Nononono you're completely missing the point. The point is that armor shred items are the better investment than building damage. It doesn't have to be crippling headshot, crippling headshot is just used as an example equivalent to glass cannon. There is hunter's aura which gives 27% bullet resist shred simply by just existing around the enemy. And there's magic shred armor stuff too.
@@Awootistic its very very good to have, point well made. there's only a few sources of shred though. so if you really want shred, you have to fulfill some kind of special requirement like headshot or being in close range. So its not easy to compare directly to straight up damage
years of playing Warframe have prepared me for how to build weapons correctly in this game. You always want to diversify your DPS sources for best results. I think resist shred is sooo valuable in Deadlock because their are so few sources of it. 24% reduction on CHS is actually insane lmao.
@@iTzTiMeToJuMp their are more raw damage items then Serration (Heavy Caliber) and you could just stack Serration with 7 elemental mods which would also be non-optimal. When I was a new player I used to stack magazine size with fire rate on my guns lol, how to build guns is not obvious in that game.
I agree with the warframe thing, I used to play a lot of warframe a few years ago and I remember this youtuber made this tool to run through every permutation of a weapon build to maximize the dps and those builds often were a mix of shred, fire rate and weapon damage.
"Years of playing starcraft has prepared me to properly use the right kart combination in mario kart." The 2 games you mentioned not only have nothing to do with 1 another, but they're not even the same genre. It's not because it's good in warframe that it's gonna be good in deadlock. What kind of logic is that?? LOL
If they ever nerf crippling I’ll be so sad I feel like tankiness is already so good and crippling sort of stands on its own as the best tank buster in my opinion.
@ Great video by the way. Any other key tank busters that come to mind for you? Also is there any particular counter play to crippling? If tanks notice the enemy team is specing into resist penetration how should they respec or how should they consider adapting otherwise?
@@zacherywagner1189 building large health amounts is a somewhat decent counter to resist shredders. It basically makes that part of their build less effective. Or just kill them faster.
You say a few times that theres no case where its better to take glass cannon over crippling headshot. But you also said that crippling headahot increases the whole team's damage against the marked target. So if a few of your teammates go cripplling headshot, i feel like you can pick up glass cannon (or something else) and calitalize on the effects of BOTH Items, no?
Resistances can go in the negative by the way so resistance shreds are always good even against targets that don't have armors. Also, stacking escalating exposure (full stacks) + crippling headshot + spirit strike is equal to 100% effective spirit shred on any character with the all spirit resistances in the world.
You still get some use out of it, but it's weaker the less resist the target has. 25% shred on 0% resist target = -25% resist = 25% more total damage 25% shred on 50% resist target = 25% resist = 50% more total damage
I think items and builds are something a majority of gamers push to the side due to learning curve. People just use pre-made builds that are popular or trending. I think you would do a lot of people justice to continue doing these videos and go in depth, per character, on how to properly build situationally! Maybe a series with the first video going over a majority of the items and possible use cases. Every other video after that can be a specific character and how to build them based on general factors of an enemy team!
I did that for a long time with both LoL and DOTA but in this game the items are literally called, "Duration Extender", "Extra Regen", "Extra Spirit". It's 100x easier than the other big MOBAs to learn itemisation (and really rewarding with the current diversity 80% of heroes have). I know it's in Alpha and the names might change, also that there are a few traps, but I really like the simplicity of the current system. It's not too hard to learn for each hero if you understand the items. For this reason I'd advocate for just the video on all the items. For content reasons obviously making a video per hero is a no-brainer.
love your vids, this is soooo useful. i'm about 100hrs in and basically have never stopped to really think about any of this. however (and this might just be me) your constant movement and wiggling around as Kelvin made me motion sick lol. I don't think i've ever had a video do that to me, so in a way it's actually pretty impressive
i’m still working on my itemization in this game; i feel like i’ve sort of started to grasp how to build vitality items, but my decision-making for gun items still feels pretty nebulous. spirit items seem more utility-focused than damage focused, so i find that i can usually build according to which effects and stats i need, but i don’t really know how spirit power itself works or how much spirit power is supposed to be a lot, or equates to how much damage, etc. i started off by playing a lot of pocket but i’ve moved away from him after all of the nerfs and playstyle changes, and i’ve been playing a lot of lady geist and warden, who are hybrid characters who focus on both gun weapon and spirit damage (so does pocket i suppose), and i feel like this has really helped me to get a better understanding of all three item categories. i opt for more gun-focused playstyles on both heroes, as i feel that they have enough spirit damage with just a few spirit items that weapon damage and resists are more useful for them. i used to build a lot more spirit items on lady geist, but the character felt a lot more squishy and less consistent before i started indexing more for weapon and vitality. i don’t really have any plans to try a spirit warden build though.
Glass cannon doesn't actually suck all that much, it's just one of those "Win harder" items. If you haven't been killing, or your team is playing from behind, or you've been dying in teamfights pretty consistently, it's not the right item for that situation.
Win more strategies usually are subtle misplays. If you are simply better than your opponent, then it doesn't really matter what you build. In a competitive match up against comparable skills, the risk is simply to great
0:50 not sure you've said anything about haze's scenario ? or did I miss it ? I'd like to know more about how to properly build damage on haze please :D
Yeah I was looking too. I think in haze’s case he was going to say that fire rate matters most, then resist shred, lastly weapon damage. This is because haze’s base gun damage is so low that multiplying it by anything basically doesn’t do shit. Her main damage comes from her fixation. Which means that target’s resistance to her bullets goes down when she hits that target and gets stacks on them. Basically the result is that hitting two base damage bullets on someone does a lot more damage than one bullet with a damage multiplier in pretty much all scenarios. S Basically anything that increases fire rate and allows her to hit more bullets in the same amount of time will end up doing exponentially more damage than building for weapon damage multipliers. So building as much fire rate as possible and a few resistance shredding items seems to be optimal for her, ignoring items that increase damage but don’t give fire rate or resist shredding. That is my current understanding, but I was hoping to confirm if I was correct on that front from Smeefu.
@@DamdyPirate TRUE, though i do think glass cannon is a bit overkill for objective damage, don’t really need more than intensifying mag if you’re going for nuking obj
Quick question: How do I set up multiple Dummies with different resistances? And will the resistance of an enemy will go negative if you buy resist shredder while the enemy does not have resistance?
just spawn in a bot, and then hold tab and press take control while looking at the bot, then buy items. second question, i say it in the video but yes shredders do take enemies into minus.
1) in sandbox mode u can create multiple enemies(allies) with a help of testing tools menu to the right top corner of ur screen 2) if it's negative resistance, ur gonna do additional damage of the same percentage as negative resistance, if they have -24%, ur overall damage is 124% compared to no negative resistance
I’d love to see crippling headshot in comparison to frenzy + bullet reduce shredder. When I build googun, I tend to go for frenzy late game since I’ve already bought BRS and I’m also looking for an ammo increase. I usually treat crippling HS as an ultra late game buy but this it’s pretty intriguing to think maybe I can go decay + crippling headshot in games that I don’t have a enough slots/souls to build toxic bullets + bullet reduce shredder before frenzy
fyi kelvin’s gun has less damage on headshot, you can see in the stat screen that he has -15 crit reduction, this might affect the math a bit so maybe bad as an example hero for showing this off
Someone else asked it, but it's important to know if the Crippling Headshot debuff can stack multiple times from multiple teammates. If not, that changes things unless you're a solo gank machine all game. The soul/bullet resist shredder are early mid game items. Likely before much or any resist on the enemy team. Does the damage math check out as them being better than similar cost damage items at that point in the game of no enemy resists? Fire rate doesn't translate to straight dps increase the way weapon damage does, unless you're completely cutting out reload time by consistently instant quicksilver reload or always killing the target with the first mag. As soon as you start factoring in a single reload, fire rate loses value to weapon damage. I feel it should receive slight consideration that Hunter's Aura and Crippling Headshot's resist debuffs have zero PvE value. This is a pedantic nerd point I'm about to make, but "diminishing returns" has been misused forever when calculating bonuses in MOBAs, or all games in general. It means you start receiving less flat benefit per factor of production or investment. If every 1000 souls got you +10 dps up to +100, whereupon every 1000 additional souls got you +8 dps, THAT would be diminishing returns. It does not mean that every extra +10 is less important the higher your total dps gets. There's another math term for the point when increasing a DIFFERENT factor is the better payoff...but it's slipping my mind at the moment. It's not diminishing returns though.
Also those generic shreds are 12%, you'd be shocked just how easy it is to get 12% resists from basic 500 items man. Loads of them come with 6%+ resists on them
@@DjNaste You always get SOME value out of shreds, but it's less the lower their resists are. Taking someone from 0 to -10% is only half the benefit as taking someone from 50% to 40%. I'm just wondering if the math makes the value of shred items really that much better than the other damage options at the earlymid point in the game when everyone is running around with 0-15% resist. And does shred even work at all for PvE? I know Hunter's Aura and Crippling Headshots doesn't. That's another HUGE factor to consider when pushing or jungling earlymid. Shred might only be the best option if you're going for a mid gank build.
An infinetely easier way of describing resist shredders would be that it increases the total dmg of your weapon by X%. Also idk if it's a bug or smthn but the dps calc on the GC dps test is not right whatsoever, because it was most definetely not doing 250 average dps, especially since if it really was doing more weapon dmg than crippiling headshot while also giving more firerate, it should objectively be dealing more dmg
:update: I just tested myself and GC max stacks outdoes CH in both instances. Additionally, the moment bullet shred resist is introduced with both GC and CH, GC had a almost 50% dps lead. Ultimately, early game should be focused around stacking your base dps by getting items with both weapon dmg and fire rate (because they both contribute the same amount to the base dps of the gun) THEN mid-late game should introduce resistance shredding as this will MULTIPLY the dmg at the END of dmg calc. Furthermore, items like lucky shot are basically 80% resist shredders 30% of the time (aka it is dealing roughly 25% more total dps on average from just the effect alone).
That's only true if the target starts at 0% resists. Otherwise, you calculate it by how much more damage is getting through after shredding. 25% shred to bring 0% -> -25% = 25% more damage 25% shred to bring 75% -> 50% = 100% more damage
@@dorpth that is not how math works what so ever. In fact that calc actually just proves my point. 25% - any number of bullet resist including already negative bullet resist is stil 25% more dmg bruh. The only way it would be more is if there was an item that gained more shred based on enemy resist. Such an item doesn't exist.
@@theepicgameboss It does not increase the total damage of your weapon by x%. If you increased your total weapon damage X by 100% against a 99% resist target, you would deal 1% of X*2. If you shredded 99% of resist, you would deal 100% of X damage, or 100 times more. Shredders increase your total damage output variably depending on the resistances of the target.
@@soffa93 true, but ultimately if I am doing 100 base dmg and I shred 25 bullet resist I am going to be dealing 25 extra dmg no matter what. It's not magically multiplying my damage by 100% just bc he has 50% bullet resist. Yes if it hypothetically gets that high the dmg difference will be significant but the way he frames it (and my problem with the whole thing) makes it seem like bullet shred is doing waaaay more than it actually is. 25 dmg is 25 dmg bro. Plus, resist shred scales harder based on how much weapon dmg u are doing to begin with, dealing 120 weapon dmg with 12% resist shred will 90% of the time be better than 40 weapon dmg with 25% shred.
he’s one of the more complicated heroes to build imo, but i think gun-focused builds are probably better than spirit builds as they tend not to fall off as hard in the lategame.
@@eebbaa5560good point on him being one of the most complicated to build right now I actually go tanky bruiser lash with pretty good success playing around mid Oracle. Gun Lash just feels like a worse Vindicta imo.
@@eebbaa5560 Spirit lash in medium MMr is the best, as ur absoloutly shreding your enemies all game long, and at end game your just playing off your ulti.
Best case scenario is someone else with high survivability go for CH and you still get GC. I would argue the less health debuff doesn't matter much if you survive by lifesteal which is most of late game build right now.
Can we have a tier list of itens in the next video? I thought would be awesome, most of the builds i take online isn't that good, trying to make my builds instead.
I need to start building fire rate on Mirage. I personally never see anyone else do it but after this video I’m tempted to give it a try. I mainly build gun mirage with a bit of spirit for djinn mark
fire rate not good for mirage as the djinns mark stack isn’t based on bullets hit but on a timer so you won’t be able to get high stacks and spirit burst damage if you’re constantly out of ammo/ reloading
@ortuhs that's true, but fire rate is just generically good at increasing gun DPS. Just because you can't stack marks quicker doesn't mean they won't die faster.
@@DjNaste i may have misread his original comment i thought he wanted to go for a gun build with some djinns mark focus as well but yea could be interesting to try
@smeefu yeah against them, like what is typically the best option. It felt like toxic bullets was far and above siphon, but after the recent nerfs/buffs I'm not so sure any more
Ngl I've often bought glass cannon when my brain has been blank and I've just went ''need more damage quick'', as a new player its enlightening to see actual testing that proves to my monkey brain big number does not indeed always mean better, especially considering the team aspects of shredding enemies.
Does Crippling Headshot from multiple teammates stack? If not, then IMO the case for Glass Cannon is if you already have 2-4 teammates with Crippling Headshot, and you're building (pun unavoidable) glass cannon late game carry Haze, maybe it makes sense to take GC over CH.
Stacking damage resist has diminishing returns, so my question is does that non-linear formula apply to shred as well, or is your resist just nonexistent when people build shred properly?
Follow up question, have you tested to see if something like spirit resist shredder will stack when two different teammates shoot the same target? I imagine not, but it makes me wonder how multiple mystic vulns, escalating exposures, etc. might interact with each other
I think it is a very unfair comparison to not mention just how conditional crippling headshot is compared to glass cannon. I'm just going out on a limb here, but I would imagine the vast majority of the playerbase up to eternus 6 and including eternus 6 does not hit headshots as the majority of their damage. I'm only 9 minutes into the video so far, perhaps he goes over better arguments later. But realistically you'd want to look at sustainable damage, not completely idealized damage meeting conditions that are not realistic to upkeep.
You’ve just gotta grind out a higher mmr then. Haze is really easy to counter unless your teammates just feed her the whole game in which case there’s not much you can do. Higher ranks she’s not much of a problem
@@TweakerBobfor real at this point, I'm highly inclined to just make my teammates switch so I can deny and waste Haze's time, I didn't even realize before it was too late that my team was just feeding a Haze kills. Compare that to when you're Vindicta and continuously deny her both souls, objectives and kills.
if u had bullet resist shredder and u think u can stack 3-4 glass canon stacks glass canon is way better but otherwise crippling hs better if u buy this items ur first or second tier 4 items if ur ahead going glass canon way better if u behind crippling way better
lucky shot comes with negatives too… 1. it doesn’t multiply headshot damage, even if you are headshotting. 2. the stats on the item suck. 3. you are relying on RNG. these 3 things together make the item pretty damn bad on anyone who doesn’t interact with it in a special way, like haze for instance applies an extra fixation stack when lucky shot procs so she gets extra value
@@ChristopherWD sorry, her fixation ability gives her weapon damage as an on hit effect, which means building fire rate is by far the best way to increase damage as haze :)
I noticed this as well. He swapped from DPS for the first items to individual headshots (on an item built for headshots), almost ignoring that the items are balanced around the other stats, like attack speed. The DPS of Glass Damage is indeed higher and the takeaway of this video should be about counter picking items, not the click bait title.
@@dizmog yep I agree, looking at dps is the way not the other way around. And also by doing that you see how dps is higher with maxed glass canon and no counter pick resistance, which indicates how op is glass canon imo, the problem is that dps is only one variable, that -15% is crazy in a real game and getting all stacks is not easy neither garanteed
i do like how you emphase that bullet armor does matter in some cases, but have you tried buying glass cannon on haze? since she only need passive to do dmg usually haze is max firerate build. so her wep damage is actually quite low. you can say intensify mag does the same but haze usually can get fed on kills to stack up the GC stack, and you just beam them late game with the 130%wep bonus. just try it its actually crazy ;3
to be honest i like the thinking but i am never buying an item that lowers my health by 15% on an already squishy hero, at that point if you are winning games its not the item you are just better haha
@@smeefu isn't that logic inheritnly flawed? you said it yourself, percentage based items work better when a value is higher. If anything you would want to run an item than reduces a percentrage of your health on a low health character no?
@@theepicgameboss You have to consider burst damage thresholds. While the AMOUNT of health reduction is smaller on a low HP hero, if you are at that low health there's a good chance you are near a threshold where a burst from a Talon 1 or similar would bring you to 10% health. If you reduce below that point, you are making yourself more oneshottable. A higher health hero, while having a technically higher HP penalty, may not be put underneath scary burst threshold like that by a 15% decrease.
@@jehreetv that's just true for any hero with a high and low health pool. The only difference is that you kill people faster and you die faster. Plus, high hp heroes that take it can now be put into those burst threshholds easily when other wise it would be a challenge. Overall 15% max hp on the characters that will actually use GC isn't that impactful. Being "more oneshottable" doesn't mean anything because you are still oneshottable. Plus with soul leads being a thing and every match be different depending on enemy comp, souls, items, etc, there is no definitive "breakpoints" to change. Might as well just do a shit load more dmg
Actually to elaborate because I feel like yapping... Imagine there's a burst damage ability that does 1300 damage. Now imagine 2 heroes: - 10k hp -> 8.5k hp with GC (lost 2.5k) - 3khp -> 2550 hp with GC (lost 450) the first hero lost much more health than the second, but against instances of burst damage of the amount of 1300 it looks like: - 10k hp: 8 bursts before GC to kill, 6 after - 3khp: 2 bursts before GC to kill, 1 after The first character had an effective reduction in health vs. those bursts of 25% The second character? a 100% reduction haha Those are really specific examples, I know, but I just mean to show that numbers can be misleading.
Videos I want to see? Potato aimers build guides - builds for heroes that ignore the requirement of clicking heads, assuming that there is a 50/50 chance the bullet will land on the enemy hero... yes this is personal :( I used to be good at shooters but now im washed
i mean bro im glad you have commented because i cant actually imagine a worse thing to do than that, there HAS to be a better item to replace hahahaha intensifying is like the best possible value damage increase item
@ oh I know intensifying is super good value but it’s not like I get glass cannon often, only in games where they go too long and I have no other buys. By that point I have colossus so it offsets the negative hp effect and at minimum its 88% dmg + 10% fire rate vs maximum 94% dmg + 25% ammo. 3s ramp up time vs instant dmg, personally I just think it’s better later on, it’s not something I would buy earlier than the 45min mark if games ever go that long.
Super late you're not going to build that many stacks unless you're already ahead. Glass cannon is good only if you're way ahead in mid game and building the 7 stacks and is super easy but crippling is probably way better late game because of resist shredding as everyone is tanky super late.
It’s clear smeefu doesn’t understand the math here. I can make a video to explain but at no point did he try to explain WHY a target with armor receives more damage the more armor they have relative to a static resist remover. It’s arithmetic but it’s worth explaining. Haven’t made a video in ages but I haven’t come across a single person that actually understands it :)
@@ilevitatecs2 i mean i did explain exactly why, it’s clear you have not watched the whole video. i stated that someone with 75% resistances when shredded by static 25% will then be taking 100% more damage, whereas someone with less armour will not be taking 100% more damage upon being shredded 25%. hope this helps!
@@Michael-pi1lh what? what are you talking about? how would this make a difference? you don’t have to hit every single shot on the head for crippling headshot to work, just every so often, the debuff duration isn’t 0.1 seconds lol
assumes im gonna hit headshots in a teamfight
Headshots are better for shotgun characters like Yamato Abrams or MO & KRIIIILLL
you could also use it if you are going for a high fire rate build
fucking right????
all the headshot items have a cooldown or debuff duration, meaning you only need one every now and then to get value from them
Nononono you're completely missing the point. The point is that armor shred items are the better investment than building damage. It doesn't have to be crippling headshot, crippling headshot is just used as an example equivalent to glass cannon. There is hunter's aura which gives 27% bullet resist shred simply by just existing around the enemy. And there's magic shred armor stuff too.
@@Awootistic its very very good to have, point well made. there's only a few sources of shred though. so if you really want shred, you have to fulfill some kind of special requirement like headshot or being in close range. So its not easy to compare directly to straight up damage
years of playing Warframe have prepared me for how to build weapons correctly in this game. You always want to diversify your DPS sources for best results. I think resist shred is sooo valuable in Deadlock because their are so few sources of it. 24% reduction on CHS is actually insane lmao.
Well warframe also forces you to diversify because you cant use 8x serration
@@iTzTiMeToJuMp their are more raw damage items then Serration (Heavy Caliber) and you could just stack Serration with 7 elemental mods which would also be non-optimal. When I was a new player I used to stack magazine size with fire rate on my guns lol, how to build guns is not obvious in that game.
@@iTzTiMeToJuMp even if you ran 8 serrations, you still will do less than actual builds with diversity of stats.
I agree with the warframe thing, I used to play a lot of warframe a few years ago and I remember this youtuber made this tool to run through every permutation of a weapon build to maximize the dps and those builds often were a mix of shred, fire rate and weapon damage.
"Years of playing starcraft has prepared me to properly use the right kart combination in mario kart." The 2 games you mentioned not only have nothing to do with 1 another, but they're not even the same genre. It's not because it's good in warframe that it's gonna be good in deadlock. What kind of logic is that?? LOL
If they ever nerf crippling I’ll be so sad I feel like tankiness is already so good and crippling sort of stands on its own as the best tank buster in my opinion.
100% agreed, love making tanks squishy with this shit.
@ Great video by the way. Any other key tank busters that come to mind for you? Also is there any particular counter play to crippling? If tanks notice the enemy team is specing into resist penetration how should they respec or how should they consider adapting otherwise?
Build more health, get Return fire.@@zacherywagner1189
@@zacherywagner1189 building large health amounts is a somewhat decent counter to resist shredders. It basically makes that part of their build less effective. Or just kill them faster.
I doubt they'll nerf it considering it is essentially required to play the game at end game when you're not in low rank where no one builds resists
Would like to say Thank you! been stuggleing to understand the dmg in deadlock :D
You say a few times that theres no case where its better to take glass cannon over crippling headshot. But you also said that crippling headahot increases the whole team's damage against the marked target. So if a few of your teammates go cripplling headshot, i feel like you can pick up glass cannon (or something else) and calitalize on the effects of BOTH Items, no?
yeah this makes sense, though i think its pretty common sense
Resistances can go in the negative by the way so resistance shreds are always good even against targets that don't have armors. Also, stacking escalating exposure (full stacks) + crippling headshot + spirit strike is equal to 100% effective spirit shred on any character with the all spirit resistances in the world.
You still get some use out of it, but it's weaker the less resist the target has.
25% shred on 0% resist target = -25% resist = 25% more total damage
25% shred on 50% resist target = 25% resist = 50% more total damage
@@dorpth that does not make sense
I think items and builds are something a majority of gamers push to the side due to learning curve. People just use pre-made builds that are popular or trending.
I think you would do a lot of people justice to continue doing these videos and go in depth, per character, on how to properly build situationally! Maybe a series with the first video going over a majority of the items and possible use cases. Every other video after that can be a specific character and how to build them based on general factors of an enemy team!
I did that for a long time with both LoL and DOTA but in this game the items are literally called, "Duration Extender", "Extra Regen", "Extra Spirit". It's 100x easier than the other big MOBAs to learn itemisation (and really rewarding with the current diversity 80% of heroes have).
I know it's in Alpha and the names might change, also that there are a few traps, but I really like the simplicity of the current system. It's not too hard to learn for each hero if you understand the items. For this reason I'd advocate for just the video on all the items. For content reasons obviously making a video per hero is a no-brainer.
Thac bro really informative.. deserves a subscription
love your vids, this is soooo useful. i'm about 100hrs in and basically have never stopped to really think about any of this. however (and this might just be me) your constant movement and wiggling around as Kelvin made me motion sick lol. I don't think i've ever had a video do that to me, so in a way it's actually pretty impressive
@@robz0rs hahaahaha, noted my friend i will try not to do that anymore
your channel will explode
i’m still working on my itemization in this game; i feel like i’ve sort of started to grasp how to build vitality items, but my decision-making for gun items still feels pretty nebulous. spirit items seem more utility-focused than damage focused, so i find that i can usually build according to which effects and stats i need, but i don’t really know how spirit power itself works or how much spirit power is supposed to be a lot, or equates to how much damage, etc.
i started off by playing a lot of pocket but i’ve moved away from him after all of the nerfs and playstyle changes, and i’ve been playing a lot of lady geist and warden, who are hybrid characters who focus on both gun weapon and spirit damage (so does pocket i suppose), and i feel like this has really helped me to get a better understanding of all three item categories. i opt for more gun-focused playstyles on both heroes, as i feel that they have enough spirit damage with just a few spirit items that weapon damage and resists are more useful for them.
i used to build a lot more spirit items on lady geist, but the character felt a lot more squishy and less consistent before i started indexing more for weapon and vitality. i don’t really have any plans to try a spirit warden build though.
Glass cannon doesn't actually suck all that much, it's just one of those "Win harder" items.
If you haven't been killing, or your team is playing from behind, or you've been dying in teamfights pretty consistently, it's not the right item for that situation.
Win more strategies usually are subtle misplays. If you are simply better than your opponent, then it doesn't really matter what you build. In a competitive match up against comparable skills, the risk is simply to great
To "win harder" you can also buy no items at all
Yes, please keep buying glass cannon, it's really good and definitely not bait. Signed, a Wraith main ready to blow you up
@@rivetace Ah yes, please continue trying to ult me whenever you see me. I definitely don't have ethereal shift or anything.
@@clocked0is that worth the souls compared to something like Reactive Barrier? I haven't bought that quite yet
0:50 not sure you've said anything about haze's scenario ? or did I miss it ? I'd like to know more about how to properly build damage on haze please :D
Yeah I was looking too. I think in haze’s case he was going to say that fire rate matters most, then resist shred, lastly weapon damage. This is because haze’s base gun damage is so low that multiplying it by anything basically doesn’t do shit. Her main damage comes from her fixation. Which means that target’s resistance to her bullets goes down when she hits that target and gets stacks on them. Basically the result is that hitting two base damage bullets on someone does a lot more damage than one bullet with a damage multiplier in pretty much all scenarios. S Basically anything that increases fire rate and allows her to hit more bullets in the same amount of time will end up doing exponentially more damage than building for weapon damage multipliers. So building as much fire rate as possible and a few resistance shredding items seems to be optimal for her, ignoring items that increase damage but don’t give fire rate or resist shredding. That is my current understanding, but I was hoping to confirm if I was correct on that front from Smeefu.
Glass canon takes objectives. Can't headshot a shrine.
@@DamdyPirate TRUE, though i do think glass cannon is a bit overkill for objective damage, don’t really need more than intensifying mag if you’re going for nuking obj
vampiric burst obliterates objectives
Hero's aura is insane for taking objectives btw the creeps do so much damage in this game
Heroic aura dont buff minions, rtard @@JoseCarlosVM
Intensifying mag and hunters aura, if a solo defender comes by. I think it’s the best option for split pushing objectives atm
Hey, I just find you McGinnis build and my winrate is through the roof. Thank you so much for your work!
Please keep updating it ;)
wow, that result with crippling vs fully maxed glass cannon blew me away. Completely rethinking my buys thanks m8
I'd have expected you to mention lucky shot as well since that 90% is multiplicative and not additive unlike other bonus damages.
Quick question: How do I set up multiple Dummies with different resistances? And will the resistance of an enemy will go negative if you buy resist shredder while the enemy does not have resistance?
just spawn in a bot, and then hold tab and press take control while looking at the bot, then buy items.
second question, i say it in the video but yes shredders do take enemies into minus.
1) in sandbox mode u can create multiple enemies(allies) with a help of testing tools menu to the right top corner of ur screen
2) if it's negative resistance, ur gonna do additional damage of the same percentage as negative resistance, if they have -24%, ur overall damage is 124% compared to no negative resistance
@@smeefu thanks, love your content btw, you really helping me out
On the flip side, this shows you how powerful resistances and fire rate are. Build Escalating Resilience, people!
I’d love to see crippling headshot in comparison to frenzy + bullet reduce shredder. When I build googun, I tend to go for frenzy late game since I’ve already bought BRS and I’m also looking for an ammo increase. I usually treat crippling HS as an ultra late game buy but this it’s pretty intriguing to think maybe I can go decay + crippling headshot in games that I don’t have a enough slots/souls to build toxic bullets + bullet reduce shredder before frenzy
Nice video!
fyi kelvin’s gun has less damage on headshot, you can see in the stat screen that he has -15 crit reduction, this might affect the math a bit so maybe bad as an example hero for showing this off
Someone else asked it, but it's important to know if the Crippling Headshot debuff can stack multiple times from multiple teammates. If not, that changes things unless you're a solo gank machine all game.
The soul/bullet resist shredder are early mid game items. Likely before much or any resist on the enemy team. Does the damage math check out as them being better than similar cost damage items at that point in the game of no enemy resists?
Fire rate doesn't translate to straight dps increase the way weapon damage does, unless you're completely cutting out reload time by consistently instant quicksilver reload or always killing the target with the first mag. As soon as you start factoring in a single reload, fire rate loses value to weapon damage.
I feel it should receive slight consideration that Hunter's Aura and Crippling Headshot's resist debuffs have zero PvE value.
This is a pedantic nerd point I'm about to make, but "diminishing returns" has been misused forever when calculating bonuses in MOBAs, or all games in general. It means you start receiving less flat benefit per factor of production or investment. If every 1000 souls got you +10 dps up to +100, whereupon every 1000 additional souls got you +8 dps, THAT would be diminishing returns. It does not mean that every extra +10 is less important the higher your total dps gets. There's another math term for the point when increasing a DIFFERENT factor is the better payoff...but it's slipping my mind at the moment. It's not diminishing returns though.
I'm pretty sure you can put someone in a negative resist % if they have no armor, so the shredders are generically always good.
Also those generic shreds are 12%, you'd be shocked just how easy it is to get 12% resists from basic 500 items man. Loads of them come with 6%+ resists on them
Commenting here for the time you remember the other term lol
@@DjNaste You always get SOME value out of shreds, but it's less the lower their resists are. Taking someone from 0 to -10% is only half the benefit as taking someone from 50% to 40%.
I'm just wondering if the math makes the value of shred items really that much better than the other damage options at the earlymid point in the game when everyone is running around with 0-15% resist.
And does shred even work at all for PvE? I know Hunter's Aura and Crippling Headshots doesn't. That's another HUGE factor to consider when pushing or jungling earlymid. Shred might only be the best option if you're going for a mid gank build.
vampiric burst is underrated, buy that over crippling. it can melt
An infinetely easier way of describing resist shredders would be that it increases the total dmg of your weapon by X%. Also idk if it's a bug or smthn but the dps calc on the GC dps test is not right whatsoever, because it was most definetely not doing 250 average dps, especially since if it really was doing more weapon dmg than crippiling headshot while also giving more firerate, it should objectively be dealing more dmg
:update: I just tested myself and GC max stacks outdoes CH in both instances. Additionally, the moment bullet shred resist is introduced with both GC and CH, GC had a almost 50% dps lead. Ultimately, early game should be focused around stacking your base dps by getting items with both weapon dmg and fire rate (because they both contribute the same amount to the base dps of the gun) THEN mid-late game should introduce resistance shredding as this will MULTIPLY the dmg at the END of dmg calc. Furthermore, items like lucky shot are basically 80% resist shredders 30% of the time (aka it is dealing roughly 25% more total dps on average from just the effect alone).
That's only true if the target starts at 0% resists. Otherwise, you calculate it by how much more damage is getting through after shredding.
25% shred to bring 0% -> -25% = 25% more damage
25% shred to bring 75% -> 50% = 100% more damage
@@dorpth that is not how math works what so ever. In fact that calc actually just proves my point. 25% - any number of bullet resist including already negative bullet resist is stil 25% more dmg bruh.
The only way it would be more is if there was an item that gained more shred based on enemy resist. Such an item doesn't exist.
@@theepicgameboss It does not increase the total damage of your weapon by x%. If you increased your total weapon damage X by 100% against a 99% resist target, you would deal 1% of X*2. If you shredded 99% of resist, you would deal 100% of X damage, or 100 times more. Shredders increase your total damage output variably depending on the resistances of the target.
@@soffa93 true, but ultimately if I am doing 100 base dmg and I shred 25 bullet resist I am going to be dealing 25 extra dmg no matter what. It's not magically multiplying my damage by 100% just bc he has 50% bullet resist. Yes if it hypothetically gets that high the dmg difference will be significant but the way he frames it (and my problem with the whole thing) makes it seem like bullet shred is doing waaaay more than it actually is. 25 dmg is 25 dmg bro.
Plus, resist shred scales harder based on how much weapon dmg u are doing to begin with, dealing 120 weapon dmg with 12% resist shred will 90% of the time be better than 40 weapon dmg with 25% shred.
I need a good build path for lash
I like Regens Gun Lash or Xaniya Lash
he’s one of the more complicated heroes to build imo, but i think gun-focused builds are probably better than spirit builds as they tend not to fall off as hard in the lategame.
@@eebbaa5560good point on him being one of the most complicated to build right now I actually go tanky bruiser lash with pretty good success playing around mid Oracle. Gun Lash just feels like a worse Vindicta imo.
@@eebbaa5560 Spirit lash in medium MMr is the best, as ur absoloutly shreding your enemies all game long, and at end game your just playing off your ulti.
Best case scenario is someone else with high survivability go for CH and you still get GC. I would argue the less health debuff doesn't matter much if you survive by lifesteal which is most of late game build right now.
Can we have a tier list of itens in the next video? I thought would be awesome, most of the builds i take online isn't that good, trying to make my builds instead.
I need to start building fire rate on Mirage. I personally never see anyone else do it but after this video I’m tempted to give it a try. I mainly build gun mirage with a bit of spirit for djinn mark
fire rate not good for mirage as the djinns mark stack isn’t based on bullets hit but on a timer so you won’t be able to get high stacks and spirit burst damage if you’re constantly out of ammo/ reloading
@ortuhs that's true, but fire rate is just generically good at increasing gun DPS. Just because you can't stack marks quicker doesn't mean they won't die faster.
@@DjNaste i may have misread his original comment i thought he wanted to go for a gun build with some djinns mark focus as well but yea could be interesting to try
@@ortuhs yeah I understand that tbh. But if I’m already building gun mirage it might be worth a shot. Dunno.
I had a Mirage against me yesterday who build firerare and god damn the DPS was insane (even tho the mark wasn't working faster)
Hi smeefu, I'm your big fan and want to ask u to make a video of Yamato build/guide or smth please!!!!
What is your opinion on toxic bullets vs siphon bullets for tanky/life leech heroes like shiv/abrahms/infernus?
@@scase15 you mean for use against these heroes or to use as these heroes?
@smeefu yeah against them, like what is typically the best option. It felt like toxic bullets was far and above siphon, but after the recent nerfs/buffs I'm not so sure any more
Ngl I've often bought glass cannon when my brain has been blank and I've just went ''need more damage quick'', as a new player its enlightening to see actual testing that proves to my monkey brain big number does not indeed always mean better, especially considering the team aspects of shredding enemies.
Does Crippling Headshot from multiple teammates stack? If not, then IMO the case for Glass Cannon is if you already have 2-4 teammates with Crippling Headshot, and you're building (pun unavoidable) glass cannon late game carry Haze, maybe it makes sense to take GC over CH.
Stacking damage resist has diminishing returns, so my question is does that non-linear formula apply to shred as well, or is your resist just nonexistent when people build shred properly?
Follow up question, have you tested to see if something like spirit resist shredder will stack when two different teammates shoot the same target? I imagine not, but it makes me wonder how multiple mystic vulns, escalating exposures, etc. might interact with each other
Glass Cannon is an OK buy when you have other 6k items, it's def not high prio though. I'd also sell a 3k gun item instead of stacking more gun dmg.
what do you think about hunter's aura, its so OP against solo targets, it gives 27% bullet resist shred only for 3k souls
Any idea on how stacking resist shred works ? Like adding bullet shredder + hunter aura + cripling headshot ?
I think it is a very unfair comparison to not mention just how conditional crippling headshot is compared to glass cannon. I'm just going out on a limb here, but I would imagine the vast majority of the playerbase up to eternus 6 and including eternus 6 does not hit headshots as the majority of their damage. I'm only 9 minutes into the video so far, perhaps he goes over better arguments later. But realistically you'd want to look at sustainable damage, not completely idealized damage meeting conditions that are not realistic to upkeep.
@@loompaz you don’t need headshots as a majority, you need it maybe 20% of the time IF that to keep the debuff up.
seems with all the hazes running glass cannon is just dominating my games right now
You’ve just gotta grind out a higher mmr then. Haze is really easy to counter unless your teammates just feed her the whole game in which case there’s not much you can do. Higher ranks she’s not much of a problem
@@TweakerBobfor real at this point, I'm highly inclined to just make my teammates switch so I can deny and waste Haze's time, I didn't even realize before it was too late that my team was just feeding a Haze kills. Compare that to when you're Vindicta and continuously deny her both souls, objectives and kills.
if u had bullet resist shredder and u think u can stack 3-4 glass canon stacks glass canon is way better but otherwise crippling hs better if u buy this items ur first or second tier 4 items if ur ahead going glass canon way better if u behind crippling way better
i still dont agree, maybe for your own damage, but you have to factor in that its gonna increase spirit damage too, AND your teammates damage
Good video, we like
My Bebop brain tells me that resistances don't matter if you can make the numbers big enough.
Lucky shot is a multiplicative modifier though, isnt it. That would make it very good with stacking bonus damage, right?
lucky shot comes with negatives too…
1. it doesn’t multiply headshot damage, even if you are headshotting.
2. the stats on the item suck.
3. you are relying on RNG.
these 3 things together make the item pretty damn bad on anyone who doesn’t interact with it in a special way, like haze for instance applies an extra fixation stack when lucky shot procs so she gets extra value
Relying on the rng matters less and less the higher your rate of fire, though i didnt know about the headshots, that is a shame.
Glass cannon on paradox is still good. Especially if you're winning early
The 2 kelvin vs 5 infernus reminds me of book 1 avatar when the water tribe is outnumbered by fire nation
How is Haze different? You said you’d talk about her later in the video and never did.
@@ChristopherWD sorry, her fixation ability gives her weapon damage as an on hit effect, which means building fire rate is by far the best way to increase damage as haze :)
@@smeefu Thanks!
Make ultimate Ivy tutorial please ❤
You need to look at dps not damage per bullet to compare glass cannon vs crippling headshots
again very similar, especially if you already have some fire rate in the build :)
I noticed this as well. He swapped from DPS for the first items to individual headshots (on an item built for headshots), almost ignoring that the items are balanced around the other stats, like attack speed.
The DPS of Glass Damage is indeed higher and the takeaway of this video should be about counter picking items, not the click bait title.
@@dizmog yep I agree, looking at dps is the way not the other way around. And also by doing that you see how dps is higher with maxed glass canon and no counter pick resistance, which indicates how op is glass canon imo, the problem is that dps is only one variable, that -15% is crazy in a real game and getting all stacks is not easy neither garanteed
i do like how you emphase that bullet armor does matter in some cases, but have you tried buying glass cannon on haze? since she only need passive to do dmg usually haze is max firerate build. so her wep damage is actually quite low. you can say intensify mag does the same but haze usually can get fed on kills to stack up the GC stack, and you just beam them late game with the 130%wep bonus. just try it its actually crazy ;3
to be honest i like the thinking but i am never buying an item that lowers my health by 15% on an already squishy hero, at that point if you are winning games its not the item you are just better haha
@@smeefu isn't that logic inheritnly flawed? you said it yourself, percentage based items work better when a value is higher. If anything you would want to run an item than reduces a percentrage of your health on a low health character no?
@@theepicgameboss You have to consider burst damage thresholds. While the AMOUNT of health reduction is smaller on a low HP hero, if you are at that low health there's a good chance you are near a threshold where a burst from a Talon 1 or similar would bring you to 10% health. If you reduce below that point, you are making yourself more oneshottable.
A higher health hero, while having a technically higher HP penalty, may not be put underneath scary burst threshold like that by a 15% decrease.
@@jehreetv that's just true for any hero with a high and low health pool. The only difference is that you kill people faster and you die faster. Plus, high hp heroes that take it can now be put into those burst threshholds easily when other wise it would be a challenge.
Overall 15% max hp on the characters that will actually use GC isn't that impactful. Being "more oneshottable" doesn't mean anything because you are still oneshottable. Plus with soul leads being a thing and every match be different depending on enemy comp, souls, items, etc, there is no definitive "breakpoints" to change. Might as well just do a shit load more dmg
Actually to elaborate because I feel like yapping...
Imagine there's a burst damage ability that does 1300 damage.
Now imagine 2 heroes:
- 10k hp -> 8.5k hp with GC (lost 2.5k)
- 3khp -> 2550 hp with GC (lost 450)
the first hero lost much more health than the second, but against instances of burst damage of the amount of 1300 it looks like:
- 10k hp: 8 bursts before GC to kill, 6 after
- 3khp: 2 bursts before GC to kill, 1 after
The first character had an effective reduction in health vs. those bursts of 25%
The second character? a 100% reduction haha
Those are really specific examples, I know, but I just mean to show that numbers can be misleading.
Videos I want to see? Potato aimers build guides - builds for heroes that ignore the requirement of clicking heads, assuming that there is a 50/50 chance the bullet will land on the enemy hero... yes this is personal :( I used to be good at shooters but now im washed
Melee abrams build try it out!
@@TweakerBob I prefer Gun Abrams, I used to run Melee and then the parry spam was real so gun it be... people still try to parry gun on Abrams lmao
Just when I thought I understood the game lol
Missinformation as his peak
@@Mortyferus explain?
Honestly I only go glass cannon super late game, just replace intensifying mag for it.
i mean bro im glad you have commented because i cant actually imagine a worse thing to do than that, there HAS to be a better item to replace hahahaha intensifying is like the best possible value damage increase item
@ oh I know intensifying is super good value but it’s not like I get glass cannon often, only in games where they go too long and I have no other buys. By that point I have colossus so it offsets the negative hp effect and at minimum its 88% dmg + 10% fire rate vs maximum 94% dmg + 25% ammo. 3s ramp up time vs instant dmg, personally I just think it’s better later on, it’s not something I would buy earlier than the 45min mark if games ever go that long.
Super late you're not going to build that many stacks unless you're already ahead. Glass cannon is good only if you're way ahead in mid game and building the 7 stacks and is super easy but crippling is probably way better late game because of resist shredding as everyone is tanky super late.
@@impyrobot what I’m saying is you don’t need max stacks on it to be better than intensifying mag, which is the only item I replace for it
You never talked about Haze like you said you would. :(
wow I used this in my wraith build it slapp
It’s clear smeefu doesn’t understand the math here. I can make a video to explain but at no point did he try to explain WHY a target with armor receives more damage the more armor they have relative to a static resist remover. It’s arithmetic but it’s worth explaining. Haven’t made a video in ages but I haven’t come across a single person that actually understands it :)
@@ilevitatecs2 i mean i did explain exactly why, it’s clear you have not watched the whole video. i stated that someone with 75% resistances when shredded by static 25% will then be taking 100% more damage, whereas someone with less armour will not be taking 100% more damage upon being shredded 25%. hope this helps!
@@smeefu once again, read your comment and understand that’s not math. Those are statements
stop telling everyone how good crippling is, you're gonna get it nerfed :(
If you hit headshots you do more damage.
I failed
"the best case scenario" but why didn't you do the test hitting body shots? WTF did I just watch? lmao
@@Michael-pi1lh what? what are you talking about? how would this make a difference? you don’t have to hit every single shot on the head for crippling headshot to work, just every so often, the debuff duration isn’t 0.1 seconds lol