Got the TSO GRS-16 square about 2 yrs ago. It was a game changer & I sold my MFT table. Obviously a far more portable way to square cut material on jobsites. TSO products are great.
I can tell, in the first half a second, what was **not** in that box you dropped on your work bench; it was not a set of 20" long Baccarat Crystal candle holders you may have gifted Chris for an anniversary present. I've had many laughs in the creativity of the opening of your video! Keep up the fun and great work!
When cutting sheet goods larger than 48" like rip cuts for making kitchen counters it's a challenge getting edges square with an adjacent corner. Definitely want to invest in TSO and Festool. I have a Bora Centipede 4x8 that can be taken down when finished.
A table saw cannot do what a track saw can do. A track saw replaces or works like a sliding table saw which is at least 10' long for ripping sheet goods. Those are big saws, take a lot of room and can't go to the job site. A work bench is necessary regardless of using a track saw or not so the track saw is the most compact and portable way to get rips done.
Hi. Thanks for the informative video. I recently purchased (on OfferUp) the Makita Track Saw system. My question: I'm looking into the TSO parallel guide system. They offer a 20" inch rail, a 30" rail, and a combo set of 30"/50" rail ($100 more than the 30" set). In my spare time, I enjoy building small furniture for family and friends (book cases, shelves, tables, etc. in my side-of-the-garage shop. In your opinion, which rail size would you recommend? Thanks again!
If I could only have one rail I would go with 30" and workout something else for wider rips as 30 covers 90% of what I do. If you think you will do more wider rips then go with 50" as it will rip everything the 30" will. Of course it is a little clunky using the big rail for narrow stuff.
Would it be possible to show the thin rip option in action. Even though you have a table saw not everybody does. it's capability in this area may be the convincing factor.
20mm. They are industry standard worldwide. My first bench was 3/4" 4" on center and it was an uphill battle that caused problems. 20mm and 32mm spacing have been the industry standard in the cabinet world since WWII. The only regret I have is spending 30 years holding tight to Imperial. The metric system is so much easier than working with fractions. Add 1/8" + 3/16" + 1/64" or 3mm + 5mm + .5mm. I can do both, base 10 whole numbers wins for me. 😎🤙
Hi there, I am looking at these as an alternative to the 20mm mft table like you have there to make perfect 90 degree cuts (at least temp for now and may go for the mft table later on for other work) . Anyway the stops ...if you have one on the left and another on the right lets say at 30 inches each - how do we get them both dead on (each) at 30 inches..is there a chance one might be over or under a fraction compared to the other? does it notch in place for example?
The only reason a person needs parallel guides is if they are ripping several sheets of God knows what. I bought and returned the Woodpeckers parallel Guide set as I despise wasteful tool set up time. Then I bought the Festool Metric parallel guides put them together and never took them apart, As long as you use the same saw with the same model saw blade it's fairly easy to use. Pay attention to the set up videos offered all over you tube. I like the Festool Parallel guides but Paralax can be an issue with them, but they are a little heavy and I am kind of old and do not consider them the most portable. Seriously watch out for Parallax with these puppies. So for a more portable set I bought the Seneca rail guides without the Incra Track as I have more Incra Track than I like to admit. The lock down of the Seneca to the Track was good but the incra track does not fit well and is less than desirable as it will not stay square without high precision shims. However, I did like their narrow stock guides. Also the Incra scales do tend to move so I used some hot glue to help them stay put. No, not the best solution. Now I've gone and purchased the 30 inch option from TSO. I can report I bought the best one last. I never expect anything to be "Spot On", "Dead Nuts Square' when speaking about wood. There is close, very close, and really - really close. Wood is a living breathing material and it all moves. even very expensive plywood can and will move unless properly finished. So understand NOTHING will ever be and stay perfect. Go ahead argue all you want but you'll be on the losing side. So what are some other problems? Set-up Methods, operator deviation, and Blade Deflection. Forget thin Kerf blades unless you like Blade Deflection, cupped guide rail splinter guards and all manner of issues. Every Material has an optimum Speed and Feed Rate and so do blades, end mills and router bits. "Like a Knife through Hot butter is not a mathematical term and can not be measured. Most people cut too fast, either too fast of a blade speed or pushing to hard and fast through the material. Festool and Makita rails are not compatible the blade offsets on the saw are not the same measuring from the guide rib to the inside of the blade. I know as I have both type rails and both type saws. Also note that both manufacturers toe-in the front of the blade inward and not by the same amount. That thin assed blade on the Makita tracksaws is a POS - throw it away, buy their real ripping blade and enjoy your hobby. The Kerf is too thin and the Blade Plate thickness is even thinner. It will deflect with a heavy breath. As for the parallel guides I own the TSO is the best. But poor setup kills them all and makes them all useless. Watch the TSO set up guide (more than once) learn to make and use MDF gage blocks to help with consistency side to side. The TSO is not only CNC cut but also CMM measured to a perfect computer model. Did I mention the etched scales on the TSO rails are in both Imperial and Metric and their stops are unmatched, better than everyone elses. The metric scale has a little mark every 32 mm as a bonus so you can make a balanced 32mm panel with their rails and this is why I bought the 30 inch rail set first. 768mm make a nice 32mm balanced panel for upper wall cabinets using Festools LR32 cabinet system. Almost US standard, but not exactly 30.25 inches. I try never to convert metric and Imperial or the other way around. Conversion is our enemy Use one, both but what ever the system stay with is until the projects end. 3/4 inch is not and can never be 18mm. FestooUSAl pisses me off as they sell metric accessories for metric power tools but substitute the proper metric scale with a damn Inch Scale. This sounds stupid because it is. Why 32 mm? Well 1.25 inch is 31.75mm, remember the USA rebuild Europe after WW2 and they improvised 16, 32, 48, 64, 96mm sounds like an MFT table being born. We are all here so we can learn and grow. Nothing we make is perfect. Most need to forget about perfect, Get over themselves and learn to measure. How we deal with imperfection as a teacher is all important. Learn to plan, a drawing (crude as it may be) figure out what can go wrong and have a plan to deal with it. I waste a lot of wood, every piece is initially cut larger than I really need, but hey I have a wood burning shop stove. Winter is coming. Your drawings will improve, and do not forget to mark your reference edge and face on every piece. Variation in panels is almost always operator error or deviation from a well thought out plan. Again, THIN kerf blades suck the air out of your projects and your confidence. Sorry for the rant. Certified Jet Engine Machinist (Suck Squeeze, Bang Blow) turned (woodbe) carpenter, Retired USAF Civil Service and GM Skilled Trades Maintenance Manager. UAW Skilled Trades always the best assholes on the planet.
Thanks Ron! I saw those rails in your tour video and I was wondering what you liked about them over the festool rails. I went to your store in clicked on the TSO products and it took me to their web page. Do you get credit for my order or are they a sponsor? Is it similar to your Amazon links?
@@TheSmartWoodshop Perfect! My new Mission trailer is finally on its way. I ordered it about two months ago. The TSO system will save me time and effort as I build my SMART trailer.
Ron, your GRS-16 PE has 8 holes on the clamp side. Some versions have 4 holes. I sent pics to TSO and they are unable to explain the difference even though they have pictures of both on the TSO web site. They initially told me those are drilled by owners after purchase until I sent them a video of TSO's UA-cam page using the 8 hole version. What are the extra 4 holes for???? no one seems to know including TSO!!!
I think that was brought up on the Festool Owners Group forums and I believe Hans answered. IIRC, there was something else TSO was planning for the extra holes and it never came to fruition.
I just got the my parallel guide system. But was very disappointed when I discovered that one of the rails had a different color of blue than the other 5. Has any one experinced the same?? I also got the MTR-18, GRS-16 PE og GRS-16, they are the same blue color as the one of the rails.
@@TheSmartWoodshop Now Milwaukee have brought out their Track Saw and it's compatible with the Makita and Festool tracks - I presume it may be to TSO as well ?
Did they give you any insight as to when the 50 kit will be back in stock? It seems like I've been waiting quite a while for an email telling me to give them my $
@@ThekiBoran yes, thank you, I bought it from USTool&Fastener on the 23rd. They're good people, I purchased 90% of my Festool from them. TSO has me on their list
@@maxbrap Directly from TSO I ordered 2 of the quick connect adaptors for the festool rails, 2 track connectors and 2 extra flag stops. I hope the stops are beefy.
I bought almost $1,000 worth of TSO products including the Parallel guide kit in 30 and 50", the GRS and GRS PE (the square one) and the end connectors. SO disappointed, the colors range from dark blue to baby blue and their customer service rep was snooty about it. At this price level, I expected TSO to be more like Woodpeckers than Kreg -- and by the way, Kreg gets their colors consistent where TSO say they cant, and snootily defend the inconsistencies. Go for Woodpeckers if look and feel is important. By the way, Amazon sells a Festool version of the GRX at $130 so avoid TSO anyway.... By the way, I asked the snooty customer service rep to give me the CEO's email and she refused. He probably doesnt even know how inept they are...
Got the TSO GRS-16 square about 2 yrs ago. It was a game changer & I sold my MFT table. Obviously a far more portable way to square cut material on jobsites. TSO products are great.
I can tell, in the first half a second, what was **not** in that box you dropped on your work bench; it was not a set of 20" long Baccarat Crystal candle holders you may have gifted Chris for an anniversary present.
I've had many laughs in the creativity of the opening of your video!
Keep up the fun and great work!
😎🤙
Love it. I have the whole setup and am setting it up to cut plywood for a kitchen countertop which will get Formica.
Excellent video. Convinced me to go with TSO.
I am looking at this set thanks for reviewing!
Ron
perhaps you could make a comment on the pros and cons of this parallel guide system vs the Emily Adams one you have been using for awhile.
When cutting sheet goods larger than 48" like rip cuts for making kitchen counters it's a challenge getting edges square with an adjacent corner. Definitely want to invest in TSO and Festool. I have a Bora Centipede 4x8 that can be taken down when finished.
Mine came in this past Saturday...... is a fantastic system!
You also need a big workbench to cut with track saw so the space saving is debatable compared to say a table saw
A table saw cannot do what a track saw can do. A track saw replaces or works like a sliding table saw which is at least 10' long for ripping sheet goods. Those are big saws, take a lot of room and can't go to the job site. A work bench is necessary regardless of using a track saw or not so the track saw is the most compact and portable way to get rips done.
Hi. Thanks for the informative video. I recently purchased (on OfferUp) the Makita Track Saw system.
My question: I'm looking into the TSO parallel guide system. They offer a 20" inch rail, a 30" rail, and a combo set of 30"/50" rail ($100 more than the 30" set). In my spare time, I enjoy building small furniture for family and friends (book cases, shelves, tables, etc. in my side-of-the-garage shop. In your opinion, which rail size would you recommend? Thanks again!
If I could only have one rail I would go with 30" and workout something else for wider rips as 30 covers 90% of what I do. If you think you will do more wider rips then go with 50" as it will rip everything the 30" will. Of course it is a little clunky using the big rail for narrow stuff.
Thanks for taking the time read and reply to my request.
I wish we could have seen the narrow rip guide rods.
I’m just going to stop watching your videos! Every time I do, I hit the damn buy it now button😂 my wife hates you Ron Paulk, so does my bank account🤣
Would it be possible to show the thin rip option in action. Even though you have a table saw not everybody does. it's capability in this area may be the convincing factor.
Too true!
Hey Ron do you make 20mm dog holes or 3/4 inch dog holes and why?
20mm. They are industry standard worldwide. My first bench was 3/4" 4" on center and it was an uphill battle that caused problems. 20mm and 32mm spacing have been the industry standard in the cabinet world since WWII. The only regret I have is spending 30 years holding tight to Imperial. The metric system is so much easier than working with fractions. Add 1/8" + 3/16" + 1/64" or 3mm + 5mm + .5mm. I can do both, base 10 whole numbers wins for me. 😎🤙
Hi there, I am looking at these as an alternative to the 20mm mft table like you have there to make perfect 90 degree cuts (at least temp for now and may go for the mft table later on for other work) . Anyway the stops ...if you have one on the left and another on the right lets say at 30 inches each - how do we get them both dead on (each) at 30 inches..is there a chance one might be over or under a fraction compared to the other? does it notch in place for example?
I have the woodpeckers and it is a disappointment. How does the TSO differ?
The only reason a person needs parallel guides is if they are ripping several sheets of God knows what. I bought and returned the Woodpeckers parallel Guide set as I despise wasteful tool set up time. Then I bought the Festool Metric parallel guides put them together and never took them apart, As long as you use the same saw with the same model saw blade it's fairly easy to use. Pay attention to the set up videos offered all over you tube. I like the Festool Parallel guides but Paralax can be an issue with them, but they are a little heavy and I am kind of old and do not consider them the most portable. Seriously watch out for Parallax with these puppies.
So for a more portable set I bought the Seneca rail guides without the Incra Track as I have more Incra Track than I like to admit. The lock down of the Seneca to the Track was good but the incra track does not fit well and is less than desirable as it will not stay square without high precision shims. However, I did like their narrow stock guides. Also the Incra scales do tend to move so I used some hot glue to help them stay put. No, not the best solution.
Now I've gone and purchased the 30 inch option from TSO. I can report I bought the best one last. I never expect anything to be "Spot On", "Dead Nuts Square' when speaking about wood. There is close, very close, and really - really close. Wood is a living breathing material and it all moves. even very expensive plywood can and will move unless properly finished. So understand NOTHING will ever be and stay perfect. Go ahead argue all you want but you'll be on the losing side.
So what are some other problems? Set-up Methods, operator deviation, and Blade Deflection. Forget thin Kerf blades unless you like Blade Deflection, cupped guide rail splinter guards and all manner of issues. Every Material has an optimum Speed and Feed Rate and so do blades, end mills and router bits. "Like a Knife through Hot butter is not a mathematical term and can not be measured. Most people cut too fast, either too fast of a blade speed or pushing to hard and fast through the material.
Festool and Makita rails are not compatible the blade offsets on the saw are not the same measuring from the guide rib to the inside of the blade. I know as I have both type rails and both type saws. Also note that both manufacturers toe-in the front of the blade inward and not by the same amount. That thin assed blade on the Makita tracksaws is a POS - throw it away, buy their real ripping blade and enjoy your hobby. The Kerf is too thin and the Blade Plate thickness is even thinner. It will deflect with a heavy breath.
As for the parallel guides I own the TSO is the best. But poor setup kills them all and makes them all useless. Watch the TSO set up guide (more than once) learn to make and use MDF gage blocks to help with consistency side to side. The TSO is not only CNC cut but also CMM measured to a perfect computer model. Did I mention the etched scales on the TSO rails are in both Imperial and Metric and their stops are unmatched, better than everyone elses. The metric scale has a little mark every 32 mm as a bonus so you can make a balanced 32mm panel with their rails and this is why I bought the 30 inch rail set first. 768mm make a nice 32mm balanced panel for upper wall cabinets using Festools LR32 cabinet system. Almost US standard, but not exactly 30.25 inches. I try never to convert metric and Imperial or the other way around. Conversion is our enemy Use one, both but what ever the system stay with is until the projects end. 3/4 inch is not and can never be 18mm.
FestooUSAl pisses me off as they sell metric accessories for metric power tools but substitute the proper metric scale with a damn Inch Scale. This sounds stupid because it is.
Why 32 mm? Well 1.25 inch is 31.75mm, remember the USA rebuild Europe after WW2 and they improvised 16, 32, 48, 64, 96mm sounds like an MFT table being born.
We are all here so we can learn and grow. Nothing we make is perfect. Most need to forget about perfect, Get over themselves and learn to measure. How we deal with imperfection as a teacher is all important. Learn to plan, a drawing (crude as it may be) figure out what can go wrong and have a plan to deal with it. I waste a lot of wood, every piece is initially cut larger than I really need, but hey I have a wood burning shop stove. Winter is coming.
Your drawings will improve, and do not forget to mark your reference edge and face on every piece. Variation in panels is almost always operator error or deviation from a well thought out plan. Again, THIN kerf blades suck the air out of your projects and your confidence. Sorry for the rant. Certified Jet Engine Machinist (Suck Squeeze, Bang Blow) turned (woodbe) carpenter, Retired USAF Civil Service and GM Skilled Trades Maintenance Manager. UAW Skilled Trades always the best assholes on the planet.
Thanks Ron! I saw those rails in your tour video and I was wondering what you liked about them over the festool rails. I went to your store in clicked on the TSO products and it took me to their web page. Do you get credit for my order or are they a sponsor? Is it similar to your Amazon links?
We are a TSO affiliate so they pay us when our link is used. Thank You, R😎🤙
@@TheSmartWoodshop Perfect! My new Mission trailer is finally on its way. I ordered it about two months ago. The TSO system will save me time and effort as I build my SMART trailer.
Ron, your GRS-16 PE has 8 holes on the clamp side. Some versions have 4 holes. I sent pics to TSO and they are unable to explain the difference even though they have pictures of both on the TSO web site. They initially told me those are drilled by owners after purchase until I sent them a video of TSO's UA-cam page using the 8 hole version. What are the extra 4 holes for???? no one seems to know including TSO!!!
I think that was brought up on the Festool Owners Group forums and I believe Hans answered. IIRC, there was something else TSO was planning for the extra holes and it never came to fruition.
Are they metric or imperial? Maybe you mentioned it and I missed it...
Both
Both
Looks like a good system.
I already have the GRS 16 it is great.
But additional 400$ that is really a lot.
I little bit too expensive. 💰
They are a great value.
If someone uses the GRS-16 PE or the GRS-16, which are fast and easy to use and are accurate methods, is a parallel guide system really necessary?
They perform different functions
I just got the my parallel guide system. But was very disappointed when I discovered that one of the rails had a different color of blue than the other 5. Has any one experinced the same?? I also got the MTR-18, GRS-16 PE og GRS-16, they are the same blue color as the one of the rails.
I can’t catch the whole set in stock.
Nice
We the store products fit on a dewalt track saw?
Sorry No. TSO fits Festool, Makita, and Triton.
@@TheSmartWoodshop Now Milwaukee have brought out their Track Saw and it's compatible with the Makita and Festool tracks - I presume it may be to TSO as well ?
TSO now makes products for the DeWALT track saw.
@Ron Paulk: Does a system like this work with Kreg Accu-Cut and Rip-Cut?
recently TSO released a version that works with Kreg Track saws
Did they give you any insight as to when the 50 kit will be back in stock? It seems like I've been waiting quite a while for an email telling me to give them my $
did you get yours yet? I just ordered the tpg-30-50 from another company. they said they had a dozen kits in stock as of Feb 24
@@ThekiBoran yes, thank you, I bought it from USTool&Fastener on the 23rd. They're good people, I purchased 90% of my Festool from them. TSO has me on their list
@@maxbrap
Yes, I ordered my kit from US Tool yesterday. Gonna try it out on some exterior storage cabinets.
@@maxbrap
Directly from TSO I ordered 2 of the quick connect adaptors for the festool rails, 2 track connectors and 2 extra flag stops. I hope the stops are beefy.
@@ThekiBoran Nice, I have the GRS-16 set with the GRS-16 and The GRS-16 PE
Great stuff! Perhaps you could convince them to provide a coupon code for your viewers.
Heathcote Rapids
Reece Stravenue
Buy it once and it will last a lifetime.
I bought almost $1,000 worth of TSO products including the Parallel guide kit in 30 and 50", the GRS and GRS PE (the square one) and the end connectors. SO disappointed, the colors range from dark blue to baby blue and their customer service rep was snooty about it. At this price level, I expected TSO to be more like Woodpeckers than Kreg -- and by the way, Kreg gets their colors consistent where TSO say they cant, and snootily defend the inconsistencies. Go for Woodpeckers if look and feel is important. By the way, Amazon sells a Festool version of the GRX at $130 so avoid TSO anyway.... By the way, I asked the snooty customer service rep to give me the CEO's email and she refused. He probably doesnt even know how inept they are...