on the timeline works by holding the shift key and dialing the jogwheel. How do you move parts on the kronos? You type in numbers. I've used Motifs, Fantoms, lots and lots of Elektron gear, various Korg stuff like the Radias and Elektribe as well as the M3. The M3 received a sequencer upgrade that's much more usable even though it's still not quite there yet. The Korg Krome has a much better sequencer. The only part of your comment that I think you may well be right about is the Kronos-X being solidly build - that may be the case, I can't say for sure. But that model was released a year after the original Kronos. And my Kronos has the issues I described above: My display is now very difficult to read and I had to replace the SATA cable because it was the wrong cable for the available physical space, and was broken off on delivery. Here's some random noodling I did on the machine when I got it: www.sofurry.com/view/614872 My elektronauts profile: www.elektronauts.com/users/profile/2572
***** First I want to address the 2nd paragraph of your comment, where you address the program patch FX, "you get the raw instrument + instrument effects", etc. I'm really not following you, as I've never had that problem. First off, in the pull down menu you can easily COPY the insert, master, or total FX, from ANY program, combination, or song, to any other program, combination or song. But there is also an even easier way. Let's say you're in Program or Combination mode & you want to use a Program or Combination + ALL it's FX, in the sequencer. If you simply press ENTER + REC/WRITE, (then YES to confirm) the Kronos will automatically import that Program or Combination along with ALL it's insert, master, & total FX, directly to the sequencer. All the Program/Combination FX will be then be identical (in the sequencer) to their initial Program/Combination configuration. That feature has always been available on the Kronos. Honestly, it could not be any easier, (press 2 buttons) though I am guessing that maybe you didn't know about the ENTER + REC/WRITE feature. If you give it a try, I think it will produce the desired effect you were hoping for, quickly & easily. Kronos OS 3.02 actually does have "drag & drop" feature now, (along with many other new features) but you could always use a mouse in conjunction with the Kronos editing software. You should really update. The new OS is awesome, & though I haven't yet officially timed it, I swear the Kronos now boots up faster than before. I currently have a Kronos X 88 & Triton Pro X, Kurzweil PC3K6, Alesis Fusion HD6, Yamaha Motif 6 & EX5, Roland W30, & have previously owned Korg M1, M1Rex, & O1/Wfd. So I do know a bit about workstation sequencing. The sequencer & FX routing are far easier on the Kronos/Triton (identical) than they are on the Motif. I can't say anything about the Fantom, as I've never really used one. (once, for like 2 minutes, 14 years ago) I do have an XV5080 though. (no sequencer, same sound engine) I just don't understand how anyone could have a problem with the Trinity, Triton, M3, OASYS, Kronos, sequencers. They're so simple & straightforward to use. I've let my cousins use my Triton on occasion, (virtually the same sequencer as the Kronos) & even w/no prior experience w/workstations, they were able to start using it after literally 30 seconds of explaining. I've never had any trouble editing events on the O1/W, Triton, Kronos, or Roland W30. Admittedly It may be a bit tedious, but not really complicated. (though after years of use, I'm used to editing events in that way) But eventing editing, note by note/event by event, it's a tedious process. Honestly, I can't really imagine a more efficient &/or better way of editing events (than the Kronos'/Triton's) due to the complex nature of event editing in general. You've got 100's of events in a song, & you want to edit 1/some of them. How else could you do it? You've got to see the events in order to edit them, right? Well, you can see them on the Kronos, & then you can edit them. It's not hard to do w/the Kronos, & even easier then the Triton. I am unfamiliar with Roland "Phrases". I know that on the Triton & Kronos, you can record a patter & then assign patterns to keys, (press the key, play back a pattern, record that date to the sequencer, etc) & on the Motif I believe you can assign samples to keys/track, though I've never tried it on mine. Roland's "Phases" kind of seems to be based in a similar concept to Korgs patter to keys concept. I have read about the Fantom G's sequencer, DAW, & "Phrases" (I've looked at the owner's manual) It does seem freakin' awesome!!! (128 MIDI tracks + 24 track DAW! Holy @#$%) However, my biggest complaint with Roland is that they no longer actually produce any new sounds. The sounds on the Fantom G, AIRA, Integra 7, etc, they're exactly the SAME sounds that are on my 15 year old XV5080 + SRX/SR-JV expansion boards. I already have all the Fantom's sounds, or at least all the ones I actually want. I used to love Roland, (still do actually) but I won't purchase anything "new" from them, until they actually make a "new" product. (not one that just keeps recycling the SAME old sounds) If they at least made some new SRX expansion boards, that would be acceptable, but they don't even do that anymore. I think the last one was made like 10 years ago. Anyway, if I came off as a bit rude, I do apologize. I don't have a problem with people giving their opinions, but I can't stand people who trash talk something (a synth, a movie, whatever) w/o ever having actually used/seen it. Initially I thought you may not have even used the Kronos, but now I see I was in error. So, sorry for that. Anyway, be sure to try that ENTER + REC/WRITE feature. I think you're love it. ;-)
Gerry No Kudos for your response! Hm well I know you can pull the fx from the program into the sequencer - but what if you have multiple programs with different effects? I found that at least in the 2.x software, doing this multiple times for different program patches always overwrites the master parts. This is fine in most cases where there's just some generic reverb and such - but it gets really jarring when you have a more complex program that uses a lot of specific master effects and want to use it together with, say, the stock e-piano patches + THEIR master effects. The fantom doesn't have that problem. Program patches are not allowed to use master effects and so using them in the sequencer always gets you the entire thing. Or am I missing something? I used the M3 sequencer before and it was initially extremely painful. Korg released a firmware update which completely transformed it, adding a proper piano roll with visual editing features. I checked the Kronos changelog but saw nothing about a sequencer update, but I'll try it out as soon as I get to Vienna again. I agree about the Fantom G sounds, but on the other hand they are quite good as they are. There are a few amazing ones that still shine to this date, but I agree that the Kronos beats Roland soundly ;) Plus the Kronos sounds are actually fully programmable, whereas the Fantom is rather limited. It's not as bad as a preset box, but definitely heavily centered around playing with the factory patches due to the limited ability to really, well, synthesize. (There IS a VA-synth in the Fantom too, but it's really basic and not worth it IMHO) The motif effects routing is indeed quite complex. I found the sequencer easier to use than the Kronos though. I gotta say though, the Kronos is still such a huge missed opportunity for me. The build quality of mine is quite bad, I had to install a new fan to get even the basic noise level down, I had to install a different SATA cable, I saw that Korg had forgotten several screws when they assembled it (!), the power supply is very cheaply made and doesn't conform to CE standards (lack of minimum clearance between primary and secondary side), the list goes on. And, well, my screen is broken. And a repair would cost quite a lot of $, more than I'm willing to invest. Maybe the new models are better made, but that doesn't really help me :/ If you're interested in onboard sequencers you should check out how the Fantom G does things. Roland did an amazing job creating a user interface that is extremely efficient even just using buttons and the jogwheel. I'd love to see Roland, Yamaha, or any company really to step up and do something that's even better. And perhaps with a more modern sound selection and broader capabilities (VA, sampling, etc) too. Thanks for staying cool and I'll give the new software a whirl as soon as I can!
***** "but what if you have multiple programs with different effects?" Ahhh, I see what you mean now. Unfortunately the Kronos doesn't do that. Very few workstations do. I guess it has to do with FX processing power. The Kronos has only 1 "Master Effects" section. (& 12 inserts) But for example, what if 2 different programs are using different Master Effects configurations? My Kurzweil PC3K does what you're talking about. When you select a program while in the sequencer, it imports all it's effects, although you're still limited to a total of 16 simultaneous effects. IMO, Kurzweil really has the highest quality & best sounding effects of any keyboard in existence). You can even assign insert effects to individual samples/multisamples within a program. Kurzweil uses "effect chains", & the interface is very different than other keyboards. (even more complicated than Yamaha) It takes getting used to. (I still haven't yet master it) I believe the Integra 7 also does what you're talking about. When in multi-timberal mode, each program has it's own effects, same as in program mode. But there must be some limitations. The Fantom, Integra, & PC3K must be constrained by a total number of FX, yes? What if you're in sequencer mode & choose 10 or 20 programs that each use 5-10 FX, EACH? Fantom, PC3K,....they don't have the processing power to have 50-100+ simultaneous effects. As I said, I am not familiar with the Fantom, or the Integra, but what I am thinking is that the Fantom & Integra simply have less insert effects per program, than the Kronos has. As I said, the Kronos has 2 master, 12, insert, 2 Total = 16 effect. Does the Fantom has 12 insert effects per program? If you had a song made up of 16 programs, & each program was using 16 effects, that = 256 simultaneous effects! I highly doubt that even an Intel i7 3.2ghz CPU could handle that. I really do love my Kronos though. I am really big into Analog Modeling/Virtual Analog, & I love it's multiple modeling/VA engines. (I have the Kronos, EXB-MOSS on my Triton, Z1, Microkorg, Alesis Fusion, Roland SH-01 Gaia, Yamaha EX5, & a PLG150-AN modeling board on my Motif (same engine as AN1x) I also love a great acoustic piano sound, & the Kronos has that. I also have a real Yamaha C6 conservatory model grand piano, but it's in storage. :-( The Kronos has the best pianos of all workstations IMO. The good thing about the Kronos is that it's a software based system, (Linux based OS) so it's capable up upgrades. Korg could easily add more/new modeling engines, effects, etc. I wish they'd give people access to the proprietary information in OS, so people could then "hack" the Kronos' software! hehehe. We can only imagine the possibilities! Anyway, I regret having got off on the wrong foot, but fortunately that seems behind us now. I just love synthesizers & workstations, both vintage & modern, & always enjoy corresponding with like minded people who have similar interests. I also feel sad about you getting a bad Kronos. So many problems....Korg should really have replaced it! The broken screen is a real bummer. :-( But I do believe it's still usable with the Kronos editing software. When it's running, you basically see a Kronos screen on your PC. The Kronos is a big/expensive investment. (& a great sounding synth) I'd hate to think you're not getting any use out of the money you spent. Give the software a try. Well, take care & good luck.
gjc82071 Best KRONOS selling point is not its awesome sound quality, you can find some better sounding instruments, especially analog synths, latest rolland workstation FA 08 is surprisingly good - nice samples and very easy to use. For example Hammond XK3C (onboard tube) beats kronos badly, prophet synths beats him very badly too. Even kingkorg with its onboard tube is surprisingly good i cant hear any difference against prophet unless i really try hard. Kronos sounds too digital like Virus TI. What i see as biggest point for KRONOS is that it can do EVERYTHING at good level. Unless you are sound purist you can replace many keyboards with KRONOS like i did, so yes its game changing instrument. I am still keeping PA 900 for gigs. Another game changing instrument is Roland Integra 7, i am very impressed by its synth engine SuperNATURAL synth. Anybody knows if this engine is for sale as separate module?
Gerry No I have not use Roland for very long time. I have only stage piano and V accordion from Roland, so i do hot have experience with its boards. For newcomer I was pretty much impressed by FA - easy to use (like all Roland) and good sounds. I cant think about one thing which Kronos does very well, in every area including piano - specialized instrument beats it. Compare MS-20mini vs MS-20EX engine, hammond organs with 2 tubes vs Korg CX-3, Virus TI vs AL-1, PA3x vs Karma + sequencer backing tracks. AL-1 is really joke, all VA synths beats it. I agree with J Rudess - KRONOS can cover 95% of all your musical needs. Its not excellent instrument - its "i want to own only one board" instrument - for example instead of owning good stage piano, good organ, acceptable workstation and VA synth - you can just get Kronos and save space and money.
I am IN LOVE with this KB!! Wish I could afford it. Light years beyond the dated Korg ix300 that I have. Oh boy, this gets me excited!
well done! enjoyed the Steely Dan at 2:09
Respect for bringing Babylon Sisters.
Nice! Thanks for the Babylon Sisters by the way.
As we all expected, you play well. I still think my Kross 2 with software mods does just as well for a fraction of the price and does the job required!
Little JT in for good mix. Nice.
8:55 Love that!
excellent job on Babsis ! nice demo
Great demo and hope you will do more.
Drive West on sunset to the sea . . . turn that jungle music down . . . Wow. Do you have the sheet music for that or how did you figure it out?
Thanks for this great demo.
Is this the very first Kronos released? The screen colours look different from the original Kronos 1, or is it something you can change from the menu? Great demo, still sounds great!
.ml Oki lol
I purchased a M3 5 years ago and have never liked it's builtin sequencer. Does this work with a DAW easy? I want a workstation that has a sequencer that you can see in a DAW on my laptop :)
Thanks very much!
Thank You.
Great quality video.
thanks, but it's such a pity the camera didn't focus also on the screen to be able to see it clearly...
pierdu pierdu ładne organki już ide se kupić
gak gak gak gak gak gak gak gak
*I hope someone gets this reference*
disculpa que no hable ingles pero, Que precio tiene ese piano en dolares EEUU? o en peso COLOMBIANO?, donde lo puedo conseguir para colombia?
Can it make those Yamaha CS80 sounds a la Vangelis?
Hello made a custom kit in global mode I can't seem to save and send it to combination can I get some advice pls
I've got a chance to buy this for £900 . . Is it worth it? I want it. So many questions need to ask you
too did you buy it? I have the same option now and I rly want it but are there any downsides?
what is the exact model name of the kronos you are using
What is the name of the song he played at the beginning of the video with rhodes?
hey dude has these sounds library to into korg kronos 2 73?
Was that some Queen at 5:00 ? I want to break free
Yea. Nice uh
I'd really like M1 or T3 instead of this. The problem is, it's close to impossible to find one MINT.
i just found one on ebay dam near brand new with a road case for 1500.00
The Tyros 5 76 key is the way to go. More power and feature ipad, NoteStar and lots more.
alphasxsignal The Tyros is not more powerful. The Tyros is an auto arranger, the Kronos is a workstation. They're very different instruments.
Mint only? You wouldn't settle for one in good to very good condition? There are always M1s on eBay. What about an M1R, or M1Rex (rack mount sound module)
I know that aesthetics are also important to you, (me too) so maybe you prefer an actually keyboard instead of a sound module.
Gerry No
Brand New only, unless it's a Roland :)
Which Roland?
very cold no? i prefere the motif XF
+Divady J _David Paulet_ I know at least 10 keyboard players who would say that the Motif sounds very cold and sterile while keyboard XYZ sounds warm and "analogish". Go figure. I play for 25 years all kind of workstations and all I can say is that a keyboard either sounds good to you or it doesn't. As soon as one starts to talk about how "cold" something sound, I put it immediately into the nonsense category.
+Divady J _David Paulet_ I get what you're saying. But that is nothing to kill a synth for. A little tone control/EQ and the problem is solved. The Motif does sound a little less digital but that surely will be cutting on both sides: some sounds will surely benefit from it while others won't. That's why EQ is for :-)
I want to break free
suppose its good if you get an endorsement or just sell everything you have...take out a loan...and go without food for a few months...then you can actually buy one...
why almost all sounds from that expensive workstation sounds as if it coming out from a deep box ... ? it is so unnatural..
Karma,endeed became classical same like comon arpeggiator.Come to a ponit ,those two must fulfeel one another for al walks of fun . Korgs guitars a shame ordinary comperally to Yamaha .For the rest Kronos is a great leap .Its capability almost boundless. Though Korg no need to forget their users alone.
what???????
Why not just buy a much cheaper keyboard (with pressure sensors, etc.), plug it into a computer and have software do everything and more? Serious question, because I do not want to spend thousands on a workstation when a few hundred plus a computer and a few programs will do the job. (I'm only interested in recording, not live performance.)
For home studio getting just two -good- MIDI keyboards and doing everything at computer is more or less today standard and trend for future. I see more and more people who do not play live moving away classic workstations. Its way cheaper, easier to use full sized keyboard and screen compared to small workstation display and software quality improved very significantly in last 2 years. For few hundred dollars you can get good synth, tonewheel organ, acceptable piano samples and few hundred of free plugins.
Thanks for that.
Ersatz Mode
For playing live modern trend is to use arranger because it has more control surfaces then workstation and additional functions like mp3 playing with tempo/transpose change and they can display song text and notes which i found pretty useful and they have songbook feature. Then load into arranger home prepared samples with effects. If you need background tracks, do not bother with using arranger sequencer, you will be limited to features what arranger currently have (for example arrangers in $2000 range do not have insert effects) - make high quality mp3 home. You can plug 32 GB card into arranger to have lot of storage space for samples and mp3. You need arranger capable of loading lot of samples, Korg PA 900 is my current favorite since it can load 192 MB of samples and it has sampler, while Yamaha in same price category PSR-950 can load just 64 MB and i can not find info about sample memory for Roland FA 06, it looks like sampler can just playback mp3 from SSD, but cant change builtin sounds. In general keyboard makers do not want you to load own sounds and make that procedure difficult (for example KORG KROME workstation it looks like its even limited to 16 MB) with limited space unless you buy really highend model - like KRONOS (about 2GB RAM free for PCM data) or TYROS 5 (1 GB). People buy new keyboard because it sounds better (included samples are updated) - so ability to load lot of samples and keep keyboard forever is against their busyness interests. For live performance you can use laptop/midi keyboard combo too, just buy decent ($200 is enough) sound card. For example there are really good free tonewheel organ plugins with lot of options, more then on Kronos. It depends on your taste, if you like to work with computer its certainly possible to do all on computer. I highly recommend for starting KORG Taktile-49 MIDI keyboard - you have everything you need for live - knobs, sliders, switches, scratchpad, pads, wheel, sequencer control - all for $250. It lacks aftertouch - but its not problem you can use some control to send control signals to DAW. Taktile allows you to experiment with different type of controls to discover what control style for live performance you like most. Then buy second MIDI keyboard 76 keys with piano action, if you want something extra - look for wooden keys, they are really nice to play on and they are very durable - our church organ has 150 years old wooden keys, my oldest accordion is 80 years old - and both keys are in perfect condition even after generations of people playing on them. Plastic keys on most keyboards/accordions wears significantly after 7 years. MIDI wooden keyboards are produced by companies making church organs (feel free to place custom order), i got mine from some Italy company it was not cheap (about $2000) but its very nice feeling to play on them, and they continue to impress my guests. I wish you lot of enjoyment with making music, its awesome feeling to use music for making people happy!
Ersatz Mode Short answer is that if you're just recording there is no reason to buy a Kronos over using software. The Kronos is basically for live playing or people who don't like computers. All it is is a dedicated computer with a full range of good custom software pre-installed.
Beatles Eternally I'm very much a computer guy, both inside and outside music, and all my studio stuff is on soft synths but even I would only trust hardware for live work. I'm quite possibly being too paranoid as I know many people now use laptops for live work but, even something like the Kronos, which is essentially a specialised PC, seems like it has less chance of failing than a multi-purpose laptop
The Motif XF rhodes are killing the kronos. The kronos sounds bland IMO (organs are better on the Korg)...Although I think the Kronos is a musicians dream board
Pianos we both agree are better on the Kronos, I've said that...But my Chic Corea Mark 5 fender rhodes make these Kronos rhodes sound like ringtone Rhodes. Kronos is newer and slightly better. That understandable though cause the Kronos is newer. Wait until the Motif come out it will have better sounds than the Kronos. Those Pianos tho on the Korg are amazing Seesh
Yeh and the Nord killing both -the Yamaha and the Korg
That Nord is mean,But damit Im a Motif Man!
Beatles Eternally IN terms of sound-never. I just sold my Kronos, and don't want to look back, never-ever.
+Beatles Eternally well said and spot on! God bless you!
Why do synth demos like these always insist on playing lounge music? I mean a keyboard is for synth sounds. Trent Reznor needs to come on and show how it's really used. This demo sucks.
Bryce Herron I want to make music like The Pet Shop Boys will this do it or do I need to add software with it?
There's some really nice sounds on the Kronos, and a lot of versatility under the hood. Sadly it's buried under a convoluted user interface. The sequencer is hopeless, and doesn't hold a candle to things like the Fantom G. As if to add insult to injury, the much cheaper Krome comes with a fairly usable sequencer, and even the M3 received a sequencer upgrade post release. Nothing has materalized for the supposed flagship however.
The worst thing about the Kronos is the build quality however. Self-tapping screws all over the place, cheap power supply, noisy (!) fan, and my unit even had a SATA cable that was broken due to Korg using a straight connector on the SSD side when there was only space for an angled one.
I've had my Kronos for over two years now and since then several vertical lines have appeared on the display, courtesy of bad wave soldering. Korg's response was that a repair might cost me a few hundred Euros.
My Virus TI had a bad capacitor and the Access service department responded on a sunday with the offer to repair the mainboard for about 80 Euros, but the guy even gave repair advice to me, essentially saving me that money.
My Fantom has never developed any fault and works perfectly since day one. I've had a monomachine for years and it too never had any troubles. Roland D-50, works for decades now, only had to replace the memory battery twice.
When you look some of the competitors, the Kronos looks like a botched, hacked together job. I wish it had a usable sequencer. Or that the display was still fine, at least then I could sell it. I can live with the long boot times (the Fantom takes just as long, then again I have a lot of stuff in my projects so YMMV)
As it stands, the Kronos sounds really nice, but is just about the worst quality piece of gear I own. Plus Korg doesn't provide any major feature updates anymore, only focusing on sound packs they want to sell you for a pretty penny. The multisampling stuff on the Kronos is gimped specifically so they can sell you higher quality stuff than anything you could ever program into this machine. No thanks.
I'm sorry you might have got a glitchy Kronos, but I've had no problems what-so-ever w/mine. (Kronos X 88) Admittedly, the build quality is not rugged, but it is reliable & far from flimsy. It's satisfactory. As for the sequencer, I guess the sequencers on the the Trinity, Triton, & M3, are also "unusable"? They must be, considering they're practically identical to the Kronos. Personally I've never had even the slightest bit of trouble with the sequencer on my Triton or Kronos. I was able to start recording w/it instantly. It's extremely powerful, yet ridiculously simple to use. Honestly, I don't understand what complaints you have with it. I can do anything I want w/mine, effortlessly. The FX routing/bus is also basically the same on all the keyboards I mentioned. The Kronos is "complex", but not "complicated", & the interface is very user friendly. (except for the MOD-7 engine, but programming FM synthesis is difficult on any synth) I have no idea what you mean about the multisampling stuff being "gimped". There are 8 layer multisamples, & now 12 for the pianos. There are also 1,000's of free, excellent patches available online. (Kronoshaven, Korgpatches, Korgforums, etc (.com)
There is nothing "botched" about the Kronos. It's a perfect integration of sound engines, FX processing, sequencing, & DAW. Korg finally got EVERYTHING right w/he Kronos. It's currently the best hardware "workstation" available. Nothing else is even close to being in it's league. (& this is coming from someone who owns a Kronos, Kurzweil PC3K, Yamaha Motif, & Alesis Fusion)
Korg HAS released several updates in the past, (don't know what you're talking about there) & just recently (3 weeks ago) released the awesome Kronos OS 3.02, *too many features to list) which basically turns your Kronos/X into a Kronos 2. The new update also seems to have noticeably reduced the boot time. Not to be rude, but the validity of most of your (absurd) complaints, (especially the sequencer) makes me question whether you actually even own a Kronos. The way you describe the Kronos,.....it's so different then the Kronos I use that you might as well be describing a totally different keyboard. Honestly, I don't know how any musician could NOT like the Kronos. It's so powerful & does so much, so easily, & sounds so awesome,....seriously, what's NOT not like about that?
I have not updated my Kronos to the new 3.02 version. But your response puzzles me, to the point where I wonder if you ever used either DAW software or any other workstation like Motif or the Fantom.
For example: The program patches use patch effects and master effects to make them sound "rich". Most of the program patches rely on their individual master effects and routing to a great degree. Now when you pull them into a multi setup, or try to use them in the sequencer, you get the raw instrument + instrument effects, but not the master effects. While it can be ok to apply your own master fx, you may end up needing different effects entirely for different patches.
So what you end up doing is put them into the respective part. And then you notice that the result just doesn't sound the same, and sometimes you can't achieve the same result as in the program patch.
This alone is such a huge hampering. Maybe they fixed this in v3 but I won't hold my breath because it'd be a rather large architecture change.
Now as for the sequencer: It is abysmal. You saying that it's perfect makes me wonder what you have been using to date, or if you even produce music yourself. You used that line on me so be ready to hear it yourself as that sequencer is simply not up to snuff. You can't visually move parts. Digging into the individual midi events is extremely painful. You can't easily apply operations on areas of the timeline. You have to make selections using numerical input boxes (instead of indicating it on the screen). Worst, you have to indicate paste targets via numerical input.
Do you know how the Fantom does this? You can either use a mouse and do drag and drop, or you can use the buttons: The Fantom uses "Phrases", which I think is a vastly superior and convenient concept, and you can select phrases just with the arrow keys. Moving them on the timeline works by holding the shift key and dialing the jogwheel. How do you move parts on the kronos? You type in numbers.
I've used Motifs, Fantoms, lots and lots of Elektron gear, various Korg stuff like the Radias and Elektribe as well as the M3. The M3 received a sequencer upgrade that's much more usable even though it's still not quite there yet. The Korg Krome has a much better sequencer.
The only part of your comment that I think you may well be right about is the Kronos-X being solidly build - that may be the case, I can't say for sure. But that model was released a year after the original Kronos. And my Kronos has the issues I described above: My display is now very difficult to read and I had to replace the SATA cable because it was the wrong cable for the available physical space, and was broken off on delivery.
Here's some random noodling I did on the machine when I got it: www.sofurry.com/view/614872
My elektronauts profile: www.elektronauts.com/users/profile/2572
***** First I want to address the 2nd paragraph of your comment, where you address the program patch FX, "you get the raw instrument + instrument effects", etc.
I'm really not following you, as I've never had that problem. First off, in the pull down menu you can easily COPY the insert, master, or total FX, from ANY program, combination, or song, to any other program, combination or song.
But there is also an even easier way. Let's say you're in Program or Combination mode & you want to use a Program or Combination + ALL it's FX, in the sequencer.
If you simply press ENTER + REC/WRITE, (then YES to confirm) the Kronos will automatically import that Program or Combination along with ALL it's insert, master, & total FX, directly to the sequencer. All the Program/Combination FX will be then be identical (in the sequencer) to their initial Program/Combination configuration. That feature has always been available on the Kronos. Honestly, it could not be any easier, (press 2 buttons) though I am guessing that maybe you didn't know about the ENTER + REC/WRITE feature. If you give it a try, I think it will produce the desired effect you were hoping for, quickly & easily.
Kronos OS 3.02 actually does have "drag & drop" feature now, (along with many other new features) but you could always use a mouse in conjunction with the Kronos editing software. You should really update. The new OS is awesome, & though I haven't yet officially timed it, I swear the Kronos now boots up faster than before.
I currently have a Kronos X 88 & Triton Pro X, Kurzweil PC3K6, Alesis Fusion HD6, Yamaha Motif 6 & EX5, Roland W30, & have previously owned Korg M1, M1Rex, & O1/Wfd. So I do know a bit about workstation sequencing.
The sequencer & FX routing are far easier on the Kronos/Triton (identical) than they are on the Motif. I can't say anything about the Fantom, as I've never really used one. (once, for like 2 minutes, 14 years ago) I do have an XV5080 though. (no sequencer, same sound engine)
I just don't understand how anyone could have a problem with the Trinity, Triton, M3, OASYS, Kronos, sequencers. They're so simple & straightforward to use. I've let my cousins use my Triton on occasion, (virtually the same sequencer as the Kronos) & even w/no prior experience w/workstations, they were able to start using it after literally 30 seconds of explaining.
I've never had any trouble editing events on the O1/W, Triton, Kronos, or Roland W30. Admittedly It may be a bit tedious, but not really complicated. (though after years of use, I'm used to editing events in that way)
But eventing editing, note by note/event by event, it's a tedious process.
Honestly, I can't really imagine a more efficient &/or better way of editing events (than the Kronos'/Triton's) due to the complex nature of event editing in general. You've got 100's of events in a song, & you want to edit 1/some of them. How else could you do it? You've got to see the events in order to edit them, right? Well, you can see them on the Kronos, & then you can edit them. It's not hard to do w/the Kronos, & even easier then the Triton.
I am unfamiliar with Roland "Phrases". I know that on the Triton & Kronos, you can record a patter & then assign patterns to keys, (press the key, play back a pattern, record that date to the sequencer, etc) & on the Motif I believe you can assign samples to keys/track, though I've never tried it on mine.
Roland's "Phases" kind of seems to be based in a similar concept to Korgs patter to keys concept. I have read about the Fantom G's sequencer, DAW, & "Phrases" (I've looked at the owner's manual) It does seem freakin' awesome!!! (128 MIDI tracks + 24 track DAW! Holy @#$%) However, my biggest complaint with Roland is that they no longer actually produce any new sounds. The sounds on the Fantom G, AIRA, Integra 7, etc, they're exactly the SAME sounds that are on my 15 year old XV5080 + SRX/SR-JV expansion boards. I already have all the Fantom's sounds, or at least all the ones I actually want. I used to love Roland, (still do actually) but I won't purchase anything "new" from them, until they actually make a "new" product. (not one that just keeps recycling the SAME old sounds)
If they at least made some new SRX expansion boards, that would be acceptable, but they don't even do that anymore. I think the last one was made like 10 years ago.
Anyway, if I came off as a bit rude, I do apologize. I don't have a problem with people giving their opinions, but I can't stand people who trash talk something (a synth, a movie, whatever) w/o ever having actually used/seen it. Initially I thought you may not have even used the Kronos, but now I see I was in error. So, sorry for that. Anyway, be sure to try that ENTER + REC/WRITE feature. I think you're love it. ;-)
Gerry No Kudos for your response!
Hm well I know you can pull the fx from the program into the sequencer - but what if you have multiple programs with different effects? I found that at least in the 2.x software, doing this multiple times for different program patches always overwrites the master parts. This is fine in most cases where there's just some generic reverb and such - but it gets really jarring when you have a more complex program that uses a lot of specific master effects and want to use it together with, say, the stock e-piano patches + THEIR master effects. The fantom doesn't have that problem. Program patches are not allowed to use master effects and so using them in the sequencer always gets you the entire thing.
Or am I missing something?
I used the M3 sequencer before and it was initially extremely painful. Korg released a firmware update which completely transformed it, adding a proper piano roll with visual editing features. I checked the Kronos changelog but saw nothing about a sequencer update, but I'll try it out as soon as I get to Vienna again.
I agree about the Fantom G sounds, but on the other hand they are quite good as they are. There are a few amazing ones that still shine to this date, but I agree that the Kronos beats Roland soundly ;) Plus the Kronos sounds are actually fully programmable, whereas the Fantom is rather limited. It's not as bad as a preset box, but definitely heavily centered around playing with the factory patches due to the limited ability to really, well, synthesize. (There IS a VA-synth in the Fantom too, but it's really basic and not worth it IMHO)
The motif effects routing is indeed quite complex. I found the sequencer easier to use than the Kronos though.
I gotta say though, the Kronos is still such a huge missed opportunity for me. The build quality of mine is quite bad, I had to install a new fan to get even the basic noise level down, I had to install a different SATA cable, I saw that Korg had forgotten several screws when they assembled it (!), the power supply is very cheaply made and doesn't conform to CE standards (lack of minimum clearance between primary and secondary side), the list goes on.
And, well, my screen is broken. And a repair would cost quite a lot of $, more than I'm willing to invest. Maybe the new models are better made, but that doesn't really help me :/
If you're interested in onboard sequencers you should check out how the Fantom G does things. Roland did an amazing job creating a user interface that is extremely efficient even just using buttons and the jogwheel. I'd love to see Roland, Yamaha, or any company really to step up and do something that's even better. And perhaps with a more modern sound selection and broader capabilities (VA, sampling, etc) too.
Thanks for staying cool and I'll give the new software a whirl as soon as I can!
***** "but what if you have multiple programs with different effects?"
Ahhh, I see what you mean now. Unfortunately the Kronos doesn't do that. Very few workstations do. I guess it has to do with FX processing power. The Kronos has only 1 "Master Effects" section. (& 12 inserts) But for example, what if 2 different programs are using different Master Effects configurations? My Kurzweil PC3K does what you're talking about. When you select a program while in the sequencer, it imports all it's effects, although you're still limited to a total of 16 simultaneous effects. IMO, Kurzweil really has the highest quality & best sounding effects of any keyboard in existence). You can even assign insert effects to individual samples/multisamples within a program. Kurzweil uses "effect chains", & the interface is very different than other keyboards. (even more complicated than Yamaha) It takes getting used to. (I still haven't yet master it)
I believe the Integra 7 also does what you're talking about. When in multi-timberal mode, each program has it's own effects, same as in program mode.
But there must be some limitations. The Fantom, Integra, & PC3K must be constrained by a total number of FX, yes? What if you're in sequencer mode & choose 10 or 20 programs that each use 5-10 FX, EACH? Fantom, PC3K,....they don't have the processing power to have 50-100+ simultaneous effects.
As I said, I am not familiar with the Fantom, or the Integra, but what I am thinking is that the Fantom & Integra simply have less insert effects per program, than the Kronos has. As I said, the Kronos has 2 master, 12, insert, 2 Total = 16 effect. Does the Fantom has 12 insert effects per program? If you had a song made up of 16 programs, & each program was using 16 effects, that = 256 simultaneous effects! I highly doubt that even an Intel i7 3.2ghz CPU could handle that.
I really do love my Kronos though. I am really big into Analog Modeling/Virtual Analog, & I love it's multiple modeling/VA engines. (I have the Kronos, EXB-MOSS on my Triton, Z1, Microkorg, Alesis Fusion, Roland SH-01 Gaia, Yamaha EX5, & a PLG150-AN modeling board on my Motif (same engine as AN1x)
I also love a great acoustic piano sound, & the Kronos has that. I also have a real Yamaha C6 conservatory model grand piano, but it's in storage. :-(
The Kronos has the best pianos of all workstations IMO. The good thing about the Kronos is that it's a software based system, (Linux based OS) so it's capable up upgrades. Korg could easily add more/new modeling engines, effects, etc. I wish they'd give people access to the proprietary information in OS, so people could then "hack" the Kronos' software! hehehe. We can only imagine the possibilities!
Anyway, I regret having got off on the wrong foot, but fortunately that seems behind us now. I just love synthesizers & workstations, both vintage & modern, & always enjoy corresponding with like minded people who have similar interests.
I also feel sad about you getting a bad Kronos. So many problems....Korg should really have replaced it! The broken screen is a real bummer. :-( But I do believe it's still usable with the Kronos editing software. When it's running, you basically see a Kronos screen on your PC. The Kronos is a big/expensive investment. (& a great sounding synth) I'd hate to think you're not getting any use out of the money you spent. Give the software a try.
Well, take care & good luck.
What's the reason in all that shit Korg,when overall the sound - is terrible?
gjc82071
Best KRONOS selling point is not its awesome sound quality, you can find some better sounding instruments, especially analog synths, latest rolland workstation FA 08 is surprisingly good - nice samples and very easy to use. For example Hammond XK3C (onboard tube) beats kronos badly, prophet synths beats him very badly too. Even kingkorg with its onboard tube is surprisingly good i cant hear any difference against prophet unless i really try hard. Kronos sounds too digital like Virus TI. What i see as biggest point for KRONOS is that it can do EVERYTHING at good level. Unless you are sound purist you can replace many keyboards with KRONOS like i did, so yes its game changing instrument. I am still keeping PA 900 for gigs. Another game changing instrument is Roland Integra 7, i am very impressed by its synth engine SuperNATURAL synth. Anybody knows if this engine is for sale as separate module?
Gerry No
I have not use Roland for very long time. I have only stage piano and V accordion from Roland, so i do hot have experience with its boards. For newcomer I was pretty much impressed by FA - easy to use (like all Roland) and good sounds. I cant think about one thing which Kronos does very well, in every area including piano - specialized instrument beats it. Compare MS-20mini vs MS-20EX engine, hammond organs with 2 tubes vs Korg CX-3, Virus TI vs AL-1, PA3x vs Karma + sequencer backing tracks. AL-1 is really joke, all VA synths beats it. I agree with J Rudess - KRONOS can cover 95% of all your musical needs. Its not excellent instrument - its "i want to own only one board" instrument - for example instead of owning good stage piano, good organ, acceptable workstation and VA synth - you can just get Kronos and save space and money.
+Lenin Power! what I just don't like on the Roland FA is that it doesn't have any after after touch same with Korg Krome.
Tooooo fu...ing loud, I thought you are pro, not a knob:)
Very cheap sounds, compared to roland...
+Beatles Eternally well said and spot on Sir!
What is the name of the song he played at the beginning of the video with rhodes?
Babylon sister by Steely Dan
+Wolfgang Mertens Babylon sisters by Steely Dan