Please don’t think me to be racist from my ignorance oh the subject. Wouldn’t an ethnocentric race like Japan be racist? Or China? I’m confused… please help me?
I love you guys. I was bombarded and treated like crap in a "Norse pagan" group, because I spoke up against racism, I'm also a trans guy and I've been met by a lot of transphobia within certain communities, but you guys make me feel safe. Thank you ❤️❤️
I never add that Norse bit when I say I’m pagan, even though my ancestors are from countries all surrounding the North Sea. I’ve been bombarded too by speaking out in certain comments sections
The graveyard cleaning is such a good idea! That sounds like a fun and festive Samhain eve activity. Clean some graves before the feast and fire that night.
As a queer woman, I have queer women who are ancestors, from Marlene Dietrich to Marsha P. Johnson, I do not descend from in terms of blood. But I regard them as ancestors of a sort.
@@kodiak4777 totally! being italian and swedish by blood, doesn't mean i can't adopt Australian aboriginal ancestors, because that's makes total sense.
I died when Wolf said "hey buddy, you've been doing that really well for a long time". I literally spit my coffee out and now I have to clean the couch🤣. May ALL the ancestors watch over us and never turn their backs on us.
To be fair... much of this we talked about here I haven't covered in my other videos on ancestor veneration. I talked with beofeld for two hours and with this hour with Ocean I feel we covered distinctly new information.
I love the energy that you two have, it looks like you've rehearsed your dialogues beforehand 😁 It's good that you mention homophobia and transphobia, but one should not forget also the toxic culture around consent and social status for most of history, where for example slaves didn't have any level of control over what happened their body. I have long been intrigued by the subject of ancestor worship and I'm really glad you made this panel, thank you guys!
I tend to call myself an eclectic heathen due to my mixed ties to Wicca in the past through my mother and her teachings, and my hedge witch studies as I got older and explored what felt and worked for me specifically. I was called to heathenry as I advanced further in my studies and expanded to learn more about the norse pantheon and figuring out where my specific skills could be most useful. Glad you guys brought up recon and eclectical studies of heathenry.
I admit my efforts on that third pillar of Heathenry per ancestor veneration is slow going, there is so much shame on white Americans and *a lot* of it is earned, but learning about my own ancestors and ancestry in general has been a wild ride of realizing how badly colonized even other "white" cultures were by the dominant forces (and they're only "white" now since previously English and American "whites" didn't consider them white). I find it can make me angry. How much the culture of my own ancestors was erased by Christianity and/or English rule, how much has been lost that we might never get back. Its a fraction of the pain caused to BIPOC but still so, SO hard to deal with sometimes.
The difference between reconstructionist and revivalist explains the problem I had in a group of Celtics reconstructionists I came across awhile ago: they seemed to be missing the revival part. It seemed like if they couldn't support something directly in the lore or other sources it wasn't valid. Really turned me off to recon for awhile.
so glad we're able to engage in ancestor veneration while deconstructing racist ideas and including spiritual ancestors. we need more of this in the world!
I'll look at getting a separate mic for next year. I also thought it was pretty loud when exporting it but I can also balance the audio louder next time.
Great panel very very informative I love the content both you gentlemen put for unto the pagan community and to the world I hope you two go on to put out a lot more. I know you guys have stated that you don’t want to be doing this forever but we need your voices and others to counteract the content that WOO puts out
Yes! That guy is everywhere norse paganism comes up. YT tries to promote the white supremacists instead of the inclusive heathens. Their algorithm sucks.
This is my second time listening to this and I'm gonna have to listen again cause I'm sure I've missed things. But, all in all an amazing and (despite my previous statement) engaging presentation. 10/10 guys.
HILDA ELLIS REPERSENTION YESSS And you’re 100%, I am reading it for furthering my education and practices (which is important as someone who shares info on my instagram about Norse paganism) and it makes my brain hurt. But so worth it. Highly recommend.
I have two candles, a plant, and a plaster skull on my ancestor altar, the candles are white and black, white for the known and black for the unknown.. I took my ancestor veneration from Traditional Witchcraft according to Besom Stang and Sword.
New sub...n ...btw..where did you get your shirt,please? ( wolf the red),I think it's awesome 👌!!(Never mind,I saw your explanation down below in a comment....thanks) ! 👍🐺🧙♂️🐺👍!
Have you (you guys?) ever done anything explaining the parts that you’ve had to add to your practice because it’s missing, as part of your revivalism? I’m trying to figure out where I fit in the recon/revival/modern spectrum.
I don't think I have gone into it in video form. I know ocean has a video titled "reconstructionist/ revivalist / eclectic" you should probably check out. I bet it answers your question on the "where do I fit in" part. But if you want to join the discord I'm down to chat about it if you're ever interested.
I love your guys stuff and I’m just now getting into the path and I’ve been doing a lot of research on the history of the path I just recently watched a video on a unnamed god that was so holy or so great in there traditions that was the one creationist god from the Norse Scandinavian traditions I would like your thoughts on that but the person discussing was making an argument on that all the religions were connected not saying I agree with that I’m just curious on ur thoughts
Yeah that just sounds like soft polytheism that erases the diversity of experience and uniqueness of traditions throughout history. I don't put any stock into that idea at all.
i’ve recently began to explore heathenry and paganism in general after being a christian for 24 years (my whole life). but i’ve always kind of believed that once we die we are sort of reconnected to the divine energy that makes us up. that’s sort of why the concept of multiple deities with different aspects and personalities makes sense to me. i believe all humans and animals and inanimate objects are made up, in some way, of divine energy. all religions point to that concept, so there must be some degree of validity behind it. but all humans have different personality traits and whatnot, and we oftentimes can find likenesses of various gods and goddesses in people. because of this line of thinking, i have loosely developed an idea that possibly when people die they are in some way reconnected to whichever manifestation of divinity makes them up, if that makes sense. this is in response to the portion in the middle where the camera cut out about ancestors changing their minds.😊 hail the ancestors!
Will admit the concept of adopting ancestors strikes me as pretty weird. It honestly brings to mind (in a not-quite-the-same-but-my-mind-works-in-mysterious-ways kinda manner) the Mormon practice of baptizing ancestors, which understandably cause a huge controversy a while back. That said, I suspect it might be similar, in anything but name, to how I do venerate a local hero, almost as if he was family. I don't consider him to be an ancestor of mine (tho honestly after 1000 years who even knows) but still important to who I am, and to who the people who live here are, both now and historically. For all I know we might only differ on the semantics.
In practice I'm sure we align more than we disagree. It's definitely not taking a Christian and making them heathen after their death. It's just giving them honor and thanks for at least getting us this far. Remembering them with acts and thoughts is enough. We aren't forcing our modern ideals onto them.
This was such a fun panel. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to present with you. I had a blast.
I'll twist your arm into doing more of these!
Thor tried testing my knowledge on Norse Mythology, but I don't know all of them. I don't Hávamál.
Please don’t think me to be racist from my ignorance oh the subject. Wouldn’t an ethnocentric race like Japan be racist? Or China? I’m confused… please help me?
Hail the Ancester. Those of blood. Those of choice. Those of necessity.
Hail to the ancestors both (biological and spiritual)! May they guide us with their wisdom!
Just realized... Bringing flowers on my grandparents'grave is ancestor worship... Great topic and analysis
Absolutely it is
@@WolfTheRed I wrote a song for my grandma to honor her. She left behind a desk I plan on writing songs I write in honor of Bragi
I love you guys. I was bombarded and treated like crap in a "Norse pagan" group, because I spoke up against racism, I'm also a trans guy and I've been met by a lot of transphobia within certain communities, but you guys make me feel safe. Thank you ❤️❤️
I hope we always live up to that mate.
I never add that Norse bit when I say I’m pagan, even though my ancestors are from countries all surrounding the North Sea. I’ve been bombarded too by speaking out in certain comments sections
The graveyard cleaning is such a good idea! That sounds like a fun and festive Samhain eve activity. Clean some graves before the feast and fire that night.
As a queer woman, I have queer women who are ancestors, from Marlene Dietrich to Marsha P. Johnson, I do not descend from in terms of blood. But I regard them as ancestors of a sort.
Absolutely!
Absolutly nothing wrong with adopting ancestors! If that is what you want to call it.
@@kodiak4777 totally! being italian and swedish by blood, doesn't mean i can't adopt Australian aboriginal ancestors, because that's makes total sense.
I died when Wolf said "hey buddy, you've been doing that really well for a long time". I literally spit my coffee out and now I have to clean the couch🤣. May ALL the ancestors watch over us and never turn their backs on us.
This is such an amazing talk and a topic I don't think it covered enough in an in depth way.
I wish you included footage of rituals to your ancestors. That would have rounded out the video perfectly.
Ocean you helped me out of the broom closet
heck yeah! good to hear
Great panel guys! I'm so sorry that I missed it and couldn't make it out to Mystic South. So informative!❤
Where did wolf get this shirt? I need this shirt, or shirts like it. I just got the shirt thirst right now!
Lunafide! Great quality. Bad customer service. Very expensive. Worth it in the end though cause no one else makes these kinds of clothes right now.
Kinda wish there was more that you two haven't already covered in other videos but glad I got to see the panel without getting to be there.
To be fair... much of this we talked about here I haven't covered in my other videos on ancestor veneration. I talked with beofeld for two hours and with this hour with Ocean I feel we covered distinctly new information.
I love the energy that you two have, it looks like you've rehearsed your dialogues beforehand 😁 It's good that you mention homophobia and transphobia, but one should not forget also the toxic culture around consent and social status for most of history, where for example slaves didn't have any level of control over what happened their body.
I have long been intrigued by the subject of ancestor worship and I'm really glad you made this panel, thank you guys!
to believe is not a skin from. Believing is a choice no matter where you are from
"I'm gonna butcher this," he says, then says a word I could never pronounce.
He did pretty well right? Lol
I tend to call myself an eclectic heathen due to my mixed ties to Wicca in the past through my mother and her teachings, and my hedge witch studies as I got older and explored what felt and worked for me specifically. I was called to heathenry as I advanced further in my studies and expanded to learn more about the norse pantheon and figuring out where my specific skills could be most useful. Glad you guys brought up recon and eclectical studies of heathenry.
I admit my efforts on that third pillar of Heathenry per ancestor veneration is slow going, there is so much shame on white Americans and *a lot* of it is earned, but learning about my own ancestors and ancestry in general has been a wild ride of realizing how badly colonized even other "white" cultures were by the dominant forces (and they're only "white" now since previously English and American "whites" didn't consider them white). I find it can make me angry. How much the culture of my own ancestors was erased by Christianity and/or English rule, how much has been lost that we might never get back. Its a fraction of the pain caused to BIPOC but still so, SO hard to deal with sometimes.
All of this is so valid and will take time to process. Keep working on it at your own pace. Don't give up.
I love your context never stop from Denmark
The difference between reconstructionist and revivalist explains the problem I had in a group of Celtics reconstructionists I came across awhile ago: they seemed to be missing the revival part. It seemed like if they couldn't support something directly in the lore or other sources it wasn't valid. Really turned me off to recon for awhile.
so glad we're able to engage in ancestor veneration while deconstructing racist ideas and including spiritual ancestors. we need more of this in the world!
I think we should talk about sound check. Jk jk. Totally kidding. Great panel brothers. Hail the Old Gods and Goddesses!!
I'll look at getting a separate mic for next year. I also thought it was pretty loud when exporting it but I can also balance the audio louder next time.
Fantastic. Thank you for doing this
Great panel very very informative I love the content both you gentlemen put for unto the pagan community and to the world I hope you two go on to put out a lot more. I know you guys have stated that you don’t want to be doing this forever but we need your voices and others to counteract the content that WOO puts out
Yes! That guy is everywhere norse paganism comes up. YT tries to promote the white supremacists instead of the inclusive heathens. Their algorithm sucks.
This is my second time listening to this and I'm gonna have to listen again cause I'm sure I've missed things. But, all in all an amazing and (despite my previous statement) engaging presentation. 10/10 guys.
HILDA ELLIS REPERSENTION YESSS
And you’re 100%, I am reading it for furthering my education and practices (which is important as someone who shares info on my instagram about Norse paganism) and it makes my brain hurt. But so worth it. Highly recommend.
I have two candles, a plant, and a plaster skull on my ancestor altar, the candles are white and black, white for the known and black for the unknown.. I took my ancestor veneration from Traditional Witchcraft according to Besom Stang and Sword.
💖 love this and you guys rock
I'm so late to this but fantastic as always and I'm so glad it was uploaded
Thanks for posting this. It was a good talk.
New sub...n ...btw..where did you get your shirt,please? ( wolf the red),I think it's awesome 👌!!(Never mind,I saw your explanation down below in a comment....thanks) !
👍🐺🧙♂️🐺👍!
Probably the aspect of heathenry i struggle with the most
You guys are great.
Good talk bro 😆
Have you (you guys?) ever done anything explaining the parts that you’ve had to add to your practice because it’s missing, as part of your revivalism? I’m trying to figure out where I fit in the recon/revival/modern spectrum.
I don't think I have gone into it in video form. I know ocean has a video titled "reconstructionist/ revivalist / eclectic" you should probably check out. I bet it answers your question on the "where do I fit in" part. But if you want to join the discord I'm down to chat about it if you're ever interested.
Is the audio super low for anyone else or just me? I have my laptop at max volume and am struggling to hear things.
I fee it's low too
I love your guys stuff and I’m just now getting into the path and I’ve been doing a lot of research on the history of the path I just recently watched a video on a unnamed god that was so holy or so great in there traditions that was the one creationist god from the Norse Scandinavian traditions I would like your thoughts on that but the person discussing was making an argument on that all the religions were connected not saying I agree with that I’m just curious on ur thoughts
Yeah that just sounds like soft polytheism that erases the diversity of experience and uniqueness of traditions throughout history.
I don't put any stock into that idea at all.
i’ve recently began to explore heathenry and paganism in general after being a christian for 24 years (my whole life). but i’ve always kind of believed that once we die we are sort of reconnected to the divine energy that makes us up. that’s sort of why the concept of multiple deities with different aspects and personalities makes sense to me. i believe all humans and animals and inanimate objects are made up, in some way, of divine energy. all religions point to that concept, so there must be some degree of validity behind it. but all humans have different personality traits and whatnot, and we oftentimes can find likenesses of various gods and goddesses in people. because of this line of thinking, i have loosely developed an idea that possibly when people die they are in some way reconnected to whichever manifestation of divinity makes them up, if that makes sense. this is in response to the portion in the middle where the camera cut out about ancestors changing their minds.😊 hail the ancestors!
Will admit the concept of adopting ancestors strikes me as pretty weird. It honestly brings to mind (in a not-quite-the-same-but-my-mind-works-in-mysterious-ways kinda manner) the Mormon practice of baptizing ancestors, which understandably cause a huge controversy a while back.
That said, I suspect it might be similar, in anything but name, to how I do venerate a local hero, almost as if he was family. I don't consider him to be an ancestor of mine (tho honestly after 1000 years who even knows) but still important to who I am, and to who the people who live here are, both now and historically.
For all I know we might only differ on the semantics.
In practice I'm sure we align more than we disagree. It's definitely not taking a Christian and making them heathen after their death.
It's just giving them honor and thanks for at least getting us this far. Remembering them with acts and thoughts is enough. We aren't forcing our modern ideals onto them.
Is wolf part of an mc?
Yep