A thing that would make it instantly useful is giving it a range finder. Useful for the marksman himself, useful for the unit, giving them a standout teamwork focused ability.
Honestly marksman is underrated after ICO, pre ICO yeah they kinda were just a crappier rifleman but afterwards marksman can be a great asset, they’re like a machine gunner that relies on accuracy over suppression to keep the enemy from getting your guys.
Yeah, honestly, even missed shots can seriously alter the outcome of a firefight. If you hit near an enemy, they are almost certain to move away from that vantage point. Once I even pushed a whole squad back. Sometimes you just find a great spot on a hill and have that perfect moment where you kill four people and the rest run.
@ddontyy i mean its war, so it kind of is all about kills. They key is where the kills are happening and what they allow the team to do. If you're on defence i dont think any kill is a wasted kill.
nah it was so much better before ico. Your ability to see is significantly diminished and hampers the role significantly compared to the old role when you had appropriate scope magnifications and the entire screen wasnt a blur.
I don't play Squad, but I would love to hear that as a new player, though Bro sounds someone that has no tolerance for any crap, but will genuinely help you out if you reach out to him
I've actually been in a squad with that guy a couple times. He's overall a very good SL but yeah, if you start bullshitting in squad voice he'll just kick you.
As a new player who is currently still learning what type of decision making is valuable, I heavily benefit from being ordered about like an RTS unit! Any squad leader that gives me plenty to do and jingles the keys to keep me from wandering off ensures that I have the best possible experience. o7
The drawback with the marksman kit is the opportunity cost. You sacrifice a fire support kit (LAT/AR/GL) for it so it has to be as effective as those kits to be worth the pick. Also RAAS isn't truly random, and I've never been a huge fan of a skill curve that's based on memorization over adaptability, so I don't mind if the commander is preparing the team for the next fight.
My thoughts exactly. If the objectives were truly random and squad lanes gave a major advantage then I might have a problem with it but players just memorize anyway so who cares
Most of the time those kits are usually already taken so you really aren't sacrificing anything unless you're rocking 6 or less in a squad. The true drawback with marksmen is that they're terribly disadvantaged at close range and can't do much when surrounded. It's a really useful kit in the right hands, but most players don't position themselves properly when using it.
This is how I've been saying marksmen need to play. Well done - marksman can be a desirable alternative to MGs that focus much more on precision and killing that volume of fire and suppression, but it takes a combination of a lot of different skills that most new players aren't equipped with.
If you want catchphrases for being a marksmen like that you gotta go back to Command and Conquer Generals/Zero Hour. Gotta use the pathfinder lines. when he calls for you answer “Scope cleaned and mounted” or “I’ll be your spotter” if he gives a move order respond “hope no one’s looking”, “ getting a better view” or “they won’t notice me” when told to engage respond with “leaving no trace”. There’s a ton of lines for you to use. All of them on point and slightly sarcastic in the context of this video lol
I played with another RB Squad Lead who read the same script lol, he was the best SL I've ever had though. He got a bunch of random dudes to bound onto a point through an open field in Skorpo and we took the point when none of the other squads could.
@nickgadsen4029 I think you are missing a point that Squad is a MILI-SIM. Of course, there are different ways to lead your team. But that's the beauty of a video game. If you don't like your squad leader or squad mates, then you are more than welcome to leave and join a new one.
@@nickgadsen4029 Honestly that SL was really good, Problem with it in most games is that an SL is trying to manage a bunch of people with likely zero military training to work as a team so some micro management is necessary. Most players will not do bounding movement by default etc. so telling each fireteam to when to move and to where can help with not over extending. As long as the SL is not being a cunt and not asking for the impossible/what he wouldn't do himself then its not bad. In proper milsim teams you won't experience this as most milsim players/teams will have basic competency in tactical movement so they don't need to be as micro managed.
So, the marksman kit isn't used at the ranges it's designed to be, and realistically the maps might be a bit small, and the objectives change rapidly and are a bit too close for the marksman kits to be real useful. Realistically, marksman can most effectively do recon down valuable flanks and hold it cover friend pushes through that flanking lanes, but that could probably be equally well done by an MG gunner.
Exactly what I do. Get behind enemy lines, disrupt troop flow to the front. Hold chokepoints like bridges and crossings. I stopped an entire charge because the enemy had to keep prone all the time (didn’t work) which allowed our team to reinforce. Had like 19 takedowns (9 killed) by the end. A lot of times they get mad at me because “I am not close to them”, but completely disregard the fact that I’m providing covering fire and am an actually really helpful. Sometimes you can’t get a good position which really sucks though. Shrubbery is your best friend.
Marksman are the squads support. They take out big threads and assists where the rest of the squad struggles. Most seem to confuse this role with a lone wolf sniper. I love being a marksman. Was it a long time in the Arma 3 realism unit I played.
Squad palyers: marksman is trash, all it has is a scope, there is no ammo, no nades, no nothing. Also squad palyers: Scoped rifleman is the best class, who needs nades anyway, the scope is so useful, supression? i just kill the enemy, I only wish it had a bipod.
A scoped rifle allows to engage the enemy at longer distances while still providing effectiveness in close quarters. It's only a 4x scope on an assault rifle/carbine. Rifleman isn't the best class because all it does is carry an ammo pouch that needs to be replenished anyways, while most of the other classes use the same effective scoped weapon while doing their jobs. Marksman is terrible because it provides no team value, the zoom is excessive for any combat alongside the squad, the weapon is made for long range shots which require good positioning in advance. Due to how fast teams push most of the time versus the time it would take to climb up a nearby hill, the benefit rather plays out. Most people with that kit want to go do their own thing instead of playing with the squad.
So I like to run a squad of three for marksman. Especially on more urban maps. As a small squad it is a lot easier to sneak into a town or into a random building. From there you simply gain intel and as other squads come up your squad leader shares information on the enemy, and the marksman watches their weakpoints on approach. The third guy normally is just a medic/infantry man. He is there to help everyone stay up and to help everyone move from one building to the next incase of gunfight. As long as it is only one squad doing this and they actually communicate and stay towards POIs it can be super useful. The other thing is try not to kill people unless you have to, or it's a big target such as the commander. You are only there for intel, and supportive fire. If you do fire and kill someone or miss, move. You've had plenty of time and should have a second maybe even third position in mind in case of emergency. The other way I like to use marksman is as a single person. You put him in a squad that is going to be more on the back line. This way the information he shares isn't overwhelming or too irrelevant then the squad leader distributes his information as needed. You hop onto a heli or a transport vehicle and just hop out at a different spot than everybody else. You then try to walk on the edge of combat zones taking shots when it has significant value. And sharing all the information you have. One other thing to keep in mind is that when you are fighting you may not be great at causing in gam suppression, but you do cause people to have to take cover from another angle. So flank out far to another side from the rest of your squad. Try to hit people who are hiding from them, but aren't from you. They will inevitably corner themselves because they are getting shot from multiple directions, but because you are one guy you have the advantage of being able to continuously move without being caught or killed, especially if you take one or two shots then instantly move. Just to be clear I play on midded servers most of the time so the squad requirements can be different. On other servers we try to do the same thing, we normally just have the fireteams function as smaller squads. Or we tell them to support another squad that needs help or may need help.
I love how people hate on squadlanes/squadmaps, instead of realizing these tools wouldn't be needed if OWI had designed decent layers from the beginning. There are, thankfully, increasingly more maps with layers that are basically a random selection between 4-6 possible points for every single step, and 30-50 possible points in total (Those are the ones that look like someone just barfed points all over the map when you open them in squadmaps). With these, there is basically no advantage to having squadmaps and, to me, these are the only "R"AAS layers that really deserve the name. Unfortauntely, there are still MANY maps/layers that feature either (a) a very small number of possible points to being with, making it play just like AAS, (b) feature lots of points at the start/end but only 1-2 possible points for the middle point (so both teams just rush the middle, again, esentially making it AAS), or (c) feature lots of possible points, but have a "lane" logic that means that after the first 1-2 point, you know exactly where things are going (these do play a bit differently from AAS, but give insane advantage to using squadmaps, and especially the team that first figures out where the points are going). There's a category of especially bad offenders (imho) in the last category, and those are maps with an assymetry. If you look at Black Coast RAAS, Team 2 up north has only a single possible first point, so learns no additional information until after capping that. Meanwhile, Team 1 have three possible positions for the first point, and if they see, e.g., Pond Junction or VLF Array as they spawn in, they know basically the entire point layout immediately, while Team 2 is still entirely in the dark. In fact, in 66% of rounds played on this layer, TEAM 1 KNOWS WHERE TEAM 2's SECOND POINT WILL BE BEFORE TEAM 2 KNOWS IT. I think layers like Black Coast RAAS v2 are a huge part of the squadlanes/squadmap hate, but really it's just absolutely atrocious game design from OWI.
That SL has some real tour guide vibes going on at the beginning. lol Wish I leaders like that back in my MilSim days. I often had those weird wannabe police/military guys that dropped out irl but acted like they´re the General. Was a fun time though.
Marksman is secretly one of the most effective infantry when it comes to stopping a push in invasion. Invasions layers like Talli and Al Basrah which have open fields for the attackers to push are just asking for it. Anvil is great too with the high top sides and the objectives being being the middle of the canyon.
Marksman and AR (and sometimes GL) are generally supposed to be used to target enemy MGs. MGs and a fireteam of riflemen are the two weapons of a Squad (and therefor of the SL). MGs>riflemen/GL>markmen/AR>MGs Other specialties are for certain missions and types of support, but when not doing those, they act as riflemen.
being micromanaged by a squadlead ruins the game so easily. an SLs job is to relay missions from command and provide logistic resources, the squad's job is to analyze their individual scenario to plan how to accomplish the provided mission. the most direct guidance that i always want to provide is that a huge majority of the time, concealment is much better than cover. and also stop building habs on different floors than ground level. the radio can go on the top floor or basement or whatever, the hab needs to be able to escaped from instantly... but that one is just yelling at other squad leads - not giving infantry directions. btw youre totally correct about squadlanes, same with the mortar calculators
As a squad leader, ide prefer if nobody had access to squad maps. HOWEVER, i will not put my self at a disadvantage if i know others are probably using it.
You know despite being a hardass i can completely understand why the SL does the whole scipt at the start (not sure if he did a mic check prior). The number of times i had SLs not give a damn and we get completely steamroled due to lack of coordination is frustrating especially when you wanna win. By doing this, people who arent intrested just leave the squad and leaves people who actually wanna play for the team and giving the warning that if you f around youll get kicked is something i encourage other SLs to practice since a random medic not doing their job can lose you a game. BTW the way you play marksman is exactly as i expect a marksman to play as. I usually give them FTL and to go ahead of the team to watch for any potential enemies in the area and to mark shit since i dont expect them to get many kills but to provide overwatch and callouts for the team.
I wanna say Squadlanes ruins the game, but without it the game is about memorizing, and that's not fun either. It should just be implemented into the game. Everyone sees the possible points but no one knows which one it is. Problem solved for everyone
This is already a feature if you click the little information symbol when voting it will show all the possible points that counts for all game modes altho I dont know about insurgency
@@dna_upper1622 yeah but i want exactly that feature to be implemented in the round itself, if you miss to look during voting time you fu..ed up basically
@Grimbolt But at that point in the game it's all about camping the next obj and and stomping your enemies into the dirt personally I like the system the way it is currently forcing the team to be quick and adaptive while fighting
Even before the lanes were showed, I would argue squadlanes was beneficial as it would close the gap between veterans who memorized the points anyways and newer players
On certain maps marksmen can be OP if played right, in Narva I played a round as a marksman on the tall building besides train depot. 29 kills, marking enemies and locking down the point. Very useful IMO in a situation like that
I think a lot of people don't understand the main problem. The problem is that it provides no extra value that some other kit can provide. The magnification isn't that much better than a regular scope and you are going to have a difficult time killing unless you're bipoded. People say that the scope helps with recon, but if you want to do recon take a kit with binos... they're literally better at gathering information... Another huge reason that people don't consider is that the marksman is a fire support role, which you only get to have 3 of in your squad. A marksman means you can't bring double AT and a grenadier or AT, grenadier and a MG - compromising to allow for the marksman slot. I would say sniper kits are more viable but in general marksman kit doesn't add anything to your squad and due to the weapons you're forced to play far back, unable to quickly rotate if needed.
I haven’t played this game or seen gameplay since before my back surgery July last year. My computer took a shit and I haven’t been able to play it can’t work to even replace it lmao life’s wild. Glad this popped up in my feed. Miss this game a lot.
I started playing marksman around 2 hrs into the game, and have kept doing it. Now, at around 50 hrs i have played sniper on a snow map (one w/giant airport in the middle) and hit a 700+ meter shot from the top of a m-2 browning on a moving enemy SL. Love the marksman/sniper kit.
Marksman usually is my FTL leader for my gun group which covers my assault group. They have good spotting abilities and can snipe other snipers for my MG. But if they stray without a good explanation they get the boot, go play cawahdoody, hehe.
Lot of people don't understand that the Marksman kit is best used to area deny(any treeline or open area) or use deny (Mortar Fob). Continuously rotate after every kill and since you have the Alpha damage and surprise factor you should win every engagement, and when they send a whole squad after you, you just hide in a bush and wait for them to leave before harassing the mortars again...if a whole squad is wasting their time on one player you are removing them from the fight, and if it's a mortar fob you are also preventing them from using the mortars, essentially removing them completely from the game which is often 5+ players. When I play marksman, especially on parachute mods like Global Escalation, I have a heli drop me near enemy mortar fobs and completely deny them...I've also wiped out Mortar Carrier's and mortar carrier fobs because I find the radio and then kill the mortar carrier player, then hop on their TOW missile they had emplaced and kill the mortar carrier and their logi they had parked... It's also useful when offset from the squad to spot threats before they reach and to pick off people during the intense firefight that may commence between the two parties.... One marksman bullet can easily kill and is a lot less noticeable than 3 shots from a rifleman. Autorifleman/Machine Gunners can NOT perform the same duty because bipods are often a nuisance to set up, so they dont work well with repositioning since their are often not very many good spots to reposition, and you often cant prone in grass without vision being obstructed, while a marksman can just stand or crouch and fire reliably. I honestly dont use the bipod with marksman a whole lot. I think the AR/MG are the worst kits in the game for the above reason, and yet marksman get the distinction a lot instead. I have rarely found a good use for AR/MG that a Marksman couldnt do better other than niche roles of locking down alleyways or streets, which gets canceled out when someone just throws a grenade and pushes the corner before they can reset their bipod, or gets knocked by an RPG/Grenade Launcher since it's usually faster than they can react, or just basically ANYONE that can poke and fire without being noticed, though thats still the job they are good for...until they get countered, which happens pretty quickly. The AR/MG tracers and the muzzle flashes give them away WAY too easily in anything that isn't a constrained environment, AR/MG's are USELESS for locking down fields, only closed top vehicles can use MG's to lockdown, to prevent from getting immediately killed.
To be fair prior to the ICO the marksman role was highly underrated already. The game is about ticket efficiency and objectives. If you drop a 30+ ticket gain and apply pressure to radios/obj/map information... You can influence the game a lot. The reason people don't like it is because they get the guy who drops 5 incaps and 2 kills in a 60 min game. Now its rough though, so much suppression.
I absolutely beg to differ: Sure, a rifle with an optic is going to be pretty flexible at engaging anything within 100m, but most of the Marksman guns combine the spotting magnification of the binoculars with the ability to straight up shoot anything you see without having to swap between spotting and trying to snipe tiny pixels. The only guns that don't fit this are the Mosin for the INS Sniper kit, and the SVD for Marksman IMF. Outside of that, I've seen some Marksman as SL rack up over 20+ kills over a match.
1:58 Of course it does. They are hidden/randomized for a reason. That reason being- Let's not turn the game into whackamole of who builds their fob first next to the middle flag. Using an external tool to predict them is cheating, far and simple
it's a fine class, just takes smart playing. the ability to lock an area down and support your boys is underrated. youre also a lot harder to spot and remove than the flashier machine gunner.
I haven't played squad in a long time, but back in the day it was that the squad leader didn't know how to use the marksman and just put them in bad positions. I've had great games as marksman just by being at flanks and spotting or in the most fun cases staying back and delaying the enemy. The marksman is pretty useless, if you don't utilize the range advantage, but you need competent sl for that.
There's been plenty of games where I went the whole time as a rifleman without ever having to use my ammo bag. So, the lack of grenades is the big downside of marksman to me. Still, it doesn't actually provide any actual utility that can't be done by other kits. It definitely needs a buff. Some sort of recon oriented utility item, and also give them the ability to mark targets without fireteam lead.
I was a sniper and Charlie FTL, and I was able to keep Bravo alive throughout the whole game by having all of Charlie support their pushes by setting up on peaks that provide a clear view of where they're pushing. We successfully provided fire superiority when they get pinned down and it was one of the most fulfilling games I've had of squad. Charlie took down 3 helicopters that game with no AT and we lost only 10 tickets collectively for an 1hr30m game. We still lost
When I'm squad leader I dont mind having a marksman in the squad as long as he's supporting the squad at whatever task we're doing (defending point, attacking a FOB etc etc) the overwatch one can provide is quite literally unmatched. I usually throw them a fireteam lead and ask them to scout as well.
Is it cheating when you played Squad so much, that you know the layouts by heart? Should such a squad leader have an advantage over others that could be considered cheating? It's hard enough to get into squad leading, as it is, and good squad leaders are rare enough, so I think Squadlanes should be integrated into the map for every squad leader, as should be detailed information about every vehicle of your faction and the enemy, like whether it has a stabilized gun or whether your MBT's commander seat has a camera turn speed so slow, that it's completely useless. If the map layout is supposed to be unpredictable then make it ACTUALLY random
"God I'm being so useful, I can't believe it." That's the best feeling a support player in any type of game can get, especially when their role isn't doing the objective
Having someone lay out the ground rules for the group that efficiently is perfect. And the kind of game I want to play. I hate playing these tactical games with people who won't communicate, or just go rogue mid game.
Something I've noticed is that it's not so much that the marksman kit is innately terrible, but that it draws in people with innately terrible tendencies. I think a decent balance for it would be swapping the first Automatic Rifleman slot over to the Fire support. Then you have a choice as a squad if you want double (or even triple, with the MG) dakka, or 1 AR, 1 GL, and 1 or 2 LAT's. I know a lot of people fear marksmans would run off even more, staying further away given the fact they now have their own ammo bag, but it's not as though their ammo demands are that great that they don't do it already, and this can simply be curbed by squad leaders already saying "Hey if I see you off in Narnia you're getting kicked."
I figure the SL's micromanagement would not be as bad if you had better fire team leaders. TLs should be micromanaging, SLs should focus on controlling TLs, developing the situation, and comms with higher.
11:30 it would be so cool that if you shoot their explosive equipment. it explodes, just like in the first Sniper Elite game... You shoot a Greanade belt of an enemy and it explodes doing damages to nearby people
If RAAS was truly random (Hawks RAAS Randomizer mod is awesome for that), Squadlanes wouldn't work, and you wouldn't know where the caps go at all. But since there is a finite amount of RAAS layers and a finite amount of lanes for those layers (which in 7.2, OWI gave you access within the game to see the possibilities of the layer), you can memorize the rotation within a week of playing. I see Squadlanes as an information tool to get problematic or uncooperative SLs to at least play the objective and not superfob, or just straight up remove a radio that's 800m off cap.
I think there should be, let's say 2 squads of designated to sniper squads of 4 or 5 guys for recon, and and softening objectives. It would consist of 2 guys with bolt actions and the scond bolt action only if there is 4 guys in the squad, 1 guy with dmr for 5th player as well as 2 with rifles, both acogs. I feel like that would rework the sniper class properly.
I love that in this video you trying to play a good marksman to see if it should even be a class, and there is squad opposite you literally with MARKSMAN=KICK! in the name lol.
what the fuck. that SL...generally speaking i cringe hard when SLs are like overly serious, but for what ever reason that guy's intro is impressive lmao i guess i never had any issues with people playing it seriously, but instead with people simply being bricks, which that guy isnt.
It’s not that the marksman is a bad kit, it’s that a) is only useful for certain styles of SLing and b) it attracts bad, newbie, selfish players who don’t understand how squad works or that they are have to try very hard to be useful to 49 other people. When I run squads, I basically NEVER want a marksman because I basically ALWAYS want an auto rifleman, grenadier and LAT, which takes the 3 support roles, because I’m always front lining off a rally and some MRAPs/techies. And if I’m not doing that, I’m logi running or superfobbing, so I’d rather everyone just take a rifleman to keep kits for the rest of the team
with a player who knows how to use the map to range, a good squad and a good map a marksman can very easily get 15 plus kills supporting the squad and/or objective. personally the kit makes combat out to over 500m which is far more difficult after the ICO
your voice reminds me of Ahoy and it makes it so much more fun when you bust out some witty comment. There were a lot of those btw, great video, you're gonna go far for sure if you keep this up :D
It's actually good role but depends from map to map. Grassy maps like Yevho, Gorodok, etc are not very good for marksman but if we talk about maps like Mutaha then marksman can be deadly.
The lane running is a bit of a double edged sword for me. I wanna set up a good defensive/offensive fob early on so i wanna know where the point will be. But i dont usually need squad lanes for that lol However, i really dont enjoy the "run the enemies first or second point and hold them" tactic (i play on new friendly servers. On an experience preferred, makes sense).
@@__soap__ a lot of SLs with that style have come to the conclusion that instead of being TKd by some raging teenager who wanted the sniper rifle to run off by themselves and for every other person thinking they can dick around and ignore orders, it's best to be up-front about how the squad is going to be lead; it allows time for some players to gracefully bow out and hop into another squad instead - it creates a much better experience for everyone imo ;p
A thing that would make it instantly useful is giving it a range finder. Useful for the marksman himself, useful for the unit, giving them a standout teamwork focused ability.
we run STORMS on our M110A1's so its not like putting a rangefinder on a dmr kit would be out of the ordinary
can just have a fireteam, mark enemy and check map
@@KristiansDravnieks can do that, but kinda annoying that you have to have a fireteam dedicated to your role
@@GreenSinic Yes
(5³)th luke
Honestly marksman is underrated after ICO, pre ICO yeah they kinda were just a crappier rifleman but afterwards marksman can be a great asset, they’re like a machine gunner that relies on accuracy over suppression to keep the enemy from getting your guys.
Yeah, honestly, even missed shots can seriously alter the outcome of a firefight. If you hit near an enemy, they are almost certain to move away from that vantage point. Once I even pushed a whole squad back. Sometimes you just find a great spot on a hill and have that perfect moment where you kill four people and the rest run.
I think it really shines on invasion, especially on the defense.
@ddontyy i mean its war, so it kind of is all about kills. They key is where the kills are happening and what they allow the team to do.
If you're on defence i dont think any kill is a wasted kill.
nah it was so much better before ico. Your ability to see is significantly diminished and hampers the role significantly compared to the old role when you had appropriate scope magnifications and the entire screen wasnt a blur.
@@CAjokeRCA 100%, good kills are good kills, pointless kills are pointless.
the squad leads talk at the start was just brilliant hahaha
I felt like I was on the plane before taking off. Fking fly attendant :D
that SL has been through this same charade over and over he wrote a script.
i played with this SL like a week ago word for word the same things he said to use 10/10 as a SL though
I don't play Squad, but I would love to hear that as a new player, though
Bro sounds someone that has no tolerance for any crap, but will genuinely help you out if you reach out to him
hes the dream squad leader lmao
I've actually been in a squad with that guy a couple times. He's overall a very good SL but yeah, if you start bullshitting in squad voice he'll just kick you.
What a loser he is. Probably has a shit life and this is the only thing he can control😂
That SL needs to play some arma lol
Fr, I have at least 1 marksman loadout on every arma server I've played. Usually an ar10 or m14 style rifle with an lpvo
Bro is craving that hardcore milsim experience
Real military units have at least one marksman.
people are laughing at the SL at the beginning but I would prefer that so much more than the silent SLs or the losers that lock their squads.
absolutely man. i love SLs like that and I wish there were more of them.
As a new player who is currently still learning what type of decision making is valuable, I heavily benefit from being ordered about like an RTS unit! Any squad leader that gives me plenty to do and jingles the keys to keep me from wandering off ensures that I have the best possible experience. o7
The drawback with the marksman kit is the opportunity cost. You sacrifice a fire support kit (LAT/AR/GL) for it so it has to be as effective as those kits to be worth the pick.
Also RAAS isn't truly random, and I've never been a huge fan of a skill curve that's based on memorization over adaptability, so I don't mind if the commander is preparing the team for the next fight.
My thoughts exactly. If the objectives were truly random and squad lanes gave a major advantage then I might have a problem with it but players just memorize anyway so who cares
Most of the time those kits are usually already taken so you really aren't sacrificing anything unless you're rocking 6 or less in a squad. The true drawback with marksmen is that they're terribly disadvantaged at close range and can't do much when surrounded. It's a really useful kit in the right hands, but most players don't position themselves properly when using it.
the RTS unit impression was absolutely on point 🤣
"im like an APC except i cant carry people"
Proceeds to carry the squad on his back 💪
This is how I've been saying marksmen need to play. Well done - marksman can be a desirable alternative to MGs that focus much more on precision and killing that volume of fire and suppression, but it takes a combination of a lot of different skills that most new players aren't equipped with.
If you want catchphrases for being a marksmen like that you gotta go back to Command and Conquer Generals/Zero Hour. Gotta use the pathfinder lines. when he calls for you answer “Scope cleaned and mounted” or “I’ll be your spotter” if he gives a move order respond “hope no one’s looking”, “ getting a better view” or “they won’t notice me” when told to engage respond with “leaving no trace”. There’s a ton of lines for you to use. All of them on point and slightly sarcastic in the context of this video lol
5:45 omg the bit about being just a guy you build in the barracks and needing the voice lines absolutely killed me
You really got a good 'Price' catchphrase impression
Thanks I try
lmao the squad leader
I played with another RB Squad Lead who read the same script lol, he was the best SL I've ever had though. He got a bunch of random dudes to bound onto a point through an open field in Skorpo and we took the point when none of the other squads could.
Wait wait I'm just curious, you decided not to buy a game because of one person in a random UA-cam video who plays the game in a way you don't like?
@nickgadsen4029 I think you are missing a point that Squad is a MILI-SIM. Of course, there are different ways to lead your team. But that's the beauty of a video game. If you don't like your squad leader or squad mates, then you are more than welcome to leave and join a new one.
@@nickgadsen4029 then be a squad leader yourself
@@nickgadsen4029 Honestly that SL was really good, Problem with it in most games is that an SL is trying to manage a bunch of people with likely zero military training to work as a team so some micro management is necessary. Most players will not do bounding movement by default etc. so telling each fireteam to when to move and to where can help with not over extending. As long as the SL is not being a cunt and not asking for the impossible/what he wouldn't do himself then its not bad.
In proper milsim teams you won't experience this as most milsim players/teams will have basic competency in tactical movement so they don't need to be as micro managed.
Squad lanes is like your S2 section kinda actually providing intelligence instead of just telling you the weather....
Squad intel network simulator when?
Exactly Daniel. Squad lane is acceptable.
Weather? I think you mean Mission Critical Intel, buddy 😎👌
not their fault that SWO isn't there
So, the marksman kit isn't used at the ranges it's designed to be, and realistically the maps might be a bit small, and the objectives change rapidly and are a bit too close for the marksman kits to be real useful. Realistically, marksman can most effectively do recon down valuable flanks and hold it cover friend pushes through that flanking lanes, but that could probably be equally well done by an MG gunner.
Exactly what I do. Get behind enemy lines, disrupt troop flow to the front. Hold chokepoints like bridges and crossings. I stopped an entire charge because the enemy had to keep prone all the time (didn’t work) which allowed our team to reinforce. Had like 19 takedowns (9 killed) by the end. A lot of times they get mad at me because “I am not close to them”, but completely disregard the fact that I’m providing covering fire and am an actually really helpful. Sometimes you can’t get a good position which really sucks though. Shrubbery is your best friend.
"Cabin crew, ready for takeoff" right after the SL Speech has me in tears🤣
Marksman are the squads support. They take out big threads and assists where the rest of the squad struggles. Most seem to confuse this role with a lone wolf sniper. I love being a marksman. Was it a long time in the Arma 3 realism unit I played.
Squad palyers: marksman is trash, all it has is a scope, there is no ammo, no nades, no nothing.
Also squad palyers: Scoped rifleman is the best class, who needs nades anyway, the scope is so useful, supression? i just kill the enemy, I only wish it had a bipod.
A scoped rifle allows to engage the enemy at longer distances while still providing effectiveness in close quarters. It's only a 4x scope on an assault rifle/carbine. Rifleman isn't the best class because all it does is carry an ammo pouch that needs to be replenished anyways, while most of the other classes use the same effective scoped weapon while doing their jobs.
Marksman is terrible because it provides no team value, the zoom is excessive for any combat alongside the squad, the weapon is made for long range shots which require good positioning in advance. Due to how fast teams push most of the time versus the time it would take to climb up a nearby hill, the benefit rather plays out. Most people with that kit want to go do their own thing instead of playing with the squad.
RB Tonka does this speech everytime he is sl 😂
1:16 gave me a good laugh slorgs hahahaa
So I like to run a squad of three for marksman. Especially on more urban maps. As a small squad it is a lot easier to sneak into a town or into a random building. From there you simply gain intel and as other squads come up your squad leader shares information on the enemy, and the marksman watches their weakpoints on approach. The third guy normally is just a medic/infantry man. He is there to help everyone stay up and to help everyone move from one building to the next incase of gunfight. As long as it is only one squad doing this and they actually communicate and stay towards POIs it can be super useful. The other thing is try not to kill people unless you have to, or it's a big target such as the commander. You are only there for intel, and supportive fire. If you do fire and kill someone or miss, move. You've had plenty of time and should have a second maybe even third position in mind in case of emergency.
The other way I like to use marksman is as a single person. You put him in a squad that is going to be more on the back line. This way the information he shares isn't overwhelming or too irrelevant then the squad leader distributes his information as needed. You hop onto a heli or a transport vehicle and just hop out at a different spot than everybody else. You then try to walk on the edge of combat zones taking shots when it has significant value. And sharing all the information you have.
One other thing to keep in mind is that when you are fighting you may not be great at causing in gam suppression, but you do cause people to have to take cover from another angle. So flank out far to another side from the rest of your squad. Try to hit people who are hiding from them, but aren't from you. They will inevitably corner themselves because they are getting shot from multiple directions, but because you are one guy you have the advantage of being able to continuously move without being caught or killed, especially if you take one or two shots then instantly move.
Just to be clear I play on midded servers most of the time so the squad requirements can be different. On other servers we try to do the same thing, we normally just have the fireteams function as smaller squads. Or we tell them to support another squad that needs help or may need help.
I love how people hate on squadlanes/squadmaps, instead of realizing these tools wouldn't be needed if OWI had designed decent layers from the beginning. There are, thankfully, increasingly more maps with layers that are basically a random selection between 4-6 possible points for every single step, and 30-50 possible points in total (Those are the ones that look like someone just barfed points all over the map when you open them in squadmaps). With these, there is basically no advantage to having squadmaps and, to me, these are the only "R"AAS layers that really deserve the name.
Unfortauntely, there are still MANY maps/layers that feature either (a) a very small number of possible points to being with, making it play just like AAS, (b) feature lots of points at the start/end but only 1-2 possible points for the middle point (so both teams just rush the middle, again, esentially making it AAS), or (c) feature lots of possible points, but have a "lane" logic that means that after the first 1-2 point, you know exactly where things are going (these do play a bit differently from AAS, but give insane advantage to using squadmaps, and especially the team that first figures out where the points are going).
There's a category of especially bad offenders (imho) in the last category, and those are maps with an assymetry. If you look at Black Coast RAAS, Team 2 up north has only a single possible first point, so learns no additional information until after capping that. Meanwhile, Team 1 have three possible positions for the first point, and if they see, e.g., Pond Junction or VLF Array as they spawn in, they know basically the entire point layout immediately, while Team 2 is still entirely in the dark. In fact, in 66% of rounds played on this layer, TEAM 1 KNOWS WHERE TEAM 2's SECOND POINT WILL BE BEFORE TEAM 2 KNOWS IT.
I think layers like Black Coast RAAS v2 are a huge part of the squadlanes/squadmap hate, but really it's just absolutely atrocious game design from OWI.
That SL has some real tour guide vibes going on at the beginning. lol
Wish I leaders like that back in my MilSim days. I often had those weird wannabe police/military guys that dropped out irl but acted like they´re the General.
Was a fun time though.
the markmen role in PR vs SQUAD is really different from each other but PR give their marksmen more stuff like Signal Tripmines for Defense
Signal trapmine would be so good for squad although could encourage even more solo marksmen far away from squad
Reponses to the squad leader orders should be in your best orc voice, "Okay"..."Yes my liege"
Marksman is secretly one of the most effective infantry when it comes to stopping a push in invasion. Invasions layers like Talli and Al Basrah which have open fields for the attackers to push are just asking for it. Anvil is great too with the high top sides and the objectives being being the middle of the canyon.
exactly, i was holding point all by myself with my sniper did like 30 kills before they took me out with bombardments
Marksman and AR (and sometimes GL) are generally supposed to be used to target enemy MGs.
MGs and a fireteam of riflemen are the two weapons of a Squad (and therefor of the SL).
MGs>riflemen/GL>markmen/AR>MGs
Other specialties are for certain missions and types of support, but when not doing those, they act as riflemen.
being micromanaged by a squadlead ruins the game so easily. an SLs job is to relay missions from command and provide logistic resources, the squad's job is to analyze their individual scenario to plan how to accomplish the provided mission.
the most direct guidance that i always want to provide is that a huge majority of the time, concealment is much better than cover.
and also stop building habs on different floors than ground level. the radio can go on the top floor or basement or whatever, the hab needs to be able to escaped from instantly... but that one is just yelling at other squad leads - not giving infantry directions.
btw youre totally correct about squadlanes, same with the mortar calculators
I haven't played Squad in years but UA-cam recommended me this vid and I'm glad it did. Super entertaining video man.
SL made me feel like I was attending a mandatory safety briefing
As a squad leader, ide prefer if nobody had access to squad maps. HOWEVER, i will not put my self at a disadvantage if i know others are probably using it.
You know despite being a hardass i can completely understand why the SL does the whole scipt at the start (not sure if he did a mic check prior). The number of times i had SLs not give a damn and we get completely steamroled due to lack of coordination is frustrating especially when you wanna win. By doing this, people who arent intrested just leave the squad and leaves people who actually wanna play for the team and giving the warning that if you f around youll get kicked is something i encourage other SLs to practice since a random medic not doing their job can lose you a game. BTW the way you play marksman is exactly as i expect a marksman to play as. I usually give them FTL and to go ahead of the team to watch for any potential enemies in the area and to mark shit since i dont expect them to get many kills but to provide overwatch and callouts for the team.
No DJ slorgs ;-;
How else am I supposed to know to keep it funky, fresh AND real?
I know right... not even the goofy grooves ... I'm disappointed. @TheSunderingSea
The squad leads accent makes it so much better
I wanna say Squadlanes ruins the game, but without it the game is about memorizing, and that's not fun either. It should just be implemented into the game. Everyone sees the possible points but no one knows which one it is. Problem solved for everyone
This is already a feature if you click the little information symbol when voting it will show all the possible points that counts for all game modes altho I dont know about insurgency
@@dna_upper1622 yeah but i want exactly that feature to be implemented in the round itself, if you miss to look during voting time you fu..ed up basically
@Grimbolt But at that point in the game it's all about camping the next obj and and stomping your enemies into the dirt personally I like the system the way it is currently forcing the team to be quick and adaptive while fighting
Even before the lanes were showed, I would argue squadlanes was beneficial as it would close the gap between veterans who memorized the points anyways and newer players
On certain maps marksmen can be OP if played right, in Narva I played a round as a marksman on the tall building besides train depot. 29 kills, marking enemies and locking down the point. Very useful IMO in a situation like that
I think a lot of people don't understand the main problem. The problem is that it provides no extra value that some other kit can provide. The magnification isn't that much better than a regular scope and you are going to have a difficult time killing unless you're bipoded. People say that the scope helps with recon, but if you want to do recon take a kit with binos... they're literally better at gathering information...
Another huge reason that people don't consider is that the marksman is a fire support role, which you only get to have 3 of in your squad. A marksman means you can't bring double AT and a grenadier or AT, grenadier and a MG - compromising to allow for the marksman slot. I would say sniper kits are more viable but in general marksman kit doesn't add anything to your squad and due to the weapons you're forced to play far back, unable to quickly rotate if needed.
that SLs speech was impeccable lolllll
2:12 i love the start of this match i wish i got squads like that
I haven’t played this game or seen gameplay since before my back surgery July last year. My computer took a shit and I haven’t been able to play it can’t work to even replace it lmao life’s wild. Glad this popped up in my feed. Miss this game a lot.
that squad leader is goated! I wish all SLs communicated like that
if i get marksman i usually sneak behind enemy lines and give intel to my sl , looking for fobs and the mortars can deal with the rest
I played with that same SL not long ago, easily was the greatest squad round ive ever played.
what's the server called?
@@iwolima4081 Royal battalion
@@Marginalis.mp3 Thanks man, been trying to find some servers to play in
0:31 is crazy 💀
3:00 :D i felt like im on airplane when the crew members are trying to explain safety measures :D
6:07 i just had the human captain from warcraft 3 lines playing in my head whenever you got directed somewhere... For Lordaeron!
I started playing marksman around 2 hrs into the game, and have kept doing it. Now, at around 50 hrs i have played sniper on a snow map (one w/giant airport in the middle) and hit a 700+ meter shot from the top of a m-2 browning on a moving enemy SL.
Love the marksman/sniper kit.
Marksman usually is my FTL leader for my gun group which covers my assault group. They have good spotting abilities and can snipe other snipers for my MG.
But if they stray without a good explanation they get the boot, go play cawahdoody, hehe.
That’s squad lead is what I strive to be haha
"The best defense is a round in the skull of the most dangerous enemy from 400 meters away."
-Mr Marksman
“Copy that, command” was perfect
Lot of people don't understand that the Marksman kit is best used to area deny(any treeline or open area) or use deny (Mortar Fob). Continuously rotate after every kill and since you have the Alpha damage and surprise factor you should win every engagement, and when they send a whole squad after you, you just hide in a bush and wait for them to leave before harassing the mortars again...if a whole squad is wasting their time on one player you are removing them from the fight, and if it's a mortar fob you are also preventing them from using the mortars, essentially removing them completely from the game which is often 5+ players.
When I play marksman, especially on parachute mods like Global Escalation, I have a heli drop me near enemy mortar fobs and completely deny them...I've also wiped out Mortar Carrier's and mortar carrier fobs because I find the radio and then kill the mortar carrier player, then hop on their TOW missile they had emplaced and kill the mortar carrier and their logi they had parked...
It's also useful when offset from the squad to spot threats before they reach and to pick off people during the intense firefight that may commence between the two parties.... One marksman bullet can easily kill and is a lot less noticeable than 3 shots from a rifleman.
Autorifleman/Machine Gunners can NOT perform the same duty because bipods are often a nuisance to set up, so they dont work well with repositioning since their are often not very many good spots to reposition, and you often cant prone in grass without vision being obstructed, while a marksman can just stand or crouch and fire reliably. I honestly dont use the bipod with marksman a whole lot.
I think the AR/MG are the worst kits in the game for the above reason, and yet marksman get the distinction a lot instead. I have rarely found a good use for AR/MG that a Marksman couldnt do better other than niche roles of locking down alleyways or streets, which gets canceled out when someone just throws a grenade and pushes the corner before they can reset their bipod, or gets knocked by an RPG/Grenade Launcher since it's usually faster than they can react, or just basically ANYONE that can poke and fire without being noticed, though thats still the job they are good for...until they get countered, which happens pretty quickly.
The AR/MG tracers and the muzzle flashes give them away WAY too easily in anything that isn't a constrained environment, AR/MG's are USELESS for locking down fields, only closed top vehicles can use MG's to lockdown, to prevent from getting immediately killed.
To be fair prior to the ICO the marksman role was highly underrated already. The game is about ticket efficiency and objectives. If you drop a 30+ ticket gain and apply pressure to radios/obj/map information... You can influence the game a lot. The reason people don't like it is because they get the guy who drops 5 incaps and 2 kills in a 60 min game. Now its rough though, so much suppression.
6:13 You out here trying to sound like an NPC makes it funnier🤣🤣🤣🤣
I absolutely beg to differ: Sure, a rifle with an optic is going to be pretty flexible at engaging anything within 100m, but most of the Marksman guns combine the spotting magnification of the binoculars with the ability to straight up shoot anything you see without having to swap between spotting and trying to snipe tiny pixels.
The only guns that don't fit this are the Mosin for the INS Sniper kit, and the SVD for Marksman IMF. Outside of that, I've seen some Marksman as SL rack up over 20+ kills over a match.
"Behold my Kingdom" Sire, there appears to be enemy combatants at your castle gates.
1:58 Of course it does. They are hidden/randomized for a reason. That reason being- Let's not turn the game into whackamole of who builds their fob first next to the middle flag. Using an external tool to predict them is cheating, far and simple
The super serious SL was 100% hungarian or finnish.
it's a fine class, just takes smart playing. the ability to lock an area down and support your boys is underrated. youre also a lot harder to spot and remove than the flashier machine gunner.
I haven't played squad in a long time, but back in the day it was that the squad leader didn't know how to use the marksman and just put them in bad positions. I've had great games as marksman just by being at flanks and spotting or in the most fun cases staying back and delaying the enemy. The marksman is pretty useless, if you don't utilize the range advantage, but you need competent sl for that.
There's been plenty of games where I went the whole time as a rifleman without ever having to use my ammo bag.
So, the lack of grenades is the big downside of marksman to me.
Still, it doesn't actually provide any actual utility that can't be done by other kits.
It definitely needs a buff. Some sort of recon oriented utility item, and also give them the ability to mark targets without fireteam lead.
Imo give everyone a sniper kit the fact the Canadians can run around with a 338 while other factions like Russia have to use a svdm is just bs
Tonka researched Yeoman in Castle Age and out came Slorgs
I was a sniper and Charlie FTL, and I was able to keep Bravo alive throughout the whole game by having all of Charlie support their pushes by setting up on peaks that provide a clear view of where they're pushing. We successfully provided fire superiority when they get pinned down and it was one of the most fulfilling games I've had of squad.
Charlie took down 3 helicopters that game with no AT and we lost only 10 tickets collectively for an 1hr30m game.
We still lost
Most marksmen are useless, because so many think they need to play it COD style
if the engagement is
When I'm squad leader I dont mind having a marksman in the squad as long as he's supporting the squad at whatever task we're doing (defending point, attacking a FOB etc etc) the overwatch one can provide is quite literally unmatched. I usually throw them a fireteam lead and ask them to scout as well.
Watched it for the sniping, stayed for your glamorous humour. You surely deserved a subscribe from me dear sir.
Is it cheating when you played Squad so much, that you know the layouts by heart? Should such a squad leader have an advantage over others that could be considered cheating?
It's hard enough to get into squad leading, as it is, and good squad leaders are rare enough, so I think Squadlanes should be integrated into the map for every squad leader, as should be detailed information about every vehicle of your faction and the enemy, like whether it has a stabilized gun or whether your MBT's commander seat has a camera turn speed so slow, that it's completely useless. If the map layout is supposed to be unpredictable then make it ACTUALLY random
"God I'm being so useful, I can't believe it."
That's the best feeling a support player in any type of game can get, especially when their role isn't doing the objective
a large part of the difficulty is that the gun does very little damage so even when you get a nice hit, your target often just runs away behind cover
Having someone lay out the ground rules for the group that efficiently is perfect. And the kind of game I want to play. I hate playing these tactical games with people who won't communicate, or just go rogue mid game.
admit it
you like being managed by a competent squad lead
rts mode lets go😂😂
Something I've noticed is that it's not so much that the marksman kit is innately terrible, but that it draws in people with innately terrible tendencies. I think a decent balance for it would be swapping the first Automatic Rifleman slot over to the Fire support. Then you have a choice as a squad if you want double (or even triple, with the MG) dakka, or 1 AR, 1 GL, and 1 or 2 LAT's.
I know a lot of people fear marksmans would run off even more, staying further away given the fact they now have their own ammo bag, but it's not as though their ammo demands are that great that they don't do it already, and this can simply be curbed by squad leaders already saying "Hey if I see you off in Narnia you're getting kicked."
I figure the SL's micromanagement would not be as bad if you had better fire team leaders. TLs should be micromanaging, SLs should focus on controlling TLs, developing the situation, and comms with higher.
aah a chad SL
Good to see one after the ico purge
11:30 it would be so cool that if you shoot their explosive equipment. it explodes, just like in the first Sniper Elite game... You shoot a Greanade belt of an enemy and it explodes doing damages to nearby people
If RAAS was truly random (Hawks RAAS Randomizer mod is awesome for that), Squadlanes wouldn't work, and you wouldn't know where the caps go at all. But since there is a finite amount of RAAS layers and a finite amount of lanes for those layers (which in 7.2, OWI gave you access within the game to see the possibilities of the layer), you can memorize the rotation within a week of playing. I see Squadlanes as an information tool to get problematic or uncooperative SLs to at least play the objective and not superfob, or just straight up remove a radio that's 800m off cap.
6:35 you need some Jason Statham quotes!
I think there should be, let's say 2 squads of designated to sniper squads of 4 or 5 guys for recon, and and softening objectives. It would consist of 2 guys with bolt actions and the scond bolt action only if there is 4 guys in the squad, 1 guy with dmr for 5th player as well as 2 with rifles, both acogs. I feel like that would rework the sniper class properly.
Really depends on faction, insurgents and irregulars really benefit from that squad level SVD when facing optic equipped infantry
I love that in this video you trying to play a good marksman to see if it should even be a class, and there is squad opposite you literally with MARKSMAN=KICK! in the name lol.
I had that SL, i like his attitude. We won pretty quickly with this kind of organization.
Marksman is great for FTL imo, it's great for marking out enemy positions and passing that info on to the rest of the squad
Jeezy Pete... squad lead takes himself seriously....
The brief: 😴😴😴
😂😂😂 this video has no business being this good! instantly subbed
what the fuck. that SL...generally speaking i cringe hard when SLs are like overly serious, but for what ever reason that guy's intro is impressive lmao
i guess i never had any issues with people playing it seriously, but instead with people simply being bricks, which that guy isnt.
It’s not that the marksman is a bad kit, it’s that a) is only useful for certain styles of SLing and b) it attracts bad, newbie, selfish players who don’t understand how squad works or that they are have to try very hard to be useful to 49 other people.
When I run squads, I basically NEVER want a marksman because I basically ALWAYS want an auto rifleman, grenadier and LAT, which takes the 3 support roles, because I’m always front lining off a rally and some MRAPs/techies. And if I’m not doing that, I’m logi running or superfobbing, so I’d rather everyone just take a rifleman to keep kits for the rest of the team
with a player who knows how to use the map to range, a good squad and a good map a marksman can very easily get 15 plus kills supporting the squad and/or objective. personally the kit makes combat out to over 500m which is far more difficult after the ICO
your voice reminds me of Ahoy and it makes it so much more fun when you bust out some witty comment. There were a lot of those btw, great video, you're gonna go far for sure if you keep this up :D
That's very kind thank you guy
oh man the NPS answers got me lol
Things that would be a very good additions to Marksman is Rangefinder and Variable zoom scopes
They need to make the reticles on binos accurate for using the WERM method for ranging
Does Squad allow you to play as a Pilot? In the trailer I saw helicopter combat and I assume there is close air support.
It's actually good role but depends from map to map. Grassy maps like Yevho, Gorodok, etc are not very good for marksman but if we talk about maps like Mutaha then marksman can be deadly.
I stay kicking marksmen out of my squad, if you want to go off on your own make your own squad
The lane running is a bit of a double edged sword for me. I wanna set up a good defensive/offensive fob early on so i wanna know where the point will be. But i dont usually need squad lanes for that lol
However, i really dont enjoy the "run the enemies first or second point and hold them" tactic (i play on new friendly servers. On an experience preferred, makes sense).
Are there actually non respawn able HVT in this game ?
iirc only medic that kinda high value to be used. so no sniper-ing
just regular marksman no?
I have had a few good games as marksman, but usually it's kind of bad. But when it's working its a lot of fun.
That SL was amazing, wish more were like him. I agree, RAAS should be random. It shouldnt be about checking a website. Also, some siiick shots!! Nice
Disagree... That SL is was insufferable! I like organised SLs but not like that
@@__soap__ a lot of SLs with that style have come to the conclusion that instead of being TKd by some raging teenager who wanted the sniper rifle to run off by themselves and for every other person thinking they can dick around and ignore orders, it's best to be up-front about how the squad is going to be lead; it allows time for some players to gracefully bow out and hop into another squad instead - it creates a much better experience for everyone imo ;p