Debunking the Lies in the Tim Donaghy NBA Betting Scandal | The Bill Simmons Podcast
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- Опубліковано 24 вер 2022
- The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by author Sean Patrick Griffin to discuss the NBA betting scandal involving ex-referee Tim Donaghy.
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If Brett farve and Stan van gundy had a kid, it would grow up and look like this guest
😂😂😂
Unfortunately, the image of that hookup is now burned in my brain.
There's some Andy Reid in the as well
Steve Martin, anyone?
it's Craig Stadler's son, Walrus Jr.
The real story here is that up until he was caught, Donaghy had the reputation of being one of the better officials in the league. In other words, the officiating in the NBA was so bad and inconsistent, Donaghy's fixing of games went unnoticed for years and it only became an issue when the lines moved. Maybe if the league hadn't officiating debacles like the 2002 Kings Lakers series, it would have been much easier to spot.
You have to have a good record before you're allowed to handle the big business you know. Fact is, he must have built that rapport for years before finding the opportunity to take advantage. This isn't a smash and grab crime.
And his claims of betting since 2003 are again, HIS claims. It's not reality.
Typcal comment in a Bill Simmons pod clip comment section: Brilliance combined with an ability to articulate it to where it makes perfect sense.
Excellent contribution, your take is 100% bang on!
@@vincentoravec261 Agreed; great take.
The real story here is “only 2 years till she’s 18” Bill Simmons on 16 year old anna konacorva
Yes. The NBA under David Stern was basically the WWE. That's what I took out of this whole thing, not that Donaghy was a 'good guy' or whatever, but rather that he was representative of a deeper rot that the league was pretending (and still pretends) didn't exist in that era.
Way more of this kind of stuff, please. This is what I miss most from his Grantland podcasts, great expert guests who have all the knowledge about a topic. I checked out a few years ago when the pod became just him and his buddies (even though I do like House)
If you're not into week to week breakdowns then I guess you made a good choice. Really high quality insight from guys that do this professionally
I enjoy his podcast but JOCKO I can do without
Man I miss Grantland and longform articles
Jacko & Jocko are both the best
House is truly great
"Confirmation bias on steroids" When people really want to believe a story there is nothing you can do to stop them.
"When people really want to believe a story, there is nothing you can do to stop them." Great statement and fits very well for a lot of religions.
David Stern literally leaked the FBI investigation to everyone. This is after investigators and crime agents investigating a Gambino family said we think there’s over 10 refs that are doing things some worse than Tim Donaghy. And he was set to wear a wire and go in and exposed this Owes way worse than anything he was doing. Instead, David Stern leaked the investigation publicly to the New York Times so all rats all personnel. All people involved suddenly knew what was going on, so Dan took the fall. We still have an actual Gambino crime associate who was looking at 20+ years, he had all his charges dropped after he threatened the league and said I will bring 25 of your referees to the stand if you charge me and your whole league will fall down. So they dismissed his charges. This is reality. This is how things work a commissioner of a league like David Stern “finessing” a situation just like ex executives do just like people in relationships do. Bill Simmons is a pro left pro standard quota guy.
Nobody has to believe anything out of the ordinary or do any mental gymnastics. David Stern leaking an investigation into referee corruption is not hearsay or conspiracy. It just means weak minded people who cling to what they are told and give thumbs up to people who also go with the narrative are a savior for you.
David Stern was the master at things occurring under his tenure that looked suspicious but yet never being in a position that you could prove that it happened or that he was involved.
Like MJ desired to play minor league baseball instead of wasting 2 years in his prime
I started watching the NBA in the early 80's. All you had to do was open you eyes and pay attention. The Tim Donaghy stuff only confirmed what many fans already knew and suspected.
Stern was dirty to the core.
Stern was a mobster fasho
The NBA acts like they had a single corrupt ref, as if an honest ref wouldn’t immediately realize their peer making questionable calls. I wish we would’ve foundout what percentage of the league’s refs were associated with Tim’s actions.
Ya, subjective, human, fixed. Whatever you wanna call it. The NBA is like Santa Claus. Keep believing and it seems real.
@@rickyl8111 Yeah I heard they had to film Jordan stealing the ball from Malone and nailing that game winner 8 times
@@michaelahurt You probly believe Michael left the NBA just cuz he really wanted to play baseball too
@@rickyl8111 you definitely believe Brady’s not the goat goat because of soft footballs and a missed fumble call (there’s 5 more rings on the resume in case you forgot)
@@baccaandthesquad17 He definitely fumbled and used soft balls. But my favorite Brady question is why are people focused on those things and not wanting to know what hes taking to be 45 and have the strongest arm of his career. I call schenaningans that's from avocado ice cream
this 30 min conversation is better than both the Netflix doc and most of the Whistleblower pod lol
Why because they say what you want to hear??. Lol if you don't think Tim was telling the truth you're a
Netflix docs are garbage
This is exactly the case. This cartoon clown of a half naked child as an avatar doesn’t like reality being challenging or rigged. David Stern literally leaked the internal federal investigation that was happening for all referees deliberately that’s not here. Say that’s not a matter of opinion, that’s not a conspiracy, that has nothing to do with building seven. The facts are the commissioner leaked the investigation and the Gambino mob associate says there were almost all referees involved doing things worse than Dan. Just look at the facts and it’s too much for OP. that’s why Bill Simmons left. His podcast is better For him just leave him alone
There's no better tool to spread misinformation than a netflix documentary.
Which other ones?
💯
Seriously people are idiots
@@tigre2154 that is some weak attention to detail
And an FBI investigation
Just ordered Sean Patrick Griffin's book after watching this! Awesome segment, it is disappointing that the Netflix doc/show is so flawed.
It’s not just Netflix, it’s a lot of movies to be honest. It’s called propaganda for a reason.
@@lacydoe lol propaganda for what purpose
@@nirdbird2123 they don’t tell the full story and try to paint something or someone in a better or worse light. That’s meant to sway the viewers.
@@lacydoe lol to sway the for what purpose? You act like its in the corporate elites prerogative to have people think a sports league is built upon lies and bet rigging? What does that gain Netflix lmao or any of these other documentary producers
Sacrament Kings actual 2002 NBA Champions
Absolutely!! I stopped watching the NBA for years after the Kings were cheated out of the WCF win!! Those games were rigged for the Lakers to win and I believe that David Stern ordered it to happen. If the Kings had won, the WCF, they would have won the championship!! I wonder how Chris Webber and the rest of the Kings felt when they found out about the rigged games??
Robbed my Kings of a chip. That 2002 series was the worst reffed series of my lifetime.
Exactly. The greatest tragedy in sports. I quit watching NBA for 15 years after that!
It was the only series that resulted in federal grand jury indictment trial. Whenever people whine about bad calls in a game I tell them about this. “Call me when after the series the NBA is investigated and it leads to a federal grand jury indictment trial or I don’t want to hear it”.
Thank you for sharing, Bill. Would love to hear more stories and guests like this!
The Mavs Heat 2006 Finals was despicable. That shit was absolutely rigged.
Heat in 6 baby, stay maf
@@Pacoag idk about rigged but wade went off. Also wade was clutch always had been. The year before he hit three game winners in the playoffs in a series loss. That was less rigged and more giving wade the jordan treatment
Not rigged; Wade was a rising star who was historically great at getting to the rack and drawing fouls and who revievex star treatment like many before and after him.
Dirk set the record for most free throws on a playoff run that year. A jump shooter. But Mavs fans had no issue with that
@@j-short5431 2006 Dirk was not just a jump shooter. And no one who watched that series but a Heat fan would not admit it was totally obvious the officiating in that series changed after the Mavericks went up 2-0.
Scott Foster still being an NBA ref proves that he has dirt on the NBA and that the NBA (at least in the Stern years, if not now) fixes series.
Sacramento Kings Actual 2002 NBA Champions
That game was SOOOO rigged it's unreal!! Sacramento should have won that series, no ifs, and or buts!! Chris Webber and the Sacramento Kings were robbed of a championship!! I didn't watch the NBA for several years after that!!
@@rucianapollard4057Absolutely. It wasn’t just game 6. It was thru out the series. I quit watching NBA for 15 years after that series. It was so obvious. Even the announcers said it numerous times. And it resulted in a federal grand jury indictment trial for game fixing by the league.
Yall delusional. Go Lakers
The way bill feels about the doc spinning things makes me think of how he did the same with the Andre the giant doc lol
They did the same with the woodstock 99 docu and gods know with how many more
All professional referees and umpires are suspect as hell
Back in the 80's the timekeeper for Piston's home games was fired because 19 of 20 games hit the over. Basketball has been corrupt for a long time.
100% I know for a fact that the NBA head of officials tells referees to fix games, or at least they did so in the 1990s / early 2000s. I'm close with a person who knew and went to college with Rod Thorn; he was his dorm roommate. Thorn admitted to the league telling him (when he was head of officials) who they needed to win. There are so many blatant calls / no calls in the NBA. The NBA is so corrupt! I don't know if it's just easier for them to get away with it because the officiating is so subjective...
The time went over?
@@DaRealSonicRight? What does that mean?
I get the feeling Bill doesn’t like Donaghy
Because Donaghy is a lying, self-serving P.O.S.
In the documentary, all he did was spew complete bs
@@christianbraun8290 - Yeah, he just wants attention and sympathy. He basically took *NO* accountability in that Netflix documentary.
I wonder if Bill's dislike translates to his mispronunciation of his name. The 'g' isn't silent.
@@mrmacross - Most people mispronounce it. 🤷🏻♂️
That 76ers/Bucks and of course Kings/Lakers series infuriated me. I knew something was just not right and it made me not want to watch the NBA anymore. The Bucks and Kings were absolutely hosed.
The queens choked
@@bigboner23 We get it, troll.
Heat/ Mavs 06
the suns in 07 too. Tim admited that
Cavs in 2016. Lebron called the league hours after the game and got green suspended. Then the officiating was horrible games 5 and 6 especially. Also not the first time officials helped Lebron win 2012 okc finals was a complete sham. If you want two recent exapmples. Sun clippers when suns made finals was also suspicious.
Best content Simmons has put out in a long time. Really great stuff.
Agreed, but to be fair that’s not very hard in recent years😅😂🤣
The 2006 Heat championship is tainted by the horrible refereeing. People like Bill know that that series was fixed.
“People like Bill” you mean Heat haters lol
@@Pacoag people with genuine knowledge
@@Pacoag Wade still hasn't been fouled
Bro,that series was 100% rigged and even Heat fans know it,they just won't say because y'all won the chip. Just like any other team would have.
Wade was averaging 16 FT's per game.. For a 6 game series, in the NBA finals. There was one play in particular where he committed a back court violation, traveled, and got a phantom and 1 call all on the same play.
I understand refs can have bad calls, stretches of a game, maybe even a bad game.. But to sit here and say it wasn't at the very least suspicious. Smh whatever
Wait a minute, Bill Simmons is accusing Netflix of making a documentary with bad research and inaccuracies and passing it as facts? The same guy that produced The Andre The Giant crapfest?
The strangest part for me with the Doc was that dude saying he ate the bird shit
Lol what?
@@denistuohy2535 Yeh i know. Watch and see
the way he said it made me question life. a grown man proud of eating bird poop😂
He ate Larry Legends shit?
That's the only part I've talked about with anyone 😂 dude really said "I've always been different. I knew from a young age. When I was 8 I watched a bird shit on a fence. And I wanted to taste it. I knew it was wrong. But something about doing something people said was wrong. It was euphoric. I was literally high"
Like seriously wtf? This guy is a serial killer that's too weak to kill 😂🤣😂🤣😂
Noone else in history saw a bird poop and got off on the idea of eating it. And then describes it like doing ecstasy the first time 😂🤣😂🤣😂
fascinating stuff! great work Bill
I’m curious why the 2000 WCF isn’t ever brought up as being rigged, just looking at it the officiating always seemed a lot more sketchy than other series’s that people claim are rigged.
Do you mean 2000 Blazers - Lakers or 2002 Kings - Lakers? 🤔
@@johnbrowntheprophet lakers Blazers
Donahue already came out and said the blazers were targeted for quick fouls as directed by the league itself.
Foh with that horseshit
@@brianlara6451 It was very clear the directive was to get Sabonis in foul trouble
Best insight on this controversy ever great video bill!!
Great interview
Donaghy's allegation that the league wanted to influence or sway games in a certain direction was interesting . If the NBA specifically tells the referees before a game that they should be aware of a player committing a certain violation , etc. , that sounds like they could be trying to influence the calls and game.
“Bron drops his shoulder and initiates contacts call it early and keep him from going downhill all game.”
The literal purpose of officiating is to control the game. If a player is traveling and it isn’t being called, the NBA should tell refs to look out for it, there is nothing wrong with that.
Big difference between trying to officiate the game according to the rules and intentionally manipulating the outcome in an unfair way.
@@AlexHendershot Yeah , but when did they decide to issue those statements to the referees ?
@@exitscreaming4637 they have been consistently throughout the regular and post seasons for decades.
@@AlexHendershot Right before a crucial playoff game ?
Giving the people what they want. Thanks Bill! The NBA is fishy and now that gambling is booming this could easily still be happening in more subtle ways.
I'd bet on it!
EDIT: And salutations, fellow Leo
🤝
YEAH ITS CALLED MAGNETS IN THE BASKETBALL AND RIMS * WINK WINK THE KAWHI SHOT TO BEAT PHILLY IN 2019 PLAYOFFS*
@ds once you learn gematria ( like a=1,b=2,c=3,so forth), it all makes sense; it was the 72nd NBA season and the raptors 24th season as a franchise and Toronto=72 while Canada=24,it was the raptors year AS A FRANCHISE to win it all and Kawhi was the chosen star to go there to help it come to fruition( and promptly leave right after!)
@@supasmits get some help.
@@supasmitsbro there's not fricken magnets. I've watched the videos. I was suspicious. Theres no magnets though
really appreciate this, I also felt that strong reaction to seeing donaghy doing the press tour being given a stage to just say whatever he wanted unchecked and being treated as credible.
If you think a ref who is a normal person like you won’t be tempted to make an easy 5 figures on a game you’re super naive.
@@JayyJay92 What? I believe wholeheartedly donaghy sought that easy pay day. The part I dont believe is when he tries to bring other refs into his web of crap based on vague ref meetings where they were told to look out more for certain calls. Hes just trying to make himself look like less of a scumbag.
@@Chaelsonen you think he’s the only ref in the league or history of the league to cheat?!?!? 😂 the nba has got you right where they want you.
@@JayyJay92 No I dont think that either. But the idea that everyone else was in on it and only he got caught, is just a guilty person trying to make himself look better. He couldnt prove nothing.
Like the old saying, "There's one sides truth and there's the other sides truth, and there's THE truth." I like the NBA but over the last 20 + years there have been games where you're thinking to yourself, "This doesn't feel normal."
I’m certain that Tim wasn’t and isn’t the only ref in all sports fixing games, or at least trying to 😂
Best content I've seen on the channel in a while
31:30
Just another reason Nash and those suns were literally the most unlucky team of all time. Injuries. Suspension. Crooked refs...
Insane.
I haven't been listening to Bill in a while but this was great! Even when I was watching the doc I was like 'Wait a minute...' lol
to think nba referees don't treat "stars" different than "role players" is ridiculous. As such, games are influenced.
The NBA's fixed more games to create a story line than the WWE.
If Donaghy is lying in the documentary, could the NBA sue Donaghy (or the tv show that he was on) for damages? I'm not a lawyer...
First of all, the NBA doesn't want to. They want this to either die or get whitewashed. Second of all, it all depends on what the specific lies are, who they negatively effect, what they allege etc. No one is going to get sued, people will take the doc as truth now, and that's exactly what the NBA, Donaghy, and refs in general all want.
The NBA wants this story buried under ground, never to see the light of day ever again.
They'd have to prove that they (the NBA) didn't do anything that was suggested in the documentary, which is obviously difficult when most people believe Stern was corrupt
The nba would never sue. Because that would put them in danger of discovery. They do not want this opened up to the public.
Suing for what exactly? Suing for slander and defamation is one of the hardest cases in the world to win you not only have to prove that what they said is a stonecold lie you also have to unequivocally prove that specific lie did a substantial and identifiable amount of damage you can recoup.
Streisand effect also comes into account when trying to silence someone. First amendment matters in the US. There are five things you have to prove to overcome the first amendment and none of them are easy.
The cold hard truth is the NBA was going bankrupt in the 70's and early 80's. The only NBA games on TV were the NBA finals. So there was almost no TV money for professional basketball. The financial cure for that was to make sure that home teams and popular teams won most of their games because that ensures good ticket sales. It was a common and correct belief back then that the NBA was fixed to favor home teams and that was such a pervasive belief that a majority of sports fans believed the college game to be a superior product to the NBA. That culture of manipulating games lived on and still lives to this day. That is why Donaghy and likely other officials were betting on games. They were already manipulating outcomes so why not bet too?
The officials made sure the Bulls beat Portland in the 1992 finals. The officials made sure the Lakers beat Portland in the 2000 western conference finals and we all know about the infamous 2002 western conference finals. Manipulating games was a long held tradition for NBA officials.
I didn't watch NBA games for several years after the 2002 WCF, because the officiating in those games was absolutely 💩!! I wonder how Chris Webber and the rest of the Kings feel, knowing that they would have won the series and possibly the championship if not for those rigged games?!!?
NBA immediately goes in the toilet when there's parity and unpopular teams with an actual team and not a diva or three leading it every single time. It's fans are not invested in local teams like the other 3 big leagues and more personalities and top contenders. bad NBA teams routinely get outwatched by their nhl city counterpart. if the NBA had a decade of suns-bucks like NBA finals it'd kill them. that's exactly what happened in the 70s and no one cared until the Celtics and/or Lakers were in every single finals in the 80s
You’re from Portland aren’t you? Lol
perfect clip,I was very informed by this
Bill didn't wanna talk about it cause hes in on it 😂
These guys are apologists for the NBA
Simmons used to report on how to bet on NBA, based on referees, what teams were playing and context (ex., playoff game). He described the rigging, including the indicators that refs were against a certain team (cheap fouls at end of games). The articles could be pulled from Grantland. He is protecting the brand and Stern, with whom he had a connection. Nobody is saying Tim D is not a dirt bag, but so is Stern.
I think you are really on point here. Because I’m halfway thru the video and they are not going in on the NBA itself AT ALL. Def “protecting the brand” it would seem. This author too, how can he not put 2 and 2 together here?
BS! Author just said “there is no evidence the league is dictating outcomes of games”!!!?!?!? PLEASE!
@@ryanolah1662 Simmons has brought attention to Stern's *possible* involvement in rigging games before. He has mentioned Iverson's 2001 ECF matchup against Ray and the infamous 2002 LA v SAC series. Also how the league ensures that big market franchises stay relevant and are pushed into a title run. I feel like they were focusing on Donaghy specifically on this pod.
Yeah this pod felt like he was protecting the leauge and stern by discrediting Donaghy as a liar and trying to invalidate everything he’s said, like how Stern did. I bet Bill was singing a different tune back in 2007 when the story broke. Bill isn’t just some quirky blogger with no filter anymore, he’s a mogul with heavy ties to legacy media outlets and nba “insiders” with vested interest in protecting the product and integrity of the nba
@@naiemwoolfork1250 I still follow Simmons and like some products (The Rewatchables), but he went from challenging the man to becoming the man and lost some of his edge and rebelliousness. Also, he was nearly cancelled by one of his employees, so he panders a little.
On his pod they joke and laugh about a ref they nicknamed "the extender" because no series ever ends when he's reffing.
He makes sure the team that's down in the series wins.
What amazes me is that Donaghy was willing to fix games for only $2,000 a pop when he could have requested so much more. The gamblers were literally raking in millions on each game. 🤷🏻♂️🙄🤦🏻♂️
...he was likely making way more.
@@ChauncyCharm - That’s not his story nor what the evidence showed. 🤷🏻♂️
He was getting $2K from his boys but he was also betting on his own - making $100s of thousands. And of course he isn't admitting that - for obvious reasons.
@@MichaelMurphy-kj3xf - Yeah, he was betting on games since at least 2002 or 2003. My guess is that he was betting on games during the late 1990’s with his buddies at the country club where he golfed several times each week. We know for sure that he was gambling during that time, though the ESPN article about his gambling exploits wasn’t specific about what he was gambling on.
NBA refs are all crooks, I hardly ever watch the NBA. Always get too mad at all the bad calls. Especially because it's always bad calls
Hopefully the Netflix special talks about Miami Heat beating Mavericks when the HEAT had Shaq on the team, that was the most rigged series I have ever seen in my life. I mean it Was so bad that it became laughable.
Yep, add one more nba championship to nowitzki and take one away from wade and shaq.
Crybabies
This segment was great
Bill and all these basketball writers had 20 years to bury this guy. But yall chose the "give Tim no publicity" strategy and it backfire. Being factual Doesn't matter in a world where being first matters. Tim was first and his version is gonna stick.
Great point
Except that his version wasn't first. There has been tons of reporting on this and a book. For a documentary to come out now, 20 years later, that presents his side of the story that is full of factual inaccuracies that are incredibly easy to identify (and were pointed out to the producers) is why he's pissed. I imagine Bill was more than willing to just let Donaghy fade away from memory, but when you see Netflix put out a poorly researched documentary on the subject, he responded.
Bill Simmons if you think Tim was the only person rigging NBA games your delusional. Your precious NBA has been rigged before Tim and it still is. Tim was just an easy fall guy. He was not the only ref doing this. Refs are still rigging games.
I remember a few years ago when a referee and his kids got caught wearing Boston Celtics jerseys and jackets!! How are you going to fairly officiate a game when you are clearly supporting a specific team?!?
Why does the guy on the right looks like an IG filter?
I thought I was the only one noticing it
Was Kings Lakers Conf finals fixed? I'm not conspiracy person but that series screamed fix.
Tim wasn't even the ref.
That horry 3 at the buzzer was fixed right, the kings choking in ot of game 7 was also fixed too right………
@@bigboner23 Samakis 3 at the end of the 2nd half should’ve never counted though
@@tomac100 imagine believing in something u saw on UA-cam alone 😆
this was awesome. i always knew donaghy was a skilled liar. my BS meter is fully calibrated but i was lacking all of the facts covered here, so i wasnt able to draw conclusions until now. The author is a great investigator
Lol you believe this guy over the FBI???
I love this channel.
Jermaine O'neals documercial about the malice at the palace was a classic of the genre.
You two sound like a couple people that have an interest in protecting the NBA if you ask me
The entire Association is corrupt.
I don't care what the truth is, as a Blazers fan, it's fun to say Steve Javie hated us. He ejected our color commentator in Indianapolis one time ffs! LOL
While I totally agree with the sentiment that Tim Donaghy as a narrator to his own crime doc is piss-poor film making -- what you did on the Woodstock '99 doc was absolute malpractice and should ban you from ever commenting on someone else's documentary ever again.
Why is that? 🤔🤷🏻♂️
i'm glad i clicked on this before the donaghy doc in my netflix queue.
I always knew something was very dirty about that Lakers vs Kings conference finals series. I grew up a Bulls fan, watching the one and only true GOAT dominate a league and going 6-0 in the finals, but I love the game and have always appreciated other great teams and players. The Bulls were done at that time, and I gravitate towards the Kings; I loved their style of play and Webber and the way they competed. Even as a teen, I could tell something was off and dirty, and it infuriated me how the Lakers moved on and the Kings got screwed. I had watched a ton of basketball at that point and had seen all kids of crap, and something just felt really bizarre while watching that series. No matter what anyone says, I know that that series was dirty 💯
Homie give it up. The Sacramento Queens had 3 chances to put the Lakers away. Choking in Game 1. The infamous Robert Horry GWS in Game 4. And the Kings missing like 14 free throws in Game 7 at home. Win any of those games and Kings advance and possibly beat the Nets. But you are all complaining about one game, where you know that the NBA won't let you win because a Game 7 will be the most epic thing ever. David Stern wasn't going to deny anyone a Game 7 after a competitive series like this.
As a Bull fan, how do you about MJ being allowed to get away with gambling by David Stern?
Yeah and the blazers lakers 2000. Lakers got 2 years of cheating benefits
@@rho008 and shaq going to the line 5999 ties and calling fouls on player within 5 ft. Anyway watching lebron bitch and bring the lakers down is fun to watch. Karma. Enjoy the bubble cup
Yea, the Bulls never got phantom calls. You’re a fool that should join Pippen’s son
Do Bill and this guy think that we're all morons? I don't know of anyone who watched that doc and was like, "Yup, he's telling the whole truth and that's all there is to it!".
Just like any other crime doc, you know that the culprit is going to be lying some to paint themselves in a better light. For me, the most notable things I got from the doc was his phone records with Scott Foster and how well the NBA was able to cover it up as a "one bad apple" deal.
There is absolutely no way that Donaghy was the only one fixing games, he was just the stupidest one at it (and imo the doc makes that pretty clear)
Yeah, I watched the doc, and I don't think it "sides" with Donaghy in any way. They do show that everyone has their side of the story. But you get to the ending, and it's clear that you can't really trust anything Donaghy says.
@@thedefinitionisthis Especially the ending, in which the interviewer literally tells Donaghy that he contradicted himself on lying about how much he made on fixing games.
I thought these 2 were just going to go more in depth in this video, but half of it is just them complaining about how the doc painted him as a good guy, which is not even remotely true.
@@ada443 Yeah, the ending is the real mic drop, because Donaghy is essentially caught contradicting himself, and tries to “correct” himself. It’s like: yeah, this dude can’t be trusted hahaha.
Thank you. Spot on
Yeah, I thought the documentary was very neutral especially since because Bautista, who contradicts Donaghy and obviously hates his guts, is featured just as much as Donaghy. Yes, the NBA come out looking like the main villain, covering up likely more corruption, but the ending also expose Donaghy for being able to lie with a straight face even when faced with evidence of his lie. If you weren't already questioning his story, you certain were by the end!
More stuff like this Simmons! Best thing you’ve done in years (granted that’s not saying much 😅😂🤣).
LJ 4 point play was one of the biggest BS calls ever against my Pacers in ECF which changed the whole series as we should of gone up 2-1! Kings Lakers WCF was a complete joke! Wade got more calls then I’ve ever seen before in an NBA Finals Games 3-6 when down 2-0😅
There’s too much money involved for there not to be corruption.
28:43
Well, you’re right, we don’t do that with OJ, but I can’t help but think 2 words here: Carl Malone
Yeah I agree, same as "The Last Dance", please call that out too.
Which story looks better fir the nba? Oddly enough, the one presented in the documentary….not all that surprising to me.
It's funny these two act like Stern killing the investigation into the league fixing outcomes isn't telling.
The NBA went out their way to get Iverson and the 76ers in the 2001 Finals
Was probably worse then 02 Kings Lakers
The Bucks would have given the Lakers a good series too.
I like the talk about Donaghy being a liar, and I have always believed that, but the leagues are absolutely, positively manipulating outcome for ratings. I did my own research, and was able to predict a fixed game literally BEFORE IT HAPPENED. I was able to prove it.
For certain, the NFL and NBA manipulate games. This is a fact.
If that’s true then we would’ve seen the Cavs vs Lakers in 09 finals
@@forzaacmilan36LeBron was already solidified. They made a new superstar w/ Dwight that year. D12 was MASSIVE until the Lakers fiasco
You have to be either lying or a fool if you dont think the NBA has rigged some games. It wasnt just donaghy making bad calls in that kings lakers game
It's not even outright fixing games but it's fairly obvious that what Donaghy said about the league pushing refs to keep stars in the game and let them get away with more has been going on for 40 years if not forever.
But even that Lakers-Kings game, I think people forget it was Kobe and Shaq vs a bunch of guys who were allergic to the paint. It was egregious and there were some legitimately bad calls, but idk, kinda hard to get fouled on a jumpshot
Question: What would exposing a rigged game from over 15 years ago do? The important part of any investigation now is eliminating intereference in current and future games from being rigged. Proving a game in the 90s or early 2000s was rigged doesn't fix anything. Damage is already been done, money has already changed hands, and we can't edit the results to say "This game's stats and results won't count as of x date". We just have to expell any current corruption from the reffing system.
He was the one who got sacrificed and blamed. He wasn't the only one, and for people to think punishing him fixed the problem and there are no more refs on the take is hilarious.
@@rickyl8111 We need to prevent future shady refs from ruining anymore games. Teams, players, and fans can't accept Donaghy getting the axe as a scapegoat to be enough.
@@michaelahurt exactly, everyone admits they give the stars extra foul calls and let them travel. That’s essentially fixing the games somewhat. Shouldnt The refs should be completely neutral
I always think it’s funny how somebody tries to tell somebody else how to tell they story 🤨
I used to patiently wait for Bill Simmons articles weekly. Didn't love when he left or his voice on podcasts, but he typically has a finger on the pulse of the NBA at all times. Typically.
How many other refs were involved? Everyone already knew that Sac town got robbed
I've been watching basketball since LITERALLY the mid-80s and I knew that many games that I watched while David Stern was commissioners were already predetermined! 🤨
No you didn't troll
@@nonamewillbegiven6847 Umm what?? I watch the Bad Boy Pistons play in person !
@@tennaj1367 I dealt with you before. You're a m0r0n
seemingly, the nba got off without a scratch, should have been more of a dive into them. it seemed to me every person in the film were lieing, all sleezebags. who believes anything the FBI does?
I really appreciate you posting this and having him as a guest. I have watched most of this series on Netflix and was excited to see this story being teased. Since I’ve heard the correct story and your views on it before I would have hated the Netflix version once I realized it is hot garbage.
When I saw there was a donaghy doc on there, I was excited to see how they'd covered it. They had done a good job with the Manti, Malace, and one of the other Untolds. Then I watched the trailer...
My lord. Looked like such a waste. Maybe good for Joe Non Sports Fan, maybe...
But for anyone who followed the Donaghy stuff at all, it looked like such slop.
I actually think the Whistleblower podcast did a good job adding more layers to the Donaghy thing. Not just focusing on Donaghy as a subject along with his co-conspirators but other investigators who have looked into the relation of the betting circles then at the local gang level. As well with how the NBA has moved after this event and how they got past the hearing unscathed. NBA has relations with folks in the government. As well with putting former refs in 'places of authority' like the central replay HQ to add validity to the reffing, regardless of how shit it can be.
2002 WCF is why I don't watch the NBA anymore. To continue to support that product is the equivalent of staying with a partner who cheated on you
David Stern was def dodgy and there were plenty of other dodgy refs in the NBA.
Am I the only one who’s noticing how DEEP this guest’s eye sockets are? That man’s eyes so far back there I can barely see them
Man I’m watching this at midnight and now his eyes are freaking me out 😅
@@rollingcourage6658 same😭
Do these gentlemen discuss about whether or not NBA influence games outcome for profits?
Yeah, you're protecting your cash cow Billy. Sad. We know its rigged.
Thanks, Bill. Awesome.
Amazing
Protect the Shield at ALL costs
The cav warriors finals series is even more proof how the game is still rigged
What about refs having bets about giving technicals to Rasheed Wallace?Donagy admitted that on podcast to Bonzi Wells and Wallace himself
lol the nba media and fanboys trying to protect the Sanctity of their corrupt league: 06 finals, 84 draft, gifting nba finals to stars and big teams.
Found Donaghy’s burner
@@kx5517 found the small brained fan boy, these leagues only care about profit, not about having a fair game
@@blblbluh4196 LMAO. Nothing undermines a sport's "profit" more than its fanbase doubting the legitimacy of the outcome. But yes, continue calling other people small brained. Conspiracy theorists are all the same.
I think you mean the 1985 NBA Draft when the Knicks landed Patrick Ewing. 🤷🏻♂️
@@kx5517 fans are too emotionally invested to see it clearly, they’ll be in denial and make excuses like the refs made a bad call, or just the league made a mistake
I liked the whistle blower podcast, the guy did a lot of good research and was honest about how he felt about Tim's lying. Don't know why Simmons felt the need to crap on a good podcast?! Probably didn't even listen to it.
Despite the fact that Donaghy is a horrible douchebag, Bill Simmons has changed into someone who believes he has special powers of discernment on everything sports, and that Boston sports teams, racist or not, are annointed by God to represent everything good and fair. Bill is a gambler and a homer more than a commentator. His metastisizing influence borders on bullying, which he uses to avoid doing the research he used to. At this point, it's difficult to separate his ambition from his opinion. Just listen with that in mind.
Watched the documentary and thought he was guilty the whole time. Easy to tell he was lying through his teeth. Especially the end, where he basically accidentally admitted to earning more than $30k
Ironic isn’t it
Dictating the outcome is even worse than fixing games though! Sean brushes off like it's a misdemeanor.
And the show didn't portray Tim as someone to be trusted nor did it make him out be some innocent party who was forced into this crime.
Every time Tim made case for something they followed it up with counter claims from Batista's (far end) or Tommy (neutral).
Microanalyzing details while stating obvious ie one ref who everyone already knows is very untrustworthy is what I got out of this video.
If you guys know so much discuss more on what the show hints at ie what people are still very suspicious of like,
- why despite "52 of the 60 refs questioned admitted to gambling in some form" whom all broke the NBA guideline wasn't looked at more thoroughly.
- more about the calls with Scott Foster who still has job officiating despite such close relationship with Tim.
- how quickly news leaked after the meeting with David Stern as they were about the go undercover
People also need to realize the Netflix docs are not being put out solely for entertainment, but because they are cheap to make as well.
This was very close to being a good interview. Instead it’s more protection of the sacred NBA. Lame af.
“No evidence nba dictated outcome of games.” ALL CREDIBILITY LOST!
Scott foster is the worst
Sean Patrick Griffin looks like the Bounty Hunters aliens from the X-Files.
I find it highly suspect that this stuff only has happened with donughy
I believe that Donaghy wouldn’t have to fix calls, just based on his knowledge of the beefs between refs, owners…league dictates- large market favoritism. That said I also believe that Donaghy could always tip the scales to hit his bets.
That dudes camera angle is amazing
Fixing games by calling correct infractions that are almost always ignored (like palming the ball). Brilliant.
Imagine trying to believe you could have gotten away with this kind of shit
**2007 NBA Champion Phoenix Suns
**2002 NBA Champion Sacramento Kings
… Bill, watch the actual documentary. The film is actually told through the lens of all three “players” involved, including Donahue. With all differing stories and POV’s by the end of it. Other two guys say Donahue is lying. That’s in the doc. It didn’t actually paint his word as factual because it included the other two POV’s. Don’t think most folks believe he was forced based on how the doc ended.
He did watch it. The issue he has is that the documentary let Donaghy give his "side" of the story despite the readily available, documented evidence that he is lying. There is no obligation to give Donaghy equal time when he's making everything up to make himself look good, especially when the producers spoke to a number of people who told them he was lying.
I watched that doc, and it did not pass the sniff test. That being said, why don't Bill and Sean Patrick Griffin create a documentary?