From Batman Vs. Dracula to Justice League Crisis On Two Earths and everything in between, I wanted to discuss my *honest thoughts* on Batman as a character after 4 years of catching up on his comics and growing up with his animated series and movies as a kid. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this discussion even if you disagree! 🤕🙏
@@Ben-rd1ge Ooo I haven't seen Doctor Who yet but it's one of those things that I really want to one day when I get the time! Like Lord Of The Rings and Harry Potter. Haha 😆👍
Every time i find myself to discuss this "no kill rule" with someone I just say this: I agree that a vigilante should not take the life of the criminal , it is not his job or right , BUT JESUS CHRIST WHAT ABOUT THE DEATH PENALTY, in a realistic scenario a person like the joker would have already been killed by the penal justice system, for real it is so simple.
Honestly, it's the writers' fault. They won't Joker because he is the most iconic and popular Batman villain for a lot of prople. And originally DC made the no killing rule in the old days because it's easier than creating new villains all the time.
I fully agree. I know Batman's whole thing is no killing, but it's honestly kinda stupid. Some of the villains who were just broken people who just needed someone positive in their lives like Ace, or Baby Doll. It was tear jerking to see him not be like some other heroes and would just put them behind bars or even end their lives. Villains like the Joker though deserve to die. They literally need to die. There's broken people who just need help and there's villains who are too far gone to ever help and need to be put down. I will never understand why Batman wouldn't just kill the Joker. He has done horrifically cruel things that very much tell the audience that he will never be a normal human being again, no matter how much rehabilitation he goes through. And if Batman truly can't let go of his "don't kill" rule, he could at least let the other heroes kill Joker to finally end the traumatizing things he's done to people.
There is one explanation in the comics why Batman doesn't kill that makes a bit more sense. Batman doesn't kill because he is afraid that he would loose controll and turn into something like the punisher. Basicly he is afraid that once he starts killing he wouldn't be able to stop again. But tbh, it still seems like the lesser evil compared to all the evil and suffering his villains cause. And if the writers don't wanna go that route Batman needs a different way to take out his villains without killing them. Like permanently putting them in a coma and plugging their mindseinto a virtual world like in matrix for example.
I kinda hate that explanation, it sounds like bruce should just let the work to some of the robins and only be support. Dc leaned a lot on that since 2017 gifthing a card to defend batman's negligence in dark knights but still sounds like bsht to me. Also that explanation doesn't work considering all the times batman refuses to let the criminals die by someone elses hand.
What always gets me about this argument is that Batman is not the king of Gotham. He's not making law. He doesn't own it. It's not his moral responsibility to do anything. He's a criminal who fights other criminals because that's how people respond to trauma and violence in his world. And they get away with it because they don't have finale say. There's an entire society that should be making the call on these criminals and nobody seems to want to blame the Gotham legal system. And why is it always Batman who gets this? I never see anyone say it's Spider Man's moral obligation to kill Carnage and he's way more dangerous than the Joker.
Yeah the legal system is broken but bruce helps that brokeness when he is supposed to be better. On a sidenote, spiderman not killing carnage is understandable because more ofthen than not he can't, the symbionte is just that hard to kill even when defeated. Although I will never stop thinking spiderman saving green goblin from JJ's bullet is dumb, although at least Norman hasnt done anything murderous since that.
That's why I like the BTAS Batman the most. He is fighting a neverending fight and he knows it. Mask of the Phantasm did a great job portraying his grief towards his parents. Almost like survivors guilt. He is a deeply troubled person. Yet despite it all, he tries to stay compassionate. He tries to stand for a just Gotham, to be a symbol of hope. Arkham Batman is the same way. But he's faced with versions of those same villians who all go too far. And he desperately doesn't want to become like them. The whole series is practically him trying not to become a monster. With a very fitting end to it. In the end, he did become one. On his own terms. Batman can work as a pacifist. As long as you portray the struggle and sometimes the senselessness of it in a fitting manner
Even though I agree, I think it's narratively interesting as well as hilariously comical that what is essentially the most worlds most capable police officer won't kill some of the worst people on earth😂
Another major reason Batman doesn't kill is because he believes in second chances. He wants to give the criminals he faces the opportunity to change and become better people instead of letting their worst days define them. It's been shown villains like Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Clayface, Mr. Freeze, Killer Croc, and even Bane are capable of good if given the time. Plus others like Riddler and Two-Face are mentally ill and if given the help they need, they too can be reformed
Didnt even provide the full context of why batman doesn't kill, not wanting to cause others to lose people important to them isnt the only reason, just watch under the red hood
First point: I love Batman, he is for sure one of if not my favorite character of all. But he is actually likely one of the most hypocrite of all. "whoever protects the wolf condemns the sheep"
A point your missing is that Batman is a symbol to millions of people in Gotham city and the world in the DC Universe. If he started killing his criminals at ALL, it would tarnish the legacy of what Batman stood for. Protecting life, and not taking it. Gotham has been in the middle of the worst impoverished state and crime rate in the world, with killings and robbery being the norm. Batman wants to steer Gotham away from that kind of life, and keeping the criminals scared, while inspiring HOPE into the people of Gotham, by not becoming a killer such as the ones he fights. It's literally an institutional issue that these criminals are not properly contained or put out of commission. Batman is just a part of the criminal justice process. To say he should go beyond those bounds would give him even more extra-judicial power which ( let's face it ) GCPD would not put up with either. If he started killing, GCPD are REQURED to take him in, which makes his job alot harder given his current state of being a known figure in the world. Bottom line, Batman killing is NEVER a good idea.
I think its not efficient. Him leaving criminals alive would just make the people think its a never ending nightmare with joker etc. At some point people would not care what batman stands for rather just want the nightmare to end.
yeah not gonna lie I don't even blame batman at this point almost all of his villains should have been sentenced to death hundreds of times over by now, or should at least be sent somewhere with better security or something
I blame both institution and Batman for not getting rid of that rabid animal by now. The institution for not giving out the sentencing. And Batman for participating in his self given enforcer role that ultimately perpetuates this cat and mouse game with Joker. Batman isn't legally responsible for killing Joker. But this legal responsibility argument breaks apart when Batman is not responsible to do anything at all. He defined his own responsibilities which is direct opposition of the law. So Batman is a cherry picker when it comes to what laws he wants to break. And that's due to his morality. In which whether you agree or not, It is definitely something more subjective than the legal defense so many tried to make look Batman objectively right.
@@thedivine1ite461 But we can all agree, Gotham is infact a better place than it was before Batman. Batman is having a positive effect in a society that doesnt WANT to change.
From Batman Vs. Dracula to Justice League Crisis On Two Earths and everything in between, I wanted to discuss my *honest thoughts* on Batman as a character after 4 years of catching up on his comics and growing up with his animated series and movies as a kid. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this discussion even if you disagree! 🤕🙏
have you seen the doctor from doctor who he has a moral system that is very interesting
@@Ben-rd1ge Ooo I haven't seen Doctor Who yet but it's one of those things that I really want to one day when I get the time! Like Lord Of The Rings and Harry Potter. Haha 😆👍
video by red hood
You bet your sweet bippy it is
Batman doesnt take life because he is first and foremost, a detective.
Every time i find myself to discuss this "no kill rule" with someone I just say this: I agree that a vigilante should not take the life of the criminal , it is not his job or right , BUT JESUS CHRIST WHAT ABOUT THE DEATH PENALTY, in a realistic scenario a person like the joker would have already been killed by the penal justice system, for real it is so simple.
Honestly, it's the writers' fault. They won't Joker because he is the most iconic and popular Batman villain for a lot of prople. And originally DC made the no killing rule in the old days because it's easier than creating new villains all the time.
I fully agree. I know Batman's whole thing is no killing, but it's honestly kinda stupid. Some of the villains who were just broken people who just needed someone positive in their lives like Ace, or Baby Doll. It was tear jerking to see him not be like some other heroes and would just put them behind bars or even end their lives. Villains like the Joker though deserve to die. They literally need to die. There's broken people who just need help and there's villains who are too far gone to ever help and need to be put down. I will never understand why Batman wouldn't just kill the Joker. He has done horrifically cruel things that very much tell the audience that he will never be a normal human being again, no matter how much rehabilitation he goes through. And if Batman truly can't let go of his "don't kill" rule, he could at least let the other heroes kill Joker to finally end the traumatizing things he's done to people.
You sound like you've been hanging out with Red Hood lol. Great vid.
Red hood is right
Thanks, I appreciate that! 🙏☺️
There is one explanation in the comics why Batman doesn't kill that makes a bit more sense. Batman doesn't kill because he is afraid that he would loose controll and turn into something like the punisher. Basicly he is afraid that once he starts killing he wouldn't be able to stop again.
But tbh, it still seems like the lesser evil compared to all the evil and suffering his villains cause.
And if the writers don't wanna go that route Batman needs a different way to take out his villains without killing them. Like permanently putting them in a coma and plugging their mindseinto a virtual world like in matrix for example.
I kinda hate that explanation, it sounds like bruce should just let the work to some of the robins and only be support. Dc leaned a lot on that since 2017 gifthing a card to defend batman's negligence in dark knights but still sounds like bsht to me.
Also that explanation doesn't work considering all the times batman refuses to let the criminals die by someone elses hand.
What always gets me about this argument is that Batman is not the king of Gotham. He's not making law. He doesn't own it. It's not his moral responsibility to do anything. He's a criminal who fights other criminals because that's how people respond to trauma and violence in his world. And they get away with it because they don't have finale say.
There's an entire society that should be making the call on these criminals and nobody seems to want to blame the Gotham legal system.
And why is it always Batman who gets this? I never see anyone say it's Spider Man's moral obligation to kill Carnage and he's way more dangerous than the Joker.
Yeah the legal system is broken but bruce helps that brokeness when he is supposed to be better. On a sidenote, spiderman not killing carnage is understandable because more ofthen than not he can't, the symbionte is just that hard to kill even when defeated. Although I will never stop thinking spiderman saving green goblin from JJ's bullet is dumb, although at least Norman hasnt done anything murderous since that.
That's why I like the BTAS Batman the most. He is fighting a neverending fight and he knows it.
Mask of the Phantasm did a great job portraying his grief towards his parents. Almost like survivors guilt. He is a deeply troubled person.
Yet despite it all, he tries to stay compassionate. He tries to stand for a just Gotham, to be a symbol of hope.
Arkham Batman is the same way. But he's faced with versions of those same villians who all go too far. And he desperately doesn't want to become like them.
The whole series is practically him trying not to become a monster. With a very fitting end to it. In the end, he did become one. On his own terms.
Batman can work as a pacifist. As long as you portray the struggle and sometimes the senselessness of it in a fitting manner
Even though I agree, I think it's narratively interesting as well as hilariously comical that what is essentially the most worlds most capable police officer won't kill some of the worst people on earth😂
Another major reason Batman doesn't kill is because he believes in second chances. He wants to give the criminals he faces the opportunity to change and become better people instead of letting their worst days define them. It's been shown villains like Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Clayface, Mr. Freeze, Killer Croc, and even Bane are capable of good if given the time. Plus others like Riddler and Two-Face are mentally ill and if given the help they need, they too can be reformed
How many chances have the joker had? how many people had died because of it?
W video. Really underrated!
Nah if anything gotham need a death penalty, but Batman is 100% right
Didnt even provide the full context of why batman doesn't kill, not wanting to cause others to lose people important to them
isnt the only reason, just watch under the red hood
if you think Batman should kill then you dont understand Batman
First point: I love Batman, he is for sure one of if not my favorite character of all. But he is actually likely one of the most hypocrite of all. "whoever protects the wolf condemns the sheep"
I thibk he should kill but not murder. I think he should be like goku
@@jmgonzales7701 Ofc, mate. Thts wt i meant
Modern? He’s had these problems since the 80s. Maybe earlier.
A point your missing is that Batman is a symbol to millions of people in Gotham city and the world in the DC Universe. If he started killing his criminals at ALL, it would tarnish the legacy of what Batman stood for. Protecting life, and not taking it. Gotham has been in the middle of the worst impoverished state and crime rate in the world, with killings and robbery being the norm. Batman wants to steer Gotham away from that kind of life, and keeping the criminals scared, while inspiring HOPE into the people of Gotham, by not becoming a killer such as the ones he fights. It's literally an institutional issue that these criminals are not properly contained or put out of commission. Batman is just a part of the criminal justice process. To say he should go beyond those bounds would give him even more extra-judicial power which ( let's face it ) GCPD would not put up with either. If he started killing, GCPD are REQURED to take him in, which makes his job alot harder given his current state of being a known figure in the world. Bottom line, Batman killing is NEVER a good idea.
I think its not efficient. Him leaving criminals alive would just make the people think its a never ending nightmare with joker etc. At some point people would not care what batman stands for rather just want the nightmare to end.
yeah not gonna lie I don't even blame batman at this point almost all of his villains should have been sentenced to death hundreds of times over by now, or should at least be sent somewhere with better security or something
I blame both institution and Batman for not getting rid of that rabid animal by now. The institution for not giving out the sentencing. And Batman for participating in his self given enforcer role that ultimately perpetuates this cat and mouse game with Joker. Batman isn't legally responsible for killing Joker. But this legal responsibility argument breaks apart when Batman is not responsible to do anything at all. He defined his own responsibilities which is direct opposition of the law. So Batman is a cherry picker when it comes to what laws he wants to break. And that's due to his morality. In which whether you agree or not, It is definitely something more subjective than the legal defense so many tried to make look Batman objectively right.
@@thedivine1ite461 yes batman is already illegal and by law already a criminal. I dont get why he has to save them goon.
@@thedivine1ite461 But we can all agree, Gotham is infact a better place than it was before Batman. Batman is having a positive effect in a society that doesnt WANT to change.
Bruh
You think Batman is sane? Batman is a crazy person that knows he's insane. That's why he made a rule. That is what separates him from what he fights.