R200 000 to go off the grid: Cape Town resident chooses solar as load-shedding continues
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- The City of Cape Town plans to make it more lucrative for residents to sell excess power back to the City by introducing a cash incentive. Some Capetonians are now taking control of their energy demands and installing solar at their homes in an attempt to rid load-shedding from their lives.
#Electricity #solar #power
Subscribe to TimesLIVE Video here: / timeslive
Comment Moderation Policy: www.timeslive....
![[FROM THE ARCHIVES] Solar power(less) | Carte Blanche | M-Net](/img/n.gif)
I am no solar expert, but I have installed my own hybrid solar inverter (4.5 kW), panels (6 x 600w) and LiFePO4 battery (4.8Wh). The system runs all my home electronics, lights, fridges, microwave, coffee machine (probably the most important item), pool pump and some spare plugs in each room. Normally I only use about 2.2kW of the inverter capacity with the pool pump running, so I do have some spare capacity and the battery never drops below 80%, even after 4 hr load shedding at night. For those claiming of payback in 6-8 years, be careful. What is not taken into account are the winter months in Cape Town where solar output would drop to below 20% on cloudy days. Also, like all electric items, the inverter and battery do have a life span and should probably be depreciated over 10 years, I would estimate. In summary, it is great to not notice load shedding, and save some money (for me, about R1500 per month in the summer months), but unfortunately, the payback period based on the current components pricing will be very long, if at all. I view solar systems as just another necessary cost of living in South Africa, no different to medical aid, armed response, private education etc.
100%. Green energy is a feel-good scam. But in SA solar panels are definitely worth it.
Well projected. Thanks.
1000% true i have a 5kw hybrid and iam in limpopo, it works but its not reliable as coal . u need to save for wen the b3 dies or panels so your ryt
100% We live in kzn and we are off the grid. Rainwater is our only water and we harvest 30,000 litres for the winter. 42 volt pure sine wave inverter @5Kw and 1.5 kw solar charging a 5Kw Lit. iorn bat. We run water pump, one fridge/freezer, one freezer, one large fish tank, microwave, bread baking machine, aircon and fan( on extreemly hot days from 7Am to 15h00) lawn mower, toaster, snappy chef stove and 2 way radio and Phones with Wi Fi. Power managment is alwas a must. We do have a 5Kw diesel generator on stand by for battery charging if needed. Hot water and stove is gas if needed. Maintanance workshop has 5Kw petrol genset for welding and compressor and all the electrical hand tools. I grew up of the grid and always will be off the the grid.
And the cost
There is no limit to which the ANC will fail at!
Growing up without electricity during apartheid was a challenging experience. However, it taught me the resilience and strength that I possess today. It's unfortunate that some individuals' logic is so limited that they fail to recognise the hardships and struggles faced by others. It is a reminder that empathy and understanding are crucial in building a better and more equitable world. 20 Years ago, 70% of the country did not have electricity!
Well done ANC!!!
Helping us to get rid of them... great job indeed. :)
In 1988, my parents acquired a bonded property in Soshanguve, and for eight years, we lived without access to electricity. The harsh reality was that 70% of the country was also without electricity due to the systemic discrimination and oppression of apartheid. Nevertheless, the nation has come a long way, with over 90% of the population now having access to this basic necessity.
However, the road to progress has been fraught with challenges, and some may argue that corruption has played a role in impeding this progress. As we contemplate the best way forward, it is crucial to engage in critical thinking and not fall prey to simplistic, divisive narratives based solely on superficial factors such as race. We must evaluate the merits and drawbacks of each system objectively and make informed decisions.
First month for me being off grid, I'm now 99.8% off eskom.... Basically it's just there if I really need to topup but so far not really needed...
Cyril Ramaphosa said in 2015 that we would forget that we ever had loadshedding problems in 18-24months and I still believe it.....
"In 18-24 months we's need another 18 - 24 months." - Cyril
Most residents would love to go off the grid. Unfortunately its is out our budget completely at this point
Always start with gad before you move on to solar
Get a gas geyser
Get a gas stove
Use a stove kettle
Once you taken all the heat energy cost away then you start calculating solar
How about the city subsidizing households installing solar systems like many other countries do???
City can't afford it. Mist come from national government
"Give me free shit"-socialists
@@Panzerram Your uneducated response speaks volumes. 1. You obviously know nothing about "socialism" based on that statement. 2. Subsidising does not mean "free" (go and Google it if you have to!!). It is currently a common practice in many (capitalist) first world countries to subsidise solar installations (perhaps you should try travelling so you can expand your knowledge about the world). So I suggest you go and get an education, then perhaps you can make some intelligent comments in future. idiot!!!
@@rmmillerra "give me free shit"
@@Panzerram You do not need to be an Engineer (like myself) to know that reducing reliance on the grid benefits everyone...including YOU. I am already 60% less reliant on the grid (in summer) so it wouldn't benefit me directly , however getting more households to consume less (or better...nothing) from the grid should be the goal. The benefit to municipalities (and Eskom) is less wear on ageing infra-structure, lower loadshedding stages etc etc. Most average middle-class households cannot afford to come up with R80 000 (or more) upfront installation fees. The CoCT has a few options to off-set or reduce the initial burden (such as acquiring solar panels, batteries etc in bulk thereby reducing cost, negotiating reduced installation fees with installers, negotiate lower interest rates on loan repayments etc) thereby "subsidising" household installations for those still fully reliant on the grid....so no "freebies" and NOTHING to do with socialism (so THINK next time before commenting!!!).
FINALLY, an SA city starts "getting with the programme"! Now imaginr schools & libraries being able to fund community activities with funds it could genetate from renewable tech! Farmers could earn extra income too via agrivoltaics... insurance if crops fail or commodity prices are low...
Another option is community energy storage. For a small fee community can pool resources & store energy locally - no need for private energy storage tech.
Hopefully more cities follow suit soon!
My system cost me R330 000 and will never feed back into the grid. When you sell, they pay you less than what you pay per unit. No thanks, remove my eskom line to my house.
It's because of the 15% vat that you need to add brings you to what we pay now
They are only offering 70c per unit fed back, how is that fair if the lowest tariff charge these days is R2 for every unit customers consume. It's done intentionally, Gauteng was promised a policy change just to allow feeding back nevermind getting reimbursed - that was four years ago we're still waiting. If the decline continues, they'll be forced to rush policy and they will make mistakes, especially if they refuse to with consult the people on the ground who have experience with the in's and out's of solar generation.
They are still trying to push the fixed monthly cost of R1000 just for having an electrical connection, citing the 0.2% of the population with solar as the problem, ignorant fools.
@@MinusMedley I will request my eskom line to be removed by Aug if my system runs smoothly. Then they stick their charges where the sun dont shine.
It does make sense in a country short of supply, but if that stabilises they may reduce what they pay or even shut off feed in from home generators. That's what has happened in Australia due to oversupply. Other countries have also had problems with distributed solar generation causing grid instability.
Those who complain about the low rate paid for electricity you feed back in have to understand that there are costs and risks with allowing people to feed power into the grid.
To go off the grid you will need ( 4 person household)
1. Gas Hob
2. 7 Hubble 5.5kw batteries
3. 20 X 550W panels
4. 8kw inverter
This will set you back about R350K
Oh , and get a gas geyser. it costs about 1/3 the price of a normal geyser to run
R200 000 is a fuckton for the average resident, I got a very small set up able to run my fridges and PC for around R8 000, I can add 600w generation per day by adding one panel. So I can slowly grow my set up over time.
The real issue is people know VERY little about these things and even fewer are willing to learn.
Which hybrid inverter are you using? What capacity? I have one at home for the tv, Internet, computer.
@@mayasayonara9169 Im using a 1800w mecer hybrid inverter. I got it for R3500 on special a few months ago. The samew one now goes for around R4400 at chaos. If you have the money spend a bit more to get a pure sine wave inverter
@@AngeloXification Mine is a 1600 w or 24V Chadha Power hybrid inverter. Very reliable, powering for 2 years now
That's great to hear, add capacity slowly, don't put yourself in debt just keep the lights on.
If you got the R200 000...go for it...If you dont...put in a R60 000 battery..its fully charged within 90minutes...do not put yourself in a lot of dedt under these cicumstances...you can lose everything.
Don't think α lot of people can spend 60000 either
@@koffibeen3818 true
R60,000 will barely buy you a reasonable battery and inverter. Then there is still wiring, installation costs and certification.
In this country, during a blackout, your lights the only ones on and become a target for criminals - is orite👍🏼you can't have nice things in this place.
Sadly, nuclear is still the cleanest, most cost effective electricity generation technology still available today. We should be building another 2 or 3 nuclear power stations.
I very much agree with this, unfortunately building one is expensive, costing around 6 to 10 billion USD, or like R102 billion to R171 billion, if we do build 3 more than that's R306 billion to R513 billion. That's more than enough to pay for Eskoms debts. I'd love us to move to Renewables especially Nuclear just because of how efficient it is and that it can be on 24/7 but realistically policy makers won't be on board
Yea, but they take too long to build. Panels go up quick and have a fast payback. Nuclear takes long term commitment.
Also nuclear waste is put on ships which just sail around the world endlessly and we don't know what to do with that.
@@samuelwilliams7331 nothing in life is achieved without long-term commitment
@@seadkolasinac7220
Great video explaining the economics and why most democratic places will not have the political will to build nuclear even though it makes sense in the long term. ua-cam.com/video/cbeJIwF1pVY/v-deo.html
But if the grid collapses you are still not an island
That's strictly dependent on capacity. Solar installations still require conservative use, even with my small system we ran the entire household (TV, Lights, Several PCs, two refrigerators, kettle and microwave) when the city lost power for entire week due down powerlines. Hot water is a luxury and a gas stove kills two birds with one stone. I believe anyone patient enough to expand slowly like I did can get to that point, unfortunately bigger picture thinking is a rare commodity. Charging station at my house when the grid collapses 🥲, although I see your point coz if that really happens it's more important to be armed to the T.
When loadshedding happens and you have backup.. you need to switch off lights too otherwise you become an instant target by criminals
Also have solar. I don't think you need that mutch. My advise is get enough power for stuff you want in loadshedding. Like your fridge, kettle and TV...if you have the cash then go mad obviously
Just look at the difference, DA run western cape vs ANC run rest of South Africa
The shading on the panels bothers me (as an energy consultant i'm not happy)
I am still on-grid, but with 6X 466 W solar panels, 2X5.1 kW batteries and 1X5.1 kW hybrid inverter, my Eskom power is costing me me a pittance, maybe R50 per month. (And my system cost me R117K). Been going for for 16 months.
I live in Tshwane, and the useless municipality put me on prepaid about 2 years ago, so I cannot put excess electricity back onto the grid. But with 2 batteries, I am now running at about 90% efficiency, most of what I don't use gets stored in the batteries.
No one has 2 or 300K laying around, I hope the Government finally isn’t messing around when it comes to Wind & Solar
Sadly the ANC is basically Shell/Total Energies etc with most of their sponsorship coming from oil and gas. They fight renewable energy everyday and keep pushing for these old energy systems
Nobody in these videos went “off grid” for 200k. Still paying R500+ a month probably without accounting for the grid charge either.
That's cool, but what about those of us who don't have R200k? Most people don't. We need an inexpensive system that will run the tv for 2 x 2hrs each day. ie: a 100w panel, a 100Ah battery, an inverter and a controller. That can be done for R5000 - R6000.
What you want is a miracle ....
Yes Steve you make a very valid point. Most people cannot afford to install solar. Too expensive.
Look into portable powerstations. We bought an EcoFlow River Pro (720 Wh) powerstation last year for R11.9k. It runs our TVs, media system, internet, my workstation and my gaming station very well. You can use it as an inline UPS. With a light, fan and my beafy gaming system connected I can run the load for 3 hours. Just the TV, soundbar, internet and a light it can run for 10 hours. Best part is that it fully charges within an hour so you're already stocked up for the next round of loadshedding. You can even buy an extended battery and double capacity to 1440 Wh.
@@tonynz9954 Sorry to say this but those who cannot afford the solar installation have a power of vote, they just need to be strategic with their voting and "bam" power will be up for everyone....
Then a 12volt car battery and 2500watts inverter. But its still a waste coz you need to charge it daily. And itll only run a few appliances like likes speakers and tv asumming youd want to watch tv during load shedding. Thats what we used. Until my dad a problem 25k inverter and a few gel batteries. But not yet solar panels so its not running the whole house
For that amount of money it is better to emigrate.. if only 1 million residents have solar.. what about the other 49 million who don't?
You don't need solar panels for a backup system used during load shedding. You need a battery charger/inverter and a battery bank. Normal sealed lead-acid batteries will last you about 6-8 years, but are three times cheaper than LI-Po batteries. Li-Po batteries weighs about a quarter what lead acid batteries weigh, so is normally used in portable devices and electric vehicles. Li-Po batteries needs a BMS (Battery management system) which is normally included in the battery housing,. They normally carry a 10 year warranty , but have only been on the market for +-8 years, go figure. Using napkin calculations , if you invest R200 000 at +- 9% pa you will have R1500 a month to pay electricity and don't have to worry about rainy days when your solar system is generating about 10% capacity. Solar systems is another expensive toy and not a money saver.
My electricity bill is R1200, I am not a candidate for this 🤔
It's amazing how CT with significantly less industry has no financial issues when it comes to procuring solar. Just really goes to show how damaging the gross mis-management of funds here in Gauteng is.
The DA took over Ekurhuleni for about 8 months before the EFF and ANC formed a coalition to push them out. In that 8 months, they paid off our municipality's debt to Eskom, replenished our refuse collection fleet (From 3 vehicles to 20+), started fixing potholes that have been present for over 5 years, cut the grass and cleaned up public spaces, fixed street lights, and started a process to procure private power.
Within a month of them getting pushed out by the ANC, all the service delivery came to a halt. I haven't seen municipal workers fixing anything since. They've run out of budget for overtime. People are stealing fuses in our street and it takes them more than a week to replace it.
The saddest part of all of this is that even after seeing the difference, people are still going to go vote for the ANC because they saved them from opression. I'm thankful for what the ANC did 30 years ago, but how long is it going to take people to realize that they're still being oppressed? How long will it take South African's to realize that 40% unemployment rate is a form of oppression. How long will it take South African's to realize that standing in line for 10 hours to collect R500 to try and get food for your children is oppression? How long will it take for people to realize that being deprived of a basic human right that every other developed country managed to figure out years ago is oppression? How long will it take for people to figure out that their tax funded hospitals that kill people on a daily basis because of pure neglect and understaffing is oppression?
Wake up South Africa!
So I want to put Solar on my house... But it will cost me R160 000. With the increase of everything from electricity, food, petrol and our bonds. We have not received increases due to covid and the load shedding. We have jobs and yes we are very lucky to have that. But I can not afford solar with it being so high. We have to pay Vat on everything solar and there are import duties loaded on the price. Why do we have to pay all the fees loaded on solar and let the government benefit???
With a R160 000 system you will not be off-grid. People who tell you that, is feeding you utter nonsense. "Completely Off-grid" means you have NO Eskom connected to your house whatsoever. This also mean your system and generator must be big enough to charge the batteries, no matter what the conditions. This will also mean you have to spend money on gas appliances and then replace the gas bottles at an expense when empty. You will keep spending money for alternative ways to generate power, like gas and fuel for generators. Completel off-grid means you have a big enough power system (which will cost you NOTHING) when operating it. Return on your solar investment exculded
)
Tax & import duties have to be removed from all these products cause the govt is unable to supply us with electricity.
What about the monthly electricity connection fee that is proposed when going off grid completely? I believe it is in the range of R1000 to R1500 per month.
Will probably not be implemented with the kak that is going around now. Note if u are 100% off grid u wont pay that. This 1K is for ppl that want to use the grid when their batteries fail. You said "off grid". Was that partially off grid or 100%?
@@jkoorts And fail, they will.
@@jkoorts You'll still pay local taxes one way or another. If they currently use electricity fees to subsidise other things they'll shift those fees if too many people don't buy enough electricity.
@@loganmedia1142 Absolutely.
My colleague went off the grid.
I said "damn we're at stage 6"
He said "really? Wow"
Long story short, I'm saving up to get off the grid.
We Farm our bill is 14k sometimes 20k getting solar also Eskom se Po@#s
It would be interesting to see the real savings. How does someone put in a system that almost completely replaces R50,000 per year of electricity for only R300,000? What's the generation like on cloudy days?
Is this still being applied?
Imagine if most of the taxpayers installed solar panels, and stopped paying Eskom. The state-owned Company would go bankrupt as most of the people getting power are not paying for it. Those not paying for electricity will then be forced to pay, and the price would be too high. That's where I think we heading.
'Those not paying for electricity will then be forced to pay' -- how could they be forced, especially if it's millions of people?
@Sead Kolasinac well I guess the taxpayers will pay for it indirectly. It's really sad what is happening. It's a lose lose either way
The majority, even in the middle class, having no chance of affording these expensive solutions, which means plenty of people still needing power from a utility. Some of the middle class will pay for what they use. The rest will need subsidised electricity.
If you are off the grid, and Eskom collapses.. you still need to worry about hoards of looters during that blackout period. Two weeks minimum to bring it back online.. I believe.
R200k? What a joke! You can get off the grid for R50k and much less
We went Solar in August 2022 and we use on average about 30 units of power per month. Honestly we don't even notice when the power goes off and even on cloudy days we still get our batteries charger to 100%. One day when it rained, we still got our batteries to the max. We are considering to buy extra battery to go off the grid completely.
Hi great to hear that. Could you please share the company you used to install your solar
just wait until those panels start failing & batteries need replacing, and MUCH SOONER than they might think, then the true economic infeasibility of solar power is going to hit those owners like a BRICK WALL
Most solar equipment warranty is 5-10 years, return on investment is still sitting at 3 years even with current prices, even sooner if the new tariff increase is approved.
@@MinusMedley the panels have a warranty, yes, but NOT the most expensive part, the batteries, because without the batteries, solar is a failed technology
Taking the installation cost + battery replacement every 3 years into account, your maths on ROI fail badly. Break even might be in 40 years time, if at all
@@mmb811 A good lithium battery guarantees 6000 cycles down to 80% capacity. That only lasts waaaaay more than 3 years. Such a properly set up battery will last you many many years. A good inverter will last 10-15 years easy and today’s panels will last 20-25 years.
The tech evolves rapidly. Today panels are about 23% efficient, they were at 10% a mere 12 years ago. And at a lower cost. Solar is the future for households, am not talking about power-hungry factories. I believe in the future, new houses will be built with a full integrated solar system with panels, inverter and batteries, it will probably be an option but at a fraction of the cost of a whole new house.
@@OliveBreizh Just on the battery alone, you are WAY OVER OPTIMISTIC, with current loadshedding, those cycles will be done, at absolute latest & if you SUPER LUCKY 5/6 years, then its back to buying new batteries which make up the LION COSTS
Sorry, talk to me when the tech has become an adult, because at the moment you trying to make an infant do the work of a grown man!
Can someone please recommend which are the best and most reliable installer as scammers will take advantage of this situation.
Just a simple reminder they are ramping up price's if you pay more for a of the grid system than R120.000 you must know that you must get some more quotasions these stuff are not that expensive be careful
It’s impossible to go off grid for 120k or even 200k. Unless you plan to compensate by braaing every night and having cold showers.
@@SauRoNZA I did it with just under 100k + a DIY installation. Gas stove and hot showers are definitely a luxury. That was more than a year ago though, I started seeing supply shortages in Feb 2022 so that price is unlikely these days.
Yes if you have a solar hot water system gas stove you can go of grit witheout spending to much
I can not believe that eskom before 1994 was a thriving business, now it has been reduced to rubbish. Congratulations A*N*C.
Yes, Cyril Ramaphoza says loadshedding is causing havoc.Lmao😂🤬😈😠😡The Anc is f'n causing havoc. They are above the law. Corruption is the order of the day. They are ignorant to the problems of the country. Still blaming apartheid. Anyway, well done CPT mayor.
Say it as it is . Eskom was fine during apartheid
Strangely it's generation capacity has grown since the 80s, but demand has grown faster. It was also a highly subsidised business. The things the old government did right were subsidies and price controls.
Just pack up and leave with that kind of money to start somewhere else with no problem like this.
China thanks you for your purchase of their solar panels
Thank you City for doing Ur best, ANC not doing enuf.
You can see the strings...
I wish we could all do this so we can tell eskom to go stuff it...they are ridiculous amazing how a power company has a country at its knees.
R200 000? Hahaha the privileged will always stay priveleged without knowing or acknowledging it. These solutions for the wealthy is just a slap in the face of the vast majority of those living in abject poverty around the city. Come up with a solution to help those people.
Imagine. 😂😂😂 As much as I love this system, but R200 000😭😭
@rian aucamp couldn’t have said it better, thank you.
If you can afford it why not most of us won’t be able to.
Well done city of Cape Town. PROGRESS. Wake up rest of SA. Vote conservative 2024 and leave the radicals as clearly THAT does not work.
If you can afford it, go for it 👍
Coming back to South Africa 😅😅I need solar Cs wow I can’t do Load shedding
Only $11,000.00 that’s cheap
Cool
Why no load shedding in Soweto???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Good point!
Probably full of voters.
Vote DA.
So 200k to go completely off grid
It depends on what your usage is. As a two person household we're not eliminating the grid, but coming very close for R107k.
@@0BuLLeT01Hey Can You Please Tell Me Or Explain To Me More About Registration Fee And Are You Not Expected To Pay Any Amount Once You're Fully Off Grid?
I'm Trying To Understand Because I Heard Rumors That Solar Users Might Get Taxed...
@@benncube3529 solar won't be taxed. You still have to pay your rates for your connection to the grid. And I think you can even sell excess electricity back to eskom.
Not a chance. Maybe on the best days of summer, but one poor cloudy day or most of winter and you’ll be needing the grid.
How long before you have to replace the panels and batteries? They don't last a lifetime. And how and where do you dispose of the panels made of coal and quartz?
and is the average South African able to go solar ?
No. Not even the majority of the middle class can afford this sort of thing.
i install a AA battery on my torch. Fuck eskom.
Eish in the ghetto they steal solar panels and geyser off the roofs
That's a moerse lot off money Cyril will work better
A more realistic saving is R1000 a month
Welcome to 1990 SA, (by global standards) be it 33 years late.
They'll highly tax solar panels soon enough.
With solo
MW a day. Geez man
What a waste cos having all them solar u wl still have to pay ur electricity mmmm funny how SA laws work😅
lol how long do that batteries last
Reason's I love White's
Good for you.
In 1988, my parents acquired a bonded property in Soshanguve, and for eight years, we lived without access to electricity. The harsh reality was that 70% of the country was also without electricity due to the systemic discrimination and oppression of apartheid. Nevertheless, the nation has come a long way, with over 90% of the population now having access to this basic necessity.
However, the road to progress has been fraught with challenges, and some may argue that corruption has played a role in impeding this progress. As we contemplate the best way forward, it is crucial to engage in critical thinking and not fall prey to simplistic, divisive narratives based solely on superficial factors such as race. We must evaluate the merits and drawbacks of each system objectively and make informed decisions.
what about your carbon footprint going solar? ...all that cobalt and lithium ? all the future waste ?
so keep using Eskom coal?
@@seadkolasinac7220 use the quality coal thats being shipped to China and Europe.
This is a very great potential solution but without a proper socio-economic implication forecasting this can slide into Energy 'Feudalism' real quick..
True. Energy is purest form of currency these days, this is the why private producers are being crippled by policy. Competition is inevitable.
So the Rich get Richer...lol
It is a no- brainer but unfortunately our country is run by people with n brains at all...they could have gone this route 12years ago when it was proposed but ya neh... ANC SE POES