Backers are definitely being more selective now and people are walking away from FOMO. It's going to be an exciting time to see what comes next, I hope it keeps progressing.
I think the Nemesis brand and AR's history is what really drove the Retaliation campaign. If this was any indi publisher, the numbers wouldn't be great. I think trust is a premium in the industry right now, and AR has earned that goodwill
Absolutely. All it takes is one bad experience for a backer to be a lot more selective of the companies they support through crowdfunding. To go along with that, I have decided to support campaigns as little as possible through Kickstarter and support them in the PM instead so Kickstarter the company gets as little of my money as possible.
The part you’re missing is that by design, we won’t know whether a campaign was “bad” until after the product is delivered. If you’re only gauging by how much money was raised, you’re overlooking the most relevant criterion for whether the campaign was bad. Seen it too many times where the game either doesn’t deliver, or it’s not playable so they have to make an “upgrade pack” for another $100
Yea I’ve stepped back from kickstarters just from the uptick of odd and shady things that seem to be popping up more. I’d love to see some protection and accountability
I agree there should be some protections or something. CF has always been risky, mainly because that was the place you used to go when you couldn't get started "traditionally" but sometimes endeavors tap out. How do we separate the true "Hey, this is a longshot dream project I need help with" from "Hey, back this one so we can fulfill the one 2 campaigns ago." At least KS allows us to view their history, but it needs an option or perhaps a sticker to see if the campaign was not only funded but distributed to everyone.
Charging slightly more for previous pledge runs is still cheaper than the scalpers. Previous medic on ebay is as high as $139.99, sundropped $150.00. Here is only $10.00.
good video and some good tips. I think it being an Awaken Realms game really helped as well. They are a well known company in the board game industry that does do a lot more than most, like an interactive Q&A every week or every other week. They are responsive to questions and communication. They give backers a piece of mind that if they back it they will get it in a time where that isn't really certain. I really love the approach they started with no monetary stretch goals as it allows them to set the scope from day 1 and then we aren't 3 years later still waiting on the game. they've gotten a lot better and I think they learned well from some of the earlier mistakes. The faith is there and they are one company people will flock to when others are failing.
One campaign is not the industry. This is an aberration, not the trend. People have stacks of games yet to be played that are still being delivered. We do not trust that even established names will continue to deliver games - and if they do that the quality will be up to par. CMON with Eric Lang is not CMON after he left. CMON is still pulling in money - but people are just now getting to really understand the downturn in quality in the games. There will be aberrations, but the value proposition just isn't there anymore. Even if you can afford to buy them, can you afford the time to play them ... and if you can't - how long before you stop buying games you won't get to play? Oversaturated markets, decreasing quality, increasing costs, increased scams ... the drivers of the trends are pushing down dramatically. Additionally - a lot of the things you praise encourage people to spend more than they can afford and disguise the impact. That eventually comes home to roost and people then have to make big cuts in their spending behavior. These "pay over time" and "let's just slip a little more in the pledge manager" techniques will do damage to the industry as well.
Oh certainly not a trend! Didn't mean to imply that either because totally agreed. But it does show the possibility is still there for companies. I think before this the general idea is that no matter what, your campaign will fund less. There are less people willing to spend less. And while I feel that's generally true, there's certainly lots of success still available to devs as well. It's actually happened a few times this year and I'd like to end this year on a positive note like that if I can :)
Stretch Pay played a huge roll in raising so much money for Nemesis Retaliation. I really want a sci-fi dungeon crawler, but I'm not sold on Retaliation. I wanted to get everything for Nemesis OG, but realized something though. I love Nemesis OG, but no one I know likes it. Not my regular group and not the new players that gave it a go (both first time and returning for a second try). Have the same problem with Kingdom Death Monster, lol. So Nemesis OG will be sold as soon as I paint the aliens.
What's the point of scheduling the campaign for 2 weeks versus longer when stretch goals are based on the calendar days not amount sold? Also when the late pledge page opens immediately after the campaign ends. This campaign is more of a preorder rather than a crowd funded game.
For me its more about people focus on the negative more so the positive. Crowd funding was never dead and their are plenty of great campaigns in 2023. People just tend to experience some problems and then look at everything as being a problem. How many people had problems with Mythic, and now think Ludus Magnus Studios, Lazy Squire, or Succubus publishing are in the same boat. I even saw a comment under Nemesis saying that Awakened Realms would never deliver it because their like Mythic. People take that one or several negatives and encompass all of Crowdfunding in it. However the truth is that their are more successful campaigns then their were failures, that its not even 1% crowdfunding that failed.
Another reason for their success is: They offer their games in many language versions. In this case 6 languages. So many publisher just go the easy way with English only oder maybe French. That's it. My opinion is, to be successful in the future you have to offer more then this 2 basic languages. At least the rules have to come in multiple languages. This can't be to difficult. Some publishers have to learn through pain.
If Zombicide White Death did this and added Black Plague and Green Horde... I also wish I could back Nemesis. I want it. But I recently just backed Final Girl with an ultimate pledge as I don't own any of it and wanted all of it. I want all of Nemesis... sad face.
Must.... stay ...strong. My plan for next year is mostly to expand games I already have, like Conan and A Song Of Ice And Fire and not buying even more completly new games. Okay besides God of War 😅
I love that quote. Kickstarter is to monitize the audience. Yes! Street Fighter the Miniatures Game was only possible because Angry Joe' and Street Fighter's audience funded the game. Those minis are amazing!
I apologize if I didn't clarify well, there is plenty of nice texture on the final minis, but what you're seeing in those renders is a fake, won't ever even be attempted to reproduce texture over the whole thing. It's added to make the render look nicer only.
To me, it seems like CF is just a "nu-store" where established and industry people have opened up, in multiple fields. Backers have seemed to shift, probably due to the "bad campaigns" where they only want to back established people because the risk for a newcomer is too high. Which, after the last few years with campaigns to fuel campaigns is a reasonable response. As someone who wants to do a CF to afford artists for a Print on demand style game, and miniatures, it just seems a little hostile/risky area now. Which is a shame because that was what KS started, for those of us who cannot get started traditionally.
Personally I much prefer game found as a place to find and back games, I only use Kickstarter and Backer when I am forced too. I do really like The Nemsis series and just hope Retaliation lives up to the other two (more so Nemesis for me). I really like Awaken realms games, ISS Vanguard is probably my biggest disappointment though with their games.
Does bad campaign counts in all those that have a shipping price and then asked for more money, then again, asked for more money or what I think is a rip off, Monster Hunter Iceborne asking for over $150 for shipping?
AW is one of the best CF companies BUT...ISS Vanguard is now 3 years in the making. ENG Wave 2 is not out and Wave 1 LANG isnt too. That's just not exactable.
I will never ever back a kickstarter exclusive game again. There were about 3 games I was waiting for but just before those games showed up my dad went into the hospital and for 6 months we didn’t have any clue if he was going to make it and then he passed away, during that time I never once thought about those games and completely forgot gaming in general. Now one and a half year later I’m finally back in the hobby and I saw those games I always wanted are locked behind a kickstarter meaning I can no longer back them and the late pledge closed. So I decided to contact those companies and explained to them that I wanted to back their games originally and how things went with my dad, I thought just maybe I could get something if I asked, I even offered to pay more but GOD forbid you miss a late pledge by a week or two! I even asked if there might be a second print run but how dare me not backing on time? One company even made it my fault for forgetting about their game when my dad was in the hospital fighting for his life. And the best part is I got excuses like “sorry we have to lock in how many copies to print” BS and in those same projects backers can still add extra copies but those like me can’t get one copy it makes zero sense when every backer and their mother can add extra copies to their pledges but those of us who missed out because of an out of control emergency can’t get one copy. One person from Awaken Realms helped me get scammed, he suggested I make a deal with an existing backer to get me a copy, I took that advice only for that backer to disappear after I paid for the copy. Now I will only back small indie teams only and ONLY if their game will go to retail later. Dealing with big companies on kickstarter I don’t feel like I’m dealing with normal humans who enjoy playing games as they claim but it feels like I’m dealing with soulless machines who only care about their customers for the first month of the project life. If you come late then you are getting punished for not buying the game on time.
Your comment really resonated with me. Frankly, I don't understand why a big company would even need Kickstarter. Isn't crowdfunding supposed to be for smaller and up and coming indie developers and studios?
@@williamspears1627 Its been used as a store. Honestly as much as I love getting new games, the moment I hear kickstarter or gamefound I move on. The only designer I do back is Tristan Hall, always delivers and amazing games and if I miss his project I can always get a retail copy in the future.
I don’t think you mean it, but by harping on awaken Realms, as an established company that has made deliveries that you could rely on, you were implying that brand new Indies can’t run a decent campaign.-Toby
Ah yeah not meant at all. I mean you have to really show that you are serious and have it all together. You have to build confidence. I do think long gone are the days where an indie effort like Limbo's first campaign can really see much success. It reminds me of the old UA-cam vs the New. The old one people were fine with a bit of cringe and roughness but these days people expect pretty much all videos to have a certain level of quality and professionalism in it's production. Same with campaigns right now I think.
Nemesis was my first experience in crowd funding and its been the most positive to date. Amazing game and going all in on Lockdown and Retaliation wasn't a question for me. AR have done really well and I completely trust I'll get my game without any stupidly high shipping cost or extra contributions. I now prefer Gamefound over Kickstarter aswell. Kickstarters become more of a gamble.
No one talks about backers tendency to back up things that look good but don't show off any substance or things that have a big name or studio behind them. In that sense crowdfunding is dead for most indie creators and studios.
Bit disappointed with video. The title was misleading. Turned into a nemesis love fest rather than an in depth article on campaigns and funding. Should have been called 'Why nemesis makes lots of revenue and others don't '
Hmm sorry I didn't mean it that why. While I use the nemesis campaign as my example, I don't even show the page for almost half of the video and in fact the total time showing the campaign page vs talking big points is about a third of the entire video :) I thought about expanding on this to show negative examples (the other side of the title) vs just speaking on them in general, but I opted not to because I didn't want the video to become to negative as I am pretty optimistic on the prospects right now. I can see how some might be expecting something else though and appreciate the feedback - I hope you still enjoyed it!
Ah! Just so you have some added info on this, because obviously you guys don't see what *doesn't* make the cut or what my reasoning was behind things. The thumbnail originally was going to show the Nemesis box with the arrow pointing and the text. That was my first thought and what I had planned going into this video. However I wasn't satisfied with that thumbnail for two big reasons: 1 is it is super close to my recent thumbnail of same red text and the box and the big one is 2: I feel that putting negative adjacent text (not dead) and pointing to the game could leave a negative connection I did not intent to give viewers on the game/campaign. I really try to only point to a game someone made with words like "dead" extremely carefully. So instead I opted to put the crowdfunding logos. I imagine this actually hurt viewership as well. But I'd rather have a more responsible and accurate thumbnail than allude people into thinking they're going to see a negative video on a game (or simply be curious why I'd point there anyway. So I suppose just know that even if we disagree or aren't on quite the same page, I do put a fair bit of thought behind this sort of stuff these days :)
Backers are definitely being more selective now and people are walking away from FOMO. It's going to be an exciting time to see what comes next, I hope it keeps progressing.
I’m super impressed with the way the Sleeping gods distant skies one played out. What a tight well planned productions.
I think the Nemesis brand and AR's history is what really drove the Retaliation campaign. If this was any indi publisher, the numbers wouldn't be great. I think trust is a premium in the industry right now, and AR has earned that goodwill
Absolutely. All it takes is one bad experience for a backer to be a lot more selective of the companies they support through crowdfunding. To go along with that, I have decided to support campaigns as little as possible through Kickstarter and support them in the PM instead so Kickstarter the company gets as little of my money as possible.
The part you’re missing is that by design, we won’t know whether a campaign was “bad” until after the product is delivered. If you’re only gauging by how much money was raised, you’re overlooking the most relevant criterion for whether the campaign was bad. Seen it too many times where the game either doesn’t deliver, or it’s not playable so they have to make an “upgrade pack” for another $100
Awaken realms is killing it. I'm super excited for dragon eclipse. Maybe one day we get etherfields 2. Probably my favorite board game.
Yea I’ve stepped back from kickstarters just from the uptick of odd and shady things that seem to be popping up more. I’d love to see some protection and accountability
I agree there should be some protections or something. CF has always been risky, mainly because that was the place you used to go when you couldn't get started "traditionally" but sometimes endeavors tap out. How do we separate the true "Hey, this is a longshot dream project I need help with" from "Hey, back this one so we can fulfill the one 2 campaigns ago."
At least KS allows us to view their history, but it needs an option or perhaps a sticker to see if the campaign was not only funded but distributed to everyone.
Charging slightly more for previous pledge runs is still cheaper than the scalpers. Previous medic on ebay is as high as $139.99, sundropped $150.00. Here is only $10.00.
It is indeed!
good video and some good tips. I think it being an Awaken Realms game really helped as well. They are a well known company in the board game industry that does do a lot more than most, like an interactive Q&A every week or every other week. They are responsive to questions and communication. They give backers a piece of mind that if they back it they will get it in a time where that isn't really certain. I really love the approach they started with no monetary stretch goals as it allows them to set the scope from day 1 and then we aren't 3 years later still waiting on the game. they've gotten a lot better and I think they learned well from some of the earlier mistakes. The faith is there and they are one company people will flock to when others are failing.
One campaign is not the industry. This is an aberration, not the trend.
People have stacks of games yet to be played that are still being delivered. We do not trust that even established names will continue to deliver games - and if they do that the quality will be up to par. CMON with Eric Lang is not CMON after he left. CMON is still pulling in money - but people are just now getting to really understand the downturn in quality in the games.
There will be aberrations, but the value proposition just isn't there anymore. Even if you can afford to buy them, can you afford the time to play them ... and if you can't - how long before you stop buying games you won't get to play?
Oversaturated markets, decreasing quality, increasing costs, increased scams ... the drivers of the trends are pushing down dramatically.
Additionally - a lot of the things you praise encourage people to spend more than they can afford and disguise the impact. That eventually comes home to roost and people then have to make big cuts in their spending behavior. These "pay over time" and "let's just slip a little more in the pledge manager" techniques will do damage to the industry as well.
Oh certainly not a trend! Didn't mean to imply that either because totally agreed.
But it does show the possibility is still there for companies. I think before this the general idea is that no matter what, your campaign will fund less. There are less people willing to spend less. And while I feel that's generally true, there's certainly lots of success still available to devs as well. It's actually happened a few times this year and I'd like to end this year on a positive note like that if I can :)
Stretch Pay played a huge roll in raising so much money for Nemesis Retaliation.
I really want a sci-fi dungeon crawler, but I'm not sold on Retaliation. I wanted to get everything for Nemesis OG, but realized something though.
I love Nemesis OG, but no one I know likes it. Not my regular group and not the new players that gave it a go (both first time and returning for a second try). Have the same problem with Kingdom Death Monster, lol. So Nemesis OG will be sold as soon as I paint the aliens.
What's the point of scheduling the campaign for 2 weeks versus longer when stretch goals are based on the calendar days not amount sold? Also when the late pledge page opens immediately after the campaign ends. This campaign is more of a preorder rather than a crowd funded game.
It's one of the beloved games on BGG. I never got further than looking at pictures which appear too abstract for me.
Really well ran campaign. I have both versions of Nemesis and still considered getting just the standee version.
For me its more about people focus on the negative more so the positive. Crowd funding was never dead and their are plenty of great campaigns in 2023. People just tend to experience some problems and then look at everything as being a problem. How many people had problems with Mythic, and now think Ludus Magnus Studios, Lazy Squire, or Succubus publishing are in the same boat. I even saw a comment under Nemesis saying that Awakened Realms would never deliver it because their like Mythic. People take that one or several negatives and encompass all of Crowdfunding in it. However the truth is that their are more successful campaigns then their were failures, that its not even 1% crowdfunding that failed.
Another reason for their success is: They offer their games in many language versions. In this case 6 languages. So many publisher just go the easy way with English only oder maybe French. That's it. My opinion is, to be successful in the future you have to offer more then this 2 basic languages. At least the rules have to come in multiple languages. This can't be to difficult.
Some publishers have to learn through pain.
Is Primal the Awakening a SAFE back? Will really appreciate your opinion on this as you worked with them before for the miniatures. :)
If Zombicide White Death did this and added Black Plague and Green Horde... I also wish I could back Nemesis. I want it. But I recently just backed Final Girl with an ultimate pledge as I don't own any of it and wanted all of it. I want all of Nemesis... sad face.
Must.... stay ...strong. My plan for next year is mostly to expand games I already have, like Conan and A Song Of Ice And Fire and not buying even more completly new games. Okay besides God of War 😅
This and Dwarvenforge Cities are the only 2 campaigns I backed this year.....I've been very selective on which campaigns to back.
I love that quote. Kickstarter is to monitize the audience. Yes! Street Fighter the Miniatures Game was only possible because Angry Joe' and Street Fighter's audience funded the game. Those minis are amazing!
EXACTLY!
The texture helps boost the Sundrop effect
I apologize if I didn't clarify well, there is plenty of nice texture on the final minis, but what you're seeing in those renders is a fake, won't ever even be attempted to reproduce texture over the whole thing. It's added to make the render look nicer only.
A first player marker? A PLATYPUS first player marker? PERRY THE PLATYPUS FIRST PLAYER MARKER!
I'm currently working on designing a campaign for a boardgame, but I'm preparing for you to roast it in full 😅
LOL I'm sure you'll do great!
To me, it seems like CF is just a "nu-store" where established and industry people have opened up, in multiple fields. Backers have seemed to shift, probably due to the "bad campaigns" where they only want to back established people because the risk for a newcomer is too high. Which, after the last few years with campaigns to fuel campaigns is a reasonable response.
As someone who wants to do a CF to afford artists for a Print on demand style game, and miniatures, it just seems a little hostile/risky area now. Which is a shame because that was what KS started, for those of us who cannot get started traditionally.
Personally I much prefer game found as a place to find and back games, I only use Kickstarter and Backer when I am forced too.
I do really like The Nemsis series and just hope Retaliation lives up to the other two (more so Nemesis for me). I really like Awaken realms games, ISS Vanguard is probably my biggest disappointment though with their games.
Does bad campaign counts in all those that have a shipping price and then asked for more money, then again, asked for more money or what I think is a rip off, Monster Hunter Iceborne asking for over $150 for shipping?
Great video!
Necremancers.... I'm thinking.... it won't be fulfilled :(
AW is one of the best CF companies BUT...ISS Vanguard is now 3 years in the making. ENG Wave 2 is not out and Wave 1 LANG isnt too. That's just not exactable.
I will never ever back a kickstarter exclusive game again. There were about 3 games I was waiting for but just before those games showed up my dad went into the hospital and for 6 months we didn’t have any clue if he was going to make it and then he passed away, during that time I never once thought about those games and completely forgot gaming in general.
Now one and a half year later I’m finally back in the hobby and I saw those games I always wanted are locked behind a kickstarter meaning I can no longer back them and the late pledge closed. So I decided to contact those companies and explained to them that I wanted to back their games originally and how things went with my dad, I thought just maybe I could get something if I asked, I even offered to pay more but GOD forbid you miss a late pledge by a week or two! I even asked if there might be a second print run but how dare me not backing on time? One company even made it my fault for forgetting about their game when my dad was in the hospital fighting for his life.
And the best part is I got excuses like “sorry we have to lock in how many copies to print” BS and in those same projects backers can still add extra copies but those like me can’t get one copy it makes zero sense when every backer and their mother can add extra copies to their pledges but those of us who missed out because of an out of control emergency can’t get one copy.
One person from Awaken Realms helped me get scammed, he suggested I make a deal with an existing backer to get me a copy, I took that advice only for that backer to disappear after I paid for the copy.
Now I will only back small indie teams only and ONLY if their game will go to retail later.
Dealing with big companies on kickstarter I don’t feel like I’m dealing with normal humans who enjoy playing games as they claim but it feels like I’m dealing with soulless machines who only care about their customers for the first month of the project life. If you come late then you are getting punished for not buying the game on time.
Your comment really resonated with me. Frankly, I don't understand why a big company would even need Kickstarter. Isn't crowdfunding supposed to be for smaller and up and coming indie developers and studios?
@@williamspears1627 Its been used as a store. Honestly as much as I love getting new games, the moment I hear kickstarter or gamefound I move on. The only designer I do back is Tristan Hall, always delivers and amazing games and if I miss his project I can always get a retail copy in the future.
100% agree with the title of this video.
I don’t think you mean it, but by harping on awaken Realms, as an established company that has made deliveries that you could rely on, you were implying that brand new Indies can’t run a decent campaign.-Toby
Ah yeah not meant at all. I mean you have to really show that you are serious and have it all together. You have to build confidence.
I do think long gone are the days where an indie effort like Limbo's first campaign can really see much success. It reminds me of the old UA-cam vs the New. The old one people were fine with a bit of cringe and roughness but these days people expect pretty much all videos to have a certain level of quality and professionalism in it's production.
Same with campaigns right now I think.
Yup I've stopped backing big stuff
Nemesis was my first experience in crowd funding and its been the most positive to date. Amazing game and going all in on Lockdown and Retaliation wasn't a question for me. AR have done really well and I completely trust I'll get my game without any stupidly high shipping cost or extra contributions. I now prefer Gamefound over Kickstarter aswell. Kickstarters become more of a gamble.
I backed this game in the past and constantly sold it. (Ok I made profit) but I’m not backing this time. It’s just not for my group.
I think it's important to realize that! Good call.
ar did a lot of reprinting and like a million add ons. hope their profit margin is good. they are a good company
For once in my life I can have the honor of a first comment, will love to see the video :3
Congrats! :D
Market is tough. Backers are selective. Nemesis is one of the best games. Awaken Realms have excellent reputation and proven record.
and it paid off!
No one talks about backers tendency to back up things that look good but don't show off any substance or things that have a big name or studio behind them. In that sense crowdfunding is dead for most indie creators and studios.
Bit disappointed with video. The title was misleading. Turned into a nemesis love fest rather than an in depth article on campaigns and funding. Should have been called 'Why nemesis makes lots of revenue and others don't '
Hmm sorry I didn't mean it that why. While I use the nemesis campaign as my example, I don't even show the page for almost half of the video and in fact the total time showing the campaign page vs talking big points is about a third of the entire video :)
I thought about expanding on this to show negative examples (the other side of the title) vs just speaking on them in general, but I opted not to because I didn't want the video to become to negative as I am pretty optimistic on the prospects right now.
I can see how some might be expecting something else though and appreciate the feedback - I hope you still enjoyed it!
Ah! Just so you have some added info on this, because obviously you guys don't see what *doesn't* make the cut or what my reasoning was behind things.
The thumbnail originally was going to show the Nemesis box with the arrow pointing and the text. That was my first thought and what I had planned going into this video. However I wasn't satisfied with that thumbnail for two big reasons: 1 is it is super close to my recent thumbnail of same red text and the box and the big one is 2: I feel that putting negative adjacent text (not dead) and pointing to the game could leave a negative connection I did not intent to give viewers on the game/campaign.
I really try to only point to a game someone made with words like "dead" extremely carefully. So instead I opted to put the crowdfunding logos. I imagine this actually hurt viewership as well. But I'd rather have a more responsible and accurate thumbnail than allude people into thinking they're going to see a negative video on a game (or simply be curious why I'd point there anyway.
So I suppose just know that even if we disagree or aren't on quite the same page, I do put a fair bit of thought behind this sort of stuff these days :)
Zombicide