Ttthhhhankkkyoouuuu it feels hurtful and invalidating when people assume that I’m some sort of transphobe because I identify as bisexual and even when I tell them I can also be attracted to non binary people, they tell me if I’m bi, I’m only attracted to men and women, like some sort of gaslighting?
I forgot to mention, this video focuses specifically on UK and US bi history, as that's all I really have access too. I encourage anyone who can to do research into the history of non-English speaking countries in particular! Modern LGBT history certainly did not begin in English speaking countries, and it would be nice to get the bigger picture!
To my knowledge there isn’t a recorded transphobic bisexual community but there was a “fem-phobic” bisexual movement in Germany, started by Adolf Brand and Max Friedlander in the 1890’s to 1932. Friedlander started the first homophile organization and Brand started the first homophile magazine Der Eigene. But they looked down upon effeminate homosexuals and exclusive homosexuality, they were both married to women. Also this attitude was partly adopted by the writer Thomas Mann who wrote for the magazine. Adolf Brand did work with Magnus Hirschfeld who was a Gay cross dressing sexologist. Magnus Hirschfeld was an activist for a larger segment of what we now would call LGBT. But Hirschfeld was not perfect either. He took the popular medical point of view that bisexual people should be encouraged to be straight. And Brand had the point of view that effeminate homosexuals made his movement look bad.
@@matthewkopp2391 ... it's seem more complicated and easier than that. Brand ... is mainly recognised as a gay activist. Same-sex attraction in a romanticised and sexualised way was his main issue. He was a strong adherent to binary gender conformity. The ideal was the Ancient Greek one. (Similar to the ones Oscar Wilde encountered in Oxford.) He and his movement were strong opponents of Hirschfeld's theories about sex and gender spectra as well as sexual attraction being a biological trait. Brand was incarcerated for outing other people. To me the movement around Brand was a masculinist one ... and being married was more of a conventional cover up. Can the movement be called "bi activist"? Well ... it depends. To me it had been more a club of somewhat chauvinist married gay and bi men trying to normalise homosexual behaviour.
@@FR0STBL0Din Camden a transgender activist and historian said everyone in Brand’s group was bisexual except one who famously broke from the group and created an exclusively gay group. Why would Brand be both “out” as a “homophile” and “not out” at the same time and also be one of the most publicly out people of his era? Your suggestion that he was covering up his homosexuality through marriage reaks of biphobia and erasure. He both collaborated with Hirschfeld and did not like Hirschfeld’s advocacy of femininity in men. Hirschfeld on the other hand believed all bisexual people ought to be only coupled with the opposite gender. So both had ideological prejudices. I also know that Thomas Mann wrote for Der Eigene, and had a similar prejudice as Brand, and did not want his children to be exclusively homosexual.
The funniest part to me is that the very argument that bisexuality is transphobic is in itself transphobic. To suggest saying that I'm attracted to men and women is trans-exclusionary implies that trans men aren't real men and trans women aren't real women ??? Side note: thank you for such an informative and well-researched video !
ikr I heard somewhere about how someone had met a few bisexual people who wouldnt date a trans woman and that immediately struck me as blatant (if minor) transphobia
@@legalfictionnaturalfact3969 Why do say "transwomen" as if it's some slur or whatever. It's a legitimate term transwomen in general prefer to be called when relevant to the conversation such as in discussions when talking about transwomen and ciswomen to differentiate between the two.
@@narutojf93 no, honey, i'm saying that if they are women, CALL THEM WOMEN. to call them transwomen is bigoted because ThEy ArE wOmEn!11 remember? lmao
ugh! it's so frustrating! I accidentally came out to two of my coworkers at work cuz I overheard one of them going on a tangent about how "bisexuals don't like non-binary or GNC or trans folk, pansexuals do, and that's why I identify as pansexual now, blah blah blah" and I don't talk a lot at work, but I felt so strongly about this topic that I HAD to say something. like, I fully went "according to the bisexual manifesto" on that fool because he was very very wrong. I think I was also just very hurt by that comment as I myself am bisexual AND non-binary/GNC whatever you want to call it, I own like 3 binders now and feel dysphoric about certain things like dresses and pregnancy and it's a whole thing. and he was like "oh well, then you're pan" and it's just so frustrating having to argue with people that while bi means 2, it's not a binary sexuality, we're attracted to 2 or more genders smh. it's also just very condescending to act like they know our identity more than we do. as if they can just tell us how and what we feel. identify how YOU want, but don't bring me into this!
Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm also bi and nb and its just like... Y'all really don't know or seem to care that you're blatantly wrong. No, my sexuality isn't trans exclusionary, I'm literally trans and have been attracted to both trans and cis people in the past, what more do you want from me?
Isn't this just an issue of the etymology being confusing? To someone who isn't part of the bisexual community, the "bi-" prefix does seem to be specifying "two", not "two or more". It makes sense that the word's meaning has been expanded over time, but it also makes sense for outsiders to interpret "bi-" as implying some sort of binary, because that's what that prefix generally means.
i cannot get over people arguing that the bi community is inherently anti-nonbinary and binary-obsessed. like, y’all, have you seen our flag? what’s that purple stripe doing there? NOT representing a mixing of the feminine and masculine, i guess?
@@jalapeno1119 it's literally meant to represent and in-between, a mixing of both. What other flag has this same purple? The nonbinary flag ✨ and it means the same thing
The bi flag color meanings is actually heterosexual attraction, homosexual attraction, and the middle being both attraction at the same time. You’re thinking of the pan flag which actually represents male identified, female identified, and non-binary identified
The thing about the whole argument is, when I considered myself trans, I dated almost exclusively bisexual people. Not out of preference or anything, but because bisexual (and pansexual) people were literally the only people that would even consider being with me. Straight men and lesbian women weren't keen on dating me at all. But the fact of the matter is, it's a bunch of fuckin' rubbish if anyone says bisexual or pansexual people are transphobic. I really don't know where people get this information because it's never been true -- at least, not in my case.
@@samuelforesta I've encountered a couple of people like that. Generally they think that choosing the bi label instead of the pan one means that person is transphobic and wouldn't date nonbinary people. It boils down to pan = valid, bi = not valid. I agree that it makes no sense though, we're so much stronger together!
@@montannatilton9114 yeah, as a pan myself it’s stupid that people think like that, it’s actually one of the reasons why I identified with being pan is so I can make it clearer that I’m not transphobic- it’s sad that we think like that, and I hope it changes soon.
Back when I first became involved in LGBTQ+ activism in Florida in the 1990s, before "pan" as a separate identity was really even a thing people identified as, or "non-binary" / "genderqueer" either for that matter, the LGBTQ+ student group I belonged to had a bi group and a trans group that met on the same night. Any time there was poor attendance in either of the groups, we joined forces and met together because it was very much a natural fit. And we built community together because both of our groups knew what it was like to be marginalized in lesbian and gay spaces. We were really comfortable meeting together and it built stronger bonds between us. As a non-binary bisexual person myself, I still use the label of "bi" instead of "pan" even though my attraction is functionally the same as "pan" for so many reasons. I came out as bi before people used pan. Bi for me is not trans-exclusionary or NB-exclusionary - I can be attracted to people of any gender. Bi is legally recognized in non-discrimination legislation where I live. The bi flag is more visually pleasing than the pan flag. The word "bi/bisexual" is more generally known and understood than "pan/pansexual". And I consider bi to be an umbrella term that encompasses any non-monosexual attraction. Bi+. My bisexuality - and that of other bisexuals I have known in the US and the UK - has always been trans-inclusive.
I love the story of the two groups just joining. I like that. I wish more of the lgbtq+ would be more open and inclusive of all, theres far too much separation and invalidation and gate-keeping etc.
As a bisexual woman dating a trans woman I can't help but feel like my relationship is never taken seriously by others. From outsider's point of view we look like a straight cisgender couple. My partner is not yet comfortable going outside fully dressed feminine like they usually are when we are at home. It's caused more problems than I can even list. At pride parades we are mocked or seeming to be cisgender, and occasionally when I post about us in forums I get angry little messages telling me that I'm "holding her back" and that I should just "let her go and be the woman she wants to be." I also get told that I won't feel the same about my partner once they undergo surgery and that all I am doing is prolonging an inevitable break up. So then I tried telling people I was Pansexual and the argument became an issue of me not being "truly" attracted to all genders because I'm still having sex with someone with a penis which somehow makes me immediately not attracted to women. So, here I am, on the internet, giving up and saying I'm just Bisexual because of the reasoning at 9:38. I thought by 30 I'd have all of this figured out, but nope. 🙃
I'm sorry people are such arseholes! I started dating my bi partner before I started hormones and we first started talking years before I even started socially transitioning, and ya know what? We are still together! These haters have no idea what they're talking about!
This along with the club Pulse shooting has me scared to attend pride... Scared we'll be shot and scared we'll be harassed. I'm afab NB and my husband is a Cis man.... I want to enjoy being around other queer ppl, not be afraid they'll reject me at an event supposed to celebrate us all.
I'm a bisexual trans woman and I've heard all kinds of shit, but I aint even heard of a bisexual community much less one that is transphobic. though I have experienced plenty of trans and bi phobia from gay and lesbian communities. I do also keep hearing about this all inclusive LGBT+ community but its something I've never actually witnessed.
Unfortunately I have maybe because of my area but most of the people I have met that were bisexual would try and force me back to being cis or treat me as a girl (I'm a trans man) They would say they didn't care but then acted openly transphobic towards me. Once I was asked to go to a nudist park that didn't allow same sex couples by a bisexual man when I pointed that out to him he told me to just pretend I was a girl it's not like I had "actually transitioned" Other bisexual people would outright tell me that they didn't date trans people and that it was too weird for them. I haven't had this experience with every bisexual person my current partner is bisexual and he his wonderful. But I have NEVER had this experience with a pansexual person not a single time. I'm honestly very weary of trying to date bisexual people especially bisexual men because I've had such a terrible time with them ( Not nearly as bad as with gay men though. God that's another wormhole itself) Again my experience isn't universal I am aware and it maybe because I am in the deep south but pretending that transphobia doesn't exist at all in the bisexual community is dangerous.
As someone who's in the process of accepting their own bisexuality...thank you so much. Your insight into queer history in general and bi history specifically are a source of great comfort and education for me. I feel less alone every time a creator like you sheds some light on this. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Love this video. Sadly, you show these quotes to people who insist that "bi means two" or some other such bi-splaining bisexuality to bis and they counter with "language has changed" or "those sources are old". Yet thirty years from now will they not be clinging to their community's definitions when others try to redefine them? Sharing on all my media. Thank you.
I think they already are: many more young people are identifying as bisexual, and the "bi means two" people are as defensive as they are in part because Zoomers are alienated from their identity the same way they were alienated from bisexuality in the first place.
Having been dating and making friends with a lot of bisexuals, as a trans person, for the past 12 years, and being bisexual myself, I've also never found the bi community to be transphobic. If anything, I've felt it's the *least* transphobic community. Was it sometimes chaser-y? Yes, definitely, but far from always. Often it was just sweet. I consider myself a binary trans man, and have transitioned medically, but I do also embrace that my body was originally female and still partially is, and I love that for myself. My body, in and of itself, is basically a variant of what could be considered "physically nonbinary" at least as seen from the outside, especially by bisexual cis people who have loved and/or wanted me. I'm just a hell of a lot more likely to attract a fellow bisexual person, than a monosexual person. Because lesbians, gays and straights are all far more likely to favour either my male or female aspects, rather than being attracted to both. I don't wanna make a lesbian feel bad for not being attracted to my beard, or make a gay man feel bad for not being into my pussy. And I think in regards to how I feel about my body, a lot of nonbinary people can probably relate. I'm not saying I speak for nonbinary people's experiences of transphobic bisexuality, but rather that I kinda-sorta seek partners from a nonbinary perspective, in the sense that I always and only seek partners who are into people with androgynous bodies, and won't settle for less. And as for myself, I'm attracted to physical markers of both maleness and femaleness, in virtually any conceivable combination. Which basically includes cis and trans, of all genders. I also have an especially sweet spot for gender non-conformity in a partner. So my bisexuality is all inclusive, but I notice that it's based on a core concept of attraction to both male and female physical attributes. And that's the only kinda "binary" I sense. I don't think my brain registers whether it's my attraction to men or women that is to be considered gay or straight. I'm too trans for that, and too honest.
@@Alonzi. It’s a bit murky but I do believe she was trans, yes. Trans wasn’t really a big thing back then so being drag was the closest thing. She did refer to herself as a transvestite tho. The lines were very blurred back then. I think a good example is if you’ve ever seen “To Wong Foo: Thanks for Everything” the main queens care a lot about passing as women and are distraught when it’s brought to their attention that they are men. While the whole things is a drag movie I’d argue that is actually a trans one. That’s my two cents tho, to answer your question I’d say it’s hard to say but I’m leaning towards trans
Thanks for this research! I'm gonna share this, and I'll use it every time I see someone saying this about bisexuality. I've got a folder "debunking" and this is now sitting in that folder. Thanks!!
It makes me really happy to see well researched proof that transphobia being a pillar in bisexual activism as a whole is categorically untrue. I have thought myself, when I felt the most alone for it, that even my existence as a multi ethnic, bisexual, gnc person breaks down and disrupts black and white thinking and seperatism. Being "halfway in between", as some might put it, allows me to empathize and be the middle ground with so many groups that consider themselves unrelated or diametrically opposed.
I have not done exhaustive research about this, but I think the myth of transphobic bisexuals emerged partly from the creation of the word pansexual. The creation of this term directly critiques the "bi" prefix and therefore frames bisexuals as being exclusionnary of trans and/or non-binary people. I have seen pages filled with biphobic memes led by people claiming to be pansexuals. These people were framing themselves as "better" than bisexuals, therefore they needed to villify the "bi" to validate their identity. That is a weird form of biphobia since it comes from within the community. It is part of the reason why I choose to stick with the bisexual label after briefly contemplating the idea of switching to "pan". "Pan" may be a more accurate prefix it is not worth being associated with biphobic hatters. I am really not saying that everybody who identify as "pan" is biphobic. I am just saying it is something that I have personnaly seen too often and that it influenced my choice of label.
True, although my best friend identifies as pan so I know not all pan people are like that but on the internet I never see normal pan people who aren't biphobic
As someone who identifies as pansexual I'm sorry for the biphobia exhibited by us. I've honestly encountered pansexual people who are blatantly transphobic themselves. I think bisexual and pansexual are valid. I've never met any transphobic bisexual people. Now I don't really know what I consider myself. I considered myself bisexual before even coming out of the closet but felt that pansexual identified me because I am attracted to people in general. It just feels odd because I love my bisexual peeps. As a trans women I've always viewed y'all as the least transphobic ever. Where as I've gotten fetishized by gay cis men, backstabbed by cis lesbians/other trans women, othered by heterosexual people, and so much more but I've never really met transphobic bisexual people. Either way I love y'all. You are valid. As a pansexual transwomen I'm sorry for biphobia from pansexual people.
8:54 when I first found the word bisexual I only knew male and female, I didn’t know nonbinary people existed and so I chose bisexual as before I had only said I was neither gay or straight and my attractions was never based on gender. Now I use queer for various reasons but if I knew nonbinary people existed when I was a boy and still only knew the word bisexual I’d still use it in the “regardless of gender” I used it in as a child and I’ve seen people use online more recently. Also nonbinary bisexuals exist lol
ugh. THANK YOU SO MUCH for this. I've always had the same feeling. I see people all the time talking about bi people being transphobic and biphobic(?) even, and yet whenever I see that it's people talking about some supposed bi person, and I've never actually seen a bisexual person saying the things they talk about. I've always felt that bi and trans folks have a sort of special bond?? Maybe it's just me, but I've always felt that enbys, trans men and women, and bi folks, are very interlaced, and share a history of exclusion from the straight world and from our community itself. I've always thought we were bonded in that way and I have so much love and admiration for trans folks and it makes me mad that people are trying to create a division between us. I'm not saying there can't ever have been a bisexual person who is those things but ??? to say that it's rampant or even noticeable is very misleading to me.
You cracked my bisexuality egg! I've been binging your videos and something finally clicked. I didn't even realize how much biphobia I had internalized.
I came out as bi in 1993 when I was 16 and realized I was non-binary in my 30s. When I first picked up Anything That Moves it was my first introduction to trans issues and my first introduction to the idea of non-binary genders. I always saw bi and trans people as natural allies because both communities were constantly fighting to be acknowledged and included in the LG(BT) community. Being bi at that time very much felt like living in a grey area, outside of a binary notion of sexuality. When I got on twitter in the 2010s I was shocked to see people saying that bi people are transphobic, it was just so opposite to my experience. Thank you for this video.
I'm nonbinary and bisexual, and I appreciate this video so much. I refuse to push away the history and importance of the bisexual identity because others have decided or assumed things about us. Bisexual people have always included and embraced trans people as a whole, and I'm glad I now have something to show to people who disagree with that.
Basically, it's pedantry about the terminology and definition of words being used to excuse biphobia. Cool beans. My excuse for why I identify as bi over pan was previously "more people will immediately recognize the term bisexual than pansexual". Now it's "purple is my favorite color".
would it be possible to enable community translation for the CC in this video (i don't know if that's what it's called)? i think it would be an great ressource to share with a bi+ group I run with a friend but most people don't understand english (we're in France), so having acces to the CC to translate would be great for non english speakers and people who need CC in general.
@@lebazardebecques1223 ça serait trop cool d'avoir plus de ses videos traduites! perso j'ai juste traduit cette video avec les "community captioning", mais je crois que youtube a malheuresement désactivé cette fonctionnalité. faut voir si y'a moyen de faire quand meme...
Thank you, this was a very educational and interesting video! I used to identify as pan (but even then it was like "bi is fine too i guess") for some time when I was younger, but since people outside of queer communities didn't really understand the term, over time I kinda went more into using both pan/bi and as I educated myself more on bisexuality and how it's not as binary as I thought, I ended up calling myself only bisexual (and queer). And I'm very happy that I do, but I am also anxious about being in queer spaces where pan is seen as "attracted to all genders" (which I am) and bi as this very binary obsessed less inclusive term. (But then again I got bigger problems, like the doctors I have to go to to transition not believing in bisexuality AT ALL in the unholy year of 2021.) The fact that it's historically been kind of a non-binary sexuality makes me so happy as a non-binary man! And I've heard of a lot of non-binary bi people, so I hope this stereotype(?) about bi people only being into binary genders is gonna become less prominent.
just found you! You amazing divine being!! fourth video in and so far we have had tears, laughter and Ooooh revelations about the sexuality and activisim. From the bottom of this old bi's heart THANK YOU.
@@jalapeno1119 But is that what pan is labeled as now? Just curious. I identify as pansexual-demisexual. The demisexual part being my range of sexual attraction in general, and the pansexual part is what I'm attracted to. The pansexual part is more of a "beyond gender" thing. Like a "idgaf what gender you are, just be a good person and we're good" thing. I absolutely do NOT separate trans people as a third gender since my sexual attraction doesn't need gender-centered attraction anyways. It's just fucking ridiculous in the first place and I think a lot of other pan people think that as well. I'd say that is more what pansexuality is nowadays, at least for me since I can't find any other label that could represent that part of my attraction. But then again, labels is just a way to define your identity and sexuality because the human brain wants to make everything more simple than it actually is.
@@witchyemmy8090 identify however you want I utilimitly do not care frl, but if I can share my opinion on this, Its that by creating a new lable that distance itself from bi, saying its like bi but not gender-centrerd is assuming that bisexuals are gender-centered which you cant really because theres isnt one way to be bisexual imo
This really soothes my bi heart 🥰 Not that I was doubting our inclusivity, but knowing that gender non-conformity and exploration has been part of our "agenda" since the beginning of bi activism, it feels great and good and wholesome 💜 especially since my feelings towards gender are getting more and more complex with time
so I'm now fully out as bi, and I don't understand why people assume I exclude trans men and women from who I'm attracted to. the closest thing I get to that is generally (but not always) am less attracted to trans men but I'm also less attracted to men in general and more attracted to women, trans or not. I did find one guy that I liked enough to get married to because we just work together, so now I'm apparently heterosexual despite being very attracted to women including trans women. that's an entirely other issue though.
the assertion that bi = transphobic has always been ridiculous. i think it mostly comes down to an idealistic attack on the word itself and was extrapolated from there into a huge online argument.
There was a Bisexuals Community in Sydney Australia for many years during the 70/80. I have been a Transsexual for 45 years now and I find the American experience towards both Trans/Bi Communities very interesting. Also we had something that maybe unique to Australia but I miss the time when we had TransRoyals in the community. We Had Queens/Kings in our community for many years up until the Mid 90s. The problem is that in my generation there's not many of us left anymore. With those of us left hitting our 5/6/70s there's a large amount of our history and Knowledge starting to disappear sadly. Because were getting Mature and or minds are starting to slip. Which is upsetting to us because a lot of Beautiful people in our Community will be forgotten about.
Hi, I'm a young transsexual Sydneysider, I rarely get to hear much of Sydney/Australian lgbt history, let alone of our trans history. I'd love to hear more about your experience if you'd be open to sharing!
I don’t know if you’ve been to UK Trans Pride and the newer Bi Pride, but I went to both pre pandemic and it was crazy how many of the same people were at both events, and how Trans positive Bi pride felt. I feel like the two communities have an overlap
I decided to reject bi as a label for myself in favour of pan once I became aware of the level of adversity currently faced by trans people, to be more inclusive of them. Even more so once I realised myself as nonbinary. But you know what? I'm taking it back, and it's thanks to VerilyBitchie making me see what it's really about - so maybe I'm bi and pan and that's valid
As someone that identifies as Pan and has for years, its really dumb to think Bi people are trans/NB exclusionary. The main reason i ended up identifying as pan years ago was because i didnt want people to think i was trans/NB exclusionary (the sites id reasearched on made it seem like bi people only liked cis/trans men and women) but knowing more about the communities today, it honestly feels like we're the same sexuality. I dont know why so many people think Bisexuality is only cis inclusive. It really makes no sense. Love you to all the Bi community and the pans, trans, non binary and all other LGBTQIA+ people that read this!!!❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Finding your videos, as a Bisexual who has never felt as if they've had a community, I feel like I have a community. These videos about Bisexuality and its relation to the past and present communities have already helped me come to an understanding I always felt but never could say properly. I am loving every different video, new and old, and I cant wait to make some art based on my new found Bi-ness!
I've identified as bisexual since 1993 the gen z people are cutting sexuality into such tiny slices and they've decided the bi in bisexuality stands for transphobia. So by their logic I should convert to being pansexual but to me this is just another word for bisexual, a less useful one because it's less known. I'm 41 and I haven't changed so I'm not changing my label. I'm totally fine with trans people and can be attracted to them and their bodies and I'm cool with treating people as they wish to be treated and not being limited to be binary. Bisexuality doesn't prevent this. All bisexuals just like heterosexual and homosexual people are different and find different people romantically and sexually attractive.
While genderqueer and non-binary are terms of this century, their have been similar terms in those of androgyny and others before these. I can even think of some early trans resources that referenced terms for non-binary resources under androgyny in the 90's.
I’m always so confused why some members of the queer community are so determined to send the message that bisexuals are transphobic. I don’t know where this association comes from or why it’s so strong. But it is ceaselessly frustrating as a bisexual to have to constantly try and debunk these myths.
I feel like this is really the result of a lack of older Bi and Trans People and Knowledge about the History of the communities on the internet and the way young people bred their own view on sexuality on tumblr without the knowledge about lived experience of the years prior..
In my experience in Chicago from the 1990 - the present the out bisexual people and transgender people often hung out together. I also experienced this in other cities. I don’t know where the idea of transphobia in the bisexual community comes from. The only thing I can think of is the swinger community which accepted female bisexuality but not male bisexuality and was very gender normative. But I actually hypothesize that the rumor is so ahistorical that it may have a more sinister origin. As if it was purposely created exactly at the same time that bisexual women and men were designated as officially real by science around 2011 and gaining more recognition in general. I think that many conservative straight and gay people have a lot at stake to make sure that bisexual activists don’t gain power in organizations. A good way to prevent this to divide the bisexual community. This is a hypothesis but there was rampant biphobia in the gay male community all my life and much was not mere innocent ignorance but proactive sabotage.
Honestly aside from its latin roots it makes 100% sense that bisexuallity would be so open towards transgenderism. After all, are not people under the umbrella less concerned with what is actually in someone who they find attractives pants? Not to mention the fact that a bi person could very easily still be attracted to a partner throughout a medical transition far more easily than any of the singular sexualities.
One of the bad apples in the pan community got in an argument with me being allegedly transphobic a while back. For saying I prefer masculine presenting people. I clearly laid out what I meant by this - 'butch' women cis or not, masculine presenting men cis or not, genderfluid or any manner of genders if they present more masculine. Have only just found your channel and while I don't like sticking to any one label, I like aligning with bisexual just for the sake of a relatively like minded community. See you've got a ton of videos, including ones about bisexuality. One that I've seen before, apparently? Anyway your content is a treat, I'll be checking out more.
It makes me incredibly mad that bisexuals are constantly expected to explicitly state that yes, we are attracted to nonbinary people as well. Like 1st of all, bro?? I'm bisexual, you really think nonbinary people is where I draw the line? And 2ndly straight and gay people can also be attracted to nonbinary and are they EVER expected to say anything like "ah yes I'm a straight man, I am attracted to women and nonbinary people" no! When they are attracted to someone nonbinary it just happens and no statement it needed. Granted I have seen instances where lesbians do say something along the lines of "I am attracted to women and nonbinary people", but my point is I'm tired of "bI mEanS TwO, yOu hATE n-b PeOPle" and even more so "Um actually bisexuality is exclusionary to (binary) trans people..." give me a break.
I am definitely saving this video for the next argument with some “bi means two, and that means no trans!” biphobe. Also, that argument never made sense to me. You could reasonably say (were the definition of bisexuality to mean two and no more than two), that you’re excluding non binary people. That would make sense, if (big if) that were the definition of bisexuality. But it makes no sense to say that it excludes binary trans people. They fit into that two. Of course, this is all academic, as bisexuality does not exclude non binary people. Two or more is my favoured definition.
Thank you, it's really interesting to see how language changes just enough to create situation where it's too confusing to look back. I super appreciate your research and activism.
this is a great explanation and an even greater video. i've identified as bisexual for 5 years and i've never seen someone else explain my thoughts so well? definitely giving a sub. also youre really pretty :)
You´re so pretty it hurts. Also, quite educational video. There is a common misconception here in Brazil`s queer community that bisexuals are inherently transphobic and Pansexuals are nice people.
It's like people who identify as pansexual invented this narrative that bisexuality is inherently shallow or exclusionary or whatever to make their sexuality seem both inherently distinct and morally superior I don't think there is a concrete difference between bisexuality and pansexuality, and I don't think that's an issue. Use whichever label for your identity you think fits you better, but don't put other people down to give yourself some sense of legitimacy
I think the other thing to keep in mind with that is that need to distance themselves to feel less slutty and thus more moral is a reaction to biphobia. People from mostly outside bi spaces made them feel like they were terrible for being bi and so they felt they couldn't or shouldn't use bi because of the connotations. Like this desperate need to be "the better version" of bi is just internalized biphobia.
I never thought of the bisexual community as a whole to be transphobic. But I have started calling myself bi/pan to make it clear to people that I’m open to anyone, no matter who they are. But now I’m understanding that...that’s not quite right because Bisexuality isn’t exclusionary to anyone.
I never understood this either. It doesn’t make sense with respect to my own bisexuality or even seem to achieve basic self-consistency as an argument against us. I have encountered plenty of transphobic gays and lesbians, though.
I think part of the idea that the bisexual community might be transphobic comes from the way we use bi and pansexual interchangeably sometimes, and having misunderstandings as to what the terms mean. Several people have told me that as a bisexual, I couldn't be attracted to nonbinary people, and if I was then I was actually pan. The idea behind pansexuality is attraction to people for who they are instead of their gender, much like Elizabeth Reba Weise described bisexuality in 1992, likely before the term pansexual was popularized. I believe the term pansexual can be helpful when used to describe that specifically, but it's sometimes used interchangeably with bisexual, which has lead some people to the conclusion that bisexuals can't be attracted to all genders because that's what pansexuality is, which is a misunderstanding of both bi and pansexuality.
1:50 as a trans individual, yeah cis people do kinda prove they’re willing to learn and grow etc through their actions and all that but like... that’s Mano e Mano kinda thing you know? And for me it doesn’t matter whether you’re part of any LGBT+ community if you’re not trans I have to see more often that openness and willingness. But that’s just for my own safety and peace of mind? I don’t think the whole community needs to prove this sort of thing if the overall consensus is that trans people can be bi and welcome?
Knew I was bi at twelve but didn't have the words to explain it, came out at thirteen. Realised I was experiencing gender dysphoria at nine, realised I was nonbinary at fifteen, denied it before coming out at seventeen. Never looked back ☺️❤️
Personally, I feel, as a bisexual, that those on the non binary spectrum are possibly more attractive to me as i find it far more validating and it sends me into less of a bisexual crisis where i feel like a part of me is left out.
As a pansexual who first identified as bisexual, the idea that we're "less transphobic" always kind of baffled and pissed me off because like, 1, wouldn't they be specifically non binaryphobic???? Cause trans men and women still fit in the gender binary?? But even then, like obviously not???? Gender has always been incredibly fluid and while they're weren't always this many people aware of a lot of peoples labels, why would it be different??? Like I've never heard of any bi people (in general, obviously there are ppl in every demographic who are bigoted assholes, but, yk) being 100% unattractive to non binary people?? Like????? People really hate multi spectrum sexualities for absolutely no reason
I realize I'm late to this party but as a non-op pangender femme, I have encountered transphobia around bisexual non-monogamy, as opposed to it being a facet of bisexuality itself, and I wonder if experiences like mine have reinforced this idea of bisexuality being transphobic. The situation I so commonly see is where a bisexual woman is in a relationship with a heterosexual cisgender male. Yes, we're talking about the unicorn hunters. I think transphobia in tinder-era dating is more common that in the rest of the bisexual world. Anyhow, just my extremely late thoughts. Great video!
bisexual transvestite here. My gender is male, my sex is male, my clothes were tailored for a woman. transvestite literally means the other person's clothes. I am valid.
I think bisexual is best understood by it's inclusive definition as well as an umbrella term for easy communication in short conversations. I often label myself as bi even though omni is more accurate.
@@pelotudasincerebro5399 The idea is that pan people love all genders and gender isn't a concern at all, whilst for omni people we love all genders but someone's gender can be meaningful to how we feel about the person. That can manifest as preferences, but it doesn't have to.
Not necesaarily a perfect indicator of not being transphobic, but bi people on average are way more comfortable dating a trans person than gays/lesbians or straights
Ttthhhhankkkyoouuuu it feels hurtful and invalidating when people assume that I’m some sort of transphobe because I identify as bisexual and even when I tell them I can also be attracted to non binary people, they tell me if I’m bi, I’m only attracted to men and women, like some sort of gaslighting?
Yeah it really sucks. We have to work to change this ridiculous narrative.
@@verilybitchie0
Me: It's biphobia?
The Video: Always has been.
I forgot to mention, this video focuses specifically on UK and US bi history, as that's all I really have access too. I encourage anyone who can to do research into the history of non-English speaking countries in particular! Modern LGBT history certainly did not begin in English speaking countries, and it would be nice to get the bigger picture!
To my knowledge there isn’t a recorded transphobic bisexual community but there was a “fem-phobic” bisexual movement in Germany, started by Adolf Brand and Max Friedlander in the 1890’s to 1932. Friedlander started the first homophile organization and Brand started the first homophile magazine Der Eigene. But they looked down upon effeminate homosexuals and exclusive homosexuality, they were both married to women.
Also this attitude was partly adopted by the writer Thomas Mann who wrote for the magazine.
Adolf Brand did work with Magnus Hirschfeld who was a Gay cross dressing sexologist. Magnus Hirschfeld was an activist for a larger segment of what we now would call LGBT. But Hirschfeld was not perfect either. He took the popular medical point of view that bisexual people should be encouraged to be straight. And Brand had the point of view that effeminate homosexuals made his movement look bad.
@@matthewkopp2391 ... it's seem more complicated and easier than that.
Brand ... is mainly recognised as a gay activist. Same-sex attraction in a romanticised and sexualised way was his main issue. He was a strong adherent to binary gender conformity.
The ideal was the Ancient Greek one. (Similar to the ones Oscar Wilde encountered in Oxford.)
He and his movement were strong opponents of Hirschfeld's theories about sex and gender spectra as well as sexual attraction being a biological trait.
Brand was incarcerated for outing other people.
To me the movement around Brand was a masculinist one ... and being married was more of a conventional cover up.
Can the movement be called "bi activist"? Well ... it depends. To me it had been more a club of somewhat chauvinist married gay and bi men trying to normalise homosexual behaviour.
@@FR0STBL0Din Camden a transgender activist and historian said everyone in Brand’s group was bisexual except one who famously broke from the group and created an exclusively gay group.
Why would Brand be both “out” as a “homophile” and “not out” at the same time and also be one of the most publicly out people of his era? Your suggestion that he was covering up his homosexuality through marriage reaks of biphobia and erasure. He both collaborated with Hirschfeld and did not like Hirschfeld’s advocacy of femininity in men. Hirschfeld on the other hand believed all bisexual people ought to be only coupled with the opposite gender. So both had ideological prejudices.
I also know that Thomas Mann wrote for Der Eigene, and had a similar prejudice as Brand, and did not want his children to be exclusively homosexual.
The funniest part to me is that the very argument that bisexuality is transphobic is in itself transphobic. To suggest saying that I'm attracted to men and women is trans-exclusionary implies that trans men aren't real men and trans women aren't real women ???
Side note: thank you for such an informative and well-researched video !
ikr I heard somewhere about how someone had met a few bisexual people who wouldnt date a trans woman and that immediately struck me as blatant (if minor) transphobia
so true lol. also thought about that.
all these bigots calling them "transwomen"... THEY'RE WOMEN REMEMBER.
lol.
@@legalfictionnaturalfact3969 Why do say "transwomen" as if it's some slur or whatever. It's a legitimate term transwomen in general prefer to be called when relevant to the conversation such as in discussions when talking about transwomen and ciswomen to differentiate between the two.
@@narutojf93 no, honey, i'm saying that if they are women, CALL THEM WOMEN. to call them transwomen is bigoted because ThEy ArE wOmEn!11 remember?
lmao
ugh! it's so frustrating! I accidentally came out to two of my coworkers at work cuz I overheard one of them going on a tangent about how "bisexuals don't like non-binary or GNC or trans folk, pansexuals do, and that's why I identify as pansexual now, blah blah blah" and I don't talk a lot at work, but I felt so strongly about this topic that I HAD to say something.
like, I fully went "according to the bisexual manifesto" on that fool because he was very very wrong. I think I was also just very hurt by that comment as I myself am bisexual AND non-binary/GNC whatever you want to call it, I own like 3 binders now and feel dysphoric about certain things like dresses and pregnancy and it's a whole thing. and he was like "oh well, then you're pan" and it's just so frustrating having to argue with people that while bi means 2, it's not a binary sexuality, we're attracted to 2 or more genders smh.
it's also just very condescending to act like they know our identity more than we do. as if they can just tell us how and what we feel. identify how YOU want, but don't bring me into this!
Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm also bi and nb and its just like... Y'all really don't know or seem to care that you're blatantly wrong. No, my sexuality isn't trans exclusionary, I'm literally trans and have been attracted to both trans and cis people in the past, what more do you want from me?
That's always fun when ppl tell you who you fucking are....... Couldn't possibly listen to bi+ ppl.... **rips hair out**...
Isn't this just an issue of the etymology being confusing? To someone who isn't part of the bisexual community, the "bi-" prefix does seem to be specifying "two", not "two or more". It makes sense that the word's meaning has been expanded over time, but it also makes sense for outsiders to interpret "bi-" as implying some sort of binary, because that's what that prefix generally means.
i cannot get over people arguing that the bi community is inherently anti-nonbinary and binary-obsessed. like, y’all, have you seen our flag? what’s that purple stripe doing there? NOT representing a mixing of the feminine and masculine, i guess?
Actually, it's not. That's kind of sexist to assume one color is meant to represent a Specific gender.
@@jalapeno1119 They never said which color was which, you just seemed to assume shit xD
@@jalapeno1119 it's literally meant to represent and in-between, a mixing of both. What other flag has this same purple? The nonbinary flag ✨ and it means the same thing
The bi flag color meanings is actually heterosexual attraction, homosexual attraction, and the middle being both attraction at the same time. You’re thinking of the pan flag which actually represents male identified, female identified, and non-binary identified
@@LiSkyFox At this point I'm surprised nobody has used a three-way Venn diagram as a flag.
The thing about the whole argument is, when I considered myself trans, I dated almost exclusively bisexual people. Not out of preference or anything, but because bisexual (and pansexual) people were literally the only people that would even consider being with me. Straight men and lesbian women weren't keen on dating me at all. But the fact of the matter is, it's a bunch of fuckin' rubbish if anyone says bisexual or pansexual people are transphobic. I really don't know where people get this information because it's never been true -- at least, not in my case.
your welcome- your friendly neighborhood bicycle
Im watching this after arguing with a extremely biphobic pan person, This video makes me so happy and I appreciate this so much
When pansexuals and bisexuals fight it's like a civil war of sorts lmao They make no sense in being biphobic if they're pan, oh well... Some people.
Bro. Why would a pan person be biphobic? That makes no sense!
@@samuelforesta I've encountered a couple of people like that. Generally they think that choosing the bi label instead of the pan one means that person is transphobic and wouldn't date nonbinary people. It boils down to pan = valid, bi = not valid. I agree that it makes no sense though, we're so much stronger together!
@@samuelforesta I'm 1 minute into the video but in my experience it's because they think the bis are transphobic. Let's see if I'm right.
@@montannatilton9114 yeah, as a pan myself it’s stupid that people think like that, it’s actually one of the reasons why I identified with being pan is so I can make it clearer that I’m not transphobic- it’s sad that we think like that, and I hope it changes soon.
3:25 bi monthly is a cute name for a bisexual newspaper ngl
But how often does it come out?!
puns are bi culture
@@Nick-ow7th Monthly unless they can't make a deadline. Then they can call it a pun.
Back when I first became involved in LGBTQ+ activism in Florida in the 1990s, before "pan" as a separate identity was really even a thing people identified as, or "non-binary" / "genderqueer" either for that matter, the LGBTQ+ student group I belonged to had a bi group and a trans group that met on the same night. Any time there was poor attendance in either of the groups, we joined forces and met together because it was very much a natural fit. And we built community together because both of our groups knew what it was like to be marginalized in lesbian and gay spaces. We were really comfortable meeting together and it built stronger bonds between us. As a non-binary bisexual person myself, I still use the label of "bi" instead of "pan" even though my attraction is functionally the same as "pan" for so many reasons. I came out as bi before people used pan. Bi for me is not trans-exclusionary or NB-exclusionary - I can be attracted to people of any gender. Bi is legally recognized in non-discrimination legislation where I live. The bi flag is more visually pleasing than the pan flag. The word "bi/bisexual" is more generally known and understood than "pan/pansexual". And I consider bi to be an umbrella term that encompasses any non-monosexual attraction. Bi+. My bisexuality - and that of other bisexuals I have known in the US and the UK - has always been trans-inclusive.
I love the story of the two groups just joining. I like that. I wish more of the lgbtq+ would be more open and inclusive of all, theres far too much separation and invalidation and gate-keeping etc.
i love this story and i think stories like this from pre- and early-internet queer spaces are so important to remember. thank you for sharing ❤️
Thank you for this video addressing the false narrative of the "inherently transphobic" bisexual community,, Your entire channel is golden!
As a bisexual woman dating a trans woman I can't help but feel like my relationship is never taken seriously by others. From outsider's point of view we look like a straight cisgender couple. My partner is not yet comfortable going outside fully dressed feminine like they usually are when we are at home. It's caused more problems than I can even list. At pride parades we are mocked or seeming to be cisgender, and occasionally when I post about us in forums I get angry little messages telling me that I'm "holding her back" and that I should just "let her go and be the woman she wants to be." I also get told that I won't feel the same about my partner once they undergo surgery and that all I am doing is prolonging an inevitable break up. So then I tried telling people I was Pansexual and the argument became an issue of me not being "truly" attracted to all genders because I'm still having sex with someone with a penis which somehow makes me immediately not attracted to women. So, here I am, on the internet, giving up and saying I'm just Bisexual because of the reasoning at 9:38. I thought by 30 I'd have all of this figured out, but nope. 🙃
I'm sorry people are such arseholes! I started dating my bi partner before I started hormones and we first started talking years before I even started socially transitioning, and ya know what? We are still together! These haters have no idea what they're talking about!
This along with the club Pulse shooting has me scared to attend pride... Scared we'll be shot and scared we'll be harassed. I'm afab NB and my husband is a Cis man.... I want to enjoy being around other queer ppl, not be afraid they'll reject me at an event supposed to celebrate us all.
I'm a bisexual trans woman and I've heard all kinds of shit, but I aint even heard of a bisexual community much less one that is transphobic. though I have experienced plenty of trans and bi phobia from gay and lesbian communities.
I do also keep hearing about this all inclusive LGBT+ community but its something I've never actually witnessed.
there are general-queer communities which generally are fine (if not without some infighting over labeling).
!!!
As a trans woman I haven't seen rampant transphobia.
Nor have I!
Unfortunately I have maybe because of my area but most of the people I have met that were bisexual would try and force me back to being cis or treat me as a girl (I'm a trans man) They would say they didn't care but then acted openly transphobic towards me. Once I was asked to go to a nudist park that didn't allow same sex couples by a bisexual man when I pointed that out to him he told me to just pretend I was a girl it's not like I had "actually transitioned" Other bisexual people would outright tell me that they didn't date trans people and that it was too weird for them. I haven't had this experience with every bisexual person my current partner is bisexual and he his wonderful. But I have NEVER had this experience with a pansexual person not a single time. I'm honestly very weary of trying to date bisexual people especially bisexual men because I've had such a terrible time with them ( Not nearly as bad as with gay men though. God that's another wormhole itself) Again my experience isn't universal I am aware and it maybe because I am in the deep south but pretending that transphobia doesn't exist at all in the bisexual community is dangerous.
@@theridley6451 I am sorry that happened. You are awesome. Yes we must be aware cause it can be dangerous.
@@theridley6451 Have you met a lot of pan people? Just curious
@@LiSkyFox yeah I've met a ton which is why i know i have an easier time with pan partners.
As someone who's in the process of accepting their own bisexuality...thank you so much. Your insight into queer history in general and bi history specifically are a source of great comfort and education for me. I feel less alone every time a creator like you sheds some light on this. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I’ve been identifying myself as bisexual since I was fourteen and I don’t know what’s up with your videos but I’ve never felt more proud
Love this video. Sadly, you show these quotes to people who insist that "bi means two" or some other such bi-splaining bisexuality to bis and they counter with "language has changed" or "those sources are old". Yet thirty years from now will they not be clinging to their community's definitions when others try to redefine them?
Sharing on all my media. Thank you.
I think they already are: many more young people are identifying as bisexual, and the "bi means two" people are as defensive as they are in part because Zoomers are alienated from their identity the same way they were alienated from bisexuality in the first place.
Having been dating and making friends with a lot of bisexuals, as a trans person, for the past 12 years, and being bisexual myself, I've also never found the bi community to be transphobic. If anything, I've felt it's the *least* transphobic community. Was it sometimes chaser-y? Yes, definitely, but far from always. Often it was just sweet. I consider myself a binary trans man, and have transitioned medically, but I do also embrace that my body was originally female and still partially is, and I love that for myself. My body, in and of itself, is basically a variant of what could be considered "physically nonbinary" at least as seen from the outside, especially by bisexual cis people who have loved and/or wanted me.
I'm just a hell of a lot more likely to attract a fellow bisexual person, than a monosexual person. Because lesbians, gays and straights are all far more likely to favour either my male or female aspects, rather than being attracted to both. I don't wanna make a lesbian feel bad for not being attracted to my beard, or make a gay man feel bad for not being into my pussy. And I think in regards to how I feel about my body, a lot of nonbinary people can probably relate. I'm not saying I speak for nonbinary people's experiences of transphobic bisexuality, but rather that I kinda-sorta seek partners from a nonbinary perspective, in the sense that I always and only seek partners who are into people with androgynous bodies, and won't settle for less.
And as for myself, I'm attracted to physical markers of both maleness and femaleness, in virtually any conceivable combination. Which basically includes cis and trans, of all genders. I also have an especially sweet spot for gender non-conformity in a partner. So my bisexuality is all inclusive, but I notice that it's based on a core concept of attraction to both male and female physical attributes. And that's the only kinda "binary" I sense. I don't think my brain registers whether it's my attraction to men or women that is to be considered gay or straight. I'm too trans for that, and too honest.
It almost like people forgot that one of the most prominent and well known figures in all of lgbt history was a bi trans woman of color 🤔
Wasn’t she a drag queen not trans? Or was she both
@@Alonzi. It’s a bit murky but I do believe she was trans, yes. Trans wasn’t really a big thing back then so being drag was the closest thing. She did refer to herself as a transvestite tho. The lines were very blurred back then. I think a good example is if you’ve ever seen “To Wong Foo: Thanks for Everything” the main queens care a lot about passing as women and are distraught when it’s brought to their attention that they are men. While the whole things is a drag movie I’d argue that is actually a trans one. That’s my two cents tho, to answer your question I’d say it’s hard to say but I’m leaning towards trans
@@owormiv im just going to say both
Marsha P. Johnson? Silvia Rivera?
Pepper Lebeija
Thanks for this research! I'm gonna share this, and I'll use it every time I see someone saying this about bisexuality. I've got a folder "debunking" and this is now sitting in that folder. Thanks!!
It makes me really happy to see well researched proof that transphobia being a pillar in bisexual activism as a whole is categorically untrue. I have thought myself, when I felt the most alone for it, that even my existence as a multi ethnic, bisexual, gnc person breaks down and disrupts black and white thinking and seperatism. Being "halfway in between", as some might put it, allows me to empathize and be the middle ground with so many groups that consider themselves unrelated or diametrically opposed.
hey, another bisexual gnc multiracial/cultural person here :) gotta love being inbetween everything all the time, huh?
Thanks for sharing, vb.
Bi & Trans Solidarity!
I have not done exhaustive research about this, but I think the myth of transphobic bisexuals emerged partly from the creation of the word pansexual.
The creation of this term directly critiques the "bi" prefix and therefore frames bisexuals as being exclusionnary of trans and/or non-binary people.
I have seen pages filled with biphobic memes led by people claiming to be pansexuals. These people were framing themselves as "better" than bisexuals, therefore they needed to villify the "bi" to validate their identity.
That is a weird form of biphobia since it comes from within the community.
It is part of the reason why I choose to stick with the bisexual label after briefly contemplating the idea of switching to "pan". "Pan" may be a more accurate prefix it is not worth being associated with biphobic hatters.
I am really not saying that everybody who identify as "pan" is biphobic. I am just saying it is something that I have personnaly seen too often and that it influenced my choice of label.
True, although my best friend identifies as pan so I know not all pan people are like that but on the internet I never see normal pan people who aren't biphobic
As someone who identifies as pansexual I'm sorry for the biphobia exhibited by us. I've honestly encountered pansexual people who are blatantly transphobic themselves. I think bisexual and pansexual are valid. I've never met any transphobic bisexual people. Now I don't really know what I consider myself. I considered myself bisexual before even coming out of the closet but felt that pansexual identified me because I am attracted to people in general. It just feels odd because I love my bisexual peeps. As a trans women I've always viewed y'all as the least transphobic ever. Where as I've gotten fetishized by gay cis men, backstabbed by cis lesbians/other trans women, othered by heterosexual people, and so much more but I've never really met transphobic bisexual people. Either way I love y'all. You are valid. As a pansexual transwomen I'm sorry for biphobia from pansexual people.
Transphobic pansexual? How did that work?
8:54 when I first found the word bisexual I only knew male and female, I didn’t know nonbinary people existed and so I chose bisexual as before I had only said I was neither gay or straight and my attractions was never based on gender. Now I use queer for various reasons but if I knew nonbinary people existed when I was a boy and still only knew the word bisexual I’d still use it in the “regardless of gender” I used it in as a child and I’ve seen people use online more recently. Also nonbinary bisexuals exist lol
I’m a nonbinary bisexual! I had a similar experience growing up. Ive always used bi to mean “not monosexual”
ugh. THANK YOU SO MUCH for this. I've always had the same feeling. I see people all the time talking about bi people being transphobic and biphobic(?) even, and yet whenever I see that it's people talking about some supposed bi person, and I've never actually seen a bisexual person saying the things they talk about. I've always felt that bi and trans folks have a sort of special bond?? Maybe it's just me, but I've always felt that enbys, trans men and women, and bi folks, are very interlaced, and share a history of exclusion from the straight world and from our community itself. I've always thought we were bonded in that way and I have so much love and admiration for trans folks and it makes me mad that people are trying to create a division between us. I'm not saying there can't ever have been a bisexual person who is those things but ??? to say that it's rampant or even noticeable is very misleading to me.
You cracked my bisexuality egg! I've been binging your videos and something finally clicked. I didn't even realize how much biphobia I had internalized.
I came out as bi in 1993 when I was 16 and realized I was non-binary in my 30s. When I first picked up Anything That Moves it was my first introduction to trans issues and my first introduction to the idea of non-binary genders. I always saw bi and trans people as natural allies because both communities were constantly fighting to be acknowledged and included in the LG(BT) community. Being bi at that time very much felt like living in a grey area, outside of a binary notion of sexuality. When I got on twitter in the 2010s I was shocked to see people saying that bi people are transphobic, it was just so opposite to my experience. Thank you for this video.
I'm nonbinary and bisexual, and I appreciate this video so much. I refuse to push away the history and importance of the bisexual identity because others have decided or assumed things about us. Bisexual people have always included and embraced trans people as a whole, and I'm glad I now have something to show to people who disagree with that.
Basically, it's pedantry about the terminology and definition of words being used to excuse biphobia. Cool beans.
My excuse for why I identify as bi over pan was previously "more people will immediately recognize the term bisexual than pansexual". Now it's "purple is my favorite color".
this is gold, thank you! and thank you so much for citing your sources, I'm excited to read though it all!
would it be possible to enable community translation for the CC in this video (i don't know if that's what it's called)? i think it would be an great ressource to share with a bi+ group I run with a friend but most people don't understand english (we're in France), so having acces to the CC to translate would be great for non english speakers and people who need CC in general.
Sure! I think I did it?
@@verilybitchie awesome yes, thanks!
@@zingzing7426 coucou! Je trouve cette chaîne super intéressante et si tu veux, je peux aider à la traduction en français ?
@@lebazardebecques1223 ça serait trop cool d'avoir plus de ses videos traduites! perso j'ai juste traduit cette video avec les "community captioning", mais je crois que youtube a malheuresement désactivé cette fonctionnalité. faut voir si y'a moyen de faire quand meme...
Thank you, this was a very educational and interesting video! I used to identify as pan (but even then it was like "bi is fine too i guess") for some time when I was younger, but since people outside of queer communities didn't really understand the term, over time I kinda went more into using both pan/bi and as I educated myself more on bisexuality and how it's not as binary as I thought, I ended up calling myself only bisexual (and queer). And I'm very happy that I do, but I am also anxious about being in queer spaces where pan is seen as "attracted to all genders" (which I am) and bi as this very binary obsessed less inclusive term. (But then again I got bigger problems, like the doctors I have to go to to transition not believing in bisexuality AT ALL in the unholy year of 2021.) The fact that it's historically been kind of a non-binary sexuality makes me so happy as a non-binary man! And I've heard of a lot of non-binary bi people, so I hope this stereotype(?) about bi people only being into binary genders is gonna become less prominent.
We need more bi content like this!!😔 Wish more people watched this
just found you! You amazing divine being!! fourth video in and so far we have had tears, laughter and Ooooh revelations about the sexuality and activisim. From the bottom of this old bi's heart THANK YOU.
I always feel like LG is in cahoots, and BT are just vibing together.
YESS!!! pansexuals use this rhetoric but continue to separate trans people from men and women and I just want us all to get along!!
Ikrr😔
it’s not all pan people, i promise. i came here to defend y’all🥺
@@kimwelch4652 No, it doesn't. The whole fucking point of the pan label is to separate trans as a third gender. Know your goddamn history.
@@jalapeno1119 But is that what pan is labeled as now? Just curious. I identify as pansexual-demisexual. The demisexual part being my range of sexual attraction in general, and the pansexual part is what I'm attracted to. The pansexual part is more of a "beyond gender" thing. Like a "idgaf what gender you are, just be a good person and we're good" thing. I absolutely do NOT separate trans people as a third gender since my sexual attraction doesn't need gender-centered attraction anyways. It's just fucking ridiculous in the first place and I think a lot of other pan people think that as well. I'd say that is more what pansexuality is nowadays, at least for me since I can't find any other label that could represent that part of my attraction. But then again, labels is just a way to define your identity and sexuality because the human brain wants to make everything more simple than it actually is.
@@witchyemmy8090 identify however you want I utilimitly do not care frl, but if I can share my opinion on this,
Its that by creating a new lable that distance itself from bi, saying its like bi but not gender-centrerd is assuming that bisexuals are gender-centered which you cant really because theres isnt one way to be bisexual imo
8:35 "Bisexuality as a non-binary sexuality"
Gotta say, I've never thought of it in that way, but it makes total sense to me!
I love this
This really soothes my bi heart 🥰 Not that I was doubting our inclusivity, but knowing that gender non-conformity and exploration has been part of our "agenda" since the beginning of bi activism, it feels great and good and wholesome 💜 especially since my feelings towards gender are getting more and more complex with time
so I'm now fully out as bi, and I don't understand why people assume I exclude trans men and women from who I'm attracted to. the closest thing I get to that is generally (but not always) am less attracted to trans men but I'm also less attracted to men in general and more attracted to women, trans or not. I did find one guy that I liked enough to get married to because we just work together, so now I'm apparently heterosexual despite being very attracted to women including trans women. that's an entirely other issue though.
thank you for this video and for your research!! I found it very validating
You're welcome, thanks for watching!
the assertion that bi = transphobic has always been ridiculous. i think it mostly comes down to an idealistic attack on the word itself and was extrapolated from there into a huge online argument.
Exactly
In conclusion: Bi people are the absolute coolest and people who insist they're not are clowns
ive never seen any media about bi history specifically. thank you!
There was a Bisexuals Community in Sydney Australia for many years during the 70/80. I have been a Transsexual for 45 years now and I find the American experience towards both Trans/Bi Communities very interesting. Also we had something that maybe unique to Australia but I miss the time when we had TransRoyals in the community. We Had Queens/Kings in our community for many years up until the Mid 90s.
The problem is that in my generation there's not many of us left anymore. With those of us left hitting our 5/6/70s there's a large amount of our history and Knowledge starting to disappear sadly. Because were getting Mature and or minds are starting to slip. Which is upsetting to us because a lot of Beautiful people in our Community will be forgotten about.
Hi, I'm a young transsexual Sydneysider, I rarely get to hear much of Sydney/Australian lgbt history, let alone of our trans history. I'd love to hear more about your experience if you'd be open to sharing!
@@TheAnimefreak2001 Yes I'd love to one day.
Your point from 8:40 onwards, especially 8:55 "bisexuality as a non-binary sexuality" omg I love it!
I don’t know if you’ve been to UK Trans Pride and the newer Bi Pride, but I went to both pre pandemic and it was crazy how many of the same people were at both events, and how Trans positive Bi pride felt. I feel like the two communities have an overlap
I decided to reject bi as a label for myself in favour of pan once I became aware of the level of adversity currently faced by trans people, to be more inclusive of them. Even more so once I realised myself as nonbinary.
But you know what?
I'm taking it back, and it's thanks to VerilyBitchie making me see what it's really about - so maybe I'm bi and pan and that's valid
As someone that identifies as Pan and has for years, its really dumb to think Bi people are trans/NB exclusionary. The main reason i ended up identifying as pan years ago was because i didnt want people to think i was trans/NB exclusionary (the sites id reasearched on made it seem like bi people only liked cis/trans men and women) but knowing more about the communities today, it honestly feels like we're the same sexuality. I dont know why so many people think Bisexuality is only cis inclusive. It really makes no sense.
Love you to all the Bi community and the pans, trans, non binary and all other LGBTQIA+ people that read this!!!❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Finding your videos, as a Bisexual who has never felt as if they've had a community, I feel like I have a community. These videos about Bisexuality and its relation to the past and present communities have already helped me come to an understanding I always felt but never could say properly. I am loving every different video, new and old, and I cant wait to make some art based on my new found Bi-ness!
I've identified as bisexual since 1993 the gen z people are cutting sexuality into such tiny slices and they've decided the bi in bisexuality stands for transphobia. So by their logic I should convert to being pansexual but to me this is just another word for bisexual, a less useful one because it's less known. I'm 41 and I haven't changed so I'm not changing my label. I'm totally fine with trans people and can be attracted to them and their bodies and I'm cool with treating people as they wish to be treated and not being limited to be binary. Bisexuality doesn't prevent this. All bisexuals just like heterosexual and homosexual people are different and find different people romantically and sexually attractive.
While genderqueer and non-binary are terms of this century, their have been similar terms in those of androgyny and others before these. I can even think of some early trans resources that referenced terms for non-binary resources under androgyny in the 90's.
I’m always so confused why some members of the queer community are so determined to send the message that bisexuals are transphobic. I don’t know where this association comes from or why it’s so strong. But it is ceaselessly frustrating as a bisexual to have to constantly try and debunk these myths.
I feel like this is really the result of a lack of older Bi and Trans People and Knowledge about the History of the communities on the internet and the way young people bred their own view on sexuality on tumblr without the knowledge about lived experience of the years prior..
I'm a transwoman. My body has traits of both. Someone being bi & attracted to me is like DUH I'm the best of both worlds lol.
this is so well spoken and well researched
In my experience in Chicago from the 1990 - the present the out bisexual people and transgender people often hung out together. I also experienced this in other cities.
I don’t know where the idea of transphobia in the bisexual community comes from. The only thing I can think of is the swinger community which accepted female bisexuality but not male bisexuality and was very gender normative.
But I actually hypothesize that the rumor is so ahistorical that it may have a more sinister origin. As if it was purposely created exactly at the same time that bisexual women and men were designated as officially real by science around 2011 and gaining more recognition in general. I think that many conservative straight and gay people have a lot at stake to make sure that bisexual activists don’t gain power in organizations. A good way to prevent this to divide the bisexual community. This is a hypothesis but there was rampant biphobia in the gay male community all my life and much was not mere innocent ignorance but proactive sabotage.
This video means so much to me!💖💜💙
Honestly aside from its latin roots it makes 100% sense that bisexuallity would be so open towards transgenderism. After all, are not people under the umbrella less concerned with what is actually in someone who they find attractives pants? Not to mention the fact that a bi person could very easily still be attracted to a partner throughout a medical transition far more easily than any of the singular sexualities.
Your channel is a treasure!!❤️
As a bisexual trans woman, I can say that I have never experienced transphobia from the bi community.
Proudly bisexual and nonbinary person here. Thank you for this wonderful video.
One of the bad apples in the pan community got in an argument with me being allegedly transphobic a while back. For saying I prefer masculine presenting people. I clearly laid out what I meant by this - 'butch' women cis or not, masculine presenting men cis or not, genderfluid or any manner of genders if they present more masculine.
Have only just found your channel and while I don't like sticking to any one label, I like aligning with bisexual just for the sake of a relatively like minded community. See you've got a ton of videos, including ones about bisexuality. One that I've seen before, apparently? Anyway your content is a treat, I'll be checking out more.
Super appreciate the inclusion of sources in the description!
It makes me incredibly mad that bisexuals are constantly expected to explicitly state that yes, we are attracted to nonbinary people as well. Like 1st of all, bro?? I'm bisexual, you really think nonbinary people is where I draw the line? And 2ndly straight and gay people can also be attracted to nonbinary and are they EVER expected to say anything like "ah yes I'm a straight man, I am attracted to women and nonbinary people" no! When they are attracted to someone nonbinary it just happens and no statement it needed. Granted I have seen instances where lesbians do say something along the lines of "I am attracted to women and nonbinary people", but my point is I'm tired of "bI mEanS TwO, yOu hATE n-b PeOPle" and even more so "Um actually bisexuality is exclusionary to (binary) trans people..." give me a break.
I LOVE THIS VIDEO. Thaaaaank you so much! I never see video adressing bisexual history and issues. Suscribing right now! :))
Yeah its just another biphobia thing
I am definitely saving this video for the next argument with some “bi means two, and that means no trans!” biphobe.
Also, that argument never made sense to me. You could reasonably say (were the definition of bisexuality to mean two and no more than two), that you’re excluding non binary people. That would make sense, if (big if) that were the definition of bisexuality. But it makes no sense to say that it excludes binary trans people. They fit into that two.
Of course, this is all academic, as bisexuality does not exclude non binary people. Two or more is my favoured definition.
I am sad that I can only put one like on this to show how much I appreciate this.
I cannot thank you enough for making videos like these!!
Thank you, it's really interesting to see how language changes just enough to create situation where it's too confusing to look back. I super appreciate your research and activism.
this is a great explanation and an even greater video. i've identified as bisexual for 5 years and i've never seen someone else explain my thoughts so well? definitely giving a sub. also youre really pretty :)
Calling it a non-binary sexuality really resonated with me. Great video!
I think this idea only became a thing among pansexual teens on the internet that wanted to feel superior to, comperatively more established, bisexuals
I'm bi, and trans, and never knew about this.
I just found your channel and it's amazing! Loved this video, thank you for making something I can send to people who have picked up this prejudice
You´re so pretty it hurts. Also, quite educational video. There is a common misconception here in Brazil`s queer community that bisexuals are inherently transphobic and Pansexuals are nice people.
Thank you for sharing your findings, your work is so important to our community. ❤
It's like people who identify as pansexual invented this narrative that bisexuality is inherently shallow or exclusionary or whatever to make their sexuality seem both inherently distinct and morally superior
I don't think there is a concrete difference between bisexuality and pansexuality, and I don't think that's an issue. Use whichever label for your identity you think fits you better, but don't put other people down to give yourself some sense of legitimacy
I think the other thing to keep in mind with that is that need to distance themselves to feel less slutty and thus more moral is a reaction to biphobia. People from mostly outside bi spaces made them feel like they were terrible for being bi and so they felt they couldn't or shouldn't use bi because of the connotations. Like this desperate need to be "the better version" of bi is just internalized biphobia.
❤❤❤ I love learning our history. Thank you so much for what you do.
I never thought of the bisexual community as a whole to be transphobic. But I have started calling myself bi/pan to make it clear to people that I’m open to anyone, no matter who they are. But now I’m understanding that...that’s not quite right because Bisexuality isn’t exclusionary to anyone.
I sometimes say I like all genders instead of I'm bi.
I never understood this either. It doesn’t make sense with respect to my own bisexuality or even seem to achieve basic self-consistency as an argument against us. I have encountered plenty of transphobic gays and lesbians, though.
I think part of the idea that the bisexual community might be transphobic comes from the way we use bi and pansexual interchangeably sometimes, and having misunderstandings as to what the terms mean. Several people have told me that as a bisexual, I couldn't be attracted to nonbinary people, and if I was then I was actually pan. The idea behind pansexuality is attraction to people for who they are instead of their gender, much like Elizabeth Reba Weise described bisexuality in 1992, likely before the term pansexual was popularized. I believe the term pansexual can be helpful when used to describe that specifically, but it's sometimes used interchangeably with bisexual, which has lead some people to the conclusion that bisexuals can't be attracted to all genders because that's what pansexuality is, which is a misunderstanding of both bi and pansexuality.
Every time I watch one of your videos, I am astounded that you are so very smart, because how can someone be this cool. Aaahh!
I just discovered your channel and I’m going through your videos. I have to say that lip color is so pretty.
1:50 as a trans individual, yeah cis people do kinda prove they’re willing to learn and grow etc through their actions and all that but like... that’s Mano e Mano kinda thing you know? And for me it doesn’t matter whether you’re part of any LGBT+ community if you’re not trans I have to see more often that openness and willingness. But that’s just for my own safety and peace of mind? I don’t think the whole community needs to prove this sort of thing if the overall consensus is that trans people can be bi and welcome?
Maybe the real “inherent transphobia” was the friend we made along the way
Knew I was bi at twelve but didn't have the words to explain it, came out at thirteen. Realised I was experiencing gender dysphoria at nine, realised I was nonbinary at fifteen, denied it before coming out at seventeen. Never looked back ☺️❤️
Personally, I feel, as a bisexual, that those on the non binary spectrum are possibly more attractive to me as i find it far more validating and it sends me into less of a bisexual crisis where i feel like a part of me is left out.
As a pansexual who first identified as bisexual, the idea that we're "less transphobic" always kind of baffled and pissed me off because like, 1, wouldn't they be specifically non binaryphobic???? Cause trans men and women still fit in the gender binary?? But even then, like obviously not???? Gender has always been incredibly fluid and while they're weren't always this many people aware of a lot of peoples labels, why would it be different??? Like I've never heard of any bi people (in general, obviously there are ppl in every demographic who are bigoted assholes, but, yk) being 100% unattractive to non binary people?? Like????? People really hate multi spectrum sexualities for absolutely no reason
Thank you for this video! 👏🏻💜
I realize I'm late to this party but as a non-op pangender femme, I have encountered transphobia around bisexual non-monogamy, as opposed to it being a facet of bisexuality itself, and I wonder if experiences like mine have reinforced this idea of bisexuality being transphobic.
The situation I so commonly see is where a bisexual woman is in a relationship with a heterosexual cisgender male. Yes, we're talking about the unicorn hunters. I think transphobia in tinder-era dating is more common that in the rest of the bisexual world.
Anyhow, just my extremely late thoughts. Great video!
Hearts to you! ❤
top notch stuff right here!!! just found your channel and I'm loving it
As a nonbinary bisexual thank you
Some gays I’ve come out to have called me a very supportive ally since I’m mostly into the opposite gender😭😭
Sounds like some people are more concerned with atimology than with how people actually think or define themselves.
bisexual transvestite here. My gender is male, my sex is male, my clothes were tailored for a woman. transvestite literally means the other person's clothes. I am valid.
I think bisexual is best understood by it's inclusive definition as well as an umbrella term for easy communication in short conversations. I often label myself as bi even though omni is more accurate.
yesssss this this this
as far i know omni is like a way to say that u have preferences right?
@@pelotudasincerebro5399 The idea is that pan people love all genders and gender isn't a concern at all, whilst for omni people we love all genders but someone's gender can be meaningful to how we feel about the person. That can manifest as preferences, but it doesn't have to.
Not necesaarily a perfect indicator of not being transphobic, but bi people on average are way more comfortable dating a trans person than gays/lesbians or straights
Thank you very much for your very beautiful video.
Thank you for making this really informative and educational video