Just wanted to clarify: when I was trying to demo the 30s ttl, I should not have hit refresh just before (which might’ve already cleared the cache). I meant to show that clicking quickly shows cached data, but after 30 seconds it gets you a new one. Sorry I totally messed up 😂 but I hope it makes sense!
Thanks Marius for clearing this up. Btw, I learn't these 30 seconds the hard way, just clicking back and forth with tag, and seeing that suddenly it starts behaving dynamically after some time. It started to fetch data on server side on each navigation. I just dont understand why it's not working like that right from the beginning, why exactly we need to wait those 30 seconds...
yup, I ran into this a while back and it's very annoying. The only fix I found it to add a client component on the page you know should be fresh data each time, and put a router.refresh() inside a useEffect on mount.
Jesus dude. This is exactly what I was looking for. I legit tried all 5 strategies for blowing away the cache (no-store, force-dynamic, force-no-store, revalidate=0, React unstable cache), and to find that I was affecting only the server-side cache was mind-boggling. But this makes total sense. Short story: use to kill it entirely.
Yeah I’ve actually been learning a lot about it in my own projects, I can definitely cover that in more detail. Have you seen the new docs for it? It didn’t exist at the time of this video
@@mariusespejo I have, it's not very beginner friendly. I kinda understand it but it gets quite complicated. Maybe it's one of those things that you will have to play with a lot and try out all different scenarios to fully grasp.
“Data cache” (server) I’m pretty does work in development because when I call fetch server-side the terminal logs tell me if they are cache HIT or MISS. If you look in the .next folder you also will see cached data in there. Although I have seen people saying cache doesn’t work in dev mode and what’s tricky is there are multiple caches right, and idk what people are talking about exactly. The docs does say however that link prefetching only works in production, and prefetching affects the “Route Cache” (client) behavior.
To fix it just create a client component returning null, with router.refresh() inside a useeffect with empty dependency array, and add it in a server component, boom 💥 it will work
just an hour ago actually they posted a response/discussion on the github issue, where they fully explain why this 30s thing exists. It’s probably the best explanation we’ll get. I might cover it in a follow up video if I get some time
Thank you for this video! I went immediately to Nextjs docs and red the latest instructions - now they are mentioning it. And they say there is no way to opt out of the default 30 seconds server component payload cache (cliend-side/router-cache). That terible. So there is no way we can use server components for data fetching if you always need latest data from backend… So useless.. Gues for latest data from backend we still need to stack to client side components…
I've only been learning next for just a week now, but this caching behavior makes sense to me because were doing SSR by default. Would have been interesting to see what would happen if you made it a client component.
There is also another problem: caching behaves different on localhost dev environment and production. If you solve the problem locally, still you can see cache related bugs on your prod environment.
There is still no solution about this in docs or videos . thanks to this video now I know It is not possible to invalidate the client side router cache ☺
I feel like exactly this problem is currently ruining my mental model of authentication with nextjs. I integrated supabase, into my nextjs middleware to check if the user has a valid session before routing to protected sites and sending the user to login if not. This works great, until the user clicks 'logout' on a protected page - at which point the protected page was loaded into the client cache and after that the user is still able to access the protected page, because the nextjs link and rounter will do a soft routing and my server middleware never get's another call if the user is allowed to go to the protected page and cannot redirect. Tried 'force-dynamic' on the server and also tried to manually set the header 'Cache-Control: no-store' to try to convince the browser to send another request to my middleware. Any suggestions for this kind of problem?
They actually released new docs about the caching shortly after this video. The client-side cache that I talk about in the video is officially called “Router Cache” You can’t opt out of it unfortunately but they do give some options to invalidate. In your case you either need to router.refresh() on sign-out or you can use a server action to either use revalidateTag/revalidatePath (e.g. if you tagged your protected fetch calls), Or if you use cookies for auth, run cookies.delete() in a server action Either of those should do the trick but you’ll have to test out which one works best. If you’re trying to invalidate the server-side Data Cache in addition to the client Router Cache I think you have to use the revalidateTag/Path. Hope that helps nextjs.org/docs/app/building-your-application/caching#invalidation-1
Yeah I now realized I made that demo more confusing lol. The point was to show that prior to waiting you see cached, after 30 seconds the number is updated. I shouldn’t have refresh, good catch!
I knew about the issue, but I haven't had any problematic situation because of it so far on the little projects I'm playing with. Thanks man for this huntdogs investigation work, and clarification. Great job on explaining. I really had no clue about that "Meta-caching" (Server & Client) that was going on under the hood. I don't see any easy fix to this though...😢 Is there an alternative to the Link component that could help?
So to be fair I think 30s is small enough that it probably isn’t that big of a problem for most use cases. I think you can also use the native anchor tag instead of Link which would always go back to the server. Also you could manually call router.refresh() on mount … but yeah all the options are a little hacky. If the 30s (or 5min on prefetch true) doesn’t affect you then I’d just leave it. The problem is mostly for cases where you absolutely cannot get away with showing stale data
Hello, I have a simple application in nextjs and mongoDB, when I'm in development it does the crud fine, but when I deploy in vercel, it's like the front doesn't refresh the data, but it does manipulate the data, I don't understand why this behavior , even so, reloading the page does not work, it is as if at the time of doing the build it saved the data from this moment and only displayed that.
The caching behavior for server-side only happens in prod I think, not in local. Depending on your use case you might need to set revalidate to how often you want it to, or use force-dynamic
Thanks for covering this in details, does this happen to layouts as well? I have a layout handling user authentication with cookies and redirecting if the user is signed in but I get into a redirect loop after signing out as it's cached on the client. Any ideas how to fix the problem?
@@mariusespejo Thanks, makes sense, I can do a router refresh on sign out but if my session expires I’m stuck with a stale state. Looks like I’m mis-using layout and need to wrap logic in pages, correct?
Well in my mind you have to go to the server in some way, e.g. via a request to see if the session is still valid, and the request(s) should probably respond with maybe status 401/403. The client should then be setup to react to any request failing with that status and perhaps route to login screen and refresh
Not really (last I checked), there is a massive open discussion about this if you want to know where’s it at: github.com/vercel/next.js/discussions/54075 But it really is a massive thread, but basically you still can’t configure this or opt out
Great video and great explanation. I guess they do aggressive caching because of the lamda's cold starts/slow execution which makes the app slow otherwise. In my opinion caching (on every level) should always be opt-in. Something with "pre-optimisation is root of all evil"
experienced this issue myself. this clarifies so much! what's the best way right now to work around it? right before navigating to another page using router.push(), i added a router.refresh() but this doesn't seem to work.
You can use router.refresh() on mount of the page you’re navigating to, like in a useEffect for example. Or you can use old school html tags to force it to go back to the server Basically all of the solutions are hacky, hopefully they’ll provide a way to opt out. Currently the newest docs literally say you can’t opt out and people are mad haha
Right, it’s for client, which is where the router client cache is that we’re trying to invalidate. Btw next team did make a proposal for a fix that will let you configure the staletime but it might take them a while to implement
They did just recently comment on the github issue that they are looking at all the feedback and will address it somehow. Hopefully a better resolution in the future
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Just wanted to clarify: when I was trying to demo the 30s ttl, I should not have hit refresh just before (which might’ve already cleared the cache). I meant to show that clicking quickly shows cached data, but after 30 seconds it gets you a new one. Sorry I totally messed up 😂 but I hope it makes sense!
Thanks Marius for clearing this up. Btw, I learn't these 30 seconds the hard way, just clicking back and forth with tag, and seeing that suddenly it starts behaving dynamically after some time. It started to fetch data on server side on each navigation. I just dont understand why it's not working like that right from the beginning, why exactly we need to wait those 30 seconds...
yup, I ran into this a while back and it's very annoying. The only fix I found it to add a client component on the page you know should be fresh data each time, and put a router.refresh() inside a useEffect on mount.
Dude ! I am pulling my hair for the last 5 hours and your comment did the trick finally ! Thank you !
Jesus dude. This is exactly what I was looking for. I legit tried all 5 strategies for blowing away the cache (no-store, force-dynamic, force-no-store, revalidate=0, React unstable cache), and to find that I was affecting only the server-side cache was mind-boggling. But this makes total sense. Short story: use to kill it entirely.
Hello Marius, your videos are great and of huge benefit. I started learning nest js by watching your videos. Keep going ❤️❤️
Great video! :). BTW what is the flow diagram UI tools you're using @ 4:00?
Thank you! Using excalidraw there
Appreciate the explanation. Any chance you could do a video on deep dive on Next js caching and revalidation including, data cache, route cache, etc?
Yeah I’ve actually been learning a lot about it in my own projects, I can definitely cover that in more detail. Have you seen the new docs for it? It didn’t exist at the time of this video
@@mariusespejo I have, it's not very beginner friendly. I kinda understand it but it gets quite complicated. Maybe it's one of those things that you will have to play with a lot and try out all different scenarios to fully grasp.
Yeah I agree, I’ve had to read it multiple times to be honest and parts of it is still confusing haha
@@mariusespejo yeah, quick question though do you know if server cache actually works in dev mode, or is it production only?
“Data cache” (server) I’m pretty does work in development because when I call fetch server-side the terminal logs tell me if they are cache HIT or MISS. If you look in the .next folder you also will see cached data in there. Although I have seen people saying cache doesn’t work in dev mode and what’s tricky is there are multiple caches right, and idk what people are talking about exactly. The docs does say however that link prefetching only works in production, and prefetching affects the “Route Cache” (client) behavior.
To fix it just create a client component returning null, with router.refresh() inside a useeffect with empty dependency array, and add it in a server component, boom 💥 it will work
Right, however It’s more of a hack than a fix. Nextjs needs to create a way to opt-out
Oh my gosh, thanks for this. Hopefully the docs get updated soon.
just an hour ago actually they posted a response/discussion on the github issue, where they fully explain why this 30s thing exists. It’s probably the best explanation we’ll get. I might cover it in a follow up video if I get some time
Thanks so much for making a video trying to clarify this. Very important stuff. 🙏🏻
Very insightful. I'm actually scratching my head all day long wth is going on 😂😂. As always, Thanks Marius. Keep going brother.
Thank you for this video! I went immediately to Nextjs docs and red the latest instructions - now they are mentioning it. And they say there is no way to opt out of the default 30 seconds server component payload cache (cliend-side/router-cache). That terible. So there is no way we can use server components for data fetching if you always need latest data from backend… So useless.. Gues for latest data from backend we still need to stack to client side components…
I've only been learning next for just a week now, but this caching behavior makes sense to me because were doing SSR by default. Would have been interesting to see what would happen if you made it a client component.
Thank you so much for this explanation bro
There is also another problem: caching behaves different on localhost dev environment and production. If you solve the problem locally, still you can see cache related bugs on your prod environment.
So im not the only one that is having trouble understanding this
There is still no solution about this in docs or videos . thanks to this video now I know It is not possible to invalidate the client side router cache ☺
I feel like exactly this problem is currently ruining my mental model of authentication with nextjs. I integrated supabase, into my nextjs middleware to check if the user has a valid session before routing to protected sites and sending the user to login if not. This works great, until the user clicks 'logout' on a protected page - at which point the protected page was loaded into the client cache and after that the user is still able to access the protected page, because the nextjs link and rounter will do a soft routing and my server middleware never get's another call if the user is allowed to go to the protected page and cannot redirect.
Tried 'force-dynamic' on the server and also tried to manually set the header 'Cache-Control: no-store' to try to convince the browser to send another request to my middleware. Any suggestions for this kind of problem?
They actually released new docs about the caching shortly after this video. The client-side cache that I talk about in the video is officially called “Router Cache”
You can’t opt out of it unfortunately but they do give some options to invalidate. In your case you either need to router.refresh() on sign-out or you can use a server action to either use revalidateTag/revalidatePath (e.g. if you tagged your protected fetch calls), Or if you use cookies for auth, run cookies.delete() in a server action
Either of those should do the trick but you’ll have to test out which one works best. If you’re trying to invalidate the server-side Data Cache in addition to the client Router Cache I think you have to use the revalidateTag/Path. Hope that helps
nextjs.org/docs/app/building-your-application/caching#invalidation-1
10:37, by right you hit refresh should get the new random value already no need wait 30s
thats what i was tinking but maybe i miss something
Yeah I now realized I made that demo more confusing lol. The point was to show that prior to waiting you see cached, after 30 seconds the number is updated. I shouldn’t have refresh, good catch!
Which next js version are you using?
Not sure what I was using here, but the github ticket for this is still open so it’s still relevant in the most recent version today
I knew about the issue, but I haven't had any problematic situation because of it so far on the little projects I'm playing with.
Thanks man for this huntdogs investigation work, and clarification. Great job on explaining. I really had no clue about that "Meta-caching" (Server & Client) that was going on under the hood.
I don't see any easy fix to this though...😢
Is there an alternative to the Link component that could help?
So to be fair I think 30s is small enough that it probably isn’t that big of a problem for most use cases. I think you can also use the native anchor tag instead of Link which would always go back to the server. Also you could manually call router.refresh() on mount … but yeah all the options are a little hacky. If the 30s (or 5min on prefetch true) doesn’t affect you then I’d just leave it. The problem is mostly for cases where you absolutely cannot get away with showing stale data
Hello, I have a simple application in nextjs and mongoDB, when I'm in development it does the crud fine, but when I deploy in vercel, it's like the front doesn't refresh the data, but it does manipulate the data, I don't understand why this behavior , even so, reloading the page does not work, it is as if at the time of doing the build it saved the data from this moment and only displayed that.
The caching behavior for server-side only happens in prod I think, not in local. Depending on your use case you might need to set revalidate to how often you want it to, or use force-dynamic
@@mariusespejo thanks
Thanks for covering this in details, does this happen to layouts as well? I have a layout handling user authentication with cookies and redirecting if the user is signed in but I get into a redirect loop after signing out as it's cached on the client. Any ideas how to fix the problem?
Layouts do not re-render on navigation, that’s by design and is documented. You might need to force a router.refresh() in that case
@@mariusespejo Thanks, makes sense, I can do a router refresh on sign out but if my session expires I’m stuck with a stale state. Looks like I’m mis-using layout and need to wrap logic in pages, correct?
Well in my mind you have to go to the server in some way, e.g. via a request to see if the session is still valid, and the request(s) should probably respond with maybe status 401/403. The client should then be setup to react to any request failing with that status and perhaps route to login screen and refresh
How about in page router? All I see is app router revalidating route but I need also it in page router
This caching behavior is for app router only
Hey buddy, as of today is there any fix from nextjs team on this issue or do we still have to use work arounds?
Anyway, great video!
Not really (last I checked), there is a massive open discussion about this if you want to know where’s it at: github.com/vercel/next.js/discussions/54075
But it really is a massive thread, but basically you still can’t configure this or opt out
@@mariusespejo thank you
Great video and great explanation. I guess they do aggressive caching because of the lamda's cold starts/slow execution which makes the app slow otherwise. In my opinion caching (on every level) should always be opt-in. Something with "pre-optimisation is root of all evil"
experienced this issue myself. this clarifies so much! what's the best way right now to work around it? right before navigating to another page using router.push(), i added a router.refresh() but this doesn't seem to work.
You can use router.refresh() on mount of the page you’re navigating to, like in a useEffect for example. Or you can use old school html tags to force it to go back to the server
Basically all of the solutions are hacky, hopefully they’ll provide a way to opt out. Currently the newest docs literally say you can’t opt out and people are mad haha
@@mariusespejo cant do router.refresh() in a server compontent tho right?
Right, it’s for client, which is where the router client cache is that we’re trying to invalidate. Btw next team did make a proposal for a fix that will let you configure the staletime but it might take them a while to implement
thank you for this video
honestly cache revalidation is one of the hardest thing in computer science.
Yup but it’s even worst when you can’t opt out of it, or even control when it revalidates
just use
You can but you also lose the optimizations that the Link component provides
Thank you for the explaination but, no solution :(
is it fixed on nextjs 14?
Nope. You still can’t opt-out as of today. But there is an open ticket for it with a proposal from the team
@@mariusespejo thanks for answer.
😢😢 is the only option i guess
why hit refresh lol
I just realized what you meant 😂 yeah I totally messed that up haha
super confusing
many bad decisions are done in next js 13 ,
Give it time, community will iron it out
it's almost a year now since the conference
Tthis is the worst thing i have ever seen Vercel do
They did just recently comment on the github issue that they are looking at all the feedback and will address it somehow. Hopefully a better resolution in the future