That really brought back memories of my once in a lifetime trip from Avery to the crew change at Alberton. It was awesome climbing the Bitteroot mountains to the summit and 1.6 mile tunnel at East Portal. The train had 2 SD 40’s and 2 Little Joe’s. Train manifest said it was 5900tons train. As we were climbing the Bitteroot the engineer told me to sit in his seat so he could take a picture. The date was May 24 weekend 1973, definitely one of my most memorable moments.
@@anb7408 yes, I think it was about 1 month later that the cut power. As we were climbing up the grade to the summit the engineer asked me if I would like him to take a picture of me in his seat, it was a along day as I had to get a ride back to Avery. I sat in the middle seat. The ride back in the dark was punctuated by times of sleep 😴
I'm 78 and worked for the Milwaukee back in the 60's, 70's & 80's up until she closed down. That last clip brought back some memorys. I made the run between Tacoma and Cle Elum many times. Most of the old heads are probably gone by now but this old rail is still kicken. Thanks for the memorys.
Growing up, I lived in Cle Elum and St. Maries Idaho. Cle Elum had both the Northern Pacific/Burlington Northern and the Milwaukee going through. My father managed a chip plant west of town for the NP/BN. On one side of the property was the Milwaukee and the other had the NP/BN. I can still remember the odd sound the Milwaukee electrics made when they rolled by. Living in St. Maries, I remember the sound of the train whistle echoing across the St. Joe and St. Maries River valleys. Good memories.
Thank You for posting! I was in Montana in 1979, and kick myself for not taking photos in the Haugan area. I still visit Haugan, St. Regis, Cyr, Alberton often when up in Montana.
I grew up just a couple of blocks from the Milwaukee Depot in Lennox, SD. As kids we would hang out there and learned a lot about railroading. I hung out there even through high school until they closed the depot. I even got to ride in the engine while they worked switching cars in the yard. I remember the engineer's name was "Wimpie". How times have changed.
Yes, nice job with the editing Lee and this footage is awesome! I just watched it for the first time today. You really wouldn't know it's not the actual sounds to what was filmed. 👍 Are these films on any Milwaukee Road DVDs?
I was around in the early 1980s about when I was in high school when me and my Dad came upon the Milwaukee Road's tracks on a bridge near Pingree Grove on highway 72 at highway 20 and we passed under a westbound freight. Then about 15 miles later at Genoa we saw the same train. It was the Milwaukee Road's Ford Fast special like the train at 9:50 with four engines and we proceeded to chase it west toward Monroe Center as it clawed up the steep grade. Man was that a blast! It was also during a thunderstorm as I recall.
Amazing, thanks for sharing. It's so odd to see a train go through east portal, as it's now a biking trail that I've ridden on too. I really wish they were still around.
Yes, I wish I could have gotten a recording of them. Someone in the Milwaukee Road historical society said they'd try to find for me but I never got any. Had to make do with what I had.
@@robertramsay5963 I apologize...its been so long since I did that video. I went to my full list of train sounds and there was a set for Milwaukee railroad. I forgot that I had those. The fellow DID send me some clips. So, yes, that is a Little Joe horn. Thanks for jolting my memory.
@@LeeWitten sure. It was a terrific piece. That 😘 in my comment was a typo and supposed to be a second 👍, as in two thumbs up. I don’t want you to get the wrong idea. 🤣 👍👍
I watched the movie "Lights Out" on Turner Classic Movies last night. This movie was produced by the long defunct RKO in 1930. The movie was about railroaders and was filmed in Montana, using Milwaukee Road as the railroad the actors worked for. Scenes were shot in an engine repair shed, in the yard wherever it was located, as well as using actual Milwaukee Road steam engines and rolling stock, plus cabooses, for other scenes. You can see the Milwaukee Road logo on the engines and rolling stock, plus on the caps worn by the actors. Also, the engines display CMSP&P. It's a look at railroad history. One of the main actors was Robert Armstrong, who would go on to some fame as the entrepreneur who hunted King Kong and brought 'Kong' back to NYC. The female lead was played by a young Jean Arthur, who some might recall as the mother in "Shane" from 1952.
I liked their no-nonsense paint scheme. Trains Magazine, back in the late 70s, had a great article on their F-unit helpers out of Tacoma. The As were powered and the B units were slugs. I think they had a six-unit consist of the Fs that did that work.
They were called “Mr. Clean’s machine” and were put together for the tortuous climb out of Tide Flats Yard in Tacoma. The B-units were unpowered slaves for added traction that took their power from the A-units. After the embargo they were stored here in Minneapolis-still in their A-B-A configuration.
Awesome channel.. I'm building up my G scale collection of Milwaukee road,, wisconsin central,, wisconsin & southern.. your videos help me with painting ideas.. I have 3 engines to convert... thanks 👍
I started my collection last year I have moved it from the basement into the attic for more Room when I move to my next property I will put it outside... You can check my stuff out on my channel..
4:00 Damn, those cars are rocking! The poor track. Surprised they were allowed to go that fast. RIP Milwaukee Road. The Pacific Extension shouldn't have been abandoned.
Following the bankruptcy, the trustee found that the Pacific Extension actually made money, but Milwaukee managers were such poor managers that they didn't know it.
@@stephenheath8465 they never had the traffic that BN did. But the audit of Milwaukee Road ledgers showed that what they had would have been profitable had it been managed better. Milwaukee leadership killed the railroad, not the lack of freight to haul.
@@vicsaunders To add insult to injury, General Electric offered a very favorable deal to the Milwaukee to not only modernize the Pacific Extension, but to close the gap between the two electric segments. Not only that, said deal was to be largely paid for by General Electric as they wanted a test bed for their new electric locomotives and saw the Milwaukee as a perfect candidate for their testing. The Milwaukee would have got a modern railroad and GE would have got a customer and test bed for their locomotives. Naturally, The Milwaukee Road turned this proposal down.
Bad management and differed maintenance was what did in the Milwaukee Road. The Coast Division was not only one of their most profitable lines, it was also the best engineered route through the Cascades, giving them access to imported goods in Tacoma, plenty of timber in Southwest WA, and lots of other commodities. But they spent so much money buying brand new diesels to replace their electrics that they could maintain the division very well; and when the 1970s oil crisis hit, those diesels got even more costly to operate than the more fuel-efficient, environmentally-friendly electrics. And while trackage rights over BN would've kept the line afloat a bit longer, it was too late at this point to save it. I recall hearing once that the bike path over Snoqualmie Pass has the option to revert back to a rail line, but unfortunately, it's probably never going to happen.
Redneck2393 I live not too far away from a part of the Milwaukee right of way in Maple Valley WA, do you know anything about the Milwaukee road in the cedar river area
If history will tell you, a railroad cannot make money properly without fixing up the right of way with quality ballast, ties and welded rail. Most of the other competing railroads saw this and they needed these to stay in step with government subsidized competitors like highways and trucks. Sadly, the Milwaukee Road had none of these due to poor management decisions and lack of proper track maintenance that started way back in the 1950s. Consequently, the Milwaukee Road therefore was forced to be saddled with substandard track and ties and gravel for its ballast for just about its entire life as a railroad.
Sorry! none to my knowledge. I am connected to paternal grandfather (the late) Lester K. Jarvis, who lived on Rule Street in Keene, NH all his life (but, not at the same house).
Floyd was an avid railroad enthusiast. His father worked for the Rio Grande Railroad. Floyd did also and was in the Air Force then worked as a railroad policeman for the Union Pacific. After his death a few years ago we found that he had willed a substantial library of railroad books, home movie film and memorabilia to the Union Station. I'm uploading several of his digitized films to UA-cam.
Even back then with steam locomotives did something like that. Well o think for some railroads cause I seen a video of a the N&W y6bs and class As doing a locomotive at the front and one at the back for the hopper cars going mountains
From 1980-2010, from Ford plant to dntn stpaul,5.5 miles,10mph track,hop in back of pick-up ( new) watch the sights thru the residential hoods,at union depot hop off bus home,still here 43 yrs,tracks last used 2012,torn up any day👍
Management of the MIlwaukee Road stuck the knife in the back of some of the most loyal and dedicated employees a railroad had ever had when they drove the railroad to it's knees in the mid seventies. In "The Nation Pays Again" it said that an accounting "error" showed the Pacific Extension to be a hopeless money loser, when in fact it consistently made the railroad money. Granted, the BN merger was hard on the Milwaukee but the railroad was almost guaranteed a profit by new gateways and trackage rights given it as conditions of the merger. Management failed to capitalize on them. A sad tale indeed.
Mangers & CEO'S suck. It was a nice railroad my parents to the train a lot & had a much nicer & the best of any of the railroads much better than NP, UP or GN.
IIRC, I read somewhere there was an accounting error that really was an error where they accidentally double counted the companies debt. I don't think it was intentional and by the time it was discovered it was too late since plans were put in place that shaped the railroad's future.
Great video. The Milwaukee was such A neat railroad. What is with the guy on the 3rd unit at 8.03? I wonder if he just hoped A ride or its A employee. You can sed him in other shots if you look closely.
Wow, good eyes. i never noticed that. It looks to be an employee with his gear bag ready to get off at the next crew change. I don't know if a hobo would be so out in the open like that.
Had the Milwaukee Road had been GIVEN GENEROUS LAND GRANTS like the northern Pacific and great northern, and built in the powder River basin coal fields and better management they would have survived! I miss America's Resourceful railroad.
Don't forget that the MILW was NOT allowed to interchange traffic most anywhere along its route, thanks to the Hill Line's influence with the ICC. Only after the BN merger was the MILW allowed traffic rights in Billings and trackage rights into Portland (specifically the SP), which increased transcontinental business by 50%.
In building it's Pacific extension, the Milwaukee Road had to negotiate for it's right of way in an over inflated real estate market while the G.N. and N.P. were land grant railroads charted in the 1860s.
Likely would've been merged into another system by now anyway. Don't get me wrong, Even living in Indiana at that time, the Milwaukee was still a favorite as I routinely saw it's power on Erie Lackawanna freights.
@@dknowles60 I HAVE NOTHING TO LIE ABOUT HISTORY! Read about the Pacific Railroad Acts signed by Abraham Lincoln of 1863; 1864; 65 and 66 (which took effect after he died.) The Great Northern Railroad DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY ANYONE FOR THE LAND. The G.N. paid the workers to lay the rails to the Pacific coast, but WHO did they pay for the right of way ? Why would Lincoln sign land grants for the Northern Pacific, Union Pacific , and Southern Pacific Railroads and NOT the G.N.? DON'T FALSELY ACCUSE ME OF LYING WHEN I'M REPOSTING WHAT I'VE READ from Britannica and Wikipedia! Nothing to debate about here.
@@SCRANE1115 It's really caused by staggered, bowed ("hogback") rails. The rocking motion it creates is exactly the same as the freight car's natural harmonic rolling frequency, so the motion at that specific speed becomes unstable. The only reason the cars stayed on the track was the pull of the couplings.
I always thought a be a great excursion train from Haugen Mt to Avery idaho instead of a silly bike path. take the one box cab and the other electric that still live in Montana bring them back to life
@@kadebruce295 the game Trainz had the electrified mountain secton and it was done by a couple of European guys that worked on it for a long time. The graphics were average however they absolutely nailed the atmosphere. The route, substations, bridges, tunnels, wooden catenary poles and mountains i could strangely recognize in this vid. A great pity the Little Joe cab was a work of peasant graphics, however the long climb and descent of the route took about 2 1/2 hours a md was quite challenging. A crossing of another heavy freight on the east side of summit portal on the downhill crossing loop was fun. You get a red with 4500 tons on the downhill with full dynamics on the Diesels was just great. So you can relive it - sort of.
Early on those mid train units were manned, at least the first unit in the group. Until the ability to electronically tie all the locomotives to the head end power that was the only way. Sometimes you can see an engineer in one of the mid train units.
This so hard breaking to see good employees, Railway gone Those beautiful old right a way and track is gorgeous.....great concept only if greed was left out....We. knew some old WLR CREWS ...WOW WHAT PRIDE.....
Neat film. I never saw Milwaukee trains running that fast unless they were on someone else's track! As to the RR's demise, CTCBoard ran a good series on the death of the railroad about 20 years ago. The "best engineered line" myth has been promoted forever won't ever go away. If it was really so great, it would have been purchased by another railroad after MILW went under. In reality, it was lots of helper districts, each separated by lots of miles. It may have required good engineering to place the line, but it was not the best line at the end of the day. There is a good analysis comparing Milw, GN and NP lines from Chicago to Seattle. When apples to apples comparisons are done, the MILW line comes up short - requiring more helpers, more crews, more loco's, etc. I think the article is available off the GNRHS.org website. It's a good read, and will give you lots of things to argue about with your buddies. Not that it will change a die-hard MILW fan's mind! As a friend told me, "The patients been dead for 40 years, but the autopsy is still ongoing!"
Thank you for your comment. I just recently found out about the fascinating Milwaukee Road Pacific Extension and started reading a lot about it. However, as it is often the case with intriguing "what if" hypotheses, the reality, apparently, was rather bleak. You can find the analysis you mentioned here: www.gngoat.org/MILW2014.pdf. In short: the "superiority myth" was just that, a myth - even though it persists to this day, as other comments here clearly show.
@@exhorderhdA lot of great information , but really comparing an old out dated milwaukee to a newer better BN isn't a fair comparison . Because im guessing the Milwaukee would've re routed many of its worst sections of the Pacific Extension by now also i'm pretty sure they would've opened up many of the tunnels as well .Obviously your a big B.N . fan . Im not saying you are wrong about everything just a little biased .
@@bradhardy2629 nice try. I am European and thus couldn't care less about either company. Since I found out about Lines West, the thought of modern trains rolling through the amazing landscapes around the Pacific Extension has been intriguing, really. But the article I posted compares 1970s BN tracks to the MILW ones, and the simple truth, as posted by vzw 2557647, is this: if the right-of-way really were that attractive, BN or other companies would have continued operating on it (in fact, Mark Meyer states that the only section worth preserving would have been Snoqualmie Pass). It is no coincidence that the Milwaukee Road hadn't replaced its tracks since the 1930s, and that only a few short sections were reprofiled in the 50s. They simply did not make enough money, and the article makes a very detailed case why.
hey that's a very aswome program you got here thanks for sharing, there is talks of bringing an old Milwaukee diesel from the Pend Orielle Railroad that has ties to Seattle back to Cle Elum, are you aware of it as well ?
This must’ve been after the Iowa Division expatriates came to Montana to run trains, and didn’t give a damn about the 10mph slow orders! They’d run 50+!
I really wish there were annotations to tell me which direction some of these trains are going. I could really use that information for research purposes.
This video was a compilation I made from several films and unfortunately didn't give directions. Take a look at Harris #20 ua-cam.com/video/ofJeKbCF0ww/v-deo.html. I do give show more directions on some trains and maybe you can figure out others from that.
The Milwaukee, Rock Island and Katy were all bled dry by corporate raiders who had no other goal than to make huge sums of money and pay nothing out. Yes, the employees all were short changed badly.
you need to get your facts right. Katy was in very great shape. they were hapy to be taken over by the UP RR Rock island was wining in the End. Stupid carter mess things up with a back to work order milwaukee did then selfs in by not taking care of the track since the end of WW2
Here's a interesting thought Milwaukee had a neat concept on little Joe's...Could hybrid engine work in this case on Steven pass,Snoqualmie on Bnsf....??
What a shame the government let the Milwaukee road scandal go by without doubt checking the actual numbers on their earnings. I live in Austin and we were a division point at one time . I always wanted to work for the Milwaukee. Ended up working for the Soo and Canadian Pacific. The C.p is the biggest bunch of assholes I've ever worked for .
These days in the Pacific Northwest it's now BNSF doing the hauling while up in Canada it's Canadian Pacific doing the rounds over Kicking Horse Pass and Rogers Pass. Now that CP now has the former Milwaukee Road, I believe that it's doing a rather fine job hauling the freight in the late great MILW's stead.
That's a sound clip that came with Apple's iMovie app to use in movie projects. It seems to have been created by someone using the Apple Garage band app. That's all I know about it.
I noticed they stop blowing their horn a few feet before they get to the crossing. They're supposed to stop blowing the horn when I get to the crossing
@@LeeWitten Little Joe has my favorite horn, the Wabco E2 horn. I'm sure they'll never bring that horn back. I used to hear that horn on the Seaboard Coastline back in the 70s
@@chrishinnant3924 Yes, its the actual images of the trains from that era that's important. I could have just uploaded silent films but that's not as watchable as having some sound with it. Thanks for your comments. At least I know someone is watching these. ha Ha!
@@chrishinnant3924 I'm mostly familiar with western railroads. My dad was a UP conductor from 1938 to 1974. I really like the Little Joe. Wish I had seen it in person.
Only if the amount of oil needed to generate the electricity was less that running the train. But with Solar or wind, maybe it could be made more beneficial.
Well, bless your heart, that must have been bitter-sweet seeing the video. My father died three months from retiring from Union Pacific but it was while he was on a golf course and not at work.
MILW purchased the SD45s in 1968 for Master-slave sets specifically for use on the PCE. #4000-4005 (re #6-11) were masters, #4006-4009 (re #12-15) were slaves. Later (1973) MILW added SD40-2 Master-slave sets, #16-20 masters, #21-29 slaves. Other folks can add in of course if corrections needed.
SOME OF THE MID TRAIN UNITS WERE GOING DEAD IN TRAIN BECAUSE OF MECHANICAL PROBLEMS (D.I.T.) SOME RRS RAN DITS A FEW CARS BACK IN THE TRAIN, OTHERS WOULD RIUN DITS AT REAR OF THE LOCOMOTIVE CONSISTS!
If I'm not mistaken, graffitti became a costly nightmare for the RR's in the mid-to-late 80's -when drug gangs and their fans started using rail cars to practice their "art." I fondly remember the MILW crossing the Cascade Mountains with long trains consisting of the then fairly new idea of COFC and TOFC flatcars, auto-racks, and specialized commodity cars. Now, it's mostly all gone. True, deferred maintenance to make the railroad look "profitable" on paper for a potential buyer ruined the MILW. But the MILW wasn't the only line that did that. Competitors CNW and Rock Island did the same. Bad management and lack of foresight came in to play. The 70's were a tough time for the railroads. At least the MILW always looked great and was in many ways as much a Pacific Northwest road as the GN, NP, and SP&S!
@@tarmac2001 cold hard fact. it you know any thing about rail roading. if you have steep grades you cant run heavy trains milw had a lot of 2.5% grades. Bn and Up did not. Bn and UP had a lot of CTC and long passing sidings . The MILW did not. over Apx 800 miles BN only change crews 4 times. to do the same Distance MILW change crews 8 times
@@dknowles60 Those are some hard disadvantages I see. I didn't know there were that many grades that steep. I heard there was also a lot of deferred maintenance and investment cutting to lean up in hopes of attracting a buyer
@@tarmac2001 John Kenefick Up rr CeO Almost brought the MILW in the end. by then the track was in to poor shape and would have costed to much money to fix up even for the rich UP rr
All the customers & Especially the Employees of the Milwaukee road. Should've had a class action suit against the company and surface transportation board . An independent investigation into the books and the intentional sabotage of the Milwaukee should've been done . There would've been alot of assholes going to prison. The Bn probably would have had there asses sued as well .
@@dknowles60 I guess you didn't know that they sent at least 1 manager to the Milwaukee road to work. In a high up position. Then he returned to the B.N . For a short time. To download his information. Only to return to the Milwaukee for the final Sabotage of the railroad. Making crucial decisions that crippled it. Quinn was. His name and he was a B.N implant.
@@bradhardy2629 how young are you. Bn did not waste much time on the Milwaukee. they had a way biger problem. the Power river coal boom they had to rebuild a lot of their rail road for coal traffic
@@dknowles60 clueless aren't you . I lived it asshole . watched many good families lose everything when the lines rolled themselves up and disappeared . thanks to the B.N
Even if the MILW had survived, by 2017 it'd be the same generic thing as everywhere else: ugly-looking Darth Vader-like wide cabs coming at you and caboose-less trains. I long for the days of varied road motive power, full crews, 25 to 30 Class I RR's, and freight cars sans that horrid grafiti (I'm totally for cutting off the hands of those caught in that act of vandalism)
I respect those Milwaukee Road engineers who had the courage to run flat-out on track that was no longer being maintained.
Those were ex. Iowa Div. engineers who transferred to Montana and were used to 60mph flat running. Slow orders be damned!
That track was at one time very well maintained for passenger train service.
You can sure see the cars rocking and lurching in some scenes.
That really brought back memories of my once in a lifetime trip from Avery to the crew change at Alberton. It was awesome climbing the Bitteroot mountains to the summit and 1.6 mile tunnel at East Portal. The train had 2 SD 40’s and 2 Little Joe’s. Train manifest said it was 5900tons train. As we were climbing the Bitteroot the engineer told me to sit in his seat so he could take a picture. The date was May 24 weekend 1973, definitely one of my most memorable moments.
I like your little story. That's neat what you got to experience.
Nice…..and not too long before they cut off the overhead power and mothballed the entire electric fleet.
@@anb7408 yes, I think it was about 1 month later that the cut power. As we were climbing up the grade to the summit the engineer asked me if I would like him to take a picture of me in his seat, it was a along day as I had to get a ride back to Avery. I sat in the middle seat. The ride back in the dark was punctuated by times of sleep 😴
Yep, that sounds about right. The Cascade electrified section lasted a bit longer until 1974 when they turned off the power on it too.
I'm 78 and worked for the Milwaukee back in the 60's, 70's & 80's up until she closed down. That last clip brought back some memorys. I made the run between Tacoma and Cle Elum many times. Most of the old heads are probably gone by now but this old rail is still kicken. Thanks for the memorys.
Glad this had some meaning for you. This video gets a lot of views and comments.
Growing up, I lived in Cle Elum and St. Maries Idaho.
Cle Elum had both the Northern Pacific/Burlington Northern and the Milwaukee going through. My father managed a chip plant west of town for the NP/BN. On one side of the property was the Milwaukee and the other had the NP/BN. I can still remember the odd sound the Milwaukee electrics made when they rolled by.
Living in St. Maries, I remember the sound of the train whistle echoing across the St. Joe and St. Maries River valleys. Good memories.
Thank You for posting! I was in Montana in 1979, and kick myself for not taking photos in the Haugan area. I still visit Haugan, St. Regis, Cyr, Alberton often when up in Montana.
You're welcome. Glad to have stirred up some memories.
I grew up just a couple of blocks from the Milwaukee Depot in Lennox, SD. As kids we would hang out there and learned a lot about railroading. I hung out there even through high school until they closed the depot. I even got to ride in the engine while they worked switching cars in the yard. I remember the engineer's name was "Wimpie". How times have changed.
Thanks for the comments. I like personal remembrances like that.
Great video, I was probably there, going back and forth to Aberdeen, SD every summer to see family!!!
I really love finding older footage and the audio just made it even better!
Great put together, thanks for sharing it.
Thank you very much for the nice comment. Makes me feel that it is worthwhile when people enjoy the results. I'm working on another video right now.
Yes, nice job with the editing Lee and this footage is awesome! I just watched it for the first time today. You really wouldn't know it's not the actual sounds to what was filmed. 👍
Are these films on any Milwaukee Road DVDs?
Great Video I remember seeing Milwaukee Road in Dresbach Minnesota back in the 80's
Glad this brought back memories for you.
I was around in the early 1980s about when I was in high school when me and my Dad came upon the Milwaukee Road's tracks on a bridge near Pingree Grove on highway 72 at highway 20 and we passed under a westbound freight. Then about 15 miles later at Genoa we saw the same train. It was the Milwaukee Road's Ford Fast special like the train at 9:50 with four engines and we proceeded to chase it west toward Monroe Center as it clawed up the steep grade. Man was that a blast! It was also during a thunderstorm as I recall.
Nice that you had that personal experience with the M R. Thanks for the information.
Hey Scooby, I lived in Hampshire from 68-79 right next to the Milwaukee RR tracks. My dad worked for them. I know Pingree Grove well.😀
Amazing, thanks for sharing. It's so odd to see a train go through east portal, as it's now a biking trail that I've ridden on too. I really wish they were still around.
Oh, I didn't know it had become that. That would be something to bike through there.
The air horns on the little Joes had a unique sound.
Yes, I wish I could have gotten a recording of them. Someone in the Milwaukee Road historical society said they'd try to find for me but I never got any. Had to make do with what I had.
They sound authentic to me, at least judging by what I've heard on other videos.
@@robertramsay5963 I apologize...its been so long since I did that video. I went to my full list of train sounds and there was a set for Milwaukee railroad. I forgot that I had those. The fellow DID send me some clips. So, yes, that is a Little Joe horn. Thanks for jolting my memory.
Anytime. Just hope I didn't cause you to break a knuckle when I jolted your memory.
@@robertramsay5963 Nope, made it through fine, no humping!
Wonderful footage and sound !
Thank you, appreciate the comment. Happy Holidays!
1 of favorite railroads and you can tell it's old with those open car carriers and electric engines
Great video. Thanks for taking the time to share it with us.
This is great historical record and some fantastic footage. Many many thanks. 😊👍😘
Thanks for the comment, appreciate it.
@@LeeWitten sure. It was a terrific piece. That 😘 in my comment was a typo and supposed to be a second 👍, as in two thumbs up. I don’t want you to get the wrong idea. 🤣 👍👍
Great video! My father and grand father tore up the Milwaukee line from Spokane to the state line in the 80s.
I watched the movie "Lights Out" on Turner Classic Movies last night. This movie was produced by the long defunct RKO in 1930. The movie was about railroaders and was filmed in Montana, using Milwaukee Road as the railroad the actors worked for. Scenes were shot in an engine repair shed, in the yard wherever it was located, as well as using actual Milwaukee Road steam engines and rolling stock, plus cabooses, for other scenes. You can see the Milwaukee Road logo on the engines and rolling stock, plus on the caps worn by the actors. Also, the engines display CMSP&P. It's a look at railroad history. One of the main actors was Robert Armstrong, who would go on to some fame as the entrepreneur who hunted King Kong and brought 'Kong' back to NYC. The female lead was played by a young Jean Arthur, who some might recall as the mother in "Shane" from 1952.
"Danger Lights"
Yes. Danger Lights. Filmed between Harlowton and Lombard in Montana Canyon. Strange they used steam locos instead of the boxcabs available.
I've watched several Milwaukee Road videos, this one has great footage and is free!
Was just in St Regis Montana last month, checked out the old Milwaukee Road bridge, looks a bit different to say the least.
I can imagine. I've never actually been there myself.
I liked their no-nonsense paint scheme. Trains Magazine, back in the late 70s, had a great article on their F-unit helpers out of Tacoma. The As were powered and the B units were slugs. I think they had a six-unit consist of the Fs that did that work.
They were called “Mr. Clean’s machine” and were put together for the tortuous climb out of Tide Flats Yard in Tacoma. The B-units were unpowered slaves for added traction that took their power from the A-units. After the embargo they were stored here in Minneapolis-still in their A-B-A configuration.
Awesome channel.. I'm building up my G scale collection of Milwaukee road,, wisconsin central,, wisconsin & southern.. your videos help me with painting ideas.. I have 3 engines to convert... thanks 👍
I'm an HO modeler so I can relate to what you're doing. Do you have a G scale garden railroad?
I started my collection last year I have moved it from the basement into the attic for more Room when I move to my next property I will put it outside... You can check my stuff out on my channel..
4:00 Damn, those cars are rocking!
The poor track. Surprised they were allowed to go that fast.
RIP Milwaukee Road. The Pacific Extension shouldn't have been abandoned.
Following the bankruptcy, the trustee found that the Pacific Extension actually made money, but Milwaukee managers were such poor managers that they didn't know it.
@@vicsaunders Wasn't they losing market competition to BN at that time?
@@stephenheath8465 they never had the traffic that BN did. But the audit of Milwaukee Road ledgers showed that what they had would have been profitable had it been managed better. Milwaukee leadership killed the railroad, not the lack of freight to haul.
@@vicsaunders To add insult to injury, General Electric offered a very favorable deal to the Milwaukee to not only modernize the Pacific Extension, but to close the gap between the two electric segments. Not only that, said deal was to be largely paid for by General Electric as they wanted a test bed for their new electric locomotives and saw the Milwaukee as a perfect candidate for their testing. The Milwaukee would have got a modern railroad and GE would have got a customer and test bed for their locomotives. Naturally, The Milwaukee Road turned this proposal down.
@@vicsaunders wrong. it is tough to make money on 6 trains a day
Glad I found this. Love this history.
Video has a lot of useful info for correct lettering on many rolling stock types thank you for sharing this valu ble asset .
Great. I'm a model railroader and know how valuable that info is.
So stylish those Joe's!
Bad management and differed maintenance was what did in the Milwaukee Road. The Coast Division was not only one of their most profitable lines, it was also the best engineered route through the Cascades, giving them access to imported goods in Tacoma, plenty of timber in Southwest WA, and lots of other commodities. But they spent so much money buying brand new diesels to replace their electrics that they could maintain the division very well; and when the 1970s oil crisis hit, those diesels got even more costly to operate than the more fuel-efficient, environmentally-friendly electrics. And while trackage rights over BN would've kept the line afloat a bit longer, it was too late at this point to save it. I recall hearing once that the bike path over Snoqualmie Pass has the option to revert back to a rail line, but unfortunately, it's probably never going to happen.
Redneck2393 I live not too far away from a part of the Milwaukee right of way in Maple Valley WA, do you know anything about the Milwaukee road in the cedar river area
If history will tell you, a railroad cannot make money properly without fixing up the right of way with quality ballast, ties and welded rail. Most of the other competing railroads saw this and they needed these to stay in step with government subsidized competitors like highways and trucks. Sadly, the Milwaukee Road had none of these due to poor management decisions and lack of proper track maintenance that started way back in the 1950s. Consequently, the Milwaukee Road therefore was forced to be saddled with substandard track and ties and gravel for its ballast for just about its entire life as a railroad.
@@LighthouseProductions1 Renton to Maple Valley was owned by the BN (ex-GN, ex-Pacific Coast). Milw tracks started at Maple Valley heading east.
Read “The Milwaukee Electrics” by Noel T Holley and you’ll find all your observations are incorrect.
Enjoying your video here. Thank you!
Thank you. Any relation to Floyd Jarvis?
Sorry! none to my knowledge. I am connected to paternal grandfather (the late) Lester K. Jarvis, who lived on Rule Street in Keene, NH all his life (but, not at the same house).
Floyd was an avid railroad enthusiast. His father worked for the Rio Grande Railroad. Floyd did also and was in the Air Force then worked as a railroad policeman for the Union Pacific. After his death a few years ago we found that he had willed a substantial library of railroad books, home movie film and memorabilia to the Union Station. I'm uploading several of his digitized films to UA-cam.
Bouncing like a basketball every trip...oh jesus!
Great footage. Never knew that MILW used what are now known as DPUs
Even back then with steam locomotives did something like that. Well o think for some railroads cause I seen a video of a the N&W y6bs and class As doing a locomotive at the front and one at the back for the hopper cars going mountains
It was called locotrol.
From 1980-2010, from Ford plant to dntn stpaul,5.5 miles,10mph track,hop in back of pick-up ( new) watch the sights thru the residential hoods,at union depot hop off bus home,still here 43 yrs,tracks last used 2012,torn up any day👍
Like the grade crossing crossbuck at 5:10 - a pair of these are still there at a private crossing in Kingston, Illinois.
Love the footage at St. Regis, MT!
Glad that had some meaning for you. I've never been in that area.
Management of the MIlwaukee Road stuck the knife in the back of some of the most loyal and dedicated employees a railroad had ever had when they drove the railroad to it's knees in the mid seventies. In "The Nation Pays Again" it said that an accounting
"error" showed the Pacific Extension to be a hopeless money loser, when in fact it consistently made the railroad money. Granted, the BN merger was hard on the Milwaukee but the railroad was almost guaranteed a profit by new gateways and trackage rights
given it as conditions of the merger. Management failed to capitalize on them. A sad tale indeed.
Thanks so much! I will look into this, amongst other things MILW (and Monon, too.)
And as far as I know, they blamed all of their losses on electric operations...
Very Sad!
Mangers & CEO'S suck. It was a nice railroad my parents to the train a lot & had a much nicer & the best of any of the railroads much better than NP, UP or GN.
IIRC, I read somewhere there was an accounting error that really was an error where they accidentally double counted the companies debt. I don't think it was intentional and by the time it was discovered it was too late since plans were put in place that shaped the railroad's future.
That was a classic! Love it!
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for commenting.
Track speed good, but a good bit of rock and rolling. Nice footage.
Most of the rocking, you'll notice, is on empties, not loads. The truck springs don't flex much when empty.
Great video. The Milwaukee was such A neat railroad. What is with the guy on the 3rd unit at 8.03? I wonder if he just hoped A ride or its A employee. You can sed him in other shots if you look closely.
Wow, good eyes. i never noticed that. It looks to be an employee with his gear bag ready to get off at the next crew change. I don't know if a hobo would be so out in the open like that.
Nope. He was a "rider."
Had the Milwaukee Road had been GIVEN GENEROUS LAND GRANTS like the northern Pacific and great northern, and built in the powder River basin coal fields and better management they would have survived! I miss America's Resourceful railroad.
Don't forget that the MILW was NOT allowed to interchange traffic most anywhere along its route, thanks to the Hill Line's influence with the ICC. Only after the BN merger was the MILW allowed traffic rights in Billings and trackage rights into Portland (specifically the SP), which increased transcontinental business by 50%.
In building it's Pacific extension, the Milwaukee Road had to negotiate for it's right of way in an over inflated real estate market while the G.N. and N.P. were land grant railroads charted in the 1860s.
Likely would've been merged into another system by now anyway. Don't get me wrong, Even living in Indiana at that time, the Milwaukee was still a favorite as I routinely saw it's power on Erie Lackawanna freights.
@@kevinfoster8685 why do you lie on you tube. Gn never got any land grants
@@dknowles60 I HAVE NOTHING TO LIE ABOUT HISTORY! Read about the Pacific Railroad Acts signed by Abraham Lincoln of 1863; 1864; 65 and 66 (which took effect after he died.) The Great Northern Railroad DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY ANYONE FOR THE LAND. The G.N. paid the workers to lay the rails to the Pacific coast, but WHO did they pay for the right of way ? Why would Lincoln sign land grants for the Northern Pacific, Union Pacific , and Southern Pacific Railroads and NOT the G.N.? DON'T FALSELY ACCUSE ME OF LYING WHEN I'M REPOSTING WHAT I'VE READ from Britannica and Wikipedia! Nothing to debate about here.
I just love this, Terrific
Oscar
Thank you Oscar!
At 4:00 lucky those box cars stayed on the track!!
They were rockin and rollin!
They call it "harmonics", but, on a moving train, it sure doesn't seem like harmony,
reminds me of the quality of permanent way we have in NSW (Australia)! Rock 'n' Roll indeed!
@@SCRANE1115 It's really caused by staggered, bowed ("hogback") rails. The rocking motion it creates is exactly the same as the freight car's natural harmonic rolling frequency, so the motion at that specific speed becomes unstable. The only reason the cars stayed on the track was the pull of the couplings.
I always thought a be a great excursion train from Haugen Mt to Avery idaho instead of a silly bike path. take the one box cab and the other electric that still live in Montana bring them back to life
Trucker Erik JOURNEY'S I completely agree!
@@kadebruce295 the game Trainz had the electrified mountain secton and it was done by a couple of European guys that worked on it for a long time.
The graphics were average however they absolutely nailed the atmosphere. The route, substations, bridges, tunnels, wooden catenary poles and mountains i could strangely recognize in this vid.
A great pity the Little Joe cab was a work of peasant graphics, however the long climb and descent of the route took about 2 1/2 hours a md was quite challenging. A crossing of another heavy freight on the east side of summit portal on the downhill crossing loop was fun. You get a red with 4500 tons on the downhill with full dynamics on the Diesels was just great.
So you can relive it - sort of.
0:37 this lash up is ingenious.
Yes, that is great.
Lee were those "mid units" operating like a DPU, and if so how were they controlled? Thanks for posting this video!
Early on those mid train units were manned, at least the first unit in the group. Until the ability to electronically tie all the locomotives to the head end power that was the only way. Sometimes you can see an engineer in one of the mid train units.
The control system was allied locotrol.
This so hard breaking to see good employees, Railway gone Those beautiful old right a way and track is gorgeous.....great concept only if greed was left out....We. knew some old WLR CREWS ...WOW WHAT PRIDE.....
Neat film. I never saw Milwaukee trains running that fast unless they were on someone else's track! As to the RR's demise, CTCBoard ran a good series on the death of the railroad about 20 years ago. The "best engineered line" myth has been promoted forever won't ever go away. If it was really so great, it would have been purchased by another railroad after MILW went under. In reality, it was lots of helper districts, each separated by lots of miles. It may have required good engineering to place the line, but it was not the best line at the end of the day.
There is a good analysis comparing Milw, GN and NP lines from Chicago to Seattle. When apples to apples comparisons are done, the MILW line comes up short - requiring more helpers, more crews, more loco's, etc. I think the article is available off the GNRHS.org website. It's a good read, and will give you lots of things to argue about with your buddies.
Not that it will change a die-hard MILW fan's mind! As a friend told me, "The patients been dead for 40 years, but the autopsy is still ongoing!"
Interesting comments. Thanks. I haven't followed railroad company histories other than a few western one, UP, Rio Grande, Western Pacific.
Thank you for your comment. I just recently found out about the fascinating Milwaukee Road Pacific Extension and started reading a lot about it. However, as it is often the case with intriguing "what if" hypotheses, the reality, apparently, was rather bleak. You can find the analysis you mentioned here: www.gngoat.org/MILW2014.pdf.
In short: the "superiority myth" was just that, a myth - even though it persists to this day, as other comments here clearly show.
@@exhorderhdA lot of great information , but really comparing an old out dated milwaukee to a newer better BN isn't a fair comparison . Because im guessing the Milwaukee would've re routed many of its worst sections of the Pacific Extension by now also i'm pretty sure they would've opened up many of the tunnels as well .Obviously your a big B.N . fan . Im not saying you are wrong about everything just a little biased .
@@bradhardy2629 nice try. I am European and thus couldn't care less about either company. Since I found out about Lines West, the thought of modern trains rolling through the amazing landscapes around the Pacific Extension has been intriguing, really.
But the article I posted compares 1970s BN tracks to the MILW ones, and the simple truth, as posted by vzw 2557647, is this: if the right-of-way really were that attractive, BN or other companies would have continued operating on it (in fact, Mark Meyer states that the only section worth preserving would have been Snoqualmie Pass). It is no coincidence that the Milwaukee Road hadn't replaced its tracks since the 1930s, and that only a few short sections were reprofiled in the 50s. They simply did not make enough money, and the article makes a very detailed case why.
ditto that
4:00 holy shot that wobble tho
Shall we dance?? That was kind of a funny scene.
hey that's a very aswome program you got here thanks for sharing, there is talks of bringing an old Milwaukee diesel from the Pend Orielle Railroad that has ties to Seattle back to Cle Elum, are you aware of it as well ?
This must’ve been after the Iowa Division expatriates came to Montana to run trains, and didn’t give a damn about the 10mph slow orders! They’d run 50+!
Great stuff
Thanks Chad
At 5:05 was the train driver honking a hello at the person video recording, or was it a special signal for leaving the yard?
Actually the sound clip and the video scene are not related as the sound was dubbed with the horn sound.
Superb!
I really wish there were annotations to tell me which direction some of these trains are going. I could really use that information for research purposes.
This video was a compilation I made from several films and unfortunately didn't give directions. Take a look at Harris #20 ua-cam.com/video/ofJeKbCF0ww/v-deo.html. I do give show more directions on some trains and maybe you can figure out others from that.
@@LeeWitten thank you Lee. The Harris films are absolute gold for me and my modeling. Please don't take my complaining too hard.
@@milwaukeetrainman9880 Oh, I don't, I'm a modeler also.
@@milwaukeetrainman9880 Which parts in particular? I can fill you in on train direction in just about all the scenes!
The Milwaukee, Rock Island and Katy were all bled dry by corporate raiders who had no other goal than to make huge sums of money and pay nothing out. Yes, the employees all were short changed badly.
The story of Donald John TRUMP!!!!!!!
you need to get your facts right. Katy was in very great shape. they were hapy to be taken over by the UP RR Rock island was wining in the End. Stupid carter mess things up with a back to work order milwaukee did then selfs in by not taking care of the track since the end of WW2
Milwaukee Road had a mid train helper at 4:35? Union Pacific does it now with ease
Called locotrol
Here's a interesting thought Milwaukee had a neat concept on little Joe's...Could hybrid engine work in this case on Steven pass,Snoqualmie on Bnsf....??
Electrified lines are everywhere in Europe but the greater distances in the US make it more costly. Hi speed hybrids might be a good compromise.
They were doing mid units when no one else was. I now see it being done by CSX .
southrn did it long befor MILW
Not called a train driver! You run a train, you drive a car. Odd numbered trains were westbounds, even #s were eastbounds
The Best
Whistling at the person.
What a shame the government let the Milwaukee road scandal go by without doubt checking the actual numbers on their earnings. I live in Austin and we were a division point at one time . I always wanted to work for the Milwaukee. Ended up working for the Soo and Canadian Pacific. The C.p is the biggest bunch of assholes I've ever worked for .
Keep up the good work, co sends me a check every month.
on boy that track looks Rough
These days in the Pacific Northwest it's now BNSF doing the hauling while up in Canada it's Canadian Pacific doing the rounds over Kicking Horse Pass and Rogers Pass. Now that CP now has the former Milwaukee Road, I believe that it's doing a rather fine job hauling the freight in the late great MILW's stead.
I take it sound was added in and not part of the original film recording?
Yes, it states that in the introductory scrolling titles.
I like the guitar intro. Who did that?
That's a sound clip that came with Apple's iMovie app to use in movie projects. It seems to have been created by someone using the Apple Garage band app. That's all I know about it.
Well Done.
Thank you!
the reds litle joe of Brazil are the most beautiful...
ua-cam.com/video/wQBYMZLxS9A/v-deo.html
I noticed they stop blowing their horn a few feet before they get to the crossing. They're supposed to stop blowing the horn when I get to the crossing
That's on me. Those films were silent. I added sound clips and tried to match with the film. Didn't always get it right. Sorry about that.
@@LeeWitten oh that's cool still a great video
@@LeeWitten Little Joe has my favorite horn, the Wabco E2 horn. I'm sure they'll never bring that horn back. I used to hear that horn on the Seaboard Coastline back in the 70s
@@chrishinnant3924 Yes, its the actual images of the trains from that era that's important. I could have just uploaded silent films but that's not as watchable as having some sound with it. Thanks for your comments. At least I know someone is watching these. ha Ha!
@@chrishinnant3924 I'm mostly familiar with western railroads. My dad was a UP conductor from 1938 to 1974. I really like the Little Joe. Wish I had seen it in person.
I’m surprised that those trains stayed on those horrible tracks!!
A railroad whose corporate management deliberately drove it into the ground so they could collect their ‘Golden parachutes.’
Don't forget the forests owned owned by the Milwaukee's land company.
I wish the sound was real
0:53 your life is cursed if you like that loco
👍
Look at the cars behind EF-3 in 3:57
Rocking down the road!!!
Think how much oil we couldve saved if the electrification had been maintained.
Only if the amount of oil needed to generate the electricity was less that running the train. But with Solar or wind, maybe it could be made more beneficial.
for what may be 6 trains a day
My dad worked and was killed by Milwaukee road. Was killed in the job.
Well, bless your heart, that must have been bitter-sweet seeing the video. My father died three months from retiring from Union Pacific but it was while he was on a golf course and not at work.
I am sorry for your loss. A great railroader is a true friend to work with. His death hurts many of us.
Is there a reason why the Milwaukee Road mostly used sd45s as mid-train slave units?
MILW purchased the SD45s in 1968 for Master-slave sets specifically for use on the PCE. #4000-4005 (re #6-11) were masters, #4006-4009 (re #12-15) were slaves. Later (1973) MILW added SD40-2 Master-slave sets, #16-20 masters, #21-29 slaves. Other folks can add in of course if corrections needed.
SOME OF THE MID TRAIN UNITS WERE GOING DEAD IN TRAIN BECAUSE OF MECHANICAL PROBLEMS (D.I.T.)
SOME RRS RAN DITS A FEW CARS BACK IN THE TRAIN, OTHERS WOULD RIUN DITS AT REAR OF THE LOCOMOTIVE CONSISTS!
wowee
If I'm not mistaken, graffitti became a costly nightmare for the RR's in the mid-to-late 80's -when drug gangs and their fans started using rail cars to practice their "art." I fondly remember the MILW crossing the Cascade Mountains with long trains consisting of the then fairly new idea of COFC and TOFC flatcars, auto-racks, and specialized commodity cars. Now, it's mostly all gone. True, deferred maintenance to make the railroad look "profitable" on paper for a potential buyer ruined the MILW. But the MILW wasn't the only line that did that. Competitors CNW and Rock Island did the same. Bad management and lack of foresight came in to play. The 70's were a tough time for the railroads. At least the MILW always looked great and was in many ways as much a Pacific Northwest road as the GN, NP, and SP&S!
How did such a Great Railroad just Vanish? W.T.F.?
Excellent video. Too bad Milwaukee Road went bankrupt
+Eric (ericondefense) thanks. It was a neat railroad. Loved the electrics.
Lee Witten that ELS line that i catch trains on used to be a Milwaukee Road line
I hate it that the Milwaukee road little joe is leading the sd40-2’s
Made it easy to cut them in and out.
Looks like some healthy freight train lengths especially at the time. Hard to believe the MILW western operations went so bust.
they were short freights. bn up were runing much longer and heavyer trains
@@dknowles60 I beg to differ there or at least to know the information of details you might have. I'm all ears.
@@tarmac2001 cold hard fact. it you know any thing about rail roading. if you have steep grades you cant run heavy trains milw had a lot of 2.5% grades. Bn and Up did not. Bn and UP had a lot of CTC and long passing sidings . The MILW did not. over Apx 800 miles BN only change crews 4 times. to do the same Distance MILW change crews 8 times
@@dknowles60 Those are some hard disadvantages I see. I didn't know there were that many grades that steep. I heard there was also a lot of deferred maintenance and investment cutting to lean up in hopes of attracting a buyer
@@tarmac2001 John Kenefick Up rr CeO Almost brought the MILW in the end. by then the track was in to poor shape and would have costed to much money to fix up even for the rich UP rr
Such a Sad Shame!
For a Class 1 railroad, the track looks horrible, lots of vegetation, lots of mud holes..
All the customers & Especially the Employees of the Milwaukee road. Should've had a class action suit against the company and surface transportation board . An independent investigation into the books and the intentional sabotage of the Milwaukee should've been done . There would've been alot of assholes going to prison. The Bn probably would have had there asses sued as well .
why for doing a better job
@@dknowles60 I guess you didn't know that they sent at least 1 manager to the Milwaukee road to work. In a high up position. Then he returned to the B.N . For a short time. To download his information. Only to return to the Milwaukee for the final Sabotage of the railroad. Making crucial decisions that crippled it. Quinn was. His name and he was a B.N implant.
@@bradhardy2629 how young are you. Bn did not waste much time on the Milwaukee. they had a way biger problem. the Power river coal boom they had to rebuild a lot of their rail road for coal traffic
@@dknowles60 clueless aren't you . I lived it asshole . watched many good families lose everything when the lines rolled themselves up and disappeared . thanks to the B.N
what customers ? what Shipers?
Even if the MILW had survived, by 2017 it'd be the same generic thing as everywhere else: ugly-looking Darth Vader-like wide cabs coming at you and caboose-less trains. I long for the days of varied road motive power, full crews, 25 to 30 Class I RR's, and freight cars sans that horrid grafiti (I'm totally for cutting off the hands of those caught in that act of vandalism)
2 men are full crews. the other 3 never did much of any thing