Respect you guys are still tuning 3800's, Wish GM still had those available in modern cars, Miss my 40th anniversary GTP. Thing ripped with the zzp tune
I recently just had to drive my pacecar and the power wasnt what i remebered after feeling a tuned lnf. Great platforms to work on tho compared to most.
@@ianscheurer that was pretty much the weak point with that platform. I cant believe they still used the same transmission in the LS4 cars as well. Pair it up with a nice 6 speed or a stronger auto trans.
I'd add in a little meth on top of that intercooler and bump the timing up a tad 🤘. You said that's the party pulley. Let's party brother lol. Love it man. That's my favorite color grand prix too 👌. That exhaust note is an absolute WIN. even if there where no gains to be had. That alone is worth it after years of sounding like chain saws, you guys finally made something for us to sound clean. Well done 🤘
Just picked up a 1998 GTP, high mileage but in good condition, for $1,200. I own cars that are a lot quicker but the GTP is really fun to drive. Just installed the fenderwell intake from you guys. I'll be doing more shopping soon
Ryan just released a video that talked about the Eaton M90 efficiency range being 7-9lbs of boost, yet these guys are pushing it up past 12lbs? I don't understand, could ZZP explain?
The science behind it is above that range the blower generates more heat so you get diminishing returns. This is negated on an intercooled car as the intercooler can remove in excess of 100 degrees of intake air temp.
@@joeyf8368 Bingo. There's a reason they got the nickname "heatons." Much like some tunes pushing the 1.4 turbos to over 20 pounds of boost on a stock cruze/sonic, you're so far outside the efficiency range that the temps are getting stupid high.
if I upgrade the rods, pistons, piston rings, rocker arms, pushrods, valves, and headstuds, would a 270k+ mile 1998 grand prix Daytona pace car with the 3800 supercharger, would the block be able to handle the power? and ofcourse replace all gaskets too
Why would you need to upgrade any of that? These engines have ran deep into the 8's in the 1/4 mile with 100% stock bottom end. They're strong as hell.
Based on scans, nothing. Although, like mentioned in my comment above we'll be doing a proper A/B test on Zoomer's car here soon. This video was more meant to showcase the sound of the equalizer. It sounds great in video but even better in person
@JPL Performance Honestly, not enough to worry about. 3" is overkill for 99.9% of cars. We didn't have to jump up to a 3.5" downpipe on our 2.0 LSJ that made 898whp until about 600whp. Zoom's car runs a 2.5" catback that necks down to 2.25" after the rear axle. My turbo Ion Redline made 408whp on a 100% fully stock catback a few years ago. Exhaust size doesn't matter as much as people make it seem.
@@gbrunner24 exactly. People put a 3 in exhaust on a stock Honda Civic and think they're making it fast when really all they're doing is making it sound like shit.
My Guess Was 325WHP After Hearing Mods! It Would Have Made It If The Blower Could Push Out 12lbs hahaha. That Equalizer Pipe Has Me Curious On How It Sounds In Person. I Like The Stock 3800 Sound. This Probably Makes It Sound Like An Import. I Miss My Turbo Monte Carlo. Thing Was Making 480WHP With 210,000 Miles, Cam, ZZP Front And Rear Logs, 80# Injectors, Water Meth, Blocked Off M90 And On A Unstable Fuel System. The Unstable Fuel System Finally Caught Up To Me And Melted 2 Pistons Top Of 3rd Gear At 150MPH LMAO. (Don't Use The Stock Fuel Pressure Regualtor Above 300WHP lol) She's Been Down 9 Months 😢. Short Block Is Ready But Still Been Waiting On My Cylinder Heads To Be CNC Ported In Indiana. Also Milzy Is Making The Turbo Hot Side. The ZZP Logs Keep Cracking On Me Like Crazy (They Crack Around All The Welds On The Flanges) And That Stupid Donut Gasket Never Seals If Dealing With Turbos And The Added Back Pressure Between Heads And Turbo. The ZZP Logs Will Not Give You Issues Unless Your Turboed.
So Ryan d says don't pulley up if your mods dont support it, but this video says otherwise. My concern is that this video is just trying to get me to spend my money. Im interested were this goes. Like zzp for filling the gaps in the performance market.
We understand the confusion. Fortunately the mods on this 3800 allow us to run a smaller pulley. It has a full-stack intercooler, bolt-ons, E85, and an XP Camshaft. As Ryan said, you want to match the proper pulley to your build and for this build we needed a 2.6 to achieve the desired boost.
Teat this product on a bone stock m90 setup. Not a xp with major overlap- a xp cam is not a simple setup for most. Nor does it give us any info what a 3800 can do. Show us stock #upgrades because with that setup u should be better than 310hp
This car has been through multiple revisions of prototype equalizers over the past 8 months. The equalizer took a bit more time to develop than we thought, but we'll put together a great A/B test on Zoomer's car here in the near future 😉
You weren't "Out of Blower", you were "Out of Intake". A Common misconception about Roots. All you're doing is just increasing the pressure of the same volume(Mass) of air. The more air you can get INTO the blower the more power you will make. You can crank the PSI all day long but if you don't get more air mass in to it, you're not doing a damn thing. There's a reason why Weiand blower guys use a big ass throttle opening on top fuel cars.
I have to say this is NOT (I repeat NOT) a “basic build”. Anything with a cam/intercooler/springs/e85/2.8 pulley,,,, I’d say is on the verge of a highly modded engine. Since the 90’s everyone I’ve known considers a mild build is intake/header/exhaust/tune/ slightly smaller pulley. And what I don’t get is it seems like people contradict each other. I thought “you never should rub anything smaller than a 3.4”. This is coming from “other people” there. It’s like no one agrees. I do LOVE your build and I have the parts for a “mild” build, but am waiting for exhaust and power logs or headers.
Yeah there's a little confusion but let me try to clarify some things. 1. Trying to run a too small of pulley kills power because the supercharger gets out of its efficiency range. Anytime a supercharger or turbo gets out of its efficiency range, it starts blowing extremely hot air. Hot air means a big PSI number, but in reality it's just hot air. Think of 90 PSI in a semi truck tire vs 90 PSI in a bicycle tire. Now technically they're both read "90 PSI" on a gauge, but the volume of air in the two is tremendously different. Beyond that, hot air is less dense than cooler air. Less dense = less oxygen, less oxygen = less power. 2. Hot air = detonation. Superheated air will easily combust, which is bad because the air/fuel mixture will combust before it should in the cylinder. This is called detonation, or spark knock. Luckily, GM engineers knew this would happen so they have what's called a "knock sensor". This is a little sensor that detects spark knock and tells the ECU to pull timing. The problem is when the ECU pulls timing, it pulls horsepower. So now all that horsepower you just spent a lot of money on for that under size pulley, the ECU just pulled out of your engine! See, less timing = less power. Less power = less heat and less heat = less detonation. So now you understand why it's not good to "crank up the boost" so to speak, but why is this car getting away with it? Couple reasons. First this car is running e85. E85 has the octane equivalent of about 103-105. This significantly decreases the chance of detonation. 2nd, this car is running an intercooler. The intercooler can lower intake temperature by over 100°F which furthermore reduced chance of detonation. Finally this car is fully modded to take advantage of the boost including but not limited to: a low restrictive exhaust, cold air intake, 180° thermostat, cooler spark plugs, and safe tuning.
Smaller pulley is not always the best answer. It's all about finding the best pulley for the efficiency range of the blower and your setup. Typically going too small on the pulley size will bump the HP a few but give you some more torque. With that though comes more heat. This is why I'm sticking to a stock pulley on my LSJ build. Less heat, more reliable power and I can run a ton more timing out the top end.
Let’s all take a second to appreciate ZZP going to Area 51 and fighting off the corona-virus to bring us the equalizer downpipe.
Comment of the week! 😂
ive been waiting for headers to come back in stock for over a year.....
Respect you guys are still tuning 3800's, Wish GM still had those available in modern cars, Miss my 40th anniversary GTP. Thing ripped with the zzp tune
Just like LS small blocks they continued on. 3800 should’ve did the same. 3800 Series IV 295Hp, 354TQ lol jk.
I recently just had to drive my pacecar and the power wasnt what i remebered after feeling a tuned lnf. Great platforms to work on tho compared to most.
They wouldve had to pair em up to good transmissions if they continued
@@ianscheurer that was pretty much the weak point with that platform. I cant believe they still used the same transmission in the LS4 cars as well. Pair it up with a nice 6 speed or a stronger auto trans.
Ive always been obsessed with the GTP pontiacs. Super cool. I had an 04 impala SS for a little while and loved it
I have one now I just bought and I LOVE it. Such a great car to daily
OK. But how does it do on a basic bolt on 3800. Not all of us have E85 or an Innercooler
I wasn't aware you could run full power mods on the equalizer because of the size. NICE!
With the equalizer these 3800s sound better than my 3.5 ecoboost!
They both used to sound like shit but now just your Ford does haha
A comparison between a Gen3 and Gen5 with the same pulley would be awesome! And it sounds like this car would be a perfect candidate haha
I cant wait to party with parts from you guys on my ssei, already have your ignition coils, they work a treat
I'd add in a little meth on top of that intercooler and bump the timing up a tad 🤘. You said that's the party pulley. Let's party brother lol. Love it man. That's my favorite color grand prix too 👌. That exhaust note is an absolute WIN. even if there where no gains to be had. That alone is worth it after years of sounding like chain saws, you guys finally made something for us to sound clean. Well done 🤘
I love those washers on the pulley
Are you guys opening up soon? Would like to get some tunes and such for my car since I cannot do it from home!
Just picked up a 1998 GTP, high mileage but in good condition, for $1,200. I own cars that are a lot quicker but the GTP is really fun to drive. Just installed the fenderwell intake from you guys. I'll be doing more shopping soon
Awesome. Looks like Downstar beauty washers
Ryan just released a video that talked about the Eaton M90 efficiency range being 7-9lbs of boost, yet these guys are pushing it up past 12lbs? I don't understand, could ZZP explain?
I was thinking the same thing.
The science behind it is above that range the blower generates more heat so you get diminishing returns. This is negated on an intercooled car as the intercooler can remove in excess of 100 degrees of intake air temp.
@@joeyf8368 Bingo. There's a reason they got the nickname "heatons." Much like some tunes pushing the 1.4 turbos to over 20 pounds of boost on a stock cruze/sonic, you're so far outside the efficiency range that the temps are getting stupid high.
@@joeyf8368 ok, thanks for clarifying. I must've gotten fixated on the crossover and didn't notice the intercooler.
Yea sign me up for those bolts
Man this thing sounds strong 💪!!!
No Step On Snek
I’m trying to have this same set up. What fuel injectors and fuel pump did you use?
Yes I want them on my 3.4 supercharger pulley ( red pulley bults)
if I upgrade the rods, pistons, piston rings, rocker arms, pushrods, valves, and headstuds, would a 270k+ mile 1998 grand prix Daytona pace car with the 3800 supercharger, would the block be able to handle the power? and ofcourse replace all gaskets too
asking because I just bought one?
Why would you need to upgrade any of that? These engines have ran deep into the 8's in the 1/4 mile with 100% stock bottom end. They're strong as hell.
How much power is it losing compared to running the power logs with the normal crossover?
Based on scans, nothing. Although, like mentioned in my comment above we'll be doing a proper A/B test on Zoomer's car here soon.
This video was more meant to showcase the sound of the equalizer. It sounds great in video but even better in person
@JPL Performance Honestly, not enough to worry about. 3" is overkill for 99.9% of cars. We didn't have to jump up to a 3.5" downpipe on our 2.0 LSJ that made 898whp until about 600whp. Zoom's car runs a 2.5" catback that necks down to 2.25" after the rear axle.
My turbo Ion Redline made 408whp on a 100% fully stock catback a few years ago. Exhaust size doesn't matter as much as people make it seem.
@@gbrunner24 exactly. People put a 3 in exhaust on a stock Honda Civic and think they're making it fast when really all they're doing is making it sound like shit.
Is that a gen 3 supercharger? Ported?
Have you guys ever tried a blower off a GT500?
Nice numbers👍
My Guess Was 325WHP After Hearing Mods! It Would Have Made It If The Blower Could Push Out 12lbs hahaha. That Equalizer Pipe Has Me Curious On How It Sounds In Person. I Like The Stock 3800 Sound. This Probably Makes It Sound Like An Import. I Miss My Turbo Monte Carlo. Thing Was Making 480WHP With 210,000 Miles, Cam, ZZP Front And Rear Logs, 80# Injectors, Water Meth, Blocked Off M90 And On A Unstable Fuel System. The Unstable Fuel System Finally Caught Up To Me And Melted 2 Pistons Top Of 3rd Gear At 150MPH LMAO. (Don't Use The Stock Fuel Pressure Regualtor Above 300WHP lol) She's Been Down 9 Months 😢. Short Block Is Ready But Still Been Waiting On My Cylinder Heads To Be CNC Ported In Indiana. Also Milzy Is Making The Turbo Hot Side. The ZZP Logs Keep Cracking On Me Like Crazy (They Crack Around All The Welds On The Flanges) And That Stupid Donut Gasket Never Seals If Dealing With Turbos And The Added Back Pressure Between Heads And Turbo. The ZZP Logs Will Not Give You Issues Unless Your Turboed.
When will they be back in stock?
So Ryan d says don't pulley up if your mods dont support it, but this video says otherwise.
My concern is that this video is just trying to get me to spend my money. Im interested were this goes.
Like zzp for filling the gaps in the performance market.
We understand the confusion. Fortunately the mods on this 3800 allow us to run a smaller pulley. It has a full-stack intercooler, bolt-ons, E85, and an XP Camshaft. As Ryan said, you want to match the proper pulley to your build and for this build we needed a 2.6 to achieve the desired boost.
@@ZZPerformanceChannelCan I get a list of mods for a reference point.
Thanks again for the great products.
So how much power was gained with the equalizer is my question tho .
Teat this product on a bone stock m90 setup. Not a xp with major overlap- a xp cam is not a simple setup for most. Nor does it give us any info what a 3800 can do. Show us stock #upgrades because with that setup u should be better than 310hp
Ryan Wahlstrom that's exactly wat I was thinking. Where is the hp. 310hp seems low with those mods
I see spark knock out the exhaust?
Is that what the puffs of smoke were during the pull?
Yes, that's spark knock. Hopefully they got its out while tuning
Hey bo i have a stock 98 gtp i need help making it faster
Hey how'd I get those washers?
Equalizer on a “stock” wbody 👀
No baseline pulls before equalizer...
This car has been through multiple revisions of prototype equalizers over the past 8 months. The equalizer took a bit more time to develop than we thought, but we'll put together a great A/B test on Zoomer's car here in the near future 😉
Buick lesabre guy here for this
Will this fit the LeSabre?
does this have a resonator on it?
Yep! Full resonator, 400 cell catalytic converter and our ZZP 3 inch catback.
@@ZZPerformanceChannel I would love to here what the equalizer setup sounds like without a stupid resonator
Not bad
Can you get over a 1000hp with a gtp
Shu rthe duck up
@@ianscheurer duck up to 1000hp you can ok
Here for the SC washers...Ha
What was the baseline dyno run before the equalizer?
See my comment up above to @styles707
@@gbrunner24 thanks
You weren't "Out of Blower", you were "Out of Intake". A Common misconception about Roots. All you're doing is just increasing the pressure of the same volume(Mass) of air. The more air you can get INTO the blower the more power you will make. You can crank the PSI all day long but if you don't get more air mass in to it, you're not doing a damn thing. There's a reason why Weiand blower guys use a big ass throttle opening on top fuel cars.
I have to say this is NOT (I repeat NOT) a “basic build”. Anything with a cam/intercooler/springs/e85/2.8 pulley,,,, I’d say is on the verge of a highly modded engine.
Since the 90’s everyone I’ve known considers a mild build is intake/header/exhaust/tune/ slightly smaller pulley.
And what I don’t get is it seems like people contradict each other. I thought “you never should rub anything smaller than a 3.4”. This is coming from “other people” there. It’s like no one agrees. I do LOVE your build and I have the parts for a “mild” build, but am waiting for exhaust and power logs or headers.
Yeah there's a little confusion but let me try to clarify some things. 1. Trying to run a too small of pulley kills power because the supercharger gets out of its efficiency range. Anytime a supercharger or turbo gets out of its efficiency range, it starts blowing extremely hot air. Hot air means a big PSI number, but in reality it's just hot air. Think of 90 PSI in a semi truck tire vs 90 PSI in a bicycle tire. Now technically they're both read "90 PSI" on a gauge, but the volume of air in the two is tremendously different. Beyond that, hot air is less dense than cooler air. Less dense = less oxygen, less oxygen = less power. 2. Hot air = detonation. Superheated air will easily combust, which is bad because the air/fuel mixture will combust before it should in the cylinder. This is called detonation, or spark knock. Luckily, GM engineers knew this would happen so they have what's called a "knock sensor". This is a little sensor that detects spark knock and tells the ECU to pull timing. The problem is when the ECU pulls timing, it pulls horsepower. So now all that horsepower you just spent a lot of money on for that under size pulley, the ECU just pulled out of your engine! See, less timing = less power. Less power = less heat and less heat = less detonation. So now you understand why it's not good to "crank up the boost" so to speak, but why is this car getting away with it? Couple reasons. First this car is running e85. E85 has the octane equivalent of about 103-105. This significantly decreases the chance of detonation. 2nd, this car is running an intercooler. The intercooler can lower intake temperature by over 100°F which furthermore reduced chance of detonation. Finally this car is fully modded to take advantage of the boost including but not limited to: a low restrictive exhaust, cold air intake, 180° thermostat, cooler spark plugs, and safe tuning.
I have this car in 4 door
Should've used a 2.7 pulley..
You made 306 with the 3.0 and only 310 with the 2.6? How does that make any sense
Smaller pulley is not always the best answer. It's all about finding the best pulley for the efficiency range of the blower and your setup. Typically going too small on the pulley size will bump the HP a few but give you some more torque. With that though comes more heat.
This is why I'm sticking to a stock pulley on my LSJ build. Less heat, more reliable power and I can run a ton more timing out the top end.
No bad m.t.f
A zzp car with a Gen 3 blower?!?!?