Can men and women be friends? The surprising (and angering) answer from The Attachment Specialist
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
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I agree with what you said about people keeping exes in their life. I couldn’t put it in to words but this is spot on. I definitely see this behavior in my ex who wanted to keep everyone in his life and couldn’t let go but also couldn’t have hard conversations. Very much fearful avoidant. Very kind man. I’ll always care about him although he broke my heart.
My ex used to go on archery "dates" with a female family friend. Her husband was okay with it, I wasn't: we were no longer having our own date nights. He couldn't understand that I resented the fact that he had put in the effort to meet with her and not with his own spouse.
This was a great topic!!
If you were NOT having date nights at all, that is horrible!! I can see why you'd be uncomfortable!
Have you tried learning archery and go and do that together or were you just selfish and was a burden to him?
I agree with you, ive never had a male friend..they either want to be with you sleep with you at some point..that crosses the friend dynamic. That attraction from either side is always on the table which makes it rare to have a longterm male friend
It can be so difficult to maintain this, it's true.
Yes. After "friends" that were guys tried to be more than friends. I have never wanted to be friends with a guy again.
Then become friends with gay men problem solved
Wow, thanks. I did not realize I was in that small percentage. I am grateful for my friend group, the people I associated with have boundaries and respect and I guess secure enough attachments. I am aware men and women are different so I’ve been very selective and careful about male friendships; I only have one. A former coworker, whose opinion I value, but there are boundaries to ensure the emotional connection stays in healthy and appropriate space, and never replace what we get from our same sex friends or partners or disrespect our partners. My friends and I all become a community for each other.
@9:50 what u said about someone making a pseudo family - MINDBLOWN. The guy I was in a situationship with had heaps of female friends. And recently he brought up just staying friends with me (despite us being quite intimate before). I realised from the fact that he grew up an only child with a father who betrayed his mom by secretly having another family in another country, and him being bisexual as well- with all this context rlly opened my eyes to this discussion.
This is eye opening & something I need to think about. I have had many male platonic friends over the years, one of which is still a friend after 20+ years. *(The platonic is from my side as, when I reflect, most drifted away once I had a boyfriend or got engaged & later married.) We are now both single - I have recently gotten divorced - & I do not want to give wrong messages. (I genuinely don’t see him as more than a friend but I don’t think he can say the same, listening to what you are saying.)
Whether it's possible is secondary to whether it's worth the risk, and I'd wager a hefty "No".
I agree that there's a risk to it. Is there never a time where it's worth the risk in your opinion?
@@AttachmentAdam Honestly, not really. There's little if anything that a person can get from a platonic friend of the opposite sex that isn't better and safer acquired elsewhere. For the few and far between that make it work, I don't think there's anything immoral with it, inherently, but I wouldn't suggest it as a go-to solution for anyone.
@@AttachmentAdamYes. That would be when you love your spouse.
I love how you describe the loss of extended family as being so important (here and in other podcasts) and how that is where historically we would normally get our inter-gender socialisation. It reminds me to try make more of an effort for bringing our extended family together for the benefit of my kids. In terms of male/female friendships, its great when your husband has a bunch of fun male friends, you get the male friendships which take place in social settings with healthy boundaries.
The loss of those extended family networks, that is HUGE and very few people today even realize it.
Always nice to read an intelligently expressed comment that takes in a wider perspective (imho).
1) women hold the keys to sex and men hold the keys to relationship. If the man is already giving her the relationship, aka friendship, she holds all the cards and has everything she wants. So it is natural that the men secretly want more while the woman is satisfied with the situation
2) ironic how every opposite sex friendship I have ever know all but ends when one or both parties finds another mate
3) A man can get all his friendship needs met by other men and family ( seeing that they have the most in common) therefore if he is in a monogamous relationship where his intimate/sexual needs are being met why would he put in the time and effort or need to have an extra curricular friendship the is not giving him anything he’s not getting elsewhere?
Interesting points, thank you for sharing!
If the woman makes decisions that are any good for her, then she would want a relationship with the man she has good frienship with, exactly because of your point 2 that the friendship ends if the man finds another mate. Only if the friendship is not good enough to be made lasting through a relationship, then it makes sense for the woman to keep it as just a friendship.
So there is a way to make a relationship out of a man-woman friendship if the man is a valuable enough friend for the woman.
You discount gay people. Also if she is a childhood friend I'm not simply going to stop hanging with her just because my spouse finds it weird. If she has a problem with it maybe she's not the right one
@@neilstone1788 you are right, I discount gay people because I am not one and don’t think it is natural. So I don’t speak for them. Truth is truth regardless of how you want to cope. Disrespect your partners if you like, has no bearing on me
I have always felt this way about friends with the opposite sex. When I was younger I thought guys were my friend but then most if not all my guy friends tried to get with me one way or another. After that I have never been ok with opposite sex friendships.
I get some of my extended male family needs fulfilled with gay men. Obviously, its not the same as a straight man but its a close second. I LOVE this video. Ive had male friends my whole adult life and everything Adam said is true. They always have feelings & now im realizing since i have a deeper understanding i dont want to string anyone along. I was probobly subconsciously getting something from this knowing on some level they wanted more. This is eye opening!
Thank you for describing this topic with the care it deserved. I can see why it's such a volatile subject and I agree with all of your points, although begrudingly so. As someone who lacks extended family, I worked on myself tirelessly in order to obtain the communication skills necessary to befriend and maintain respectful, fulfilling relationships.
I began your video assuming that the answer was it's very possible and doable, but when you laid out all of the steps required to create and maintain such a relationship, I realized for the first time just how far I've come. Thank you for the work you do and I firmly believe that I, as well as many of my closest friends, can and will go the distance and show the world that our biology can't limit our friendships.
To anyone else reading this, members of the opposite sex can be close friends: it just takes a brutal amount of honest communication and the setting of boundaries that can protect the interests of everyone involved. With security in oneself, many things are possible: we need only reach out and seize our potential.
well... I have had a male friend for 1 1/2 yrs and never was attracted to him. Recently I was surprised I discovered I had feelings for him. I told him and he said he didnt think he could love anyone but his deceased wife, who from all accounts was not a nice person. He is avoidant (of course) and I am anxious. He acts like a boyfriend to me doing so much for me, it was really confusing. Your videos are really helping me to understand what is going on. We are next door neighbors so we see each other every day. Neither one of us are moving so I need to do a lot of personal growth.
My child’s dad agreed that most men can not have female friends without wanting more. He said if a man is tired of drama and doing the same thing over and over again, and really wants a family, then he will let go of female friendship’s because if the opportunity presents itself, many and most men will sleep with female friends even if it doesn’t mean anything substantial to him, it will affect his future relationship with a potential wife. Although most men have feelings for their friends, I do believe men can also have casual sex easier than women. When I sleep with someone I bond for life and so I can’t be exclusive unless I know they’re in for long term/trying for life.
As a woman, I’ve very very monogamous to the point that when I have a partner, I do not find myself feeling lust for other men even if they’re the hottest thing ever. I see them as attractive person but don’t see anything sexual. I’ve always been this way and thought it’s how most people are but even my closest female friends shockingly don’t feel the same. I had a long term friendship with a boy/teen when I was in middle school and highschool, we both were in long term committed relationships as seniors but he expressed how much attraction he found me. He was faithful to his gf but it just made me realize how common it is for people to fantasize about others and how easily an emotional affair can happen etc. i now only have men who are much older than me and married amongst my fb friends- example, my neighbor and his wife who became good acquaintances. I’ve become insecure over the years learning about how common cheating is, even with friends of mine I’d never suspect would do it. I’m fairly secure but experiences over the last 20 years have made me question everything and I’ve become quite conservative and struggle finding a man with similar beliefs as me. I used to drop my bf off at the women’s houses that he was cheating on me with because I was naive and I have integrity. It’s really impossible to know who cheats and who doesn’t, some of the best people I’ve known (incredible fathers, outstanding employees, etc) have cheated. So I’m not really sure what to look for anymore. I kind of wonder if it’s just luck. The people I’ve gone slow with, and grew to trust, ended up betraying me. The people I jumped right in with did the same. Therapy hasn’t helped me learn and eventually I’ll do some courses hoping to figure out what my part of the problem is.
I also used to think women had more control than men, but it’s isn’t as much of a difference than I thought. I’d guess slightly more women can have friendships with men and nothing more would happen during difficult times, but it’s not much of a difference. People are people; Imperfect salespeople with high hopes of delivering.
WOW finally!!! 😮 exactly how I believe and people are quick to disagree sometimes. 🙏
I’ve heard many times “we’re just friends” and each time I’ve been burnt.
I hear you. It can be frustrating or even heartbreaking when your expectations don't align. Would you be comfortable discussing where you stand early on to avoid this from happening again?
I had a great friend who was a lady….had. It was definitely me who messed it up, keep your boundaries strong brothers
Sadly common. You can hold boundaries during normal times but when people get weak and need comfort...
Thank you Adam.. this video came at a time when I was desperately seeking counsel on this subject
As a woman in my early 20s with no siblings and a disjointed family, I had done exactly what you’d mentioned and tried to build my own family unit. Being a lover of science and heavily philosophical it was rarer for me to find girls growing up who I could truly have my need for rational debate fulfilled with so I had many close male friendships built on counsel, respect, honesty, accountability etc.
I now have a relatively secure wide network of friends of different sexes and backgrounds, but as I prepare myself for a healthy relationship I have been pondering my male network and figuring out where to draw the line if I think there’s a potential a male friend is attracted to me.. even considering dressing more modestly to reduce the chance of sending sexual signals although this is a tricky debate too.. (I wonder if you have any thoughts?!)
This video has really helped me solidify some things in my mind and served as a starting point for building a value system on this subject
Thank you for your work 🙏🏽
Hey there, glad to hear you are taking your relationships so seriously. A lot of people do go through that family building phase with friends but then need to narrow down their focus for romantic life later on. The best approach is to be honest with those around you about your concerns and desires, and also to ask them about theirs. Healthier men will likely understand what you're trying to do and will offer healthy boundaries of their own - like becoming friend with your future partner, mostly meeting together with them rather than insisting on solo times with you, and the like. Have those conversations and see who is willing to work with you.
I absolutely agree with this... Actually had this conversation with my current partner, very early on in the relationship.
I know that with self control, nothing ever has to happen... But why put yourself & the peace of mind of the person you supposedly love, in that position? I hold strongly to my belief that, in the case of two heterosexual people of the opposite sex, who are of close enough ages to be in a romantic partnership... SOMEBODY has a reason for being in that relationship, & those reasons are not platonic. One or the other person- if not both- wants something more.
He disagreed... Until a few days later. He saw my point when one of his female "friends" confessed her feelings.
I have male acquaintances, but no male friends that I go do stuff with, or talk, or message everyday... because if I'm not the one who "wants more", then he definitely does. And that's not fair to either of us.
So my question is always, which one of you is it that has the feelings?
Interestingly enough, I am a woman who have had a few male friends during the years, it turned out all of them was interested in something more than friendship. Now I am friends with a man and it is the other way around, I am interested in something more (I have feelings beyond friendship, although I am not really physically attracted, more spiritually/mentally, like a soulmate?). Not a good situation to be in, I have sympathy for the men I turned down over the years. Karma I suppose!
I'm about a minute in and pretty much agree. I had male friends that came and go. Most actually never had any interest, me neither, but they were also not very close friends. We could always talk about personal stuff, we could just have fun, we respected each other, we would be ready to help each other, but we didn't really care about each other like you do for your closest friends. (Most of them were also from one friend group). Naturally, after about 10 years of friendship we drifted apart. (I still respect each of them, though).
Now I actually do have a very close male friend, we do care about each other (only as friends), but there is definitely a whole set of conditions that had to (and happened to) be met to make it work. We have a great vibe, neither wants to be with each other and know we are not relationship compatible, but are very much friendship comptible and respect each other. We're able to resolve conflict even if one fails at first (this actually drew us closer together - vasopressin?), and we also give each other the right amount of space when needed. We also support each other's love life. He now has a pretty amazing girlfriend (for years), he's really happy, and I low key can't wait for them to get married (it's bound to happen, they both want it, just have other things in life they want to do first. And yeah, I get genuinely happy when my friends are happy). Sure, there are some basic feelings involved, but feelings are just chemistry. That's where assessing and both of us being upfront about not being interested in dating each other and not being what each of us is looking for. Also his girlfriend is everything he's looking for (some from the start, some they both worked for).
All in all, I believe men and women can easily be (semi-)superficial friends, but it is very rare for men and women to be truly close friends who care about each other, meaning friends for life. But at the same time, the latter are rare in general. In same-sex friendsips too.
I hear what you are saying. My question is, what are bisexual people supposed to do with regard to friendship? I am a bisexual woman. I have always had an easier time being friends with men, maybe because of this. In my experience, men are more accepting and tolerant of my sexuality and I feel more comfortable around them, not because of a complete lack of sexual tension but because at least the sexual tension can be addressed/acknowledged forthrightly and honestly. With women it often becomes complicated. I have had female friends assume I was coming on to them just because I came out to them (when truthfully I was just trying to be honest about myself, talk about my feelings and why I feel so strongly about gay rights etc). I wonder if bisexual men have a similar experience (finding opposite sex friendships easier because they feel more accepted for their sexuality by the opposite sex).
I thought the idea of a man being "friends" with a woman is kind of strange in that you know, as a man, that if you are with a woman who isn't a female relative then people assume there is some kind of romantic interest between you and the woman. This means if you were truly a woman's "friend" you'd recognise that people perceiving a romantic element in your platonic relationship puts you both in an awkward position in terms of finding partners etc. After all, given the desire for committed relationships, I imagine it could lead to sexual jealousy in a partner even if the friendship in question was purely platonic. In short, given the different problems, I'd say men and woman could only be friends in a workplace in terms of helping each other complete projects and engaging in the normal team working that exists in any organisation. Beyond that, it would mean putting each other in an awkward position with our lovers and the wider society around us. This is why, once a woman says she no longer wants to date me, I immediately wish her well and do not engage with her again. This helps her move on and heal her heart, and it means she can go on to date another guy who's better suited to her and he can feel reassured that I'm not in the picture trying to steal her away from him. After all, if I care about her, then I'd want the best for her. Having me in the picture when she's moved on to a new guy, just seems odd. How would that help her new relationship and lead to her happiness?
This is definitely a tricky subject. And as you said, how will future relationships handle the challenge? It's complicated and for some that makes it not worth the effort.
My solution for this is simple. Most of my female friends are either lesbians, or asexual.
Hello ive been a builder all my life , most of my customers are women both married and single , majority of married women have complaints about the useless husband !! I can say hand on heart ive never had a sexual relationship with any of them or would like too ,many of these women i visit for a chat as a freind , i have many builder freinds who believe otherwise !!
Thanks for your talk
God bless
Good data, thanks for sharing! And I'm glad you're principled enough to be able to do this!
I believe this is primarily a maturity aspect of both parties. Can be friends if the topic of possible sexual relationship is addressed and honoured. ‘Honoured’ means the answer is taken as is, and ‘feelings’ dealt with, reconciled and integrated. Cannot be friends if the topic is not dealt with, feelings remain non-integrated, sexual longing remains after a ‘no’, or boundaries on this matter are not honoured.
Maturity is a good way to measure it.
That's why most of my female friends are either lesbians, asexual, or friends I've known since we were kids and I think of them as sisters.
Almost all of my friends are men, certainly my oldest & best friends are men. One of them we have known each other since we were babies. He was my next door neighbor. We talk on the phone 4 or 5 days per week.
I agree it’s totally possible. I have them too.
Wow just found another woman like me. I have 4 very close male friends. We shift gears so easily and readily when it comes to talking about matters. Never met each other. I have female friends but not friends I can confide in. Very few women like my open, honest, intelligent conversations. I have had 4 kids and am widowed and I don't do small chit-chat about nappies, feeding bottles, or kids growing up. Give me a strong healthy debate and I am in boots and all. Maybe we are an exception to the rule.
Sharp and clear as always - i noticed my own lack of honesty about that topic (nice guy tendencies) - will adress that with the friend in question as a way of regaining integrity.
Is it by the way possible to have some open link (research paper mentionned about the frienship conumdum.beetwen men and women ?) Thanks Adam ❤!
Good plan, improve your integrity! As for links - check out some of the studies published in journals online, there is a lot of cool data on this.
This is rough to hear but thank you
I know it's hard, but taking a look at challenging topics is great for growth. Thanks for taking the time to listen.
Based on my experience 5-10% of men can be friends with no strings attached. And that’s generous.
basically when dudes like a chick they're direct, indirect or avoidant. (they'll hit on her, friendzone themselves or will be too shy to interact). most dudes aren't going to throw their backs out moving furniture for someone unless they like them which is what i think the famous question is trying to point out.
being social acquaintances at school/work/church is very natural, though. in fact, one of the best ways to meet hot babes is to be friendly with moms and grandmas who can introduce you to their daughters and granddaughters. just act like a cult leader who is social with everyone but with better clothes and less malignant narcissism.
I tend to agree with Mike Pence.
All my close women friends are in the context of a group and there is not a single one who I go out for lunch with alone.
Men, I have breakfast, gym, off-roading and fishing buddies
It's interesting that you have separate social circles for men and women. Can you tell me more about why you prefer those dynamics?
@@AttachmentAdam I didn't always think this way. In my teens and twenties, I had many friends both boys and girls, in mostly the same social circles. I treated the girls platonicly and the same as boys but that often got complicated because many of the girls felt more involved as the friendships grew. I am a somewhat cerebral kind of guy who makes friends easily but doesn't develop crushes on cute girls. Anyway, I took the Mike Pence way after I got married. What do you think?
I thought you were nuts until you said the pseudo family thing. There is a VERY different ethos to my relationships with my chosen family dude buddies than the friend zone dynamic you were talking about. Our kids play together like the cousins they dont have because no one has big families anymore. Their wives become like my sisters in law. My husband became like their brother in law. We all have solid marriages and still enjoy each other's company. Maybe because we all play dungeons and dragons we all stress bonded or whatever.😂
Right! There are complications here and it's good to discuss them like this. Sounds like you've made roles very clear and are also building a whole network together, not just single men orbiting around you. Very different!
how about you adam? have u had any situation wherein your relationship (past or current wife) have a guy friend? how do you deal with it, or do you set boundaries
My wife and I absolutely set boundaries to protect the trust and comfort of each partner in our relationship. Especially since public figures (like content creators) get targeted for all kinds of weird situations, so I've had to be even more careful. We've got a firm agreement in place for handling this challenge as a couple.
Well, after being a long time single, I gathered some male friends. Yes, there was physical attraction in the beginning and yes, some thing or more happend. But at some point a relationship was not making sense. But as we liked each other and already bonded, we became friends. But we don't hang out, just talk on the phone. Here and there we talk about attraction to each other, but than that's it.
For me thats "real" contact and we support each other emotionally.
However did you feel that you want to continue in this pattern? or is there something else you're really looking for?
Married men having friends with women is possible, however the marriage needs to be solid and openness about that women friend with their wife.
Boundries need to be discussed and agreed upon.
I developed feelings for a female work colleague/friend without any intention of doing so I was devastated because I put so much effort in stiicking to boundaries.. As far as I can tell, the reason I developed feelings was because my Wife and I were not friends, our married wasn't solid, we both had psychological problems which didn't help our marriage at all.
My Wife and I are still together, work in progress and rebuilding trust. Its hard work.
Open and solid boundaries are necessary, agreed.
Hmm, as a woman, I’m *entirely* capable of being friends with men. I have male friends who aren’t sexually interested in me and I don’t harbor feelings for them either.
Imo, I think most men not being able to do this is more of a societal problem than a “male problem” and it isn’t all their fault. One major reason why the current world isn’t conducive to platonic male/female relationships is because men just aren’t trained to know the difference between flirting and friendliness in women, and I mostly blame their upbringing and equally ignorant peers. Modern men also have no way of getting emotional care and seem to lack confidence in dating. As a result, they tend to glom onto one “special” woman who is nice to them rather than branch out to find other ones, so they’re more desperate and see imaginary romance potential where there isn’t any. A more securely attached man would be less apt to do that.
If someone is married or in a serious relationship, though, I think hanging around alone with best friends of the opposite sex for long periods of time should be a thing of the past.
I've had only close male friends. The key is non-attraction. Either asexual, homosexual or married. Any hetero single guys have other motives
Sounds like smart boundaries!
It's a maturity thing. I'm gonna be hanging with my late wife's best friend for lunch. We get together once a month usually and talk about our lives. I have no desire to sleep with her. But if I need help, her and her husband will be there for me if they can. I would do the same for them. Support circles.
Why do you guys meet once a month by yourselves tho?
@@Coalition4NewerVision It's not always just her. Sometimes her husband or sister come along. We're family friends.
Yes a lot of people find comfort like this with a late spouse's friends, that can be a good connection.
I had a male friend who i find totally unattractive (sorry). He insisted on being my friend, he swore he saw me as his sister; but somehow I always felt a little uncomfortable around him, but I didn’t hear my gut; fast forward he was telling his friends i was his girlfriend!, i felt so betrayed and emotionally abused, now i don’t talk to him, but he is so desperate to keep looking for me, sending me messages, trying to get my attention. Would he do that if one of his male friends stopped talking to him? Absolutely not, he has feelings for me, never told me but used me like his girlfriend substitute, and i hate i was involved in this, i wish I wouldn’t have been so naive, now he wont stop stalking me jeeez
Thank you for sharing your experience. It's completely understandable to feel betrayed and violated in this situation. Your friend's behavior was very disrespectful. Do you think this experience has impacted your ability to rebuild your trust in other male friends?
Family can also be predatory.
That's true.
My DA boyfriend of 4 months has 2 best friends, both of which are women. He did tell me at one point he did have a crush on one of them.
He also is connected to his former girlfriends on social media.
I've addressed the ex girlfriend thing and how it makes me uncomfortable, not that I don't trust him, but I find it hard for him to still be connected to them
He doesn't see a problem with any of this and I don't know any other way of talking about this without coming across as jealous or demanding. Especially knowing, more than likely, nothing will change.
and what was his answer when you actually addressed these problems?
@AttachmentAdam he just says he doesn't see a problem with it. He's not interested in them. He mentioned they were a part of his life and there's not a problem with it. He acts like the issue is all mine.
When him and I first started getting serious, he did stop talking to his most recent ex. I did express it made me uncomfortable because they would talk via text, granted she was simply getting dating advice about the guys she was dating.
But for some reason he let her know he's in a relationship and it's inappropriate to continue to talk and blocked her on his phone and unfriended her on social media. Though previous girlfriends of his are still connected through social media.
As far as the girls who are friends with him, I feel like there's not much I can say. So I don't. But it was hurtful when he mentioned they were not only his friends but his best friends.
Most of my male friends are gay, and now I understand why. One of my long-time male friends never made advances, but has confessed to me several times about his attraction and even suggested we have a relationship. Even though I have been consistently telling him no, he kept trying. And this made me feel uncomfortable. I had told him that I believe humans are biologically and evolutionarily designed to form intimate partner relationships and produce offspring. He said, "If you believe that, why wouldn't you be with me?" I told him, "Just because I believe that doesn't mean I'm going to settle". He finally understood and doesn't try anymore.
Confessing multiple times is definitely an indicator here...
I have a genuinely close, fellow artist female friend. We actually met on a date and both saw instantly that we would not be sexually attracted. I think that may be the secret. The dude doesn't want the woman's body.
So Harry, from When Harry met Sally, was right in the film & irl. That’s a bit of a shame tho…
Well, perhaps in most cases!
I have always had male friends. But I grew up with them. Once I got to my 20s I didn’t make male friends but I still have my hs male friends. They are like my big brothers.
As a man
What i get out of female friendship
I've said this forever once i experienced it first hand. men and women can't be friends. thank you ayet again Adam for saying truths that most are afraid to. keep educating the people and dispelling all these falsehoods and pointless beliefs. your knowledge is needed now more than ever.
It is truly difficult for most people, and it often ends in heartbreak.
My grandpa told me the only two men that can be friends with a woman is a gay man and one that's waiting 😂 he was born in 1930. I think this idea of men and women being friends is fairly new in just the generation past I don't recall ever seeing the opposite sex friends it was very rare.
It's interesting to consider how societal expectations and gender roles have evolved over the generations. What's your own perspective or opinion on this? Do you think there are still underlying societal pressures or expectations that influence how men and women interact?
Think they can if there’s no interest or there’s a big age difference marriage or in a relationship
Yeah I would think the age difference does help a lot. In my case it’s easy to be friends with older ladies cause obviously I’m not interested. But there are always people like my cousin who is 25 and is with a fuckin 47 year old and I’m like wtf are you doing
Big boundaries like that can actually help quite a bit.
100% sincere friendship?
Almost impossible. Chances extremely slim.
Have fun and somebody to talk to?
Sure - they can BUT there will probably be some attraction at some point. This is a weird dynamic, always a potential danger of somebody being hurt as well as a layer of "insecurity": e.g. is he/she just nice to me in hopes of taping some a$$ or is he/she truly on my side?
Sadly this is often the case - but if it leads into mutual romantic love, that can be great!
@@AttachmentAdam If. Those can then be really solid relationships.
This sounds like bisexual people shouldn‘t be able to be friends with anyone by the same logic and neither should gay people be able to be friends with folks of the same gender. But perhaps people can be friends alright even despite intermittend attraction to one another and it‘s not that big of a deal after all.
How about when the "friend" is a relative? A brother, a cousin, a nephew? Isn't it more appropriate to not have this desire to sexually bond in that scenario?
Family members often have specific mental features that prevent sexualization like that. There's a lot of fascinating research in this area.
It is always a shock to women who suddenly realize their male "friends" have ulterior motives. Attractive women are surrounded by "nice guys". If a woman wants to pursue a friendship with another man while in a relationship is a red flag.
Have you experienced situations where these types of friendships have caused challenges in relationships?
A better question would have been can Straight men and women be friends
Did you get a chance to watch the full video?
Once again, thanks. In particular (though not surprisingly given my childhood), I hadn't connected the safe availability of opposite sex friendship that extended family ties once provided. Such a great loss.
But in terms of accepting and working with current realities, I have three thoughts/scenarios to add:
1) It's a minor point, but no matter how healthy the man and the couple's communication about same sex friendships, I still imagine that one factor which alone would completely trash any such possibility for the guy would be a wife who consistently withholds sex.
2) How solid does the following sound? Friendship between two couples where everyone is clear that the focus is foremost to support the other couple's relationship (ideally incl some fun teasing) and second to support the same sex person (incl with even more good-natured jabs. :-).
So they would meet as all four together, guy-with-guy or gal-gal while avoiding time alone with the opposite sex of the other couple. Fool-proof? Too strict? Needs yet unmet?
3) Last, I'm pondering how healthy contact with my female friend of 16 years might look if/when I get into a new long-term 'ship. (At times, feeling too old for such shit; but just to speculate...) Her daughter and mine have always had a loose big-little sister connect. She and I dabbled early on with going beyond friends. But we (more me) realized that that path would probably quickly end up in homicide of one or the other. (Yes, I'm joking...kinda.) What would safe look like? Occasional email updates transparent with spouse, plus possibly the rare quick meet-up-while-in-town (also with spouse(s) there)? (Yeah, ultimately speculation is only...well, speculative until the rubber meets the road.)
These are excellent considerations. As for the friendship you're musing over, it sounds worthy of a conversation with your friend about what boundaries would need to be added if a new partner came along!
yes they can. At least people in larger cities with social circles. People that say it’s not possible only say so because it’s usually ONE guy, who is in total scarcity of friends and women in his life (and struggles to get any women in his life), will “friend” ONE woman and yeah, that’s a recipe for awkwardness and feelings being caught by one person or the other. These are the same people saying men and women can’t be friends all over the internet. When you have a lot of friends, of both genders, this whole conversation becomes a lot sillier.
Just because people have friends does not mean that male and female CAN trully be friends.
If you are a pretty and hot woman, chances are the huge majority of your male friends looked at your cleavage and @ss at some point and had thoughts about you.
You will probably never know that but there is a "lurking" desire to sleep with you. Thus, the friendship is never 100% sincere as the sexual dynamic/tension is there. At least for one side.
If that doesn't matter to you, then yeah - both can be friends but I think people would like to have friends with no hidden or second thoughts.
Yes the scarcity men are often the ones who do develop these feelings.
12:30
0.5%
One out of every 200 men is capable of properly separating their feelings from there feminine friends
That's brutal, but the research does seem to indicate it's vanishingly small.
Non we cannot be friends usually they want me to become their girlfriend. Oh I forgot the gay men can be just a friend but one of my gay male friends told me he had feelings for me wanted to take me on dates, I was shoked😮
She didn’t think having male friends was a problem, until I was a male friend to another woman.
Now we know what Adam said is right, do you really need intimate friends of the opposite sex if you want to have healthy relationship boundaries? Probably not, and let’s keep all mingling in group events.
It really is very complicated once people have life partners like this. Then the trust gets tricky.
Appealing men should want to be romantically involved with women who make desirable friends to men.
And vice versa.
Humans thrive in diverse communities of individuals, and not necessarily just kinship ties.
I would suggest that a person in a committed relationship who is sexually attracted to another person and invites flirtation is not suitable for any relationship.
I’d hazard that people with stronger support networks, and who have multiple sources of emotional connectedness, are unlikely to find value in a sexual attraction to a friend because that need is already met.
Ditto people who feel significance and achievement through other relationships and interests.
Do you mean that healthy romance is based on friendship, so single people who want to connect are likely to have those feelings?
Although that’s true, it wasn’t where I was heading.
My point is that people in healthy relationships also tend to have wider networks of healthy support - friendships, family, work relationship.
That means that there is a low level of underlying needs going unmet, so no need to seek validation or fulfillment outside the spouse/partner, and little to no temptation from opposite sex friends.
*work relationships
i'm a woman, my best friend is a guy.
He's a gay guy.
So, no chance of sexual feelings?
@@AttachmentAdam not from my side! my daddy issues are so severe I'm not interested in any kind of romantic relationship, and my libido has always been basically nonexistent. as for him, he's been pretty consistent in being gay for the last few years haha
If either finds the other attractive, even in the slightest, no. End discussion really, but I like the depth to which you went anyway. :)
The take-away is that as a man, you cannot tolerate your woman having male friends.
If she is with you, and not one of her orbiters, it means YOU are more attractive than them.
Which probably means SHE is more attractive than them, because otherwise she'd be with one of them, since women date up.
And men can't NOT get feelings for women they are around, that they perceive as attractive. And if a woman is higher on the scale than a man, he is generally going to find her attractive.
So, all your womans orbiters are going to be exactly that - orbiters. If she doesn't see and admit that, she's either dumb or lying. In either case, dump. No male friends. They will snipe and undermine and they are a safety net for her that demonstrates she isn't fully committed.
14:20 - Adam why do you say women who are alone are in danger and vulnerable?
I have strict boundaries with male friends. To maintain these friendships I never allow physical contact including hugging or kissing of any kind. I also never allow alone time (in a private home for example) with them. By this, I mean socializing in places where there are no other people within the close vicinity of us. I am always conscious of the fact that the dynamics between men and women can easily change especially if they have vasopressin bonded with one another.
Hey there, it sounds like you're following those boundaries for the same reason I described.
if you weren't in danger and vulnerable, you wouldn't seen all these rules now, would you
Eventually women want a relationship
Seems to be very common. Men, too!
One percent of men, one percent of women… because eventually they’ll find out what the men want 😂😂😂
And very possibly the woman also grows affection for the man.
I will say my father and my stepmothers new husband became good friends, and they were able to maintain a friendship. And because of this, my father could visit and spend time with my sister when he didn’t officially have the weekend with her.
That is positive, glad they had that outcome!
I have plutonic male friendships. You just have to make sure they’re not a pr0n addicted prick. Not easy to find but possible.
Found my best friend on platonic Craigslist hahaha 😅 we've been close for 6 years no problems
Sounds like a good filtering criteria.
could u elaborate on the porn addicted prick- please be specific. sincerely the[apparent] porn addicted prick. thank you
Just say she cheated on you with her male “friend”
Did that happen?
None.
Pretty common response!
I can see your points from a neurotypical and heteronormative perspective, but this hasn't been the case with lgbtq+ folks, neurodivergent (Autism and ADHD) or people who are polyamorous. There are many people who identify as those who are able to fluidly move between friendships and attraction, romanticism, because life and emotions are complex and not black/white.
Regardless of variance in the individual, making sure one has a secure attachment and direct communication about expectations and desires is the right answer to bring clarity to all relationships.