Oil & Electronics? the best way to cool electronics? (Experiment)
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In this video I will show you why oil and electronics can sometimes represent a useful combination. Along the way I will perform a couple of experiments with the oil in order to determine its resistance as well as its cooling capacity. Let's get started!
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Music:
2011 Lookalike by Bartlebeats
Killing Time, Kevin MacLeod
(incompetech.com)
I used to work for a company that made radar transmitter power supplies (17.5 to 24KVDC). these units were filled with transformer oil. That oil did a wonderful job of insulating and heat transfer. Oil insulated equipment is usually self healing as well. With high voltage you have to be careful about keeping a edges smooth and rounded or you can develop very high field strengths that can lead to arcing.
On one of these supplies I saw arcing in the oil when I got up to about 12KV, that arc was pretty eventful because it discharged a 0.5UF oil filled cap. I emptied the oil and examined the unit to see what was going on. There was a 7X10 inch PCB that held the bridge rectifier diodes and was held in place by that oil filled caps studs. Close examination revealed a very pointed solder tail that ended at the edge of the PCB. The field strength was such that the voltage arded through the 1/2" of oil. Once I removed that tail the arcing was stopped and the power supply passed all tests and was shipped out to the Suez canal where it may still be doing it's job.
That Suez Channel joke aged like fine wine
@@jonathandemiguel1458 can't really see any Suez Canal joke nor can see any relation of a transmitter to a stupid ship so well
you think it would work on small vtx for fpv drones?
Me: My gaming rig is now cooled by oil.
American government: FBI! OPEN UP!
This video reminded me of a German TV show I watched several years ago, in which they tested the isolation capabilities of distilled water by submerging an entire PC in the stuff, and kept it running during the whole program; at the end of the show, it just sat there, chugging away happily. :)
Transformer Oil? Is this the kind of fuel Optimus Prime is running on?
XD
Bruh
@@rumahhafidzahbekasi1354 😂
@@rumahhafidzahbekasi1354 ketemu orang bekasi disini dong XD
If I had to guess it is probably like clear mineral oil that some people have submerged their PCs in for cooling. Without the MSDS sheet is is hard to say that for sure.
"Did someone say OIL?"
- US army
Me(with thor pose): There is thorium there **evil smile**
US Army: oh sure, take your time...
Holy shit😂😂😂
Wth
Scott: hi can I buy transformer oil to cool computer down
Oil company: to cool computer down?
Scott:yees
Scott:actually cools down the transformer like a boss
*AC VOLTAGE REDUCTION TIME*
@@TheeCK1357
Am disabled
@@blackturbine am footicapped
If we do not consider dirt, it is one of the most efficient solutions :)
so, ceramic?
But isn't water the worst when dirt is involved?
i did it too here is the build log: facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1608112519206141&type=1&l=5ff7a9e4c8
@@Minoguai would consider to do this project again? Or would you not recommend it?
Dirt cools electronics too
I miss the hack series
I was honestly just thinking that too. I like the other videos, but the hack series and DIY or BUY are my favorite.
Sometimes I just wonder how many arduino do you own?
Too many
@@greatscottlab how many is too many?
@@greatscottlab You can never own too many Arduinos (Arduinoae?)
@@greatscottlab you should look into Teensy (the microcontroller) if you need more processing power/IO pins
I'm always using those little mini boards. I usually buy them 5 at a time from China, and always have at least half a dozen in stock.
I've recently started buying the ones without the USB interface (using all those CH340 chips just felt wasteful), so I do the dev work on the CH340 equipped boards, then flash a non USB board for the final project with an external CH340 or an ISP programmer.
Quick fix: When you measured that t.oil resistance with mains AC. Measured current was not through oil, but "parasitic capacitance" at tip of the leads. -> reason why it's always measured with hv dc (next project? maybe not for viewer sake :D)
*Edit note*: next line was my mishap. I mixed insulator and electrolyte in my head. Going to keep it there...
btw, electrolytic caps use this oil to increase capacity and if they had that low resistance, they were pretty useless.
Dangerous_CODE electrolytic capacitors aren't using oil, they are filled with electrolyte (water or glycol based), and the aluminium oxide makes their dielectric.
@@brys555 I just checked, thanks for correcting. I'm not sure how did I manage to mix electrolyte with insulator (completely opposite functionality). After some data mining, oil do not increase permittivity that much,. Apparently it is around 2.4 while water is 80.1 (my bad)
In the power station where I worked as an electrical fitter the 17/275kv generator transformers were cooled in two stages of coolers. The oil was cooled by towns water in one set of coolers which in turn was cooled by sea water in an adjacent cooler. There was a pressure gradient across the cooling towers with the oil at the highest pressure and the sea water at the lowest to prevent any contamination if leakage occurred. This video brings it all back!
I have used Canola or an equivalent for a good many years for high voltage transformers and capacitors (up to 25kV). To avoid problems the oil needs to be new, and de-gassed (I use a small vacuum pump and gentle heating at the same time) in addition I pre-heat the oil to 150 deg C and allow it to cool before using it. I have also used liquid paraffin.
In America, mineral oil is easy to come by, and is usually packaged with a lot of antioxidant. Mineral oil also comes in several molecular weights so that you can dial things in to your liking (in terms of flow, thermal mass, etc).
The way he pronounced Transformatorenöl made me happy.
My dad once told me that people during his childhood used to collect old transformer oil from power grid transformers and used to apply it on their knees and joints for pain relief.
Oil sticks and penetrates in the boards from what i read. So even washing the parts with alcohol it can still be oilly. Usually in pcbs such as gpus.
Also it ruins rubber and wire insulation, so people have to be carefull there
Mineral oil certainly does. Silicone oil is not as bad - it'll take longer to ruin things. Vegetable oils are all over the place, there's no consistency. The best stuff is fluorocarbon oil, non-damaging and electrically ideal, but it's crazy-expensive.
Vyl Bird Yeah, the most cheap options such as mineral oil and vegetable oil ruin it pretty easily.
Its a shame.
I, tho, will give it a try in a bad and dissassembled laptop someday.
@@eduardoavila646 I ran a mineral-oil-cooled bitcoin miner for a year. It's mostly a matter of knowing what components are going under. PCB itsself, chips, inductors, most surface mount parts, no problem. Most resistors are ok, too. But electrolytic capacitors? Bad idea. Those are not oil-proof and will eventually be damaged. Also exercise caution over wires, as the insulation can be degraded and flake off.
Vyl Bird Yeah, i've seen some bad results happening with such devices. Mainly wires being damaged, but also some capacitor damage too.
In my case, i think the motherboard has only solid state capacitors, so i dont know how it would react to the oil. But its that or trashing the laptop, wich has a really bad heatsink. Its more a experience than actually trying to make it work. If for some reason it doesnt dies, it will likelly become a server
Non of Ur business Yeah, its sad to see that. UA-cam could be a awesome tool for fiding knowledge, but there are too many miss information
Es ist lustig wenn du das Video als deutscher schaust und dann die Beschriftungen liest
Translation:
It's funny if you watch the video as a German and then read the stuff on the labels
Edit: thx for the likes
Even if that sentence is overused
FJ MC: EGO East Germany Oil
Ja genau xD
Auch viele von uns Dänen verstehen Deutsch recht gut.
@@BertGrink an deiner Satzstruktur erkennt man aber direkt dass Deutsch nicht deine Muttersprache ist :P Grammatik vollkommen richtig aber kaum jemand würde das wirklich so sagen c:
@@BertGrink Ok dann auch für Dänen
Sechspulsbrückenschaltung, Transformatoren Öl !!
Is this a new Running gag?
Ja ist es wieso fragst du? :D
Nächstes mal ist es "Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz"
Das sind eben typische deutsche Wörter. Oder halt gleich Lederhosen...
@@lukahierl9857 lederhosenknopfherstellungslizensvergeber
Is this a even fuuller bridge rectifier?
You should do a follow up on Flourient. It is a cooling fluid used by the Cray vector supercomputers from the 80s. The stuff is still available, a dielectric compound that boils at 50-60°C at 1bar. Phase change is a one-two orders of magnitude more efficient heat transfer process. Would definitely make a interesting video!
When it does boil, it's poisonous and is also good at absorbing infrared light. Maybe not a hobbyist friendly coolant.
Yes, but check out the price on the the stuff.
Heat pipe... DIY or buy? could use some low cost low BP liquid like cigarette lighter butane (ok butane has some obvious drawbacks)
@@joinedupjon Propane is pushing its way as a "low global warming potential" refrigerant, and is fairly cheap and has relatively good thermal properties. It would, however, have to be held at a significantly higher pressure than atmospheric for use as coolant, rendering it more-less uneconomical for the "home gamer" (ca 12 bar(a) for a boiling temperature of 35°C). N-Butane and iso-Butane would be a great choice since they would require a 2 bar overpressure for a 35°C boiling point. There's the also the flammability issue, naturally. There is a refrigerant called R245fa - boils at 35°C at 1 bar(g). Also R123 boils at 27°C at 0 bar (g) but is prohibited for use. No warranty for electrical equipment. As for Flourient - F-72 maybe could work
multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuUn_zu8lzU94xtxoYtGNv7zg17zHvu9lxUb7SSSSSS--
@@no-defun-allowed But with LEDs you get colorful bubbly computers. It's worth it :P
Could the AC current in the oil just be capacitance?
I bet it is. Would have been interesting to see it on a scope.
Indeed, grab a scope and frequency generator and lets have a look.
The main job of transformer oil is to stop thousands of volts, so ya, parasitic capacitance is tiny due to low frequency voltage. Here's an equivalent circuit of a transformer
duckduckgo.com/?q=transformer+parasitic+capacitance&t=h_&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fr7knmqt3qn1hbgxc30yrat1a.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Ftypical-transformer-parasitic-elements.jpg
Of course it's capacitance, the question is whether the oil makes more or less capacitance than air. (Probably more)
@@thewhitefalcon8539 Hydrocarbons have just over twice the dielectric constant (relative permittivity) as air, so double the parasitic capacitance I think.
We used deionised water to run through the heatsinks of thyristor stacks with 34.5kv across each stack in delta. The stack length was about 2 metres with 34.5kv end to end with water running through the middle of the heatsinks.
Most people don't realise water is a great insulator if it is purified and deionised. It's something you have to see to believe.
The Transformatorenoel has high oxidation resistance. Been using it in the deep fryer for over six months now.
Awesome ! thanks for sharing . I didn't realize oil has such a low conductivity .
2:20 i love how you say transformatoren öl 😂
It would be awesome if you could compare the transformer oil to silicone oil.
The reason is because transformer oils are typically made from mineral oil and they contain solvents making them highly flammable given the right conditions. Silicone oil, while more expensive, is much less flammable.
3:50 you measured the capacitive reactance of the setup, not the resistance. The current would have been zero if you used DC at any voltage below its breakdown.
Oil is not good sometimes because its high dielectric constant actually increases the capacitance among nearby conductors for some reason. Being a better barrier than air, that doesn't make sense to me, but there it is. So, oil is not good for high speed, sensitive, oscillating circuits. It will detune resonators/filters and leak some signal current around.
If you dunk a motherboard, cellphone or radio in it, likely it will stop working, or malfunction non-destructively. A slow circuit will be fine.
Edit: (10 months later lol) -a more sensitive and/or high speed circuit can function properly if it's designed with larger spacing or to be specifically used in oil, in which case, a few of them may not function optimally without the dielectric or cooling properties of the specific oil it's designed for.
Hello GreatScott! I am not sure but I think what also influences the heat dissipation is not alone the specific heat capacity but the product of specific heat capacity times specific mass. If that is correct, for the (not so realistic but simplified) case where there would be no flow ( = no convection), you can add a scaling factor of ca. 1000 for the product c*rho between air and the other two liquids. But of course, there is flow and convection.
Thanks for the great videos!
If you add a fan or some sort of stirrer to the oil, it works much better. The viscosity of the oil slows down the thermal currents keeping the warm oil near the resistor. Stirring the oil moves the warm oil away and cool oil moves in to better cool the electronics.
Can you do variable frequency drive video please?
It is on my to do list
I woud alsow like a video on the other type of VFD, a vacuum flourecent display
I also would like to see a video with the variable frequency generator
I have been thinking about putting a VFD in a sealed oil system to protect it from grinding dust for a 2x72 belt grinder. Was pleased to see this video. Makes me feel less crazy for thinking it.
Thanks a ton from the bottom of my heart for these experiments :)
We all can learn a lot.
*Just put ice on top*
Put the pc in a refrigerator ......
Refrigerators are humid
@@LoganDark4357 Yeah you're right, it's better to put ice on top
Came to learn electronic related things, and learned german words as a bonus.
Awesome!
This guy has grabbed my attention yet again.
I think the only word you got wrong here was that when you said "professional" in the intro it should have been "professionally". I can hardly imagine how hard it must be to speak in a language that isn't your native one, so all being considered I'm very impressed!
Put your hands up if you know the satisfying ka-chunk of operating an ABB oil filled ring main unit :) Cool video GreatScott, you cover some really interesting topics.
Some other thing(s) immersion in oil does:
1) it *can* keep water and other contaminates *out* of your circuit.
2) it *can* keep the effects of pressure out of your equipment.
about 15 years ago, i made an oil-PC after i saw an article about an oil-PC at toms hardware.
Back then it was just a Duran 1,3GHz, 384MB SD-Ram (100MHz) with a MSI Geforce 4 TI 4200 64MB.
I had nearly no money, so i couldnt afford expensive mineral oil. I used the cheapest vegetable oil.
It really worked and looked cool. Also the temperature didnt get too hot. But overall it was pretty messy. After months i "drained " it, because it needed too much space and replacing anything on the mainboard was a nightmare.
what you do is get a air conditioner and submerge the cold condenser in the oil along with the board, Linus did a similar build and actually reworked the cold condenser with a CPU heatsink right in the line of the AC problem was water condensation on the board but if the board was submerged in transformer oil that would no longer be an issue
3:12
*_Me : Hey, what are for the starters ?_*
*_Waiter : 15 Volts DC Voltage :p_*
I don't know how hard it is to get, but when I work for the US Army Pulse Power Laboratory we use Shell Diala Oil. We were working with some very high voltages and never had a problem...at least not one that was related to the oil :-)
I used to work with high voltage power supplies that would put out more than 200 thousand volts. We used this type of oil to insulate and cool the supply. The high voltage would generate electrostatic waves that would circulate the oil around the components. On some models there was also a pump and a radiator. Many large X-ray machines use this type of system. Even the X-ray tube, which gets very hot, was submerged to remove waste heat. So I don't think you will have any problem keeping your Arduino cool with this method.
Are those the silent wing 3's I see, and the dark tower pro? Very nice build!
I'm from Cuba, I have done that with one Computer server PC made by me, i used recicled transformer oil, my friends laughed, hello from Cuba!!!
I learn so much from your videos please never stop uploading!!!!
Last question... if you provide flow to the oil, by how much does it improve its cooling capabilities?
Full Bridge Rectifier Squad
I always hit the like button first then i stared watching your video. Cos i know the video is gonna be awesome.
Just one thing: IC chips are designed to be used in air, in the sense that, in the event of a voltage spike, a spark is created in a specially designed component that is exposed to the air. The current goes through the arc instead of going through the circuit. So if you operate them under oil, they will be more sensitive to voltage spikes.
The proper(mainly used) computer cooling choice is either distilled water for liquid cooling or mainly mineral oil for full submersion.
2:19 German inbetween sounds so funny
Kannst du vielleicht mal ein Video auf deutsch machen? Also es macht mir nicht's aus wenn nicht ich kann denglisch ziemlich gut :D aber es würde mich doch mal interessieren ;-)
Never expected oil to cool electronics! Great video once again!
Yes I seen some mineral oil builds that worked perfectly and never overheated.
Like TRANSFORMATORENÖL xD
2:21 Transformatoren Öl ? Nice,I love it!
Bella riflessione sul futuro del raffreddamento, sicuro prolunghera la vita dei componenti
Cooking oil, that has been heated to 200c for a while (to remove water content) can be used for electronics too
I always use Bremsenreiniger for cooling my electronic components. It's a lot more liquid than water and can heat desapeat much better with this. And the best is, it's boiling at 80C. So no components can go higher before al of the liquid is gone. Also with this you can see where is for example a short in your sircuit.
Sorry for bad English
That works? Might have to take a look at that.
Water is much better for cooling than oil of any kind. DI water is used for cooling in high power electronic circuits. It is used inside transformer windings, as the windings are copper tubing not solid conductors, as the tubing is cooled with moving water. The connections are done with PVC hose that is reinforced with nylon braid.
canola/rape seed cooking has a high water content when fresh, it can be dried by heating to +200c, then once dry and cool will still turn rancid, but will run a non hdi diesel engine....
My fav board coating, adhesives, 2 part dollar store epoxy or UHU
A rubber band might hold the temperature probe on and in contact, as it applies pressure and does not use adhesive.
Great videos, as always. Thank you.
Absolutely love your videos man. Keep up the good work!
rapeseed oil has some unpleasant effects on some materials used in electronics manufacturing, setting aside the rancidity issues; mineral oil is a safer bet, and is usually packaged with powerful antioxidants in quantities that would be dangerous for food oils. It is also generally easier to come across good general purpose mineral oil, and it is safe to handle without gloves (assuming it's food/pharma grade oil).
Great video again, just one small detail : the dielectric constant is not directly linked with resistivity.
Just like with watercooling in a pc, it's obvious that oil will perform better than air, mainly because 7-10 minutes is not enough to saturate the oil/water
Maybe try to do the same test/experiment but for longer and with more probes across the tank, that would be more representative on a real usage scenario
Mineral oil is a cheap effective insulator and cooling solution, at least in the U.S.A it can be found in drugstores it's used as a laxative and usually comes in pure mineral oil form.
In drugstores? Sounds awesome.
You forgot to mention, that Oils, especially once that are meant for electronics, have the tendency to break down certain plastics, also often used in computers. So while you can submerge your PC in it, you have to choose your components very carefully, so that the parts you submerge don't break
What if you use on a ''watercooler'' loop?
At my old institute in Bonn they used "Petroleum" for cooling the PDP11 computers.
Hey, I think the AC mains conducts a little current through the oil by parasitic capacitance between the two wires than by the oil resistance alone.
light bulb grease has been out for years, its applied to the electrodes, to keep your bulbs and sockets from overheating causing burn and hard removal.
Don't submerge a hard disk in it. Hard disk drive enclosures allow air in and out since the magnetic heads require an air cushion to prevent them from scratching the disk platter surfaces.
Awesome video. I learn a lot watching this channel.
I recently overclocked my i7 on a stock fan thankfully no processor was damaged. But this video sounded satisfying.
Your hand writing..... Eye-gasm 😱
Got this video right at the moment. I want to liquid cool a medium size double resonant solid state Tesla coil but i fear the plastics on ICs or rubber seals on the pump may get attacked by oils. I can only found that castor oil does not deteriorate rubber(flourinert from 3M is too expensive to count)
When you showed the cables touching and coming apart at 0:42, a glitch that very rarely happens with Windows 10/My keyboard happened, which turned the volume down gradually to 0 in sync with as you moved the cables further apart. For a moment I thought you had intentionally set it up so your mic went through those cables, and somehow got it so the audio signal faded as you moved them away from one another to demonstrate the resistance of oil. I realised soon enough that it would stop as soon as you separated them, but it got me for a moment. Seemed like it was a very cool effect in that moment though.
7:47 "PCB content: unverifiable" Does that mean the seller DOESN'T KNOW if it has PCBs?
In German it states „nicht nachweisbar“, which probably either means, that there was no PCB found in the oil, or it couldn‘t be tested.
So, now....
Should I dip my desktop in Transformer Oil to get better performance..??
Some T R A N S F O R M A T O R E ÖL is always good , recomend waching a video by LTT. From experience : oil pcs require a lit of ace and mainteneace
Very curiuos about HEMP OIL
HEMP SEED oil
Older videos mention different
Conductivity/ farads
How would graphene, foil react to these different mediums?
Heat capacity is important but the difference is likely due to different viscosities and convective currents.
Like he said you wouldn’t actually use regular kitchen oil to cool a pc, you would most likely use mineral oil as it is also non conductive. One thing to note is that it does break down plastics so connectors and in some cases stickers can just break off.
Specific heat capacities are not relative here. Because not same mass surrounds the resistor. These fluids have different densities, especially air, so you should calculate heat capacity for e.g. 1m3 of fluids and than compare them. Plus you should not disrupt fins when mounting the thermal sensor, and it should be in surface, not surrounded with fluid.
Mineral oil is the most common type for PC cooling... But it's super uncommon to do oil cooling in the first place. Most people who don't do air will do liquid loop cooling. Mineral oil PCs are pretty cool, but you run the risk of accidentally insulating, say, the inside of PCIe slots or DIMM slots, making it problematic to replace/upgrade hardware. You also have to make sure you keep it clean, or else it can become conductive overtime, like distilled water can become regular water when exposed to contaminants.
I watched a similar experiment about 10-15 years ago by some guys in a bulgarian computer service. They dunked almost the entire PC, except the HD and the power supply. They used sunflower oil, which is the most common cooking oil. Was absolutely hilarious to me then, but it works!
opasno.com/reviews.php?read=11 - It is in bulgarian, but the pics are there, and google translate might do a decent job on it if you really wanna read it.
Thank you for this knowledge and for everything you do for us
Wenn das Öl auf Erdölbasis ist kann es Gummidichtung wie die von Kondensatoren auflösen , ich nutze z.B Silikonöl für die Kühlung von Netztilen und Servern. Silikonöl löst keine Kunstoffe an .
There's plenty of situations where oil and electronics go well together. Frying bacon on your induction cooktop is one of them!!! 😋😋😋
Wouldn't adding some thermal paste on the temperature probe while attaching it on the surface give better measurements?
you should watch linus tech tips series on this. in the end it worked but there are a lot of side effects that can be major problems
In the 80s the UK television program called Tomorrow's World submerged a CRT TV in a tank of liquid dielectric. Strange to think it was safer than being in air.
That's the kind of video that i like. Keep it up !
You can have a look at Novec, from 3M, an immersion cooling fluid used for data centers.
Water also has a very high thermal conductivity for a liquid, no most other normal liquid don't even come close. This is also one of the reason why water stays a bit cooler
Overclocking-enthusiasts wouldn't use oil, they would use liquid nitrogen
Try it with beer!!! 😃
(I mean, drinking beer, of course.)
Scott thil this day you did not build a mesur logger?? (or like mine you disambled for a other projekt)
Agreed! +1
Why did you start with cooking oil? I've heard that mineral oil is what should be used for cooling a PC in oil cooling.
Johnson's Baby Oil is 99,9% mineral oil. Available in every supermarket. I use it for condensators. As an advantage, magic smokes smell better ;-)
It's interesting the oil underperformed next to water in Nikola Tesla's book explains using boiled out linseed oil as a coolant for his homemade coils explaining that oxygen molecules is what created the Heat vibrating from the fluctuation of AC current and inductance. Is that theory true or just early experimentation into AC currents?
Try out silicone oil, it do not attack that many things around that other oils do, and it do not get old and smelly as many other oils do.
Hey GreatScott, please make a video on nfc tag circuit and how to make them.