Winners & Losers from the BLOCKBUSTER Six Flags/Cedar Fair Merger
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- Опубліковано 20 сер 2024
- On November 2nd, Six Flags and Cedar Fair sent shockwaves throughout the theme park world when they agreed to a merger, combining the two titans of the regional amusement park industry. This is my analysis, the questions I want answered, and who I think are the winners and losers of this blockbuster move.
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Something I could see being really beneficial for them is a “2 park pass”, with the ability to choose what 2 parks you use the pass on, more expensive than a standard season pass, but less expensive than an all parks pass, and that would let them turn the disadvantage of having multiple properties being super close together, into an advantage. For example, you could buy a 2 parks pass to Magic Mountain and Knott’s, or Six Flags America and Kings Dominion, Dorney Park and Great Adventure, etc., this would even be a good benefit for some parks that were already in the same chain, like Kings Island and Cedar Point, or Over Texas and Fiesta Texas. I think this would be a great idea for the chain, although idk if it’ll actually happen
I actually really like this idea though I hate this merge
Or maybe regional passes which include all parks in a specific region? Would be great if I could get a pass with Great America, Cedar Point, King's Island, and Valleyfair!
Interesting concept. I know if you buy a frontier city pass it also gets you into SFOT
Hopefully Great Adventures and Cedar Fair 4:45 4maintance will be better than what it is now. Look at all the mainta nce issues that they both had this summer. You can't pay me to go to either companies park.
@Aidea._. Not sure about Valleyfair!, but they'd be insane not to offer a Six Flags Great America, CP, and KI pass. That's easily worth $150 on its own.
This is nuts, never did I think these two companies would come together, Disney and Universal I feel are so big that even with the merger it changes nothing for them. Here is to hoping that everything works out well and this merger doesn’t end tanking both companies.
they already tried this back in 2019
Why would CF think they were in competition with Disney?
Disney is actively self destructing.
This merger is like sprint & T-Mobile joining
This is not what I meant when I said Six Flags should get a giga!!!!
🤣
Did you use a Monkey's Paw to make a wish? You know that's never a good idea right?
That’s why you always gotta be specific when praying to God
I really hope this doesn’t bring down the overall quality of the cedar fair parks. I’ve always felt like Cedar Fair parks were more classy. I hope it means that Six Flags parks will up their standards.
This is my underlying concerns with these types of parks merging. I couldn’t agree more cedar fair is a much better quality chain overall in every aspect vs six flags which is hmmmm some ok and some really bad managed parks in their chain. I’ve always insisted Cedar Fair was a better park operator of the two. I’d have say I’d like it to have been a Cedar Fair tie up with an operator like Busch Garden/Sea World than with six flags
I haven’t been to a CF or SF park in years, but I’m not optimistic this will improve the quality. I especially doubt this will lead to more investment, if anything I think it will lead to fewer big rides and more cuts in service, instead of anything significant.
cedar fair is the one kind of taking over with advice from six flags, i think that instead of cedar fair parks quality going down, we're going to see six flags parks quality going up
Six Flags parks always felt slightly trashy to me and full of workers that seem like they don't want to be there.
Cedar Fair parks always had a touch of class to them and the workers seemed much nicer and professional.
Hopefully the merger makes Six Flags parks feel more like Cedar Fair parks and not the other way around.
@@vincentfalcone9218 Yes! Six Flags always conjures up very negative images in my head. I haven't been to one since Geauga Lake was a Six Flags and I was a child, but there was something off about it.
My opinion of Six Flags has been pretty low since they closed / abandoned my home park of Ky Kingdom. Looking back, the writing was on the wall as the big attractions were removed and smaller scale items took their place.
Hopefully the “have nots” aren’t forgotten. Michigan’s Adventure and Frontier City deserve to have some hand-me-downs at least.
Frontier City isn't going to make it as a SF park. They'll sell it off - especially considering the new major park that's supposed to be built nearby. It wouldn't surprise me if that park actually got sold to a developer and becomes another retail outlet.
EPR Properties like Frontier City and Darien Lake are going to be the first to be sold off, likely to Herschend.
With KY Kingdom now being in the hands of the same family as Dollywood and SDC that park definitely has potential.
@@toyoracer33 Oklahoma City and Tulsa are different markets.
I don't think this news is going to change anything for those parks. Cedar Fair has its forgotten parks, just like six flags does. Unfortunately I don't see this merged entity suddenly deciding to invest more in those parks. If anything they'll probably be sold off
Imagine Kings Dominion taking Dominator and renaming it back to Batman: Night Flight. That would be a hilarious way to flex their new IP access while cashing in on nostalgia.
Considering that Cedar Fair is the dominant company I suspect we will see an integration not too dissimilar from what we saw whenever they acquired the Paramount Parks. A decline in new attraction capital expenditure for a year or two while they work on bringing the parks infrastructure and neglected maintenance back up to standard, which many of the Six Flags parks desperately need. For their sake I really hope CF runs the company as CF has ran theirs, which I am cautiously optimistic about given the new company appears to be Six Flags in name only. We will see.
All I know is that in 2025 or 2026, I’m buying whatever the most expensive pass they have that will hopefully allow access to all of the parks and going on a major road trip to hit them all. Literally my #1 bucket list goal :’)
We took our kids on a six flags tour for a little over a year and visited.
Six flags over Texas
Fiesta Texas
Magic mountain
Great America
St Louis
Georgia
And six flags over Texas a second time.
It was a great adventure and we plan to do something similar again before the kids are all too old. Adding some cedar fair locations will make the tour even better
Disney and Universal are pure destination parks in tourist areas, they are not Cedar Fair's or Six Flags actual competition. 90% of regional theme parks attendance come from 90minute drive or less, that's the core customer of Cedar Fair and Six Flags. Disney and Universal are depending overwhelmingly for vacationers as destination parks
The one thing I disagree with you on is how nonchalantly you discuss the possibilities of losing other parks. Losing parks is a HUGE deal when it happens. Entire communities get shafted economically and entire regions find themselves losing a piece of their culture, history, and entertainment options. Even in regions that have multiple parks, it's a painful thing to lose a place that has been a core part of so many people's lives. From my own experience, Dorney Park is probably my least favorite in the region, but I still love it and would be crushed if they ever closed it.
That's weird, I didn't take it that way at all. I thought his tone was suitably somber, in which he called it a downside of the merger. I don't think he wants to see this happen, but he is speculating, and trying to be realistic. He regularly reviews the smaller parks and his love for them is evident in his past videos.
So you're nonchalant, quit rubbing our noses in it.
@@TheOwlCreek keep calm and carry on
I'm very concerned. It's not even the question of competition or concerns about bad food or ads at Cedar Fair parks. My main concern is that these mergers usually imply a desire for each company to shed assets and hope that a combined company will have a stronger base that will remain more stable despite downsizing. So it worries me that this means some parks and possibly rides and land may be sold off. If that is true then my biggest worry would be about parks closing. It almost happened with Magic Mountain and both chains have parks on very valuable real estate. Best case scenario would be that another chain buys some parks and improves them or some independent business people or investment groups buys a park or two to operate them independently (though that is a long shot.)
Who would they sell them off to? Lol I’d be worried more about shutting them down. The two biggest park chains just merged. Only Anheuser Busch, Elon Musk, or Jeff Bezos would have enough capital to buy one of their parks
@@travisvanalst4698Elon Musk running an amusement park lol
@@travisvanalst4698 they could be sold to any number of entities. My big concern as you said is that they sell the parks to an entity that intends to close the park and pay to rezone the land for other commercial ventures. But lots of companies could buy a park. And while independent business men and women wouldn't be likely to buy the park directly, it still is possible for a small group of local investors to purchase and save a park if they feel it could be profitable. Kentucky Kingdom was a rare situation but not impossible. And they wouldn't need to be anywhere near as rich as Jeff Bezos. Most small to medium parks could be purchased for 8 or low 9 figures. Most parks aren't as expensive as Disney parks. They could sell off places like Dorney for probably less than $200,000,000. And parks in very expensive real estate markets like Knotts and Magic Mountain could go for high 9 figures given how many houses, condos or apartments could be built on those plots of land.
I'd be very concerned if both chains are short on cash that they may sell parks to developers who have no intention of operating the parks. But it is possible they would, just doubtful.
@@travisvanalst4698 also, Anheuser-Busch doesn't own parks and hasn't in quite a long time. I think you're thinking of SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment but there are other chains that could buy parks besides SeaWorld. Think Merlin, Parques Reunidos, Herschend... etc.
Depending on the market, the raw land may be more valuable for redevelopment than the existing amusement park currently sitting on it .
Maybe with the merger, and with Cedar Fair mostly at the helm, there's a potential for Cedar Fair to put a spark up Six Flags' ass when it comes to operations. Imagine how good it would be to see some of the lesser Six Flags parks have top-tier ride operations like Kings Island. That was just one of my first thoughts when I heard the merger.
I expect some marginally successful parks may get closed, sold, or spun off. When Six Flags got into trouble they jettisoned Astroworld here in Houston and the property did not sell for near what they thought it would. It is still mostly undeveloped today. I have never been to a Cedar Fair park, but I have seen the neglect at our Six Flags parks really hurt them.
Well maybe Houston'll get another theme park soon now that they've merged. Ive been to more Six Flags parks the Cedar fair but I say the Cedar Fair parks had better quality
Same thing happened with Geauga Lake.
@@joshuahollowell95that's true. While some parks with lower attendance could get sold off, maybe they take a look at migration in the U.S. and choose to build a new park somewhere that is growing, such as the Houston area, or somewhere else
I'm worried about it. I hope that the Cedar Fair parks continue to be run the way they are and send some of that managememt to the Six Flags parks, but my fear is that the opposite will be true.
The Six Flags/Cedar Fair merger is to enthusiasts what the Crunchyroll/Funimation merger is to Anime fans. The difference is that was just two media companies, these companies own physical properties, and I’m nervous about most of it.
There is really only one thing that stands out to me. CF has developed CP into a resort destination, I hope if anything they do the same with SFMM. It blows my mind that SFMM is still more or less operated like a regional park rather than developed into a multi day resort destination. I think one idea that could be cool is if they could do something like a regional multi day, multi park experience. Something that includes transportation, lodging, tickets, etc. to multi parks as a package for us enthusiasts.
There is nothing resort like about SFMM, it;s location, demographics of attendance, etc... It's a pure regional theme park, they weren't even able to do year round ops when a bunch of other SoCal parks can.
@@grobble8954 They wanted to put a hotel in there quite a few years ago but dropped the idea. If they had been smart they could have paid Newhall Land Company for more of their land and completely expanded the park. They said they could have quadrupled the size of the park. Of course they would have had to put a lot of roads in there. and the water situation would have been astronomical. They weren't being very far-sighted about anything.
@@grobble8954 And they could have put in a lot more flat and dark rides in. But there is one thing that needs to be taken out. Crazanity. That ride stinks. There is nothing to it. And the food years ago was great. But the last 20 years the food is at times terrible.
@@donaldkennedy9573 The only time the land was really feasible for SF to buy was when they first bought the park from Newhall. By the 90's the cost of the land was high. It was ridiculous high and prohibitive by the time Newhall starting selling parts of it to housing developers in the 2000's and 2010's.
@@donaldkennedy9573 Lol.....Zamperla Giga Discoveries are great flat rides, that's why they have massive lines by flat ride standards at every park that has them.
This is perhaps the most pragmatic, the most nuanced take I’ve heard on the web since the news dropped. I can only imagine, with my home park being Carowinds, what will be the result of the home offices being moved to Charlotte.
I think he's slightly too optimistic.
With this merger, it seems like there really is only one player in the high-thrill US park category now. I think we'll continue to see more innovative, medium budget rides going to all the parks, but the days of adding massive projects seem behind us. It doesn't make sense to add new gigas when you already control all of them.
When the merger was announced, it got me thinking that this was the first time since 1984 that both Great America parks were united under one banner.
For now but not for long since California park will close permanently in the foreseeable future.
I would guess overall the new chain will become more family-focused, especially when they want to take on Disney/Universal. Fewer big coasters, more superficial glow ups, family coasters and maybe dark rides. That's just where the money is right now. The best thing to hope for is that the Six Flags parks will get an operational upgrade.
Hopefully you are right. No offense to teens, but the rest of us are not looking for crazy thrill rides.
@@purplesprigs I mean, this is an enthusiasts video, so I think you'll find there's plenty of people who do want the crazy thrill rides besides teens. Apart from that, I am of the opinion that there should be a place for big thrills no matter how you feel about them personally. Nothing is gained when all theme parks become the same and all try to appeal to the same demographic.
I personally would love more family oriented rides like dark rides and whatnot. I can't do big roller coasters but I love smaller rides.
I think this would be a good thing for the chain, if they want to broaden their potential customer base. Id like to see the chain invest more in dark rides and theming myself, even though I'm usually up for a good thrill coaster as well
The only parks I see in danger are the rare ones that compete directly. Most cities or regions have one to call their own and the two companies typically stayed out of the way of each other.
So parks such as Valleyfair should be safe. They have a lock on that area. But the D.C. area is served by both Kings Dominion and Six Flags America. One of those is far more valuable than the other.
That’s something I’m worried about, both of those being within 4 hours of home. But I think their operational seasons have been greenlit for 2024, so if you want to visit either, do it soon.
Six Flags was all but ignoring SFA in the first place though? Like how much worse can it get?
The SF lease parks need to have the leases ended early, they have admitted in the past these are low producing, low margin/leverage parks with low price points. LaRonde, Escape and SFA also need to be sold.
@@grobble8954They are probably going to keep Great Escape just for the lodge
That's promising for Valleyfair at least. They may try to sell Valleyfair to another operator, but shutting it down would devastate Minnesota and the surrounding Upper-Midwest states.
Nobody here in the Twin Cities ever goes to Chicago to visit SFGA. If not Valleyfair and the MOA, most of us either go to Wisconsin Dells or Orlando.
This was definitely one of the most surprising events that has happened in the industry. Can't believe it happened but it happened!
I personally hope that the customer service will be just as good as Cedar Fair's parks. I went to Cedar Point this summer, and they had some great service. I went to Magic Mountain a few days ago, and my dad lost his phone there. We still don't have it back. I plan to go to Carowinds next summer, the new home of Cedar Flags, as I'm calling it for now.
This merger is pretty interesting. Both Magic Mountain and Knotts Berry Farm are my home parks, both are about 1 hour apart from each other (though with LA traffic, the drive between the 2 feels a lot longer), and Bugs Bunny and Snoopy have just become business partners in the theme park industry.
Agreed. For me the more interesting situations are cases like the one you highlighted. I can see this new company selling off parks that consistently have lower attendance, but what will they do with Knots/MM since those are two of the most popular parks between the two chains?
@@user-jz7ny1qc6j hopefully not a repeat of what happened to Geauga Lake.
You're a lot more optimistic about this than a lot of knotts berry farm fans are.
When corporations get together, the consumer invariably loses.
Disney isn't spending 60 billion on their parks, they're spending 60 billion on their parks and resorts division which is going to disproportionately be spent on their cruises and timeshares.
Plus, $60 BILLION is an absolutely ridiculous number for theme parks alone. As in "Iger's pulling numbers out of his ass" ridiculous.
Shanghai Disneyland cost only $5.5 billion to build. $60 billion implies that Disney will somehow build the equivalent of 10 Shanghai Disneylands within only 10 years.
Yeah, Disney isnt spending anywhere close to that. There was literally a facade around the door of a building at Disneyland that just fell off, and they simply put up a piece of wood to cover it lol. If they won't even maintain their building facades, I don't think they're going to be spending anywhere close to 60 billion on parks
I would be shocked if at least a few parks in this new combined chain don't get shut down in the next few years
I'm afraid long term this is gonna be a net negative. Less incentive to make the smaller parks better. They will get shafted even moreso or shutdown (hopefully sold off if it comes to it). Also in those regions where they competed before, there's now less incentive to improve those parks. Independently owned parks have their downfalls but they /usually/ have more love and passion put in to them. CF and Six Flags were about as big as I was comfy with...this has now crossed the line in to /too/ big.
How can Michigan's Adventure be treated any worse? lol
@@rossh688removing rides, which I could honestly see happening
I think as a whole the entire chain might be strengthened if they sell off some of the less popular parks, so I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. Heck, maybe it will even be a requirement that they sell off some properties to be allowed by the government to merge in the first place
If anything, I hope this improves the quality of operations at all of the current Six Flags parks.
Darian Lake, Great escape, Frontier City, and I believe Michigans Adventure will be sold off to Premiere Parks. They also may reacquire Elitch Gardens in Denver as they will be moving the rides to a new location in town and Cedar Fair wants in on the Denver Location
Darien Lake and Frontier City are EPR lease parks, can't be sold. There are also 5 leased water parks that should have the leases ended early. Escape. LaRonde and America need to be sold. MIA actually has good profit margins, they can charge $100+ for passes while having to pay not high labor costs. A bunch of SF parks in contrast sell $55 or $65 passes.
I think this was a great move from both parks. We've seen similar success when Bass Pro Shops acquired Cabela's in 2017, so I see no reason why this wouldn't be successful either. Hopefully, Six Flags could learn a lot from Cedar Fair, such as better operations, improvements in cleanliness and atmosphere, and having fewer ride closures along with new rides open by the beginning of the season.
If they want to compete with Universal and Disney land I would do the following:
1. Sell at least half of their combined parks and heavily invest in their year around parks
2. Stop focusing 100% on rides and more on theming (that be DC and other IP). People may disagree with me, but Universal and Disney bring in crowds because of its ability to make engaging worlds of their IP.
100 percent agree, I was thinking the same thing. I think they'd do much better selling off at least a few of their least popular parks, and taking those sales/savings plus savings from the merger itself and invest in the theming, dark rides, etc. even (crazy as it might sound nowadays), start coming up with their own theming ideas and being more creative, rather than continuously using the same old tired IPs
I would think this would mean some park appearance improvements for six flags, particularly at Magic Mountain. While they have a world class collection of coasters, park appearance leaves a lot to be desired. My last park visit was Fiesta Texas, and that was a beautifully maintained park.
Also, I’d love to see RailBlazer up at Discovery Kingdom. I’d tear down Kong and put it there, or in the back of the park, which is more run down.
My grandfathered pass is only a platinum one, but I would still be real mad to lose it. With CGA and SFDK as my two home parks, it can only improve the situation locally if things get combined.
Your best outcome is SFDK gets the best rides from CGA when that park closes.
A DREAM COME TRUE!! My home park Magic Mountain needs the help to become a powerhouse like Cedar Point… it has all the potential in the world and this merge will bring life back to all Six Flags parks while Cedar Fair continues to be phenomenal
Too many mouths to feed, a bunch of parks need to go..6 or 7 minimum. CF is great b/c they produced higher revenue thus had more Capex than SF , while having less parks so CF could build 25 or 30M coasters, do elaborate themed areas like The Boardwalk, Aeronautical landing, spend on massive restaurant upgrades, etc.. SF had too many parks, and produced overall not enough revenue, thus didn't have the Capex to do major stuff, they went cheap as a plan by necessity. Look at FY2022, SF Capex was 112M across the chain. Cedar Fair 183M in Capex across the chain in 2022....2023 Year to date SF Capex is 109M, Cedar Fair's 169M. That major Capex difference, which has been annually since SF bankruptcy, has helped produced the differences in the chains, along with CEO's priorities.
I think this deal is definetely good for Magic Mountain. My main concern is that Knott's Berry farm will be negatively affected by this deal.
I agree - I've also been thinking that these parks don't directly compete with one another. They compete with the rest of the world in general for your entertainment dollar. That being said, the merger won't really have an effect on competition except for the parks which are geographically close together. We'll definitely lose a few, the biggest of which is either going to be Six Flags America or Kings Dominion. And Don't think that Six Flags America will definitely be the one to close. With the right investment That park could be made into something special, and it doesn't have to deal with Busch Gardens Williamsburg just up the road. But it would take a huge investment in SFA to bring it up to the level of KD. And the land near DC is sure to be much more valuable.
I'd imagine that SFA is in more danger of closing than Kings Dominion. There's far better infrastructure and ride quality in the latter park than the former and the land prices, in the event that they want to expand, is FAR cheaper and more plentiful.
I Pray to God This Merger doesn't prove Catastrophic for the Amusement Park Industry
Designate ghost town at Knott's as a historical landmark before Six Flags destroys it.
Six Flags is the brand name, Cedar Fair execs are the big players in action....no need to worry...Ghost Town will still be Ghost Town.
Cedar Fair will be in control, they have 51% of the board and Richard Zimmerman will be CEO. Bassoul will be chairman
Hopefully this means the Six Flags parks will be renovated.
Last time I was at New England, it was in need of renovation.
Plus they've been shut out on a new major ride since like 2017 or 2018
My concern is that my park (Canada's Wonderland) which has just finally started to get all of it's theming back in order after Paramount ruined it, and I really don't want to see it to be shoved full of super hero rides and destroy the atmosphere of my only park. However, with that said, I would like to see a universal season pass and season fast lane option for all parks though, as that would give you a lot more freedom when make vacation choices.
Nothing to be concerned about, read and understand the licensing deal with DC.
All I need is RMC Boss. That alone could pull six flags St Louis up into a significantly higher tier of park than it is now. RMC Boss plus a custom steel coaster replacing Ninja could make STL true destination
So far, I haven't heard a word about whether the SEC has approved this merger. This announcement stated nothing would be official until next year, so we'll see. There are always chances for things to fall through, even though I'm not holding my breath.
It's nice to see plans to heavily invest in existing properties, although who knows how long that attitude/strategy would last. There are no guarantees. Anything that reduces competition on such a large scale WILL make me feel deeply concerned and this is no exception.
As long as Kings Island (my home park) doesn't lose its identity like it did in the Paramount years (the dark times) I'm okay with this. I don't love the idea-but I'm okay with it.
As long as they don’t rename The Beast, Superman the Ride, I’m ok with the merger.
I find it shocking that I woke up one morning and six flags and cedar fair merged. And I was wondering what this means for the future of the amusement industry...
Finally! Someone with a sensible take on the merger!
8:15
I fully expect park closures in the future in the name of saving costs.
One thing on my mind right now is:
I hope Valley Fair will be ok!💖
The irony is that I was mulling suggesting a video speculating about the fate of specific Six Flags parks should they go out of business. Something like your Coaster Needs by Chain series. Well this settles that. :p
As someone who watches your baseball content, I did not think that the biggest trade I’d see you cover this year would be in the theme park industry
Ha, I do appreciate you supporting both channels though
I see some of the smaller parks possibly closing so and like you said the "haves" will get even more attention and the "have nots" will continue to get ignored
6-12 months ago I remember you had a video talking about how much the stock of 6 flags had fallen and how little each park was being valued and I asked if there was a chance 6 flags could get bought out as a result. Not a buy out but I guess I got my answer.
As both an enthusiast and shareholder, this excites me because we will see far more investment in regional properties. Not only will we be seeing more coasters(🤞), but better quality in six flag parks as a whole and a larger company that can weather the storm.
Imagine a world where Millennium Force gets renamed Superman the Ride
Kind of worries about those bottom tier Cedar Fair parks. Six Flags likes parks in big areas while Cedar Fair didn’t really care that much.
Seeing this merger, I would be in shock if something isn’t cut or sold off if Six Flags is this desperate.
If this move somehow saves my home park of California's Great America, then I would actually be happy with it.
Maybe it would be saved. But sadly, they now have more closer options to relocate the existing rides.
I believe that the sale of the land already occurred for the Santa Clara park, and so the eventual closure of the park is inevitable (the merger may even accelerate it).
As a WoF passholder who was really enjoying CF putting their focus on my home park for improvement lately, I'm worried this will mean that focus and investment will stop.
I want to be optimistic about the merger, but if anybody knows anything about corporate mergers , it typically doesn't end well and will have us seeing VAST changes across the chain. Expect parks to close, less rides to open, and big hikes in pricing, unfortunately.
The vest coverage of this without any bullshit. I like it .
What’s wild is this is the first time since Marriott owned both great americas that they are under the same ownership again
It will not be for long before the Santa Clara park closes permanently.
Yes I remember when both were together and sadly the Santa Clara one will be gone
I'd love "regional" all parks, for example midwest, west coast, east coast etc. If I could go to Valleyfair, 6F Great America, the Missouri parks and maybe some stuff a little more east I'd pay for it.
This is huge news for the amusement park industry. I feel like both companies do stuff right and wrong but it seems like cedar fair has been doing better imo. I hope that this merger will make the six flags side better. I am worried about parks being sold off and forgotten about tho. It’s something I really don’t want to see
I think the time has come for the lesser parks to finally get some new rides (most likely hand-me-downs) and I love it.
See, ues CF TRIED to go year round with KD and Carowinds, but they went about it in a VERY WRONG way. Carowinds especially. KD was queationable from the get go, but Carowinds SHOULD be able to support it. It was almost like they WANTED it to fail so they could scrap it this year.
This is nuts, definitely the biggest theme park news in the last 5 decades.
agreed, Cedar Fair acquiring the Paramount parks was big but Six Flags and Cedar Fair merging is just monumental
@@AirtimeThrills yeah I'm also very curious to see what this means for the theme park industry, I would love to see this new company giving Disney a run for their money.
In regards to the parks that may be on the chopping block for Six Flags/Cedar Fair in the next decade or so, I hope that SeaWorld or Herschend steps up to the plate to breathe some new life into those parks especially considering SeaWorld outright bid on all of Cedar Fair last year. Also, if any parks do end up going away, I really hope they give us at least a few years heads-up like with CGA.
great vid, I like how you broke it down into pros & cons about this merge.
i just ordered your "dont staple me bro" hoodie for my birthday!! keep up these awesome videos
Thanks! And happy birthday
I hope that since it seems like it will be the Cedar Fair team with more of the power that this ends up with the Six Flags parks increasing in quality. I like SFOG but if it had Cedar Fair operations and maintenance it would be so much better
I have been going to amusement parks for quite a few years now, one observation I made at CA Great America it is no longer a family-style park. You see parents and grandparents sitting down in the park, only teenagers riding on the roller coasters. In all fairness there is Camp Snoopy where the parents and grandparents can watch their kids riding on kiddie rides. CA Great America, one time had many family-style rides, everybody's been there knows these rides were removed. The wife and I used to go there for the family rides and entertainment. Everyone knows that indoor theaters have not been used lately, and we don't know if that will be used in the future.
You touched on something I’ve been particularly concerned about with the relationships of the manufacturers. I don’t expect to see a Gerstlauer at a Six Flags park any time soon, but I wouldn’t expect this to apply to the Cedar Fair parks either
Thank you for talking about the Legacy Membership. I have what you have and am worried about losing it.
What is amazing to me is this is a merger of 4 chains of parks: The old Six Flags parks, the Premier Parks, The Cedar Fair Parks and the old Paramount Parks. That used to mean at least 3 season passes for most of us!
I’ll go ahead and like this. Not sure what kind of butt pirate you need to be to get a like around here
One of the first thing they need to do is decide in 2024 which parks are on the chopping block. Too many parks, too many mouths to feed and too many low producing low margin parks w/o pricing power that need to go. All the EPR lease parks should try to have the leases terminated early, LaRonde, Escape and America also should be top of the list on parks to sell. One of the great things about Cedar Fair was they had less park than SF, while producing more Revenue than SF, which allowed them higher Capex allocation among fewer properties.
I think that no company will be able to afford not working with the new Six Flags company. They are now a major CONSUMER of rides and attractions and I imagine that Intamin, Gerstlauer, and RMC will be working with the new Six Flags on a park-by-park basis. As far as new additions, the 2024 and 2025 additions will remain unchanged, but come 2026 we will start to see what their new additions turn out to be.
I tried to catch some videos about this yesterday but no one quite explains it as well as Airtime Thrills, good video. As someone who pretty much just sticks to my SoCal parks, I'm not too worried about anything really negative coming out of this but I am expecting cost increases because of course that's bound to happen. How much those will be is going to determine how I feel about the merger in the long run.
One thing that this could do is pull a few have not parks, like SFA, Dorney, and Michigan’s Adventure, into the last of parks that gets more additional investment. Each of these parks becomes the less attractive sibling of another park near a major market (Washington DC, Philadelphia, and Chicago respectively). A clear path to grow revenue in this acquisition is to get people to buy an all parks pass instead of a local park pass. I could see both Six Flags America and Michigan’s Adventure getting an occasional investment to drive these upgrades.
SFA should be sold. just 100 miles from KD, which is a better park. LaRonde and EScape should also be sold. The lease parks should have the leases terminated early if possible, Darien Lake and Frontier City, as well as the leased EPR water parks. These are low producing parks and there are just too many mouths to feed. Too many parks was one of SF's issues now, they don't produce adequate revenue and thus have Capex to keep their parks up.
@@grobble8954The Great Escape has one of the resorts, it's sticking around just because of that
In antitrust law, there’s a term called monopsony, where only one buyer exists, versus monopoly, with only one seller exists.
I’m afraid that this acquisition may create a market with only one real buyer.
I am very excited and thrilled to see what comes from this merger- as long as they keep Casa Magnetica open at Over Texas I’ll be a happy camper /j
I believe SFOT will be sold off. SFFT has been a priority for years. The land SFOT sits on is pretty valuable as well.
@@rantanamo I don't think that is going to happen- come hell or high water. Over Texas is a literal historical landmark- and if they sold it, the company would only have one amusement park in Texas. It doesn't make logistic and economical sense to tear it all down.
I love the more balanced, realistic and slightly more optimistic perspective on this. I've gotten a bit annoyed by how so many people are getting all upset and worried over fake concerns and worst case scenarios--I suppose that's how a lot of humans/consumers will react when there's any sudden change in anything. It's a defense mechanism that requires skill to detect and manage.
And typically mergers mean less competition and hurts the consumer so the automatic pessimism makes sense but i think this industry is different and those traditional concerns dont apply
This is crazy! I understand all the points you put out, but my gut feeling is that this is not good
Great video, best I've seen on the subject. Thanks.
What will probably happen to the competing parks like Dorney and great adventure will be that the smaller of the two gets sold and the rides scrapped or moved to the bigger park
I think it will also consider if the price of expanding the smaller park would be less.
Some parks are horribly landlocked (like Disneyland is).
That extra park to make it 27 is probably Six Flags Qiddiya.
I totally agree with most of your points.
I think it is mainly the CF home park passholder enthusiasts who are losing their minds over this.
I think by-and-large the net effect will be to raise the SF parks up to CF standards and raise their prices accordingly. I’ll be fine with that.
I have the same hope, but fear that the opposite will happen.
Im nervous about my legacy membership for sure!! But we hold that and a seperate dorney park season pass, so i guess we will have to see what the new passes will look like. Overall, I've never been happier to live near one of Six Flags best parks haha. I don't see them doing anything bad to great adventure...only good
Fun fact, six flags great america used to have a panda express lol. Not sure if it's still there though I haven't been there in years
It took them forever to finally give my home park, WoF, a new roller coaster. I feel slightly less optimistic now that we will get another big addition in the next 4 years....but on the other hand the Timber Wolf has better odds of getting RMC'd now. But who knows? Wof and SFSTL just essentially became sister parks here in MO, so will they focus on working together to edge out more of SDC's business? So much to think about.
I’m personally very curious about what plays out for the parks in missouri, especially in terms of passes, since if you’re like me who lives an equal distance between both parks
I'd like to see SDC/Hershend buy WOF in the event there is a park selloff in the wake of this. Some were also talking that Frontier City could also be something they could sell off to them. They take good care of their parks.
I think the the most funniest thing about the merger is that the city of Sandusky Ohio struck a deal with Cedar Fair so they could keep the corporate headquarters in Sandusky. Well that's over.
I don’t doubt this was a personal reason for the Cedar Fair CEO to do this. He was never a big fan of leaving Charlotte for Sandusky
Now we've put management of all these parks in one basket, we have to fear losing all of them if this new company collapses. And it just might be too big to succeed.
Cedar Flags or Six Fairs? I can picture a pretty expensive Annual Pass that covers their parks. If they are able to combine some of that maintenance knowledge that could make ride maintenance and refurbishment much faster and cheaper.
Cedar Flags cause Six Fairs sounds like its actually Six Fairs 😅
The saving money thing on annual passes only applies if you were already buying annual passes at both parks. If you were just getting a 6 Flags annual pass and traveled to various 6 Flags parks, you will now have about $200 less in your travel budget. That $200 may not be an issue for some but it will definitely mean that some folks with more limited budgets will be making other entertainment buying choices. Given that you started the video by saying both chains were anticipating a downturn in money spent on amusement parks, driving up the costs of annual passes could be bad for the success of the merger.
I never really thought about it, but Railblazer would be a perfect fit to replace Kong with. Railblazer would easily fit in that plot, and Kong is...well, it is my favorite of the 2 SLCs I've ridden lol but that's not saying much. I could also see more opportunities of moving Gold Striker somewhere. But maybe that's just my wishful thinking of saving the best woodie ever made.
When talking about the parks in competition, to me Dorney Park and Great Adventure are the biggest overlap and the most interesting spot. Great Adventure is an upper tier park in the Six Flags chain and Dorney Park is low on Cedar Fair’s list. If it wasn’t for Iron Menace, I’d actually think the merger would have put Dorney on a path to get sold or on the chopping block.
My biggest concern is generic DC theming at Cedar Fair parks to the extent of current Six Flags parks. A new major ride with DC theming at a Cedar Fair park is okay even if it makes for yet another Batman or Superman the Ride, but I am very concerned about the possibility of existing rides at Cedar Fair parks getting rethemed to generic DC theming. I doubt this will happen with existing rides, but it will remove a lot of identity of current Cedar Fair rides if that does happen by making it generic.
I feel the only rides they would consider for this would be ride in need of a refresh or areas of the parks that might need the same.
I will say, one thing. I still worry about is the new all park prices. The nice thing about getting a season pass to six flags is that it was relatively cheap. Sure relative to what you’re getting, the price won’t be bad, but I think of it more based on how often I go to theme parks and which ones I visit. I’ll probably end up going to the same amount of parks (and probably the same parks) as last year.
It’s kinda like if I went to a barber and got a deal on haircuts for a year. This deal allows for specific hair styles to be done every visit, with some haircuts excluded. A year later all haircuts become included and the price skyrockets. The value of this deal might be about the same for those who enjoy exotic haircuts , but for me, who visits for a haircut within the original deal, it becomes a far worse value.
Lately the all parks Six Flags pass has t been dirt cheap like it used to be. That's the only reason this probably price hike wont be too big of a shock
@@AirtimeThrills That’s true. It’s gone down a lot lately. We’ve visited magic mountain recently, so we ended up getting diamond passes. We waited for a sale though, so it ended up being like $90, so it wasn’t too bad. Since we’re from St. Louis, the prices aren’t anywhere near as bad as magic mountain.
Cedar Fair has been getting rid of their Chain restaurant deals, Subway was taken out of a bunch of parks in 2023, I think Wonderland is the only one still with Subway. CP got rid of Johnny Rockets, Chick Fil A was taken out everywhere.
I really hope this does not mean Cedar Fairs portion of the parks will start getting corny superhero themed coasters 😬
Change in ownership means nothing when I can't get my family to go to the only nearby park. With rides that are either very intense or for children only there is not much for someone in the middle. Get a better variety of rides or more stuff to do (that doesn't cost extra) then we'll talk.
What's your local park?
Whats the closest park to you?
Great video! Very insightful! Exactly what I was thinking, about who they'll work with.
Also a point to be made is will they put more money into their year round parks to boost attendance?
based on everything I've heard from them so far, it seems like they will build up those parks in particular to compete with the behemoths