Paul Morrison really appreciate your support Paul 🙏🙏. And congratulations on the new FTP - that’s a huge increase 👌💪. And with the resultant increase in your power training zones, more progression is sure to come 👍
Another day and another Phil inspired ramp test which has seen my FTP increase to 250W. Keep doing what you do as you’re inspiring people to be the best version of themselves 👍🏾
This is the best video on the subject, most people don't understand the difference. The Zwift ramp test over estimates my 'real' world ftp by 13% when compared to a 40 min balls out TT. That renders the ramp test useless for me, unless I deduct 13% from it. There's no way I could train in the zones generated by the ramp test.
Cheers Thelma 🙏 - I’m the same as you 💯. I too love the 40min -60min power test - which has much more applicability in the real world on the TTs or climbs . If I used the inflated ramp FTP, I’d end up falling short on quite a lot of the training which would be demotivating and counterproductive ! 👍
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy totally, it's nice for the ego, but ultimately bollocks imho apparently it's accurate for some people, but I reckon they're not trying hard enough if it works 😂😂😂
jasperricca thanks so much 🙏🙏. And my view remains the same, that the 20min test preceded by the 5min VO2 max effort is the most accurate. I have a vid with an unusual ramp test launching later in the week or the weekend. And if you like the Chanel and havent subscribed - would be super grateful. Always happy to chat in the comments 🙏👍
Leslie Alldridge Thanks Leslie - really appreciate you supporting the channel 🙏 - we have loads more videos in edit and plenty of ideas for the autumn and winter 👍
3 days in Zwift on a free month provided by my first interactive trainer (Neo 2T). Back on bicycling since September after many years off. Started again with my new Touring eBike that I got to make me go out again without worries of getting really exhausted as I live in a very hilly/mountainous area. After 1700km on the eBike on the lowest support level or off (it weighs 28 kilos!!) with pleasure and enjoyment I bought the Neo 2T and got my Cervelo RS from the storage area. And this very tall and thin and underpowered rider on his 44+ year decided to do an FTP Ramp Test and got 193 Watts! And the fun part was that I really found it great fun and uplifting as you said. I know that the value might not be 100% accurate and thats OK, but for me to feel all my improvement without any really structured training, this was magical! 5 months ago I could hardly do 25km without blowing, mentally first. So kudos to eBikes (when used correctly), to cycling in general, all the technology like Zwift and your perfect video I enjoyed so much :))
Hi Stan - thanks ever so much for reaching out 🙏 And apologies for the delay in my reply - for some reason I didn’t see your comment before an operation to remove my appendix. I’m super pleased to hear you have got back into cycling via the e-bike - and that’s some serious progress to make in such a short time 💪✊. The ramp test is indeed extremely exhilarating - and I’m guessing you’ve continued to progress over the last 2 weeks? I’m 46, and for me cycling is fund and empowering - because we can take control over our health and fitness and enjoy the little steps of progression💯. Enjoy your renaissance - and please do subscribe it you like the content 🙏 - plenty more to come
Thanks!! Massively appreciated. Normally I train on the low fat low carb protein shake plus a coffee. But for the 1 hour FTP (or a race) I’ll have a cup of oats and some dried fruit before hand, and after about 30mins into the 1hour FTP I had a High 5 energy gel which had 90cals from 23g of carbs.
Thank you, looks like you're on point with your health :) having that kind of power on a low carb diet is really good. Keep the good work with your videos!
The steeper the power curve, the higher the FTP from the shorter test, and the lower from the longer test. The best solution, apart from lab test, seems to be doing separate tests for 20 minute, 5 minute and 1 minute peak power and training using custom zones.
Michal Wozniak I’d agree with that Michal - I think for setting training zones the 20min test is optimal. But to really assess peak 1 and 5min - they are best hit on their own an monstered 💪😁
And from some Cycling Analytics data I was perusing recently, it appears men have steeper power curves than women - their physiology is more advantageous for sprinting and short high-power bursts.
I do an hour long free ride tt on tempus fugit every other day and use other people's efforts trying to beat me as stimulus to maintain my effort, essentially an ftp test every other day, which I throughly enjoy, being a masochistic time triallist. My FTP is 266 with a weight of 11 st 2 lb. I am 62 years old at the end of the month. To me the hour long test is the only true ftp test and other tests are not the real McCoy. Continual peak training, I believe, has allowed me to maintain my max heart rate of 187 bpm and a threshold of around 170 bpm which is very high, related to my advancing years, use it or lose it !
Steve - massive respect to you on maintaining such an impressive level of fitness, including peak heart rate✊. I too enjoy the 1 hour test, and as soon as the local cycling circuit is back open I tend to do a few more outside. I think the more you do the better you get at pacing it. I recently (November 2020) live streamed the 1 hour FTP test (again on Tempus Fugit) and was getting stronger as the test went on. But the next day I filmed the max effort climb up Leith Hill, and had a very good climb, and think the hour of max power provided for mental fortitude as well as fitness💯. I look forward to seeing you on Tempus soon 👍
one detail. In the protocol of ramp test (it might be a bug in zwift), I read that you are supposed to take 75% of the last plateau you fulfilled completely. 75% of 380W = 285W. pretty close to your 20min FTP test. Great summary of the 3 tests. nice work
Thanks Vincent - that’s very kind of you 🙏. And what you say makes good sense. Zwift seems to run a rolling 1 min average. Oddly enough the only time I’ve done the ramp test since is in May on my video “How I Increased My FTP” where I completed the full 1min at 400W and then stopped - and it gave me a 300W FTP which was very close to my then 20min FTP of 299W. So what you are saying correlates 👍
Thank You for the video. I just completed the Zwift FTP test, and last week Zwift Ramp test. I agree with your conclusions. I think the tests provided are available and reproductible to assess your power progression.
antonin flavian Apologies for the delay in my reply, Antonio! UA-cam didn’t notify me! I very much still agree with the conclusion here - and your own. I think the 20min test is best for setting all the training power zones, in order to encourage progression. It does take a supremely good legs day for me to hit the FTP Power during a 1 hour effort 🤪.
Great video. Just a thought, you're likely getting a lower result on the 60min FTP because of pacing as mentioned and that you're a more anaerobic athlete. However, I'd guess that a huge portion of it is you seem to be DRAMATICALLY under fan'd. Indoor riding needs far more cooling than most realize. Top Zwift races use two or three industrial blowers and air conditioning. Powerful enough to basically need glasses. It will help you train and race harder.
Ketzal Sterling Thanks so much Ketzal 🙏👍 - and sorry for the delay in my reply, I didn’t get the YouTub notification. I do agree its about the pacing. Its hard to ride solo for 1 hour and time it such that nothing is left in the tank at the end. I find that indoors or outdoors it take a race of 1 hour to get my max power (whether normalised or average). So my recent 20min FTP has been about 299W - and in a 1 hour crit I’ll average 290-295W normalised; and on a 1 hour Zwift climbing race c295-300W. I do need to invest in a new fan also! If you like the Chanel, please do subscribe - I’d be super grateful 💯🙏
Plus one for this. At zone 2 power I can see my heart rate drop 5-10 beats by turning on my single inadequate fan. Also, significantly delays hr drift.
Hi Phil. Been watching Ed Laverack lately and UA-cam algo started recommending your videos which I'm enjoying. I've got a dumb trainer and have only done the 20-minute test. It seems like the best middle ground as you say. Nice to see your video and thoughts on the tests. I was interested to learn what the point of the 5-minute vo2max interval before the 20-min test was. I figured it was too get your body "in the mode", so good to have my assumption corrected. Subscribed.
Thanks so much for supporting the channel, Peter! Hugely appreciated. Ed's channel is crammed full of loads of incredible knowledge and insight - plus he's an amazing coach! But for sure even after last weeks comparison of tests for 2020 - the 20min test remains the most appropriate for setting your training zones, and setting the efforts in my view. However for the longer climbs (40mins or more) I have found it useful to know what my 1 hour power is - because I can then pace those more realistically, and avoid blowing out too much at the start. Ed's view on the 5 min effort that it's more there to warm you up - but I reckon it takes a bit of the zip out your legs for the 20min effort!
Thanks so much for doing this study and sharing it with us! One often wonders how the various FTP methods compare. For the ramp test, the 75% factor is clearly optimistic and most riders should probably use 70% at most. But I still consider all of these tests "stone age" and am looking forward to someone coming up with a reliable FTP calculation method that does not require the subject to run themselves to exhaustion. I get FTP and VO2 max estimates from my Garmin (using both power and heart rate sensors) at the end of each ride, and it's quite consistent and seems close to reality - even if I hate to admit it's right.
Thanks ever so much Marianne 🙏- I had all the same questions hence the little experiment. And as it happens in the build up to La Marmotte (last Saturday) I did a lab test which measures VO2 Max / blood sugar - and the point at which e body converts to using mainly glycogen / and lactate - in order to accurately calculate my anaerobic threshold, lactate threshold and VO2 max. The results are very interesting - and as you will see different to these tests. And the blood does not lie !
Cheers Tobias - that’s super kind of you 🙏And 5x!!! 💪. As it happens I did a little series of 3 videos around this time last year - 20min test on a live stream; 60min test on a live stream and then the ramp - in a little video . So you’ll be able to see how I fared 👍
I wouldn't say the hour test is "Unlikely" to overstate FTP, it cannot overstate it by definition :P Atleast for the condition you were on for that given day. I've had days where i'm on an absolute flyer and seem to have an extra 5-10w on my threshold. Did a 20 minute test on one of these days, scoring 328w, but had to dial my actual FTP calculation back to around 305 (rather than the 313w 95%), as it was a certain over-estimate and too high for other intervals. Fantastic video by the way, just discovered your channel and loving the content! My favourite test is actually none of the dedicated tests, as I routinely suck at them, normally by mucking up pacing and thus getting demotivated when I suddenly get 7-8 minutes in and realised I've paced it off of a 10-15 minute best effort, and I've built up too much fatigue to adapt down. What I tend to use these days is my best 20 minute efforts from Zwift races, as I can see a clear correlation in their improvement, and these tend to sit somewhere between FTP and the 20 minute test, but are a great basis for training, as I know its a 20 minute effort I can repeat week in week out. Similarly, doing up to 10 minute best efforts has become nice. I used to hate them, for all the same reasons of setting out too hard, but I appear to be able to pace these better now. Intervals.icu is also great at modelling FTP based on a range of best efforts from your whole power curve, using a critical power model. Though I am also stronger on the anaerobic/VO2max front, so need to set the minimum effort threshold to 7 minutes+ (default is 3 min) so that it doesn't over-estimate based on shorter efforts. Another marker I use is my performance over a 3x7-8 minute session. Not so much for testing FTP, as these can improve more independently, but I find these to be a great measure of my improvement in general and how far up I have pushed my ceiling, indicating I have room for my FTP to grow from underneath, without too much more horrible VO2max needed :P
Thanks so much for your very kind support MishMash 🙏 - and also for the insight you provide in this comment. I agree with your comment on the 1hour test , and also the need to guage your FTP off a range of different efforts / rides accross the month. Ed Laverack who coaches me uses a model like the one you linked - to calculate my 60min 20min 10min 5min 1min and 10sec power - both fresh and fatigued. Also to your point the Zwift races are often c1 hour - and the faster flat ones are a pretty good guage of FTP if averaged out (which Zwift Power kindly does!), whilst the ones with longer climbs are basically require a max effort up each ascent for 15-45mins, and all provide a great insight on this subject. As such like you, I rarely undertake an FTP test - but oddly enough may do one in a week or 2 just out of curiosity. Much appreciated Phill 👍
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy Awesome stuff! I found your channel through Ed's videos :) All the best with your efforts in the future, perhaps I'll bump into you in a surrey-league break-away next year, haha.
I only do the one hour test, as hard as it is, it’s really the only honest FTP test on ZWIFT as far as I’m concerned (Honest to oneself, a high number feeds the ego, a realistic number gets you training harder for the number the ego wants)
Mr Nobody the more I get into cycling, the more I’m inclined to agree. I’m going to try a 1 hr FTP outdoors in the not too distant future on the London Velo Circuit
Bike Racing Without Mercy I think it’s a great tool to have, I don’t ride on road I’m actually a MTB rider, but training on zwift has enabled me to understand my body better so when I do ride outdoors I always get new PR’s and have a really good ride. Just need a Power meter for the MTB to pace correctly. I’m going to redo my FTP test in April after I finish the 12 week FTP builder and 4week FTP Booster plans, hopefully there will be a another increase in the FTP, I’ve also dropped about 15kg so far this YTD I think that’s affected my max power output so not sure how that will relate into the real world on a MTB but perhaps less weight and slightly lower max wattage is actually better than more weight and higher max power. Awesome video by the way, you hit 202bpm at one point which is incredible, shows you have good muscular flexibility :)
Mr Nobody thanks so much - hugely appreciated. That’s a really good weight loss - and will certainly reduce your absolute power. However if your power to weight is increasing then that must be the thing that counts most for MTB?
Mr Nobody Just did the 1hr FTP outside on a closed circuit (undulating and with plenty of cornering). Average power 263W (4.0W/kg) and Normalised 273W (4.2W/kg). So normalised in line with my 1 hr FTP inside.
Excellent analysis of the Zwift 3 FTP tests I’ve had more or less the same experience. Zwift should add your vid to their own website, for small fee of course !😊.. thank you 🙏
Thanks ever so much for your very kind comment, Mike 🙏 It’s really interesting to hear that your own practical experience aligns with mine 👍 . To this day I think the 20min test is best, and I repeated the experiment once again in November via x2 live streams and also a round up vlog. Very best of luck with your training and progression - and do reach out any time 👍
Enjoyed this one. I find that I can perform better on the 20 minute test as opposed to the ramp. FTP using the ramp test is creaping up towards matching my best 20min saying that it must be just the kind of rider I am.
Thanks Jonathan 🙏 - and I do agree that we all have different physiologies, and therefore a propensity to do better on one test vs another. I think if the 20min test is giving you good power zones for training , and the progression is gradually coming - then always best to stay consistent and use the same test 💯👍
Great job do 3 ftp test! I self do ftp test 20 minutes and count 92% of that and no VO2 max and it seem fit well with my training zones. Step test I see overestimate a little but it good training and the result is good for your ego :). One hour test I only done outside and that was very heavy do and easy fail in if you go to hard in beginning.
Thanks so much Petinka - and I’m encouraged to see your experience is in line with my own. I too love the one hour test - but am in total agreement, you need to pace it very well indeed! I reckon 92% of my 20min power is about right to estimate my 1hr threshold power 👍
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy The motor racing had been on hiatus a few years due to a multitude of reasons. I made a decision 4 years ago to do something about my health, aged 50 and morbidly obese. I used to be a bicyclist. So I have returned to cycling and do CrossFit as well and have lost 90 lbs. Now I have gotten a trainer (Neo 2) and discovered Zwift. Learning about FTP, vs sprint power or even 3 minute power. Enjoyed the work you put into comparing the 3 most common tests.
Don't you think the ramp test favors people who can put down the high power 3-5 minute surges? I like it because of the pacing element, no guesswork. Trainer in Erg mode and just ride the number, one minute at time.
Jim Davenport Jim - thats one incredible transformation ✊💪💯 And like you I found Zwift later on (I’m 45) - but whats amazed me vs other training, is the ability to make sustained rapid improvements in both cardiovascular capability and body composition. I’ve found the cycling is so much easier to recover from than running or intensive weight training. Thanks for subscribing - higely appreciated 🙏🙏
Jim Davenport agreed, the Ramp places too much emphasis on the VO2 max power zone, which is only a small factor when trying to establish what your max power over the hour is. As your say, because the pacing is so controlled and consistent, the ramp is an amazing test to evaluate progression. And I’ve become a firm advocate of polarised training (80% zone 1 & 2 and 20% zone 5-7), because I’ve learnt that building your top end power zones will help you improve recovery and also drag up zone 3 & 4 (and if you train too much in zone 3 & 4, you can compromise your recovery, and in turn slow the progression in zone 5-7) . As a CrossFitter you’ll be fully cognisant of the benefits of HIIT and intensity 💯👍
Your 20min Test resulted in an FTP of 282W from that 95% calculation. Your Ramp Test on the other has resulted in an FTP of 297W, if the 95% calculation is also applied on the ramp test it also results in 282W. I know its not correct but could help reduce the exaggerated amount yielded by the ramp test which is very convenient and quicker. Just a thought...
Tshepiso Sehloho Thanks so much Tshepiso 🙏👍. You are correct the 20min FTP was calculated as 95% of the 20min power. Whilst the 297W FTP for the ramp was 75% of the final 1 minute power., it would be just as good to then reduce by another 5% ! And since then this level of discrepancy has been reasonably consistent. Nice and easy idea 👍👍. Thanks again
Matt Gilmour Thanks Matt - thats hugely appreciated 🙏. And I’m still of the same view - the Ramp is an superb measure of progress, and if you are improving your ramp, its likely your 20min power will have also increased. 👍
I'm not sure if you touch on certain studies, and I'm sorry but I just don't have 30 minutes to see for myself, but I'd like to point out a few important things about FTP tests: Different FTP tests are suited for different types of riders. Are you a sprinter with a lot of quick twitch muscle fibers? Then the shorter ramp test will probably give you the highest FTP number while the hour test the lowest. Are you a time trialist who can keep a relatively high power going for hours? Then the hour test is going to show your best numbers. And while certain FTP tests are more suited for certain types of riders, you have to take that into account as well. If you're a sprinter and can crush the short ramp test, is it giving you an honest FTP number? It's probably going to be a bit on the high side because you're "cheating" the test slightly. Also, taking the longer tests requires you to pace your effort, and that's not something most people are good at doing. I would say that the best FTP test would be the intermediate test, but after taking it three times at least because you're going to learn how to pace your effort. The intermediate test will be longer than the sprinters are used to doing, and the TT guys will have to increase their effort, making it probably the most effective test.
Cheers Airwave 🙏 - good to know the ramp also overestimated your FTP. I too have done a number of lab tests since this - and they always verify the same
Really useful video! I think there is a particular issue with the Zwift calculation of the Ramp Test as you highlighted. TrainerRoad who pioneered the test do 75% of your best completed minute which for you would've been 380*0.75=285 FTP which is only 3w higher that the 20min test which I think is great for such an accessible test. Perhaps a manual override of what Zwift sets your FTP as after a ramp test is a good solution?
zaragota thanks so much Zaragota🙏🙏. Fully agree - and Zwift does have a manual override, you just go into your personal data (the bit where you enter your weight etc) and can change your FTP there 👍. And I find that it takes a really good legs day in a race for me to get the average power in line with my 20min FTP Test. Sorry for the delay in my reply - I was I’ll last week. If you haven’t subscribed - it would be super appreciated if you could. Stay healthy 👍🤞
Ramp test used to plot HR against power and look for the point your HR deflects from a linear gain. This point is taken as you FTP. I'm guessing this changed as you kinda need someone to log your HR at the end of each ramp section.
Cheers Mark - I've not got into that kind of detail, but it does make sense to track a sudden divergence of HR from the linear gain in power. My preference remains the 20min test (preceded by the 5min effort) - because it's less prone to distortion caused by the Ramp being very anaerobic
Pacing can be a problem with the one hour and variations of the 20 minute tests; you sort of need to know your FTP... in order to determine your FTP. The ramp test takes you to exhaustion so you know that you put your maximum effort in. The tests that require pacing almost certainly leave watts on the table unless you completed it and were just starting to fail at the very end; evidence of this is that you put out significantly higher watts near the end of each test implying that you were not pushing hard enough throughout the test. That said I think we may have a physical FTP which is better assessed by the ramp test and a psychological FTP that is better assessed by the one hour test. However the only way to know is to take the ramp test FTP and apply it to the other tests.
Very interesting point you raise Brad 💯 And my Coach, Ed Laverack recently set me a Base Line FTP Test (see my video Laverack Coaching’s Baseline Fitness Test), where you ride for 10mins at 95% of current FTP, 15mins at current FTP and then there is a ramp to exhaustion at the end where the power increases every 3mins. The FTP is the average power over the duration. I think this gives the best of 2 worlds - removing the aerobic element of the test and making the rider go to full exhaustion. It’s a great test 💯
I guess you must bump slightly 1 hour ftp, as it always will be understated, as ftp itself basically is max power you can sustain for whole hour. Mine ftp from 20 min test is overestimated, as I cannon even think myself of riding it for full hour...
TheUnrevealer it’s a very good point you make. I’ve recently dropped a video on the 1 hour FTP. It’s actually much more doable outdoors. But I’ve not yet hit average Watt during the 1 hour test that are in line with my 20min test. However in the Hogg Hill outdoor crit races I’ve had 293W normalised (which was almost the same as my then FTP). Sorry for the delay - I didn’t get a UA-cam notification - and thanks for your support 🙏👍
Thank you very much for this informative video. I was looking forward to doing the ramp test and you have completely changed my mind. It looks nicer, quicker and simpler but will definitely lie to me and the programs i will follow subsequently. Just one question though, how long apart did you perform these test, was it a matter of days or weeks as the body tends to get a pounding from these extremely demanding exercises...?
Apologies for the delay in my reply Tshepiso, I didn't get the notification on my iPad from UA-cam. I had 1 day off between the 20min test followed by the Ramp Test, and then another 2 days off before the the 1 hour test. I still view the 20min test as the best of the 3. The Ramp is only about 15mins to complete, and only 3-4 mins are really hard. So it doesn't create a lot of Training Stress, hence the ability to try the 1 hour test 2 days later.
My pleasure, Vincent - so pleased to hear the video was useful. And 18months on I stand by the conclusion - the 20min test is the one I still think optimal !
This is great thanks. I’m torn between Wattbike atom and concept 2 bike erg. I’m 90% favouring c2 as more simple for all family to use. Anyhow - would the c2 work ok on these tests. I’m just getting to understand the benefits of this type of training.
Hi Kevin - thanks so much 🙏. I have no experience with the Concept 2 bike, so can only comment on the WattBike. It’s easy to adjust seat height and handlebar position for the family. And it syncs very easily via ant+ or Bluetooth to the Zwift App / WattBike Hub App / RGT app on the computer or iPad. It doesn’t require any calibration either. It was the plan for Jayne to use it - but in reality she hasn’t - preferring to use the standard gym equipment such as cross trainer, treadmill and concept bikes. Hope this helps 👍
Good, Thanks. People get angry when I tell them that most people can't sustain their 20 minute FTP test over an Hour. Unless you are a TTer or you have conditioned yourself to do that. Thank for the video.
I'm very sorry for the delay in my reply Artur - I didn't get the notification from UA-cam to my iPad. I agree, my current FTP from a 20min test is 299, and I've only ridden to it 2x over an hour during climbing races on Zwift (in 3.5 months). And that was normalised power of 295 in an outdoor crit with a steep climb 297 on a race which included Alp Du Zwift (1 hour 6mins). To complete a 1 hour TT to your 20min FTP solo, is very hard. I did another comparison in one of the VLOGS when my 20min FTP was 294W. My 1 hour outdoor power was 284W
Hello Phil, I used to be into bodybuilding like yourself, how do you lose some of that muscle, I feel like I'm too bulky for climbs and could do with ditching some muscle, any pointers?
Sorry for the delay HB - super busy at work. I carried on in the gym, but focus only on the compound lifts and and retaining good movement patters and developing power and strength. And the extra KMs on the bike takes care of the rest to create a small calorie deficit. I gradually built up the distance and also added in 2-3 intense trainings in zone 5 and 6 or a Zwift Race.
nad sim Nad. - apologies I’d thought I’d replied. I’ll eat a cup of oats with some dried cranberries mixed up with some whey protein and almond milk. I also had an energy gell at about 30mins.
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy yeah thanks for the answer and no pb man, i saw you replied before but as a new comment. Keep the good work and have a great day :)
Prawle I think the W/kg from the 20min test is as good a measure of threshold and the ability to sustain power over 1 hour - without riding a well paced 1 hour. I find that on a good day, my normalised power in a 1hr crit race with a decent climb in the circuit is close to my 20min FTP. And on a couple of longer climbing races on Zwift I have produced 1hr+ average power within 2-3W. In a 20min race you should be some way over the 20min FTP - c20W or so for me on the Crit City circuit on Zwift.
윤동민 thank you for watching. I use a smart bike called The WattBike Atom. I have a video called Ultimate Test: Zwift and WattBike vs Peleton where I show you my bike and compare it to a Peleton. I very much like the WattBike Atom. 🙏🙏
Hi Jayantrao - never ERG for the 20min or 60min FTP test, because its your best power on the day, and you won’t know what it is until after, so would set the ERG too high or too low. But always ERG for the Ramp Test - because it’s ridden to failure on the highest ramp you can achieve 👍
Hi Slava - nice decision to take up cycling, and for sure that’s an excellent place to start💯 Consistent structured training (with sufficient low intensity recover rides and fulls days of rest) plus good nutrition will enable you to build on it 👍
Thanks Phil- my plan is to use some of your workouts from your video about the top 5 zwift workouts to build endurance and than to the a race or FTP test (alternating each week) on Saturdays than do a very light recovery session on Sunday and repeat.
Nice plan Slava - if you check out some of my training vlogs the last 8months you’ll see a number of Coach Ed Laverack’s training sessions, which have really helped me a lot. I enjoyed the polarised approach to training (which was before my current endurance / tempo phase). This comprised 2-3 hard interval sessions each week (targeting VO2 Max or Anaerobic power (eg 5x5mins; 3x3mins x3; 60:30s; 40:20s and 30:15s). And then 2 days of low intensity zone 2 and 2 full rest days. Key is being well recovered to go as hard as possible on the hard interval days. If you take a look at a number of my training vlogs you’ll see quite a lot of vids charting the different variations of zone 5-6 intervals used - and also the nutrition and recovery rides 👍
Cheers DS - and back when I filmed this, I think my breathing was too shallow on the longer efforts. In recent videos outdoors (eg the Haute Route Videos) when at tempo or threshold you’ll usually see me riding with a relaxed face but wide open mouth - to really suck the oxygen in deep and expel the CO2 hard !
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy interesting. Was reflecting on this after commenting and I think I've had a similar path - starting to breathe deeper as I've developed. Although not sure if this is a function or fitness - ie as I get fitter breathing improves - or improved technique/pacing. Bit of both I expect..
Ahhh Jim - I too enjoy watching other people push into the red on their live streams 💯😁 I’m in agreement on there being no shortcuts ! Good luck with your training 🍀
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy What is your max sprint power? I can hit 1300W with my arthritic knee but my ftp is only 200W ish. I really struggle at high cadence too. What should I concentrate my training on to improve ftp? Just do TTs?
Allan Dybro Allan - apologies for the delay. I didn’t get a notification from UA-cam. It’s 189 (and has come up from 180 under Ed’s polarised training). I’ve had 186 for 1 min on some of the Zwift climbing races.....
Allan Dybro understood. I was advised that HR tends to lag, hence the move to power. But I guess the trick is find a method that works for you personally, stay consistent and measure the gradual progression 👍
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy Power is as I see it, much better then HR to use when training. But HR is better when you create the workouts and control the value of a workout. HR is easier to compare with mmol at LT1 and LT2. And when creating workouts the most importen is minuts in the targetzone. The targetzone is typical under LT1 or over LT2. And there I know my estimated HR (estimated by Stephen Seiler) Eg is the best zone to train endurance between 88-92% of maxHR (lots of videos on the net). That information I use to find/hit the optimal power in eg 4x8 minuts intervals (Seilers famous intervals). My FTP can rise and I can follow the HR and correct the powerlevel ongoing. Thats what I meen by calibrate my workouts, based on power but calibrated by using my HRmax
Allan Dybro thanks for sharing that Allan - it’s extremely insightful and interesting. I’m definitely going to look into this now in some detail. Because I’m targeting some endurance events like La Marmotte (albeit for understandable reasons they are likely to be cancelled). Hugely appreciate you taking the time to take me through this 🙏🙏
Cheers Kelvin 🙏. Even though this wasn’t my best, I do love the hour of power 👌. I recently did it again, impromptu on a live stream up Mont Ventoux. I think it’s great for fitness and also building confidence about being able to sustain threshold 👍
Great vid 👍 Watching you suffer inspired me to do a ramp test this morning and my FTP increased from 201 to 227
Paul Morrison really appreciate your support Paul 🙏🙏. And congratulations on the new FTP - that’s a huge increase 👌💪. And with the resultant increase in your power training zones, more progression is sure to come 👍
Another day and another Phil inspired ramp test which has seen my FTP increase to 250W. Keep doing what you do as you’re inspiring people to be the best version of themselves 👍🏾
No no no, my FTP increased by 10 watts only by watching the video
This is the best video on the subject, most people don't understand the difference. The Zwift ramp test over estimates my 'real' world ftp by 13% when compared to a 40 min balls out TT. That renders the ramp test useless for me, unless I deduct 13% from it. There's no way I could train in the zones generated by the ramp test.
Cheers Thelma 🙏 - I’m the same as you 💯. I too love the 40min -60min power test - which has much more applicability in the real world on the TTs or climbs . If I used the inflated ramp FTP, I’d end up falling short on quite a lot of the training which would be demotivating and counterproductive ! 👍
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy totally, it's nice for the ego, but ultimately bollocks imho apparently it's accurate for some people, but I reckon they're not trying hard enough if it works 😂😂😂
Instant sub. Great work. Love the channel name as well
Cheers David 🙏 - really appreciate your positive energy and subscription 💯. Have a great weekend
The best evaluation and presentation of the 3 types of FTP tests. Your summaries were very insightful. Thank You so much.
jasperricca thanks so much 🙏🙏. And my view remains the same, that the 20min test preceded by the 5min VO2 max effort is the most accurate. I have a vid with an unusual ramp test launching later in the week or the weekend. And if you like the Chanel and havent subscribed - would be super grateful. Always happy to chat in the comments 🙏👍
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy Thanks. I already am subscribed and look forward to your upcoming video.
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy subbed
Leslie Alldridge Thanks Leslie - really appreciate you supporting the channel 🙏 - we have loads more videos in edit and plenty of ideas for the autumn and winter 👍
3 days in Zwift on a free month provided by my first interactive trainer (Neo 2T). Back on bicycling since September after many years off. Started again with my new Touring eBike that I got to make me go out again without worries of getting really exhausted as I live in a very hilly/mountainous area. After 1700km on the eBike on the lowest support level or off (it weighs 28 kilos!!) with pleasure and enjoyment I bought the Neo 2T and got my Cervelo RS from the storage area. And this very tall and thin and underpowered rider on his 44+ year decided to do an FTP Ramp Test and got 193 Watts! And the fun part was that I really found it great fun and uplifting as you said. I know that the value might not be 100% accurate and thats OK, but for me to feel all my improvement without any really structured training, this was magical! 5 months ago I could hardly do 25km without blowing, mentally first. So kudos to eBikes (when used correctly), to cycling in general, all the technology like Zwift and your perfect video I enjoyed so much :))
Hi Stan - thanks ever so much for reaching out 🙏 And apologies for the delay in my reply - for some reason I didn’t see your comment before an operation to remove my appendix. I’m super pleased to hear you have got back into cycling via the e-bike - and that’s some serious progress to make in such a short time 💪✊. The ramp test is indeed extremely exhilarating - and I’m guessing you’ve continued to progress over the last 2 weeks? I’m 46, and for me cycling is fund and empowering - because we can take control over our health and fitness and enjoy the little steps of progression💯. Enjoy your renaissance - and please do subscribe it you like the content 🙏 - plenty more to come
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy I'm already subscribed from that day! Hope you're better now after the appendix removal!
@@stamK. thanks ever so much Stam! The op went smoothly and I’m now feeling a lot better. Still not back riding yet
Thanks!! Massively appreciated. Normally I train on the low fat low carb protein shake plus a coffee. But for the 1 hour FTP (or a race) I’ll have a cup of oats and some dried fruit before hand, and after about 30mins into the 1hour FTP I had a High 5 energy gel which had 90cals from 23g of carbs.
Thank you, looks like you're on point with your health :) having that kind of power on a low carb diet is really good.
Keep the good work with your videos!
The steeper the power curve, the higher the FTP from the shorter test, and the lower from the longer test. The best solution, apart from lab test, seems to be doing separate tests for 20 minute, 5 minute and 1 minute peak power and training using custom zones.
Michal Wozniak I’d agree with that Michal - I think for setting training zones the 20min test is optimal. But to really assess peak 1 and 5min - they are best hit on their own an monstered 💪😁
And from some Cycling Analytics data I was perusing recently, it appears men have steeper power curves than women - their physiology is more advantageous for sprinting and short high-power bursts.
I do an hour long free ride tt on tempus fugit every other day and use other people's efforts trying to beat me as stimulus to maintain my effort, essentially an ftp test every other day, which I throughly enjoy, being a masochistic time triallist. My FTP is 266 with a weight of 11 st 2 lb. I am 62 years old at the end of the month. To me the hour long test is the only true ftp test and other tests are not the real McCoy. Continual peak training, I believe, has allowed me to maintain my max heart rate of 187 bpm and a threshold of around 170 bpm which is very high, related to my advancing years, use it or lose it !
Steve - massive respect to you on maintaining such an impressive level of fitness, including peak heart rate✊. I too enjoy the 1 hour test, and as soon as the local cycling circuit is back open I tend to do a few more outside. I think the more you do the better you get at pacing it. I recently (November 2020) live streamed the 1 hour FTP test (again on Tempus Fugit) and was getting stronger as the test went on. But the next day I filmed the max effort climb up Leith Hill, and had a very good climb, and think the hour of max power provided for mental fortitude as well as fitness💯. I look forward to seeing you on Tempus soon 👍
Steve! You are a real athlete! Jeepers! Envious of your FTP but you certainly have earned it. You have my respect and admiration. 👍
👍well done. too many people ignore the start vo2 of the 20min and so get inflated results, as you said.
Cheers Paul 🙏 - and indeed it does make a difference . 20mins is the best of the tests...but I do find myself hankering after a 1hour test
one detail. In the protocol of ramp test (it might be a bug in zwift), I read that you are supposed to take 75% of the last plateau you fulfilled completely. 75% of 380W = 285W. pretty close to your 20min FTP test. Great summary of the 3 tests. nice work
Thanks Vincent - that’s very kind of you 🙏. And what you say makes good sense. Zwift seems to run a rolling 1 min average. Oddly enough the only time I’ve done the ramp test since is in May on my video “How I Increased My FTP” where I completed the full 1min at 400W and then stopped - and it gave me a 300W FTP which was very close to my then 20min FTP of 299W. So what you are saying correlates 👍
The last time I did ramp and 20 minute a week apart I got results separated from each other by 2w
I got 245 on 20 and 243 on Ramp.
Thank You for the video. I just completed the Zwift FTP test, and last week Zwift Ramp test. I agree with your conclusions. I think the tests provided are available and reproductible to assess your power progression.
antonin flavian Apologies for the delay in my reply, Antonio! UA-cam didn’t notify me! I very much still agree with the conclusion here - and your own. I think the 20min test is best for setting all the training power zones, in order to encourage progression. It does take a supremely good legs day for me to hit the FTP
Power during a 1 hour effort 🤪.
Cheers! Will do - just posted a new race. And have loads of new stuff ready to come
Great video. Just a thought, you're likely getting a lower result on the 60min FTP because of pacing as mentioned and that you're a more anaerobic athlete. However, I'd guess that a huge portion of it is you seem to be DRAMATICALLY under fan'd. Indoor riding needs far more cooling than most realize. Top Zwift races use two or three industrial blowers and air conditioning. Powerful enough to basically need glasses. It will help you train and race harder.
Ketzal Sterling Thanks so much Ketzal 🙏👍 - and sorry for the delay in my reply, I didn’t get the YouTub notification. I do agree its about the pacing. Its hard to ride solo for 1 hour and time it such that nothing is left in the tank at the end. I find that indoors or outdoors it take a race of 1 hour to get my max power (whether normalised or average). So my recent 20min FTP has been about 299W - and in a 1 hour crit I’ll average 290-295W normalised; and on a 1 hour Zwift climbing race c295-300W. I do need to invest in a new fan also! If you like the Chanel, please do subscribe - I’d be super grateful 💯🙏
Plus one for this. At zone 2 power I can see my heart rate drop 5-10 beats by turning on my single inadequate fan. Also, significantly delays hr drift.
Hi Phil. Been watching Ed Laverack lately and UA-cam algo started recommending your videos which I'm enjoying. I've got a dumb trainer and have only done the 20-minute test. It seems like the best middle ground as you say. Nice to see your video and thoughts on the tests.
I was interested to learn what the point of the 5-minute vo2max interval before the 20-min test was. I figured it was too get your body "in the mode", so good to have my assumption corrected.
Subscribed.
Thanks so much for supporting the channel, Peter! Hugely appreciated. Ed's channel is crammed full of loads of incredible knowledge and insight - plus he's an amazing coach! But for sure even after last weeks comparison of tests for 2020 - the 20min test remains the most appropriate for setting your training zones, and setting the efforts in my view. However for the longer climbs (40mins or more) I have found it useful to know what my 1 hour power is - because I can then pace those more realistically, and avoid blowing out too much at the start. Ed's view on the 5 min effort that it's more there to warm you up - but I reckon it takes a bit of the zip out your legs for the 20min effort!
Thanks so much for doing this study and sharing it with us! One often wonders how the various FTP methods compare. For the ramp test, the 75% factor is clearly optimistic and most riders should probably use 70% at most.
But I still consider all of these tests "stone age" and am looking forward to someone coming up with a reliable FTP calculation method that does not require the subject to run themselves to exhaustion. I get FTP and VO2 max estimates from my Garmin (using both power and heart rate sensors) at the end of each ride, and it's quite consistent and seems close to reality - even if I hate to admit it's right.
Thanks ever so much Marianne 🙏- I had all the same questions hence the little experiment. And as it happens in the build up to La Marmotte (last Saturday) I did a lab test which measures VO2 Max / blood sugar - and the point at which e body converts to using mainly glycogen / and lactate - in order to accurately calculate my anaerobic threshold, lactate threshold and VO2 max. The results are very interesting - and as you will see different to these tests. And the blood does not lie !
Great Video Phil. Im Watching it for the 5th Time. Maybe its time for a Repetition :-)
Cheers
Cheers Tobias - that’s super kind of you 🙏And 5x!!! 💪. As it happens I did a little series of 3 videos around this time last year - 20min test on a live stream; 60min test on a live stream and then the ramp - in a little video . So you’ll be able to see how I fared 👍
I wouldn't say the hour test is "Unlikely" to overstate FTP, it cannot overstate it by definition :P Atleast for the condition you were on for that given day. I've had days where i'm on an absolute flyer and seem to have an extra 5-10w on my threshold. Did a 20 minute test on one of these days, scoring 328w, but had to dial my actual FTP calculation back to around 305 (rather than the 313w 95%), as it was a certain over-estimate and too high for other intervals.
Fantastic video by the way, just discovered your channel and loving the content!
My favourite test is actually none of the dedicated tests, as I routinely suck at them, normally by mucking up pacing and thus getting demotivated when I suddenly get 7-8 minutes in and realised I've paced it off of a 10-15 minute best effort, and I've built up too much fatigue to adapt down. What I tend to use these days is my best 20 minute efforts from Zwift races, as I can see a clear correlation in their improvement, and these tend to sit somewhere between FTP and the 20 minute test, but are a great basis for training, as I know its a 20 minute effort I can repeat week in week out. Similarly, doing up to 10 minute best efforts has become nice. I used to hate them, for all the same reasons of setting out too hard, but I appear to be able to pace these better now. Intervals.icu is also great at modelling FTP based on a range of best efforts from your whole power curve, using a critical power model. Though I am also stronger on the anaerobic/VO2max front, so need to set the minimum effort threshold to 7 minutes+ (default is 3 min) so that it doesn't over-estimate based on shorter efforts.
Another marker I use is my performance over a 3x7-8 minute session. Not so much for testing FTP, as these can improve more independently, but I find these to be a great measure of my improvement in general and how far up I have pushed my ceiling, indicating I have room for my FTP to grow from underneath, without too much more horrible VO2max needed :P
Thanks so much for your very kind support MishMash 🙏 - and also for the insight you provide in this comment. I agree with your comment on the 1hour test , and also the need to guage your FTP off a range of different efforts / rides accross the month. Ed Laverack who coaches me uses a model like the one you linked - to calculate my 60min 20min 10min 5min 1min and 10sec power - both fresh and fatigued. Also to your point the Zwift races are often c1 hour - and the faster flat ones are a pretty good guage of FTP if averaged out (which Zwift Power kindly does!), whilst the ones with longer climbs are basically require a max effort up each ascent for 15-45mins, and all provide a great insight on this subject. As such like you, I rarely undertake an FTP test - but oddly enough may do one in a week or 2 just out of curiosity. Much appreciated Phill 👍
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy Awesome stuff! I found your channel through Ed's videos :)
All the best with your efforts in the future, perhaps I'll bump into you in a surrey-league break-away next year, haha.
I only do the one hour test, as hard as it is, it’s really the only honest FTP test on ZWIFT as far as I’m concerned (Honest to oneself, a high number feeds the ego, a realistic number gets you training harder for the number the ego wants)
Mr Nobody the more I get into cycling, the more I’m inclined to agree. I’m going to try a 1 hr FTP outdoors in the not too distant future on the London Velo Circuit
Bike Racing Without Mercy I think it’s a great tool to have, I don’t ride on road I’m actually a MTB rider, but training on zwift has enabled me to understand my body better so when I do ride outdoors I always get new PR’s and have a really good ride. Just need a Power meter for the MTB to pace correctly. I’m going to redo my FTP test in April after I finish the 12 week FTP builder and 4week FTP Booster plans, hopefully there will be a another increase in the FTP, I’ve also dropped about 15kg so far this YTD I think that’s affected my max power output so not sure how that will relate into the real world on a MTB but perhaps less weight and slightly lower max wattage is actually better than more weight and higher max power. Awesome video by the way, you hit 202bpm at one point which is incredible, shows you have good muscular flexibility :)
Mr Nobody thanks so much - hugely appreciated. That’s a really good weight loss - and will certainly reduce your absolute power. However if your power to weight is increasing then that must be the thing that counts most for MTB?
Mr Nobody Just did the 1hr FTP outside on a closed circuit (undulating and with plenty of cornering). Average power 263W (4.0W/kg) and Normalised 273W (4.2W/kg). So normalised in line with my 1 hr FTP inside.
Excellent analysis of the Zwift 3 FTP tests I’ve had more or less the same experience. Zwift should add your vid to their own website, for small fee of course !😊.. thank you 🙏
Thanks ever so much for your very kind comment, Mike 🙏 It’s really interesting to hear that your own practical experience aligns with mine 👍 . To this day I think the 20min test is best, and I repeated the experiment once again in November via x2 live streams and also a round up vlog. Very best of luck with your training and progression - and do reach out any time 👍
Enjoyed this one. I find that I can perform better on the 20 minute test as opposed to the ramp. FTP using the ramp test is creaping up towards matching my best 20min saying that it must be just the kind of rider I am.
Thanks Jonathan 🙏 - and I do agree that we all have different physiologies, and therefore a propensity to do better on one test vs another. I think if the 20min test is giving you good power zones for training , and the progression is gradually coming - then always best to stay consistent and use the same test 💯👍
I've got 2 industrial fans in winter, It boosts my performance, I perform better chilled.
100% Lenny - I had the door open for the first time today, and the lower room temp combined with the fan made for a lower HR and higher power !
Great job do 3 ftp test! I self do ftp test 20 minutes and count 92% of that and no VO2 max and it seem fit well with my training zones. Step test I see overestimate a little but it good training and the result is good for your ego :). One hour test I only done outside and that was very heavy do and easy fail in if you go to hard in beginning.
Thanks so much Petinka - and I’m encouraged to see your experience is in line with my own. I too love the one hour test - but am in total agreement, you need to pace it very well indeed! I reckon 92% of my 20min power is about right to estimate my 1hr threshold power 👍
Good Video. Nice to see all 3 compared in detail.
Jim Davenport thanks so much Jim🙏👍. Are you adding the cycling to your motor racing ?
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy The motor racing had been on hiatus a few years due to a multitude of reasons. I made a decision 4 years ago to do something about my health, aged 50 and morbidly obese. I used to be a bicyclist. So I have returned to cycling and do CrossFit as well and have lost 90 lbs. Now I have gotten a trainer (Neo 2) and discovered Zwift. Learning about FTP, vs sprint power or even 3 minute power. Enjoyed the work you put into comparing the 3 most common tests.
Don't you think the ramp test favors people who can put down the high power 3-5 minute surges? I like it because of the pacing element, no guesswork. Trainer in Erg mode and just ride the number, one minute at time.
Jim Davenport Jim - thats one incredible transformation ✊💪💯 And like you I found Zwift later on (I’m 45) - but whats amazed me vs other training, is the ability to make sustained rapid improvements in both cardiovascular capability and body composition. I’ve found the cycling is so much easier to recover from than running or intensive weight training. Thanks for subscribing - higely appreciated 🙏🙏
Jim Davenport agreed, the Ramp places too much emphasis on the VO2 max power zone, which is only a small factor when trying to establish what your max power over the hour is. As your say, because the pacing is so controlled and consistent, the ramp is an amazing test to evaluate progression. And I’ve become a firm advocate of polarised training (80% zone 1 & 2 and 20% zone 5-7), because I’ve learnt that building your top end power zones will help you improve recovery and also drag up zone 3 & 4 (and if you train too much in zone 3 & 4, you can compromise your recovery, and in turn slow the progression in zone 5-7) . As a CrossFitter you’ll be fully cognisant of the benefits of HIIT and intensity 💯👍
Your 20min Test resulted in an FTP of 282W from that 95% calculation. Your Ramp Test on the other has resulted in an FTP of 297W, if the 95% calculation is also applied on the ramp test it also results in 282W. I know its not correct but could help reduce the exaggerated amount yielded by the ramp test which is very convenient and quicker. Just a thought...
Tshepiso Sehloho Thanks so much Tshepiso 🙏👍. You are correct the 20min FTP was calculated as 95% of the 20min power. Whilst the 297W FTP for the ramp was 75% of the final 1 minute power., it would be just as good to then reduce by another 5% ! And since then this level of discrepancy has been reasonably consistent. Nice and easy idea 👍👍. Thanks again
Binge watching your videos and this was a good one 😁
Matt Gilmour Thanks Matt - thats hugely appreciated 🙏. And I’m still of the same view - the Ramp is an superb measure of progress, and if you are improving your ramp, its likely your 20min power will have also increased. 👍
I'm not sure if you touch on certain studies, and I'm sorry but I just don't have 30 minutes to see for myself, but I'd like to point out a few important things about FTP tests:
Different FTP tests are suited for different types of riders. Are you a sprinter with a lot of quick twitch muscle fibers? Then the shorter ramp test will probably give you the highest FTP number while the hour test the lowest. Are you a time trialist who can keep a relatively high power going for hours? Then the hour test is going to show your best numbers.
And while certain FTP tests are more suited for certain types of riders, you have to take that into account as well. If you're a sprinter and can crush the short ramp test, is it giving you an honest FTP number? It's probably going to be a bit on the high side because you're "cheating" the test slightly. Also, taking the longer tests requires you to pace your effort, and that's not something most people are good at doing. I would say that the best FTP test would be the intermediate test, but after taking it three times at least because you're going to learn how to pace your effort. The intermediate test will be longer than the sprinters are used to doing, and the TT guys will have to increase their effort, making it probably the most effective test.
Zwift ramp test gave ftp of 260w. I did a vo2max and lactate test in a sport medical center a few weeks later and that resulted in a ftp of 235w.
Cheers Airwave 🙏 - good to know the ramp also overestimated your FTP. I too have done a number of lab tests since this - and they always verify the same
Really useful video! I think there is a particular issue with the Zwift calculation of the Ramp Test as you highlighted. TrainerRoad who pioneered the test do 75% of your best completed minute which for you would've been 380*0.75=285 FTP which is only 3w higher that the 20min test which I think is great for such an accessible test. Perhaps a manual override of what Zwift sets your FTP as after a ramp test is a good solution?
zaragota thanks so much Zaragota🙏🙏. Fully agree - and Zwift does have a manual override, you just go into your personal data (the bit where you enter your weight etc) and can change your FTP there 👍. And I find that it takes a really good legs day in a race for me to get the average power in line with my 20min FTP Test. Sorry for the delay in my reply - I was I’ll last week. If you haven’t subscribed - it would be super appreciated if you could. Stay healthy 👍🤞
Ramp test used to plot HR against power and look for the point your HR deflects from a linear gain. This point is taken as you FTP. I'm guessing this changed as you kinda need someone to log your HR at the end of each ramp section.
Cheers Mark - I've not got into that kind of detail, but it does make sense to track a sudden divergence of HR from the linear gain in power. My preference remains the 20min test (preceded by the 5min effort) - because it's less prone to distortion caused by the Ramp being very anaerobic
Pacing can be a problem with the one hour and variations of the 20 minute tests; you sort of need to know your FTP... in order to determine your FTP. The ramp test takes you to exhaustion so you know that you put your maximum effort in. The tests that require pacing almost certainly leave watts on the table unless you completed it and were just starting to fail at the very end; evidence of this is that you put out significantly higher watts near the end of each test implying that you were not pushing hard enough throughout the test. That said I think we may have a physical FTP which is better assessed by the ramp test and a psychological FTP that is better assessed by the one hour test. However the only way to know is to take the ramp test FTP and apply it to the other tests.
Very interesting point you raise Brad 💯 And my Coach, Ed Laverack recently set me a Base Line FTP Test (see my video Laverack Coaching’s Baseline Fitness Test), where you ride for 10mins at 95% of current FTP, 15mins at current FTP and then there is a ramp to exhaustion at the end where the power increases every 3mins. The FTP is the average power over the duration. I think this gives the best of 2 worlds - removing the aerobic element of the test and making the rider go to full exhaustion. It’s a great test 💯
I guess you must bump slightly 1 hour ftp, as it always will be understated, as ftp itself basically is max power you can sustain for whole hour. Mine ftp from 20 min test is overestimated, as I cannon even think myself of riding it for full hour...
TheUnrevealer it’s a very good point you make. I’ve recently dropped a video on the 1 hour FTP. It’s actually much more doable outdoors. But I’ve not yet hit average Watt during the 1 hour test that are in line with my 20min test. However in the Hogg Hill outdoor crit races I’ve had 293W normalised (which was almost the same as my then FTP). Sorry for the delay - I didn’t get a UA-cam notification - and thanks for your support 🙏👍
Hello there
Where do I find the 60min free ride ftp test on Zwift? I can only find the "regular" ones and the ramp tests. Big thank you in advance,
Hi - I’m not sure there is a regular Zwift 60min FTP test. I just go to Tempus Fugit, warm up - and then go for my max, with a slight negative split 👍
Thank you very much for this informative video. I was looking forward to doing the ramp test and you have completely changed my mind. It looks nicer, quicker and simpler but will definitely lie to me and the programs i will follow subsequently. Just one question though, how long apart did you perform these test, was it a matter of days or weeks as the body tends to get a pounding from these extremely demanding exercises...?
Apologies for the delay in my reply Tshepiso, I didn't get the notification on my iPad from UA-cam. I had 1 day off between the 20min test followed by the Ramp Test, and then another 2 days off before the the 1 hour test. I still view the 20min test as the best of the 3. The Ramp is only about 15mins to complete, and only 3-4 mins are really hard. So it doesn't create a lot of Training Stress, hence the ability to try the 1 hour test 2 days later.
Appreciate the video. Thank you.
My pleasure, Vincent - so pleased to hear the video was useful. And 18months on I stand by the conclusion - the 20min test is the one I still think optimal !
Nice efforts! Thanks.
No Country For Wight Men thanks so much! Really appreciate you checking this vid out 🙏👍
This is great thanks. I’m torn between Wattbike atom and concept 2 bike erg. I’m 90% favouring c2 as more simple for all family to use. Anyhow - would the c2 work ok on these tests. I’m just getting to understand the benefits of this type of training.
Hi Kevin - thanks so much 🙏. I have no experience with the Concept 2 bike, so can only comment on the WattBike. It’s easy to adjust seat height and handlebar position for the family. And it syncs very easily via ant+ or Bluetooth to the Zwift App / WattBike Hub App / RGT app on the computer or iPad. It doesn’t require any calibration either. It was the plan for Jayne to use it - but in reality she hasn’t - preferring to use the standard gym equipment such as cross trainer, treadmill and concept bikes. Hope this helps 👍
Good, Thanks. People get angry when I tell them that most people can't sustain their 20 minute FTP test over an Hour. Unless you are a TTer or you have conditioned yourself to do that.
Thank for the video.
I'm very sorry for the delay in my reply Artur - I didn't get the notification from UA-cam to my iPad. I agree, my current FTP from a 20min test is 299, and I've only ridden to it 2x over an hour during climbing races on Zwift (in 3.5 months). And that was normalised power of 295 in an outdoor crit with a steep climb 297 on a race which included Alp Du Zwift (1 hour 6mins). To complete a 1 hour TT to your 20min FTP solo, is very hard. I did another comparison in one of the VLOGS when my 20min FTP was 294W. My 1 hour outdoor power was 284W
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy unless your a top tier athlete the 20 min ftp should be multiplied by .9, I believe coogan talks about this.
Hello Phil, I used to be into bodybuilding like yourself, how do you lose some of that muscle, I feel like I'm too bulky for climbs and could do with ditching some muscle, any pointers?
Sorry for the delay HB - super busy at work. I carried on in the gym, but focus only on the compound lifts and and retaining good movement patters and developing power and strength. And the extra KMs on the bike takes care of the rest to create a small calorie deficit. I gradually built up the distance and also added in 2-3 intense trainings in zone 5 and 6 or a Zwift Race.
I’ve an firm oppinion that Friel’s 30 min FTP test is the best one. It is really little bit forgotten, and that is a shame.
That does make sense to me - because I have a body type that can sometimes be just hitting its stride around the 20min mark 💯
Great content as always!
What is your typical nutrition during a hard 1 hour effort?
nad sim Nad. - apologies I’d thought I’d replied. I’ll eat a cup of oats with some dried cranberries mixed up with some whey protein and almond milk. I also had an energy gell at about 30mins.
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy yeah thanks for the answer and no pb man, i saw you replied before but as a new comment.
Keep the good work and have a great day :)
A 20min ftp test is great if your racing for 20mins...!
Prawle I think the W/kg from the 20min test is as good a measure of threshold and the ability to sustain power over 1 hour - without riding a well paced 1 hour. I find that on a good day, my normalised power in a 1hr crit race with a decent climb in the circuit is close to my 20min FTP. And on a couple of longer climbing races on Zwift I have produced 1hr+ average power within 2-3W. In a 20min race you should be some way over the 20min FTP - c20W or so for me on the Crit City circuit on Zwift.
Which “smart roller” are you using? Seems like it’s so much quiter than one I’m using currently.
윤동민 thank you for watching. I use a smart bike called The WattBike Atom. I have a video called Ultimate Test: Zwift and WattBike vs Peleton where I show you my bike and compare it to a Peleton. I very much like the WattBike Atom. 🙏🙏
20 min Vs Ramp gave me a discrepancy of 2 watts last time I tried them a week apart (245 on 20 Vs 243 on ramp)
I'm way off that nowadays lol
Should you use erg mode for these FTP Tests?
Hi Jayantrao - never ERG for the 20min or 60min FTP test, because its your best power on the day, and you won’t know what it is until after, so would set the ERG too high or too low. But always ERG for the Ramp Test - because it’s ridden to failure on the highest ramp you can achieve 👍
I Just started cycling this week age 17 and did an FTP test and got 247 is that a good starting point?
Hi Slava - nice decision to take up cycling, and for sure that’s an excellent place to start💯 Consistent structured training (with sufficient low intensity recover rides and fulls days of rest) plus good nutrition will enable you to build on it 👍
Thanks Phil- my plan is to use some of your workouts from your video about the top 5 zwift workouts to build endurance and than to the a race or FTP test (alternating each week) on Saturdays than do a very light recovery session on Sunday and repeat.
Nice plan Slava - if you check out some of my training vlogs the last 8months you’ll see a number of Coach Ed Laverack’s training sessions, which have really helped me a lot. I enjoyed the polarised approach to training (which was before my current endurance / tempo phase). This comprised 2-3 hard interval sessions each week (targeting VO2 Max or Anaerobic power (eg 5x5mins; 3x3mins x3; 60:30s; 40:20s and 30:15s). And then 2 days of low intensity zone 2 and 2 full rest days. Key is being well recovered to go as hard as possible on the hard interval days. If you take a look at a number of my training vlogs you’ll see quite a lot of vids charting the different variations of zone 5-6 intervals used - and also the nutrition and recovery rides 👍
you're not breathing very hard in the two longer tests... or looks like that anyway. is that normal?
Cheers DS - and back when I filmed this, I think my breathing was too shallow on the longer efforts. In recent videos outdoors (eg the Haute Route Videos) when at tempo or threshold you’ll usually see me riding with a relaxed face but wide open mouth - to really suck the oxygen in deep and expel the CO2 hard !
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy interesting. Was reflecting on this after commenting and I think I've had a similar path - starting to breathe deeper as I've developed. Although not sure if this is a function or fitness - ie as I get fitter breathing improves - or improved technique/pacing. Bit of both I expect..
Experience, getting dropped and understanding the importance of both expelling the CO2 as much as taking in the O2 !
I question why I watch you suffer. I know there are no shortcuts. Just gotta do it. I hate the 20 minute one and can’t conceive going a whole hour.
Ahhh Jim - I too enjoy watching other people push into the red on their live streams 💯😁 I’m in agreement on there being no shortcuts ! Good luck with your training 🍀
271 avg for an hour is crazy
Much appreciated rkw junior - my Diesel engine is decent .... sprint..... not decent 😂
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy What is your max sprint power? I can hit 1300W with my arthritic knee but my ftp is only 200W ish. I really struggle at high cadence too. What should I concentrate my training on to improve ftp? Just do TTs?
your trainer dropped out in the ramp test, it wasn't you
Cheers Alex - just checked it back, and I think you are correct! Much appreciated
Hei! What is your HR-max?
Allan Dybro Allan - apologies for the delay. I didn’t get a notification from UA-cam. It’s 189 (and has come up from 180 under Ed’s polarised training). I’ve had 186 for 1 min on some of the Zwift climbing races.....
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy np. I use to calibrate my workout by using my percent of max-HR - as Stephen Seiler recommend. Thats why I´m asking 👍
Allan Dybro understood. I was advised that HR tends to lag, hence the move to power. But I guess the trick is find a method that works for you personally, stay consistent and measure the gradual progression 👍
@@BikeRacingWithoutMercy Power is as I see it, much better then HR to use when training. But HR is better when you create the workouts and control the value of a workout. HR is easier to compare with mmol at LT1 and LT2. And when creating workouts the most importen is minuts in the targetzone. The targetzone is typical under LT1 or over LT2. And there I know my estimated HR (estimated by Stephen Seiler) Eg is the best zone to train endurance between 88-92% of maxHR (lots of videos on the net). That information I use to find/hit the optimal power in eg 4x8 minuts intervals (Seilers famous intervals). My FTP can rise and I can follow the HR and correct the powerlevel ongoing. Thats what I meen by calibrate my workouts, based on power but calibrated by using my HRmax
Allan Dybro thanks for sharing that Allan - it’s extremely insightful and interesting. I’m definitely going to look into this now in some detail. Because I’m targeting some endurance events like La Marmotte (albeit for understandable reasons they are likely to be cancelled). Hugely appreciate you taking the time to take me through this 🙏🙏
1 hour test, jesus
Cheers Kelvin 🙏. Even though this wasn’t my best, I do love the hour of power 👌. I recently did it again, impromptu on a live stream up Mont Ventoux. I think it’s great for fitness and also building confidence about being able to sustain threshold 👍
You need a bigger TV.
Indeed I do !
Just curious, how tall are you? That is some mighty suffering. :)
Apologies for the delay in my reply - the iPad didn't get the notification from UA-cam! I'm a compact 176cm!
hi
Hi Jorlan 👍