OM System OM-1 - Live ND Shooting: In-Camera Frame Averaging
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- Опубліковано 15 сер 2024
- OM System OM-1 - Live ND Shooting: In-Camera Frame Averaging
UA-cam
OM System OM-1 Expert Guide: In Live ND Shooting, the OM-1 is able to perform in-camera frame averaging and generating a noise-free ultra-detailed image on top of simulating the effect of a regular neutral density filter.
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Video Content:
0:00 Introduction
1:04 Live ND Shooting Basics
2:28 Live ND Shooting in Detail
4:24 Noise Reduction with Live ND
5:07 Dynamic Range and Clipping
6:55 Live ND in Practice
8:57 Live ND Exposure Metering
12:17 Closing Remarks
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Article: www.thomaseisl.photography/technique/om-system-om-1-live-nd
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Thanks 😊 I have so much to learn about the om1
Un video, como todos, fantástico. Tengo la OM1 y gracias a usted le puedo sacar algo más de partido. Gracias
Danke für dieses mehr als informative Video, nicht nur zur Thematik Live ND sondern Belichtungsmessung der OM1 im allgemeinen. Klasse!
Super! Das freut mich sehr zu lesen - vielen Dank!
Thanks
Thank you very much for your generous support! This is absolutely amazing, thank you very very much!
You rock the most -- this was equally concise and helpful. Many thanks!
Awesome, thank you!
Supporting your channel with a cup of coffee is a great bargain. Great technical content. I'm an enthusiast photographer and professional engineer specializing in computer vision. I hope you see your follower count grow. This is my favorite photography channel.
Thank you so much for your continued support of the channel both by donating and your kind words!
I very much appreciate that, it is great motivation to continue improving the content! Thanks!
Thank you for the clear and professional technical explanation.
Thank you very much for your kind words!
I had never thought of using Live ND for that purpose. I just use it for flowing water. I will keep that in mind. Thank you very much for the explanation on the shutter speeds, also the graphic on the spot metering and dynamic range was very helpful.
Larry, that is great to read - when recording the video I remembered that you asked me about more details regarding exposure metering - that is why I made the segment like this! I'm glad it was what you were looking for
Brilliant ! Thank you Thomas for pointing out the in-camera averaging / stacking operation which live ND does; I , too, found that all shot noise ( which for low light shots is the main kind , in low tones ) disappears.
Thank you very much for sharing your experiences - Live ND is underrated, it is a versatile function!
Thanks!
Thank you very much for your kind support, I very much appreciate that!
Thank you Thomas. This was very interesting and very informative. You have taught me a great deal about the OM-1. Learning about the Live ND Shooting is a feature I wanted to learn and know more about. I am sure I will go back and watch your explanation a few more times. This is a terrific feature the OM Systems have added to a wonderful camera. You've done a fantatsic UA-cam video as a service to us OM-1 camera owners. Your delivery is very easy to follow, as well as all your technical slides and points.👍 📷 👋 😀
Thank you very much Joel, great to read!
I agree, it is a terrific feature with many practical use cases.
Again, thank you very much for your kind feedback!
A masterclass - again! Your lectures are unmissable.
Thank you so much! That is just awesome to read!
I was going to write a forum post about Live ND and its 'secret' NR feature, but you beat me to it! I'll just post this video instead. 🙂
It's worth mentioning that even at base ISO, Live ND is worth it for lowering noise. Also, you can get really good camera JPEGs by using the tone curve adjustments.
Furthermore, it makes a lot of sense to use this feature by default, especially if you're a commercial photographer and your subject is not moving. Why would you not use it?!
Oh that is quite a coincidence! Well, maybe you want to write about it and include a link to the video?
Which forum, if I may ask?
I agree regarding with "why not use it" - there is basically no trade-off except limited shutter speed range.
And yes, even at ISO 200 there is a noticeable advantage!
@@ThomasEisl.Photography I posted it on photo.net: www.photo.net/forums/topic/548866-the-secret-feature-of-olympus-live-nd-noise-reduction/
Ohhh! Thank you very much for sharing the video there 😊 many thanks 🙏
You indeed have the talent for explaining complex topics to make them understandable to mortals.
Thank you - that is a very cool way to put it. I really appreciate that!
Good video, thanks! I just got an OM-1 and am really happy with it so far. For noise reduction above ISO 800, I've had good results getting in-camera averaging noise reduction up to the highest non-extended ISO (25600) by using the hand-held hi-res mode and then down-sampling the 50MP result back to 20MP. Very clean considering the ISO and no averaging required in post. Of course, you cannot have a moving subject or it will be blurred, similar to ND mode or averaging in post. The computational features of this camera are great.
Great to read!
Also, amazing technique you are employing. That is exactly the magic of OM cameras - if you you are willing and able to utilize the full range of capabilities they offer, you can achieve outstanding results.
Thanks for sharing that method - truly an excellent example how to push the envelope!
😮No one like that! Thank you very much 😊
Thank you very much Paolo!
Another fantastic video. Thankyou
Thank you very much!
Great information, most which can also apply to the EM1 Mk3!
Thank you! Absolutely! LiveND works pretty much the same in each model!
Wieder perfekt erklärt sodass es jeder versteht, können nicht viel. Chapeau
Vielen Dank, das ist wirklich sehr schön zu lesen!
Thank you Thomas. Once again a brilliant training video. I have the E-M1 mark iii and whilst only having ND32 max it works exactly as described. I compared it to images made using High Res mode on tripod and found them to be very close, but the HR mode still had some residual noise unlike the ND32 shot. It is a bit fiddly to get exposure right, but once mastered it is surprisingly effective. Keep up the great content. This is a real “Keeper”!
Thank you very much Tony, especially for your kind feedback and for sharing your experiences - they are congruent with mine! If no noise is the goal, LiveND is the way to go!
Excellent presentation. Thank you for demonstrating new uses for Live ND for enhancing color fidelity and reducing noise. I have only used it for blurring water in streams and waterfalls. This has worked very well, except in one situation. During the fall season when leaves are floating in the water, using Live ND produced a jagged line of leaf movement in the water from the multiple exposures. Otherwise, Live ND is an excellent tool.
Thank you very much for the kind comment!
Yes, it is not completely without flaws - what you are describing here seems to be a variant of the luminance clipping.
So sometimes, an ND filter is still opportune.
Thank you again, Thomas.
I do agree with you about the use of a tripod when using ND mode, but I have had some success using ND with hand held shots with shutter speed as low as one half of a second. As someone with unsteady hands this is quite amazing. When I was younger I was advised never to hand hold below one sixtieth of second!
Thanks for sharing that Tony!
Yes, 1 second is absolutely crazy if you think about it. When I pick up my DSLRs, I always have to remember that there is no powerful stabilization or I'll end up with blurry shots haha
Such a valuable guide for well explained features and their practical implementation Thomas. Always so helpful, not too theoretical but enough to help me gain a better understanding of the principles at play behind the tools.
That is so great to hear - thanks for the kind feedback Malcolm!
Informative as usual. Thank you for all the work you are putting into this.
Thank you very much Charles!
Another excellent instructional video, Thomas. Thank you so much! I am excited to use the live ND feature to produce noise free results, even on static subjects where no motion blur is desired. Your explanation reinforces my understanding of why and how this is possible, adding to the information previously presented in your video about the High Resolution functions.
With Live ND, there is now a way to achieve noise free results without producing the larger files of the High Res. mode. I plan to set one of my custom function modes to spot metering so that it is easier to switch and then utilize either High Res. mode, or Live ND. Other programmable buttons on the OM-1 or my EM1mk3 can be programmed to instantly utilize either of those exposure modes quickly.
Thanks again, and happy Springtime to you!
Thank you very much for your kind feedback and for sharing your experiences.
And I agree - LiveND is a great way to improve IQ without creating unnecessary high resolution files - this is exactly what I do as well!
Once you get used to spot metering, you most likely want to stick with it. I don't use it all the time, but for tricky situations, it is the best method to get excellent results.
Happy springtime to you as well, hope to hear from you again!
Professional equal to = "to use any function of a device in the only one method: the right". So, when Thomas tell us how to set exposure of a scene using ND filter, this is the correct one. The only one. But the main aspect is to explain it in a simple way, that also not professional users can understand. How many teachers are so clear explaining their lesson? Sergio from Milano, Italy
Thank you so much Sergio! I very much appreciate your kind words and your support on Ko-Fi.
It is great to have supporters like you - you make this channel possible! Thanks for that!
Thanks for the useful video. Donated a cup of coffee in thanks!
Many thanks for the feedback and the tasty cup of coffee!
Hi Thomas, great video and great point for spot metering.
By the way, there are more than 2 stops in DR with live nd 64 (measured by photonstophotos).
And there is another big limitation : maximum 60 sec long exposure.
It is sad as i am a very very long exposure photographer..
Despite that, i can assure than we have much less noise in long exposures vs previous models.
Thank you very much for your extensive comment and kind words!
1) I agree, there is more DR and the photonstophotos measurements match with my results. The reason why I always work with the "reduced" scale is that this ensures that even when small metering errors etc. occur, there is still enough headroom. I'm also very careful when it comes to the regular DR - I always keep it between -3 and +3.
2) Thanks for pointing out this limitation - I really forgot to mention that as I've never hit that wall with the kind of work I did up to now.
That's a good catch, I didn't realize they had done those tests and put them in a separate section.
I'm also curious what the bit depth of the live ND mode is. I'm guessing it's 12-bit given how Photons to Photos shows the PDR leveling out at about 12 stops. If that's the case, it seems like OM system missed an even bigger hit in this regard, as I'm sure a 14 or 16 bit file would let you pull out all the PDR potential of this technique, while also avoiding the dithering artifacts Thomas noticed. Sadly, I have a feeling it wouldn't be a simple firmware update, but it's probably something users should poke OM System about to see if they can add it to the Mark II at least
Very comprihensive and helpful video! Thaks
Glad it was helpful! Thanks!
Great Video -- I always felt other reviewers fell short on the OM-1, because all any of them ever did was use Live ND to shoot water. That, to me, is the difference between a User (of the OM-1) and a 'Reviewer' of an OM-1.
Has anyone ever coaxed or trained human clients to stay still long enough to use Live ND on them?
Thank you so much!
I've actually used it - ND2 at 1/60, and it works. However, the noise benefit is not that big at ND2, but it is there. So yes, if someone can hold still for 1/60 you'll be good!
Danke, danke, danke! Wie immer spot on - klasse erklärt! Mit deiner Arbeit leistest du einen großartigen Beitrag für alle OM-1 Fotografen, die diese tolle Kamera wirklich verstehen und beherrschen lernen wollen. Mach bitte weiter so. Herzliche Grüße aus Berlin! ❤️
Vielen herzlichen Dank! Das freut mich wirklich sehr zu lesen und ich danke Dir für die großzügige Spende! Danke vielmals! Liebe Grüße aus Wien! 📸
Thank you Thomas. As good as usual ! I practiced live ND and my conclusion after many shots is that the camera divides the indicated exposure time by ND number. By exemple if you set an exposure of 1" and a ND 64 setting, you will have 64 exposures of 1/64 of a second.
That means that at ND64 your minimum shutter speed would be of 1/128s by frame and 1/120s by frame at ND2
This is those exposure times that you must consider in your exposure settings and not the global time as indicated on your screen.
Thank you again for all your videos.
Many thanks for sharing that and the kind feedback! Awesome 👍👍
Great video!
Thanks!
Great explanation of live ND on OM cameras Thomas!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks!
Man, you are smart! Thanks!!!!!
That is very nice of you! Thanks
You are a delight to learn from Thomas & thank you so much for great professional videos!
Thank you so much for your kind words and your generous support! That's amazing!
Interesting feature! Nice video!
Thank you!
Thank you Thomas. Hands down the best information about the om one available. I will need to see if you have done a video on mtering because that is something I am always struggling to get right.
Thank you very much Dustin!
Yes, I did a video on that as well - you can find it in the OM-1 playlist on my channel.
Hope the video will help, feel free to get in touch if not!
thanks for the interesting insights. Well done.
Thank you Michael! Appreciate it!
Excellent explanation! You really give meaning to the technical features and how to make the most of it. Don't have the OM-1 camera. But each of these videos is a step in that direction
Thank you very much for your kind words! Well, you can do a lot with the OM-1 - it is a great tool and I love working with it 😄
Excellent, thanks. Spot metering detail video might be an idea too 😀
Thank you very much!
I've already got one vid about the OM and exposure metering, but (spoiler) I'm working on a dedicated series on exp metering in digital photography, where I will include a dedicated video on spot metering! Thanks for bringing this up!
Thanks Thomas. Another useful video. There's a lot here to think about. Interesting that the "popular wisdom" says to expose to the right, never starve a cropped sensor etc. It appears that this camera handles shadows much better than past m. four-thirds cameras. I am very satisfied with the dynamic range of this camera, including live nd shooting.
Hey Jon! I agree - the OM-1 has excellent dynamic range. ETTR brings more problems than it solves, in my opinion. As long as you deliberately place tonal values "inside" the available dynamic range, everything is perfectly fine. I have another video on dynamic range that discusses that in greater detail.
Best wishes and thanks for the nice comment!
I learned a lot!
Great to read!
Hello Thomas and thank you I will have to try this feature on my Olympus OM-D E-M1X and see how it turns out once again thank you kind regards Howard Rollinson
Great - I'm sure you'll love the results! Best wishes!
I think the Live ND is great for good light photography when you want to stop down a lot of the shutter speed. For the night time I'll still use the Live Composite mode.
Thanks for sharing!
Genius
Thanks
If I understand correctly, the shutter speed displayed in ND mode = sum of all images speed to achieve correct exposure for each individual shots? I.e. with ND4, and a 1/10 sec exposure, the speed that is actually displayed is 1/10sec x 4 = 4/10sec = 1/2.5 sec?
Sorry I'm not quite sure whether I got your question, here is how it works:
The displayed shutter speed is the total exposure time - you can use this value for metering and everything. However, the image is a combination of many images.
So ND4 at 1/60 is actually 4 images at around 1/15.
Let me know if this helped!
An excellent video, always very informative. I have always enjoyed them. By the way, I'm traveling to Vienna next month. Where would you recommend me to go and take good photos? Will all these magnificent palaces be lit up at night?
So great to hear that you will come to Vienna!
The good news is: Most locations will indeed be lit like the examples in the video - so if you bring your OM/Olympus, you can definitely get some very interesting (LiveND) images.
I would definitely recommend spending time in the 1st district and the "Ring" - but if you are looking for a very special shopping experience, go to the Westbahnstraße, as it is full of camera stores - many of them selling second hand gear at good prices.
Shoot me an e-mail if you like!
@@ThomasEisl.Photography Thank you so much.
Dear Thomas, Many thanks for the deep analysis of using ND Filters in new OM-1 Mark II, it is really of high scientific value. My question is, when OM System will be launching a new 28 Migapixel Sensor. Best regards from Egypt.
Thank you very much for your kind words! Note that this video is covering the OM-1 mark I. However, the mark ii is very similar, just better. I have no information regarding a new 26 MP camera, but I personally hope they stick with 20, as this is enough resolution for everything, I'd say and it allows you to have very high readout speeds without noticable drawbacks in terms of noise / DR.
Best wishes from Austria and thanks for the comment, Thomas 📸
Thomas, thank you for the video! I was extremely curious if the frame averaging would result in noise-reducing benefits!
Also, did you do any tests looking for motion artifacts of subjects moving a substantial amount vertically or diagonally across the frame during the whole live ND exposure? I think all the examples I saw here only had horizontal motion, but I'm wondering what happens as an object moves vertically while the sensor scans down the frame.
Another thing I'm curious about, do you know if the OM-1 is doing (or is able to do) any dark frame subtraction with live ND enabled?
Hey there - many thanks for another very thoughtful and relevant comment.
Regarding your questions:
1) The artifacts don't really change depending on the movement. The blur of the subject will change as it moves on a different axis, but that is all. The overlap will still have the same shape, from what Imy testing showed.
2) After LiveND, the OM-1 won't perform dark frame subtraction, no matter which settings you choose. In practice, that is not an issue I'd say, as the noise reduction through the frame averaging is huge and there is no real need for the dark frame subtraction.
Hope this helps!
12:11 Interesting stuff! And explained like no one else can. The finale image looks great, but what exactly did you do in post? And is that a required step? If so, doesn't that sort of undermine the idea of Live ND?
Thanks for bringing this up!
I lifted the shadows with the "shadows" function and adjusted the exposure a bit in OM Workspace.
It is usually not necessary to do it this way, this was just meant to illustrate the latitude of the Live ND file and that you can achieve a very wide dynamic range with this function - if you meter correctly.
If I would not have exposed for the shadows and highlights, I would have most likely blown the one or the other - at least in terms of exceeding the high fidelity range.
This is really a very specialized case for getting very high IQ by "abusing" the function!
I have been playing with this feature trying to learn about my camera. It appears that when you go into the low iso settlings, 80 and 100, the dynamic range shifts to the shadows by a stop (-5 to +1.7). But the blocking in the shadows appears much better and looks good down to -6ev. This would also have the benefit of slowing the shutter speed by up to 1 1/3 stops. I’m not sure if this is actually what is happening or if my testing is flawed.
That might be possible! It is really worth conducting tests like you did to optimize the results - thanks for sharing that!
Thank you for the quality content and information. Question: Are the computational modes like Live ND and the Live Composite mode able to be saved to a C1 C2 C3 C4 dial setting?
Thank you very much for your kind feedback! Yes you can save them to these custom modes!
Hi Thomas.
Quick question please.
Is it possible to use something like a normal nd1000 filter And the live nd feature together,for very bright conditions?.
Am quite interested in Olympus and its computational abilities!
Many Thanks on your great channel.
Hey there!
Yes you can - it's mix and match without any disadvantages.
The computational modes are really worth trying, they are not gimmicks, but professional features. So if you get an OM-1, you will sure love those.
Many thanks for your kind words! I appreciate that!
Great video Thomas. Can you use the nd filter in body with an external nd filter too? And can you use the in body nd filter it with an external Nisi polarizer? Thanks
Hey Deb!
To answer all your questions with one word: Yes - all of these combinations work perfectly fine.
Best wishes!
Super interesting video. Hadn't thought about using Live ND for "noise reduction". Using HiRes-mode has a similar benefit on noise if I've understood it correctly. Using the ND64 should give most exposures per pixel, but HiRes have more pixels and can be down sampled again. Have you compared the two modes.
Thanks for asking and the kind feedback!
So I've not compared a downsampled High Res shot with a Live ND shot yet.
One thing I can state for sure is that the LiveND file is incredibly clean (although it can suffer from these clipping effects I described). If you run a test, please get in touch and share the results, I'd be super interested in them! Best wishes, Thomas
Thank you for an excellent video. I notice you are not using the histogram with this feature. Is there any particular reason for this. I have begun relying on the histogram than the meter to judge exposure, so not seeing the histogram is a little unnerving.🤠
Indeed, I would recommend using the histogram in general. In this case, I just deactivated it to give everyone a better view. Best, Thomas
Here is what I am trying to ask you, when I am using a real nd filter on a regular camera,I have to use the Lee app to help me figure out the correct shutter speed with the stops I have chosen. Like in I need a 10 second to get the correct exposure, then I add a 6 stop filter and I have to manually adjust the exposure to compensate for the 6 stop. So here is my question dose the om1 automatically set exposure after I deal it in when in Manuel
?…….
See my previous reply.
Also, keep in mind if you are metering through the lee filter, your camera compensates for the loss of light as it sees less light. If you use an external meter, you have to set the filter factor as the meter does not know which Filter you are using. Live ND is like a filter in front of your lens. For ease of use, I recommend the built in exposure meter. Hope this helps!
Here is my question when I am using the nd on my om1 do I set the shutter speed with the meter and then the camera will connect it to make it longer ? I still not understanding what I need to do
Just try taking a photo in A mode with ND on and one with ND off. Both will exhibit the same brightness but different shutter speeds.
Hi, I wonder if you can help me? I have an EM1 Mk iii and a Godox flash. When I use the flash, the full power flash setting is always greyed out so I can only use fill in flash. I have tried everything I can think of but I have never got the full power flash option to become available.
Do you possibly have any ideas about what I'm doing wrong? Thanks.
I would love to help you with that, but I have no idea what the problem is, unfortunately. I do not use Godox, so I cannot really test that now. I'm sorry :-(
@@ThomasEisl.Photography thanks for the reply anyway 👍
Most welcome, hope you can solve the problem
@@ThomasEisl.Photography 🤞
Is it available in JPEG mode only, or in RAW as well?
Both for JPEG and RAW - that is why it is so useful. The RAW file will be practically noise free, regardless of RAW converter. Very powerful feature, I'd say.
Can this be used for a total eclipse
Yes. But it does not protect the sensor from the strong light. Always be careful when capturing such phenomena.
Dear Thomas (if I may), I've been watching your OM1 video tutorials with great admiration. Recently I've made an experiment comparing the HighRes mode with results achieved with Gigapixel AI. I'd be very curious and grateful to learn about your opinion: ua-cam.com/video/ZM6b3fWWyW8/v-deo.html. Many thanks in advance, yours, György
Thank you very much for your kind words! Just watched your excellent video and left a comment!
Another excellent tutorial Thomas, thanks you indeed. I found you whilst researching the OM1 System before I purchased. I am happy to say I have now purchased my new OM1 System thanks to all your incredibly useful reviews and advice. Early days yet, and a long learning curve, but i am enjoying the OM1 immensely. Please keep up the excellent work and helpful advice for all us Olympus users. Cheers, Ray (London UK)
Thank you very much, Ray!
Thanks!
Thank you very much for your kind support!
Thanks
Thank you very much !
Thanks!
Thank you very much for your support!