Government controlled by the companies that hold the patents. America today is completely sold out, corporations make the rules now and have for years. They keep the illusion of old ways to keep us normal people fooled but nothing is done without consulting those that pay you (corporations).
@@mikee2923 that's putting it lightly. I assure you, it's mostly govt control. Well, corporation controlled actually, but corporations leverage the EPA via lobbyist money. It's greed plain and simple. Has NOTHING to do with environment.
When the HFC refrigerants came out we were told that they were environmentally safe yet we still had to recover them. They will find something wrong with the new refrigerants. It's just a matter of time. It will never end.
I recall back in the 80’s , when I was designing industrial refrigeration, R11 and 12 were the first to be phased out. Marketing ads were touting our systems were using “environmentally friendly” R22. 😂
I remember that. They said that you could not use the 134a in the old system unless you changed the oil in the compressor, O-rings and the accumulator. I gassed that puppy up with the new stuff and it worked just fine. Just like the old time used car salesman use to charge systems up with propane. It has freezing cold air conditioning!!
Yep history repeats itself and now HFCs are now the dangerous environmental boogie man which was once touted as "environmentally friendly". What a joke that modern techs have fallen for this garbage
I sold my house a few years ago and it had a r22 heil suystem .. 30 years, still running strong. ii ran ALOT in the Texas heat with long summers,. sometimes running 12 to 16 hours a day for months. I worked on r 22 systems that were 40 to 50 years old. I guess they were too reliable and they want to sell new units.
@@sprockkets IT DOES because if its a blend, and u have a leak, it leaks out at different rates, you you have to recover the remaining charge and refill it as a liquid.,, abt 30 percent of all systems develop leaks withing 10 years, due to half assed techs, or poor designs, many companies use refrigerant sales as thier cash cow, they asrent interested in finding and fixing the leaks, because its steady money, until the customer catches on,,, I installed thousands of residential systems, and NEVER had a problem due to a poor weld, moisture in the systems, faulty wiring, improper duct sizing, wrong return air cfm, ect... I worked for a company in tx, that had the lion share of the work in the town,, for years they had alot of calls on leaking drains.. They simply didnt know how to properly build a drain, and I had to fix every one I went on. I have had some challenging systems over the years.. there was a house that they could not get good airflow out of the ducts.,. everything checked out, they replaced the blower and cage, sealed all ducts, but it still wouldnt push alot of air,, so they pulled and cleaned the a coil, put a high flow filter, still poor air flow.. checked to make sure blower was turning the right way, checked capacitor, nothing worked.., would u like to know what the problem was?
what was happening is when you shut the blower door, the vacuum would pull the insulation pad on the inside of the air handler against the blower motor, blocking the air flow.. when you stopped the unit from running, and pulled the access door off, it would sit back in its place, so everything looked right,, Sears sent 5 tech to this call and nobody caught it. I had seen this happen once before, so I quickly found it,.,. I have more interesting calls if anyone wants to learn.,,. I have 20 years in the residential hvac/ appliance field and I saw ALOT of odd things.
@@randy1ization dude if no one in your company could diagnose that, that's on them, and doesn't make you special. Which your entire wall of a post you still haven't actually rebutted my original assertion. Not that having an off mix of r410a isn't going to make a big difference nor present a horrible obstacle.
EPA just phased out all class 8 semi truck and dump trucks in California. This will most likely go nation wide sooner than later .22 was and is a good refrigerant. Easy to get good temps out of 22 . I still have a 22 system in my own house .
R22 phased out to R410A when the trademark expired. R410A is phasing out when it's trademark expires. Every time they do they go to a inferior product. It's all about the money and control
@@FredX-ul4sv right. What's up with that fail to heat nonsense. One company makes every thermostat maker add an extra step to their setup just so they can be different
I was just in Cancun, Mexico in November. I saw 2 guys charging up an outdoor unit while we were in town. They had a brand spanking new R-22 cylinder still in the box with a 2022 date code. No big deal there I guess.
Yet we must conform to the idiot environmentalist's movement while the rest of the world ignores everything. CO2 and HFCs travel via our atmosphere to all locations in the world yet our economy is burdened by those lacking any common sense.
It took 10 years for r22 to “phase out” we can still buy it and use it. There is so much commercial equipment out there that they can’t. I’ll believe it when I see it!
@@kevinroberts781 call R290 what it really is. ultra refined odorless propane. matter of fact my BBQ grill just ran out. might be a little expensive but I've been dying to actually try running r290 in my barbecue grill. I'll update with the results probably do it next weekend . I have to make an adapter but no big deal
@@mikerefrigeration5736 Lord, when congress determines what we use instead of recommendations from the EPA we're all doomed. There is no science being used in half of congress.
Correct. They came out with micro channel coils right before the big switch from 22 to 410. They were crap with 22 let alone the higher pressures of 410. How can 410 be considered “greener” when it takes more power to pump it? Just more evidence this is all BS.
Whoa whoa whoa, R-410a is going to be available for pretty much forever but 85% will be phased out in systems in 2036 and not available for use in brand new equipment. We already know that Carrier/Bryant/ICP will be going with the R-454b product line. I wrote a long response here about the various companies and what they have chosen, but UA-cam or the channel owner decided they would edit my response and deleted it. More censorship is at hand. Either way, Daikin is the only manufacturer at this time going with R-32 and that means Goodman and Amana will be lumped in there. The rest of the major manufacturers will be running the R-454b and we have known this for a year or two. But 410a will never go away just as R-22 has not gone anywhere and available everywhere. Do not worry about anything related to refrigerants and availability.
It will go away, and even faster than R-22. Yes R-22 is still available in limited quantities, if you want to pay $1300-$1700 a jug. Yes 410A will continue to be available, but not at a reasonable price.
I saw the press release that Carrier was moving to R454B, but I have not been able to find a timeline.... I'm in process of building a new house right now (Framing), and I expect HVAC will be in Spring 2023... Would love to skip R410A. @balticblue93 do you know timing for Carrier/Bryant to be making equipment with R454b? Thanks
I don't know what pipe you're smoking or where you live but if you honestly believe R-22 is widely available and easily accessible, you're on something. Out here at least in the PNW. Per pound of R22 is like a minimum of 155$ a lb and it takes days to get the product.
I use R290 in my unit. It's obviously an older unit. If you research you can find replacement refrigerant's that are 1/4 the cost. It's not hard to add to the system
@@NewHVACGuide Hey! Just found your channel a few days back and just subbed. I'm soaking up a ton of info from you and other channels and really appreciate your efforts to inform others. I'm looking for some employment advice, if you don't mind. I have electrical and other related experience and am 47yo and healthy/fit. I enjoy doing ministry work but would really love to learn HVAC (I'm a little addicted atm). Essentially, I'm looking to become a residential HVAC service tech but would actually love to be laid off (or furloughed?) for a few months out of the year (spring and fall) and focus that time on ministry work. Would you mind offering up some suggestions? Is that something that would turn off an employer? I see some contractors are hiring (Spokane, WA/CDA, ID area - I'm here visiting relatives but used to live here and am willing to move back for all or part of the year) and am wanting to figure out my approach before saying something regretful. Thanks for any help your willing to give me. Blessings Edit: I probably shouldn't have posted in someone else's comment. Not sure if that's a flagrant foul or not 😬🙏
I think they should have the newer system out for 5 years before they start banning the older ones. Because what about the people that just bought the r410 this year....
@@dknowles60 Too much to address here with your system. Is it 1) sized properly to the home? 2) Is returns proper size? 3) IS duct work properly sized an sealed? 4) How is your attic insulation? 5) Many other questions. But..... I've only done this on Goodman systems. 1) Using a Goodman metering page for system size and seer rating, select the "Piston" or "TXV" used for the same seer and tonnage for R-22 systems. 2) Evacuate the 410-A and replace the Piston/TXV along with new O rings. 3) Replace filter dryer 4) replace valve cores. 5) prep for charging, and charge system with 421-A as if your charging up an R-22 system. IMPORTANT: Only charge to normal R-22 operating pressures. 6) LABEL the system to show it has been changed to 421-A Note: No need to be concerned about the POE oil, as R421-A requires the addition of POE oil if there is a line set lift of over 15ft, for a normal R-22 conversion to 421-A
You just lost around a third of your system efficiency by doing that. Those compressor scrolls are sized differently for a reason between refrigerants.
Did you check to see if the compression ratio of the compressor is right for the new refrigerant? .... some refrigerants have a wide or different glide due to the mixture ratio of the refrigerant make up. Are the coils sized for that? ...it's not just the TXV/metering device that matters. You can be losing a lot of the efficiency of the original system engineering.
@@virtual_bomber5698 I learned to do this from the "Inventor" of 421-A, when I was in his class to learn how to properly change over an R22 system to 421-A. That is also when I learned we where LIED to about mixing POE with Mineral oil, since the retro fit requires POE oil to be added when the lift is more than 15ft.
So I just installed a mini split system, and getting ready to install another one with R410a in them. If I get a leak, will I not be able to get R410a, or some sort of replacement that will work in my systems?
This just in the EPA has ban everything and now we have to live in mud huts with blocks of ice. Except in California no ice because of the water shortages. ahah life is good..Thanks EPA.
I stocked up on 5 30lb tanks of 410a before all the price hike insanity and i'm not in the HVAC industry. I stocked up because we built a few homes and all new central units are 410a which i figured years down the road a tech may try to charge some insane price to charge the units or whatever. Just planning for the unknowns!
A technician is not going to use your refrigerant just to let you know buddy. And if you’re not a certified technician, you shouldn’t be messing around with HVAC appliances.
@@grantbrown2432 down here they will. We do not get suckered into common scams by hvac techs including the heavily inflated prices on central air units. They tried to rip me off here on a single 4 ton system installed in a brand new built home for $14k. We got the same system for $3900 and paid the same tech $800 to install. Can’t rip me off
Because most of the “sheeple” (over educated college graduates who were taught what to think instead of how to think) look up and aspire to be like the phony rich and famous (most of which live in the People’s Republic of California or other liberal controlled area). So they buy into whatever these empty headed morons say.
That is true. One day (probably sooner than most realize) the United States will fall most likely by self inflicted wounds with the People’s Republic of California leading the way.
Libs in their "tolerance" and moral superiority will dictate the whole world change and conform to them. (They even wave rainbow flags in Qatar). You will also drive EVs because they dictate that. Don't bother telling them their plans can't be affordable for ordinary consumers. They already know that. They tend to be part of the elite upper class who won't be severely impacted, and the lower income libs are doomsday cult sheep who refuse to see how this will impact their economic future. The rest of us will just have to make do as the libs dictate everything for "our democracy", including election outcomes. And our uniparty alternative legislators seem to be in on it as they merely make dissenting noises while twiddling their thumbs.
Make the big manufacturers kick back to the actual company that's installing their products! We are the face the customer sees not the third-party that we have to buy from. The customer thinks we have some kind of relationship with the makers of the products 😣
I was uper of r22 system, that never needed a top up in 20 years. So its very good for environment. Then compressor died and technician had no way to recover it when replacing the unit and vented it all out wtf.
You missed that train. I was buying it wholesale for $48 and overnight it spiked to almost $400. This happened a couple years ago. Right now it's just under 300.
They may work okay in a traditional single stage system, but I don't think anything else will work properly in inverter systems like mini splits since the computers expect a certain temperature pressure relationship and won't understand why the temperatures and pressures aren't what's expected.
@@christopherkidwell9817 Maybe on some systems, but certainly not all of them. Equipment manufacturers have no incentive to develop ways for you to use retrofit refrigerants in their older equipment. On many systems (like mine), there's no way to update the software. And if expensive control boards have to be replaced to use a drop in, that defeats the whole purpose of drop in replacements, which is to save money by using a cheaper product.
@@averyalexander2303 Yes, they do. Federal law on planned obsolescence would come into play here and force them to find ways to 'fix' issues like this.
@@christopherkidwell9817 Maybe where you are, but here in America, there are no laws stating that an equipment manufacturer has to design updated parts for existing equipment to make it compatible with new refrigerants. If someone chooses to use a refrigerant the system wasn't designed to use, the manufacturer is in no way responsible for any good or bad results or for coming up with solutions to problems that occur as a result. And yes, a manufacturer can void your system's warranty if you use an unapproved retrofit refrigerant that they determined caused a malfunction.
just to get new units installed keep the money coming in always have to replace units because they're not compatible with new regulations endless cycle
I'm not an HVAC guy, but understand how the systems work. That said, I'm confused why they got rid of R22 to get rid of the chlorine, but its OK to have chlorine in your swimming pool and use chlorine bleach in your laundry? What is the difference? Thanks.
I miss read what you were saying. The issue is how quickly the chlorine is released from its chemical compound. In pool chlorine it's done almost instantly because of how weak the chemical bond actually is but in refrigerants like r22 the amount of UV radiation required to actually free that chlorine allows the chlorine to be released in the upper atmosphere and therefore depletes the ozone layer.
@@wildoutrudeboy - Pool chlorine is free unbound chlorine and can't survive the ride into the upper atmosphere. In R22 the chlorine is bound to the rest of the chemical structure and survives the ride up. UV light then busts it apart where chlorine is released and damages the ozone layer.
What do I do when I only have 2 hvac contractors that service my area and sell the exact same system? (Fujitsu) really would like to get a daikin or Bosch system but it looks like that’s impossible unless i install it myself. Any advice?
You must Live in a very small town. Usually contractors sell brands based on who the best supplier is in their area. Or at least who they feel is the best supplier. So it's possible that there's only one good supplier selling this brand and the two contractors you have, have only the one supplier
r22 units were bullet proof. Doesn't matter what company you went with they would last a while. But I don't know why but im in houston Tx 410a just leak more and ive changed more 410a compressors and at my house both r22 units running and working for 22 years. just changed capacitors 1 contactor and 1 fan motor other than thay never changed anything nothing changed on both furnaces still running.
@@daw2310 it’s mostly due to improper maintenance from home owner. I’ve noticed that the premium brands tend to last longer such as American standard, Ruud. I know trane is the exact same unit and rheem is the exact same.
@@daw2310 Yes, but in the older days, the equipment was more forgiving. Today, you can't get away without doing proper vacuuming out of the line set or setting proper air flow and charge. But most techs don't care or can't even do that right.
Let’s hope they don’t do dry charge units. In fact, I vote they do not. The only reason they came out with those is that all the apartment owners crying, but it really was a hack. It was illegal to install one and less it had a coil that matched 13 seer And we all know that’s not where they were installed and most of these apartment owners are still just using generic refrigerant in their old are 22 units so unless the place was built recently in the last 1314 years probably don’t even need a 410 a unit lol😂
Do the cooling coils inside the air handler also need to change when the refrigerant changes? Or only the compressors? I bought a new air handler/coil in a pinch last summer planning to upgrade the compressor to a heat pump in the next year or so.
Maybe. For a flammable refrigerant like R32, I would think the coils would have to be specifically rated for that class of flammable refrigerants since a leak could be very bad and other devices like leak sensors could be required. Other than that, the coil itself should be fine as long as it is the proper size, a heat pump coil (rated for higher pressures), and the new refrigerant doesn't run at a higher pressure than 410A. I'm not sure what pressures the new refrigerants run at. The expansion device may be different though.
HVAC tech here by the way - "re-filling" a system should be done once, after the leaks and potential leaks are addressed... If you are filling your system often you should seek a HVAC tech who will be honest with you about what a leak is
My Diakin mini split is R 32 which is 6 years old, refrigerator R 600 A, 7 years old, both said at the time to be more efficient alternatives to R 410 A. Am I missing something or is the U.S. slightly behind the times ?
"More efficient" is often a flat out lie. Is it "more efficient" if that system lasts 5 years instead of 45 years? Daikin equipment is some of the most over-engineered equipment I've seen in my life. I hazard to say you may have many issues
@@xraceboyex Energy efficiency comes from the type of refrigerant used along with electronic technology to vary the compressor speed, naturally this increases the complexity over a fixed speed unit. Some argue modern cars not as reliable as ones from the past for the same reason, in some cases this may be true depending on where they're manufactured, choosing the right brand is important to ensure longevity, this applies to AC units as well. The amount of energy consumed by an energy inefficient unit over a 45 year life span would exceed the replacement cost multiple times, depending on how much energy costs. North America lags in technology due to the low cost of energy, in other countries where the cost may be 2 to 3 times higher, energy efficiency is significantly more important to the consumer.
They ditched R410a but it's already 50% of R32 anyhow. Mini splits and window units do not have any need for brazing so having the R125 in it isn't necessary to dampen R32's flammability. It's not really due to it being "better".
No you won’t have to replace it. Get as much life out of it as you can. However, the refrigerant is going to get more and more expensive as time goes on.
@@NewHVACGuide Seems like every time this happens, it's faster and faster. R12/22 was around for nearly 1/2 a century. R410 only since 1998, and only mandated for new equipment since 2010. So barely even half as long. It's really stupid, they should put a stop to any new refrigerants, and decide on what they want to use, and mandate it be permanent. Like minimum 50 years, and no more than 2-3 types of refrigerant allowed. There was no need for even back in the bad old days, of R11, 12, 22, 502 etc. Yes you need special refrigerants for ultra low temp temp, like CO2/Ethylene cascase systems, but for air conditioning, coolers, freezers, chillers, should be able to just use 1-2 refrigerants at most. I can't see any reason for example why R404A couldn't be used for virtually anything, except for the fact it has a very high GWP. There's no need for 14-15 different flavor of the month refrigerants, and forcing people to replace stuff over and over faster and faster is just completely bonkers. How much global warming will replacing all the hvacr systems all over the world with new flimsy unreliable flaky junk that won't last? How much trash will end up in the landfills? How much fuel and time wasted by techs having to drive twice as much and have twice as big of a truck to haul around 15 different recovery cylinders and 18 different refrigerants? EPA's favorite thing is throwing the baby out with the bath water with all these new stupid rule makings, because they get too narrow of a focus, and fail to get the really big picture.
I'd buy a tank of 410a and have it on hand for when the time comes. A contractor will likely have it when the time comes but I'm hearing $800 to evac and recharge.
@@brnmcc01 Anybody get the similarity to computers (specifically machines running Windows) with Microsoft coming out with a new version every two or three years? Oh, they had to have new hardware because the new software required more memory to run. So, off to see your computer salesman for a new system. Over and over again. Some of the later changes like Vista to 10 and 10 to 11 had barely noticeable improvement if any. Collusion between the software makers and the hardware makers.
@@brnmcc01 Dude, we have literally 100 plus different refrigerants, and that's being conservative. What you are whining about already is a thing. It's only the people who have no clue what they are talking about that bitch about this, because they think installing an a/c or anything else is "easy."
in 2024, my R 22 system will be 25 years old. Should I nurse it along until the new refrigerant is widely available, or replace it with the last 421a systems?
@@holtrussell I agree, mine leaks about 3lbs a year. I have a friend that bought a bunch of 22 before it got expensive, that's how I've been limping along. If I were going to keep it, I would consider 407c or another replacement. I hear there is one you can top off with, but I am weary about mixing them.
It’s all about money anyway I was a HVACR tech during the first refrigerant switchover and now at 53yo I am going to switch careers because I am tired of buying all the tools they claim you need for the new refrigerants. I’m Done! Going to work at a plant in maintenance
It's all about the money, I still have my original r22 system that came with my house 1998. And a spare r22 condenser factory charged in my garage, lol. I never liked 410a refrigerant, the r22 refrigerant cools better than the 410a in my opinion. I install, service, and repair HVAC-R for 20+ years, coolest trade in my eyes.
So stupid. We're still waiting in our area for ANY of the new refrigerants. They don't even have the available yet, and we're talking about bans on what we already have? This is a shit show.
Are we talking large systems or everything? Residential, Automotive, even this huge 3 year old trend of heat pump water heaters? Almost everything sold today just switched to 410a now there is already something new? I feel bad for anyone that just purchased new r410 anything to only now having to think well now I have to thinking about replacing whole..
Is it true that the replacement refrigerant of 410a will have propane in it? That’s what I heard from the guy behind the counter at Trane. If that’s true, what’s that going to do to repairing a system leak? I understand you can pump it down or recover the freon but other freons have a little freon still in the oil. Can you put a torch to it?
In Canada if you want to get new refrigerant for your car (if it’s 134A), you have to replace it with R12A - which is essentially propane and butane. Sure would suck to get in a crash
Not sure where you have been and the pricing increase has been underway for some time. The supply chain issues are a REAL thing. Many major manufacturers are seeing lead times go to outrageous numbers. Welcome to the fall our of shutting the machine down and the record inflation that has been happening for the past year. and yes I am an HVAC supplier that is dealing with these issues first hand......
Maxitrol told me ~300 days when I was looking for a replacement mod gas valve for a warehouse MAU lol. I can attest. Also outlawed suppliers selling the solenoid by itself, which was the only thing I actually needed
ok what would you do if it was me have a 8 year old goodman 3 ton gas pack its long been paid for to i repair the AC part if it fails do i want to buy a r 32 systeen been told the parts for r 32 are very costly and that R 32 can catch on firw or do i wait for the honney well to come out. the good nest is good man parts are cheap
Run it until you can't get parts for it anymore. In the meantime, start saving up for a replacement. Even with R22 being banned from production, there's still enough out there if you need it and there is a drop in replacement refrigerant called TdX 20, R458A manufactured by (Bluon). Customer cost for R22 where I am at is $200 a pound on the low end and I've seen it go up to $400 a pound. Brand new jug of R22 is now $1800 the last time I checked. New jug of R458A is $500. Prices may be a little lower where you live. I live on an island in the middle of the Pacific ocean so everything costs an arm and a leg because of shipping.
Sometimes making a change is created just to move money. Out of one's hip pocket to another! Just think, if Henry Ford's thoughts of keeping the "A" the same every year it would keep the price of auto's low! Henry must have been thinking down the road. GM is the company that started changing models on a yearly basis and the public fell for it! Look at the cost of cars today!
Let's phase out the EPA instead.
Agree 100%
I heard that. We change, but the rest of the world still using the older Freons. That's right, I said freon not refrigerants.
@@jthonn if you are going to use the word Freon then I have to go into my garage and cry where no one can see.
@@coldjello8436 LMAO, it will keep your jello cold
I’m guessing the EPA is highly motivated by lobbyists that make and organizations that represent those that work on the equipment. Follow the money!
You can guess the phase out date on refrigerants by looking out the patent expiration date. It's all about the money, not the environment.
You’re mostly correct. There is the factor of government control involved.
Government controlled by the companies that hold the patents. America today is completely sold out, corporations make the rules now and have for years. They keep the illusion of old ways to keep us normal people fooled but nothing is done without consulting those that pay you (corporations).
@@mikee2923 Government making these decisions are -bribed- (cough) lobbied to make them a certain way, so it's the same thing.
@@mikee2923 that's putting it lightly. I assure you, it's mostly govt control. Well, corporation controlled actually, but corporations leverage the EPA via lobbyist money. It's greed plain and simple. Has NOTHING to do with environment.
Same with pharmaceuticals, the greed never ends.
When the HFC refrigerants came out we were told that they were environmentally safe yet we still had to recover them. They will find something wrong with the new refrigerants. It's just a matter of time. It will never end.
When they eliminate mankind, then the earth will be safe.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing, expecting something else to happen...
Job security for those long term EPA employees.
@@jaredtandle2596 If we’re only that simple.
The patent ran out, that's what's wrong.
I recall back in the 80’s , when I was designing industrial refrigeration, R11 and 12 were the first to be phased out. Marketing ads were touting our systems were using “environmentally friendly” R22. 😂
I remember that. They said that you could not use the 134a in the old system unless you changed the oil in the compressor, O-rings and the accumulator. I gassed that puppy up with the new stuff and it worked just fine. Just like the old time used car salesman use to charge systems up with propane. It has freezing cold air conditioning!!
Yep history repeats itself and now HFCs are now the dangerous environmental boogie man which was once touted as "environmentally friendly". What a joke that modern techs have fallen for this garbage
That was also when ignorance was bliss, and acid trips were amuck.
It's all a total money making scam. Hands are getting greased.
Democrats mean more money out of your pocket, so if you like your repair cost keep voting for a Dem ( commie).
Let’s go back to 22 units with lower seer ratings that would run reliably for 20 years!
I sold my house a few years ago and it had a r22 heil suystem .. 30 years, still running strong. ii ran ALOT in the Texas heat with long summers,. sometimes running 12 to 16 hours a day for months. I worked on r 22 systems that were 40 to 50 years old. I guess they were too reliable and they want to sell new units.
Refrigerant type has nothing to do with longevity.
@@sprockkets IT DOES because if its a blend, and u have a leak, it leaks out at different rates, you you have to recover the remaining charge and refill it as a liquid.,, abt 30 percent of all systems develop leaks withing 10 years, due to half assed techs, or poor designs, many companies use refrigerant sales as thier cash cow, they asrent interested in finding and fixing the leaks, because its steady money, until the customer catches on,,, I installed thousands of residential systems, and NEVER had a problem due to a poor weld, moisture in the systems, faulty wiring, improper duct sizing, wrong return air cfm, ect... I worked for a company in tx, that had the lion share of the work in the town,, for years they had alot of calls on leaking drains.. They simply didnt know how to properly build a drain, and I had to fix every one I went on.
I have had some challenging systems over the years..
there was a house that they could not get good airflow out of the ducts.,. everything checked out, they replaced the blower and cage, sealed all ducts, but it still wouldnt push alot of air,, so they pulled and cleaned the a coil, put a high flow filter, still poor air flow.. checked to make sure blower was turning the right way, checked capacitor, nothing worked.., would u like to know what the problem was?
what was happening is when you shut the blower door, the vacuum would pull the insulation pad on the inside of the air handler against the blower motor, blocking the air flow.. when you stopped the unit from running, and pulled the access door off, it would sit back in its place, so everything looked right,, Sears sent 5 tech to this call and nobody caught it. I had seen this happen once before, so I quickly found it,.,. I have more interesting calls if anyone wants to learn.,,. I have 20 years in the residential hvac/ appliance field and I saw ALOT of odd things.
@@randy1ization dude if no one in your company could diagnose that, that's on them, and doesn't make you special.
Which your entire wall of a post you still haven't actually rebutted my original assertion. Not that having an off mix of r410a isn't going to make a big difference nor present a horrible obstacle.
EPA just phased out all class 8 semi truck and dump trucks in California. This will most likely go nation wide sooner than later .22 was and is a good refrigerant. Easy to get good temps out of 22 . I still have a 22 system in my own house .
Me too. With enough R-22 to charge it several times over. I also have old cars with R-12 and a good supply of it.
Such is the result of green people in charge. Green is the color of their dead brains.
Me three, R22 keeps rocking. Just keep the coils clean.
Plus there are so many good drop ins alternatives to 22 if you really need them.
@@thesquirrel905 Maybe. But nothing is as good as the original.
R22 phased out to R410A when the trademark expired. R410A is phasing out when it's trademark expires. Every time they do they go to a inferior product. It's all about the money and control
Yep...
I agree
Sounds about right
@@FredX-ul4sv right. What's up with that fail to heat nonsense. One company makes every thermostat maker add an extra step to their setup just so they can be different
Since trademarks don't expire and r410a is based on older refrigerants, your post is complete bull sht.
I was just in Cancun, Mexico in November. I saw 2 guys charging up an outdoor unit while we were in town. They had a brand spanking new R-22 cylinder still in the box with a 2022 date code. No big deal there I guess.
Yet we must conform to the idiot environmentalist's movement while the rest of the world ignores everything. CO2 and HFCs travel via our atmosphere to all locations in the world yet our economy is burdened by those lacking any common sense.
And it works well and almost anyone can figure out how to set pressures.
Yea , there's guys that cross the border to purchase r22 and bring it over, happens all day long
Thank you for the clarity.
It took 10 years for r22 to “phase out” we can still buy it and use it. There is so much commercial equipment out there that they can’t. I’ll believe it when I see it!
Use R290. It is a direct replacement
@@kevinroberts781 call R290 what it really is. ultra refined odorless propane. matter of fact my BBQ grill just ran out. might be a little expensive but I've been dying to actually try running r290 in my barbecue grill. I'll update with the results probably do it next weekend . I have to make an adapter but no big deal
It’s all about money 💰!!! That’s it, nothing more.
Ban it all . We need to ban the EPA . 410A here in NY $450.00 for 25 lbs can . And R22 $1400 a can
Epa does not have the authority to make law !
They lost in the Supreme Court last year!!
Maybe donald trump should be in charge of what freons we use....😏
@@mikerefrigeration5736 Lord, when congress determines what we use instead of recommendations from the EPA we're all doomed. There is no science being used in half of congress.
Sadly congress voted to approve 410a getting phased out.
The coils are about to be made more cheaply, and the price will go up.
Correct. They came out with micro channel coils right before the big switch from 22 to 410. They were crap with 22 let alone the higher pressures of 410. How can 410 be considered “greener” when it takes more power to pump it? Just more evidence this is all BS.
@@mikee2923 That's because it doesn't take more power to move it.
Whoa whoa whoa, R-410a is going to be available for pretty much forever but 85% will be phased out in systems in 2036 and not available for use in brand new equipment. We already know that Carrier/Bryant/ICP will be going with the R-454b product line.
I wrote a long response here about the various companies and what they have chosen, but UA-cam or the channel owner decided they would edit my response and deleted it. More censorship is at hand. Either way, Daikin is the only manufacturer at this time going with R-32 and that means Goodman and Amana will be lumped in there. The rest of the major manufacturers will be running the R-454b and we have known this for a year or two. But 410a will never go away just as R-22 has not gone anywhere and available everywhere. Do not worry about anything related to refrigerants and availability.
It will go away, and even faster than R-22. Yes R-22 is still available in limited quantities, if you want to pay $1300-$1700 a jug. Yes 410A will continue to be available, but not at a reasonable price.
@@brnmcc01 Just throw some R-421A in it! at 450 a drum
facts you still get r12 units charged it just be high cost or use a drop in replacement like i do
I saw the press release that Carrier was moving to R454B, but I have not been able to find a timeline.... I'm in process of building a new house right now (Framing), and I expect HVAC will be in Spring 2023... Would love to skip R410A. @balticblue93 do you know timing for Carrier/Bryant to be making equipment with R454b? Thanks
I don't know what pipe you're smoking or where you live but if you honestly believe R-22 is widely available and easily accessible, you're on something.
Out here at least in the PNW. Per pound of R22 is like a minimum of 155$ a lb and it takes days to get the product.
When will the freon scam end ? Absolutely ridiculous!
I use R290 in my unit. It's obviously an older unit. If you research you can find replacement refrigerant's that are 1/4 the cost. It's not hard to add to the system
Thanks. Good info!!
Thanks pal
@@NewHVACGuide Hey! Just found your channel a few days back and just subbed. I'm soaking up a ton of info from you and other channels and really appreciate your efforts to inform others.
I'm looking for some employment advice, if you don't mind. I have electrical and other related experience and am 47yo and healthy/fit. I enjoy doing ministry work but would really love to learn HVAC (I'm a little addicted atm). Essentially, I'm looking to become a residential HVAC service tech but would actually love to be laid off (or furloughed?) for a few months out of the year (spring and fall) and focus that time on ministry work. Would you mind offering up some suggestions? Is that something that would turn off an employer? I see some contractors are hiring (Spokane, WA/CDA, ID area - I'm here visiting relatives but used to live here and am willing to move back for all or part of the year) and am wanting to figure out my approach before saying something regretful. Thanks for any help your willing to give me. Blessings
Edit: I probably shouldn't have posted in someone else's comment. Not sure if that's a flagrant foul or not 😬🙏
Right as the patents run out they become too toxic fur the EnViRoNmEnT. I’ll just keep my more efficient r22 thanks
absolutely
First learn to use your brain before making such a stupid assertion.
I think they should have the newer system out for 5 years before they start banning the older ones. Because what about the people that just bought the r410 this year....
And the cows keep farting and laughing
😄
It's all about controlling =$
FJB This is a scam.
EPA doesn't know a damn thing in my opinion. I'm still maintaining R22 systems using R22 direct replacement refrigerants.
I am a HVAC tech and still have R-22 refrigerant
When I started in the trade three jug’s on the truck22,12and 502
What was it like back then? What did y’all do before recovery machines and all that crap?
@@thatmeatteacher8662 I remember wacking the condenser waiting for the crane in the morning RTU change out in 1984. We never heard of ozone layer🤣
I have several R410-A systems that I converted to R421-A, and they have been running like champs for the last 5 years.
how is it done. all i know is my 3 ton r 410 dont do to well in the middle of the day
@@dknowles60 Too much to address here with your system. Is it 1) sized properly to the home? 2) Is returns proper size? 3) IS duct work properly sized an sealed? 4) How is your attic insulation? 5) Many other questions. But.....
I've only done this on Goodman systems. 1) Using a Goodman metering page for system size and seer rating, select the "Piston" or "TXV" used for the same seer and tonnage for R-22 systems. 2) Evacuate the 410-A and replace the Piston/TXV along with new O rings. 3) Replace filter dryer 4) replace valve cores. 5) prep for charging, and charge system with 421-A as if your charging up an R-22 system. IMPORTANT: Only charge to normal R-22 operating pressures. 6) LABEL the system to show it has been changed to 421-A
Note: No need to be concerned about the POE oil, as R421-A requires the addition of POE oil if there is a line set lift of over 15ft, for a normal R-22 conversion to 421-A
You just lost around a third of your system efficiency by doing that.
Those compressor scrolls are sized differently for a reason between refrigerants.
Did you check to see if the compression ratio of the compressor is right for the new refrigerant? .... some refrigerants have a wide or different glide due to the mixture ratio of the refrigerant make up. Are the coils sized for that? ...it's not just the TXV/metering device that matters. You can be losing a lot of the efficiency of the original system engineering.
@@virtual_bomber5698 I learned to do this from the "Inventor" of 421-A, when I was in his class to learn how to properly change over an R22 system to 421-A.
That is also when I learned we where LIED to about mixing POE with Mineral oil, since the retro fit requires POE oil to be added when the lift is more than 15ft.
So I just installed a mini split system, and getting ready to install another one with R410a in them. If I get a leak, will I not be able to get R410a, or some sort of replacement that will work in my systems?
This just in the EPA has ban everything and now we have to live in mud huts with blocks of ice. Except in California no ice because of the water shortages. ahah life is good..Thanks EPA.
R-12, baby......thats the way to go......
We still have tons of customers with r22 systems. We as a company still have a lot of r22 jugs to go thru.
Good for you! A lot of suppliers are out of R22!
the air conditioners I work with have R32... but I see every day equipment with R410 and also with R22
I’m gonna get me some of that r-32 and 454 b and check it out for myself❤😮😅😂
What about the refrigerant for heat pumps?
You can't buy it from eBay, Walmart, or Amazon in Florida.
That's where I have gotten it before.
My customers are already having a hard time , this is ridiculous !
Right
I stocked up on 5 30lb tanks of 410a before all the price hike insanity and i'm not in the HVAC industry. I stocked up because we built a few homes and all new central units are 410a which i figured years down the road a tech may try to charge some insane price to charge the units or whatever. Just planning for the unknowns!
Let’s just say I know someone that did that with R22
I'm in Houston,I'm a Cert Tech
@@LC-qi5ff if it can stay in a sealed system indefinitely, it can stay in a tank
A technician is not going to use your refrigerant just to let you know buddy. And if you’re not a certified technician, you shouldn’t be messing around with HVAC appliances.
@@grantbrown2432 down here they will. We do not get suckered into common scams by hvac techs including the heavily inflated prices on central air units. They tried to rip me off here on a single 4 ton system installed in a brand new built home for $14k. We got the same system for $3900 and paid the same tech $800 to install. Can’t rip me off
Still working on R-22 systems
Question - Why does the State of California always dictate what our nation must adhere too by way of clean air acts ?
Because most of the “sheeple” (over educated college graduates who were taught what to think instead of how to think) look up and aspire to be like the phony rich and famous (most of which live in the People’s Republic of California or other liberal controlled area). So they buy into whatever these empty headed morons say.
The canned response would be, it's something that's going to happen anyway, California just does it first.
That is true. One day (probably sooner than most realize) the United States will fall most likely by self inflicted wounds with the People’s Republic of California leading the way.
Libs in their "tolerance" and moral superiority will dictate the whole world change and conform to them. (They even wave rainbow flags in Qatar). You will also drive EVs because they dictate that. Don't bother telling them their plans can't be affordable for ordinary consumers. They already know that. They tend to be part of the elite upper class who won't be severely impacted, and the lower income libs are doomsday cult sheep who refuse to see how this will impact their economic future. The rest of us will just have to make do as the libs dictate everything for "our democracy", including election outcomes. And our uniparty alternative legislators seem to be in on it as they merely make dissenting noises while twiddling their thumbs.
California just does it 1st. Remember these greedy bastards at these companies don't care where you live. They want your money too.
I was just starting to like 404a too
I have 2 properties running R22. Hope they hold on for a few more years. Have not had any problems with these units. I can still buy R22 online.
you can use a drop-in replacement like r438a. i use it all the time. works perfect and a fraction of the price
It's all about money. Last year price of 410a went up over 400%. I can guarantee the replacement will be more expensive.
Make the big manufacturers kick back to the actual company that's installing their products! We are the face the customer sees not the third-party that we have to buy from. The customer thinks we have some kind of relationship with the makers of the products 😣
We’re still seeing r22 units in 2023 so we’re gonna see 410s around for another 20 years
I do hvac for a living and still have a R22 unit and two full bottles lol.
@@cliffanderson7544 got a full bottle in my van right now 😁
R22 will outlast the 410 systems all else being equal.
Same
I was uper of r22 system, that never needed a top up in 20 years. So its very good for environment. Then compressor died and technician had no way to recover it when replacing the unit and vented it all out wtf.
I havent even heard what the new freon is going to be. Im going out and buying 20 jugs of 410A and sitting on them till the price doubles
You missed that train. I was buying it wholesale for $48 and overnight it spiked to almost $400. This happened a couple years ago. Right now it's just under 300.
33 yrs R22 Trane still rollin in rural Ia.
Time to stock up .
Where are the scientific studies showing that the new replacement refrigerants are better for the environment than R410A?
Google?
No big deal they have plenty of drop in replacements all ready 👍🏻
They may work okay in a traditional single stage system, but I don't think anything else will work properly in inverter systems like mini splits since the computers expect a certain temperature pressure relationship and won't understand why the temperatures and pressures aren't what's expected.
@@averyalexander2303 They will figure out a way to reprogram the computers or update them with new control boards if there is truly an issue.
@@christopherkidwell9817 Maybe on some systems, but certainly not all of them. Equipment manufacturers have no incentive to develop ways for you to use retrofit refrigerants in their older equipment. On many systems (like mine), there's no way to update the software. And if expensive control boards have to be replaced to use a drop in, that defeats the whole purpose of drop in replacements, which is to save money by using a cheaper product.
@@averyalexander2303 Yes, they do. Federal law on planned obsolescence would come into play here and force them to find ways to 'fix' issues like this.
@@christopherkidwell9817 Maybe where you are, but here in America, there are no laws stating that an equipment manufacturer has to design updated parts for existing equipment to make it compatible with new refrigerants. If someone chooses to use a refrigerant the system wasn't designed to use, the manufacturer is in no way responsible for any good or bad results or for coming up with solutions to problems that occur as a result. And yes, a manufacturer can void your system's warranty if you use an unapproved retrofit refrigerant that they determined caused a malfunction.
R22 still around so R410a will be here for a looooooong time to come
And condensers will be the size of a two car garage. Not to mention the A coils.
Can a R410A, system be retrofitted with R32
What refrigerant will be dictated now?
Good. It's about time.
just to get new units installed keep the money coming in always have to replace units because they're not compatible with new regulations endless cycle
It's all about the money....nothing else. People will be filling their pockets from this, including a bunch of politicians....I guarantee it.
Whose patent is running out?
I want my R-22 back. ❄️
I'm not an HVAC guy, but understand how the systems work. That said, I'm confused why they got rid of R22 to get rid of the chlorine, but its OK to have chlorine in your swimming pool and use chlorine bleach in your laundry? What is the difference? Thanks.
I miss read what you were saying. The issue is how quickly the chlorine is released from its chemical compound. In pool chlorine it's done almost instantly because of how weak the chemical bond actually is but in refrigerants like r22 the amount of UV radiation required to actually free that chlorine allows the chlorine to be released in the upper atmosphere and therefore depletes the ozone layer.
@@actually_it_is_rocket_science - Thank you! Yes that's what I read in the article. Now its clear to me why.
That chlorine in pools is different.
@@wildoutrudeboy - Pool chlorine is free unbound chlorine and can't survive the ride into the upper atmosphere. In R22 the chlorine is bound to the rest of the chemical structure and survives the ride up. UV light then busts it apart where chlorine is released and damages the ozone layer.
What do I do when I only have 2 hvac contractors that service my area and sell the exact same system? (Fujitsu) really would like to get a daikin or Bosch system but it looks like that’s impossible unless i install it myself. Any advice?
You must Live in a very small town. Usually contractors sell brands based on who the best supplier is in their area. Or at least who they feel is the best supplier. So it's possible that there's only one good supplier selling this brand and the two contractors you have, have only the one supplier
You’re probably best off getting a Fujitsu in your area. Or becoming a contractor yourself offering other brands
I say go to trade school for 2 years and become a 3rd HVAC contractor for the area!
Call me...
Fujitsu sucks balls
Can we phase out the EPA?
R410 A will be around for a long long time, we shouldn't worry about it
r22 units were bullet proof. Doesn't matter what company you went with they would last a while. But I don't know why but im in houston Tx 410a just leak more and ive changed more 410a compressors and at my house both r22 units running and working for 22 years. just changed capacitors 1 contactor and 1 fan motor other than thay never changed anything nothing changed on both furnaces still running.
Has nothing to do with the refrigerant. Has everything to do with each manufacturer skimping on build quality.
@@sprockkets Could sloppy installation practices have some bearing?
@@daw2310 it’s mostly due to improper maintenance from home owner. I’ve noticed that the premium brands tend to last longer such as American standard, Ruud. I know trane is the exact same unit and rheem is the exact same.
@@daw2310 Yes, but in the older days, the equipment was more forgiving. Today, you can't get away without doing proper vacuuming out of the line set or setting proper air flow and charge.
But most techs don't care or can't even do that right.
@@sprockkets baloney you cant tell me the higher pressure doesn't cause more leaks
Let’s hope they don’t do dry charge units. In fact, I vote they do not. The only reason they came out with those is that all the apartment owners crying, but it really was a hack. It was illegal to install one and less it had a coil that matched 13 seer And we all know that’s not where they were installed and most of these apartment owners are still just using generic refrigerant in their old are 22 units so unless the place was built recently in the last 1314 years probably don’t even need a 410 a unit lol😂
The new stuff is probably as safe as MTBE. EPA liked that stuff too.
EPA wasn't around for MTBE idiot.
Don’t forget 134a a it’s going on the wayside too❤😢😮
Is a 410 refrigerant system, can it be used in a system 420
Home owner: I have no idea what my system currently uses :) sigh..
Do the cooling coils inside the air handler also need to change when the refrigerant changes? Or only the compressors? I bought a new air handler/coil in a pinch last summer planning to upgrade the compressor to a heat pump in the next year or so.
May need a different type of expansion valve or txv, I'm sure one of these guys will let us know.
Maybe. For a flammable refrigerant like R32, I would think the coils would have to be specifically rated for that class of flammable refrigerants since a leak could be very bad and other devices like leak sensors could be required. Other than that, the coil itself should be fine as long as it is the proper size, a heat pump coil (rated for higher pressures), and the new refrigerant doesn't run at a higher pressure than 410A. I'm not sure what pressures the new refrigerants run at. The expansion device may be different though.
@@averyalexander2303 I didn't know that stuff was flammable. May as well charge it up with propane, like the old time used car dealers.
@@jthonn My concerns are about lineset placements and protection changes needed due to nails and screws etc... leaking flammable refridgerant.
@@cozccs I was just being sarcastic, but you are right about that.
Pretty sure all new AC systems sold in the EU and UK in the last couple of years have been R32.
What are they planning on replacing it with
Nothing. You vill die of heatstroke and like it.
Phase out air conditioning. Only let the strong survive!
Honestly I'm down lol
My A.C. unit still run after 22 years on R22, just curious how much is a lb of R22 going for? Thinking about refilling this summer.
I've seen 22 go for anywhere from 300-1400 for a 25lb jug over the past two years at suppliers. No clue about street price
HVAC tech here by the way - "re-filling" a system should be done once, after the leaks and potential leaks are addressed... If you are filling your system often you should seek a HVAC tech who will be honest with you about what a leak is
@@xraceboyex thanks, will be my first time reffing it
Real r22 almost cost what a new unit is. There are plenty of new blends that replace r22 for less than 400 bucks
Denver has R-420-G
R-455B Puron Advance
My Diakin mini split is R 32 which is 6 years old, refrigerator R 600 A, 7 years old, both said at the time to be more efficient alternatives to R 410 A. Am I missing something or is the U.S. slightly behind the times ?
Very.
"More efficient" is often a flat out lie. Is it "more efficient" if that system lasts 5 years instead of 45 years? Daikin equipment is some of the most over-engineered equipment I've seen in my life. I hazard to say you may have many issues
@@xraceboyex Energy efficiency comes from the type of refrigerant used along with electronic technology to vary the compressor speed, naturally this increases the complexity over a fixed speed unit.
Some argue modern cars not as reliable as ones from the past for the same reason, in some cases this may be true depending on where they're manufactured, choosing the right brand is important to ensure longevity, this applies to AC units as well.
The amount of energy consumed by an energy inefficient unit over a 45 year life span would exceed the replacement cost multiple times, depending on how much energy costs. North America lags in technology due to the low cost of energy, in other countries where the cost may be 2 to 3 times higher, energy efficiency is significantly more important to the consumer.
They ditched R410a but it's already 50% of R32 anyhow. Mini splits and window units do not have any need for brazing so having the R125 in it isn't necessary to dampen R32's flammability. It's not really due to it being "better".
What's going to happen to those of us with an existing 410a system? will we need to replace it?
No you won’t have to replace it. Get as much life out of it as you can. However, the refrigerant is going to get more and more expensive as time goes on.
@@NewHVACGuide Seems like every time this happens, it's faster and faster. R12/22 was around for nearly 1/2 a century. R410 only since 1998, and only mandated for new equipment since 2010. So barely even half as long. It's really stupid, they should put a stop to any new refrigerants, and decide on what they want to use, and mandate it be permanent. Like minimum 50 years, and no more than 2-3 types of refrigerant allowed. There was no need for even back in the bad old days, of R11, 12, 22, 502 etc. Yes you need special refrigerants for ultra low temp temp, like CO2/Ethylene cascase systems, but for air conditioning, coolers, freezers, chillers, should be able to just use 1-2 refrigerants at most. I can't see any reason for example why R404A couldn't be used for virtually anything, except for the fact it has a very high GWP.
There's no need for 14-15 different flavor of the month refrigerants, and forcing people to replace stuff over and over faster and faster is just completely bonkers. How much global warming will replacing all the hvacr systems all over the world with new flimsy unreliable flaky junk that won't last? How much trash will end up in the landfills? How much fuel and time wasted by techs having to drive twice as much and have twice as big of a truck to haul around 15 different recovery cylinders and 18 different refrigerants?
EPA's favorite thing is throwing the baby out with the bath water with all these new stupid rule makings, because they get too narrow of a focus, and fail to get the really big picture.
I'd buy a tank of 410a and have it on hand for when the time comes. A contractor will likely have it when the time comes but I'm hearing $800 to evac and recharge.
@@brnmcc01 Anybody get the similarity to computers (specifically machines running Windows) with Microsoft coming out with a new version every two or three years? Oh, they had to have new hardware because the new software required more memory to run. So, off to see your computer salesman for a new system. Over and over again. Some of the later changes like Vista to 10 and 10 to 11 had barely noticeable improvement if any. Collusion between the software makers and the hardware makers.
@@brnmcc01 Dude, we have literally 100 plus different refrigerants, and that's being conservative. What you are whining about already is a thing.
It's only the people who have no clue what they are talking about that bitch about this, because they think installing an a/c or anything else is "easy."
R22 Has gone for 15 years and yet we still can by it
in 2024, my R 22 system will be 25 years old. Should I nurse it along until the new refrigerant is widely available, or replace it with the last 421a systems?
I'm in the same boat.
i have one about that age. i always expect a unit to last 30 years or more, just do the maintenance and hope for the best
Keep it until it dies or springs a leak! R22 is a superior / more forgiving refrigerant.
@@alanm2842 This day and age, if you get 15 you got a good one.
@@holtrussell I agree, mine leaks about 3lbs a year. I have a friend that bought a bunch of 22 before it got expensive, that's how I've been limping along. If I were going to keep it, I would consider 407c or another replacement. I hear there is one you can top off with, but I am weary about mixing them.
Good I’ll be ready to retire before then❤😮
What about apartment complexes?
It’s all about money anyway I was a HVACR tech during the first refrigerant switchover and now at 53yo I am going to switch careers because I am tired of buying all the tools they claim you need for the new refrigerants. I’m Done! Going to work at a plant in maintenance
It's all about the money, I still have my original r22 system that came with my house 1998. And a spare r22 condenser factory charged in my garage, lol. I never liked 410a refrigerant, the r22 refrigerant cools better than the 410a in my opinion. I install, service, and repair HVAC-R for 20+ years, coolest trade in my eyes.
So stupid. We're still waiting in our area for ANY of the new refrigerants. They don't even have the available yet, and we're talking about bans on what we already have? This is a shit show.
Are we talking large systems or everything? Residential, Automotive, even this huge 3 year old trend of heat pump water heaters? Almost everything sold today just switched to 410a now there is already something new? I feel bad for anyone that just purchased new r410 anything to only now having to think well now I have to thinking about replacing whole..
R410s was created in 1991. Is your mind blown?
Is it true that the replacement refrigerant of 410a will have propane in it? That’s what I heard from the guy behind the counter at Trane. If that’s true, what’s that going to do to repairing a system leak? I understand you can pump it down or recover the freon but other freons have a little freon still in the oil. Can you put a torch to it?
In Canada if you want to get new refrigerant for your car (if it’s 134A), you have to replace it with R12A - which is essentially propane and butane. Sure would suck to get in a crash
Yes i believe its rated as a 2 which i think is right under propane. Im not looking forward to brazing anything that has it in it
Some modern refrigerators use it
No. It’s not propane.
That’s right don’t forget the 134a ❤😮😢a cause that’s going to
It’s not banned it’s phased out there’s a difference . The refrigerant will still be available just systems won’t be able to be made with them .
The refrigerant will be banned in new equipment which is what's noted in the video 🙂
Not sure where you have been and the pricing increase has been underway for some time. The supply chain issues are a REAL thing. Many major manufacturers are seeing lead times go to outrageous numbers. Welcome to the fall our of shutting the machine down and the record inflation that has been happening for the past year. and yes I am an HVAC supplier that is dealing with these issues first hand......
Maxitrol told me ~300 days when I was looking for a replacement mod gas valve for a warehouse MAU lol. I can attest. Also outlawed suppliers selling the solenoid by itself, which was the only thing I actually needed
I installed several ice machines that use 410a. Most water source heat pumps are 410a. It’s BS.
Last year we installed a 120 ton RTU Daikin a 15 and 10 ton carrier. RTU. All 3 are 410a.
Where is the money going?
When I had my air conditioner broke they replaced everything because it was the old r12 they put in R410 now thats bas smh
get ready to deal with an A2L refrigerants.......that is a WHOLE new mess.......
What’s the replacement for 410a? R22 has mo99
The FIRST 410A Drop-In Refrigerant HITS the Market!
ua-cam.com/video/ugUsKFxcwtY/v-deo.html
R-32?
Until they find some BS excuse to outlaw it or the patent runs out on it.
ok what would you do if it was me have a 8 year old goodman 3 ton gas pack its long been paid for to i repair the AC part if it fails do i want to buy a r 32 systeen been told the parts for r 32 are very costly and that R 32 can catch on firw or do i wait for the honney well to come out. the good nest is good man parts are cheap
Run it until you can't get parts for it anymore. In the meantime, start saving up for a replacement. Even with R22 being banned from production, there's still enough out there if you need it and there is a drop in replacement refrigerant called TdX 20, R458A manufactured by (Bluon).
Customer cost for R22 where I am at is $200 a pound on the low end and I've seen it go up to $400 a pound. Brand new jug of R22 is now $1800 the last time I checked. New jug of R458A is $500. Prices may be a little lower where you live. I live on an island in the middle of the Pacific ocean so everything costs an arm and a leg because of shipping.
Australia and other countries have already did this…. 🤦♂️👏🏼 💸
When the East Coast, West Coast an Gulf of Mexico land actually goes under 6 feet of water, I'll think about changing.
Not if the Supreme Court has anything to say about it! 😂😂😂
Sometimes making a change is created just to move money. Out of one's hip pocket to another! Just think, if Henry Ford's thoughts of keeping the "A" the same every year it would keep the price of auto's low! Henry must have been thinking down the road. GM is the company that started changing models on a yearly basis and the public fell for it! Look at the cost of cars today!
What about the 134 a in the automotive industry?😮❤
They already have the 1234 stuff
same scam, patents expired, so introduced flamable R1234YF garbage and over x10 the price
@@jimmyni8136 Oh yeah I forgot about that that’s crazy
If you are creating better alternatives all the time why would you not get them in production asap?