Buffy | Reaction | 6x19 | Seeing Red | We Watch Whedon
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
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Some relationships are doing well, other relationships... not so much. Mackenzie and Kyle watch on!
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#wewatch #buffythevampireslayer #reactions - Розваги
There are two lines I consider the saddest in all of BtVS -
"Mommy?"
and
"Your shirt."
Spoiler
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.
.
.
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What about "...And she shall look on him with forgivness. And everybody will forgive and love. And he would be loved. But everything is OK, right? Can we rest now? Buffy... can we rest?"
Everytime gets me when music starts in that scene... T____T
@@nansyraccoon7095 oh god, yes. Top 3 saddest for me
@@chanceneck8072 Pretty powerfull!
No spoiler, since it has just passed but
"Wesley...why can't i stay?'
"Would you like me to lie to you now?"
This episode is why this is the darkest season of Buffy.
I would probably argue that “Dead Things” is the darkest episode of Season 6 ... this one is the most tragic one.
Hardest scene for James Marsters... And Amber and Sarah cried after the episode shoted
Yes, James has said a number of times in various interviews and panels that it drove him to therapy. The story goes he remembered curling up in a ball and thinking if he hit his head on the floor hard enough he could just go away from it all. It was a seriously awful time for him.
@@afry6400Yes... James is the reason why I can somehow admire Spike even though he did this awful thing that horrible Whedon and his team wrote!
This is one of those episodes that fans all dread coming and everyone cries. It's part of your Buffy Rites of Passage.
Everytime new youtubers react to"Buffy"1 of the 1st(if not *the* 1st)things every veteran thinks is:"I can't wait to see them react to"Seeing Red"!"
Poor Kyle you can see the discomfort he's feeling in the first 30 seconds
You can see Kyle’s expression of dread throughout the beginning of the bathroom scene. Constantly looking off to the side with a somber expression
yeah he was trying to see if she felt uncomfortable enough to look away as I always do with that scene (volume down as well ugh 😖)
Kyle skipping all intro was the most relatable thing ever.
This is like Joyce in season 5, even when you rewatch and know it's coming, it happens way too quickly. Devastating.
Watching it for the first time in entirety, I still couldn't believe it happened so suddenly. I kind of assumed Warren had been following her down street with his new powers and firing off multiple shoots. That this was the first killing on this show by a villain with no supernatural or sci-fi abilities made it all the more shocking.
The difference is that they gave enough time to truly mourn Joyce.
Whedon doesn't go for the kill. He goes for the hurt. Then he goes for the kill.
It’s what Shakespeare would do today...
"TO THE PAIN" as Westley once said
D’Hoffryn = Joss Whedon 👹
One of the very few times in the show Dawn is happy and chipper. I'd say we've never seen her so excited. Poor girl
Why should Dawn get treated any better than the fanbase?
@@Philbert-s2c big oofs right there
The parts that Kyle couldn’t even watch he was just looking away. This episode is hard.
8:04 James put in his contract that he does not have to do this type of scene ever again. Nearly broke him as an Actor.
I have heard James Marsters has a mandatory clause in his contracts going forward that he refuses to do anything involving Sexual Assault because of this episode, I don't blame him.
Filming this episode sent him to therapy
@@TabbyeLynne Watching him talk about this scene is heartbreaking. You can tell it really affected him.
James has mentioned in interviews that he started going to a therapist after production of this episode wrapped. Sarah has said that she and Freddie Prinze Jr won't let their kids watch it until they turn 18.
Also, since Buffy, Amber Benson has been writing YA fantasy novels. The first, Death's Daughter, is well written and intriguing. Even if you don't usually care for YA books, it may be worth giving hers a look.
Had to totally avoid any spoilers on this one. But obviously, those of us who watch have been anticipating this reaction. Thanks you two.
Warren... I never wanted a villian of this show die so freaking much.. and slow. And very very painfully.
...
ME: Seeing notification // YAY
Me, seeing title: Oh, no! Here we go, kids!
Seeing Kyle avoid the episode at certain points says it all. Silence speaks. The episode that changed _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ forever, and why we all say: NEVER BE HAPPY! Never be comfortable having happiness in an episode, because it WILL be taken away.
I’m in the minority that really likes this episode. I hate what happens in it but I love the episode. It’s real. It reminds us of some of the real evil things that happen in the world. Vampires and demons as metaphors for evil is one thing. Seeing the AR and the shooting of Tara are another. Those things really happen. And watching the characters react to those things are ways that real people actually react to them.
Regarding the AR, I think what makes it most uncomfortable is we largely see it from the attackers viewpoint. So if you immerse yourself in the show, the people watching are the attacker. It leaves a really unsettling feeling inside me. When I pull back from it I understand why Spike would do it. All of their encounters have been violent. Tearing down a house. Having sex on the balcony. All of those “fantasies” have been taboo. So from his standpoint, attacking her (in the moment) probably just felt familiar. He certainly realizes that it wasn’t the same when she kicks him off of her.
Regarding Tara, such a betrayal to fans to finally put her in the credits just to shoot her. I won’t comment on if she lives or dies but I will say that when I first saw it my gut said if two are shot they can’t both survive. And odds are buffys not going to die. Also there are red flags throughout the episode, willows too happy. If you’ve watched any whedonverse show, you know that if someone is really happy it’s about to all get ripped away. Taras response of “your shirt” hits so hard. Even in that last second she’s more worried about willow.
We’ve all been waiting for this reaction. Kyle you can clearly see how uncomfortable you were watching it by looking at your eyes.
the same
While I could have done without the AR, I agree given the nature of the relationship, Spike's mindset, Buffy's history of questionable consent it wasn't really out of character. It's telling that Buffy defines love as based on truth, while Spike can't distinguish is from unrestrained lust. Which as Buffy points out burns up into nothing quickly. For an immortal who sees evil as the ultimate freedom he can't see that. I also think he about as surprised by his unwillingness to keep fighter her as her won refusal to give in. It's not just that he think she's bound to be wild like him if just admit to wanting it. He can't caring about someone enough to restrain himself when doesn't. Like he's failed at being free. Sort of "Conscience Makes Cowards of us All." So it's not surprising he'd blame on the chip rather his own feeling for Buffy.
Agree with you about the red flags thought the episode.
The AR was particularly shocking to me because we've come to humanize Spike and this was a very rude awakening.
My view on the AR being in an episode completely depends on how it's handled. When it first happened I paused it because I was having trouble going on after seeing that. I was feeling dubious about where the show could go from there, I didn't want the show attempt to justify or reason Spike's actions; so often rape or assault is used as a shock factor, not as a real and super violent traumatic experience. But I liked how they approached it in the season after, not making excuses, no blaming the victim, making him repent and not forcing anything from the characters that would be inappropriate.
I should have known they would've thought about it - I don't think the show has ever done anything without the consequences being real.
I have luckily never been raped but my best friend has and she found the scene tough but also realistic. She loves the show, from beginning to end. She could not understand how anyone could call themselves Team Spike in Buffy's romantic affairs after that though and I have to agree.
I think its a strong episode, it's just a tough episode emotionally.
@littlemissmello
I’m so sorry what happened to your friend. No one deserves that. I’m a survivor of rape myself. As uncomfortable as this episode is I think it’s important. AR is no joking matter but I’m able to separate fantasy from reality. Spike was a soulless demon that went too far and he immediately realized he went too far. He then sought out his redemption and I think the show pulled it off quite well. I am absolutely team Spuffy because he’s a vampire that sought redemption. Very few sexual predators in real life attempt to seek redemption. I just thought I would try to give another perspective from another rape survivor.
No episode had I more eagerly anticipated and dreaded for Mackenzie than this one. Every time I saw her talking about the prospect of something happening to Tara and it could push Willow over the edge I could sense that awkward tension from Kyle.
What's practically eerie in hindsight was Tara's warning at the beginning of this season using magic to raise the dead could lead to a reckoning. Had Tara been doomed the moment Buffy rose from the grave?
Of course the ultimate irony is that is was coming back to Willow that put her back into the dangerous Scooby world in the first place. Even though they both know that actually repairing their relationship was going to take time and effort, the both wanted each other so badly. Strangely even knowing what was going to happen when I finally watch this episode in entirety, I got this eerie vibe from just gleefully perfect they seemed compared with how they been before. Yes that made the tragedy all the more painfully, but it did kinds of feel like those sweet, quiet bedroom scenes like they were on that last dance. There were more quiet our side the house to. Like the calm before the storm. At least that's what I got.
I'm constantly amazed at how forgiving Buffy is in regard to Xander.
Its understandable as he did save her life in season 1.
I read that James Marsters made the show runners promise never to make him do another scene like that ever again....And while I get why people hate it, it really had to happen to hit home for the audience that Spike is still dangerous and toxic.
It's in his contract now. Doing that scene messed him up, so he had to have therapy afterwards. James is a trooper, though. He really went all in to make that scene intense and frightening.
@@witchy.business Yeah while I can't see this particular assault scene felt all that gratuitous, there have been WAY too many cases of this happening. There were plenty of other ways they could have further his character arc or unshipping him from Buffy if it wasn't already obvious they weren't going to work.
On a similar note, Tara's death may have also severed a purpose for Willow's character arc. Without spoiling anything there were hints of what might happen even before Tara arrived. However there too something else could have send Willow down this path without having to write Tara out of the show. Plus, even if she had to die it certainly didn't need to be so graphic or sudden. Not saying that was too much for me, but it might have made it easier for some viewers.
@@witchy.business I agree. It's not a particularly 'in character" moment for a character who's raison d'etre has been taking care of damaged women, if toxically...cause backstory people. I do see how you can make the case that he did it out of sheer desperation and panic and okay, I suppose you can argue that point if.....you do it sensitively and skillfully-which was NOT done here. This is pretty much the scene that destroyed Marti Noxon's career at Mutant Enemy...
...and it should have.
I agree it had to happen. I was unfortunately in relationship that had a lot of similarities to the way spike behaved in a relationship. Similar ending. Makes it really hard to watch but the same time it makes perfect sense. Especially if you understand psychology.
@@Philbert-s2c that has always been my take, because i view the story through the characters. I saw that scene as a moment of pure, blind madness for Spike. He has Buffy defending him from anya and visibly upset with his sleeping with anya (and admitting hurt and jealousy at the wedding), dawn telling him he hurt buffy and how could he... he believes she has feelings for him and that keeping the secret was one of the biggest reasons she denies it and called things off. He goes to talk to her, thinking maybe somehow it all can be okay for them. He has had a century loving, care taking, doing what it takes for the woman he loves. He has shown many times he can do good. But in this scene, ergh. Its like he loses control, his demon and human sides collide for those few seconds and its like he cant see or hear buffy at all in that moment. The second he realises what he almost did he is clearly horrified... his actions cant be excused by any means, but I can see how his character got to this moment, why it happened how it happened, for both characters and their awful abusive back and forth up to this point. For me, its horrible for both characters and I wish the writers had thought of something else. The fact this ‘plot’ was taken from a real life thing one of the female writers did with her ex (if i have sex with him one more time he will remember he loves me and it will be okay... where her ex had to push her away...) makes it worse. They made buffy a victim when she didnt need to be.
Here we go... I can read this episode all over Kyle's face and I'm only 45 seconds in.
and again at 6:50
Everytime Kyle looks into the camera I feel that.
i know right... phew to be fair I held my hand before the screen at that bathroom scene to only see the reactions
It's tough seeing the episode again, and seeing you both react to it even more so.
Mackenzie nailing the analysis of the show as always though.
Also yay a bit of character growth for Xander, he's realizing why Buffy couldn't confide in him.
My reaction to this episode was very much the same as yours. This is the hardest episodes to rewatch for me. It still hurts sm.
"This is not a well-liked episode." True, but it is for sure a defining episode.
This is why the Trio are so good. The real danger of entitled misogyny in nerd culture. These people aren't 'supervillains', they're not monsters or demons or gods. They are everyday, normal people.
It's been 19 years. I'm still upset about this.
me too!!!!
Same! Dang it Whedon not every relationship ends in misery! This season for me took that from a breaking of a happily ever after cliche to making his own freaking cliche. At such a high cost too.
And Warren went from forgetable to most hated villain in 2 seconds...
Somebody chastised me recently for being a Spike fan while saying that Warren made my skin crawl. Seriously, if you can't tell the difference between the two of them at this point, we have nothing to say.
@@Philbert-s2c Biggest difference for me is one has a soul and one doesn't. One Is a cognizant monster the other is just a monster, by his own admission who doesn't really know better. I think people forget this and then decide it's the same or decide that Spike couldn't possibly do that. I'm still a fan of the character, I find him fascinating and I never forget what he is. Same time I feel really really bad for Buffy. We do sometimes get entangled with monsters when we're drowning.
@@barbarabaker1457 ITA. Spike is like the shark in "Jaws" if it fallen in love with Quint. He's not capable of understanding what he's doing is wrong, even if he comprehends that other people see it, hence the trying to curry favor by helping people in mid season five, not because it's the right thing to do, but because he knows Buffy would approve. Spike's a monster but whether he's an irredeemable one remains to be seen. I do hope I don't have to go the cliched route of pointing out the vast differences between unsouled Spike and unsouled Angel. That comparison has been done to death and Angel never wins it.
On the other hand, fuck Warren Meers. Disgusting little sociopath.
@@Philbert-s2c If it helps. That's about what I was trying to say. I was agreeing with you and am still a fan. I love the Mayor too. It's the complexity for me. And yes (squeaky) disgusting little warren.
@@barbarabaker1457 Oh Richard Wilkins was utterly charming and possibly my favorite "Big Bad' of the series but I never got the sense he was redeemable by the end of S3. Even his relationship with Faith, which obviously meant a great deal to her smacked of self-interest, and I think it was meant to show that the Buffy/Giles relationship was what unconditional father/daughter love was supposed to be. Spike at this point isn't a villain but he's not a "good guy" either.
I love Dawn shipping Willow and Tara. When you think about it they were really her moms when Buffy was dead.
So in terms of the Spike scene - it is shocking but I feel like because it was more violent people consider it irrideemable when Willow actually went through with raping Tara when she was under her spell. It was basically a date rape drug to make her compliant because prior to the forgetting spell Tara had said she wouldn't be with Willow while she was like this. Her condition for being together was that Willow be "clean" and Willow took away her memory of saying no and setting that boundary and then had sex with her. I think Tara mentions later it was such a violation especially after she knew how hard it was on Tara when Glory "mind raped" her. People are willing to forgive Willow for this when I feel like it's even worse/more confusing for Tara that her ability to consent/set boundaries to not consent was taken away in a so-called loving relationship. Spike relized right away after that he did something wrong. Willow didnt.
This is also where Warren crosses from being a wannabe supervillain to a common criminal. I mean, after all the freeze rays and tricks and circular saws, he is reduced to seeking petty vengeance by shooting the person he doesn't like. None of the comicbook style or substance he had early in the season - just plain ugly violence.
Turns out it was a tear from that episode after all, and we're all crying.
Girl, I hugged my phone so hard because I couldn’t hug you. Tara’s death hit us all by surprise and just as violently. In regards to Spike I won’t comment on why people may or may not still like him. In the end, that’s for each viewer to decide for their own reasons. I will say having rewatched this season several times in the last 6 months something that I only just realized is that every episode up to and including this one has been like a seesaw between Spike’s sweeter, more loving desires and his darker impulses. Man vs Monster and which side would win.
Great episode the last minutes are heartbreaking and the acting excellent by everyone. Epic finale
Best reaction ever... I am glad to see people react so emotionnaly to stuff that i used to react too in the same way...
Ouch!!!! 'He thinks he means more to this group than he actually does'. 😫
I clicked on this so fast. Kyle’s face knowing what’s gonna happen. It’s such a hard episode.
I feel so bad for Mackenzie. If it's any solace, this is how we all felt after the episode. I didnt watch the final ep of this season and contemplated all summer when it aired if I was going to watch anymore.
Oh my god, Mackenzie - !!!! My eyes are tearing up again right now as I type, just remembering your reaction - ! ...I dreaded the arrival of this episode (really, looking at it, it's hard to see how any of us forgave the series for what happened here, what they did, one episode after the end of Entropy). But, now - even knowing how great it can be to connect with a series or other work of fiction so strongly and deeply - I feel kind of guilty that we wanted you hooked into this series. Welcome to the brilliance and the awfulness. I'm sorry.
An immensely tragic aspect of Tara's death due to Warren's actions, goes back to season 5- I was made to love you 5x15. She *truly* felt sorry that he couldn't find love.
IIRC, UPN posted a viewer discretion warning at the start of this episode when it was originally broadcast.
Every time I looked at Kyle he'd look at the camera, like we were exchanging glances. It felt like we were three people in a room where two know a secret the third doesn't. That was dreadful.^^
Big hugs for Mackenzie. Let's all mourn for Tara together.
I still "like" the trio. Just shows a different kind of evil for a change. Warren is probably the 1st villain in Buffy I actually despised.
I mean, I don't like that Jonathan was a part of it, although on the other hand he was clearly not comfortable with it, helped Buffy in the end and all... but I still find it weird that Jonathan was willing to try his hands at bad stuff even for a short time...
But yeah, Warren is the worst! Well, him and Angelus (he also killed a beloved character). But Warren is for sure the absolulte worst!
@@ChevaliersEmeraude Warren was worse. He had a choice. The same can not be said for Angelus. Which is why I think that Angels actions in season 2 episode 10 of Angle is worse because he had a soul and chose evil.
@@cthulhucollector I kinda disagree with that assessment, the whole "Angel has no choice, Angelus is a different person". I feel like it's a claim that the show creators themselves disagree with. But it's hard to see it that way from an outside perspective
huge props to these two for going through watching that publicly. really tough episode
13:00 damn, you can see on his face that it's coming and he doesn't want it to.
Aww Mackenzie, we've all been there honey, you nearly made me cry.
I was alot like poor Kyle here, I couldn't watch the scene I was just watching Mackenzie.
Don’t think we’ve seen McKenzie cry like that since Faith’s breakdown in Five By Five. Big hugs
This episode is a study in small, mundane toxic issues spiraling out of control in the blink of an eye, if not addressed immediately, and while it is hard to watch, I applaud the show for going there.
The night Spike was turned into a Vampire REALLY messed with his head. He goes from heartbreak and rejection, to understanding and acceptance, to seduction to violent violation to death. Lust, violence and love bleed together for him, and without a soul, he doesn't know how to separate them. This obviously doesn't excuse what he does, but it makes for fascinating character motivation.
Angelus spent his time basking in sadism, while Spike was busy attempting to live out a trashy romance novel, but he can't tell the difference between 'the little death' and the big one.
By knowing what happens next I just can't wait for Mackenzie to see/react to the next episode (the following two episodes are among my 5 favourite episodes of the whole series). The only redeeming quality of this episode was when Dawn found out Willow and Tara were back together and got excited.
Dawn was the voice of the fandom come to life this episode and i love it
I remember watching this live and having to wait an entire fucking week for the next episode.
James Masters said the Attempted Rape was put in by Joss as he was frustrated with fans having sympathy for Spike and he wanted to remind the audience that Spike was evil
I feel like Joss really screwed up in that case. People felt sympathy for him, because the show gave him a bunch of sympathetic traits from season 5 until this episode. He was willing to be tortured and possibly killed by Glory in order to keep Dawn's secret, he didn't get mad when Tara almost set him on fire and he stayed and acted as Dawn's protector out of guilt after Buffy died. Sure he wasn't a completely different character, but he'd changed enough that of course people were going to sympathise with him. Plus he's always been kind of fun. If viewers rooting for him during this season wasn't intentional then Joss and the writers screwed up.
@@wendyheatherwood Whedon also said the fans rejected Riley because they didn't want Buffy to be happy, so he was very out of touch by that point
@@wendyheatherwood No. It was necesary to make them remember he is a demon. Become a Vampire is a CURSE and it was, to me, the only way to force him to get "you know what" after everything he said to Angel and his own ego...
@@wendyheatherwood I don't think he's screwed up at all, and I think he was absolutely right like he usually is. Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean he was wrong, and it doesn't really work that way either because he's the showrunner and Creator and writer, and the thing he keeps having to remind everyone is that it's his show and it doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with what happens, because ultimately it is he who gets the final say and that is how it should be.
More than anything else, Joss Whedon has repeatedly stressed and said that a showrunner cannot and must not let the fans dictate what happens, and the only thing that should ever take place is what the writers and showrunners want and what they've always intended. Sadly, there's been many times in his career when the Studio's he has worked for have demanded certain changes in certain characters doing certain things that he didn't want, which has led to a lot of animosity and a reputation for him being difficult that may have some merit in many instances but ultimately needs to be looked at fairly and judged objectively. James Marsters even reveals one of those frustrations in the now-infamous podcast he did which is always been taken out of context and never been fully talked about in which she reveals how Joss sort of but didn't really accosted him in a moment of anger after he had a lot of problems with the studio over the Spike character and the diverting directions between what he wanted and what they wanted. To be frankly honest, if it is true that Buffy and Spike getting together this season was only due to the studio wanting it, I think that turned out pretty go to the end, but it still doesn't take away from what Joss has always said about the writers needing to be able to be the only one who control the characters like so many other showrunners and writers get to do without any interference. I may not agree with every decision that Joss makes, but for everyone I disagree with in the way you are referring to, there are 10 more that I love more than any other in television or movie history.
@@zerogage877 He fired an actress for getting pregnant. He's not a hero
I've seen this show so many times and everytime I'm not ready for this episode. And oh my gosh when she started crying to Tera's death I ended up crying I felt that incredible reaction 👍
Such a dark and powerful episode that really epitomizes the polarizing nature of Season 6. Who'd have thought back in Season 1 that's we'd find our way to such a bleak, realistic and vicious place?This is why Buffy is one of the most wonderful and important television series' ever made.
Mackenzie's look today is amazingly awesome.
Regarding Xander: This character gets a lot of grief from people but, he's proven himself to be one of Buffy's most loyal friends.
Now let's watch the rest of S6. :(
The episode is successful in making you feel what they wanted you to feel. It's a hard watch though.
I do hate this episode, but the writing is excellent, the performances all around are top notch, and whether I like it or not, this is where the story was headed.
I had such a sick feeling in my stomach after watching the spike/buffy scene I had to shut my laptop
16:11 In defense of Spike, he resorted to what he knew worked. The relationship between Spike and Buffy is unhealthy. We all know that. Spike and Buffy used violence as foreplay (see Smashed). Here, Spike resorts to violence (foreplay) to make Buffy see she really does love him, but it doesn't work this time and Spike is a bit confused.
All these years later and I’m still so bitter. My first big experience with the bury your gays trope on a show I was watching live. Joss puts Amber in the opening credits for the first time in the episode he kills her off. And just from a ballistic standpoint, the bullet that kills her would have to pivot instead of going in a straight line.
He went full psycho because his own stupidity got his lackeys taken.
He went full psycho because he already was one.
Warren came out of the womb as a psycho.
I think you're way over estimating how much Warren cares about Andrew and Jonathon. They were a means to an end, hell he was prepared to toss Jonathon away as soon as he sensed he might be threat to him. I think it was more the getting beaten by a girl in front of the other two that sent him over the edge.
@@SweenyTodd98 hasn't that happened to him multiple times before?
@@christianschoff2490 Not to my memory. If she had caught up to him before this she would have already taken him down and sent him to jail. I think the only time was in Gone when they were invisible but 1. they were invisible and 2. she beat them all up not just Warren.
To be either a Spuffy or a W/T shipper was bad enough. To be both...sheer hell. This is probably the single most controversial episode in the entire Buffyverse.
Seriously, after this, death threats were the preferred method of communication between the shipper factions. People I had known for 2 years stopped talking to me after this...
Also, who can possibly hate Dawn after she essentially turns into MacKenzie when she finds out that Willow and Tara back together?
Oh yeah, and I forgot how much Xander sucks this season. Nice to see some things never change.
I have been waiting for this episode. As a Spike and Spuffy fan the bathroom scene is so hard to watch.
Poor Tara! Poor Mackenzie! ❤❤
You skipped the part where Amber benson was in the credits 🥺🥺🥺
I know, I was waiting for that scene
Thanks, now I'm crying at noon.....
After reading the comments I'm going light or I'll cry. 1:18 I love the scene It's like Dawn got her parents back together. That is all.
I already saw the title and before I clicked on the video, I needed like a couple of minutes to mentally prepare myself. I think I've been able to manage it more now like Kyle did but seeing Mackenzie's reaction over the Tara scene just triggered so many feels. 😫😫 But I like that Dawn excitement over the two getting back together. She's so smart, she needed no explanation lol
@@RitsychServare Yeah, what they said was so insightful I had to say more but I made it as cathartic as I could. I don't think you can be human and not get triggered by this. 🤗
Mackenzie I wish I could hug you after this awful episode. You made me cry even harder, and that's saying somethin.
I watched this when it first aired. It was one of the darkest things I'd ever watched, and the wait until the next episode was terrible. 16:26 That's an interesting take in regards to Xander's role in the Scoobies. It'll be even more interesting to see you watch how that plays out.
As many times as I've watched buffy, I think I've only watched this episode two or three times, its so hard to watch😭
Darla had guns
"Scarier" 😁👍
Ah the telltale mistake of loving a character.
If you wonder why anyone is still Team Spike you also have to look at Xander. The hyena episode. He was instantly forgiven. By Buffy, apparently by the writers, and by most of the audience. No atonement. Pretended he didnt remember it. Giles kept that secret too. Instead of asking forgiveness he asked her to the dance.
Oh yeah it was a soulless demon Xander, just like this is a soulless demon spike. It's basically saying a part of the brain wasn't intact when it happened and while you might lock that person up, it's kind of hard to judge somebody whose brain doesn't function properly. Feels discriminatory.
@@barbarabaker1457 I think its less the brain that isnt functioning and more that the moral compass isnt functioning. Every time Spike has had to make a moral decision wirhout a soul hes had to consciously decide to do the opposite of what his demon nature tells him to do. That takes a cool head. A drunk and emotional soulless demon is not one with a cool head.
@@roseclarity1493 Same deal. With the soul representing the conscience, and the regular comparisons to things like clockwork orange, the comparison to the part of the brain that many serial killers have as essentially dead zones, I think it fits well in the vocabulary of the Whedonverse.
Xander was possessed by a Hyena spirit that was controlling him. Why would he say sorry for the things he did that were outside of his control? Might as well claim Buffy should say sorry for the time she was possessed by James or the Scoobies should feel sorry for when they were possessed by the "Hitchhiker" demon in Afterlife. It's in no way the same as Spike/AR. Spike IS the demon.
@@jacksmith7185 he was getting pissy because she wouldnt go out with him just a little while later. He didnt seem to feel any remorse for it, just mild embarrassment. Whether he was contolled or not he remembered it. And it wasnt exactly a full possession either. That version of Xander still had elements of Xander. Xander was in there doing those things. Not like an entirely different entity took over or anything. Youd think hed feel a tiny bit bad but nope, he only feels embarrassed. Like the kind of embarrassment when you're seen in your underwear, or your deep dark secrets get revealed.
It's one thing to say this isn't a very liked episode for obvious reasons and content matter, but it is a pretty terrific episode and though it's maybe not one of the best of the entire series, I think it is definitely a highlight of season 6, and basically leads into the season end game which I think is the best of any Buffy season!
I love the jet pack scene, much needed comic relief. This episode is a doozy.
“That doesn’t make me feel good at all.” Same. Same.
This episode did a red wedding moment when the actual red wedding still only existed in book form.
The hardest episodes for me to personally watch in the BtVS universe are _Doublemeat Palace_ through _Entropy._ Oddly, this one is hard, but not in a "desire to skip" zone like the previously mentioned seven episodes.
While I hate Tara getting shot, from a story perspective it makes more sense than any of the other characters as she has been going against the grain of the theme of the season. Said theme being not growing up and the difficulties in growing up. Tara is the only character this season who has been adjusting to moving into adulthood. That is an opinion. Please don't flame me if you have a different opinion.
One thing I'll say about the "Game of Thrones" version of the Red Wedding....it was FAR more disturbing than in the book.
Holy heck i didn’t know this was here and I checked my notifications and ahhhhh so.... ahhhh
I think Spike and Buffy's sexual relationship had an undercurrent of BDSM. I think back to that scene when they were under the carpet and Spike asked her if she trusted him, holding a pair of handcuffs. She says no... but later when she meets with Tara, thinking she'd changed - she covers the bruises on her wrists.
In my opinion this is why, although I abhor what he did in this scene, there's a blurring of lines that had been a precedent in their relationship that helps me understand how it could've gotten that far. A slippery slope and all that... plus, I doubt the Slayer felt she needed a safe-word.
Rape= Blurring of lines.Ohh god,pls help me.Such BS.Just keep to your not having soul at that time defense l.Just dont go more south.For god's sake just please don't. I know that 'you' people will defend spike to your deaths but once again for god's sake,just don't.
@@Samuelissad Get over yourself.
I know what you mean. There is a lot of build up and blurred lines leading up to this, and the fact its a vampire and a slayer, not two regular joes in the real world. Their world, their rules have always been slightly different. Excusable, no. But understandable in how the two characters ended up here based on their relationships and psyches and emotions? Yeah, sadly.
@@Samuelissad are you ok? Sheesh... where does all this animosity for "us people" (whatever that means) come from?
@@holi117 exactly what I meant. I sure as heck don't condone what Spike did, and personally - he never recovered in my esteem of him... but, that doesn't mean understanding can't happen.
Human beings are the only creatures on earth who hurt others unnecessarily.
That's completely untrue.
ever seen a cat play with a mouse
@@nostrum6410 Me flashing back to orca food play 😬.
Thee best episode of season six! God I love Warren! Also, in real life, Warren and Tara were boyfriend and girlfriend. So there's that....
Kyle, may I suggest next time you provide a cat when you know something like this is coming? Kitty biscuits and purrs and snuggles and all better and no one remembers everything is terrible yaaaaay. hahaha Love y'all!
Yesssssss. Very necessary. You bet I cried into the kitty bellies when i got home. 😿
I have 2 hours left of work... I want to watch this but I'm not sure I can right now haha
Xander starts to say Xander things, and Kyle is immediately, visibly uncomfortable. There it is. That is my mood. 😆
Obviously the bathroom scene is super controversial. Personally while I don't like the scene (and in fact fast forward through it on rewatches) I understand the necessity of it. The audience needed to be reminded of who Spike really was; a souless demon. Also it was needed to bring Spike down to his lowest point and send him down the path the characters takes.
I found his reaction to it afterwards fascinating. He seemed upset that he hurt her, but doesn't seem to comprehend how or even whose fault it really is, but feels bad because Buffy pleased makes him happy. It reminded me a lot of how he adjusted for Drusilla when got looked upset with him.
This episode is so upsetting and on top of everything Joss puts Amber Benson in the credits as a series regular for the first and only time because he's a jerk. :( Tara was too pure, she didn't deserve this.
Also, I wonder if Mackenzie knows that Amber Benson (Tara) and Adam Busch (Warren) dated for years. 😬 Obviously they are not their characters but it was very weird for Buffy fans to see them together
I've seen several interviews with Adam Busch. A more likable and decent sort of person you're not likely to find.
Actually, Joss stopped running the show after the 5th season. The last two seasons Marti Noxon was running the show (literally). That's why the show took such a dark turn the last two seasons.
@@kingbrutusxxvi he was still involved and it was still his vision even though he was around less. Also he has said in interviews that he had wanted to make Eric Balfour (Jesse) a regular for S1E1 to trick the audience into thinking he was going to stick around. It was absolutely Joss' idea to play that trick on the audience with Amber's name in the main credits.
My dude has something way off to the left he's very fascinated by during this reaction lol
yup lets just get to it...
The sex slave thing was bad (and I always thought the other two of the trio going along with it was worse), but now we have an attempted rape on camera, followed by the kill your gays trope. I get why Joss brought back one of the most popular characters of the show, but in the end, it went wrong. He kept trying to remind the audience he was evil, but that scene did a number on James. Now that we know how Joss treated Charisma in Angel... ugh. People say George Lucas is an idiot, but also an artist; in Joss Whedon's case, replace idiot with asshole.
Warren is still the scariest villain in the show. Because he's real. Look no further than 4chan and you'll find a million Warrens.
Great reaction Guys, this ep is a hard one and you did it great.
-1:46 ah wait and see in season 7
He does redeem
Still love this reaction 👁👄👁 @ 13:19
I cry everytime.
This is one of my favorite episodes! So much happens and it sets off the best arc! I do have to admit that while I understand the necessity of it I usually skip over the bathroom scene. It's such a dark episode and it's one of the ones I've rewatched the most. Buckle up, because the ride has only just begun.
Been dreading/looking forward to this reaction for a while. I've seen the episode who knows how many times, and it still guts me every time. So very dark - the universe of "The Wish" seems almost childishly happy by comparison. Warren's not as fun to watch as Mayor Wilkins or Glory, but like you said, he's scarier because there really are people like that in the world: men who view women entirely as objects to acquire and use, and wrap so much of their world around that idea that any challenge to it is met with murderous rage. And the whole scene with Spike, as well-executed as it is (hats off to Marsters and Gellar there) - I get what the writer was trying to do, but it is one of those rare times when an important scene on "Buffy" hits a very different note than I think they intended. In part, it's a little like Angelus killing Jenny Calendar: it reminds the audience that yeah, this is a vampire, this is an evil being and we shouldn't gloss that over because sexy/funny/does some good stuff sometimes.
Sigo llorando con este episodio !! :(
In a lot of ways, Warren was the most prescient bad guy in the history of the series.
How is he prescient? Or more prescient then the mayor was at least?
@@danilopapais1464 Because there are a ton of Warren's in the world, and in genre fandom in particular. I've never met a politician who is planning to become a giant snake like monster, but I encounter multiple people with the mentality of Warren online every single day.
@@Tim85-y2q I know but that has nothing to do with the word "prescient" unless there is another meaning to it in slang or urban dictionary? I neither see any aspect of clairvoyancy or visionary ability in him or similar. Maybe you wanted to use another word and autocorrect botched it?
@@danilopapais1464 Let me clarify: I find prescient that the show was able to create a character that has only resonated more and more in real life in the years since.
I just can't with this episode, big nope from me, its one of those episodes I cannot sit through and watch fully, one of the most disturbing and horrifying episodes in the series, James Marsters was emotionally affected by this episode, he repeatedly apologized to Sarah, she apparently told him its ok, she said something like we gotta finish the scene and in between filming he would get on the floor in the fetal position, also after he filmed this scene he had put in his contract that he would never do this again, he turned down roles because of this.
He always seemed like a kind person.
I like this episode, I can see why others wouldn't though. For me, it's the catalyst for events to come so is necessary for the continuing plot. I also think it was well acted and directed so to throw it away throws all that's gone into it away to. I also find it interest watching people react to the episode because I find that men and women react to it differently (Buffy/Spike scene). Men get very offended and out right disgusted, and automatically write Spike off. Where as I often find women tend to really absorb what's happening and can look at the bigger picture, and I think that because women - more often than not - have either been in a situation like that themselves or know someone who has. It's kind of part and parcel of being a woman, unfortunately, but I think that's why we can be a bit more objective rather than having a more outwardly visible reaction to it.
We Watch Whedon | Buffy | Seeing Red
"4 minutes ago" - click, click, click, click!!!
At the time, after this episode I almost rage quit the show
I've heard numbers as high as 25% of the fanbase left after this point. It's really hard to tell though. Viewership had been slipping for a few years, due to a variety of reasons, the biggest being the network switch after season five.