A Complete Guide to Mana Ramp I The Command Zone 303 I Magic: the Gathering Commander EDH

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  • Опубліковано 26 лис 2024

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  • @classymofo1059
    @classymofo1059 4 роки тому +340

    Also MORE CRAIG he is amazing as a co-host. He brings up interesting counter arguments and views to certain topics and it leads to conversations that arent one sided, which is really interesting. Great job! 👍

    • @sebastiankeleher8403
      @sebastiankeleher8403 4 роки тому +5

      classy mofo105 It makes the podcast so much better it gives a sense of debate to the conversation PLEASE keep Craig

    • @darthrevan8376
      @darthrevan8376 4 роки тому +1

      ya creg jimmy and josh

  • @nielsbom
    @nielsbom 4 роки тому +223

    I really like Craig as co-host, such a chill dude.

    • @Adjacent_2
      @Adjacent_2 4 роки тому +2

      sounds like he's been smoking cigs tho haha

    • @mrTjstephens1
      @mrTjstephens1 4 роки тому +1

      @@Adjacent_2 sure laid back smoking something for years! Haha

    • @Turn2Ugin
      @Turn2Ugin 4 роки тому

      @@mrTjstephens1 doobage?

    • @thulegezelschap5884
      @thulegezelschap5884 3 роки тому +1

      @@mrTjstephens1 is name is even Craig.. ofc he smokes

    • @cliponbowties4799
      @cliponbowties4799 3 роки тому

      Until the game starts

  • @T_Peazy
    @T_Peazy 4 роки тому +267

    Reliable
    Accelerating
    Mana
    Production.
    RAMP

    • @T_Peazy
      @T_Peazy 4 роки тому +4

      @@beurtalvarez I've never heard anyone else use it. So.... thanks.

    • @alexwilder806
      @alexwilder806 4 роки тому +10

      I’m pretty sure it comes from Rampant Growth

    • @EpicGrapefruit
      @EpicGrapefruit 4 роки тому +5

      People
      Order
      Our
      Patties.
      Poop

    • @SuperRaids13
      @SuperRaids13 3 роки тому +1

      @@beurtalvarez ramp is not just a magic term. The term ramp in relation to mana acceleration is simply in reference to a ramp. Increase in elevation.

  • @johnevans6629
    @johnevans6629 4 роки тому +152

    I so hope the professor's predictions about the return phyrexia comes true. I also can't wait to see Josh and Jimmy's face when they have to do a game Knight's around infect and of course the lord of infect is going to be guest of honor!

    • @NickOnFire1490
      @NickOnFire1490 4 роки тому +9

      I hope they go back to new phyrexia too, but i don't think that infect is guaranteed to return. Infect is perceived by a lot of the community as a feel bad, especially in commander. If you don't believe me, bring an infect deck to a casual table and see how the rest of the pod reacts. I can't speak to how it was in standard, but infect has always been a viable strategy in many eternal formats. I hope that infect makes a return, but I think there's a good chance it won't.

    • @filiphorvath8932
      @filiphorvath8932 4 роки тому

      I dont think infect will return - it creates feel bads in standard which is where most players start and is pretty warping since it pushes aggro decks to the front of the meta. I would say we will see something new.

    • @coryledwitch6492
      @coryledwitch6492 4 роки тому +1

      @@NickOnFire1490 It was feel bad when it was in standard as well.

    • @CrazyCatMan13
      @CrazyCatMan13 4 роки тому

      trex1490 I play an Arixmethes deck that has some infect (Triumph, Grafting Skeleton) for quick kills and I ended up taking it out because my play group would just target me immediately.

    • @hellvast1
      @hellvast1 4 роки тому

      Infect wont be coming back, its extrealy unpopular with the greater player base.

  • @andrewaman7661
    @andrewaman7661 4 роки тому +197

    Craig’s reaction to the ultra pro segment looks like someone who uses dragon shield

    • @malcolmp.8675
      @malcolmp.8675 4 роки тому +54

      I like the 'Dragon Shield Matte's'. No glare, great shuffle I've had the same sleeves on my decks for about six months now. All of my LGS' have a limited quantity of ultra pro sleeves so its hard for me to compare thoroughly.

    • @andrewaman7661
      @andrewaman7661 4 роки тому +2

      @@blaze556922 ok i will agree that ultra pros have great shuffle feel and amazing quality but i have people that i have played with and ever scince prof reviewd them they havent seen a break in around a year

    • @Kestral287
      @Kestral287 4 роки тому +35

      The upside of dragon shields isn't in their shuffle feel or their texture. It's in the fact that they're absurdly resilient. I've owned well over a thousand dragon shields in my time playing and I haven't had a single one split to normal use - I split one intentionally, to see how hard it was. That's it. In a thousand-plus, and I'm a very regular player. In working at a card shop for about a year, I've seen two others split, and dragon shields are by far our most popular sleeve sale.
      Conversely, I split my first eclipse two weeks after I got them. And that deck wasn't seeing any unusually high wear; it was probably one of my *less* played decks at the time.

    • @SacredCharizard
      @SacredCharizard 4 роки тому +22

      Dragonshield Mattes are far superior to Eclipse sleeves. They're thicker, the shuffle feel is far better, and they're far more resilient. If glare is all you're worried about, Dragonshield makes non-glare mattes too.
      But to he honest, if you're using any sleeves besides Ultimate Guard's Katana sleeves, you haven't lived. They're the absolute BEST on the market but in far more limited quantities so they're harder to find/more expensive. I put my most expensive, 100% foiled, 40% artist-signed deck in them and haven't looked back.

    • @tapnslapmtg7432
      @tapnslapmtg7432 4 роки тому +1

      I think you need to try ultra pro katanas they are the pinnacle of greatness when it comes to hitting the nail on the head for every category that makes a sleeve great

  • @shaunboyce727
    @shaunboyce727 4 роки тому +115

    I’m surprised I didn’t hear anyone coin “mana advantage”. In most instances where you have unwinding clock, or seedborn muse is really “mana advantage” rather than ramp. I subscribe to the narrow thought of more lands is mana ramping, and mana rocks.

    • @amywilliams5233
      @amywilliams5233 4 роки тому +2

      I was looking for a comment mentioning this exact thing, thanks for coining it

    • @muhdafiq3329
      @muhdafiq3329 4 роки тому +1

      shaun boyce and this works well in decks like feather where you’re essentially looking to cast things on people’s turns over and over again!

    • @kaszael
      @kaszael 4 роки тому +3

      Seedborn Muse will not let you cast a 6CMC card on turn 5. It will let you cast up to 4 5CMC cards during the whole turn cycle however,. It depends on what you need it for. If I'm looking to cast many lower CMC cards at instant speed, I'd consider it mana ramp *only* then.

    • @Tupiaz
      @Tupiaz 4 роки тому

      @GasparXR You still don't jump the curve.

    • @Tupiaz
      @Tupiaz 4 роки тому +2

      Really like this term. I was trying define what you just did so well. I could only express Seedborn Muse was closer to card advantage as you can cast more cards but you don't jump the mana curve. Mana advantage is much better term.

  • @augustfilbert6305
    @augustfilbert6305 4 роки тому +65

    I get the point about thinning, but land tax absolutely does make a meaningful dent in your dead draws.

    • @TOOLandNINfan
      @TOOLandNINfan 4 роки тому +1

      I agree; curious their opinion on Mana Severance.
      I run a Golos deck, and between him chucking 3 per activation and all 10 fetch lands, my land disappear pretty fast.

    • @johnandrewbellner
      @johnandrewbellner 11 місяців тому

      I agree. Does it make a huge difference? Probably not. But when people will absolutely annihilate someone when they say they only play 33 lands in a commander deck instead of 37, all I can think is how playing 4+ fetch lands does the same thing. Kind of.

  • @themoakman
    @themoakman 4 роки тому +90

    Secretly Craig says off camera, "I totally switched the decks back to Dragon Shields after the episode"

    • @justinem4117
      @justinem4117 4 роки тому +6

      Lmao omg shook 🤣 in all seriousness though Craig is a fascinating character, I'd call him "casually competitive" he seems like a genuinely nice GUY, he just plays decks that would annoy some people ALOT. His playstyle screams "I dont care if you're salty, whatever 💁‍♀️"

  • @jxhook
    @jxhook 4 роки тому +83

    If Craig had his own show, I would watch that too. Just an entertaining guy.

    • @rayquaza4948
      @rayquaza4948 4 роки тому +1

      Gooooldberg
      Gooooldberg
      :)

    • @Turn2Ugin
      @Turn2Ugin 4 роки тому +2

      Whole heartedly agree

    • @Maezhughes
      @Maezhughes 4 роки тому

      Same

    • @jordonpohl7393
      @jordonpohl7393 4 роки тому +1

      More Craig! More Craig! ... and Jimmy of course is doesn’t mean we want less of you, just more of Craig too!

  • @thomashearne4670
    @thomashearne4670 4 роки тому +19

    Craig was well spoken and knowledgeable. Definitely should be a guest on the show more often

  • @Ryuka1993
    @Ryuka1993 4 роки тому +24

    Carpet of flowers went up a while ago because it's a hugely popular CEDH card. Hopefully the reprint does push it down once march and the mystery boosters hit

  • @nolifeSnorlax
    @nolifeSnorlax 4 роки тому +25

    Dockside Extortionist is insane in Feather when you can blink it with your 'exile target creature till end of turn' protection stuff :D

  • @chubby_deity3143
    @chubby_deity3143 4 роки тому +45

    How can Josh use the argument of "timing" for the Sword of Feast and Famine but not have the same mindset for Dockside?

  • @RodrigoCML7
    @RodrigoCML7 4 роки тому +36

    A lot of good lessons from this episode but what stands out the most is “Zacama is good”

  • @escioe
    @escioe 4 роки тому +51

    The rings. Every time.
    Have Craig on more often. He's great.

    • @josephg279
      @josephg279 4 роки тому

      I noticed the rings immediately

  • @jaredwallick509
    @jaredwallick509 4 роки тому +22

    Holy cow, lord infect, it’s so cool to see him on the episode.

  • @whatsupdoc6358
    @whatsupdoc6358 4 роки тому +80

    I would love to see Craig's take on zurgo

    • @whatsupdoc6358
      @whatsupdoc6358 4 роки тому

      Helmsmasher

    • @iangratton6062
      @iangratton6062 4 роки тому +7

      @@whatsupdoc6358 Infect

    • @whatsupdoc6358
      @whatsupdoc6358 4 роки тому

      @@iangratton6062 hahaha well of course. I was wondering if he goes lots of equipment or no.

    • @Ryuka1993
      @Ryuka1993 4 роки тому +2

      Probably equipment based with a phyresis in there for good measure.

    • @puffin-onehandedgamer1164
      @puffin-onehandedgamer1164 4 роки тому +1

      @@Ryuka1993 that's brilliant, why didn't I think of this before, I own a Zurgo deck, of course you go infect. and with assault suit, then people die very quickly. slap on grafted exoskeleton and assault suit and watch your opponents kill each other with your zurgo, that's briliant

  • @jackpabich763
    @jackpabich763 4 роки тому +23

    15:30 Last time Carpet of flowers was $2 was 3 and a half years ago according to MTGGoldfish... Did spike recently between War and Throne , though. Was at like $15 at the time.

  • @Narabedla4
    @Narabedla4 4 роки тому +82

    30 ramp cards seems fine -tatyova

    • @MehrGills
      @MehrGills 4 роки тому +4

      30 ramp seems deece -Kozilek

    • @stephenweber3839
      @stephenweber3839 4 роки тому +5

      30 ramp cards are fine -every landfall based deck.

    • @redstonepro5412
      @redstonepro5412 4 роки тому +3

      10 ramp cards and 25 lands are fine - thrasios & tymna

    • @Narabedla4
      @Narabedla4 4 роки тому +1

      @@redstonepro5412 the decklists i see are more like 30 lands with 15 ramp, thrasios likes mana. (also stuff like 28 lands and 19 ramp)

    • @redstonepro5412
      @redstonepro5412 4 роки тому

      @@Narabedla4 nope, thrasios/tymna likes flashhulk and hermit druid without any basics in the deck

  • @PupusaBoy
    @PupusaBoy 4 роки тому +27

    How would you guys treat “K’rrik, son of Yawgmoth?”
    Also, one of my favourite cards for ramping is “Crypt Ghast.”

    • @PupusaBoy
      @PupusaBoy 4 роки тому +3

      Ninja Named Bob I was wondering if he should part of the 99 in my Teysa Karlov deck

    • @anthonymarciano6050
      @anthonymarciano6050 4 роки тому +1

      I will put krtik in any deck with black

    • @PupusaBoy
      @PupusaBoy 4 роки тому

      @Ninja Named Bob Ya I skew heavily towards black. Thanks!

    • @Khronogi
      @Khronogi 4 роки тому

      I've been constructing a Krrik deck that reliably gets him out by turn 2, sometimes turn 1. Then its just hope they dont have a kill spell and then pump out your win con in the proceeding turn.

  • @UndeadxPenguins
    @UndeadxPenguins 4 роки тому +16

    I love eclipse sleeves, but I find myself replacing them more often than Dragonshield because they get dirtier a lot faster.

    • @enderalex300
      @enderalex300 4 роки тому +7

      I know this is old af, but yeah that's why I stopped using Eclipses. I have, idk, sweatier fingers I guess? It sounds gross, but I think it makes the sleeves get sticky/dirty. But with the Dragonshield mattes, I don't have that problem at all, I can keep the sleeves on for months and not have to change them out. Eclipses last me a few weeks to a month before I have to slot them around. I prefer Eclipses in every other way, but they just do not feel good after a while so I can't use them unless it's a deck I barely play.

  • @dylanj2925
    @dylanj2925 4 роки тому +32

    Haven’t started yet and I’m already prepared to see 30 new cards that I want...

    • @muzunomi
      @muzunomi 4 роки тому +3

      And the 30 cards that skyrocket in price

  • @leress
    @leress 4 роки тому +19

    I think there needs to a new category: 'Batteries'. Ones that store mana for later, be it through phases or turns. I used the name based off the old mana batteries from Legends.

    • @Khronogi
      @Khronogi 4 роки тому +2

      Is that considered ramp though? You don't have access to more mana than you should, you simply have access to more mana on a later turn, but its the same mana you would have if you used it on something else.

    • @cha0sniper
      @cha0sniper 4 роки тому +2

      @@Khronogi In practice it ramps you, so I would say yes. It's not as good because you have to have mana that would otherwise be wasted, but not-as-good-ramp does not mean not-ramp

    • @justinjones5034
      @justinjones5034 4 роки тому +3

      Kinda like Runaway Steamkin?

    • @thulegezelschap5884
      @thulegezelschap5884 3 роки тому +1

      @@Khronogi i would say it is half ramp half fixer. It lets you use the coloured mana better next turn. They also bring a spell out a turn or two earlier which is basically spellramp

  • @megalithphul9542
    @megalithphul9542 4 роки тому +4

    Nice! this is probably the aspect of deckbuilding I've been struggling with the most and it's great to see Josh and Craig give their take on ramping.

  • @Quroe_
    @Quroe_ 4 роки тому +7

    I think a better question to ask than 'Is it ramp?' is 'Do I feel sad whenever I draw this card?'. If so, kick it from the deck.

  • @morganmchenry325
    @morganmchenry325 4 роки тому +24

    Something felt off when the episode started. Then I realized! No singing for Craig?

  • @jeremybrown4406
    @jeremybrown4406 4 роки тому +4

    I just wanted to call out one of my pet ramp cards, seedguide ash. Although it is five mana, the fact that it is a death trigger and can grab dual lands makes it pretty cool in multicolored sacrifice decks like Korvold and others. I just wanted to bring it up because it could be a good fit for others decks, especially sacrifice ones.

  • @mlow239
    @mlow239 4 роки тому +2

    Another card with the "may play an additional land each turn" clause is Mina and Denn, Wildborn. They're a little more restrictive because they're Gruul colors, but it's another option if you're in those colors.

  • @markc6571
    @markc6571 4 роки тому +15

    An episode like this, but on card draw would be awesome :D

  • @micheal5973
    @micheal5973 4 роки тому +52

    Last game friend had a turn one sol ring, mana vault and crypt. I was loling cause I had treasure nabber in my hand.... and then he wheeled and everyone flipped the table

  • @isaiahwelch8066
    @isaiahwelch8066 4 роки тому +5

    Honestly, Stoneseeder Hierophant is one of the best ramp creatures -- because if you time it right, you'll almost always be at a +2 mana advantage over opponents.

    • @gildarmesh3809
      @gildarmesh3809 4 роки тому

      and it works great with bounce double lands tap untap tap bounce untap and get 4 mana from just that one land play

  • @Slapthatham
    @Slapthatham 4 роки тому +2

    Omnath and Kruphix are not ramp by the definition. They are merely banks that allow you spend your mana more efficiently. Having the ability to store unspent mana means that (if planned around) you get to spend every bit of mana you've had available (past the turn you played them).

  • @ChainsawXIV
    @ChainsawXIV 4 роки тому +11

    Surprised not to hear Sword of the Animist mentioned here. I kind of expected a section on repeatable land fetch in general.

  • @Vote4Drizzt
    @Vote4Drizzt 4 роки тому +6

    Re: Star Wars
    I got super into the EU stuff, enjoyed the prequels and think the originals are great if overrated( they are flawed classics)
    I didn't/dont like the recent series because they voided the stories I loved and replaced them with stories that felt less creative and/or more aimed at folks who don't love Star Wars in the specific form that I do.
    I normally explain it as "Star Wars under Disney is pursuing a different customer base of which I am not a member"

  • @Kozi15
    @Kozi15 4 роки тому +19

    Talks about Ramp and Drawing cards
    Thrasios joined the chat

  • @AdamBacchus01
    @AdamBacchus01 4 роки тому +1

    The new banners at the bottom of the screen look AMAZING!! Seriously, they add a whole new level of polish that I was not expecting. Great choice!

  • @Arcdemon44
    @Arcdemon44 4 роки тому +4

    That is why I love commanders that have mana sinks on them, such as Kenrith or Thrasios.

  • @corvidcognition
    @corvidcognition 4 роки тому

    Very good episode and analysis on mana ramp. A lot of concepts like card advantage, threat assesment, politicking, etc are the "cream de la cream" of EDH and the more players start discovering and understanding the minutia of our format the more they will learn to cherish it. Thanks for the content. Much appreciated! Kudos from Southwestern France.

  • @zachnewman5566
    @zachnewman5566 4 роки тому +5

    Karametra: god of ramp
    Lord windgrace- manafixing and cars draw
    A couple ramp-y commanders 🤷🏻‍♂️

  • @MrHighlife1992
    @MrHighlife1992 4 роки тому +1

    I play bounce lands in basically all my decks that don't have green or white in them because I love them as an answer to song of the dryads/ imprisoned in the moon in colors that can't blow up enchantments. They're commonly played answers to commanders in my playgroup.

  • @Jay15199
    @Jay15199 4 роки тому +28

    "Mr. Infect?" How dare you refer to New Phyrexia's First Lord of Destruction like that?

  • @yugiohguy4543
    @yugiohguy4543 4 роки тому +2

    Dockside is just amazing. It scales really well and at a low CMC. The interaction with sabertooth elevates it to a combo piece letting it get used even more effectively in rg decks. Card is good at base and just wins at the ceiling.

  • @childodoom
    @childodoom 4 роки тому +19

    Me: My meal needs more salt?
    Craig: Um...in response.
    Me: Perfect

  • @picassodilly
    @picassodilly 4 роки тому +2

    I think there’s something to be said for using “land draw” cards in aggro decks that are low to the ground and curve out closer to 4,5,or 6.
    If you’re running fewer lands to get more gas, these kinds of cards are functionally equivalent to ramp- because you’re playing your gas early and running out of land drops.

  • @ecos889
    @ecos889 4 роки тому +5

    Elves best ramps just go for the dorks for budget green artifacts and rituals for everything else.
    Oh yeah and coffers and urborg for black.

  • @sea81793
    @sea81793 4 роки тому

    This video has changed my life. I haven't played more than five turns of my first commander deck, but before I attempt a 2nd match..I will be optimizing.

  • @dus65
    @dus65 4 роки тому +25

    I’m not sure I agree with how JLK describes “fixing”, or moreso why he related the two, the bigger confusion seems to be ramping vs not missing land drops aka having having lands in your hands.
    Also, I gotta disagree, if only in a corner case scenario sense, for decks that play off the top of the library in some capacity like Elsha, Yennett, Golos, Melek, Narset, etc, thinning out lands via something like a Mana Severance guarantees always having gas at the top of the library, which is great late game or if you’re doing some kind of storm build.

    • @ryancrites2021
      @ryancrites2021 4 роки тому +4

      I think this implication on thinning is defenitely true, but I dont know if that's what josh and Craig were referring to, in say elsha, you wouldn't play renegade map because you think getting one more basic out of the deck is going to keep gas for the rest of the game. Of course we can play mana severance because it enables the commander perfectly, but I see it as more a synergy piece rather than a "deck thinning" piece

    • @ryancrites2021
      @ryancrites2021 4 роки тому +3

      Totally agree with the fixing opinion tho, we play land tax in mono white because its card draw and the best consistent ramp I've got is not missing lands

    • @MrOfTheSea
      @MrOfTheSea 4 роки тому

      @@ryancrites2021 land tax does not ramp you though. It is a source of card draw, and that's it

    • @dus65
      @dus65 4 роки тому +1

      Ryan Crites yeah that’s fair, I think when I referred to “thinning” my mind immediately went back to very old school days in which people had solid 56 card decks and just ran baubles that cost 0 and drew you a card, which is a form of “thinning”. But yeah their implication is true. That being said I think the context of their comment was a little off in that the subject was fixing and not land drop consistency.

    • @dus65
      @dus65 4 роки тому +1

      Jon Dubois see that’s the nuance that I think they could’ve talked about a little more, but like I said in other comments, they just sorta took the easy way out and hung on green spells and artifact ramp as it applied to multi-colored decks. I think they should’ve just came out and said something along the lines of “unless you’re playing green, for the most part guaranteeing land drops is the closest you’ll get outside of a couple of colored mana rocks or colorless mana rocks”.

  • @mth4456
    @mth4456 4 роки тому

    So I usually listen to these on Spotify but I wanted to comment. I know most people hate the ads on these but the Be Scared podcast that was advertised is actually awesome. Thanks for the recommendation, I needed something non-magic related to listen to.

  • @psy_p
    @psy_p 4 роки тому +15

    "It doesn't matter cause it is really marginal"
    I guess someone need to hve a talk with Dana Roach.

  • @project_swift
    @project_swift 4 роки тому +1

    Cards that should probably be counted as rituals
    - Lotus Petal
    - Dockside Extortionist
    - Mana Vault
    - Grim Monalith
    - Basalt Monalith
    (Yes there are always exceptions, but a lot of the time, they are one-and-done)
    And rituals are FANTASTIC in strategies with insane amount of card draw.

  • @yurigodoy93
    @yurigodoy93 4 роки тому +8

    "I have a ton of mana... I have nothing to spend that mana on"
    That kinda resumes my Omnath, Locus of Mana deck lol

    • @shilohartisan
      @shilohartisan 4 роки тому +3

      Omnath loves Recycle. (pair with topdeck manipulators like Sensei's Divining top to get more value from it. Play Reliquary Tower or Spellbook or Praetor's Council to negate the downside of hand size limit)
      He also likes mana sinks like Rhonas the Indomitable. Mostly he loves Genesis Wave (might want a Boseiju for that, don't want it Mana Drained/Spell Swindled!)
      My favorite wincon in Omnath is Surestrike Trident.

  • @hikintrailsndrinkinales
    @hikintrailsndrinkinales 4 роки тому +1

    I use Thaumatic Compass in my Eldrazi deck. I’ve had it save my butt in early games when I have an opening hand with only 2 lands and a Sol Ring. It counts as one of my ramp cards, then has the added bonus of being a Maze of Ith in the late game.

  • @landen5562
    @landen5562 4 роки тому +10

    Y’all should do a battle of kings
    Brago, king eternal vs korvold, fae-cursed king vs sedris, the traitor king vs Darien, king of kjeldor.

    • @LogoMotive11
      @LogoMotive11 4 роки тому

      Don't forget King Macar and King Kenrith

    • @mhf187
      @mhf187 4 роки тому

      No love for Kenrith?

    • @Unraveled.Strigoi
      @Unraveled.Strigoi 4 роки тому +1

      There's also the tymerat the murder king

  • @nikolasversteeg
    @nikolasversteeg 4 роки тому

    I think the part around 33:25 really stood out to me.
    Ramp is based heavily on the cmc of your commander. If it's 1-3, you want to play a bunch of dorks that can get it out faster.
    If it's 4-7 or something you want to start playing those double drops, vegoes, skyshroud, etc.
    If it's 8+ you want to start playing the bigger ones like thran dynamo and gilded lotus.

  • @johnsmith-vw4yb
    @johnsmith-vw4yb 4 роки тому +20

    What about Nissa, Who Shakes the World literally get all forests

    • @academicace
      @academicace 4 роки тому +3

      She only gets them if she's left alone for multiple turns running, and if your opponents can't threaten your board for that long, then you were already going to win (unless you play Doubling Season first, in which case, you're just arguing that Doubling Season makes other card broken).

  • @BIGFRANKOL75
    @BIGFRANKOL75 2 роки тому

    1:12:35 early game it all comes down to if you are going last. Turn 2 many decks at least have one mana rock to ramp unless they are green. So you would net at the very least 1 treasure if not more. Then if you are playing white or blue you can Flicker it or copy the creature for more mana. this will help ramp these colors very well.

  • @chibichanga1849
    @chibichanga1849 4 роки тому +4

    48:35 When Josh says Mirari's Wake is an exception here, does he mean he counts Mirari's Wake as Ramp? I think Mirari's Wake is *much* closer to Savage Ventmaw than it is to more typical 'ramp' cards. They don't make your deck run well the way typical ramp cards can by advancing you through early turns. Rather on later turns, if they survive a turn cycle, they give a big burst of mana that can end the game. I would not count either of them for the target '10 ramp cards'.
    Edit: Seedborn Muse, which they talk about later, is in this category, too. I wouldn't count it as ramp.
    Edit2: 1:01:23 I think here we really get at my issue with some of the stuff they're talking about. I think just because a card produces mana, maybe even a lot of mana, doesn't make it ramp for the purposes of deck building. Making a bunch of mana late in the game is functionally different from investing in mana producers early in the game. The '10 ramp spells' target should pretty much all be aimed at doing the latter. That's their function in the deck and what makes the deck feel good to play. In my opinion.

  • @EthanKTufts
    @EthanKTufts 4 роки тому

    Like the design choice of the bar at the bottom. It looks professional and compartamentalizes the conversation

  • @TimChanMusic
    @TimChanMusic 4 роки тому +3

    Ooh useful as always, thanks Command Zone. Time to add this to the Essential Must Watch Collection

  • @theguywiththetail
    @theguywiththetail 4 роки тому

    I believe that anything that would get you more mana than you would normally have can be considered ramp. There's temporary ramp and permanent ramp. Some cards can just be made to ramp better in certain decks, like crucible, or omnath, or cryptolith. Definitely informative and gives me a better understanding of how I should be looking at certain cards plus I got to see cards I didn't know about.

  • @Arrowatch
    @Arrowatch 4 роки тому +3

    I didn't watch this just to learn, though I did. I also watched it to find new ideas for ramp.

  • @shilohartisan
    @shilohartisan 4 роки тому +2

    I've been tryna tell people that land auras are way good. The most underplayed card didn't get mentioned here: Urban Burgeoning. It costs 1 mana, gives 3 mana per turn cycle, is always usable the same turn cycle you play it, and doesn't need to be played on an untapped land. That's the minimum. If you play it on an already enchanted land, or Lotus Field, Lotus Vale, Scorched Ruins, Cradle, Itlimoc, Coffers, Nykthos, Bouncelands, etc etc etc. then you get far more value from it.
    The downside is of course that it gives you it's mana only 1/3 at a time, and only on other people's turns. But what deck doesn't hold up mana for instants or activated abilities often enough to make this worth it? Very few I would argue.
    A downside to land enchantments in general is the chance to get 2-for-1'd if someone destroys your land. In metas that run a lot of Stripmine effects it will be more dangerous. But I will point out that Lotus Field protects against this, and triples the effect of Urban Burgeoning. If your deck only has 1 or 2 colors, or if you have effects that untap a land, you should consider Lotus Field and if you have green then definitely run Urban Burgeoning too. (untap target land effects is huge huge huge and there are so many of them I won't even go into it here. also, when we're talking about Urban Burgeoning you have to remember that mana doublers, anything that makes lands tap for more, will become mana 6x multipliers on the Urban Burgeoning land.
    Then we need to compare the general resilience of Enchantments VS Artifacts VS Creatures VS Lands. Lands of course are the most resilient of these. No arguments there. But I would say Enchantments are second. If I had the choice between Arcane Signet or Arcane Signet on an enchantment I'd take the enchantment. There are ways to deal with enchantments, but I think they're a little less common than ways to deal with artifacts. Most land enchantments aren't oppressive enough to draw hate anyway even if someone has the enchantment removal to play.
    There are enchantment board wipes, but again, I don't think they're more common than artifact board wipes. Anyway, all things considered I'd say LAND>Nonaura Enchantment>Artifact=Aura>Creatures>non-permanent(like rituals) is the overall hierarchy of ramp resilience.
    But for pure value and efficiency you just can't beat them. Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl cost 1, give 1 per turn, and in some cases can be used the turn they are played. That beats any dork, and any artifact other than Sol Ring (legalmoxen, mana vault, mana crypt all have other downsides but I'll concede that Crypt for sure can be added to Sol Ring for the purpose of this sentence) and Mana Crypt.
    The most efficient land ramp spells are Nature's Lore/Three Visits which cost 2, give 1 per turn, can be used the turn they're played, and can color fix if you have Duals or Shocks. Cultivate/Kodama's cost 1 more, give you added card advantage, but can't be used the turn they're played, and can't grab duals. (though they still color fix with basic land selection). Land enchantments beat those for raw initial value and efficiency.
    Utopia Sprawl, Wild Growth, Fertile Ground are played a lot more than other aura's, but still not nearly enough IMO. They're all amazing. Trace Abundance is limited by color identity, but shroud is also a downside because it means you can't enchant the land again (with Urban Burgeoning for instance) bure more importantly you can't untap it with any "untap target land" effects. Overgrowth is definitely all about the green. might not want it outside of mono green or maybe 2 color decks, but it's 3 that taps for 2 each turn, sometimes can be used on the turn it's played. Elvish Guidance is of course only for elf/shapeshifter decks. Wellspring is a fun interactive card that can grab you the most powerful land on the battlefield.
    4 cmc and up I will admit isn't really early game ramp so I won't address any of those.
    But the moral to this story is: look at the land enchantments again. Especially Urban Burgeoning.

  • @JoeGrzzly
    @JoeGrzzly 4 роки тому +6

    Every time Josh said "Ramp means Reliable And..." I was hoping he'd create an acronym. Like Ramp means Reliability And Mana Progression.

    • @shorewall
      @shorewall 4 роки тому

      Someone above said Reliable Accelerating Mana Production.

  • @Valkyrinn
    @Valkyrinn 4 роки тому

    My favorite ramp card is Harrow. It's simple, it's instant speed which can trigger landfall twice on other people's turns, it can get certain lands into the graveyard (like Flagstones of Trokair or Riftstone Portal or something enchanted with Imprisoned in the Moon), the lands enter untapped so it's like only spending one mana instead of three, and it gives you more accessible lands if you have Crucible of Worlds effects or other graveyard recursion effects. It also has a sweet textless version.

  • @willo3660
    @willo3660 4 роки тому +3

    The way the lady says elder dragon highlander validates me

  • @r0hz
    @r0hz 4 роки тому

    I would categorize them this way:
    Mana Ramp - Gives you access to more mana than you would have if you gain 1 mana each turn.
    Conditional Mana Ramp - Mana Ramp only if certain conditions are met.
    Mana Fixing - Allows you to consistently gain 1 mana each turn.
    Mana Filtering - Manipulate mana to your desired color.
    Mana Recovery - Regain lost mana during your turn or an opponent's turn.
    Mana Reduction - Reduce mana requirements of certain spells.
    Obviously, certain cards can apply to multiple categories based on use.

  • @heinousrat9019
    @heinousrat9019 4 роки тому +7

    dockside extortionist made my opponent sac 36 smothering tithe treasure tokens and play nothing. also I count him as a better ritual and treasure nabber as a lightning rod.

  • @ehallam08
    @ehallam08 4 роки тому

    I'm really glad you guys did an episode on this. Lot of decks seem like they'd be better with more mana rocks. Personally I try to jam all the rocks I can into anything I play. Nice to know that you don't always need em.

  • @philipdaviddavies9478
    @philipdaviddavies9478 4 роки тому +18

    why does craig have so many rings on?
    Is this guy a baller IRL?

    • @BaikenAndEggs
      @BaikenAndEggs 4 роки тому +17

      They're used to capture the souls of those he defeats with infect.

    • @anthonymarciano6050
      @anthonymarciano6050 4 роки тому +1

      I like the phyrexian one. I dont think i could pull it off but i like it

    • @anthonymarciano6050
      @anthonymarciano6050 4 роки тому +8

      Considering the cards he has he probably is a baller

    • @coryledwitch6492
      @coryledwitch6492 4 роки тому +1

      He only needs 1 to rule them all

    • @josephg279
      @josephg279 4 роки тому +1

      He is secretly thanos

  • @timothylaveau
    @timothylaveau 4 роки тому

    Allot of ramp is determined by deck building and synergy as you guys said.
    Magus of candlabera is ramp in my budget 5 & 4 color decks. With a healthy amount of karoo bounce lands and enchant land ramp, Magus can reliably net me mana. It also doubles as fixing in decks without fetches and shocks.

  • @ryanduffy45
    @ryanduffy45 4 роки тому +7

    1:18:06 I don't know why I've never noticed this before but doesn't that look like a Sol Ring Treasure Nabber is holding?

  • @HAYDS510
    @HAYDS510 11 місяців тому

    re: Omnath, There's tremendous value in being able to sit on mana so that you can play something the next turn that you might otherwise not have had access to for ages. That higher cost spell then exponentially augments other aspects of game-stage progression better than any two things that could've been done for half the cost on both turns. Ontop of that, sitting on mana boosts Omnath as if you'd spent it anyway enchanting him, giving you a taller creature by the virtue of playing nothing and it's there to pay for instants. If you can afford to spend less up front, that reserve mana is also going to unlock more efficient/bigger responses down the line when you really need it. So you're always doing something even when you're not, and for half the price. putting one BIG/BIG on the field can give you much more options than having a small/small and a medium/medium for green. Then by the time you dump that mana into something, you'll generally have more sources of ramp to rebuild faster & faster.

  • @penguwave4025
    @penguwave4025 4 роки тому +5

    The lower thirds look AMAZING!

    • @mercystreetcjc
      @mercystreetcjc 4 роки тому

      Penguwave this is an underrated observation.

  • @coinswaptrader2915
    @coinswaptrader2915 4 роки тому

    A ramp card GROWS your mana base!
    Also an early Temple of the false God goes well with "Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth" or with a "Riftstone Portal"...these lands can also help you use your glacial chasm or maze of Ith for mana!

  • @patonnight
    @patonnight 4 роки тому +15

    I'm just gonna mention one card: Surveyor's Scope

  • @namejeppe7
    @namejeppe7 4 роки тому

    I usually Also split my ramp into "early" ramp and "push over the top" ramp. Early is what helps you get started, signets, rampant growth, cultivate, wild growth ect, getting the commander out early, and keeping up. Then I have a few ramp cards that can be a bit more expensive on the mana curve like miarris wake, cradle (growing rites of itlamog), Even counting the rocks that produce 3 Mana, gilded lotus, thran dynamo and Even rituals. Ofc you have to use the right cards in the right deck.
    I found that this "rule of thump" makes for Better decks/ games, always keeping me in the game, and allowing me to explode when the time is right. This Also force me to Play like 13-16 ramp spells in all my decks, but realizing this was my biggest level up moment of 2019 😁

  • @jeffwren7815
    @jeffwren7815 4 роки тому +14

    "Deck thinning isn't a thing" -cough- Mana severence for 35 -cough-

    • @Layjus123
      @Layjus123 4 роки тому +5

      Yeah..I have no clue why he would say thinning your deck doesn't help when it reduces the odds of drawing specific cards. I DO notice a difference in the quality of my draws when I have fetch lands in my deck and tutors and that it definitely is a better quality of draws.

    • @GollyGoshSensation
      @GollyGoshSensation 4 роки тому +3

      I'm a Fish Tutors are not deck thinning. They are tutors. Deck thinning is already minuscule in a 60 card deck that is hardly noticeable. So a 99 card deck is far less. While it does exist you won’t notice it enough for the amount of money it costs.

    • @chortlesinthecorner
      @chortlesinthecorner 4 роки тому

      @@GollyGoshSensation Dollar for dollar fetches don't hold up compared to tutors or bombs, but if it's the last piece of the puzzle then I'm going to go for it... Of course I'd much rather have 5 really fun decks to have around that are 90%-95% "finished" than one perfect deck.

    • @leress
      @leress 4 роки тому

      @@Layjus123 There has been various articles about the math behind why 'deck thinning' is very marginal.

    • @hwfjj1989
      @hwfjj1989 4 роки тому +1

      Best way to thin a deck is to draw more cards

  • @oatmealbro6977
    @oatmealbro6977 4 роки тому

    Dockside is a sweet card. It's striking a lot of check boxes at once.
    Low cmc, acts as a ritual in a pinch, can be used as a battery for a following turn, and acts as a combo piece to win the game. It's a really fun clone/reanimation target! It even has synergy with artifact strategies or specific generals like Korvold.
    It's one weakness is it's reliance on your meta/current pod.

  • @Ragmesesis
    @Ragmesesis 4 роки тому +23

    "JUST UNBAN TOLARIAN ACADEMY"👍👍👍👍👍👍 DO IT!!!

    • @unbanrofellos5786
      @unbanrofellos5786 4 роки тому +1

      Yesssss!!!

    • @kremlinhighlander4147
      @kremlinhighlander4147 4 роки тому +3

      Yeah. Its been really tough for poor poor blue in commander, we ought to unbane it to even the odds.

    • @unbanrofellos5786
      @unbanrofellos5786 4 роки тому +1

      @@kremlinhighlander4147 couldnt have put it better myself ;)

    • @unbanrofellos5786
      @unbanrofellos5786 4 роки тому

      @@kremlinhighlander4147 oh and prophet of kruphix please

    • @kremlinhighlander4147
      @kremlinhighlander4147 4 роки тому +1

      If we're just throwing cards we want unbanned out, can I have Balance, Limited Resources, Karakas and Iona back?

  • @markusbombadil6665
    @markusbombadil6665 4 роки тому +1

    Favorite Enchantment Ramp ->Wellspring/Annex on a cradle or something.
    And Seedborn Muse is nuts in my Omnath, Locus of Mana Deck, not even fair.

  • @TheFirstTriplefife
    @TheFirstTriplefife 4 роки тому +4

    When it comes to the "Is it ramp or not?" question, it can be more defined as hard and soft ramp. A lot of the ramp they shown in this section should be considered soft ramp. All the other normal types are hard ramp.

  • @Overi4096
    @Overi4096 Рік тому

    My favourite ramp is Everflowing Chalice.
    In most scenarios it's +1 colorless for 2 mana value, but it's often casted for 4 mana if I ramped on on turn 2. Sometimes in late game if mana is my limiting factor I can risk and dump all of it into kicking the chalice for 6-8 mana. Also it can be cast for 0 in a storm decks, or if I just need artifact synergy. The flexibility makes it alot more interesting than boring rocks pay2-get1.

  • @Djarkness
    @Djarkness 4 роки тому +5

    Yeah, but picture this: Dockside Extortionist plus Mycosynth Lattice.

  • @howzany6832
    @howzany6832 4 роки тому

    Thank you guys for doing this video! This is such a HUGE help and a huge part of the game, so everything said here is pretty much MtG Commander format Gold.

  • @TheHutt0326
    @TheHutt0326 4 роки тому +20

    16:50 "Sol ring is universally considered the most powerful card in the history of magic."
    Not sure what universe you're living in

    • @westmafiasector8136
      @westmafiasector8136 4 роки тому +12

      JoshuaTheHutt he probably meant in all of commander

    • @lokirip2372
      @lokirip2372 4 роки тому

      He's living in Ravnica

    • @oliver5732
      @oliver5732 4 роки тому

      @@DixonCameronS Mana Crypt is just better than Sol Ring in EDH

    • @Zac_Craig-Claveau
      @Zac_Craig-Claveau 4 роки тому +2

      I think it's a toss up between Sol R. Ancestral Recall and Black Lotus. Probably Lotus, then recall, then Sol

    • @MehrGills
      @MehrGills 4 роки тому

      Commander

  • @IanHarding12
    @IanHarding12 4 роки тому

    An invaluable episode to players looking to up their deck-building skills. Loved this one.

  • @andrelee7081
    @andrelee7081 4 роки тому +3

    When it comes to bounce lands, I do run them sometimes, but wouldn't really consider them as ramp. It falls under "color-fixing" to me. Personally, I wouldn't play one unless I really needed the colors or it was the only land in my hand.

    • @MehrGills
      @MehrGills 4 роки тому

      It's really card draw

    • @LowellEitelberg
      @LowellEitelberg 4 роки тому

      I agree they are not ramp but they play really interesting rolls. I have a mardu, artifact matters, 5cmc or under, reanimator deck. Bounce lands are key to my strategy. Every game i get a bounce land, im able to discard to handsize and reanimate what i discarded at a fraction of its cost. They also maintain my hand size when have trouble drawing cards and allow me to hit all my land drops. In the right deck a full set of bouncelands can add so much.

    • @ykl1277
      @ykl1277 4 роки тому

      I play bounceland if I want to reset one of my utility lands, esp if I can tutor for it. Having 1 where it is +1 card is worth, but I've gone from play every bounce to play it only for specific reasons.

  • @matthewtaylor6829
    @matthewtaylor6829 4 роки тому

    My new favourite ramp card is Beanstalk Giant. Standard rate for land ramp, comes in untapped, and a nice big creature who takes advantage of it.
    I was watching this while building Tatyova, it was really helpful!

  • @tomjung2750
    @tomjung2750 4 роки тому +4

    I play a bunch of enchantment ramp in my estrid deck, its so goooddd

  • @IronGlorfindel
    @IronGlorfindel 4 роки тому

    I like the bounce lands because not only is it card advantage in colors that struggle with that, it can also put you up to 8 cards in hand, letting you pitch a reanimator target to the grave.

  • @RntLnr
    @RntLnr 4 роки тому +5

    Carpet of Flowers (and every other cEDH staple) has spiked like crazy in the past few months

    • @mellowasiam
      @mellowasiam 4 роки тому +2

      cEDH is getting more exposure it seems

  • @davidcollins3906
    @davidcollins3906 4 роки тому +2

    I guess Tithe and Gift of Estates don't count as ramp but 2 of my favs. You can go get plains. Any land that says plains. Duel, shock, cycling. Should've been mentioned.

  • @BigBob1172
    @BigBob1172 4 роки тому +4

    I’m sad I didn’t hear anything on Nyxthos

  • @donnasprague767
    @donnasprague767 4 роки тому

    Very much enjoyed the layed back tone of the episode with Craig. Kruphix feels like ramp when you play it, or against it

  • @fryinryan01
    @fryinryan01 4 роки тому +18

    ALL HAIL LORD INFECT

  • @aaronbauder4598
    @aaronbauder4598 4 роки тому

    I have my Dockside extortionist in my Feather the Redeemed deck due to my large amount of blink and flicker effects in the deck. I have found it to be very useful in that deck especially as I can use a treasure that dockside created to use my blink and flicker effects on each players turn and come back to my turn with more than enough mana to do whatever I need to do with no fear of running out of mana.

  • @TheRealCJ88
    @TheRealCJ88 4 роки тому +4

    Swole lee kwai's arms are starting to intimidate me. Man looks like he was stung by bodybuilder bees.

    • @faerie7dragon
      @faerie7dragon 4 роки тому +1

      He is just stacking those +1/+1 counters.

  • @infamous0ne789
    @infamous0ne789 4 роки тому

    48:10 This card is incredible in Xenagos! A few days ago, i used this to cast See the Unwritten and flipped Malignus and Thunderfoot Baloth onto the battlefield. Infinite attack steps with Aggravated Assault. Cast a monstrous Rishkar's Expertise and flip Chandra's Ignition. it is definitely ramp!

  • @FaytVanguard
    @FaytVanguard 4 роки тому +4

    They only talked about Treasure for like 16 seconds in a hour and a half video.... I feel these guys are biased. 18:20 (kinda skipping the topic entirely)

    • @vindorin
      @vindorin 4 роки тому +1

      Yeah, I've been feeling a lot of misinfo on this channel...

    • @FaytVanguard
      @FaytVanguard 4 роки тому +1

      @@vindorin not misinfo... just tons of biased.... Like they didn't talk about fixing white that much during the fixing white episode.
      They just didn't lie about their biased.

    • @bigpuma2149
      @bigpuma2149 4 роки тому

      Trent Vickers I feel that like I used a white deck and I completely thought it was weak and it was really good and was really fun

  • @jaishivajai
    @jaishivajai 4 роки тому

    Temple of the False God is nearly always good in a heavy green deck. Sometimes you have to add a "land" slot for temple when you KNOW you're going to hit that 5th land easy. Also worth considering if you run Exploration Map in non-green decks. Temple is AMAZING, sometimes. Just don't consider it a land and only run it in decks you know will get to that 5th land drop early, or decks that you know want to ramp hard.
    Once I put Temple into "This is not a land" in my mind, everything was smooth sailing.