Why a Wesleyan Approach to Theology (Ben Witherington)
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- Опубліковано 9 кві 2013
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Dr. Ben Witherington III discusses why he considers the Wesleyan understanding of the gospel to be most faithful to Scripture.
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I love this. You make it nice and clear. I grew up Calvinist and I thought it was very strange too.
But we were taught, yes this is hard to take but it’s what the Bible teaches and you just have to come to terms with it.
Now. That’s very very strange.
So glad that by God’s grace I kept in the Word until God revealed to me these very truths you are expounding.
I am a follower of Christ Jesus and that's all !
Wow! I attended a Wesleyan Church for a few years, and missed this differentiation. Thank you.
I really enjoyed this video. Thank you for making it.
I am 1689 Reformed Baptist and I have never heard a pastor say that sanctification never involves our works from faith. The way I believe it is that sanctification is our duty as a believer to work out our own salvation.
So faith without works is dead. Not works "for" faith, but works "from" faith.
I'm a reformed baptist (as Spurgeon) who attends a Presbyterian church, and I'm planning on trying out a Wesleyan next week. I listen to only reformed preachers (a lot!), and they're all about "faith without works is dead", so it seems I'll be in good company. :-)
27 dislikes! I think that a few calvinists visited this video. 😂
Calvinists visit all such videos to deposit their dislikes 😂
That's brilliant. Thanks. We were taking about sanctification in church today. I'll forward this to my pastor.
Sir I like your explanation, would you please tell us something about the second commandment (Exo. 20:3-6) Thank you.
Excellent, succinct summary. I'm encouraged and emboldened to hold onto and teach the Wesleyan view.
He got a few things wrong. Grace by faith is enough, works are optional, see: 2nd Corinthians
Jesus said His yoke was easy & His burden was light. That sounds to me like we expected to be serving the Master, by the leading of the Holy Spirit & not my own understanding.
@@AmazingAceDocshe’s a New Testament scholar, I really doubt he forgot about this verse
I was a calvinist but I think I'm becoming a classical Arminian
with compassion comes justice. justice demands death because of sin. but to be saved is pure grace. the question is not "god is not fair because everyone is not saved" but rather "how God can save even one sinner..."
I'm really confused because I've never heard a Calvinist say anything along the lines of "works don't have anything to do with faith." I'm not convinced of either position yet, and I'm delving deep into this issue. I have to say this is a yellow flag, because I may be wrong here, but I don't know of any Calvinist who does not believe works are important in any way. I hope I'm not misrepresenting you here, but it seems you're saying that. I myself go to a church with a huge Calvinist leaning, and my lead pastor is a Calvinist. He teaches from the Bible that works are important for an obedient Christian. What does this have to do with Calvinism at all?
Both Arminians (as Wesley is) and Calvinists affirm that without God's active intervention no one can come to believe in God and be saved. The difference is in the extent of God's active intervention, whether it causes people to believe or does it simply enable people to believe. Calvinists in affirming unconditional election would necessarily believe the former, while Arminians believe the latter.
Dante Ting.
In the last analysis Arminians view salvation as a growing relationship while Calvinism views it as a mystical formula in which God does everything regardless of the believers cooperation.
Agreed. It’s all grace! Weather it’s effectual or prevenient is God’s business.
That's so interesting! I'm reformed and thinking of going to the Wesleyan next week, so this is helpful.
@@lilacDaisy111 You might also want to consider visiting an Orthodox Church as well :)
The holy spirit transforms us,
Me too. Ive been brought up in the Church of the Nazarene with Wesleyen and Arminium believes.
Read John 6 the whole chapter better yet the whole book. I want to highlight verses 37,40,44,64,65,70.
I’m neither Wesleyan nor Calvinist
Strictly sticking to the Bible and led by the holy spirit, always be prayerful and anyone can be Christ like.
It is one thing to lay out an accusation, it is another to prove it.
True works come from being saved, not to be saved. Jesus said "what we do for the least of his people, we do for Him".
"Salvation by Grace Alone, through Faith Alone, in Jesus Christ Alone, as Revealed by the Holy Scripture Alone, for God's Glory Alone." The Five Solas are NOT the front porch NOR are they the house; they are the foundation. Without a reformed monergistic soteriology, whether you understand those big theological words or not, you are just another self-righteous, works based religion trying to earn your way. Yes, sanctification must/will follow salvation/regeneration, but even that is a work of the Holy Spirit "lest any man should boast". To God be the glory. Nothing but love for all of you.
Amen
I had to touch on the doctrine this gentleman mentions around 4:25. The doctrine of a Second Work of Grace unto Total Perfection is ,"yes gasp", absolute false teaching. You must reduce your view of God and elevate your view of man to believe that we can come ANYWHERE near Christ's holiness in this sinful flesh. Not on this side of the grave, and the Glorification by the Holy Spirit, brothers and sisters. This doctrine can only lead to a self-righteous hypocrisy seeking one's own glory. Yes, we war with the flesh, crucifying it daily, but it is Christ's propitiating work, His Atoning work alone that brings the victory. Again, I only took the time to type all this out of love. I welcome any rebuttal as we all grow in grace.
@matthewhafen9251 The goal is perfection(conformed to the image Christ), but to assume we can actually achieve it in this life is foolishness. We have not even understood or seen the fullness of Christ let al I ne become it.
Here is a video we produced on the five solas of the Reformation: ua-cam.com/video/CNbQzAeaHsE/v-deo.htmlsi=dUoj3jgzKBe6zPEy
Why was being born again not mention? We have lost what being born again really means. It's strange how one can talk about saintfiaction. But not being born again.
I see all these Calvinists being like "We're misrepresented!" when they have constantly misrepresented and slandered Arminian theology since Jacob Arminius first questioned the Deformed Church in the Netherlands. Dr. Witherington hit it on the nose again in this video.
Marshall Sanborn a lot of people think it was Calvinists vs. Arminians but it really wasn't a fair fight. The Remonstrants we're not allowed to present their side at Dordt. They were banned on a technicality. I wonder how history might have been different if it had been a fair fight then.
lol "Deformed" you slander Calvinists while complaining about being slandered. nice
@@hondotheology He didn't slander anyone. He just spat facts friend.
@@rohandanielisaac8107 Freudian slip there. If true followers of Jesus Christ were fish, I think of Salmon rather than Halibut. Definitely not Jellyfish lol
So true. But being raised Calvinist we were never taught this.
Sincere question for you Doctor: What happened to the souls of all those that perished in the flood. I have been pondering on this question for awhile. Thanks, God bless
They are no different than all the souls today who refuse warning and remain in their debauchery...Noah warned for many years while he built the ark....
That story is not meant to be taken literally,.
I would agree with the statement about Calvinists view of sanctification that the don't believe in ALL sin or fear being absent in their lives, but where do we actually see this happen for anyone? Not any of the NT Apostles.
And one wouldn't have to necessarily buy into that particular doctrine to experience it if it was the normal course of obeying God through faith, which Calvinists are trying to do as much as Wesleyans are.
I just realized I'm a Wesleyan. Even though I'm not part of their Denomination
The majority of American evangelicals have an Arminian belief system of which Wesley was an adherent
Wow! How can I learn more of this? Which books, sites, etc?
With all respect, I've heard many talks from very succinct Calvinist points, yet never ever a Wesleyan position such as this. No "Young Restless and Reformed", no "Desiring God" conferences for the Wesleyan view. Tell me more!
Have nothing to do with 5-Point Calvinism my friend. Do not walk, but RUN away from teachings of James White, John McArthur, John Piper, the late RC Sproul plus a host of others.
I am convinced that "Reformed" theologians have made the internet and all things media, major stomping grounds. So be very careful to research every author and speaker u meet either at the bookstore or on the internet. Indeed, some of them do come as wolves in sheepskin.
Apart fro Dr Ben, Soreriology 101 with Dr Flowers here on UA-cam u may find helpful. Also Beyond the Fundamentals which is much more caustic again Calvinism teachings although it seems the presenter embraces OSAS.
David Pawson is also an excellent preacher.
@Kendrick Simms The same issues that bro Kevin Thompson of Beyond the Fundamentals, and Dr Flowers of Soterioligy 101, and their non-Calvin guests have with TULIP. Again, I think bro Kevin subscribes to OSAS. I will not repeat the same concerns with u on this thread. Watch the posts of those 2 gentlemen. Of course there are others but these 2 can be a start.
He said Calvinist don’t believe that God’s grace can sanctify and transform the believers life. I disagree with that. I know many Calvinist who believe God’s grace is sufficient to save and sanctify the believer.
Sure, but the overall systematic theology of Calvinism doesn't have room for that. We see it as inconsistent soul theology.
Grace and grace alone you can't work your way to heaven your works are dead. It's Jesus plus nothing
That's the point the grace of God can transform a person. Your head is dead full of evil thoughts continually. But when you were born again Christ gave you a new heart. Jesus put your sins as far as the East is from the West to be remembered no more. It is finished. All of your sins were in the future when Christ took them away two thousand years ago. You are forgiven at the cross once for all time. It needs no repeat. It's grace and grace alone not works lest any man should boast.
Maybe I'm a Wesleyan. I agree with this theology, although I'm an unreformed Baptist.
However it is befuddling to hear this position contrasted as opposite that of the Calvinist. In a matter of minutes I could link to a half dozen or more "easy believism" youtube channels who would accuse Calvinists of the very opposite....of being "Lordship Salvationists".... that "backload" works into salvation, and thereby deny the doctrine of sola fide by default.
John MacArthur, probably the most prominent Calvinist of the last half century is most famous for his book "The Gospel According to Jesus" where he presses in on the importance of repentance from sin and sanctification. That book is what started the entire "Lordship Salvation" controversy....by a Calvinist.
Not a defender of Calvinism, but its strange to see them attacked from both sides on the same issue of works.
No doctrine is false teaching
I'll help you out. I finished this video.
I was raised a 5-Point Calvinist. And I'm like Arminian and believe people can fail salvation from this scripture I found Galatians 5:19-21 that when sinning that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians was Paul's teachings, believed by Calvinists to be Dispensation of Grace, proves people can fail eternal salvation. Grandpa believed he couldn't go to Hell, and Arminians believe he could.
I'm against suicide. I was depressed also to suicidal. I almost did suicide as a 5-Point Calvinist. And these scriptures got me more hope.
I became more Arminian now from these scriptures I posted on here. I believe people can fail salvation.
Loving God is wanting to be useful for him much. What if a person could do that much of his time? And I enjoy working from this. People who enjoy working. When it's more likely to be boring to non-Christians.
Mark 9:33-35
New American Standard Bible 1995
33 They came to Capernaum; and when He [a]was in the house, He began to question them, “What were you discussing on the way?” 34 But they kept silent, for on the way they had discussed with one another which of them was the greatest. 35 Sitting down, He called the twelve and *said to them, “If anyone wants to be first, [b]he shall be last of all and servant of all.”
This is for Christian world domination. Why to raise kids Christians. God Son Jesus said similarly to whoever is useful the most is the best merited of the apostles. Useful merit for eternal rewards and competition with other Christians. With God Son Lord Jesus Christ faith teaching, people will want to be useful for the kingdom of Heaven, which usefulness happens on Earth and if any other place. We need to help this world as much as we can!
This text could motivate, supposed to be Christian people, to do all types of usefulness. Chores, volunteering, grade school, high school, college, and work. Good people, this world needs them.
I am not sure I fully understand what he is saying but It sounds like you are saved in part by works however look at what the bible says: Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
neutrodyne What about the Epistle of James:
"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead...You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe-and shudder!"
Or how about Jesus in Matthew 19:
"Jesus said, If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” He said to [Jesus], “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."
Or Jesus in Luke 9:23 "And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me."
Or Jesus in Matthew 5:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
The key part is this last line of that final quote I mentioned, "For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." None of us is that righteous, we cannot keep all the laws at all times, certainly not outwardly, much less inwardly. So we need the cleansing mercy and grace of God through Christ. However, Jesus and the Bible are very clear that we cannot simply live in our sin, willingly, and say "Meh, it's ok, God will forgive me so I'll do whatever I want." We must strive to "take up our cross daily", we must strive to follow the law as best as we can, and when we falter repent and have faith in the mercy and love of God
It is not our works alone that saves us, but the grace of God. It’s basically God overlooking our imperfections. Our works are a result of our commitment to God. It’s not enough to just believe. It’s about committing your whole life to being just like Jesus.
I have no problem with Dr. Witherington III disagreeing with Calvinism. But, having gone to a calvinist seminary, I’m surprised that he would misrepresent Calvinism to such a degree. Calvinists absolutely believe in the necessity of good works in salvation. Read “Antinomianism” by Mark Jones for starters.
What it boils down to (in terms of salvation, not sanctification) is synergism vs monergism. Monergism is 100% correct, synergism isn’t.
Definitely beyond our ability to resolve, but inability and God as first mover is definitely taught. You should have at least pointed out that there is at least some sense in which God ultimately does not get what God wants.
This lines up with the doctrine of justification by a faith empowered by the love of God poured into our hearts (fides caritate formata) as St. Thomas Aquinas describes it. Wesleyan soteriologoy is not far from good catholic soteriology. I mean this as a compliment but ill wait for the backlash lol
Jesus told that woman, go and sin no more... action.. that's why we have to meditate on the Lord and take every thought captive 😏.. action 😎
I take it a step further. I believe that salvation is a promise of God and that promise requires keeping the Law, which means to stop sinning.
@TeachingTim Matthew 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'
Revelation 12:17 ...who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
These are the words of the Messiah.
@@cutlercutler9576 You have a bit more BIBLE study to do. The whole point of JESUS CHRIST coming and dying for our sins was. . . now try to get this, no matter how hard we try not to sin. . . We will continue to SIN. WHY. . .BECAUSE; We have inherited sin from Adam. It is the same as your skin color. You inherited it, There is absolutely nothing you can do about it. Maybe you could spend more time in the sun or less time depending on what you are trying to accomplish. And ,yes you may change your color a bit, but a black person will not turn white and a white person will not turn black. The BIBLE is clear WE ARE CALL SINNERS and FALL SHORT OF the MARK. PERIOD and PERIOD ! ! !
@@geraldlindgren4173 define sin.
Depends what is meant by sin. Define sin.
Stop cherry picking verses. James was writing to the saved / his brethren. Read the entire book sometime. Its not written for the unsaved, its written for the saved. And haven't we done many wonderful WORKS? Depart from me ye that work iniquity. Saving grace is enough.
Elisha, I can guarantee that your trust isn't in the finished work of Christ if you believe in conditional salvation. I would suggest actually spending some time looking at your heretical doctrine.
The Puppets of Predestination jhhb
1
Holy, Holy, Holy, the angels sing
This hallowed name in praise they bring
Yet a third of them left their first estate
Was it a free fall, or foreordained fate
2
Was Lucifer created to covet aspire
Decreed to be full of this evil desire
A subtle Serpent formed full of lies
By a God omnipotent and wise
2
Was Eve foreordained to eat
To fall and worship at his feet
Was Adam elected to eat as well
And both predestined for hell
3
Was Adam ordained to eat and fall
Compelled to obey the Devils call
Driven by a fatalistic force
Inexorable chartered course
4
Freewill is a myth a mystical illusion
The will of man merely self delusion
Everything determined by divine decree
Paedophiles, predestined to be
5
Evil is predetermined and desired
Every evil thought and deed inspired
Lucifer’s pride and lust for place
Decreed to deceive the human race
6
This doctrine has a fundamental flaw
A deity devoid of any righteous law
Propelling people to lie and kill
Then punishing for doing his will
7
Destroying those decreed to disobey
Because they cannot repent or pray
Burning those born in sin depraved
Elected to be evil, never be saved
8
This monstrous misrepresentation
Demon devised insemination
A malicious mockery of a loving God
Will be condemned by His righteous rod
Well done!!
Wow this needs to be published everywhere!
It is a falsehood to state that reformed people merely believe that one is saved through grace alone and that is it. Many leaders have stated that it is faith alone that DOES NOT remain alone. That there will be evidence through fruit & works.
He who says I am of Wesley or I am of Calvin are you not carnal. (Paul)
1 Corinthians 15:22 ESV
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
Hell is a lie
Yes it's very optimistic.
God wants everybody to be saved and He tries to accomplish that. He also has a track record of failing to save those who he intended to save. God knew this would happen before he created this world, but he chose to make this world anyway.
+Bob Sponge - I agree God 'does not want a single soul to parish' though I would point out His attempt;, as you phrase it, to accomplish that is by providing a provision through our Lord Jesus Christ. In the end as it was in the beginning that is ultimately our choice. God will not force our will. He created us to share in His love thus He created us with free will for we cannot truly love something unless we are free to make that choice. True, He knew what would happen and could have simply not created us. In His loving kindness for mankind He instead set a provision for our restoration. To accept that provision(s) is our choice to make. God does not fail to save us - we fail to accept His saving Grace. Peace to all!
Also, I have never heard a reformed Baptist (calvanist) say that God's grace doesn't change us after we are saved. Lol. WHERE in the world is that preached??? Sounds like some shaky calcanism to me, or maybe what you have been exposed to as far as calcanism is concerned.
But I have never heard of that "strange" thinking on relation to God's sovereignty as a calvanist, nor do I believe that "strange" take on God's sovereignty. That really made my head jerk when you said that. Lol
I also must say that the Calvinistic view of faith is not disconnected from trust. They believe in fiduciary faith for justification. This would not be the same faith that the demons had. The demons had an intellectual faith in Christ but they did not trust Christ. The calvinist rejects justification by intellectual faith. They teach in justification by trusting faith. Catholics believe in trusting faith which unites us to the Love of God. Only this faith saves. I reject fiduciary faith alone for justification but I have to be honest that the calvinist rejects knowledgeable faith alone for justification. They believe I'm fiduciary faith.
within the first minute which is an argument for the Wesleyan position is a bad one.
because that reasoning can and is held by the majority of Christians, Wesleyan or not.
for a weslyian approach to theology.
the most i understood from it is.
not calvinist, no real difference from Tennesse Church of God,
It is so sad that, in order to argue for one view, you misrepresent the other.
In God's eyes; What do you think is a worse sin. Committing adultery or being prideful. . . OK . . . here is the answer. Being PRIDEFUL. . .WHY. . .Because having a lack of humility will lead one too all these other sins of the heart. Really, if you lack humility your whole life will be a MESS ! ! !
So tell me friend, what happened to the Methodist Church since John Wesley has been gone? It has for the most part apostatsized by accepting such diabolical doctrines and has given credence to homosexuality, gay and lesbian ministers which clearly is an abomination to God.
God is a God of love but He's also Righteous and Holy and what He said was sin yesterday is still sin today.
Today, if Wesley was alive he'd call out this mess in the Methodist Church and call them to repent.
If you take a more solid stand and stand for the righteousness and holiness of God then you friend are a minority in this denomination.
Free Will Baptists believe the same.
I think Calvinism slanders the holiness of God. They believe God pulls your strings, pulls everyone's strings. When a person sins it is God who is guilty. They call it a mystery. That's not a mystery. It's slander.
They believe God has the cure for death but does not offer salvation to everyone. He could. But He doesn't. He made the vast majority of humans for the purpose of everlasting torment. But it is not God's will that any should perish.
Calvinism slanders the character of God on so many levels. They turn TULIP into a poison, a cancer and not a flower.
JAMES Summary: James encourages the little flock of Israel ( Is that you? What tribe are you in?) to endure unto the end of the tribulation period ( Matt.24:13 KJB) with faith plus works in line with that faith (2:17-26 KJB) Key passage: 2:24, Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Like Hebrews, James is written to Israel for the tribulation period, as they are scattered among the heathen (1:1), according to the fifth and final cycle of chastisement in Lev.26:33 KJB. They are living in a time when the religion of the Antichrist will replace the commandments of God ( Mark 7:8-9 KJB) such that faith in God will go by the wayside. THEY need to endure to the end of the tribulation in order to be saved ( Matt.10:22 KJB) at Christ's 2nd Coming to receive eternal life in the EARTHLY KINGDOM. Therefore THEY are justified by faith plus works ( James 2:24 K JB) instead of faith ALONE(Rom.3:28), like US today in the BOC when we simply believe/trust Christ's FINISHED work (DB&R) as complete, perfect atonement for ALL (past/present/future sins!)in order to receive salvation as a present possession NOW the moment we believe the gospel of grace committed to Paul our only apostle, (1 Cor.15:1-4, Eph.2:8-9 KJB)to be instantly saved, sealed, seated with Christ in HEAVENLY PLACES ( not earthly kingdom) & imputed with Christ's own righteousness bc we ain't got any & what we think we've got could never be good enough! We in the BOC have no covenant, old or new; we have a free gift! OUR HOPE is the RAPTURE & after that happens, God will resume Israel's earthly program & that's when Heb-Rev are THEIR instructions. One of the best things I've learned since coming to understand right division is this key principle: All the Bible is FOR us (for our learning), but not all the Bible is written TO us or ABOUT us! We aren't Israel in any way, shape or form. Grace & Peace!
We are instructed to rightly divide God's word. [2Ti 2:15 KJV] "15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." James is written to the 12 tribes and speaks of their Kingdom Gospel. James is not providing doctrine to Gentiles. [Jas 1:1 KJV] "1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." Trust Paul's Gospel. [Eph 2:8-9 KJV] "8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast." Gentiles in this dispensation of Grace should have nothing to do with any man's "house of religion." Yes, all sincere believers strive toward God's perfect standards, but not a single one of us will meet them. [Rom 3:23 KJV] "23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; ." Even after we make Jesus Lord of our lives, we will still fail. [Rom 3:10 KJV] "10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Even a true prophet of God under the Law recognized he could not meet God's perfect standard. [Isa 64:6 KJV] "6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." Rejoice believers, Jesus will keep you and carry you through to the end, even when you miss the mark from time to time. [Jhn 10:28 KJV] "28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand." If salvation depended upon performance, not one of us would make it.
What would john Wesley make of you doing same sex marriage .not a lot
I am a five point Calvinist, but I was raised Wesleyan. I’m disappointed that Calvinism is so misrepresented in this presentation.
Then correct him
No, I belive he represented Calvinism fairly accurately. Please point out his errors.
Both Calvinism and Arminism fail to describe reality fully. Both ignore the fact that time itself only exists for our benefit.
Wow! Excellent observation. I believe that as well. Care to expound on it? ❤️🙏
@@JoJo-wq7uz God created time, He exists outside of time (as well as inside), therefore His labeling Himself as the eternal “I am”. It is a mystery and I don’t claim to have a perfect understanding of it, only a “through the glass darkly” understanding. Both Calvinism and Arminism attempt to describe our experience in time but fail to express God’s timeless view. God knows the future not because He is looking at a timeline it’s because, in His perspective it is always happening “ now”. “Once saved always saved” and Arminism are both attempts to describe our experience in our “time and space” with a poor understanding of God’s perspective “outside of time”. “Once saved always saved” loses its meaning if we don’t understand what “once” truly means.
@@JDawghasaTruck You explained it perfectly. ❤️🙏
I hate to disagree but I will. The most important aspects of God's nature are his sovereignty and holiness. Now when you incorrectly proclaim God is all or only love be very very careful. I know you tell people that God is all about love because that's what people want to hear. But it's not the truth. When you proclaim God to be the all loving entity that you insist that he is. You ARE DENYING HIS SOVEREIGNTY AND HOLINESS. God does not can not and will not love sinners. Why not? Because he's sovereign. Read the Bible.
I don’t know what you are, but whatever it is, I sure don’t want to be it. God loves everyone. Even haters like you. For God so loved”the World”!!! Not just those who pray some “sinners prayer”…which is works btw
Altho wesley was arminian
He left it to God to do the saving
No altar calls or making a decision for Christ as modern
Day evangelists do!
I’m simply a Christian. I simply study the Bible and its word and I dont rely on any man’s interpretation or a mans reasonings of the Bible. I dont care what any man thinks about the Bible nor will I follow a man’s version of the Bible.
So you left any church/Community and you are the only interpreter for the word of god yourself?
Thats how any Sekt started.
@@paulbauer6353 I have an interlinear Bible and I research the meanings of the original words.
So u in your comfort zone ...surprisingly Paul did say strive for perfection ...so ask yrself what does that mean
@@ravindrinrangasamy578 I’m not sure what you mean by that. All I can say is work on yourself first before you point fingers at anyone. Don’t make assumptions out of ignorance, since you don’t know me at all. I’m not in my comfort zone, I pray every night for Christ to mold me and shape me into a better husband, a better father, a better friend, and a better Christian. I have many faults and shortcomings, just like you and everyone else. I thank God for his forgiveness and for His love despite all my faults.
@@carrow2250 I didn't mean to offend u in anyway ....but by u pointing out to me all yr list of piety it's good that what u do ....u misunderstood me all I can say search the scriptures as for me I'm a sinner and a saint
Apokatastasis! I Timothy 4:10
All means all.
"God does not want a single soul to parish"
I think He would want His parishes to be full of many souls together, with not one perishing!
God is Love his grace is universal yet if you don't accept him you'll burn for eternity for that. 🤔So after a billion years of torment for your 70 years of life on this earth your torment has just begun. Sounds like Love to me. This theology is wacked!!
Jesus Christ said:"unless a man be born-again he can NOT see the kingdom of heaven" he did NOT say "unless a man be Christian or Catholic or Calvinist or Methodist! ALL Denominational Religious Christianity IS unbiblical and can NOT save anybody! For one thing we are supposed to be of one accord in spirit,and another,most Denominational Christian Religions teach a works-based theology! Jesus Christ IS NOT A RELIGION! He IS A RELATIONSHIP via the indwelling of HIS Holy seed! This is the main reason why most "Christians" are unsaved, unfortunately! God bless you!
Sad to see such a weak presentation that started out presenting a faith plus works and then finally acknowledging that grace includes God's work in changing a sinner... It is almost like he was fighting the thought of God being active in the grace that saves sinners.
Theology is the biggest problem with religion
That’s a theological statement😂
Love God with all your mind and heart.
So let's make a specific list how.
The first four of the ten commandments are it.
This speaker openly defies two of those commandments. He wears graven image. He's a Sunday keeper. His theology is flawed, because he is deliberate in his error.
@slaveofchrist247 What you just did, is expend alot of energy and time, using examples, you opine, to be good reason, to defy God's command, concerning graven images. It does explain why Christianity, as we know it, is not under one roof.
I think it's funny he paints Calvinists as if they believe in cheap grace (the ability to be saved and bear no fruit). That's the opposite of the truth. Calvinists are the leading proponents of Lordship salvation (if you don't bear fruit, then you prove you never had faith and were never saved). He needs to study Reformed theology before he paints them as the bad guy. It's the Arminians who are the bad guys. I'm one of the strange animals that falls in between the 2 camps.
My very calvinist pastor recently said "there is absolute nothing you can do that will cause you to lose your salvation" which implies there is nothing you can do to maintain that salvation. It is all by God's sovereign will and grace. That sounds like cheap grace to me. I didn't hear anywhere in the video anyone being painted as the "bad guy".
+KnightTemplar1000
It's true, there is nothing you can do to lose your salvation if God has justified you. However, what you must understand is that Reformed theologians also take the stance of "God does not justify anyone He will not sanctify." If God justifies you, He will bear fruit through you for His glory. So no, Calvinists do not teach "cheap grace" and are thoroughly opposed to it.
Josh Peterson I'm an Arminian Wesleyan guy, and you're right. Although I'm not a Calvinist, genuine Calvinism teaches perseverance of the saints, and not cheap grace. There are some who call those who believe in a partial TULIP, Calvinists, but they are not..
Me too, I believe everything this dude says except the thing about being saved by grace through faith ALONE. This conforming stuff is garbage. If we had righteousness it is like filthy rags before god. We cannot conform to perfection, only strive for it. Saving faith is enough. Many will ask in that day havent I done many WONDERFUL WORKS? And then I will profess unto them....I never knew you....not I used to know you...that'd mean you got saved and lost it. You can't lose your salvation or that wouldn't make sense. He'd have to say .... I used to know you, depart from me, etc. --- The Bible is easier to understand than people make it out.
Josh Peterson.
It is because Calvinism ultimately presents "cheap grace" that terms like Lordship Salvation and Perseverance of the Saints were invented in the first place,to try and make up for the loss of personal responsibility which Calvinism proposes.
It is just salvation not "Lordship" salvation. LOL.
Ben----Glad I'm not a Wesleyan! Dispensationalism rules!!!!!!!
Refuted by Romans 4:5
John Trevett That's taken out of context, what the video says is supported, at least for the most part, by Jesus Christ in Matthew 5:19, Matthew 19:16-22, Luke 12:47-48, and Mark 8:34. As well as by James, in James 2:14-26, by Peter in 1 Peter 1:17, and by John in 1 John 2:1-6.
What Is Life?
What about the passages? None teach that a regenerated, born again believer can lose salvation. I've yet to have someone show me IN scripture one person in the new testament that lost salvation. Anyone that believes one can lose salvation doesnt believe the gospel.
John Trevett Those Scriptures clearly state one must work at their salvation. If Paul had gone in reverse, if he went from a saved Apostle to persecuting Christians and executing them, vocally rejecting and renouncing Christ; would he still be saved? The Parable of the seeds is another good one.
What Is Life?
Salvation is a moment in time when one believes the gospel, passes from death to life, regenerated, born again, justified, sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Again, show me 1 person in the NT that lost salvation and I will believe you.
John Trevett
"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."
"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?"
"The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away. And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature."
Again, The Bible is very clear that salvation depends on whether or not you maintain your faith and your effort. If you turn from God and reject Him, if you renounce your faith and spurn His commands, you have effectively renounced the mercy you once accepted. God is not obligated to continue giving you something that you have thrown away
Romans 8:29-30, Romans 9, Ephesians 1-2. You can spot heretical speech when you have to put a prefix to "Gospel" I.e "Wesleyan Gospel". This was either a blatant misrepresentation of what Calvin and many other biblical scholars advocated for or pure ignorance and illiteracy.
Nice straw man! Calvinism misrepresented again.
Actually he give a very accurate representation of Calvinism. I attend a church where I am the only one who holds the Wesleyan view of salvation. I have done a lot of study comparing Wesleyan and Calivinst doctrine and participated in discussion in a men's Bible study and I heard no misrepresentation here.
Nothing wrong with Orthodoxy.
Your incorrect and poor summarization of Calvinist Theology unfortunately distracts from your explanation of why you are a Wesleyan. I spent 34 of my 36 years on this earth in a Wesleyan church. I am now a member of a Calvinist Theology based Southern Baptist church and have grown in my faith more in two years than all the other 34 combined. I have great respect for so many Wesleyan pastors which led me to this video. What a disappointing representation.
Dr. Witherington clearly has been misinformed about Calvinism. At least I hope his misrepresentation is due to being misinformed. Otherwise that wasn't a very honest video.
But you reject the bible teaching and have same sex marriage