Bible Scholar Dr. Richard C. Miller Leaves Christianity
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2024
- Bible Scholar Dr. Richard C. Miller Leaves Christianity
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This is the story about how Dr. Richard C. Miller left Christianity.
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"Christianity is just one participant in a broader set of phenomenology that needed to be understood across the board, and not just studied in some kind of isolationism." Very well said, Dr. Miller.
For those who insist upon a purely Jewish origin of Christianity, it must be said that they are far too narrow and, frankly, ignorant in their approach, missing one half of the historical equation. Early Christianity was a hybridic and heavily syncretistic phenomenon, like so much else in the Hellenistic world--a Greco-Judaic synthesis of cross-pollinating ideas. In Christ, we have a new Romulus, a new Caesar, a new Asclepius, even a new mystery god, every bit as much as we have a new Moses or Elijah.
Dr. Miller astutely situates the early Christ narrative within the context of Greco-Roman apotheosis, with all its attendant tropes, e.g., missing body, deification, post-mortem appearances, heavenly exaltation, the whole nine yards. It is the height of special pleading to suggest that this one translation fable is historically true, contra all the rest from that same general time and place in history.
What an absolute treat to see how this great scholar evolved and transitioned from his early fundamentalism! An emotional story, to boot! I am thrilled and excited to finally see him receive the exposure and notoriety that he very much deserves, and I cannot wait to see where it leads from here! Thanks for sharing, Derek!
Damn... Well said!
This works if you presume the entire empty tomb narrative literally began with Mark. I don’t find the arguments that he personally invented it all that convincing. It’s entirely plausible and logical that Christ groups spread and retained the memory of a singular historical event that informed a foundational belief that Jesus, the Jew who died among Jews in Jerusalem, was the “first fruits” of a very Jewish resurrection. It’s a chicken-or-egg situation for which we’ll never have a satisfactory answer with the evidence currently available to us.
I'm no biblical scholar, but why would the purported creator of the universe inseminate a mortal woman, rather than just doing what he allegedly did with Adam, who he molded out of dust? Or, seeing that he was supposedly omnipotent, surely he could have just magicked Jesus into existence, without the dust? And what about Jesus not inheriting a Y chromosome? Presumably, Zeus had a Y chromosome, but that’s not what sophisticated theologians claim for Yahweh. Why did Yahweh, with a stunning lack of imagination, copy the method used by Zeus to father a son, known to us as the demigod Heracles, (aka Hercules)? Bear in mind that the Jews of this time were Hellenized, so, more prosaically, was it just an unsophisticated, mythopoeic theologian who thought, if it worked for Zeus and Heracles, then it should be good for Yahweh and Jesus? 🤣🤣🤣
@@Jd-808 empty tomb? seriously? lol there are thousands of "empty tombs" all over the world. I can go make you one if you want. there 's absolutely no reason to credit one old story about a supposedly empty tomb.
@@scambammer6102I’m not talking about plausibility of the framing or interpretation of it. Just saying I don’t think a missing body can be dismissed as a real historical possibility. As far as I know Miller is one of very few scholars to argue there wasn’t initially a belief in a physical resurrection. Under that assumption the empty tomb becomes best viewed as “translation fable”, too coincidental to be believed. But without that assumption, it’s not unreasonable to think a historical “empty tomb event” informed the resurrection belief.
Being very deep into Christianity can lead to atheism.
*Joshua 10.12-13; 20* “On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord: 'Sun, *STAND STILL* over Gibeon, and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.' So the *Sun* _STOOD STILL,_ and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies . . . So Joshua and the Israelites defeated them completely, but a few survivors managed to reach their fortified cities.”
@@user-k4d-e59mo28oc are you saying that God is the sun?
Idk..?
What would I qualify as?
I don't go to church but I have been a Christian pretty much all my life.
I had a pretty wild experience about 2 years ago where to speak bluntly, either an angel or God set their hand on me and I felt like my entire body got lit up like a light bulb and at the same time I felt totally filled with joy. This sensation was not comparable to being happy or being really really happy.. or having the warm fuzzies. No, this was deer in the headlights, completely unearthly. So intense I thought I could be dying at that moment, I did not know what was going on.
So when I see people lose their faith so easily, I would suggest to them that their faith was in a man made construct and they wasted their energy appealing to a communities ideals rather than searching out what the Spirit of God truly is.
If you cannot experience that God is real, perhaps you can at least conclude that God is good. The ultimate stage of believe is to realize that God is not only real AND good but also extremely valuable to anyone that desires Him. Not in the sense that people find temporary solitude but as a spiritual life source. God is less like your neighbor Jim and more like the oxygen your neighbor Jim breathes.
You should consider also that, many Christians are not God's and of the ones that are, we do not make a big fuss over it because we are quite distant from having the fullness of that value that God offers all of us. If someone wants to abandon God because they think life is more valuable without Him. In what way? It certainly seems that both the religious and the falling away can carry their own delusions and flatteries.
@@danielbrowniel I totally agree with this.
I respect a person who is intellectual enough to look within and find where their ideology and dogma fails.
Way to go Dr. Miller!
Looking within will be the main purpose of the coming Aquarian Age. We have to find the god spark within and evolve with creativity and learning until we merge totally with God consciousness and become co creators of god but maintaining our own individuality.
Religions with all their dogmas will slowly go away. it will probably take some time for all to catch up though.
@@ingehansonI am truly concerned about Artificial Intelligence.
@@justbenice72 Really, here's what Chatgpt wrote when I asked about *Joshua 10.12-13; 20* . . . “On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord: 'Sun, *STAND STILL* over Gibeon, and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.' So the *sun* _STOOD STILL,_ and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies . . . So Joshua and the Israelites defeated them completely, but a few survivors managed to reach their fortified cities.”
The most freeing event of my life is when my wife and I left the Hebrew roots cult and Cult of Christianity. Life is so much better! Once you actually study the scriptures in depth and find where they actually are derived, it’s like being released from the matrix..
I know the feeling. I'm closer to the Source than ever before. True infinite Creator does not need to be worshipped or served. All the religions of the world are created to enslave humanity and cut us off of our true Origin.
To be stuck in the worldly matrix?
You figured out for yourself that the New Testament is actually Greek?
Christianity is not cult like at all lol you are confusing it with islam
Cult.?? And you have freedom of choice
I really enjoyed following Dr Miller's personal path. The insights and outcomes are usually where I point my spotlight in these talks but the honesty and sincere personal moments that accompanied his development really helped me appreciate his earnest pursuit of the truth. Thank you!
I found the true love of God after deconstructing mormonism and religion in general. I find it so much easier not to do anything harmful to myself and to others, not because of fear of anything but because of love and gratitude. As I was driving yesterday I suddenly started to cry because I felt inside a feeling of happiness and joy for no reason... I realized that I have turned the corner and left a life of suffering behind.
This needs to be 1-2 hours long. We were just getting warmed up!
I totally loved this interview! More Dr Miller please!
The problem with many de-conversions is the danger of flipping into more all or nothing, black and white thinking. Where are the nuances? The gray tones. I would rather hear “I really don’t know” rather than vehement atheism as if ANYONE really knows anything for sure. My de-conversion started when I asked my favorite friend and minister, ”What is REALLY going on?!” He humbly said “I really don’t know. Here, read this text book by Bart Erhman” . What a GIFT !(even though I had to give that very EXPENSIVE text book back eventually. He taught courses on bible as literature) and comparative religion.) What a true friend!
Enlightened Ignorance, I know what I don't know, a term I learned in Freshman philosophy course.
Please, consider one thing: to most atheists, atheism is just a personal position. I can't find in myself any interest in believing in gods. It is not contempt, it's lack of interest. I am interested in people who believe or have believed for this very reason: "how can one intelligent person fall for this?" is my thought. Now, clearly very intelligent people do believe in gods and I am not saying that all believers are stupid or gullible. But it's just so alien to me. There are a few atheists that are also livid towards religions, and they are usually the ex believers who have been hurt by one religion. Most of us, though, just express a personal position: "I do not believe".
There is no gray area. God doesn't kinda exists, or maybe or I'm not sure. The illogical bad thinking of the Bible and the silly magic prove that.
How many PhD scientists have left "evolution" for Young Earth Creationism ?
TELL US WHAT THEY SAY
As I like to say, the rapture is really happening: We can see that Christians are starting to disappear.
Good one!
Hahah very true!
@@ShamikaCrouch that comment is something knows as “a joke”.
Dam.....I'm christian but that is a good one.
I can't stop laughing
🤣🤣🤣That made my day
This was an excellent interview! I I appreciate so much the openness and honesty given to the audience. Thank you!
🥱
Fantastic interview!!!!
Thank you for this.
I love his honesty and not being afraid to show his vulnerability.
A man of great integrity.
Not only a great scholar but also a beautiful human being.
Truly moved me!
Thanks again.
not really he is clueless as to what Jesus really said
john 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; *no one will snatch them out of my hand*.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand
@@raysalmon6566
Why should I care about what it says in the Bible?
@@fpcoleman57 you are held accountable to what the Bible says and you will be Judged by it
@@raysalmon6566
Utter nonsense.
It's just a book. It doesn't have any magical powers.
@@fpcoleman57 you need specific examples
Ryan McDougald They most certainly did.
lInasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things that have been accomplished among us, 2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us, 3 it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 that you may have certainty concerning the things you have
been taught. They wrote an historical account about the life and ministry of the Jesus Christ.his-tory
1. the study of past events, particularly in human
affairs.
noun
By the time I was 12 years old, I had made up my mind to become a priest (Catholic). I was an altar boy, went to confession each Saturday, took communion each Sunday at mass, and overall, could not wait to become a priest. Then one Sunday, the priest gave a sermon during mass and talked about how it was in hell. He talked about all the punishments that were "due" a sinner, and, overall, described hell in the most horrific way and caused me to become even more willing to follow the Lord and be the best priest I could be. After mass I started thinking: how does the priest know about hell? Who told him about it? How did he know all the details of how the devil punished sinners. I started having questions about all this. I started questioning about the teachings I was hearing in school -how did Satan make it to paradise and tempt Adam and Eve? Wasn't God aware of this? Anyway as time went by, I began to question more and more of the teachings I was getting. By the time I graduated high school and started going to college, I really became a skeptic and stopped going to church, taking communion and lost my faith. I am now 76 years old and consider myself an agnostic-atheist. Like Dr. Miller, I have realized that all religions are based on fables, cults, fantasies and cultural myths.
@gandalfthewise5015 I do not understand the hoops you have jumped too. He said it was the first spark that made him start asking questions. I do not know what your native language is so perhaps you just did not manage to grasp the things he said. Or perhaps you just read it with pure intellectual dishonesty in your heart.
If you read past the priest's preaching you would have gotten to the point where he started to ask questions about the other stuff he was reading too.
He obviously did not just base his world view on one event. It caused him to slowly move his construction site from fictional sand, to the solid ground of truth. At least to where he could build his world view on the most solid and true foundation he was able to.
To use your analogy, it be a bit as if he had grown up being told that all black people are dumb demonic animals who can turn invisible and and want to do horrible things to you. And then one day he heard someone talk about black people and an aspect of invisible they can be when they hide your phone or keys for example. However something about the claims of the black people did not sit quite right with him. So over the next years of his life he started questioning the claims more and more, he tried talking to and interacting with black people to see if they are really as bad as claimed. And in the end found out that, they are actually not meaningfully different from other people all and the original claims where at best twisting of truth and almost entirely fictitious nonsense.
Now he realize that all racism...
Why am I even wasting my time. If the original comment was twisted though crappy intentions and bad faith despite being so easy to understand. What chance to my blabbering has no chance of getting though.
@Gandalf TheWise You are pathetic.
@Gandalf TheWise Why are you so defensive?
When I was 12 I couldn't make my mind up about what breakfast cereal to eat.
We probably shouldn't be making big life altering decisions at 12 😂
try that with Islam , good luck !!
I finally learned that I was not so much a "believer" (a term deliberately used to denote positive vibes) as much as i was BRAINWASHED!
Yes, same. Believe, or else!! so sad.
Dr. Richard C. Miller's deconversion from Christianity is a powerful testament to the strength of his intellect and critical thinking skills. As a Classicist and New Testament scholar, he brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to the table, and his insights have challenged long-held beliefs and sparked important conversations within the academic community. His journey away from religion is a brave and inspiring one, and serves as a reminder that it is never too late to question our assumptions and search for truth. Dr. Miller's scholarship is truly amazing, and we are fortunate to have his wisdom and expertise to guide us on our own intellectual journeys.
Drop a comment to let Dr. Miller know how amazing his story is.
He wouldn't know the "truth" if it bit him in the ass.......much like you .
Going to "school" and being brainwashed by a system of intellectual idiots does not make a person TRULY "wise"....
it grants them a title of false "authority" and makes them "wise in their own deceit " .
Literally never heard of him.
Just ask Socrates: No amount of intellect or college degrees can attain wisdom. And intelligence without wisdom is like a boat without water; it won't take you anywhere that's truly worth going. But you can pretend that it does, so long as you can keep the flesh alive. And that's also what false "Christians" do, while they go to the polls and vote anti-Christ (Trump-publican). Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies in these "end times."
Dr. Miller entered the WRONG DOOR to the WRONG rabbit hole.
People lose their FAITH because they study RELIGION.
That's like a chemist declaring that chemistry is not true because the chemist student study PIANO LESONS at the "Wonderful chemistry of music University"
@Gandalf TheWise If they "had something existentially profound and deep to offer as an alternative." Seems like a purely subjective standard to impose - so they need to offer an alternative religion? If one discovers that the natural world is all there is, that all this religious stuff is nonsense, do we then have to invent something "deep to offer" so that the truth will seem "better" somehow?
When a person gives up religion you see a radiance of clarity and independent thought.
A certain group of people turned it into a religion when it wasn't meant to be. It is about a group of people and their God.
Hahaha he left God because his wife left him and diversity and man's education as he said it is the key for unbelief
@@Truthhurts224 Well said.
How does a person justify their moral position on a case by case basis once they’ve moved away from a traditional religious textual foundation? In homosexuality for example. How does a person who had followed the traditional interpretation of religiously acceptable sexual behaviour justify a move to a post-modern moral position on human sexuality, and does abandonment of religion mean that a person by default will abandon the attached moral beliefs and automatically adopt post-modern moral alternatives?
Yes, independent thoughts distancing your security from God is what the Father of the Darkness wants for you. That's what Illuminati is all about.
This feels so much like a Part 1 that needs a Part 2...hoping to hear more from Dr. Miller!
My personal epiphany happened way back in 1963 when I was just a sophomore in high school. Leaving the Catholic confessional booth behind was my first giant step to leaving the mumbo-jumbo of Catholic practice and those absurd costumes worn by the professionals and the women “married” to Jesus. Haven’t missed all that stuff to the current date.
I grew up Baptist but went to catholic school for eighth grade. A high ranking cardinal or bishop visited our school and anyone that was catholic kissed his ring as he sat in the throne like chair. I found that disturbing back then.
What has the Roman Catholic Church got to do with Christianity?
@@fredgillespie5855 not much
Yeh..family was italian catholic background but not myself. The BS ( especially the cinfessiin booth!) I see all organized religions as man made cults$. No labels for me.
Nothing new here; has always been under debate. The scrutiny eventually led to the Reformation and more debate.
I can imagine mythvision one hundred years ago writing in isolation to no one.
Starting out with the No true Scotsman I hate getting that. They don't realize how committed some of us were. It was my entire life.
I wonder whether they’re even considering it. The no-true-Christian fallacy may be just a knee-jerk repetition of 1 John 2:19
@@scienceexplains302 It's a defense mechanism. If they can label us as 'never a true christian', then they can safeguard their beliefs without having to poke and prod at the underpinnings of their poorly formed belief.
You quickly figure out that believers don't know much about logical fallacies, because they'll start throwing them at you one by one and you'll have to explain to them why the logic they're attempting to use is fallacious, then they'll just ignore your explanation and continue to use the same logical fallacies over and over again
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 Honestly, I just wish they could have peace and happiness. It doesn't feel good to be in that position.
How many PhD scientists have left "evolution" for Young Earth Creationism ?
TELL US WHAT THEY SAY
Dr. Miller knocked it out of the park........One of your best interviews yet.........!!!
It is unfortunate that there is enough trashy people within the police and justice system in general that I am left wondering if he was trying to make up for having a guilty conscious about how he has earned his own money.
I've listened to multiple deconstruction videos and testimonies. My faith in Christ WILL NOT be shaken. I was a drug peddling, drug using, sexual fornicating, alcoholic thief, who took police on a high-speed pursuit. The experience that I had with God won't allow me to just give up and leave the faith behind. Are there some tough passages and verses in the Bible, yes! Are there some contradictions? Probably. The core of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ WILL NEVER change! 1st Corinthians 15:1-8 is historical, creedal, and reliable. Praise God ❤️
What experience did you have with God if I may ask?
Whatever keeps you happy.
Fascinating discussion. I could relate to Dr. Miller's story as it somewhat mirrors my own journey from Christian belief to atheism. Knowledge does indeed widen one's horizons to the point of no return. Once you understand the history of things and how ancient cultures operated, what was once held to be certain can no longer hold water. This video is well worth sharing.
You dont progress from a religion to atheism😂😂. You go beyond that and discover why you are on planet Earth . First i recommend to analyse your insecurities, phobias, relationships etc.. then start your journey into spirituality!
It seems many abdicate the search for Truth by simply announcing that they're now Atheist... as if that's now supposed to make us all feel valued with amazing purpose, and every sensible person is to do likewise.
Seriously?
It seems like the more sincere you are about finding truth and honesty, the less likely you are to remain religious.
Absolutely true, which is why the apologists never admit a love of truth, intellectual honesty and a sense of curiosity are the main reasons for becoming an atheist, not ...wanting to sin or hating god or pretending that god doesn't exist while knowing he does...or any of the other completely stupid reasons apologists say atheists left religion for.
I’m the same way. I grew up a staunch Christian and was surrounded by that my entire childhood, teen life, and early adulthood. But I always believed that the reason we took these things so seriously was because they were historically factual. Once I started reading the Bible for myself, I started seeing all the contradictions and holes. Then began my journey. Now I realize it’s all a rouse to control people. Haha. The religious establishment aims to “prove” theology is true by dogma, while I always cared about the actual truth. It’s shameful that religious establishment deliberately lies to people. I’ve always been a truth seeker. We should be telling folks the truth!
Absolutely agree with you!!
who's trying to control? if the whole point is controlling people how is it possible when this book is written over a period of a thousand yrs or more with so many authors?
:Staunch" does not equal born again & not backsliding.
By living a life in fear. Fear of what might happen if you don't stay in line. At least that's my take on what he meant.
@@1ofTheChosen but of course there must be the chosen ones to whom your god speaks directly and who interpret his desires to you. Thus you are controlled, by the priests of course.
Oh this is amazing to hear!! I love seeing people wake up and see all the falsehoods of religion and how it truly does hurt...
fear of death !
@@Sportliveonline me?
That's a very dogmatic religious sentiment.
I wonder if you have spent anytime at all thinking about the things you say.
An atheistic theology is still a theology, you can't escape this fundamental reality. Believing in no God is believing.
@@TheLookingGlassAU what? Atheism is not a theology. There is no belief involved. I don't think you understand the logic of atheism. I would break it down, but I don't think you will comprehend it.
Yet, a dose of reality will show you that there is no god or mighty being looking over you. This is why people are steering clear of religion. People are becoming smarter and taking the time to read and comprehend. They are no longer taking the word of others and would rather figure out reality to themselves.
@@inquisitive_stranger yeah there is. You just don't know how. Have a think about what you believe about God or gods - even if you don't have a positive belief, you by de facto have a negative belief. In other words you have an atheology. Philosophically you can't escape it.
Definitely one of your most engaging interviews. Just a fantastic episode. Thanks so much!
Nice job men !! The Great Awakening continues 🙏
Derek, I like how you adjust your style of approach to a particular scholar to meet them where they are at in terms of how they present themselves. Great interview as always. Thank you.
Thank you for noticing that and complimenting me on it.
WEST CHRISTIAN
Western Christians who converted to Islam, in general there are THREE main factors: FIRST: because westerners want to gain popularity in any way. In general, they have never been loyal and grateful to the parents who gave birth to and raised them. In addition, western Christians have never seen the history of their ancestors who have struggled to build their nation and homeland in their faith in God. SECOND: Western Christians are most easily influenced by the words of an Islamic preacher who speaks loudly about the religion of Islam and often attacks the truth of the Bible verses, did Western Christians know that Islamic preachers are generally scammers everywhere. They can only peel the verses of the Bible and compare them with the Koran, but Muslims in this world have never known the truth of the Koran itself, a simple example. 90% of the 114 Surahs in the Koran are all sourced from the Bible verses, the text of the verses has been changed slightly but the meanings of these verses are all the same as the Bible verses. This proves how shameful it is that Western Christians have fallen into heresy. The content in the Koran, not only 114 Surahs are taken from Bible verses, but includes the SCIENCE contained in the Koran and Hadith, all of which are sourced from Greek Hellenistic Philosophy. None of the verses of the Surah are from God. According to the Koranic lore, Muhammad received some of the 114 Surahs from the Angel Gabriel at the Cave of Hira and some at Medina. These are all fairy tales. The writers of the Koran very easily took verses from the books of Judaism and Christian books. The Koran has been revised over 387 years and was printed in 4 Countries: Three in Europe and One in Egypt. The revision of the Koran occurred during the rule of the Islamic Ottoman Caliph Turkey for 600 years and ended in 1917 surrender from British troops in Jerusalem. THIRD: Western Christians generally don't care about their religion before, if someone wants to pay as long as they are guaranteed big funds, they will do whatever is important for them to get money. Changing religions is normal for them, if one day they find that Islam is full of lies, they will definitely change again.. They don't realize that the Biggest Religion on Earth is not "Christianity" or "Islam" or "Judaism". The Largest Religious Groups are “Confucianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shintoism, and adherents of African, Asian, Latin American ethnic religions including Atheists. The number of these religious groups is 47%. Christian only 38%. Sunni Islam + Shia Islam only 12%. Ahmadyya Islam 3%. Ahmadyya Islam population in western Europe continues to increase compared to Sunni Arab Islam.
THE KORAN IS KNOWN IN 700 AD
# FIRST PRINTED:
IN ROME, ITALY IN 1537-1538
YEAR 1537, August 9 in Rome, Italy/
Between August 9, 1537 and August 9, 1538 Venetian printers Paganino
www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=350
# SECOND PRINTED:
IN RUSSIA IN 1787
The VI All-Russian scientific and practical conference "Reading named after Mukhlisa Bubi" took place in the city of Kasimov. At the plenary session, a digital copy of Russia's first printed Koran in Arabic, published in 1787 by decree of Empress Catherine II, was presented by Russia.
tatar-congress.org/en/news/russias-first-printed-koran-of-1787-was-presented-in-kasimov/
# THIRD PRINTED:
IN KAZAN IN YEAR 1803
Speaking at an event at the Islamic University of Kazan, Samigullin said in Kazan in
1803 the first
copy of the Koran was printed in the Islamic city
iqna.ir/en/news/3473916/kazan-first-muslim-city-where-quran-was-printed
That moment of wanting the truth and realizing it is more than what I was being presented. The escape and feeling the emotions of letting go were very well described. Well said. Thank you, Derek, and thanks Dr. Miller
Really appreciate Dr. Miller’s openness and honesty here. Very self-reflective and humble. Acknowledging his own faults he had as a believer and how it affected his relationships was very relatable.
I think Dr Miller’s being raised up in a very fundamentalist sect of Christianity contributed to his later doubts possibly.
Add in the “end times” nonsense-eology from the likes of Lindsay’s books and anyones beliefs would be off to a rough start lol.
No offense to Dr Miller regarding his upbringing.
I believe Miller sincerely followed his fundamentalist upbringing, went thru some huge losses, like his divorce from his wife while in bible college/seminary etc, but maybe got too caught up in the researching History, Theology gray area questions, epistemology, hermeneutics, etc, and “researched” his way out of the foundational beliefs of the Christian Faith , seemingly with a dry-bones faith in God, and a non-aprehending RELATIONSHIP (CAPS only for emphasis) with Jesus Christ.
Too little living out your faith with prayer, worship, regular bible reading/discussion in fellowship with others, pursuing deeper relationship with the Lord Jesus thru the spirit is deflating.
Too much dry, scholarly “never ending” questing for ever greater truths to resolve all personal doubts eventually can squeeze out faith in something despite a wealth of head knowledge to fall back on.
A charitable basic Faith in anything must come before even attempting to use Logic, Reason, Philosophical methods of investigating the deeper truths out there.
I am not talking about pure blind faith either to be clear.
The world is constantly bombarding us all with different knowledge, values, morality , purpose, meaning, beliefs, and truth claims etc. These all distract us from our various pursuits, while also adding temptations, vices/virtues, right vs wrong, feelings about many things, that pull us in opposing directions simultaneously and away from time in relationship with our Creator.
Regular putting on the armour of God, soaking in the word of God, fellowship an church worship, an daily growing prayerfully towards the Lord thru His faithful grace, an love, amongst others can stoke the fires in our hearts up with the Lord to renew and refine our relationship with the Lord.
Dark times come to be sure but we have the hope that surpasses all understanding as no one on earth has the all the perfect answers we seek while on earth.
Sometimes we all, but particularly some men being overly pure logical thinkers , want to get everything verified, every question or doubt answered , every motive, agenda, or full contextual reason to be fully cogent when we passionately pursue a topic of great importance, influence to our own journey in life, before we fully commit to something.
This is more true even today with the breakdown in trust, the push into relative morality, families, communities, and western societies all giving huge doubts as to why any of us should commit to anyone, anybelief/religion/ideology or anything period..
However a humble faith in Jesus Christ is still far more fruitful than the alternatives across time and history.
The Christian faith has the real lived experience we can have in reuniting with God thru His Son Jesus thru His grace, promises, and new mercies every morning.
Christianity has the most trustworthy evidence, reason, logic, an positive arguements that can be made of the world religions, especially when it comes to an ideology that welcomes ALL to reconcile to the Creator thru His grace etc.
This is experiential based history based on the actual fruits of EVERY major religion, belief system, philosophy, cult, political system in the known world. Atheism, naturalism, Animism, deism, pantheism, panentheism, gnosticism, mysticism, theism, all come up short to contend in the “Boxing ring of Ideologies” in terms of ACTUAL thriving on their own two feet , able to defend their own belief systems without just using negative arguments, or subpar logic, effective coherent reasoning, or real objective evidential outcomes of FRUIT over time to show if the proof is in the pudding, or not.
The western world made more positive advances in reason, philosophy scientific methods, theories, objective truth, physics, biology, cosmology, chemistry, mathematics,
“Pound for Pound” , than any other ideology, religion, belief/political system in the history of the world.
Atheism, Buddhism, Roman-Catholicism, Hinduism, Judaism, Kaballah, Zoroastrianism, Gnosticism, Islam, Mormonism, Zionism, Paganism, Naturalism, Materialism, Scientism, Luciferianism, Taoism, Fabianism, Communism, Socialism, etc etc etc.
… They all have some elements in their belief system that people may find of interest to follow or invest their life in, BUT in history we can see that partially due to the corruption of mankind everywhere, the Christian Faith (the orthodox/traditional),
GROWS THE MOST HEALTHY FRUIT, out of ALL belief systems in the world ever. The FRUIT I am talking about is
claraified clearly in
Galatians 5:22-24
“The Fruit of the Spirit is: Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, & Self-Control”.
There has never been an Ideology or Belief system that has better demonstrated these FRUITS (as evidence or to prove) beyond hypotheticals that these other belief systems, religions, ideologies throughout History have anywhere near the value of fruits in comparison. This is not to boast but only a statement challenge that if there was a more fruitful ideology to believe in and follow its Leader to the belief systems logical ideological conclusions , then I am open to hearing their case for it.
Right now my doubts are great that a superior ideology could be found , (that has successfully run independently of other contradictory belief systems etc), that has had a greater positive impact on humanity than Jesus Christ coming to save humanity.
Most have actually had great positive influence from Christianity and the good samaritans who serve others according to God’s will in war torn countries, authoritarian regimes, etc with food, clothing, health/medicine, love, hope, and the Gospel message of good news for every man, woman, tribe, ethnicity, religion, etc.
Many of the other ideologies are no where close in terms of love, compassion, charity, freedoms, and the peace of the Lord Jesus that passes all understanding.
Of course there are hypocrites, human corruption in everything, everywhere on earth , and Christians like everyone else often do make mistakes.
However things like Atheism cannot function as a pure ideological nation state solely independent of objective morality, with its own laws, regulations, etc for long before it turns into its eventual outcome: a descending escalator of increasing human corruption leading to an authoritarian totalitarian communism, etc. Of course if atheism just piggybacks off theism, it can last far longer, BUT NOT because the Atheism worldview has any top tier real value as an objective ideological belief system.
Unless you are for the Soviet Union, Pol Pot, Mao’s China, Cultural Marxism, the Nazi’s atheistic gnostic mysticism , Subjective morality, etc.
I hope Dr Miller has a change of heart in the future as this message only aims to point him back towards a personal active life in pursuining relationship with Jesus Christ, and not back to his presbyterian religion, his Christian religion in God, the church, or theology, ministry etc. His choice of other future ideologies (we all must live for something), only gets more muddy, as his search for complete answers and logical reason, evidential history, objective facts etc, will not get any clearer as the water only gets more murky, the deeper an further you step away from the clear waters of the truth of who Jesus Christ is for all of humanity.
Jn 14:6
Jn 3:16
Jm 4:8
🙏
(Edited for spelling, verse correction etc).
@Terre Schill
You had some thoughts that you ATTRIBUTE to being influenced by "God". How can you know that this is the case? This is puerile thinking.
@Terre Schill
No, no and no but I'll look everything up, I've taken a screenshot. Mere words whether written or spoken will NEVER convince me of any deities. Any deity would have to prove its existence to ME, to MY satisfaction.
@Terre Schill
You end with an argument for deism but nothing more.
If any deities exist I wouldn't worship them, especially the Abrahamic god.
@Terre Schill
WTF 😳
12:57 Well said | What they call being "the devil's advocate" just means you're intelligent and critical. Asking the tough questions can be brave and (too) challenging to others but it's the only way to truly expand your knowledge and grow. Besides hanging out with people you agree with all the time is boring and stagnant
Thanks for posting
You might enjoy the book, Jesus’ Biological Father was Joseph: According to the New Testament, by DS WAGGONER
Definitely felt that "I put the book down" moment. For me it was stunned silence for about 10 minutes as I tried to come to grips with what the new information meant to me, though how I stopped myself from crying eludes me.
Ditching Christianity was the best decision I ever made. Deconstructing those negative thought processes in Christianity is the tough part. Now I’m a happy agnostic atheist.
Live in the UK and i know only a handful of christians...........churches are being sold every week for housing.....most funerals are secular..........think we are the 7th most atheist country in the world
Calculate how much money you saved by not tithing or the amount of time you get back by not sitting in a church pew listening to BS.
Ah, back to the belief that you're going to become worm food and then worm sh#t are we? That will encourage people to do the right thing and put the other person first, won't it now!
you never ditched christianity. it's just a fanciful way of telling strangers you're an atheist, which atheists must do every fifteen minutes
@@jgunther3398 wow can you tell me more about how I feel, who I am, and what I think? Thanks!
💖💗💓 Excellent interview and discussion. We who have left have so much in common when we ask the hard questions and seek what is actually true.
The resurrection could have been a deliberate lie, but it wasn't a myth. It started before Paul, before Greek influence. And decades later, the people who started it were still in charge and fully in position to say "no, that's not what we meant".
interesting interview. i'm a former devout christian myself with a seminary degree. lost a lot of friends and family over it. they now think i'm some horrible criminal bc i'm not a believer.
my eye opening moment was in a class for my masters where we were reading ancient religious texts and i read a beautiful psalm to Zeus that was identical to psalms in the christian scripture and it progressed from there. through education. and it was difficult to lose my religion and sad and shocking. the personal toll it takes to entirely leave your world view, family traditions, the entirety of your identity... it's an extremely difficult journey to deconstruct. but i've found those who persevere to leave christianity have a higher allegiance to truth over anything else. and are often the most devout.
i hope having access to history and language and traditions through the internet will secularise this entire world significantly in the next 100yrs.
See story of Zeus and Hermes, dressed as beggars, visiting Philemon and Baucis. Ovid's Metamorphoses. The same gods visited Sarah and Abraham where Sarah was told she would be having a child (copied from myth of Orion).
@@harveywabbit9541 ya i'm familiar. once i started reading some other ancient scripture and realizing it all sounds the same, plus some legit docs on the canaanites and sumerians, akkadians, etc.... you see clearly the roots of the judeo-christian mythology. it's like a bubble burst. i'm embarrass for believing a fairy tale for 34yrs and giving my entire life to serving a mythology. i was an MK, PK, youth pastor, christian school teacher, christian preschool, summer camp junior counselor, my entire life revolved around christianity. because i thought of it as the most noble thing one could do with one's life. and i was extremely devout. people think you just walk away from your religion but it's really a trauma crisis in your life going through deconstruction. and then a period of mourning and grief. all while family and friends also abandon you and call you all sorts of horrible things. won't associate or speak to you anymore. and now where i trained for 34yrs for christian ministry, i now have to re-find a career having lost my network, and "calling" and having to rethink existence.
i ended up having a heart attack at the age of 45 from the stress. le sigh.
@@harveywabbit9541 other response was lengthy, sorry. have you read any of the hermetica? written by hermes trismigistus. it's an ancient egyptian text that was translated to greek. only the greek translation is extant. but it predates the new testament and has a scene that exactly mirrors nicodemus asking jesus how to be born again. it uses the same language about being born again. that's at least how old that concept is, likely much older even.
@@SophiaTheSophist
The old Sun "dies" and is "born again" at the winter solstice. This is necessary to go to Heaven (spring equinox - autumn equinox) aka Kingdom of God.
If you really had a relationship with JESUS then you would have never left. It's one thing to have the head knowledge of JESUS and to have a relationship with HIM. The devil deceiving many. One day we will all see. better hope your not wrong.
what a wonderful interview! it almost made my cry 🥲
And I think he also was holding back the tears remembering his pain during his deconstruction
Deconstruction is the most terrifying process someone can go through. Feels like you're getting pulled out of a nightmarish tunnel. There is something very wrong with christianity.
Wow what a great interview, I was riveted to his story. I have great respect for Dr. Miller's refusal to bend knee to willful ignorance. A great video, a great interview and a fascinating story. I would like to thank Dr. Miller for sharing that. Cheers!
As a former Christian, I totally agree. Christianity faded in the background after I learned the history of religion. My belief shifted. I am a better person for it. Trying to live up to all the restraints in Christianity living such a narrow box always drew conflict with in my world. Now I live without judgment of others, and I am finally free.
Christianity started fading for me in high school with some of the Sunday School classes causing serious questons of science and logic
Paul was free to eat meat sacrificed to idols and the poor could collect wheat on the Jewish Sabbath, according to Jesus alone. Read Romans again. Look at the Martin Luther Bible. That is freedom in Christ. The rest is demonic oppression reinterpreting on behalf of bishops.
Thx Derek. Fantastic story about his faith/nonfaith and academic journey.
Do you think people who have a casual nonfaith perspective on life and take it for granted are missing out on something? You are just so excited, passionate and interested... so much motivation/dedication there.
My journey has been always ongoing: always expansive liberal by nature, introduced to historical textual criticism in my early 20s that knocked my faith socks off and the unfolding of my inner gay nature.
Duke scholar, Rick Roderick, said such a journey in our times is full of complexity, uncertainty and insecurity. I am amazed many, over long lives, get stuck on museum piece gods.
What a fascinating interview. I have wanted to hear Richard’s story since we first met in the classics department at Yale while I was an undergrad and he a graduate student. I knew then that he had come from a fundamentalist Christian background and that he had encountered major challenges to his faith since taking up scholarship. I admired how he soldiered on, despite the toll it took on him, which is not really visible here so many years on, but it was then. I had a great deal of admiration for him since so much was at stake. He was a truth-seeker, which assumed a willingness to go wherever his investigations took him. His telling of his Eureka! moment while studying Livy’s Romulus section in Veronika Grimm’s class is very moving. Excellent interview. Thank you.
Are you a THEIST? 🤔
If so, what are the reasons for your BELIEF in God? 🤓
not really he is clueless as to what Jesus really said
john 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; *no one will snatch them out of my hand*.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand
@@raysalmon6566
Quite amusing to hear fundamentalists call other people clueless.
@@FoursWithin Jesus certainly was not an Evangelical fundamentalist
bv14 john 18:37"You are a king, then!" said Pilate.
Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."
.
.
@@FoursWithin however most skeptic comments are just parroting other skeptics who are Clueless
I used to attend AA but my history of atheism began to get in the way of my ability to share and enjoy listening without thinking critically about what was being espoused. I decided that I didn't need AA and AA didn't need me.
Bill Burr - Letting Go of Religion is like Olympic Curling
Funny thing is, I heard him say Bill Barr! I couldn't make that work.
I love that bit from Bill, the look on his face when he lets go of the stone 🤣
The Buddhists believe that all the gods and demons are creations of the mind. I've never been able to dismiss this idea. It seems so basic, so simple, and so true. You should have a few Buddhists on your show.
are you a Buddhist?
As they say, the simplest explanations are often the truest.
In a sense, everything is a creation of the mind. Here's a link to an interview with Dr. Bernardo Kastrup who has PhD's in Computer Science and Philosophy, concerning why he concludes that "mind" is fundamental in the universe. ua-cam.com/video/e1Lkg9wgIeM/v-deo.html
@@misscameroon8062 Yes... I suppose so. I like their philosophy.
Would they be on the show to discuss Buddhism as myth?
I'm a Richard too but when I was 13, I gave myself the freedom to doubt. I knew I was young, but I figured I could always learn new things and possibly change my mind and believe. That didn't happen and I'm 78 now. What I did at 13 was treat the Bible with the same level of skepticism that Christians treat other Holy Books. So I started reading it and I was not impressed.
Quite quickly I found that nothing in it was written in the first person. No where did the authors say "I was there with Ralph and Lucy and I saw "a miracle. It was always some goat herder relating a story which had no source.
Soon, I dropped the Bible... noticed that there wasn't anything else to Christianity. All a member of the clergy could add was his ideas about the same stories. Then it hit me... Christianity is all about indoctrination while you're young which is entirely about convincing the willing that the Bible is God's word so they will worship the stories in that BOOK.
No, I don't have PhD. I just approached Christianity with about 10% of the skepticism I use if I was going out to buy a used car. That's all it took for me to reject it.
That was about 1958. Everyone one was a Christian but not me... there weren't as many fanatics as there are now. Christians are panicking, it seems, not that I've been a church more than 10 times since I was 13. I was all alone, or it seemed that way to me. The Internet has changed all that. Thank Ju Ju Up the Mountain.
I was in a live stream the other day and some lady said she was praying for the people to be safe from the tornado and so I brought out my argument that if God saves them from a tornado but he didn't help the five children that died today, in the U.S. , from neglect and abuse..... And she says "well it doesn't matter that they died because they're in a better place now" ................................ yup. So I ruined a good pair of underwear when I crapped in them. (context: 1800 children die every year in the US from neglect and abuse ,so that's about five a day)
@@o0o-jd-o0o95 3 million children starve to death every year thanks to gawd's "mysterious ways" f that dude
I'd love to sit down with you face to face with a cup of coffee and talk to you about this subject that i was tortured with when i was a kid,much bitterness now twards it.
@@o0o-jd-o0o95 I was sitting in a Baltimore bar about 10 yrs ago and was eaves dropping on a coversation -lol- and this woman was ranting about God,if God knows everything that will happen in the future why bother creating anything he ,it she,allready knows the outcome and i believe she was half lit but ithought to myself,DAMN she's gotta good point,lol.
Yes, there are many more Christian fundamentalists today than years ago. They ae afraid to change ever so slightly.
As a former Christian, I realised that the more I Iearned about Christianity the more I was pushed away. In contrast the more I learned about Islam the more it drew me in.
Also Islam was everything that I expected Christianity to be.
For example the spread of Christianity wasnt mainly due to Jesus (peace be upon him) it was due to Paul (who never met jesus) & the pagan roman empire. Islam spead was directly due to the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his companions(disciples).
This is just one of many things. Id highly recommended people look at Islam with an open heart.
The problem of Islam is the story 😊 of mohamed..check out the genocide of banu hurayza, check the story of his wife who was married to his adopted son Zyad ,check about married women's that are permitted if your right hand possess them
I.was a devout muslim but I lost my faith while looking for informations to know and love the prophet more . How a prophet of God can attack caravanes to take and money and food? I was so depressed while doing this research but I gave my life to God so I need to know where I'm at exactly .Sorry if I hurt you 💔
@@maggiecisse2898you are a lier .
@@hashimalzarooni9179 do your own research please
Excellent! I had a similar journey but not from an academic field. I call Christianity, Roman Orthodoxy.
The catholic church is the inventors, that tells me all I need to know.
Watching a documentary about a culture where human sacrifice was common triggered my “Aha!” moment. I knew for decades about human sacrifice, had even studied anthropology in college, but for some reason it didn’t click until that moment that the Jesus story is exactly the same thing! Then the real studies of world religions began. Now I don’t see how I ever believed it for a minute! Thanks for the interview. Happy to know I’m not alone.
Ur certainly not alone in ur opinion here.
@Bm Well, he was supposed to come back 2,000 years ago and didn’t show up, so obviously that isn’t going to happen! In case you don’t know, Jesus was far from the only deity who supposedly arose from the dead: Osiris, Tammuz, Adonis, Attis, Zagreus, Dionysus, Baldr, Quzacoatl, Izanami, Horus, Buddha, Krishna, Zorathustra, Hercules, Mithra, Hermes to name a few. So what makes Jesus so special? Everything about his life had been done by others - he was not unique!
@@26beegeeserious question. Did anyone witness these gods resurrection? And then did those witnesses fall to torture and death for testifying that it was so?
@@rodbarrett1581 No one witnessed the resurrections of Osiris, the two Caesars, Jesus or any of the other deities’ mythological resurrections. We are taught in church that the gospels were written by the disciples who were first-hand witnesses but, Bible scholars across the world agree the gospels were written by unknown authors several decades after the supposed crucifixion of Jesus. The names were assigned even later than that. If you actually read the gospels (rather than relying on your pastors to tell you the truth) you will discover none of the gospel writers ever claim to have witnessed a resurrected Jesus. They tell of the event but, not that they witnessed it. Paul is the only one who actually makes that claim and even his account, as he acknowledges, was a vision. Resurrection was a common theme for deities in the Hellenistic world. No one has ever been resurrected from the dead because it is a physical impossibility. Not physically or spiritually. Once the blood stops flowing there is no electricity to the brain to power any type of brain activity which would be necessary even for a “spiritual” resurrection. Never happened, never will. When we die it is lights out and we are right back where we were before conception - nonexistent. I’m fine with that, why isn’t everyone? We had our time on the earth just like every other living thing. What more do we need or deserve?
Most of Christ followers are not academy ..by the gospel has been here for 2000 yrs now
What I love about your channel is book recommendations. I'm a bibliophile, so when you recommend a book I instantly buy it. Dr. Miller's book on the resurrection is excellent!
I read a couple great book reviews. My research and publications of 2001-2007 reached the exact same type of conclusions: the Genre Problem; a massive genre category error.
@@eternalism8274 Yes, indeed.
Crying 'For loss and for joy'... beautifully put. My own experience.
Exactly right and same. Including his prayer at that time...I remember that same pray.
Ex-Catholic, Atheist now. Was indoctrinated into it by by mother.
When I was in my early 20's I questioned things I was brainwashed into believing. Hard to leave, but I did it. Logically speaking it's a bunch of nonsense. If god truly wants me to know him, this ALL POWERFUL being could simply tell me himself.
Why can't everyone be this rational!
It is interesting to listen to a former fundamentalist christian who became an academic that then led to his deconstruction of his beliefs. For myself, a mere high school graduate raised in the south and in a Southern Baptist church tradition, all it took was my desire to find solid evidence on which I could place all the beliefs I was told were true. As a young adult I thought that my first step was to sit down and actually read the bible from cover to cover. I thought I had had a good education in those books from the gazillion Sunday school classes and bible studies of my past, but WOW was I so wrong. I made it all the way through once and then said I had to do it again because I was becoming so angry that so much had been withheld from me by my church. So, again I went through it from cover to cover. The second reading was more objective than the first as I had taken off those metaphorical god glasses and read it as it was written. I then began to ponder the origin of the belief in this Yahweh god. I knew it was a fact that humanity pre-dated the beginning of the Abrahamic religions so when did people start to claim Yahweh was the one true god? That led me to reading a lot of books on ancient history, which led me to books on many ancient mythologies (or religions of ancient times). Then I also began studying about what science knows about the world and the universe. After watching the PBS miniseries with Dr. Joseph Campbell on the Power of Myth. I just stood in my living room and said to myself "All religion is mythology; it's stories humans have told themselves for 10s of thousands of years to assuage their fear of death and the unknown and questions about the world they inhabit. Rulers have certainly found it useful in controlling the thoughts and actions of their populations, but it is all just made-up stories. There is no heaven nor is there a hell. I'm an atheist. Whew! That's truly great news." and a feeling of joy and liberty overwhelmed me. That process is something most theists today are totally afraid to take due to the fear instilled in them by their religion which is certainly a shackle of the mind. Point is, you don't have to be an academic to deconstruct your religion, just curious about where it comes from, and why you think it is true. The curtain will fall.
Wow! his realization at 24 minutes in that the Roman legend of Romulus is strangely just like Jesus legend.. so powerful, like when I as a child first started actually reading through a bible and realizing, oh, the god that created every soul actually is taking sides in a tribal fight in the middle east.. and cares nothing for the other souls he created and actually calls for their complete annihilation woke me up real quick
It is really interesting how this god of love and mercy so constantly takes sides in the fights among the talking monkeys and turns out to be so bloodthirsty, so frequently.
@@IllbedamnedifIainthandsome he spoke specifically about the apotheosis of Romulus. He wasn't comparing their lives or their deeds, just the apotheosis.
@I'll be damned if I ain't handsome Specifically in having been raised up straight through the clouds into heaven right in front of his followers. More generally, in being a heroic figure later honored as divine with temples and worship. No one is claiming similarity in every detail...but those two tropes in common.
@I'll be damned if I ain't handsome Or, to be more accurate, "whereas some of his followers later claimed that Jesus was and is God eternally, and this became the story that got carried forward into orthodoxy."
@I'll be damned if I ain't handsome not the Star Trek Romulus! 😅
Back in the 70's I was involved heavily in the Presbyterian Church. Iwas asked to teach an adult study group in the OT to go along with the teaching of the junior highs. I was picked because congregation members thought I was a conservative Christian (never was) and I was available. I was likely the least well educated person in that congregation. I owned a blue collar/biker bar as a living.
Reading the OT I quickly realized that it was nothing but an anthology of myths used to justify war crimes, and to propagandize a ethnic group. All the ancient cultures believed their god could beat up your god.
Mostly human carnal.
I think this man's wife leaving him was pivotal to his loss of faith and the superficial similarities with Roman religion fueled the blame he placed on his prior convictions for ruining his marriage. I feel sorry for him.
Scrolling through the comments it is amazing to me how many God of the gaps arguments there are, then you get the all-time favorite you were never really a Christian in the first place, which gives them the special validation of being special or smarter than most to have received this miraculous revelation, while at the same time making incredible assumptions along with being the epitome of pretentious. Then to follow it up you get my all-time favorite you're not supposed to know the mind of God you're not capable or didn't try hard or long enough...Mind-blowing to think we were made in his image except for the fact that we were made dirty stupid sinful unable to conceive basic concepts and doomed for inherited mortal sin. Swift said you cannot convince someone through logic of a conclusion they came to illogically. These people are literally prepared to wait 2000 more years for an allegorical metaphorical fantasy that was never meant to be taken literally. It is sad to believe that without God you are nothing, actually less than nothing by their accounts. The funniest part to me is how they say we're close minded while that is the very essence of their belief system. Richard Feynman... I would rather have questions that are unanswered than have answers to questions that can never be asked. Carl Sagan... Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Lots more to say but I do not have time to argue with irrational people who are also illogical and close-minded.
I was so strucken by dr Miller's sincerity in his claims.
What a plesant scholar to listen to.
I love seeing these types of conversion stories, especially with minds like his, so intelligent. Welcome aboard!
I majored in Bible in college and MDiv in Church History & Theology both Methodist evangelical schools. Pastored in UMC. Left Ch’ty 2005. Now an agnostic and convert to Reform Judaism.
- Brenda MCCLOUD
What a pity. Smart but never find Jesus.
Fail to understand what Jesus want in your life.
Wow…”the tears of joy and loss” that hit me on a cellular level..that was me throughout deconstruction and once I realized I had to leave Jesus I sobbed for days and yet felt so free.
Same here! You are right!
You are wrong. God is. Jesus is God, and he calls you to repent.
@@saintjulien6126 You're both wrong.
@@savedby_grace6110 When you are ignorant, you believe everyone is wrong who doesn't agree with you. Very sad
@@savedby_grace6110 Educate yourself before you judge others. You are brain washed.
It takes huge intellectual courage to admit that long held beliefs are wrong. Most people just don't have this courage.
A very profound interview well done. My journey has been quite different. Long story short, I read a number of books over the years concerning Christianity, its history and development. Still do (Just finished Bart Ehrman's Heaven and Hell book) And I was shocked that I had reached a similar conclusion from my prior readings to what he does in that book. I had also read In Search of Paul (2004) by John D Crossan and Jonathan L Reed. That book places Paul as proselytizing "Jesus" in this 1st Century AD world that Dr. Miller is describing. Paul had to compete with the existing religious views, and that book explains Paul runs into conflict with the Jews who also proselytized around the Mediterranean / Roman world. Paul angers the Jews in several cities because he is "stealing" the gentile "friends of God" that attended Jewish Synagogues. That book also compares the Roman pagan belief systems and how Paul would frame his message to compete with those. The fact that there were competing interpretations of Christianity at that time that were forcibly repressed and fought over, also indicates, that it was an interpreted story. And has been since it began. Another book I read. a modern book on Judaism, basically espoused the same moral views, that I knew Christianity did. (I no longer remember or have that book, wish I did.) And several Karen Armstrong books. What made me question all of it, is the fact that in organized form, this belief system ends up being used in more conflict since the end of the Roman empire than not. The Prince of Peace became once again a warrior (thanks Constantine). And the winners used the tired old argument, that victory is proof of the truth. Sigh. SMH. Oh Well.
Not of this realm
@@2FollowHim777 LoL, realm means ruler. Find one. LoL
It is amazing how we are still learning and these two men are at the forefront of that process. Thank you!
I would place scientists at the forefront of the process of learning. Why? Because it is systematic learning that is why. But if you mean about what happened about that "extra special" moment in history, well special to people that think christianity is king and are coming from that as a central and distorted perspective, then yes these guys aren't bad.
Richard C. Miller: “I packed my bags, got my cat in the car and moved across the country for an exclusive tutelage at a prestigious university…”
Me: Wow, he got his cat in the car?
Lol. He never said how long it took to get his cat in the car 😂
I drove across seven countries and crossed two seas with my cat in my car. 🐱
@@TheHookahSmokingCaterpillar Your pet never was a 'True Cat'™️
@@Vadjong I think he might disagree with you about that, if he could be bothered to wake up from the snooze he's having on the chair I want to sit on. 🐱
@@TheHookahSmokingCaterpillar In his heart he just wants to sin,
“I don’t know where this is going, but I want the truth.” - I remember praying that way too, when I could see the direction my studies were leading me - away from the validity of the Bible. It was scary before it became liberating, because of the way believers are so psychologically repressed and instilled with so much fear - fear of doubt, fear of displeasing “God,” etc.
Glad we escaped the cult.
Thank you for sharing candidly!
Gosh, yes!! The fear!! It would take me a few days to get those feelings down... Then the shame of "losing faith", then back to fear...
I'm glad to know I wasn't alone in this, for some reason it's comforting.
The Bible authors all had doubts and fears and foggy vision of God's ways...yet they all were restored to faith in their earnest search of God whom they knew...I doubt you ever knew God...
Truth was my number 1 prayer too, though, so far, I'm not convinced Christianity is false.
@@youngknowledgeseeker Never heard someone's testimony whence they say that THEY LEFT CHRISTIANTY.
It is always have been about catholic religion from which they left and not a CHRISTIANTY.
Every soul who have come out with "Why I Left Christianity" ends up speaking about catholic religion.
And souls know it and understand it that:
Christianity is found only in the BIBLE, as a soul takes a bible, sits down and reads it and then start studying it in order to understand it, or we end up misreading the whole bible.
Coming to repentance and born again is each soul`s individual CONSCIOUS decision, which child (0 - 20 years) cannot do. It is the CONSCIOUS decision for the adults.
No child goes to hell to burn, GOD is not unjust, HE IS JUST JUDGE.
Hell fire waits us when we being adults and remain sinners.
The keys to understand the BIBLE are:
- hunger for truth
- THE COMFORTER.
Christians are expected to live out from the BABYLON and expose the wicked (masons and their death club, freemasonry), yet all of your stories are about being in the Babylon, and very deeply in.
@@theharshtruthoutthere Yes, even if I ever have doubts, Jesus words are so amazing and really light a spark in your hearts/minds. His words scream "THIS IS THE WAY TO LIVE" and only a fool could dismiss the wonder that his message took over alot of the known world despite it starting from nothing, he being a nobody peasant from nowhere that died so humiliatingly pitifully.
I ask God to help with my faith, but I recognize just how amazing Jesus and his words are.
Powerful testimony.
Thank you for that interview.
Very enlightening.
My immediate takeaway...
As we all progressing at varying times and places throughout our lives, from my perspective,
I believe that as long as we have what I call "Golden Rule Love and Respect" for everyone that exists or has existed, that continued enlightenment will be ours.
The instant we become ignorant and intolerant of others and their journey and want to force our belief and will on them
Is when growth is stifled.
History has proven that
Intolerance is not bliss.
Wow! Your production value keeps getting better and better, Derek! Excellent interview!
Interesting interview. Thankfully as a Christian I can a test to the reality of the risen Christ by the miracles and direction he has provided in my personal life. No arguments about what the OT or NT is or isn't can ever change my real life experiences with God.
You big tease. What did God do?
@@timfallon8226 Spoke to my wife on how to handle our troubled teenage daughter after she ran away, healed my lower back from a rollerblading accident, healed my flu instantly, told me exactly what what was worrying a friend of mine as they lost sleep late in the night (they confirmed it), etc...
100%!!
@@michaelcoudriet5896stop lying there's no healing or anything.Is Ur Jesus in space 🌌
@@michaelcoudriet5896there's no healing that's just a mind games by the priest there is already a person who give Ur details to the priest
Another great interview by MythVision Podcast. Thanks for bringing us these gem regularly.
A lot of people say they left Christianity and were never in Christianity in the first place, and have no idea how to go about being a part of it. I repented, was baptized by immersion in water, according to Acts 2:38, and was filled with the Holy Ghost speaking in unknown tongue just like they did in the tenth chapter of Acts. I received the revelation that Jesus Christ was God Almighty in the flesh the only supreme God there is or ever will be. Jesus said, in John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Many Christian’s fall away and most likely due to an unwillingness to surrender self and sin. But like most Christians who fell away or falls away we look to throw the blame elsewhere. Furthermore the Bible says that in the last day there shall be a great falling away.
We need to work on convincing kids to avoid the idiocy of Christianity. Teach them why it's all bogus at an early age.
Don't forget Judaism and Islam.
We must also work to convince them that atheism is false because there are no facts that proves it true.
@@Justas399 There are no facts that prove alien UFOs aren't buzzing around our cities, but that doesn't mean being a UFO skeptic is false.
It's often impossible to prove a negative, but if you can show how silly the going beliefs are, you can at least eliminate lots of nonsense, such as Jesus ruling over heaven and sending non-believers to hell.
@@charliedoyle7824 There is more evidence for the existence of ufo's than there is for atheism. There is no evidence for atheism. No facts that proves it true.
@@Justas399 Atheism cannot be false because it makes no claims. It is simply the rejection of the god claim.
Education is religions worst enemy. Thank you for this wonderful interview. Great work my dude.
internet is another big enemy to religion
When the "university" you attend demands you make a statement of faith in something that is unprovable (much less asinine), It's time to leave and find a different school.
@@robertring4252 i think they worship money over integrity
Nah.
@@rebelresource see you are a big fan of billy craig............he is worth a whopping $13 million...........so if the bible is right how is billy possibly going to make it to heaven...or is the story with jesus the rich man camel the eye of the needle yet another story we shouldnt take lierally??
It's clear that an honest study of any faith is the best counter-apologetic.
never been religious myself but i suspect most Christians have never read the bible but just know what their pastors\vicars \priests tell them every Sunday......there are some really horrible verses in the bible bet none of them are told in churches on a sunday
@@paulrichards6894 Why do you think there are some many pages in Genesis that copy and paste “And then ____ begat ____ at ___ years old, and the Lord gave him ____ years and then he died”? It bored me out of reading more as a kid.
SloMoMonday Neuroscience is making a lot of progress in that respect.
It's fascinating that the faith he was raised in was so rigid that the idea that the authors of the New Testament might disagree with each other was enough to start breaking it down.
Not believing something is not the same as knowing its not true
As much as I value learning, I'm glad I was able to reach the mythological conclusion without investing so much time and effort in a seminary.
Right? Man, the investment in time alone.
Now I can waste all my time learning about the same things without the burden of having to believe any of it is true 😆
Yeah he could of just read Ezekiel 18:20. or Read the meaning of the word Christ / Moshiach which means “anointed by God” not actually God.
or just read Number 23:19 God is NOT a man
and kind of figured out the church teaches Jesus (a Jew) was God and realized it’s literally the opposite of what the Old Testament says, and therefore shouldn’t be glued to the Old Testament and had nothing to do with Jewish belief of a messiah or their God. So therefore it must be Roman religion.
Or He could of read Romans 13 and after trying not to laugh, figured out that’s Roman Empire propaganda 101.
But for some reason he needed to pay lots of money to study a third of book
For years, without trying to figure out what the first 2/3’s were talking about.
@@martinsolomon5500 "the opposite of what the Old Testament says, and therefore shouldn’t be glued to the Old Testament and had nothing to do with Jewish belief of a messiah or their God."
So, you're under the impression that the hebrew Bible as we know it today was the same back in the 1st century? And that jews in the 1st century had anything like a unified theology?
Not for nothing but like, maybe you should drop the condescending attitude towards Miller if you can't even demonstrate a basic ability to avoid introducing anachronisms into your analysis.
anyone who studies the bible and doesn't come to the conclusion its nonsense is either crazy or stupid
@@martinsolomon5500 Or you could read “God is not great” by Christopher Hitchens….👍👍
What a brilliant interview. Thank you Mythvision
I think redefining what myth means to us would make a big difference. It can be untrue literally yet useful as a collection of symbols. Since all that stuff is buried in your unconscious and pops up in dreams. Seeing them in a symbolic way can help you understand your mind. Now reading the Bible is actually kind of enjoyable now that I don't have to look at it as literal. It's as interesting as reading about Gilgamesh or Odysseus.
Fantastic interview! It made me remember a quote from Horace; "Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit et artes intulit agresti Latio."
Early christianity seems to be part of that effect; that "Greece, once conquered, herself conquered the conqueror, and brought the arts into rustic Rome." - by hellenising the very founding myth of Rome. That the "new Romulus" was a man belonging to another People conquered by the Romans make it even more intriguing. Thanks a lot for making these fabulous interviews!
Good interview. I knew of this scholar for years via reading his articles, or his name being cited by others, it just hit me this is the first time I've actually seen his face and heard his voice. Also had no clue about his background. Looking forward to the next video.
Is there a longer version? This scholar deserves much, much more time!
I have several more interviews with him coming out on Patreon over the next few weeks.
Great interview Derek.
I’m Christian non Dom!
I like this man.
God bless mankind.
Don't go reading and studying the bible like this man if you want to stay christian.....you don't want to find out its nonsense....i really dont understand how anyone can read that book and take it seriously....then i read on youtube people who don't believe the holocaust happened....then i get it....i realize the brain is far more complex than i thought
Wow, the discussion of real world drivers of Christianity (Romans) that propelled the religion forward and into dominance simply by being powerful but that this fact is now obscured by Christian dogma... is just mind blowing. Was also moved by Miller's honesty and vulnerability as he told his story.
💛🙏💛 Even while remaining a devout gods-worshipping Hindu, I do love to learning about the mythic sausage-making. Whether it's Hindu gods, Buddhist gods, Abrahamic gods, or anybody's gods. Hooray for the study of religious history! Thank you!
@I'll be damned if I ain't handsome Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck. They don't call them "gods," but for example Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva: 11 heads, 1000 arms/ or monism of Mahavairocana, or Buddhas who create entire worlds (pure lands) like Amitabha. Plus the many Hindu deities that were drafted into the Buddhist pantheon, including Ganesha, Saraswati, Indra, etc.
@I'll be damned if I ain't handsome Yeahhh...Buddhism definitely has gods, although it denies an ultimate God, and especially denies that that ultimate God is Brahma.
@@PavaniGanga
What you were bluffing isn't buddhist gods but gods of hinduized buddhism aka buddhism being followed in india.
Buddhism is almost dead in your country though it originated there, dude.
You killed them by labelling their god as one of avatars of hindu god
Plus tell me what is Sati ritual of hinduism
Richard and I arrived at the same place, but I took the short road and he took the longer, more scenic road. I came to the same conclusion that Christianity was just one of many historical religions through my freshman year world history class where I learned, for the first time, about all the historical religions. The lecturer was the best, the kind of teacher you looked forward to listening to. He was not biased, but presented each religion with the same enthusiasm, and the effect on my Christian faith was terminal. At that point I realized that all religions had similar and interesting narratives of a Central Figure, a Christ or a Buddha, around which a community of followers developed a spiritual culture, a way of thinking about the divine and a common sense of morality and ethics. And I could see no way to put one religion above another. No Christian church accepts all other religions on an equal basis. I eventually found the Baha'i Faith in Utah which did see all religions as coming from the same Source, similar to the successive teachers in a school presenting lessons tailored to the developmental stage of here/his students.
I found this quote from Hindu scripture which explains how the world religions may be seen as part of one process:
"Whenever there is decay of righteousness... and there is exaltation of unrighteousness,
then I Myself come forth... for the destruction of evil-doers, for the sake of firmly establishing
righteousness, I am born from age to age." --- KRISHNA- Bhagavad Gita- fourth discourse
For those not familiar with Krishna, He was born about 3228 BCE and is considered an Avatar by Hindus, and Avatars are incarnations of God, or you might say manifestations of God. The is close to the Christian idea that Christ is an incarnation of God. Each founder of an historical religion, like Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, etc. could be seen as successive incarnations, or manifestations of Divinity. You don't need to accept every mythology of religion as literally true, but rather understand the narratives as metaphorical and mystical. These myths arising from the lives and teachings of all the historical Manifestations of the Divine are the glue which has made possible new civilizations.
Jesus aka Joshua goes back to the age of the Bull.
It’s sad that a scholar doesn’t know the difference between grace through faith and religion 😢.
It’s really rather pathetic. He didn’t believe anything.
@@JonathanGrandt Right. He was going through the motions.
@@JonathanGrandt Wrong. He was very much a Christian as much as anybody, even you. Perhaps someday you too will change your beliefs.
@@JonathanGrandtHow arrogant to pretend to know the thoughts and feeling or someone else. And you do it to protect your own faith - to keep the delusion going. That's truly pathetic.
@@CyeOutsider very well put
Thanks for having him on, I so relate to his story and coming to my own conclusion of how other stories and religions had similar stories, I went through a deep depression at first as I started unraveling the truth of history..
Joseph Campbell covered the mythological intersections between world myths and Christianity many decades ago. The virgin birth, Christ's resurrection, and on and on. People of all religions feel like they are in touch with the ultimate reality. It is a flaw of the human mind, this ideological fixation that feels like absolute truth. The sad fact is that it is not only a religious feeling for ultimate reality but also manifests itself in our choice of political leaders, celebrity worshipping, and gurus of all kinds. It is a great kink in the human mind that many humans cannot overcome. They need awe in their lives. To worship something or someone.
I love this interview. Thank you, from someone who is still at the crying stage.
Whenever something "bad" happens, believers say "That was all part of God's plan". Strangely, I never hear them say:
Whenever a devout Christian de-converts that is part of God's plan.
No, that's part of "the great falling away".
@@michaelharrington75 Quit spamming, Christianity is freaking false
@@Non-religiou You're wrong. Christianity is the only way to God, and eternal life. Jesus is the only way.
@@michaelharrington75 You're the one who's wrong. Christianity has been debunked so many times by science and I bet a lot of u Christians even preachers don't even bother reading or studying the whole damn entire book but just cherry pick, it is full of contradictions, errors and misinformation and yet y'all don't wanna let go of it cause y'all were taught very differently about it as well as base it off by mere emotions and feelings which are 🚫 accurate. Also do u even bother looking into history what your damn religion really did to society or civilizations? Christianity is truly a very disturbing cult and you Christians don't wanna 🙈 that sadly.
How many PhD scientists have left "evolution" for Young Earth Creationism ?
TELL US WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT IT
👏🙂
Best wishes to Dr Miller
My parents and the rest of my extended family are all deeply Christian. My dad always has his key phrases on “proofs for Christ.” One of them is: there are many many people who convert from atheism to Christianity like C.S Lewis. I finally, as an atheist now, asked him, “who else?” I think he came up with one more name and that’s it. I’m sure there are a lot more than just two, but I’m seeing a decline in Christianity and a rise in atheism. With our scientific methods to discover actual truth, Christianity is on the beginning path to being just like the Ancient Greek gods or Egyptian gods: a thing of the past. Another of his arguments is against evolution: “If we came from monkeys then why are there still monkeys?” Lmao “If we are Americans who come from British people, then why are there still British people dad? It’s exactly like that.”
Define ‘actual truth’
Really? Scientists have methods of determining “actual truth” when it comes to the fundamental question of origin? If you think they’ve concluded anything with certainty regarding such matters, you’re incorrect. If you read these scientists own words, you’ll find phrases along the lines of “we have no idea how (blank) happens” all over.
Simply stated, they don’t have it all figured out. Not even close. As of now, the Big Bang theory has been completely blown apart through the findings of the James Webb Telescope, and Evolution has been on shaky ground for a long time. I mean, would you like to explain to me how we somehow “evolved” from single-celled organisms to what we are now, bearing in mind that we’ve never once observed the addition of genetic information? (We’ll temporarily ignore the fact that abiogenesis must’ve occurred at some point, assuming that Evolution is true, and scientists are not even close to explaining that, either.) If random mutations and natural selection are responsible for these changes over time, how do you reconcile the fact that both of these phenomena result in the reduction of genetic information-not the addition?
Also, do you just ignore the fossil record completely? I know that evolutionists have a couple of different fossils they love to tout as being “transitional” fossils, but they’re in no way indicative of being anything other than fully-formed creatures. If Evolution were true, the fossil record would necessarily be littered with, if not consisting predominantly of, real transitional fossils. Interestingly enough, Darwin himself gave this criteria for the falsification of his theory, and the criteria is most certainly not met.
Furthermore, you likely believe it’s plausible that we’ve evolved from apes, since the misinformation that we share 99% of our genetic information with apes has been widespread for a long time now. This, however, is not true. The vast, vast majority of the genetic information present in DNA had long been ignored by scientists-written off as “junk” DNA-because they believed it was simply leftover, now useless information that’s been retained after evolving. As it turns out, though, this isn’t true. This “junk” DNA, which accounts for about 98% of the human genome, has come out to be more much important than we once thought. It does, indeed, have importance. And, of this section of “junk” DNA, around 98% of it is unique to human beings. So then: no, we do not share 99% of our genetic information with apes.
I could go on with evidence to the contrary, but I don’t feel like wasting my time without guarantee you’d even give me the time of day. If you end up responding, I wouldn’t mind spending more time to delve into things further. I think that I’ve said enough at this point to refute your assertion that we have “scientific methods to discover actual truth”.
Actual truth is found within the pages of the Bible. I find it interesting that you compare Christianity to other ancient gods, because I think the contrast is much more illuminating. Unlike those other gods, our God-the one true Living God-has stood the test of time. I mean, the writings found in the Bible have been preserved in a way that other historical documents simply aren’t. These writings stand in a class of their own, whether or not you’d like to admit it. Continuing on, the Bible, with regard to its historical accuracy, is in better standing today than ever before. And that’s after (well, in the midst of) facing the most rigorous scientific, historical, and archeological scrutiny of anything, ever.
P.S.
A weak argument doesn’t automatically mean that the conclusion is false. Just because your dad can’t support his claims very well, doesn’t mean that he’s wrong in his conclusion. Though I would insist that we all alike have a moral obligation to establish good grounds for the conclusions we draw, you CANNOT use the lacking arguments of someone else to therefore bolster your own conclusion to the contrary. That’s just poor reasoning.
Remember, science has no bias. Says the secular lab tech in Wuhan. One man’s evil is another man’s treasure.
Ask your dad this simple 3 word question.
What is God?
I've been asking this question to anyone who uses the word God for about 2 decades now and I've yet to hear a consistent coherent definition of what god actually IS.
You'll find that when you ask this question people will answer by telling you what they believe god DID or DOES
But they won't tell you what god IS.
If they do attempt to explain what god is it will usually be something about god being a SPIRIT.
If they go down the SPIRIT path then ask them if we have a reliable method to confirm that spirits exist?
If so, what is that method?
At this point they know there isn't a reliable method to confirm that spirits exist and they'll try really hard to avoid answering your question.
Then shit will start getting weird, they'll start trying to take the conversation in all sorts of directions to avoid having to answer, but make sure you keep them on track and don't budge from the question, keep asking it over and over until they realise that they have no justification for believing that spirits exist therefore no justification for believing that God exists.
Not all apes evolved. We are actually the cousins of Orang-Utans and Chimpanzee, we share a common ancestor. There were different paths depending on geographical locations.
Truth is truth, whether we believe in it or not. I lost religion when I accepted that reality doesn’t conform to what we “want” to believe. What is, is.
Raised Christian, converted to Islam, now im at a point where i believe in God i just dont have a religion.
Interesting how people come to different conclusions like John Walton for example, who also has an extensive background in the ANE, yet hasn't left Christianity.
Or John Warwick Montgomery, who had a double major at Cornell in classics & philosophy. He converted to Christianity after reading C.S. Lewis, among other people.
Lewis influenced by Tolkien argued that Christianity has mythical patterns, archetypes & tropes, but is historically true.
Evidence is the way to truth .
Loved this. I've been fascinated for months by deconstruction stories. I've never even been christened/baptised etc.
Blessed are those who told yu Good news and yu refused.
So at the JUDGEMENT day yu will gladly receive yur reward coz it is a great Sin to say to CHRIST that no One told yu HE HIS the SALVATION.
Preaching fear and threats as always. lol@@mwola
@siriusfun When HE LORD JESUS CHRIST shall descend upon Holy Mount Sinai;
Then yur descendants will hide in clefts of the rock.
Book of prophet ISAIAH 2:21
Excellent interview, Richard C Miller is so clear and seems very sincere. I think more details about Romulus/Jesus parallels would be great to hear about in near future.