There are so many people skipping/ignoring the ranking explanation. As i stated in the beginning of the video, this is NOT a "performance" based ranking. The categories are based on how COSTLY the steel itself tends to be, or to be more specific, how much of the cost of the knife is based on the steel itself REGARDLESS of how it performs. "Performance" is relative and could be ranked in an infinite number of ways. Some of my lower tier steels were mis ranked because I forget which Chinese steels are identical to others, but my point stands. If you are trying to force this ranking system to be based on performance, you misunderstood or completely ignored the intro. I could have changed words like "premium" to "expensive" for a more clear representation, but we all know this wouldn't have stopped some people from aggressively missing the point. The context is all there.
I didn't watch it. I just jumped to the end of the chart. I think you did a good measurement of what is now a guessing game with too many different variables and different outcomes. But that is science and that's what keeps me still hungry for that knowledge. Some take your discussions and opinion way too seriously. It got my mind into it. Bam! You done did yo duty! 😆
@Bethany415 Maybe you should be the producer for him. He's not that bad . I mean you watched it 🤷 If he was ignorant with the knife business I wouldn't have subscribed. Show some love! ✌️
@@davidglyn9218noted their bad performance but they were ranked that way because they are very inexpensive and undesirable steels. In that case, performance and cost directly correspond
You should make the last couple frames of this video a tier list where everything is just random so people that just go to the end to see the list get triggered by seeing Magnacut in trash tier.
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It amazes me how yesteryear's super steel is today's budget steel. Just ten years ago, Cold Steel used AUS8 on most of their knives, including the Espada knives costing up to $350.00.
I have 10$ stainless steel knives, super intense, I've been using water for 30 years and they're in perfect condition, it's all relative, maybe a K390 wouldn't last the same amount of time using it the same way, but it's a Premium
I have worked with 440C and it's definitely good budget it holds a decent edge and with proper heat treatment can bend over 45 degrees before it snaps real good survival steel that will take awhile but can be sharpened with a river rock and has decent rust protection if taken care of!
I am a complete Steel Nerd and I often agree with you here. Just 14C28N, S45VN, AR-RPM9, and especially Cruwear need to be placed higher and 420HC is definitely not better than 440C. And I like Elmax even better than S35VN. 7CR, 440A and B and especially 4116 (which is better than 420HC!) are better than trash. 9Cr18MoV is basically similar to 440B, so they can’t be separated by two tiers. Sleipner is rather mid-range, it’s an improved D2. I understand that it’s mainly the cost you use to place them, but referring to only the costs leaves a fuzzy expression. H1 would be higher then, because it’s rather expensive. But it’s not a good steel for a knife generally. 420J2 is decent for Sanmai if a decent core steel is used BTW. Highly entertaining video!
I agree except for apr rpm9. I think it's a horrible proprietary budget steel and cjrb should drop it immediately and rethink what steel to use. They obviously didn't do exhaustive research and development when creating this steel because it sucks. I would have simply went with 14c28n it's cheap enough but idk how easily they can get their hands on it. A properly heat treated D2 can be very good as well and is corrosive resistant enough for most people.
I noted the miss ranking of 440B. The ranking isn't "better" or "worse". It's based on cost and how specialized the steel is. Performance is all relative. Some of these lower end steels are definitely miss ranked though because I forget which Chinese compositions are the same as the others.
@@DuhYaThink That's a theory, in reality, they are very different. I get edge retention higher than Elmax and better edge stability (toughness) than 3V with all my handforged ballbearing steel knives. Not even close with my AEB-L's.. softer and edge retention is like 4 to 5 times less.
@@Monsoonpain That's true, however, AEB-L, is a much softer stainless steel, where ballbearing steels, usually are harder alloys that keep their edges way longer.Different type of steels and very different performance between them. UA-camr's that know little to nothing about knives or steel, usually spread nonsence, like the "AeB-L, is the same or similar to a ballbearing steel. Not even close.
I enjoyed your presentation but Cruwear & Nitro V (very Tough, yes weak edge retention) seem to rank too low. The blade steels are created or used for different tasks so it is hard to have a generalized ranking.
@@jkanecutlery I actually have two spyderco PM2’s, one in cruwear and one in magnacut, and what you said basically hit the nail on the head. In terms of performance, I honestly can’t tell the difference between the two. I don’t use em for super hard tasks, or near water lol.
I have a $300 balisong in AEB-L but I know that most of the cost is coming from the finish of the handles, the quality of construction, USA made etc. due to the toughness I would say it works great for that application but the steel itself does belong in Good Budget or Mid Range at best.
You don't list Nitro V, but it has to be either Good Budget or Mid Range. I think it may just be a tad inferior to 154CM, but it is close, so I would put in mid range.
I think it‘s good. But Elmax and CrueWear are Premium in my Opinion. Elmax is quite Similar to m390. (With the Right Heat Treatment) Elmax are a little Bit tougher than m390, m390 are little Bit better in Edge retention. CrueWear is in Performance quite similar to V4E/4V. Sleipner is Mid Range, Like VG10 and N690 but tougher. What do you think about SB1/Niolox? Im from Germany, SB1 is here really popular.
Also i forgot to add that a couple years ago i was working for a pump company that rebuilt water pumps and electric motors for the coal mines and for a long time all of our bearings we used were tempkin brand and in 52100 and they were awesome. I brought home a few of the rollers when we would replace a bearing and used them with some 1095 powder and made some pretty good canister Damascus.
only miyabi which is owned by zwilling calls AEBL fc61. that's not a real thing, it's a marketing term. and miyabi knives are trash. twice as thick (or more) behind the edge as another mainstream knife like Shun. Thicker than 40$ victioinoix and doesn't cut as good either. handle heavy. gaudy styling and flashy. they're all sizzle and no steak for morons who don't know anything about kitchen knives. with their washington monument choils and 24 thou behind the edge. I'm sure edc bros would love them tho. miyabis are literally the worst knives you can get for the money. absolute trash. I own 3 of them. They're trash.
Nice list and it shows your knowledge. I have several William Collins' fixed blade knies in AEB-L and they could be rated Mid Range, because of the heat treat. From my experience with older knives with 1095 steel and good heat treatment could also be in that category. Of course, you already know the many variables.
you place everything on the edge but also you should place the best of the tier all the way left (im curious about how much better or worse is vg-10 than the other mid range steels)
Metal Complex, I believe you did a very good job. Thank you. I'm 66 years old and I've been collecting knifes for many years, however, mostly good budget knives. However, I did just buy a CPM Magnacut RMJ Tactical UCAP knife. I also stated making knives a few years ago, both forging carbon steels and using the stock-removal method. I have two observations for you. First, there are many additional carbon steels that you didn't discuss like 1084, 15N20 and 80CrV2. Notably, the 1095 Cro Van used by ESEE, KABAR, TOPS and many others. And second, I wished you'd talked more about Magnacut. Knives made of Magnacut are becoming much more available at the $100 to $200+ range. Also, you can purchase Magnacut steel from Alpha Knife Supply for a reasonable cost, and it doesn't appear to be too difficult to heat treat.
You mentioned not knowing alot about AEBL or having kuch experience with it... Well, id love to send you a small fixed blade in aebl at high hardness so you can see how it does on the stones! Id love to see how sharp you can get it!
Thanks for making this amazing list, I can see you put alot of effort and time into making it! I just had one question: Can you please elaborate on why you think AUS-10 is on the LOW END - since its properties are very similair with VG10 & 154CM and is often way more afordable. I would love to hear your take on it. Thanks! (I personaly think it belongs in the MID RANGE, especialy taking in regard the afordability in contrast to VG10 and 154CM. But then again, that is just my opinion)
Really close to what I think about steel, but I would argue about few things: -14C28N is mid range just like Nitro-V and AEB-L that are very similar, because in everyday usage most of knives with that steel are just great, it have nice toughness its easy to sharpen and it keep good edge even if sometimes companies hit lower hardness on it. -12C27 is good budget as you can sharpen it to razor.... as it is razor steel, I have it on my Petrified fish PF719 that I put 12* angle edge and after cutting lots of plastic with it it still hold sharpness. -420HC no matter of what brand is not better than 440C, past years 440C most of knives with it hit nice quality and hardness, so its hard to find bad 440C... but you can almost ALWAYS find badly made 420HC. -Even if 154CM and CPM154 have the same composition, quality of CPM154 make it WAY better. 154CM is my favorite steel but after using few knives with CPM variant you really can see the difference in how edge behave after longer usage. I didnt believe in it at first but I was surprised... maybe its quality of specific knife, Im not sure but still... -Elmax and m390 is pretty much the same in everyday usage and sharpening. -H1 is low-end... it just is.
That is exactly right. I mean, that's my exact thought after watching the video. Thank you for saving me some typing time here )). I think that 14C28N (and AEB-L) actually beats the Nitro-V and it should be at least in the same tier. And how is the A2 not a GOOD BUDGET steel? ) How is it better than 14C28N? It's like a non-stainless AUS-8 at best. Isn't it? I would put the 440C in GOOD BUDGET. It's not that much worse than the BD1 (if at all). While some people would put it right next to the 154CM, because it's like a more stainless D2.
@@0ecka I think it comes down to Complex being a knife purchaser and the relative "value" of the metals - if companies make good budget knives with 14C28N then that's where he ranks it. 14C28N should be more mid-high, but great toughness compared to lower edge retention (a more obvious characteristic) devalues it to the knife community at large which generally values edge retention more. 440s were good budget 5-10 years ago, but have been outpaced by D2 and the steels knife companies developed (SPY27, ARRPM9) to replace them and AUS8/8Cr. The only reason Complex puts 420HC in good budget is because of Buck making respectable knives in it. Inherently 420HC and all the 440s are low-end these days. Just better stuff out there even for cheap. Ultimately Complex's opinion is good for casual fans. This ranking will not lead people down a wrong path. Anyone doing a deeper dive should be doing their own research and looking at KnifeSteelNerds. Larrin Thomas literally wrote the book on knife steel before developing Magnacut...
Im curious to see how muxh further we can push steel compositions. Will we get to a point that steels like rex 45, m390, and s45vn are considered low end?
I understand the intent of this video, which is why I am requesting a follow up that focuses on durability, edge retention, and ease of sharpening regardless of cost. For example, I have some 14C28N knives that work just as well as knives that cost twice or even three times the cost, probably because of the way these specific knives were heat treated. I understand this would be subjective to some extent, but since we zero-in on 3 characteristics, I think it will work.
I’ve got a couple Bradford Kitchen knives in AEB-L. For kitchen knives I would put this in at least the mid-range tier. I like this steel, but it might not be great for EDC.
You have Cruwear in the “high end” category, does CPM-Cruwear go into premium since D2 was in “good budget” but CPM D2 was put into the category above in the “mid range” category? Great video, I’ve been looking for something like this.
@andrewplaysoutside yeah, when I got into steel and knifes... I Weighed all the pros and cons of all the different steels that were out there, I kept coming back to this one... yeah I could have stepped it up and got better Edge retention, but I really couldn't justify spending more than what the steel usually cost in that right under $100 but over 50.. but nowadays you can even find some off branded knives in the steel for like 25 bucks, crazy.... regardless it's just a really good rounded steel for everyday use, EDC, ect... I always wanted to get my hands on some better steel but I can never justify spending $200 - $300 on a fixed blade 3 - 4 inch... been in savings mode ever since covid😔... I don't know maybe one of these days I'll go ahead and Splurge a few extra bucks and try something different.. Anyways, just board typing lol.. Thanks for your time / reply 😎✌️
420J2 I would consider more of a lamination/jacketing steel than a core steel, BUT it is used as a blade steel on cheap knives. The mastermind at Carpenter who thought to combine 440C & D2 and came up with CTS XHP should get a medal, that steel is such a great performing user steel. I have heard CTS XHP is now discontinued, I hope that's not true. Some amazing steel on this list, people might disagree with some of the placements but it's not their list 😅
I recently picked up a Spyderco in CTS XHP. I think that it was the chaparral. It could have been something else. I like this steel. I have a lot of Cold steel knives in this steel.
Hey, how do you feel about 80CrV2 as in the Winkler stuff? Is there a particular knife metal that you would choose if you were building a knife for battle? Super tough, great edge retention, that you do almost anything with? Thanks so much!!
Idk about the placement of 52100. The torture tests conducted on Cold Steels Drop Forged series sure impressed me.. bending the blade 27 degrees and it snapping back to straight and what have you.
i make a lot of kitchen knives out of AEB-L and it’s super similar to 14c28n but is easier for custom makers to get and it easy to work with while also getting up to like 64 HRC while still being tough as nails so good in the kitchen. love the video!!
From what I've learned AEB-L is fantastic for thin slicing geometries because it is so tough. However, it really does need the premium cryogenic heat treatment to get to HRC 63-65 to really shine. And then maybe it's not so cheap anymore.
Super steels are the rage now, but for good reason. We knife guys want edge retention because we mostly use knives to cut. I don't know how many new steels there are now, but knives are being made out of many different steels these days.
RIP Nitro-V apparently. I would put it, along with 14C28N up to mid-range. I'd also bump K390 up to ultra premium. Great edge retention, especially done at 64-66RHC. My favorite non-stainless. I look at it as an upgrade to M4.
@metal_complex. Fixed blade knife maker here. AEB-L is one of my fav steels to work with. You can put it right there with 14c and Nitro-V as all 3 are almost identical. Fun fact. AEB-L is the toughest stainless steel on the market. A2 is one of the best fixed hard use knife steels. Also I’d like to mention. I think there’s a lot of hype surrounding steels. I think you should make a list of good steels period. Not what tier because of price. Because if I’m honest I’d buy some of those “good budget steels” over lots of the premium and “ultra premium”. I value well rounded steels over super brittle edge retention steels.
Edge retention IS KING, when it comes to knives. What is the one most important thing about a knife. Will it cut what you are trying to cut? If i have to constantly keep sharpening my blade all the time to keep it sharp enough to cut things, i dont want it... simple as that. Why all my knives are s30v, s45vn and so on.
Love the chart,great info. Wish you could put into a word or adobe format. The ones with smaller text i can't read unfortunately. Its called getting old brother. Thank you keep up the great work brother
12:28 actually you can’t get razor blades made of tungsten carbine because they would be far too brittle. You can get steel razor blades that are tungsten carbine coated, though.
19:10 AEB-L is basically just 14c28n, although in my experience it can get a better edge (might be because the heat treat, the AEB-L knives ive had tend to be nicer than 14c28n). Folders its ok, edge retention could be better, but great for chef knives
I don’t have any expensive super steels but for me the recipe steel 154CM is pretty great. It doesn’t corrode and it’s dependable. I really wanna get a MagnaCut fixed blade with a sheath that has a pocket clip (not a belt clip) and I think I’ll be set.
I have a crkt m16 that's in 4116 and I've used it for a long time it takes an edge very well and holds it pretty well so from my experience I think it should at least be in the low end because it performs almost identical to AUS8.
I’m looking for a stiletto switch blade and while ik that they are not meant for EDC I still want it to have the best quality possible Unfortunately all that I could find were made with 440A steel or worse What steel should I look out for a switch blade like that ? Does anyone have recommendations of brands or websites that could sell sturdy stilettos ?
@ yeah that’s the issue while latama seems to be pretty premium for a traditional stiletto their issue is precisely that, they want to keep it the traditional way wether it’s with their nail-ripping pin lock or with the premium aspect being on the materials of the handle rather than the blade Tbh I’m surprised that no one tried to make some sturdy stilettos, the same way people made katanas using modern high quality steel instead of tamahagane that suck I’d rather have that even if it means that it’s not an historical brand collector piece
So as somewhat of a novelist knife guy. At this point all of my knives are users, I do stick to S30V, S35VN and D2 steals. I try to stay in the $160 or less price range. I've recently decided to get into the higher end side of things. Where's a good place to start looking? Also what brands are recommended for someone starting out with a collection?
Chris Reeve. McNees TRM (best built for the price) Heretic OTS (Pariah is a good start) Don't ignore the high-end Chinese. Reate. WE. Bestech. Artisan. Kansept (they all have well-built high-end stuff) There are some ideas off the top of my head.
Late to the party as usual but I'd say it's a pretty fair assessment. One caveat is there tends to be a fair overlap between the better mid -range and lower high-range steels but honestly where would you stop. My personal solution is to go with 3V wherever I can as I believe it has the best all-round properties.
Hello, Thank you for this video , is very helpful! I'm absolutely 0 in Knife industry, I only have 1 pocket knife, I've bought it because I like how it looks like, It's Buck 110 Folding Hunter Finger Groove. I love how this knife looks , and as I realized later that it's a legendary knife, but looks like they use 420 Stainless Steel and this steel in your rating is in Trash category as I understand or that is a different type of steel? After your video, I found 2 more knifes that I like, one is Kizer Azo Drop Bear Toxic Storm Fat Carbon Folding Knife with 20CV Stainless Steel and another one is Benchmade 15535OR-01 Taggedout Magnacut Carbon Fibre Folding Knife with MagnaCut , the price is almost x2 for Benchmade, does it worth to pay that much extra for a Benchmade with MagnaCut or Kizer with 20CV is also enough good? Or if it's possible can you recommend me please some knife brands with good steels that you can't go wrong with. I'll be happy to hear anyone opinion or ideas. Thank You!
buck 110 is a legendary knife, that revolutionized the pocket knife game, it was the first folding kind that had a lock back design, the steel of 440 now is considered cheap steel, but back when buck first started they used high carbon steel which helped the knife be scary sharp, but it would rust if not maintained well. so it being made with 440 now allows it to still be a cheap pocket knife, that is pretty much every kids first knife from their dad. Now for the second part of your comment, if you're looking to get a new knife and dont wanna break the bank, i personally love vg10 steel, its a happy medium of holding a great edge while also being easy to sharpen, even if youre completely new to sharpening knives. So personally i go after spyderco knives, if you have small hands, get a knife like spyderco dragonfly " i prefer the one with g 10 handles" if you have regular hands look at the delica. if you have huge hands look at the paramilatary. but if you dont like the way spydercos look i understand alot of people dont, but i rather go form and function over looks, you can always get a benchmade 940. if you have a budget just respond and i can help you with finding something youd be happy with
@archaicwarri0r355 Thank you so much for your reply! In my case, I want beautiful knives but at the same time a good one. I don't really need a poket knife, but I like them. They brought me memories from my childhood when I was going to the forest with my grandfather soviet poket folding knife and collecting different mushroom and after my grandma can make some good food with those mushroom for a dinner. So, at the moment, I want a 3 knives collection, I already have the Buck , so I need 2 more. Probably I'll not gonna use them, it's more like a hobby, on my day's off to have a look at them, touch, try to make a picture of them. At the moment, my dream knife is ROCKSTEAD Shu Zdp-Dp , but I understand that this is too much, and this would be just a toy, plus I'm not a rich guy so I don't wanna save money for a few months just to buy a knife, but overall I love how that knife looks like, it's perfection for me. Two days ago, I almost ordered Kizer Varatas Titanium Black, but I decided to wait a little bit to try to go deeper in this industry and study. If Buck is absolutely classic knife, another two in my collection I'll like them to be more colourful, with a black blade, maybe interesting design but at the same time with good quality and value for money brand. I don't have like a specific budget, but I'm ready to spend like $ ~500 in total for 2 more cool knives. For Buck, I spend ~100 $ for the other two, I'm ready for ~250$, or 1 can be 150$ and another 350$, for example. I'll be happy for any suggestions. Thank you. About the hand, I think my hands are between small and medium, so I don't need like extra big or extra small knives to feel comfortable with them.
Thank you for revision👍🏻 But I have few points that I don't agree. D2 Many people seem to do not appreciate this steel 🤔 Why ? Medford are doing knifes in D2 over 400.00 ? 🤔 14C28N as Nitro V should be in mid range steel. It perform very very well. And last point ZDP189 is an awsome blale and the king of edge retention that should place him in ultra premium. Give us your feedback about it and thank you again 😉
The real problem here is that most of the knives that have more or less appealing (to me) designs, are often D2, or some sort of 440 steel. Spyderco makes a lot of different knives from different steels, but they all look like Spyderco knives, which I personally don't find aesthetically pleasing at all.
Imo 14c is one of the best knife steels on the market. Super steel tough, not much is tougher, great corrosion resistance almost super steel like, holds a decent edge and is able to be sharpened insanely easily
Wemt from not caring too much about steel as could always sharpen, to quickly realising that high end and up is the way for me. Cant be bothered spending loads of time sharpening and it always being dull when i need it. I went s110v and never looked back. But thats just my experience.
@@Rammer_Jammer how often are we talking? Because my Manix is in maxamet, which also isn’t stainless (if I remember correctly), and it hasn’t stained yet in the few weeks I’ve had it.
It’s interesting how subjective a thing like trying to categories steels into grades can be. I disagree with some of your placements and also disagree that S45vn and spy27 are essentially the same, which is actually not subjective at all. Spy27 has Co in a fairly large amount. Also has a bit more Cr, And Mn and Si where s45vn has zero of those alloys. Thanks for the content. You’re a brave man.
CTSBD1 is Good Budget (as on the Byrd Raven 2). CTSBD1N is Mid Range (as on the Spyderco Para 3 Lightweight). 1066 Trash or Low End (as on BPS knives)? Is Victorinox EN 1.4110 (X55CrMo14) considered Trash? CRKT knife steels are usually Trash (for the money they charge).
AEB-L is good for razor blades actually. Like a straight razor. I would argue that it is better than midrange, but I also put 440C into midrange, which also is good budget. Kinda confusing list, depending on ones own standards. But then I am speaking about performance only and not about money.
I have a small folder in ZrO2 that has very good edge retention but no toughness. Wonder how it compares to REX 121 on edge retention? Yeah, I know it is ceramic not metal.
I liked the video but it became very subjective, I would like it more if you had made a table where there was a scale from 1 to 10 measured in Rockwell from bottom to top for edge retention and from left to right from 1 to 10 the resistance to corrosion, and we would have a more organized and easier table to decide what type of steel we are looking for. teething of that frame you can comment on its advantages and disadvantages such as tenacity and price
It's crazy how D2 was a premium steel 20 years ago and it's now a budget steel, just goes to show how much has been done to refine steel compositions to exact use cases rather than use what is available and make it work.
I’m a fairly new person and understand knife design and blade geometry but as a newbie I have to say this is hurting my head. How about a biz card size chart we can print and take along in the billfold? Thanks for this though it does help!
I am pretty new to knife collecting because I just graduated and needed a way to waste the money I was making. Out of my very short term experience with this the only ranking I disagree with is s45vn but I don’t know if you can throw it in premium with s90v and s110v but it should definitely be at the very top of high end in my opinion.
There will always be some gray areas with such rankings and I won't quibble about those, but one choice that sticks out is BD1 being so high. I suspect you meant BD1N, but even then, I'd put it with the very similar 440A and 440C.
Yeah, I got a kershaw dividend in magnacut for 110. Nice, but I think the could work on their heat treat. Doesn't hold the best edge like I would expect.
I think LC200N is underrated by many. Sure, not great edge retention, but man, it is tough and super high corrosion resistant. I'm super happy that MagnaCut knives are coming down to such great prices too.
I still feel like magnacut is in this very weird and misunderstood high pedestal. In my opinion magnacut is one of the more reliant steels when it comes to heat treat. I still see companies charging WAYYYYYY too much for 60-62HRC magnacut when magnacut doesn't even begin to both hold a proper edge and have equal toughness until 63HRC at an absolute minimum! Honestly magnacut doesn't deserve to be ANYWHERE near high end or even mid range for that matter unless a minimum of 63HRC is achieved.
I'd like to see how the list would change if you related the ability to hold a sharp edge before considering cost. that way we could judge more about value than the cost of the materials. you can charge $300 for 440 doesn't mean it's going to hold an edge better than D2. cost means little when the actual function is lacking.
There are so many people skipping/ignoring the ranking explanation. As i stated in the beginning of the video, this is NOT a "performance" based ranking. The categories are based on how COSTLY the steel itself tends to be, or to be more specific, how much of the cost of the knife is based on the steel itself REGARDLESS of how it performs. "Performance" is relative and could be ranked in an infinite number of ways. Some of my lower tier steels were mis ranked because I forget which Chinese steels are identical to others, but my point stands. If you are trying to force this ranking system to be based on performance, you misunderstood or completely ignored the intro.
I could have changed words like "premium" to "expensive" for a more clear representation, but we all know this wouldn't have stopped some people from aggressively missing the point. The context is all there.
I didn't watch it. I just jumped to the end of the chart. I think you did a good measurement of what is now a guessing game with too many different variables and different outcomes. But that is science and that's what keeps me still hungry for that knowledge. Some take your discussions and opinion way too seriously. It got my mind into it. Bam! You done did yo duty! 😆
@Bethany415 Maybe you should be the producer for him. He's not that bad . I mean you watched it 🤷 If he was ignorant with the knife business I wouldn't have subscribed. Show some love! ✌️
I was wondering what your opinion on 80CRV2 is. I would love your feedback.
I thought the ‘trash’ rated steels were talked about in terms of performance, or maybe I just took it that way.
@@davidglyn9218noted their bad performance but they were ranked that way because they are very inexpensive and undesirable steels. In that case, performance and cost directly correspond
You should make the last couple frames of this video a tier list where everything is just random so people that just go to the end to see the list get triggered by seeing Magnacut in trash tier.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oooooh, that's evil. I approve 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Lol
i love MC but he does not WORK with steel and is more on the SALES side of steel. cheers
Yes plz😂😂😂
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It amazes me how yesteryear's super steel is today's budget steel. Just ten years ago, Cold Steel used AUS8 on most of their knives, including the Espada knives costing up to $350.00.
I have 10$ stainless steel knives, super intense, I've been using water for 30 years and they're in perfect condition, it's all relative, maybe a K390 wouldn't last the same amount of time using it the same way, but it's a Premium
Moores Law, but with steels.😊
@@frank_MTwhat do you mean by last?
@@ScrubLordJenkins It is a contraindication of the translator perhaps "It would not resist"
Aus8 is still great. Wears quick but easy to sharpen to a razor
I have worked with 440C and it's definitely good budget it holds a decent edge and with proper heat treatment can bend over 45 degrees before it snaps real good survival steel that will take awhile but can be sharpened with a river rock and has decent rust protection if taken care of!
This is awesome! Actually very helpful. Can you make this tier list available for others to do it as well with different criteria??
I am a complete Steel Nerd and I often agree with you here. Just 14C28N, S45VN, AR-RPM9, and especially Cruwear need to be placed higher and 420HC is definitely not better than 440C. And I like Elmax even better than S35VN.
7CR, 440A and B and especially 4116 (which is better than 420HC!) are better than trash.
9Cr18MoV is basically similar to 440B, so they can’t be separated by two tiers.
Sleipner is rather mid-range, it’s an improved D2.
I understand that it’s mainly the cost you use to place them, but referring to only the costs leaves a fuzzy expression. H1 would be higher then, because it’s rather expensive. But it’s not a good steel for a knife generally.
420J2 is decent for Sanmai if a decent core steel is used BTW.
Highly entertaining video!
I agree except for apr rpm9. I think it's a horrible proprietary budget steel and cjrb should drop it immediately and rethink what steel to use. They obviously didn't do exhaustive research and development when creating this steel because it sucks. I would have simply went with 14c28n it's cheap enough but idk how easily they can get their hands on it. A properly heat treated D2 can be very good as well and is corrosive resistant enough for most people.
Elmax is identical to s45 in terms of toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance ... according to Larrin Thomas.
@@jimmycricket7946 My experiences are totally different.
@@BladeLabMiami That's why both need to be placed higher.
I noted the miss ranking of 440B. The ranking isn't "better" or "worse". It's based on cost and how specialized the steel is. Performance is all relative. Some of these lower end steels are definitely miss ranked though because I forget which Chinese compositions are the same as the others.
Didnt include CPM 69420 disliked and unsubscribed
😂 my favorite
😂
I prefer CPM 68420. That's where I owe you one.
Nice.
Bye!
LC200N was the steel NASA developed for ball bearings. 52100 was just an earlier steel thatvwas comminly use in ball bearings.
And Aeb-L is like a stainless 52100 👍🏻
@@DuhYaThink That's a theory, in reality, they are very different. I get edge retention higher than Elmax and better edge stability (toughness) than 3V with all my handforged ballbearing steel knives. Not even close with my AEB-L's.. softer and edge retention is like 4 to 5 times less.
@greekveteran2715 - i believe you...heat treatment, geometry make for huge variables.
@@DuhYaThink- true...DCA on Knifecenter was talking about the relationship between 52-100/ AEBL
@@Monsoonpain That's true, however, AEB-L, is a much softer stainless steel, where ballbearing steels, usually are harder alloys that keep their edges way longer.Different type of steels and very different performance between them. UA-camr's that know little to nothing about knives or steel, usually spread nonsence, like the "AeB-L, is the same or similar to a ballbearing steel. Not even close.
I would put VG-10 into upper mid range.
It's important to also rank within a category.
14c28n i think i would move up to mid range. Especially if its heat treated correctly.
I enjoyed your presentation but Cruwear & Nitro V (very Tough, yes weak edge retention) seem to rank too low. The blade steels are created or used for different tasks so it is hard to have a generalized ranking.
I thought cruwear would be higher due to how well-rounded it is. I heard it was like MagnaCut but slightly nerfed.
Cru-Wear is a little tougher. The edge retention is basically the same. MagnaCut is a true stainless, while Cru-Wear is “semi-stainless.”
@@jkanecutlery I actually have two spyderco PM2’s, one in cruwear and one in magnacut, and what you said basically hit the nail on the head. In terms of performance, I honestly can’t tell the difference between the two. I don’t use em for super hard tasks, or near water lol.
I have a $300 balisong in AEB-L but I know that most of the cost is coming from the finish of the handles, the quality of construction, USA made etc. due to the toughness I would say it works great for that application but the steel itself does belong in Good Budget or Mid Range at best.
You don't list Nitro V, but it has to be either Good Budget or Mid Range. I think it may just be a tad inferior to 154CM, but it is close, so I would put in mid range.
I think it‘s good. But Elmax and CrueWear are Premium in my Opinion.
Elmax is quite Similar to m390. (With the Right Heat Treatment) Elmax are a little Bit tougher than m390, m390 are little Bit better in Edge retention.
CrueWear is in Performance quite similar to V4E/4V.
Sleipner is Mid Range, Like VG10 and N690 but tougher.
What do you think about SB1/Niolox?
Im from Germany, SB1 is here really popular.
Exactly. I would pick Elmax for bushcraft knive, m390 for smaller knives. Both premium.
Also i forgot to add that a couple years ago i was working for a pump company that rebuilt water pumps and electric motors for the coal mines and for a long time all of our bearings we used were tempkin brand and in 52100 and they were awesome. I brought home a few of the rollers when we would replace a bearing and used them with some 1095 powder and made some pretty good canister Damascus.
AEB-L is essentially 13c26n and when used in kitchen knives is sometimes called FC61
only miyabi which is owned by zwilling calls AEBL fc61. that's not a real thing, it's a marketing term. and miyabi knives are trash. twice as thick (or more) behind the edge as another mainstream knife like Shun. Thicker than 40$ victioinoix and doesn't cut as good either. handle heavy. gaudy styling and flashy. they're all sizzle and no steak for morons who don't know anything about kitchen knives. with their washington monument choils and 24 thou behind the edge. I'm sure edc bros would love them tho. miyabis are literally the worst knives you can get for the money. absolute trash. I own 3 of them. They're trash.
Very informative.... High value.... Took a screen shot with my phone for ready reference.... Well done....
Nice list and it shows your knowledge. I have several William Collins' fixed blade knies in AEB-L and they could be rated Mid Range, because of the heat treat. From my experience with older knives with 1095 steel and good heat treatment could also be in that category. Of course, you already know the many variables.
you place everything on the edge but also you should place the best of the tier all the way left (im curious about how much better or worse is vg-10 than the other mid range steels)
Metal Complex, I believe you did a very good job. Thank you. I'm 66 years old and I've been collecting knifes for many years, however, mostly good budget knives. However, I did just buy a CPM Magnacut RMJ Tactical UCAP knife. I also stated making knives a few years ago, both forging carbon steels and using the stock-removal method. I have two observations for you. First, there are many additional carbon steels that you didn't discuss like 1084, 15N20 and 80CrV2. Notably, the 1095 Cro Van used by ESEE, KABAR, TOPS and many others. And second, I wished you'd talked more about Magnacut. Knives made of Magnacut are becoming much more available at the $100 to $200+ range. Also, you can purchase Magnacut steel from Alpha Knife Supply for a reasonable cost, and it doesn't appear to be too difficult to heat treat.
You mentioned not knowing alot about AEBL or having kuch experience with it... Well, id love to send you a small fixed blade in aebl at high hardness so you can see how it does on the stones! Id love to see how sharp you can get it!
All my knive are VG-10, D2 or AUS8A. Cold Steel Kobun, Spyderco Delica, a Strider karambit and CRKT M16-14D.
Thanks for making this amazing list, I can see you put alot of effort and time into making it!
I just had one question: Can you please elaborate on why you think AUS-10 is on the LOW END - since its properties are very similair with VG10 & 154CM and is often way more afordable.
I would love to hear your take on it. Thanks!
(I personaly think it belongs in the MID RANGE, especialy taking in regard the afordability in contrast to VG10 and 154CM. But then again, that is just my opinion)
Check the pinned comment 👍
Really close to what I think about steel, but I would argue about few things:
-14C28N is mid range just like Nitro-V and AEB-L that are very similar, because in everyday usage most of knives with that steel are just great, it have nice toughness its easy to sharpen and it keep good edge even if sometimes companies hit lower hardness on it.
-12C27 is good budget as you can sharpen it to razor.... as it is razor steel, I have it on my Petrified fish PF719 that I put 12* angle edge and after cutting lots of plastic with it it still hold sharpness.
-420HC no matter of what brand is not better than 440C, past years 440C most of knives with it hit nice quality and hardness, so its hard to find bad 440C... but you can almost ALWAYS find badly made 420HC.
-Even if 154CM and CPM154 have the same composition, quality of CPM154 make it WAY better. 154CM is my favorite steel but after using few knives with CPM variant you really can see the difference in how edge behave after longer usage. I didnt believe in it at first but I was surprised... maybe its quality of specific knife, Im not sure but still...
-Elmax and m390 is pretty much the same in everyday usage and sharpening.
-H1 is low-end... it just is.
That is exactly right. I mean, that's my exact thought after watching the video. Thank you for saving me some typing time here )). I think that 14C28N (and AEB-L) actually beats the Nitro-V and it should be at least in the same tier. And how is the A2 not a GOOD BUDGET steel? ) How is it better than 14C28N? It's like a non-stainless AUS-8 at best. Isn't it?
I would put the 440C in GOOD BUDGET. It's not that much worse than the BD1 (if at all). While some people would put it right next to the 154CM, because it's like a more stainless D2.
@@0ecka I think it comes down to Complex being a knife purchaser and the relative "value" of the metals - if companies make good budget knives with 14C28N then that's where he ranks it. 14C28N should be more mid-high, but great toughness compared to lower edge retention (a more obvious characteristic) devalues it to the knife community at large which generally values edge retention more.
440s were good budget 5-10 years ago, but have been outpaced by D2 and the steels knife companies developed (SPY27, ARRPM9) to replace them and AUS8/8Cr. The only reason Complex puts 420HC in good budget is because of Buck making respectable knives in it. Inherently 420HC and all the 440s are low-end these days. Just better stuff out there even for cheap.
Ultimately Complex's opinion is good for casual fans. This ranking will not lead people down a wrong path. Anyone doing a deeper dive should be doing their own research and looking at KnifeSteelNerds. Larrin Thomas literally wrote the book on knife steel before developing Magnacut...
@@TheRyanPowers1 Yes, of course. But, still, seeing BD1 sitting 3 tiers higher than 440A, while performing similarly, rises some questions )).
Im curious to see how muxh further we can push steel compositions. Will we get to a point that steels like rex 45, m390, and s45vn are considered low end?
Where does Busse INFI place here ?
I understand the intent of this video, which is why I am requesting a follow up that focuses on durability, edge retention, and ease of sharpening regardless of cost. For example, I have some 14C28N knives that work just as well as knives that cost twice or even three times the cost, probably because of the way these specific knives were heat treated. I understand this would be subjective to some extent, but since we zero-in on 3 characteristics, I think it will work.
knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10/19/knife-steels-rated-by-a-metallurgist-toughness-edge-retention-and-corrosion-resistance/
I hope that video gets made. It would be far more interesting to me.
Have you used H1 for a considerable amount of time? Perhaps 1 to 3 months of dedicated use?
I’ve got a couple Bradford Kitchen knives in AEB-L. For kitchen knives I would put this in at least the mid-range tier. I like this steel, but it might not be great for EDC.
Very informative video. How would you rate 10V? Metal, Metal, anyone?
dendritic cobalt is my favorite for day to day, not sure how tough it is I baby my knife, but it hold and edge and obviously doesn't rust.
spiderco just came out with a knife with m398 for around 200, might want to check it out
You have Cruwear in the “high end” category, does CPM-Cruwear go into premium since D2 was in “good budget” but CPM D2 was put into the category above in the “mid range” category?
Great video, I’ve been looking for something like this.
14c28n is my favorite because of the affordability and really digging the toughness and stainless AKA rust proof😂✌️
14c28n is wonderful. Best in its price range of all the steels I've tried.
@andrewplaysoutside yeah, when I got into steel and knifes... I Weighed all the pros and cons of all the different steels that were out there, I kept coming back to this one... yeah I could have stepped it up and got better Edge retention, but I really couldn't justify spending more than what the steel usually cost in that right under $100 but over 50.. but nowadays you can even find some off branded knives in the steel for like 25 bucks, crazy.... regardless it's just a really good rounded steel for everyday use, EDC, ect... I always wanted to get my hands on some better steel but I can never justify spending $200 - $300 on a fixed blade 3 - 4 inch... been in savings mode ever since covid😔... I don't know maybe one of these days I'll go ahead and Splurge a few extra bucks and try something different.. Anyways, just board typing lol.. Thanks for your time / reply 😎✌️
What about Sleipner steel on LionSteel ?
420J2 I would consider more of a lamination/jacketing steel than a core steel, BUT it is used as a blade steel on cheap knives. The mastermind at Carpenter who thought to combine 440C & D2 and came up with CTS XHP should get a medal, that steel is such a great performing user steel. I have heard CTS XHP is now discontinued, I hope that's not true. Some amazing steel on this list, people might disagree with some of the placements but it's not their list 😅
Spyderco is dropping a bhq exclusive xhp Shaman soon.
I recently picked up a Spyderco in CTS XHP. I think that it was the chaparral. It could have been something else. I like this steel. I have a lot of Cold steel knives in this steel.
Hey, how do you feel about 80CrV2 as in the Winkler stuff?
Is there a particular knife metal that you would choose if you were building a knife for battle?
Super tough, great edge retention, that you do almost anything with?
Thanks so much!!
Idk about the placement of 52100. The torture tests conducted on Cold Steels Drop Forged series sure impressed me.. bending the blade 27 degrees and it snapping back to straight and what have you.
Read-the-pinned-comment
for the longest, I swore by S30v but my EDC that I currently have is 154 cm honestly, it's a really decent Steel
i make a lot of kitchen knives out of AEB-L and it’s super similar to 14c28n but is easier for custom makers to get and it easy to work with while also getting up to like 64 HRC while still being tough as nails so good in the kitchen. love the video!!
I sharpen a lot of that steel on kitchen knives, and it is so nice and gives a beautiful sharp edge
From what I've learned AEB-L is fantastic for thin slicing geometries because it is so tough. However, it really does need the premium cryogenic heat treatment to get to HRC 63-65 to really shine. And then maybe it's not so cheap anymore.
I'm really just learning about knives and the steel material. Were knives always this varied or has the market exploded recently?
Super steels are the rage now, but for good reason. We knife guys want edge retention because we mostly use knives to cut. I don't know how many new steels there are now, but knives are being made out of many different steels these days.
RIP Nitro-V apparently. I would put it, along with 14C28N up to mid-range. I'd also bump K390 up to ultra premium. Great edge retention, especially done at 64-66RHC. My favorite non-stainless. I look at it as an upgrade to M4.
Oh oops, you did add Nitro-V
I do think it’s important to note S30v was the first steel developed specifically for pocket knives.
@metal_complex.
Fixed blade knife maker here. AEB-L is one of my fav steels to work with. You can put it right there with 14c and Nitro-V as all 3 are almost identical. Fun fact. AEB-L is the toughest stainless steel on the market. A2 is one of the best fixed hard use knife steels.
Also I’d like to mention. I think there’s a lot of hype surrounding steels. I think you should make a list of good steels period. Not what tier because of price. Because if I’m honest I’d buy some of those “good budget steels” over lots of the premium and “ultra premium”.
I value well rounded steels over super brittle edge retention steels.
I completely agree with you
Cruwear is beyond any doubt ultra premium. Excellent toughness, very good edge retention, and it's borderline stainless.
Na. CruWear is definitely where it should be
@@metal_complex Agreed
Yes but that's true for a lot of the high end steels, to be ultra premium it has to have something more
I could see Cruwear in premium but no way it’s it ultra premium.
@@metal_complexyou put 20CV over Cruwear? You gotta be kidding. S45VN is better than 20CV and M390.
Edge retention IS KING, when it comes to knives. What is the one most important thing about a knife. Will it cut what you are trying to cut? If i have to constantly keep sharpening my blade all the time to keep it sharp enough to cut things, i dont want it... simple as that. Why all my knives are s30v, s45vn and so on.
Is edge retention not one of the most important aspects of a cutting tool?
Love the chart,great info. Wish you could put into a word or adobe format. The ones with smaller text i can't read unfortunately. Its called getting old brother. Thank you keep up the great work brother
12:28 actually you can’t get razor blades made of tungsten carbine because they would be far too brittle. You can get steel razor blades that are tungsten carbine coated, though.
What's your opinion on hap40?
Does anyone still nosing about in mid-June have any idea where 5160 might slot on this chart? Spring steel.. except it's nearly summer...🤪
19:10 AEB-L is basically just 14c28n, although in my experience it can get a better edge (might be because the heat treat, the AEB-L knives ive had tend to be nicer than 14c28n). Folders its ok, edge retention could be better, but great for chef knives
Thank you so much for this list. Very helpful. What are your thoughts on VG-Max? I have a few Japanese kitchen knives that use that for the core.
I don’t have any expensive super steels but for me the recipe steel 154CM is pretty great. It doesn’t corrode and it’s dependable.
I really wanna get a MagnaCut fixed blade with a sheath that has a pocket clip (not a belt clip) and I think I’ll be set.
I have a crkt m16 that's in 4116 and I've used it for a long time it takes an edge very well and holds it pretty well so from my experience I think it should at least be in the low end because it performs almost identical to AUS8.
Does the ARRPM-9 revelation effect your estimation of it's value? since it isn't a true CPM, it seems to be less of a bargain to me.
I’m looking for a stiletto switch blade and while ik that they are not meant for EDC I still want it to have the best quality possible
Unfortunately all that I could find were made with 440A steel or worse
What steel should I look out for a switch blade like that ? Does anyone have recommendations of brands or websites that could sell sturdy stilettos ?
Even the nicest ones are delicate. Latama might be your best bet, but those won't have special steel
@ yeah that’s the issue while latama seems to be pretty premium for a traditional stiletto their issue is precisely that, they want to keep it the traditional way wether it’s with their nail-ripping pin lock or with the premium aspect being on the materials of the handle rather than the blade
Tbh I’m surprised that no one tried to make some sturdy stilettos, the same way people made katanas using modern high quality steel instead of tamahagane that suck
I’d rather have that even if it means that it’s not an historical brand collector piece
So as somewhat of a novelist knife guy. At this point all of my knives are users, I do stick to S30V, S35VN and D2 steals. I try to stay in the $160 or less price range. I've recently decided to get into the higher end side of things. Where's a good place to start looking? Also what brands are recommended for someone starting out with a collection?
Chris Reeve.
McNees
TRM (best built for the price)
Heretic OTS (Pariah is a good start)
Don't ignore the high-end Chinese. Reate. WE. Bestech. Artisan. Kansept (they all have well-built high-end stuff)
There are some ideas off the top of my head.
Kansept has some pretty wildly cheap knives for the steel, if you’re okay with their style. I have a Korvid XL in 154cm and Micarta for $88.
BGM, or Dulo knives are awesome. Great steels and decent price for what you get especially DULO KNIVES.
Late to the party as usual but I'd say it's a pretty fair assessment. One caveat is there tends to be a fair overlap between the better mid -range and lower high-range steels but honestly where would you stop. My personal solution is to go with 3V wherever I can as I believe it has the best all-round properties.
Where would you put 8Cr14MoV ?
Hello,
Thank you for this video , is very helpful!
I'm absolutely 0 in Knife industry, I only have 1 pocket knife, I've bought it because I like how it looks like, It's Buck 110 Folding Hunter Finger Groove. I love how this knife looks , and as I realized later that it's a legendary knife, but looks like they use 420 Stainless Steel and this steel in your rating is in Trash category as I understand or that is a different type of steel?
After your video, I found 2 more knifes that I like, one is Kizer Azo Drop Bear Toxic Storm Fat Carbon Folding Knife with 20CV Stainless Steel and another one is Benchmade 15535OR-01 Taggedout Magnacut Carbon Fibre Folding Knife with MagnaCut , the price is almost x2 for Benchmade, does it worth to pay that much extra for a Benchmade with MagnaCut or Kizer with 20CV is also enough good? Or if it's possible can you recommend me please some knife brands with good steels that you can't go wrong with. I'll be happy to hear anyone opinion or ideas.
Thank You!
buck 110 is a legendary knife, that revolutionized the pocket knife game, it was the first folding kind that had a lock back design, the steel of 440 now is considered cheap steel, but back when buck first started they used high carbon steel which helped the knife be scary sharp, but it would rust if not maintained well. so it being made with 440 now allows it to still be a cheap pocket knife, that is pretty much every kids first knife from their dad.
Now for the second part of your comment, if you're looking to get a new knife and dont wanna break the bank, i personally love vg10 steel, its a happy medium of holding a great edge while also being easy to sharpen, even if youre completely new to sharpening knives. So personally i go after spyderco knives, if you have small hands, get a knife like spyderco dragonfly " i prefer the one with g 10 handles" if you have regular hands look at the delica. if you have huge hands look at the paramilatary. but if you dont like the way spydercos look i understand alot of people dont, but i rather go form and function over looks, you can always get a benchmade 940.
if you have a budget just respond and i can help you with finding something youd be happy with
@archaicwarri0r355 Thank you so much for your reply!
In my case, I want beautiful knives but at the same time a good one. I don't really need a poket knife, but I like them. They brought me memories from my childhood when I was going to the forest with my grandfather soviet poket folding knife and collecting different mushroom and after my grandma can make some good food with those mushroom for a dinner.
So, at the moment, I want a 3 knives collection, I already have the Buck , so I need 2 more. Probably I'll not gonna use them, it's more like a hobby, on my day's off to have a look at them, touch, try to make a picture of them.
At the moment, my dream knife is ROCKSTEAD Shu Zdp-Dp , but I understand that this is too much, and this would be just a toy, plus I'm not a rich guy so I don't wanna save money for a few months just to buy a knife, but overall I love how that knife looks like, it's perfection for me.
Two days ago, I almost ordered Kizer Varatas Titanium Black, but I decided to wait a little bit to try to go deeper in this industry and study.
If Buck is absolutely classic knife, another two in my collection I'll like them to be more colourful, with a black blade, maybe interesting design but at the same time with good quality and value for money brand.
I don't have like a specific budget, but I'm ready to spend like $ ~500 in total for 2 more cool knives. For Buck, I spend ~100 $ for the other two, I'm ready for ~250$, or 1 can be 150$ and another 350$, for example.
I'll be happy for any suggestions.
Thank you.
About the hand, I think my hands are between small and medium, so I don't need like extra big or extra small knives to feel comfortable with them.
Great video… would you consider doing a video series regarding how the big companies heat treat different steel but do it in this format?
Thank you for revision👍🏻 But I have few points that I don't agree. D2 Many people seem to do not appreciate this steel 🤔 Why ? Medford are doing knifes in D2 over 400.00 ? 🤔 14C28N as Nitro V should be in mid range steel. It perform very very well. And last point ZDP189 is an awsome blale and the king of edge retention that should place him in ultra premium. Give us your feedback about it and thank you again 😉
Id say cpm 3v pricing is coming down quite a bit, kizer has a few for under 75$
I disagree with 1095 not being able to hold an edge well i almost exclusively use it and it holds up really well.
I really liked your video, I would like to know where you would place 14c28n in good or mid range. Thanks for this ranking and how you did the video.
What about Vanadis 8?
I wonder how Niolox would rank. Probably between Sleipner and D2?
The real problem here is that most of the knives that have more or less appealing (to me) designs, are often D2, or some sort of 440 steel. Spyderco makes a lot of different knives from different steels, but they all look like Spyderco knives, which I personally don't find aesthetically pleasing at all.
I don't like the way they look either, but give 'em a chance. They have great ergonomics!
What about Nitro-V? Where would you put it?
Imo 14c is one of the best knife steels on the market. Super steel tough, not much is tougher, great corrosion resistance almost super steel like, holds a decent edge and is able to be sharpened insanely easily
I'm with you on that one...especially considering the price range of the knives you find it on.
Wemt from not caring too much about steel as could always sharpen, to quickly realising that high end and up is the way for me. Cant be bothered spending loads of time sharpening and it always being dull when i need it. I went s110v and never looked back.
But thats just my experience.
Thanks for validating my Spyderco Rex45 purchase from this morning!!!!! Stormtrooper Sprint from GP on a Manix!!!
Rex45 is great but it will rust if not taking care of properly
@@Rammer_Jammer how often are we talking? Because my Manix is in maxamet, which also isn’t stainless (if I remember correctly), and it hasn’t stained yet in the few weeks I’ve had it.
It’s interesting how subjective a thing like trying to categories steels into grades can be.
I disagree with some of your placements and also disagree that S45vn and spy27 are essentially the same, which is actually not subjective at all. Spy27 has Co in a fairly large amount. Also has a bit more Cr, And Mn and Si where s45vn has zero of those alloys.
Thanks for the content. You’re a brave man.
CTSBD1 is Good Budget (as on the Byrd Raven 2).
CTSBD1N is Mid Range (as on the Spyderco Para 3 Lightweight).
1066 Trash or Low End (as on BPS knives)?
Is Victorinox EN 1.4110 (X55CrMo14) considered Trash?
CRKT knife steels are usually Trash (for the money they charge).
AEB-L is good for razor blades actually. Like a straight razor.
I would argue that it is better than midrange, but I also put 440C into midrange, which also is good budget. Kinda confusing list, depending on ones own standards. But then I am speaking about performance only and not about money.
Is N690 any better than 440C?😊
I have a small folder in ZrO2 that has very good edge retention but no toughness. Wonder how it compares to REX 121 on edge retention? Yeah, I know it is ceramic not metal.
where would you put apex ultra?
RWL34 is the center section of Damasteel billets...As a knife maker I use quite a bit of RWL34, and it sells well.
Need to look at S390...
I liked the video but it became very subjective, I would like it more if you had made a table where there was a scale from 1 to 10 measured in Rockwell from bottom to top for edge retention and from left to right from 1 to 10 the resistance to corrosion, and we would have a more organized and easier table to decide what type of steel we are looking for. teething of that frame you can comment on its advantages and disadvantages such as tenacity and price
any help the best cooking knife around €100 +/- ?
I was thonig about hajegato Damascus Chef Knife Kiritsuke 8
It's crazy how D2 was a premium steel 20 years ago and it's now a budget steel, just goes to show how much has been done to refine steel compositions to exact use cases rather than use what is available and make it work.
What would you place O2 (90mncrv8) at?
Where would you put Cold Steels old Carbon V and Ontarios 5160?
I'm already plugged in with Knife Center on getting Spyderco's Rex121 "lil Native" model.. super excited
I’m a fairly new person and understand knife design and blade geometry but as a newbie I have to say this is hurting my head. How about a biz card size chart we can print and take along in the billfold? Thanks for this though it does help!
Take a screenshot of the table in the video, paste it into Word, size it accordingly, and print it out.
I am pretty new to knife collecting because I just graduated and needed a way to waste the money I was making. Out of my very short term experience with this the only ranking I disagree with is s45vn but I don’t know if you can throw it in premium with s90v and s110v but it should definitely be at the very top of high end in my opinion.
Amazing video tho
There will always be some gray areas with such rankings and I won't quibble about those, but one choice that sticks out is BD1 being so high. I suspect you meant BD1N, but even then, I'd put it with the very similar 440A and 440C.
Kershaw released a version of their edc classic the Blur in Magnacut for only 130. You can get a premium blade at a reasonable price.
Yeah, I got a kershaw dividend in magnacut for 110. Nice, but I think the could work on their heat treat. Doesn't hold the best edge like I would expect.
I think LC200N is underrated by many. Sure, not great edge retention, but man, it is tough and super high corrosion resistant. I'm super happy that MagnaCut knives are coming down to such great prices too.
I still feel like magnacut is in this very weird and misunderstood high pedestal. In my opinion magnacut is one of the more reliant steels when it comes to heat treat. I still see companies charging WAYYYYYY too much for 60-62HRC magnacut when magnacut doesn't even begin to both hold a proper edge and have equal toughness until 63HRC at an absolute minimum! Honestly magnacut doesn't deserve to be ANYWHERE near high end or even mid range for that matter unless a minimum of 63HRC is achieved.
Where would you place asp-60 like whats found in the maxace killer whale 2.0?
I just got the pm2 in s90v from palmetto state armory of all places for like 180. It is the teal g10
Any thoughts on K890 steel (Bohler Udeholm... spelling?)?
I'd like to see how the list would change if you related the ability to hold a sharp edge before considering cost. that way we could judge more about value than the cost of the materials. you can charge $300 for 440 doesn't mean it's going to hold an edge better than D2. cost means little when the actual function is lacking.
Im curious about H2 vs H1....