The idea that Venom picks up traits and holds onto them, leading to those traits effecting later hosts is actually a cool idea because a good writer can really play with what traits are showing up depending on chronology as well as how those traits effect different characters. Wade's madness, Peter's long repressed rage, Eddie's resentment/desperation, etc etc. It'd also be cool if they showed more about how these traits affect Venom as well outside of its hosts. Now I can't help but wonder if Venom would have been included if Sony didn't have the rights locked down. That trio leading a movie would be fascinating to see play out given the different dynamics that'd be at play.
Movie rights issues are a pain, it's why we never got a new solo Hulk film since 2008 and why it took so long to finally get X-Men characters show up in the MCU, at the cost of making convoluted workarounds on how they show up. The Venom movies would've easily fit into the MCU during the 5-year gap between Infinity War and Endgame.
Deadpool as a whole was something familiar but different. He was reminiscent in Venom’s arc becoming a lethal protector with Spidey’s issues, but deeper and the comics studied the trauma caused by and to Deadpool. He had a similar but worse life to Spider-Man and even Weasel, his best friend is essentially if Peter Parker was a good guy pushed in a bad world. It’s great.
And yeah don't forget, Deadpool use the Symbiote in Secret "Secret" War and Black and white. Deadpool team up with Flash Thompson in the Thunderbolts. And has an extremely extravagant relationship with Carnage
Gonna be honest, I despise the Venom movies. It felt like Sony went out of their way to strip everything I love about Eddie Brock as a character: no Spider-Man in the origin, Eddie isn’t that much of an asshole prior to becoming Venom, the Symbiote is a completely unique entity instead of taking the host’s desires and twisting them, Carnage being awful, etc, etc, etc. I’m not normally one to complain about comic accuracy, but the Sony Venom movies are my one exception. Glad you dig them, Ant, but I can do without them.
At the same time...Is Venom still all these things on today's comic perception? I see that Donnie Cates make a really solid foundation tô basically erase the necessity of Spiderman on the character
@@juliocesar899 I love Cates’ run on the character, don’t get me wrong. I was disappointed in how Spider-Man 3 adapted Eddie and the Symbiote, so I was hoping that the next live action adaptation would be better. Ah well, can’t have everything.
@@HubPie3 That's fair, I always saw this Sony movies as a opportunity to be experimental and try weird and new things, but they always end up doing the most low effort-common denominator movie possible
The Symbiote being a unique entity is accurate tho. The "twist the host's desires thing" was never a thing in the comics and it's just a cheap excuse to have Peter take off the costume for adaptations. In the comics, it can manipulate you with words and psychological manipulation.
While it would be nice for Venom to show up in the MCU I actually like that we're at least getting one Marvel movie series that doesn't require me to watch any other movie for context, I really do miss the way superhero movies were made during the 2000's when they were their own stand-alone things. I just wish we could get both at the same time, MCU movies and other Marvel movies where the characters existed in their own little narrative bubble, maybe if the MCU was downgraded to only streaming shows that could be doable.
Honestly, Venom really did feel like a last hurrah for Marvel as the bubble was going to burst. In the words of a yellow sea sponge, it was the direct result of a lethal interaction from lack of variety and a monopolistic distribution system. We're beginning to see where the lack of variety came into play before the monopoly ultimately strangled the comic book industry to the point of collapse.
To me it was the last issue of Maximum Carnage where Eddie fully let the beef go with Spidey. This all makes sense for me, and had some conscientious choices driving it. Another point to add to this: if Venom ever got Wolverine's opinion of Spiderman, which he absolutely could have from watching the nightly news. Wolverine and Spiderman have had many crossovers. Typically Logan holds Peter in the highest regard, one of the best of the best people. If Venom already had some respect for Logan and saw that he held Peter highly--we have another drop in the Venom heel/face turn bucket.
... I mean, as a massive Wolverine Fan, the lesser Wolverine films didn't work, even though Hugh tried to carry them. Despite being a Foot Taller than his Comic Counterpart, we loved his performance for all these years. The Venom movies I think play too much into humor, as Venom is meant to be at best an Obsessed Fanboy with a Sadistic Streak. He is not a Hero in the majority of his runs. So, not that the movies "ruined" Venom as a character, it's just not actually Venom.
mmmm.... this video feels like a bit of a reach, tying to find meaning and connection in a series of unconnected stories, trying to justify a video essay. You admit as much by contextualizing most of the retcons as being just that (insertions to create connection where little existed before), with the implicit admission that most of the connection wouldn't work without them. It, also, IMO, does X-23 and Flash Thompson a disservice by suggesting their main usage is in their connection to Wolverine and Venom, rather than Laura's own redemption, or the ongoing evolution of Flash's maturation and that changes his relationship with Peter Parker. And, of course, Venom's other connections in the MU, primarily Spider-man's role in Eddie's growth, both directly and indirectly. I think it's also a niche opinion to suggest that Wolverine and Venom need to interact with each other. Especially when Venom and Spider-man have yet to do so, or even be setup in such a way for that meeting to happen organically. I also don't think its healthy to suggest that just because the possibility for them to connect exists, means that it has to happen. Deadpool and Wolverine works because both are X-men adjacent characters traditionally. Wolverine and Venom, not so much, without the connecting fiber of "exists in a universe where their adjacent characters have more connection." This need for connection for connection's sake is also how we got to this era of crossover fatigue AND Disney solidifying its monopoly over the media landscape (i.e. Fans: wouldn't it be cool if so and so crossed over? Disney: So you're cool with us owning everything to make it happen? Fans: Sure!) But I watched the video in its entirety to see if the title was hyperbole or not, so well played.
Welcome to comics. This your first time here? Does wasting a milestone comic on an imposter of world-renowned sonic the hedgehog from a negative-polarity universe created to fill a quota starts banging literally every girl in the comic make more sense than trying to make sense of an unusual relationship that began in a bar fight? If so, stop thinkin' with your sausage. Ken Penders would double-down on this with the Lara-Su Chronicles and breastfeeding echidnas and as he said in the end of the essay, you shouldn't be taking comics too seriously in the first place or you'd go mad. It's the story of Sonic Super Special #7. The crossover event between Image and Archie, which on top of Knuckles being a new character who was seen as a blank slate, gave the man known as Penders the oppertunity to hijack the comic because it didn't take itself seriously.
I got that thunderbolts comic from the library as a kid and I was super excited cause the characters all seemed interesting, it was one of the biggest disappointments I’ve had reading comics and it’s one of the few I’ve started that I never finished. I only got about a quarter through, and I don’t remember much except that it seemed very red hulk centered and he was about the blandest character I’d ever read.
O wait you already played it nice. But honestly I could never do the Press the l trigger and press the R trigger rapidly I couldn’t do that disability on the right arm.
man this makes me kinda sad tbh lol I haven't really ever considered how much I take my arms for granted. We need to design a controller/attachment so that disabled people can enjoy the same games, nobody should have video games taken from them
Venom to me has always been a very interesting character more than many give credit for who just dismiss him as "cool monster badguy". Unfortunately, his comics history can be a little messy as are the symbiotes as a whole since many writers ignored continuity to do whatever they want, but if you can ignore those typical comic problems Venom/Eddie still have a very interesting story.
The idea that Venom picks up traits and holds onto them, leading to those traits effecting later hosts is actually a cool idea because a good writer can really play with what traits are showing up depending on chronology as well as how those traits effect different characters.
Wade's madness, Peter's long repressed rage, Eddie's resentment/desperation, etc etc.
It'd also be cool if they showed more about how these traits affect Venom as well outside of its hosts.
Now I can't help but wonder if Venom would have been included if Sony didn't have the rights locked down. That trio leading a movie would be fascinating to see play out given the different dynamics that'd be at play.
Movie rights issues are a pain, it's why we never got a new solo Hulk film since 2008 and why it took so long to finally get X-Men characters show up in the MCU, at the cost of making convoluted workarounds on how they show up. The Venom movies would've easily fit into the MCU during the 5-year gap between Infinity War and Endgame.
Owned by different companies and why would the mcu allow them absolute dog shit venom movies in their universe?💀
Ye but those also suck so...
your forgot to mention the other thing deadpool and venom have in common there both secretly want to kiss spiderman
Naw just the humor
I don't think it's a secret
Deadpool does not keep that a secret
It's really interesting how Spiderman was the first to break their truce, yet Venom still honored it for a while.
Deadpool as a whole was something familiar but different. He was reminiscent in Venom’s arc becoming a lethal protector with Spidey’s issues, but deeper and the comics studied the trauma caused by and to Deadpool. He had a similar but worse life to Spider-Man and even Weasel, his best friend is essentially if Peter Parker was a good guy pushed in a bad world. It’s great.
Deadpool and Wolverine are my 2 favorite marvel characters and after watching the movie of the two of them together I can die happy
And yeah don't forget, Deadpool use the Symbiote in Secret "Secret" War and Black and white. Deadpool team up with Flash Thompson in the Thunderbolts. And has an extremely extravagant relationship with Carnage
Gonna be honest, I despise the Venom movies. It felt like Sony went out of their way to strip everything I love about Eddie Brock as a character: no Spider-Man in the origin, Eddie isn’t that much of an asshole prior to becoming Venom, the Symbiote is a completely unique entity instead of taking the host’s desires and twisting them, Carnage being awful, etc, etc, etc. I’m not normally one to complain about comic accuracy, but the Sony Venom movies are my one exception. Glad you dig them, Ant, but I can do without them.
At the same time...Is Venom still all these things on today's comic perception? I see that Donnie Cates make a really solid foundation tô basically erase the necessity of Spiderman on the character
@@juliocesar899 I love Cates’ run on the character, don’t get me wrong. I was disappointed in how Spider-Man 3 adapted Eddie and the Symbiote, so I was hoping that the next live action adaptation would be better. Ah well, can’t have everything.
@@HubPie3 That's fair, I always saw this Sony movies as a opportunity to be experimental and try weird and new things, but they always end up doing the most low effort-common denominator movie possible
you just hate to see a queer love story succeed /s
The Symbiote being a unique entity is accurate tho. The "twist the host's desires thing" was never a thing in the comics and it's just a cheap excuse to have Peter take off the costume for adaptations. In the comics, it can manipulate you with words and psychological manipulation.
While it would be nice for Venom to show up in the MCU I actually like that we're at least getting one Marvel movie series that doesn't require me to watch any other movie for context, I really do miss the way superhero movies were made during the 2000's when they were their own stand-alone things. I just wish we could get both at the same time, MCU movies and other Marvel movies where the characters existed in their own little narrative bubble, maybe if the MCU was downgraded to only streaming shows that could be doable.
Funny story about a bar fight that was in the spider-man ultimate video game.
Honestly, Venom really did feel like a last hurrah for Marvel as the bubble was going to burst. In the words of a yellow sea sponge, it was the direct result of a lethal interaction from lack of variety and a monopolistic distribution system. We're beginning to see where the lack of variety came into play before the monopoly ultimately strangled the comic book industry to the point of collapse.
To me it was the last issue of Maximum Carnage where Eddie fully let the beef go with Spidey. This all makes sense for me, and had some conscientious choices driving it. Another point to add to this: if Venom ever got Wolverine's opinion of Spiderman, which he absolutely could have from watching the nightly news. Wolverine and Spiderman have had many crossovers. Typically Logan holds Peter in the highest regard, one of the best of the best people. If Venom already had some respect for Logan and saw that he held Peter highly--we have another drop in the Venom heel/face turn bucket.
The teacher/mentor note is also pretty present in the 2000's cartoon x-men evolution
... I mean, as a massive Wolverine Fan, the lesser Wolverine films didn't work, even though Hugh tried to carry them. Despite being a Foot Taller than his Comic Counterpart, we loved his performance for all these years. The Venom movies I think play too much into humor, as Venom is meant to be at best an Obsessed Fanboy with a Sadistic Streak. He is not a Hero in the majority of his runs. So, not that the movies "ruined" Venom as a character, it's just not actually Venom.
I guess I’m surprised they didn’t go with handicapped military veteran Flash for the Venom movies. Venom v Agent Venom.
I loved those comics. I hope we get that in film eventually
@@Illitha yeah, i was surprised that I liked him more than Eddie as a Venom host.
I love ur video bro, you articulate your thoughts so well ❤🙌🏼
Tbh good year for me
Deadpool, wolverine and venom are my three favorite superheroes
Venom movies were underwhelming. They made Eddie too goofy
mmmm....
this video feels like a bit of a reach, tying to find meaning and connection in a series of unconnected stories, trying to justify a video essay.
You admit as much by contextualizing most of the retcons as being just that (insertions to create connection where little existed before), with the implicit admission that most of the connection wouldn't work without them.
It, also, IMO, does X-23 and Flash Thompson a disservice by suggesting their main usage is in their connection to Wolverine and Venom, rather than Laura's own redemption, or the ongoing evolution of Flash's maturation and that changes his relationship with Peter Parker.
And, of course, Venom's other connections in the MU, primarily Spider-man's role in Eddie's growth, both directly and indirectly.
I think it's also a niche opinion to suggest that Wolverine and Venom need to interact with each other.
Especially when Venom and Spider-man have yet to do so, or even be setup in such a way for that meeting to happen organically.
I also don't think its healthy to suggest that just because the possibility for them to connect exists, means that it has to happen.
Deadpool and Wolverine works because both are X-men adjacent characters traditionally.
Wolverine and Venom, not so much, without the connecting fiber of "exists in a universe where their adjacent characters have more connection."
This need for connection for connection's sake is also how we got to this era of crossover fatigue AND Disney solidifying its monopoly over the media landscape
(i.e. Fans: wouldn't it be cool if so and so crossed over? Disney: So you're cool with us owning everything to make it happen? Fans: Sure!)
But I watched the video in its entirety to see if the title was hyperbole or not, so well played.
Welcome to comics. This your first time here? Does wasting a milestone comic on an imposter of world-renowned sonic the hedgehog from a negative-polarity universe created to fill a quota starts banging literally every girl in the comic make more sense than trying to make sense of an unusual relationship that began in a bar fight? If so, stop thinkin' with your sausage. Ken Penders would double-down on this with the Lara-Su Chronicles and breastfeeding echidnas and as he said in the end of the essay, you shouldn't be taking comics too seriously in the first place or you'd go mad.
It's the story of Sonic Super Special #7. The crossover event between Image and Archie, which on top of Knuckles being a new character who was seen as a blank slate, gave the man known as Penders the oppertunity to hijack the comic because it didn't take itself seriously.
Bro forgot madame web came out this year
It’s okay though because no one remembers
that's how bad it was
If we're not counting Kraven which hasn't even come out yet, then we definitely don't count the flaming pile of whale shit that was Madame Web.
Who?
so its just the vegeta effect
im playing thru spiderman 2 rn and u just spoiled it for me
I got that thunderbolts comic from the library as a kid and I was super excited cause the characters all seemed interesting, it was one of the biggest disappointments I’ve had reading comics and it’s one of the few I’ve started that I never finished. I only got about a quarter through, and I don’t remember much except that it seemed very red hulk centered and he was about the blandest character I’d ever read.
O wait you already played it nice. But honestly I could never do the Press the l trigger and press the R trigger rapidly I couldn’t do that disability on the right arm.
man this makes me kinda sad tbh lol I haven't really ever considered how much I take my arms for granted. We need to design a controller/attachment so that disabled people can enjoy the same games, nobody should have video games taken from them
Venom to me has always been a very interesting character more than many give credit for who just dismiss him as "cool monster badguy". Unfortunately, his comics history can be a little messy as are the symbiotes as a whole since many writers ignored continuity to do whatever they want, but if you can ignore those typical comic problems Venom/Eddie still have a very interesting story.
my guy forgot about Madame Web and Kraven. I understand
Anyone ever tell this guy he sounds like Stan Lee? What's up with that? Im convinced comicbook shannangins took place in the real world.
Deadpool appreciates being included but who have preferred being compared to his star crossed lover…. Spider-Man, lol
The second Venom was not fun it was excruciatingly awfull.