Ante Pavelić He’s South African, even if he was British that would make him by default not American. How is TESLA (the company) shitty? They make really cool stuff if I do say so myself. And are you this mad about every little dumb joke?
I cannot believe it.... in very good sun for NorthWest NJ yesterday, ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg this panel actually kicked up to the full 100W input.I have several other folding 100W panels....one is almost as good, in the same sun/position and minute later kicked in 87W and yet another....I had just gotten because of the good price, and because I have a few other battery packs, needed another, but that went back today. It only kicked up to 67W when the 100 pulled 100W. I expect a bit less than the full wattage, I'e been using solar and battery packs for nearly a decade, so know what to expect....but I have never had a panel this good. I do have two of them to chain together. They cost more than many of the 100W folding panels sold on Amazon, but they are worth the extra $50-100.
THANKS FOR WATCHING EVERYONE! FOLLOW-UP VIDEO: Will The Powerwall/Solar Save Me in a Zombie Apocalypse? ua-cam.com/video/vkdf_h03j0U/v-deo.html An important note on that 30% federal tax credit if you're in the US -- it won't always be there! 2016 - 2019: Federal tax credit remains at 30% 2020: 26% 2021: 22% 2022 onwards: 10% Also, I *just* got my electric bill for Nov-Dec, and it's -$9.79 (about a 10 dollar credit). 😁😁😁
Paul's Hardware Thats the residential credits. Businesses still get the credit more than the rest of us. :( Hopefully the state provides additional credits for battery systems once they get more affordable, to upgrade our systems once batteries get cheaper. Still, must feel nice to walk out of the house knowing that the sun is generating cash in your pockets.
Michael Problem is the ramp up time when the sun sets and people go home. They already changed the TOU rates to reflect this. It punishes people from 4 to 9 pm who cook, clean, and turn on their AC in the afternoon and evening. Hoping there will be more battery storage credits in the future to account for this.
Solyndra Subsidies, glad they are going away. Poor people shouldn't be helping pay for Rich People Panels. If you can afford the panels, you can afford to pay for them yourself. They increase the value of your house and save you money, if they aren't financially worth it, don't buy them. Expecting subsidies for them is ridiculous. Get out of my pocket.
I have to agree with many of the other people in your comments; Your very next house project needs to be on energy efficiency, you're wasting so much and we can tell why. Paper thin walls, inefficient or overprovisioned HVAC, use of space heaters. Make a bunch of small, cheap, improvements and I reckon you could save around 30% of your energy usage on hot and cold days 👍
I know right, where I live one kilowatt is only .624 $/kWh and we only use 950 kilowatts a month in a 2800 square foot home built in 2008 with quality equipment.
@@austinodell9046 so you pay 62.4 cents per kwh? Thats $592.00 per month, or do you pay 6.24 cents pre kwh? (.0624 cents not .624 cents) $59.28? Where I am we pay about .13 cents per kwh, you are getting a way better price. Our new house has R24 walls and R55 ceilings using quality equipment, and I can't see where we would save any electricity costs except on AC.
I don't really care how much energy I use. I use enough to keep it comfortable in my house. My electric bill is exactly 109.00 a month every month. I don't go crazy with usage but I do keep it comfortable in my house. Thermostat doesn't move off 70 degrees year round.
@@Vgp-rp4iu I have a bad news for you. You pay only for estimated usage, that's why it is exactly the same amount every month. Once they check you meter, they make you pay for the difference. There is no free lunch, there is no free energy, man.
I made a few in depth videos on the Powerwall. As for requiring a connection to Tesla, if it doesn't have a connection to Tesla within 24 hours, the system will reboot (if still connected to the grid. If the grid is not connected, then it runs a different state machine internally and will not reboot if it can't connect to Tesla. So, you can run off-grid, and with no connection to Tesla which I demonstrated in a week-long test. I also dislike the fact that it requires a Tesla connection because it shares your usage data. At the end of the day, this is just a battery. It shouldn't be a requirement to share your usage details (ie, when you put the kettle on, or are away from home for a few days). I am generally grid connected (apart from blackouts), so I set up the firewall to allow the Powerwall to talk to Tesla for 15mins, twice a day, at a rate of 2kbps. This gives it a very crippled link but allows it to get its handshake and therefore not reboot, so Tesla can't really bleed any significant data from me.
@@spoonicush.christ3252 They get something like this because it's an integrated solution. One source for purchasing everything, one source for support and repair. Now if you're a solar / battery expert, I'm sure you can put together a less expensive system from 4 or 5 different manufacturers. But when something breaks then you have 4 or 5 different manufacturers pointing at the other guys and the installer.
It's got nothing to do with the usage of the sun you are tied onto their power grid and feeding power back to them so they must make sure the system is okay. DA
@@tarlach1280x960 And even if it weren't tied to the grid, they need to make sure it won't start a fire in their town, which could spread to neighbors' homes - not to mention take town resources to extinguish.
The issue is the house is still connected to the grid. Tesla will isolate the house when the grid is off and being worked on. The point is, you don't do the house right it can be a hazard to the grid. I have beef with regulated off grid houses.
Paul, a couple things for you. 1. You can run your system with out the gateway. All it does is send back the production and usage data. So you would lose all of your reporting data that’s all no shut down. Those things fail all the time and go months with out getting properly connected. 2. It seemed you were confused about the powerwall energy flow. You are correct in saying the powerwall is backing up your AC when the grid is up. The powerwall covers everything while the grid is up. In the event of a grid outage the backup gateway then isolates those breakers that were put in your backup breaker. I assume the only this excluded was your AC unit and that in because of the current draw it has on start up which can overload the powerwall. As mentioned before this is grid down only.
After getting Solar panels installed I began taking an interest my power bill details . I became much more conscientious of which systems in the house were consuming power. Simple things like for example a 100W light bulb left on for a day uses 2.4 kw/day. Multiply that by a billing period, say 66 days, that's 158 kW/h. Turning things off when you don't need them can make a huge difference to your power bill.
Likewise, a fan only uses around 75 watts, whereas an A/C uses 3000-5000 watts.. so, even if you're running the A/C, it's worth having a floor fan pointed at you or a ceiling fan on to make you feel cooler.. you will set the AC at a higher temperature, it will cycle on less frequently, and the savings of that is actually exponential because to lower 80 degrees to 78 degrees requires far less energy than to lower 70 degrees to 68 degrees. This has to do both with the properties of keeping cool as the temperature difference between inside and out increases, as well as the decreased efficiency of an A/C under higher loads.. total energy difference becomes quite significant.
I checked my electricity usage after seeing his usage of 50+ KWH a day and couldn't believe it. For five people ages 24-26 living in a house built in 1904, all with computers, lights left on occasionally, a space heater and sporadic usage of my home shop (table saw, joiner, lathe etc). We have used a MAX of 12.39 KWH/day in November and a minimum of 4.1 KWH/day in March. Granted we don't have AC and live in the north east, but still that's crazy to me that someone could routinely be using 40KWH/day+.
Imagine me (German daughter of an builder) being confronted with single plain windows and ac/heating systems with miserable efficiency and lack of insulation anywhere I go!
I live in Phoenix and I can tell you that his power draw is nothing compared to Paul's. When you have 120F weather the AC is on non stop and that draws a ton of energy.
Yeah, first priority is to stop using so much gd electricity. I live with a three person household in a poorly insulated Victorian house in zone 5. Last year we used an average of 5.56kwh/day. Americans use way more A/C than they need, and they pay for it.
What a great video! I love your direct no nonsense approach coupled with what genuinely seems like an honest assessment of the whole process. Thanks for your contribution to the community man.
Finally some hard evidence. Thanks for taking the time to write up this detailed analysis! Much appreciated. Man, it hurts if you don't have that tax credit. Yikes.
It's really only viable if there is a tax credit. Which is why there is a tax credit. Which I don't necessarily agree with. The LED bulb has been an energy revolution. Energy use is way down due to that alone. I don't think we should be subsidizing solar for homes. And industry, where it is really needed, can pay for it themselves. Australia has pretty much killed off their tax credit. People who were looking at 7-10 years to break even woke up one day and it turned into 20 years.
R T so interesting points. How do you feel about Oil subsidies? An argument is shifting those subsidies could change the face of energy and transportation. Technically, this subsidy makes transportation profitable or more viable. Do you feel we should keep them there, change them or remove them?
Except if he didn't bother with the Powerwall he would have seen the upgrade pay back way sooner. Right now the Powerwall makes no sense if the grid will credit you for feeding in - the grid acts as an almost perfect, free battery (which is really wrong)
@@ZealothPL especially if theres no off grid/zombie mode and u have to be connected via internet, The grid is your battery pack. Future with no coal plants i can see the power wall being on every house with a grid so every house has a storage point to collectively run the city's i guess. But good point what real benifit is it hmmm. My buddy in palm spings has solar and its large enough theres only 2 months he uses more then he makes so he doesnt pay any ellectric bill ever. at the beginning i belive he was getting a check for 70-90$ month.
I'm a bit disappointed, as you said, with the lack of detailed statistic in-app and on their website, that's a bit odd for them. Hopefully, they'll work on it.
Those 1950's futurists mostly believed that our machines would be nuclear powered, nothing would be using engines that could sputter and cars would be replaced by personal flying vehicles. Those of the 1990 (ST DS9) believed that by 2020 unemployed citizens would be kept in "Sanctuaries".
Always online, completely useless otherwise. Not quite the system for the Off-Griders, and a bit out of my network heh heh. Now where is my little 0.001 watt solar calculator?
We finally hear that at the end. If the your internet connection goes out, it doesn't work. It's useless in a shtf situation, or aftermath of a hurricane, earthquake etc. And about 15 years to break even on the investment with no tax credit. What a joke.
@Informed Optimist Ok, good you can run it independently of the grid, thanks. But the initial investment is still overwhelming. I'm from Canada, but have lived in Jamaica for the last 8 years. My electricity costs are about 20 US$/month. No air conditioning, of course, but the windows work - that's what they're for. Assuming I got a system that gave me just 25% of his capacity, I'd be long dead by the time I broke even. That is, if a hurricane doesn't destroy the panels. I'll stick with my 2.2 KW generator as a back up.
@@JCO2002 My average electric bill in Rhode Island is +-400$ a month (second most expensive electric fees after Hawaii in usa) for me it will be highly profitable to go fully solar even with the cost. really depends where you live . our electric cost average around 22cent per kilowatt . Adding up prices increase every year ,in 10year prices will def be insane
Wow, that internet requirement is a deal killer for me. I'm reminded of the folks in Northridge after the quake that were without power for weeks. Obviously this setup will provide power, and if the ISP is still active,, all good. But if the internet is down as well, then you might as well have no solar at all. Big flaw. Great video, btw.
Ummm as far as I know, if the main grid goes off, so does your solar power. They don't want your solar panels/battery energizing the local power lines as they are trying to repair them.
I Agree with your Zombie mode comment, one of the main reasons I want a Tesla Wall is for emergency power in a power out scenario. I Did Not Know this was a monitor or no use system... (So disappointed Elon. :(
@Larry Butler There is no difference between solar generated power when grid is available and when not. Emergency outage service isn't the same as having a totally uninterruptible power system. An all-electric solar system is more dependable than a mechanical engine-driven generator when outages are for days or weeks and fuel trucks can't make deliveries. At the minimum likely output, undamaged solar roof panels ought to be able to provide sufficient emergency power during the day for basic habitability. A simple grid-held relay ought to be able to shed non-essential circuits of a rationally designed home electrical system.
Larry Butler diesel systems require maintenance and refueling. That is fine if you are a mechanically minded person and use the system regularly. If you don’t use it for 2 or 3 years you have a mess. Unlike a battery back up you can’t charge when power is cheap and use power at peak times.
@Larry Butler yep . Plus if ya wanna go solar. You can put together a solar set up n build your own solar generator for a fraction of the price for this Tesla solar shit
I find it ironic that you would spend that much money on this and completely ignore how inefficient your house is. You should really have your house properly insulated. You'll see a much better ROI, and your powerwall will last longer.
skmetal7 dude you are talking about american cheap houses no wonder they are not insulated ! i could punch in a door with my hand and kick through the wall. even if a car drives in you‘re house it will most likely go straight through it..
@@rationalityfirst At least coal power plants generates CO2 which plants need to grow and survive... unlike solar panels which are not biodegradable...
51 seconds into the video I'm pausing to comment. EXCELLENT VIDEO! What I love about this video (already), which is a point where about 99.9% of all videos on ScrewTube fail (if they're not fluffy candy-coated crap) is that the delivery is concise and to the point. It isn't 10x longer than it has to be while the presenter wanders off into side tracks and searches like a lost lamb for what is supposed to be conveyed. Preparation was obviously done very meticulously and that's where the quality comes from. I cannot stress this enough: the video stays on track, it delivers concentrated information in a well-prepared and efficient way. Most of ScrewTube can take many lessons from this video. Awesome job.
I absolutely love the idea of the Tesla powerwall....but I hate the internet connected requirement of it. That, to me, defeats the purpose of investing that much money into a solar/power bank system on the property. Love the video, and the breakdown of your usage though.
The powerwall doesn't seem like an efficient add on if you live in a sunny area like CA. Just seems like an expensive extra when most homes will be in a power storage deficit.
@Grand Admiral Thrawn Powerwall is certainly not overpriced. It's actually once of the cheapest batteries currently available. As for the internet connection, it's not just a battery.
@Grand Admiral Thrawn I guess it can store grid energy overnight? That would be beneficial if electricity is cheaper in night hours. Not to say it actually stores electricity generated by solar panels.
@Grand Admiral Thrawn Powerwall is more like software with batteries on the side than just batteries. Regular software updates (almost on a monthly basis: www.tesla.com/support/energy/own/powerwall/software-updates) improve the functionality of the system (optimizing BMS, inverters, etc) and add extra features. Also, it allows the system to check the weather, talk with the grid, enable monitoring, etc. The main reason though is that Tesla wants access in order to improve the core firmware as hi-performance lithium batteries require the supporting hardware to work as optimally as possible and thus last for more than a decade.
@@izybit, I can back this up. Do this kind of work for a living and I can't tell you how much of a headache controls are. In order to make the most of the battery you have to know when to dispatch it, which gets hard depending on the state of charge, pricing signals and past load profiles. All of this is not going to happen locally as most systems of this type use machine learning, unless you are doing microgrids. Another reason for it being hooked up to the internet is that if he has filed for the ITC he has to report to the IRS proving that he charged his battery up with the contractually obligated PV generated energy. Tesla does this as a service for you. It's not as simple as hooking batteries up to a wall outlet as when he was discussing the PTO. In fact I would highly caution anyone building their own system unless they know they would be able to get it past their Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ). Doing otherwise could get you in a legal bind.
Wow. I was not aware of the always-on-internet requirement. My primary reason for wanting this is for disaster use - I'm in the Pacific Northwest where a big earthquake is "due" - and if it happens, grid power will likely be gone for weeks if not months. The fact that this solar system would stop working in 24-48 hours after such an event (as internet would go down, too,) would make it pointless for that. An excellent review, though! Thank you for all the detail!
There has to be a work around... right? I'm in that same "due to shake" area, but so is Tesla? The comments about heaters in the panels for snow clearing, and this internet requirement are my points of contention with the project.
I think it's important to mention that Paul and family are home during the day. If you are single and work this would totally be a good fit since you would normally be gone during the day when the wall is charging
I'll admit it is a good point, and given his profession his usage is higher than 'average' people. However that's offset by his otherwise nearly ideal situation So. Cal sun, high elect. prices, 30% discount (tax rebate) and ROI is still estimated to be 11 years (which means likely closer to 15)
IMO, dependence on internet connectivity for continued use beyond 24 hours is a showstopper. It makes the system unfit as an emergency power source. There have been extended power outages and loss of internet connectivity every month this past year in communities all over the US. What happens if SC/Tesla power loses communication connectivity? If Google can lose reliable internet connectivity to Gmail, Drive and UA-cam for days, so can Tesla Power. Hurricanes in the SE, forest fires in the west and snowstorms in the midwest had entire communities without grid power, and broadband wired home internet service uses grid power. My home in a Chicago suburb was without power in midwinter for +3 days, and without power my gas furnace wouldn't run. Zombie mode is misnamed, it should be called Intelligent mode. It shouldn't be a wished for feature, but standard. At a bare minimum the system should be able to download/upload data to a memory stick so that it can report and be reset or reprogrammed without a service visit by the customer using a cellphone or laptop as an intermediary that can reach the internet at another location.
@@TauCu Tesla and Edison hated each other after Tesla refused to work for him without any rights to his own inventions. Tesla actually worked with Westinghouse to varying degrees of success, mostly because they both hated Edison. So the Car hates the Power Company, and worked with a TV instead. In other words, it's a joke don't take it literally.
I wonder if that powerwall can be configured to charge from the grid late at night - when the electricity is cheap. If so, it could significantly reduce the electricity bill buy using cheap off-peak electricity to power the house during peak hours.( assuming its winter/cloudy and solar cant charge the power wall ) Also, would it ever pay off to install only the powerwall( without solar panels ) just so you could use cheaper off peak electricity all the time.
I think if you only get the powerwall that is its function, just to charge when energy is cheap and use it when it is expensive. I don't know the numbers to see if it is financially viable though
@@jomaloro1492 Hmm, I checked the electricity prices and the difference for me between peak and off peak kw/h is 1.2 cent. I used an online electricity bill calculator to check what kind of difference it would make to switch to 100% off peak consumption and it would save about 200$ a year for an average American consumer( 11000kw/h a year according to internet) Note: I'm from Europe and don't use nearly as much electricity as a typical American.
better insulation to his house would save him a lot of money, night charging would be great in my county is night power 3 times cheaper and you also get about 2 hours in day.
I highly doubt the energy savings from charging with off peak power would offset the effeciency loss of doing 2 energy conversions (electrical to chemical, chemical back to electrical). those steps are not zero loss.
@@UninstallingWindows at least here in the states a lot of regions don't have peak/off peak rates..instead we have ranges per month.. so where i live 0-800 KW is 6.5 cents($0.065) per KW, 800+ is 6.9 cents per KW. we primarily use hydro electric and incinerators for our electricity here.
dude, what is up with your house in terms of isolation? As a norwegian, i am completely shocked to see how much you spend on temperature regulation! I do not even get close to those costs even when its -20C outside and i am heating with electricity! :O
He lives in Southern California, which is a notoriously hot place to live. His house was built in the 1960s when construction and insulation regulations weren't as good as they are now.
Older houses (50's, 60's) in the US were often built with no insulation whatsoever. But also heating with electricity is a lot more energy efficient than cooling.
I live in Florida, in February 2018 had Tesla come out and give est on 7kw system with 1 powerwall 2. After a month salesman came back to sign contract and powerwall went up 600 dollars. Thought it was a little shady but went forward with contract. System was supposed to be done in 3 months or less. 8 months later they had everything ready including the permits and needed me to resign new contracts ( expired after 90 days) I asked if anything had changed and they said no. After looking over found interest rate went up. Then the salesman said he would adjust price of system to offset increase in interest rate . Then powerwall went up same amount of the discount and system was going to cost same as original price and higher interest. Said no thanks ! I am starting to understand why HomeDepot cut ties with them : /
@@iamezza then the rain will be already at ambient temps and will start gruadually usually - so its not a problem. pouring really cold water from a garden hose on a very hot cell can damage them.
@@mareck6946 The problem isn't that the water is cold, it's that the panels in directly sunlight are really hot so there is still a large temperature delta.
Amazed at your presentation, truly amazing ability. The comments added a lot to the whole idea of it. I lived in a cabin using solar on a farm in Hawaii, Sun Frost Refrigerator, used golf cart batteries, kept it simple.
Hes got a major computer network in his garage doing all the newegg content. If he,s averageing slightly over 11.00 dollars a month for electricity and he got half his roof replaced for free he,s ahead of the game in my book. And if he gets enough refferals he can double his tesla storage capacity.
@@shackman9566 It cost him 22k for that system.... while the same system costs around 6k where I live, it's kinda ridiculous how expensive Solar is in the US.
In my experiences with Tesla they strive to provide a safe working environment for their employees. I recall being a young electrician working in live 480v panels with steel fish tapes. We had never even heard of protective gloves or electrical safety boots. I can't believe how big Tesla is considering they had only made like 50 cars 10 years ago.
@@highgroundproductions8590 I live in Florida. What happens when I get hit with a hurricain like Irma and lose both grid power AND my internet for more than a week? This IS a deal breaker for me and i like to say im a Tesla fanboy.
@@xaphanofthenightfall1257 An internet connection isn't required in order for the Powerwall to work. An internet connection is required so the Powerwall can connect to Tesla at least once in a while for software updates. These software updates guarantee your 10-year warranty , otherwise it is only 4. But that's the only reason why an internet connection is required, the Powerwall itself will work just fine without one.
Do the math without the Powerwall lul. His utility does net metering, so the battery is completely redundant. EEVblog did the math based on his solar panel instalation, which paid itself back in around 5 or 7 years and came to the conclusion that adding the Powerwall brings almost zero benefits
Krzysztof Zalewski The battery is for backup. If the grid goes down he will need the powerwall to fill in the times the panels aren’t generating electricity. Nighttime, rainy days etc. we’ve had at least 3 extended outages where I live and although they are usually more annoying and inconvenient than anything else. I’d rather have a powerwall than rely on the electrical grid in a time of true emergency
@@ZealothPL Correct, you would have to have horrific TOU rates to even consider it. Or if they cancel net metering on you and/or really jack up rates to the point kWh via battery is cheaper than your TOU rate. You can program your system to pull from your battery during the highest TOU rates only.
It was so nice to follow Paul's Powerwall series because he's a more relatable and practical person with a normal home, so the video is very useful. Most of these Powerwall/solar installation videos are done by superrich guys with giant mansions where half the video is about how awesome they feel about themselves rather than the nuts and bolts and economics of it. It's great that Paul retrofitted his electrical system with 200A service and made the investment in solar + battery before the tax credit expires, I hope he gets that second battery too, he deserves it. And as prices drop, who knows maybe the other side of the roof can get solar panels too. :)
50KWH during the day? How inefficient are AC units in the US?!?! Most homes here in Australia use inverter style split system heat pumps which use a fraction of the power. You can have a 6kw solar system and still run your AC all day off solar (that's what we do). Great video and lots of useful info but a lot of small improvements could be made (insulation, energy efficient lighting, etc) that would make the whole setup much more efficient.
I was shocked too, maybe it was more efficient to buy a new AC unit then Solars + battery pack. Luckily for us, we don’t need AC units here back in Holland, sometimes in the summer with heatwaves.
@@ookwiebusoo Being from the Netherlands and having lived in America, I wasn't too shocked. Not only are AC units in America terribly inefficient, people also use them terribly inefficiently (comfort before anything else). We've combined a Powerwall and solar panels with a heat pump, the efficiency of this took me by surprise. The heat pump takes care of applications that can run on hot water, the Powerwall (and solar panels) takes care of the rest.
@@nightfly4664 It's not even that. Paul runs a ton of computer hardware (hence the name of the channel), which puts off a ton of heat, and requires more cooling because of it. Running what is essentially a home datacenter will run up the usage easily.
@@nightfly4664 It's not even that. Paul runs a ton of computer hardware (hence the name of the channel), which puts off a ton of heat, and requires more cooling because of it. Running what is essentially a home datacenter will run up the usage easily.
Unfortunately the home gateway/telemetry box is a huge dealbreaker for me. Forcing "always online" and presumably not being overly open about the data captured is something I couldn't live with. The ability to export data from the app/have fully detailed longitudinal data with no time limits available on desktop is clearly something they need to (and probably are) work on, would be great for excel nerds like myself. Dreaming of a neat little .csv I could mess around with. Also, saw a comment say you'd be in the green ($) earlier because of inflation? Definitely not true. If you want to get into that, I'd suggest googling terms like "estimating future value of investments", though if you haven't studied much economics it might be a bit much. You'll definitely be profitable in the long-run though. Awesome video!
We have had Solar for about 6 years. We have front and Back Panels. Our Electric Costs dropped 60% up here in the North East.Its a Game Changer if you want to Use Your Lights etc without Worry .
I made a few in-depth videos on the Powerwall. As for requiring a connection to Tesla, if it doesn't have a connection to Tesla within 24 hours, the system will reboot (if still connected to the grid. If the grid is not connected, then it runs a different state machine internally and will not reboot if it can't connect to Tesla. So, you can run off-grid, and with no connection to Tesla which I demonstrated in a week-long test
I'm part of the Air Conditioning industry , And we always think of how to reduce the power requirements of a house FIRST . After repair work on the electrical distribution and then upgrades to the Attic ventilation , wall insulation and lastly and most important to be last is air conditioning system is last ! I went with ductless Japanese unit that is more ROBOT an air conditioner . During the worst of the summer my power bill was $60.00 . with NO solar power . If my house had a Solar Power setup like yours the POWER PROVIDER would owe ME money ever month ...
@@Crismodin the system is made by Ductless, it is Japanese. since bob lives on the moon where real estate is cheap and abundant, he lives in a 25,000 square foot vacuum bubble that protects his insulated home from the harshness of reality.
First time I've ever heard of those steps before replacing your HVAC unit. If you're in the ac world you should know that the ac should always be the first thing to replace due to cost. Adding insulation to attic/walls will help but it's not as expensive as a 3 piece change out. Even your ductwork will make such an insane difference. Xc25 with an SLP98 or here in California what I would normally recommend an SL280V for the best possible efficiency.
Although the process was longer, they seemed right on top of it, and quite honestly them covering the roof was awesome, and the crew did a good job. Very interesting investigation and presentation of these systems, Paul. I had tenants in an apartment complex inquire about and talked to a few electricians, but ..... interesting to see on one home for sure. Oh yea, and great examples from where you are, less effective here in south Alberta.
That really depends on how energy efficient the home is, he did say that the old 100 amp panel was replaced with a 200 amp one, which was installed in the1960's I think? Houses now are better insulated so more energy efficient. Also he lives in southern California, so it probably gets a little warm depending on how far it is from the cooling effects of the ocean, so maybe keeps the AC on a good amount, which eats up a lot of energy.
@@callak_9974 American homes on average are very power hungry and have shitty insulation. California or not, here in northern Italy we get 40+C° days during the summer, but the AC isn't even near to that level of consumption, mainly thanks to stone/concrete housing, and better windows/doors on newer (30 years old) housing.
Well the thing with solar panels is that over time they degrade, your first year will be your best year and they will slowly generate less and less power so I would be interested in seeing the out put in a few years as well as the updated numbers. I would guess the payoff time to be closer to 15 year. That's assuming you didn't calculate for the degradation.
New panels often produce well in-excess of their rating to account for the aging. Expect a 20yr warranty panel to output its rated wattage at the 10yr mark.
+M Hamma But he based his numbers on the savings with the actual performance of the panels in the first year, not the rated output. The actual performance WILL go down with time, even if that is within specs.
@Winston Videos can't use google? There's a reason you buy panels w/ warranties and a interesting thing happens when they fall out of spec, you get new ones.
Wow 50.3 kWh + 21.6 kWh in one day. We are a family of 4 and only use max of 22 kWh / day in summer and max 14 kWh/day in winter. What are you running besides a shopping mall ac unit.😝
I know right? my dad went crazy of our family of 4 using 10-15 kwh a day maybe they are heating+cooking with electricity only though which would up electricity usage alot; and also the ac
Important to note that the tax credit only reduces what's owed in taxes, it isn't given to you. So if you don't owe money at the end of the year you're pretty much SOL and not really getting any cost reduction with it.
Would be very interesting to see this for a European house that makes use of more modern technology such as a heat exchanger instead of a horribly inefficient AC unit. Or simply without any AC at all ;) Also, a roof which would be directly facing south would strongly improve yields from the cells.
I just calculated that a standard household with 2 adults and 2 kids would need about 4000kWh per year, although I think it might be less. But that's 10kWh a day, the air conditioning is really an incredible power consumer in the US.
Yeah, I live in northern Italy and we only have a 3kw line as a standard here... In the summer here we see 36-38 degree as max temperature spiking over 40 (Celsius, 105 Fahrenheit). But our electrical bill is of just 8 kw/h a day... In winter it goes down to around 3-4. This powerwall would keep us running 2-3 days ahahah
@@klamin_original Its not "just" the AC but it does use quite a significant amount of energy in an average US household (10-15% I read yesterday). If he used the most energy in August (presumably the hottest month) it kinda has something to do with the AC unit. In Europe (or at least in Austria where I live) literally nobody has an electric powered AC unit in their home. Heavy usage in supermarkets and stuff but in a private home not so much. We mostly use a passive heat exchanger which is buried into the ground to work with the heat of the earth thus cooling air without having to use up as much electricity. Also we build houses out of thick bricks so the isolation of our homes is better and you don't need that much cooling. I know someone from Germany who installed solar panels and a wall battery in his home and he is literally making money every month (around 50$/month). So in conclusion it heavily depends on how good you are with managing your power usage but people somehow expect to never buy electricity again when installing solar panels.
I have solar city. my parents and my brother also have it. DONT USE THEM! If you cant afford to buy your solar outright, finance it, dont lease it. cost about the same, you have more control, and you get the keep whatever rebates are available. also at a BARE minimum up size your inverter for more add on capacity. your electrical demends surely wont go down as new tech and electric vehicles become more common and your solar panels will only go down in output over time. having room to add panels in the future is key. also the output of my 3 year old system has gone down noticeably every year
Yea, I live in northeastern US and we don't have AC or use anywhere near that much electricity. People living in colder climates should be able to recoup their investment much quicker than him.
I have used the Corsair systems water cooled system in a simulator. They worked well, didn't like the harsh existence of simulator life. A couple of fan blades decided to desert ship, and one pump gave up. But I have to commend them. 4 Power supplies (2 Corsairs), a 3rd motherboard and a bunch of pumps gave up well before them. But it was an awesome ride! The simulator was a high performance 4 axis device that could execute 3 axes in one second, with 4th (1st axis = 12') in 3 seconds. It could perform Richard Petty Rollover club quals. Bring your own helmet, and injury waiver. What a blast!
Your house was probably build in 1960´s so, it consume around 100-200kWh per m2/year. So if your house is 100m2 that´s 20 000kWh per year. If tesla solar create 30kWh per day in f.e. 200 days in year. You cover 6000kWh per year. But this is way to optimistic scenario! From my point of view I see investing 22k in to new insulation of house as more reliable investment than solar panel.
@@p331083, depends how long he intends to stay, how much he will shave off his bill, etc. It could be sexy. It could also be included in a home value estimation if he were to sell. Gotta think long-term.
It's an old house, what you were looking at was the meter/load center recessed in about 4" of stucco. I wouldn't like to replace it but it's something that would have to be done eventually. Its good to have a disconnect on the outside for the fire department but I recommend locking them. Fire department has bolt cutter's
Very cool. I would recommend installing electric heated floors for renewably powered warmth in the winter time. Also have you beefed up your attic insulation? I remember my attic only had R15 up there...now it is R75.
If you live in a newer home, your roof insulation is probably already good enough which it won't make a diff. In a older house, you may see a 3-5 degrees diff.
Kudos to Paul for this. Early adopters perform a critical service. BUT...if you're looking for a cheap way to use PV to cut your elec. bill, you can try this, depending on the size of yr house, location, etc; Get 4 to 6 Universal 4D Batteries Get a voltage controller/ batt. charger Get 400-600 W of PV panels, keep them clean, in the sun Get cheap 100-200W inverter (if you want A/C out of the batteries) connect together install DC LED lighting system and put it all on the batteries (at correct voltage). this is the only labor intensive part. Lo voltage DC - no change to A/C circuits, no electrician required.
Good points. I think going with a Tesla Powerwall isn't ideal for someone in California who doesn't experience regular power outages. That money would be better off to invest in more panels. Nothing beats a fuel powered generator for backup purposes should you lose power. IMO it is a waste of money to invest in batteries unless you are not connected to the power grid.
@@Bonzi_Buddy Technically.. *batteries* beat a fuel powered generator for backup purposes :P Kinda. Mine (I have battery backed up solar panels) switch instantly the moment the grid goes out - so fast that computers don't turn off, and maybe. the lights flicker. Power comes back on again in 5 minutes? ( this happens all the time ) it switches back.. And quite the contrary. I'm on the east coast and my power (used to) go in and out.. up and down alot. It's worth its weight in gold if you're a 'work-from-home' type. :P
@@wibblywotsits You are wrong on many levels. Batteries run out and then you're done. Generators can be refueled. Lose your power for more than a few hours? Good luck! If you have some kind of battery system to serve as a kind of UPS for the home before flipping that generator, fine. But batteries are costly and inefficient to rely on. I'd sink every extra dollar from a battery system into extra panels if I was hooked to the grid. It is the smart decision. If you have a shitty power company and lose power often I guess the batteries would make sense but that's pretty pathetic picking up their incompetent slack. I'd still just UPS on particular devices that I don't want to lose power on.
@@Bonzi_Buddy >You are wrong on many levels. Batteries run out and then you're done. Generators can be refueled. Lose your power for more than a few hours? Good luck! You missed the part where I said that I sized my batteries such that they give me a day and a half's 'regular usage'. That covers the whole house for a day of lights, computers, heating and so on (minus power hungry devices like stoves and washing machine / dryer). My panels are maxed out - I literally could not buy any more (and still get a credit) else they start marking me as 'not residential' and 'power provider' - so.. yeah, I stuck as much as I could into panels and then ALSO bolted on the battery backup. And while it's true that you can put fuel in a generator, I'm happy with the way mine works - like I said, it's seamless and even on a cloudy day, there's enough panels to recharge the batteries during daytime to cover the night-time power needs.
@@wibblywotsits You can cross your fingers you generated enough energy to power the central air after the 5th day of an outage or get on people for reducing electrical use as that meter runs low. I won't have to do that with a generator. Off grid, I'll take that battery backup. On grid, nope. If your power rarely goes out it is wasteful, if it goes out too often then your power company sucks. Just spend the money and produce twice the juice rather than piss away batteries in your home for some silly bragging rights. At the end of the year, I'm pretty sure financially the guy with twice the panels will come out better than you.
Spending 50KWH in 24 hrs is definitley a HUGE amount of electricity. Normal european family with fridge, few laptops and electric water heater will usually spend MUCH less. Please do not create your opinion on FV powered homes just based on this video.
@Jo In 120 kWh / 24 h == 5 kW average power draw throughout the day and night... You'd find something like that easily if it's in your house! Like an electric water heater with all of the hot water running *somewhere* all the time, a few high pressure sodium street lights, or an oven or an electric range going full bore 24/7. Has a neighbour tapped into your wires to power their weed growing operation?
My family of four ( two adults, two teens) are a heavy electricity user, and we use maybe 9kWh a day. I don't have an electric vehicle to charge up, that would add another 5kWh. I'd suggest you get an clamp meter monitoring thing that will independently measure your electricity use. you might need more than one depending on how many phases you have.
It is all relative. I own a 5,550+ sq/ft home and we have 3 large A/C compressors, 2 pool motors, pool heater/ outdoor lights and blow on average 40-55 KWH per day in Massachusetts. It is very easy to do in a house this size.
@Jo In - That's a shame that your life will be cut short for complaining about your power costs. Where I live we can call the newspapers and still die from natural causes.
We have electric cooking, fridge, freezer, dehumidifier running in the winter, pump for solar water panels, pump for heating, a pc and lights, average daily consumption for the last 7 years 9.1kwh. During the summer if we are away for 2 weeks the daily usage is around 4.5kwh.
Zombie mode would be amazing. I got two Powerwalls for my music studio as I was always having power outages in my area. So far they saved me from one 4 hour outage. It's also amazing that they can recharge themselves with solar and send power at the same time. The technicians have been amazing, they really take a lot of pride in their work. Super happy so far.
Seriously !! You should put an on demand water heater on top of that. Go with a Rheem. Stay away from Eco Smart. It helped a lot with my power use. Cutting my water heating costs by 60+ %.
Gaming History Source A well insulated 180 litre tank loses only about 1.5 to 2 kWh/24hours. Even if you reduced this by half by using on demand heat, you would only save 1 kWh / 24 hours, hardly worth the extra investment. Plus, with stored hot water you can always heat with excess solar or off peak rate electricity. I'd be going down completely the opposite route- installing a much bigger hot water cylinder and pumping as much solar into it as I could.
Electric water heaters are not economical. Gas water heaters - common in CA - are much more so. Thus, on-demand being better than tankless argument first requires knowledge of that fuel in involved. And, on-demand water heaters would usually require and even larger panel upgrade than he had done here or larger gas lines if gas powered. That can easily add $2,000 - $4,000 to the initial costs.
I'm a new subscriber, just wanted to say that your overview of the timeline on your Tesla project is nothing short of excellent! You must be absolutely meticulous with your documentation. Your presentation and production values are exceptional. Great work by you and your team. Best wishes from the Philippines!
I may have missed it but - People posting about solar figures REALLY NEED to include there Commercial KWH cost. Saving $169/month means nothing to anyone except those paying the exact same price commercially. It is nice the actual cost was shown -- Taxpayers (by environmentalist laws) pay 5-Years of power consumption of anyone who installs this system setup. -- Poster did mention being in Southern California which concludes; Without DIRECT "subsidizing" the system takes 16-Years to get investment money back. Now; Here's the key --> Southern California (CA = $0.20/kwh ave). California has the 5th HIGHEST per KWH costs commercially than ALL other intercontinental states (Only out done by RI,MA,CN,NH) which coincidentally is entirely reflective of "green energy" policy already in place that FORCES the commercial power to cater to "subsidized" green energy.
@@johnlaw4309 - So after you've saved $5000 by not paying the higher evening rate, the rest is all savings. That's the worst idea I've heard of so far this year.
Alternate view from Brisbane: got a Powerwall installed with 6.6kw solar/5kw inverter mid August last year. Just got my first full quarter bill utilising the system. My bill for this period last year was $350, and I estimated that my bill this quarter would have been closer to $400, including pay-on-time discount. My bill this quarter was $200 in CREDIT. Saved at least $550 for the quarter. Assuming that the the cost of electricity stays the same (which it will not), and my solar feed-in tariff (20c/kw) stays the same, my ROI for the WHOLE system from a purely financial point is just over 9 years, within the warranty of the battery. Install price was just under $19,000. We've not drawn from the grid since we got it installed. My wife is home with my daughter majority of days. We're smart with our appliance use and with our air con. Our daily usage is typically 12-18KWh. The battery has only dropped below 30% capacity a handful of times, never completely empty, typically overnight it drops to 50%, so assuming the degradation follows the expected graph, it won't affect our average usage at the end of its warranty. Perhaps it's different in Australia. Or at least different in Brisbane. But I don't think the situation is as economically awful as it is made out for EVERY lifestyle and use case.
i actually work for a local residential solar installer in my area and as far as im aware, it most definitely would. The one thing i can say though is alot of the solar installs we do are alot bigger than the installation on this house and when you scale up the number of panels for a bigger roof, the better the end result will be.
Actually it makes the house almost impossible to sell, because of the solar contract. No one wants to assume that liability. No one. Ask any realtor, not solar installer.
The last house I sold had a SolarCity lease and I had no issues finding someone to assume the lease. House sold in just over a week and with about half-dozen potential buyers negotiating. None of them had an issue with the solar lease. The solar system I installed on my next house was a purchase, though it is financed instead of an outright purchase. A lease definitely won't add any value to the home (though I agree that it could make it more difficult to sell even if I didn't have any trouble), but a purchased system will definitely add some value, even if it's not dollar-for-dollar.
@@JustinAZ the house i sold yesterday sold for 10 million dollars and was 7 square feet, oh and 100 people were in line with contracts submitted. See how easy it is to make shit up?
If you sell it a week after install maybe. Try selling it 8-10 years later when the battery is out of warranty, the panels are faded and output is 60-80% MAX of what it used to get, your 20 year shingles are likely on the back end of shitting out on you or god forbid you have a leak and the homeowner has to pay for a new roof, UNDER SOLAR lol. Keep telling yourself that tho. I'm sure you'll be the one that makes crazy money, I have faith in you....
Morgan ma man, as an owner of a solar system.... It never works, you have to get the right type of buyer first, not everyone wants to see a solar system in their roofs, especially in the high mid to high end market, then, even if you meet the right buyer, like the other post said, unless your are selling your house within the first 1-5 years, the thing becomes a liability. The only reason it makes, any sort of sense at all to install a solar system is if you are going to stay put for at least 10 years, and only because of all the TAX incentives, some states like MA, where I am, also have incentives on top of the federal ones, so in the end we had half of our system paid off.
We used a company call O3Home Solar here in Texas. I have a "live above business" totalling about 6k sqft. Our system produces 112% of our usage on average. This was/is the aggreement we made with the company. We took about 3 months total from inquiry to installation. We get a credit on our power bill every month although is fading here in the deep summer heat. Another couple of great things about O3Home Solar is no out of pocket costs to start, and the installation took exactly one day. They even showed up exactly on time after a two hour drive to get to us in the boonies. I'm a big Tesla fan, but I don't know...O3 did a great job for less money.
his electrical use pattern is totally a worst case scenario for any form of electric generation, not just solar. lifestyle changes are required in addition to switching fuel source.
Vagabond .. It seems to me like they forgot to install any form of insulation in his house. Considering the footprint, 50 KWH in one day is ridiculous. I’m wondering if he tries to keep it at refrigerator temps in the summer. Damn ... Since I bought my house, the hottest summer month (31 days according to the bill) only peaked at 720 KWH running the AC full time. His house was built in the 60’s. Insulation or a remodel would have probably been the better option.
Well he's in Southern California (I believe Diamond Bar is SE of Los Angeles) which means he's not getting ocean breeze to help avoid large variances between high & low in a day. High's in upper 80's (30+C) as average high July, Aug, Sept, lower to mid 80's (27+C) June, Oct. Compared to Sweden with the high temp in July just clearing 71 (22C), June, August (20-21C) in the high 60's. May, Sept 15-16C) Finally their variance between average high and low temperatures is 24F-30F different compared with Sweden variance of 7-17F between average high and average low. He's just in an area with extreme heat and wide variations between average high and low in a day.
I'm just outside Dallas Texas. I've used as much as 170 KWh in a day. I drive a Tesla that alone will drink 40 or 50 kwh when it does a significant charge (and some days as much as 70kwh).
UK user here. There was a 1 month wait for battery install back in Sep 2018. 50 kWh daily usage! Wow. I averaged 10 kWh over the last 7 years (pre-solar). October grid usage reduced by 66%, November by 25%, December 13%, January 33%, February 45%. Was told Powerwall won't work during a power cut in case engineer is working on the power line. To prevent the wall inadvertently sending power to the grid. Agree with you regarding getting info. from the app. - I just end up taking screenshots daily and putting the figures into a spreadsheet. Payback also estimated around 11 years incl. government tariffs.
Did you take into account the % the panels lose in efficency each year?? Great video all around you saved in the long run on the free roofing by what 35%??
A lot of things can cause this: Old AC unit, or one needing repair People inside like it colder Poor insulation due to age or construction error Older breaker box Climate requirements. Humid or hot climates will run AC more Luckily he lives in one of the sunniest places in the country so he can offset that with higher solar output
i’ve talked to some people who are interested in this system with the intent on trying to sell power on the ISO markets through the utility. All i can say is be prepared for large monthly scheduling fees at around 2500 a month if you want to go that route regardless of how much you sell. you will need a lot of land to cover with panels to be able to just offset your cost to participate on the market plus the cost of the system itself.
@@derekwright5722 Is your heat based on electricity or gas. Is you hot water heated with gas? Do you cook with gas? Add those 3 things to your electric usage and see what your usage would be. Then move into a single family home with a lot of extra footage to heat and cool.
It really fucking is. I live in their stomping ground and those fuckers charge way more than other places in the us. Also they have a nuclear power plant which is leaking into the ocean, good job SoCal Edison
Interesting that it doesn't work if it doesn't have connection back to Tesla. I have talked with Tesla about getting that system, but larger and told them one of the things that made me most interested was post-hurricane/storms when we have no power or anything up to weeks at a time in some places. The Tesla rep said it is great for that. I wonder how that can be when it has no connection to their server. I need to look into that more. Thank you.
Living in California, and having LADWP (not Edison) as the source of grid powering, and time of use net metering (TOU), the PowerWall is probably the WORST investment that one can do around your home. It only makes sense to charge during low cost periods of the four months per year, and to use the stored power during high cost periods, generally between 1:00 and 5:00 PM. Doing very detailed calculations, which I have presented to Tesla, it will take over 40 YEARS to break-even on your investment. Tesla could not dispute my calculations. They agreed that the only economic benefit of the PowerWall is for those people who have common power outages, those who live in rural areas without access to the grid, and those who simply like to physical look or tech look of the PowerWall. But they agreed, that under normal circumstances it not a money saving investment in any way.
Because California lol. It's crazy the red tape he had to go through. I installed a 400w system on my shed here in Canada and the hardest part was sourcing out the equipment within the country (to avoid expensive customs and shipping fees) because solar is not really popular here. Once I had all the parts I needed I proceeded with the install. No government or 3rd party was ever involved and it's a fully self sustained system. I may do the house eventually. I won't do grid tie though I don't think we have that option here anymore, those programs tend to come and go and arn't reliable because you're at the mercy of the government and they change stuff all the time like payout rates etc.
@@redsquirrelftw No huge difference in CA. The key is the grid tie. You go that route, you play by their rules. And, there are building codes. Fire Departments here have a say in panel installation because they want access to your roof for fire fighting purposes. The utilities have requirements that must be met to so as to ensure their own worker's safety. Most people I know can barely change a light bulb. Design and installation of a solar electric system is way out of their league.
Here in Texas, I had to go through the utility company as well to get it installed and they demanded to have an external shut off panel installed as well. Even though inverter had a shut off they wanted a separate panel. And I had to get their permission to install it and they had to come out and inspect
It's great you included quite specific details regarding costs and payback periods... interesting to note that they payback period is longer than the warranty on the battery. 11yrs is not a super great payback period for a 30k upfront investment... Your tax credit is a tax credit, shouldn't really be treated as a negative cost, which means payback on the full $30k is somewhere around 15yrs... So you have 30k sitting in your pocket which you could do.anything with; is an investment in a solar system the best option? Probably not. Maybe if it's your forever home and you can monetize the install by making a UA-cam video about it 😂... $30k is enough to start a business or invest in stocks, both of which could easily outperform a 10-15yr payback period...
his $30k investment yields avg $170 a month in electricity, about $2k a year. and that's IDEAL: single story home, roof facing southern sky, house in middle of the lot with low trees so no big roof shadows, SoCal latitude, AND costly grid power all combine to make his solar situation THE BEST and it STILL takes 15 years to JUST BREAK EVEN. Even THAT assumes all his equipment stays perfect and never fades/breaks over 15 years which is unrealistic. Also doesn't include time energy and attention etc. compare that to $30k in a normal low-cost index fund yielding say 8% a year? which by the way is TRULY hands off maintenance free? Doubles in 9 years, not 15. 7 YEARS SOONER WITH NO LABOR OR HOUSE ALTERATIONS!!! plus, you could sell at any time, get back your original $30k plus returns so far. Not true of course of old solar equipment. i think most just want to buy a nerd hobby they can tinker with and talk about when star trek gets boring. 16 YEARS TO TURN $30K IN DOLLARS INTO $32K IN ELECTRICITY? stupid bad plan.
You forget that the battery is the only part that has a warranty as 'short' as 10 years on it. The solar cells have 20 years and the entire system has an expected lifespan of 35 years. Even if he has shit luck and has to replace the battery after 11 years, that's going to be maybe $10k (or likely a lot less with advances in technology), which will pay for itself long before that warranty runs out. Also, I'm quite fond of the thought of investing money you don't need right now (remember he paid straight, no financing) to reduce future upkeep cost. If his career were to take a nosedive or the economy crash and burn, he'll still have almost no power bills to deal with.
@Ziggi Mon so that has been the same argument for people who push solar for decades "its too expensive now but in a few years cost will be down and efficiency up". 20 - 30 years of that and still solar is an overpriced underachiever. Musk does one thing right, Marketing. His companies and products are garbage, or at the very best no better than his competitors, but his marketing wank is spot on.
@@Steamrick > warranty has to do with unexpected failure. Functionality decreases are very much expected. 35 years from now the panel will output pretty much nothing with a long history of upkeep. Youre not investing in anything, youre buying all the risk of a small-scale localized panel hub, without any of the pros and you have no expertise to upgrade it without paying market price for the guidance and installation. You are not going to outsmart multi-billion dollar energy companies by buying (their!) products and promises anytime soon.
Why not count the cost as 22k instead of 30?? Assuming you would have paid that tax, but didn't have to because of the credit, you must count the deduction. Stocks long term make about 9% (1965 through 2012 figures, S&P 500). That's a bit better than the 7% equivalent that the Tesla investment is making for this guy. But stocks also have some risk. Overall, it's actually a pretty close race between the Powerwall and the S&P.
Seriously, do you know how much money you could save on everything if you just moved away from California? You have the ability that most people don't, you can live anywhere and still have your job Paul!
That's what people that don't live in California, say about California. If only I could leave my friends and family and a place I love so I can save some money and live in... Iowa. Ok. Lol.
His Wife still works locally so that won't work in Paul's case. Also California is a hub in the tech industry being local does give a tech reviewer advantage that others don't have.
50kWh, wuuut? It cost us about 2€ of electricity a day so about 15kWh a day, and that´s with electric heating and all in winter, although no ac in summer.
@@DanielLopez-up6os That's CHEAP dude don't complain. Here a single kWh cost 0.23 Euro Cent. So 15kWh = 3,45 Euro. In our country insulation is VERY popular and you can earn it back in some situations in 8 months. Insulation both helps keeping the house cool and warm with little energy input. Even the kWh prices are high, electric cars are popular here too. Because in that regard even 0,23 euro cent is still cheap. :)
Because you paid for the system up front (instead of financing) you need to factor in the opportunity cost of that money. Likely, you will never break even.
By that math you will never break even on any purchase. Financing assumes he will pay X in interest while making >X in interest in his investments. The best rate he could get would be 4% for financing, so he will have to make 6% or more each year AFTER taxes and fees. All he would be doing is paying more to financial institutions. They are the modern day Lords of the Manor. We are all their tenants thinking we own the stuff we have "borrowed" from them. FWIW, remember this person would be paying for electricity anyway. Secondly, the rates for grid power will only go up and not down. This will be because of fuel charges (generation), delivery charges (transmission) and service charges. Fuel bcos natural gas will get more expensive, nuclear has been atrocious in SoCal, and with the fire hazards they are going to have to bury a lot of the transmission lines and those costs are going to be transferred to rate payers. Also with the need to make the grid "smarter" and more secure from hacking, money will be spent. One last thing, this gentleman is comparing the worst usage months (summer) of 2016 and 2017 with 2018. A more reliable number will be the full 12 month cycle. As you get to winter and spring, you will still produce decent power on the solar in SoCal (I live in San Diego) while your power needs drop due to no need for a/c. I changed all the lights in my house over a 2 yr period from 65W floodlights to 8.5W LEDs and I can actually see a reduction in my power usage. Next step to replace my ancient pool pump with a newer variable-speed pump. Remember most of these are changes you would be needing anyway, so every penny you save in the long run is a plus. And, in 12 years he will be generating power for free. He spent close to $25k. At 5% interest that would have become $45k in 12 years. That is before taxes. Do you think he would miss the "extra" $20k while he is living and having so much fun with his gadgets? :-)
@@somedudeapfu What are you talking about? If you are trying to recoup a 20k investment made in today's dollars you will need a lot more paid back in the future to break even. In 15 years that 20k could be worth 35k.
Do you think a second powerwall would do much to reduce your costs? I'm not sure how much your battery sits at 100%, but if it's frequently topped up (which from your video I assume it's not) then it might do pretty well in reducing your total grid draw to get another battery.
Anyone else find it funny that Edison will take the excess electricity from Tesla?
In the form of AC. 😎
Take that Edisson!
Even Funnier = That He Will Still Charge you To Install this Unit = Why it Cost So Much to Begin with !
Ante Pavelić He’s South African, even if he was British that would make him by default not American. How is TESLA (the company) shitty? They make really cool stuff if I do say so myself. And are you this mad about every little dumb joke?
@Ante Pavelić You are an idiot.
I cannot believe it.... in very good sun for NorthWest NJ yesterday, ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg this panel actually kicked up to the full 100W input.I have several other folding 100W panels....one is almost as good, in the same sun/position and minute later kicked in 87W and yet another....I had just gotten because of the good price, and because I have a few other battery packs, needed another, but that went back today. It only kicked up to 67W when the 100 pulled 100W. I expect a bit less than the full wattage, I'e been using solar and battery packs for nearly a decade, so know what to expect....but I have never had a panel this good. I do have two of them to chain together. They cost more than many of the 100W folding panels sold on Amazon, but they are worth the extra $50-100.
THANKS FOR WATCHING EVERYONE!
FOLLOW-UP VIDEO: Will The Powerwall/Solar Save Me in a Zombie Apocalypse? ua-cam.com/video/vkdf_h03j0U/v-deo.html
An important note on that 30% federal tax credit if you're in the US -- it won't always be there!
2016 - 2019: Federal tax credit remains at 30%
2020: 26%
2021: 22%
2022 onwards: 10%
Also, I *just* got my electric bill for Nov-Dec, and it's -$9.79 (about a 10 dollar credit). 😁😁😁
Paul's Hardware Thats the residential credits. Businesses still get the credit more than the rest of us. :(
Hopefully the state provides additional credits for battery systems once they get more affordable, to upgrade our systems once batteries get cheaper.
Still, must feel nice to walk out of the house knowing that the sun is generating cash in your pockets.
Michael
Problem is the ramp up time when the sun sets and people go home. They already changed the TOU rates to reflect this. It punishes people from 4 to 9 pm who cook, clean, and turn on their AC in the afternoon and evening. Hoping there will be more battery storage credits in the future to account for this.
Solyndra Subsidies, glad they are going away. Poor people shouldn't be helping pay for Rich People Panels. If you can afford the panels, you can afford to pay for them yourself. They increase the value of your house and save you money, if they aren't financially worth it, don't buy them. Expecting subsidies for them is ridiculous. Get out of my pocket.
Paul, do you think that there is any increase to the value of your home from this upgrade? (not counting the half roof re-shingle)
Thanks for the always on warning.
I have to agree with many of the other people in your comments;
Your very next house project needs to be on energy efficiency, you're wasting so much and we can tell why.
Paper thin walls, inefficient or overprovisioned HVAC, use of space heaters. Make a bunch of small, cheap, improvements and I reckon you could save around 30% of your energy usage on hot and cold days 👍
I know right, where I live one kilowatt is only .624 $/kWh and we only use 950 kilowatts a month in a 2800 square foot home built in 2008 with quality equipment.
@@austinodell9046 so you pay 62.4 cents per kwh? Thats $592.00 per month, or do you pay 6.24 cents pre kwh? (.0624 cents not .624 cents) $59.28? Where I am we pay about .13 cents per kwh, you are getting a way better price. Our new house has R24 walls and R55 ceilings using quality equipment, and I can't see where we would save any electricity costs except on AC.
Inverter AC unit
I don't really care how much energy I use. I use enough to keep it comfortable in my house. My electric bill is exactly 109.00 a month every month. I don't go crazy with usage but I do keep it comfortable in my house. Thermostat doesn't move off 70 degrees year round.
@@Vgp-rp4iu I have a bad news for you. You pay only for estimated usage, that's why it is exactly the same amount every month. Once they check you meter, they make you pay for the difference. There is no free lunch, there is no free energy, man.
I made a few in depth videos on the Powerwall. As for requiring a connection to Tesla, if it doesn't have a connection to Tesla within 24 hours, the system will reboot (if still connected to the grid. If the grid is not connected, then it runs a different state machine internally and will not reboot if it can't connect to Tesla. So, you can run off-grid, and with no connection to Tesla which I demonstrated in a week-long test.
I also dislike the fact that it requires a Tesla connection because it shares your usage data. At the end of the day, this is just a battery. It shouldn't be a requirement to share your usage details (ie, when you put the kettle on, or are away from home for a few days).
I am generally grid connected (apart from blackouts), so I set up the firewall to allow the Powerwall to talk to Tesla for 15mins, twice a day, at a rate of 2kbps. This gives it a very crippled link but allows it to get its handshake and therefore not reboot, so Tesla can't really bleed any significant data from me.
why do people buy his crap. there must be a thousand better options
@@spoonicush.christ3252 They get something like this because it's an integrated solution. One source for purchasing everything, one source for support and repair. Now if you're a solar / battery expert, I'm sure you can put together a less expensive system from 4 or 5 different manufacturers. But when something breaks then you have 4 or 5 different manufacturers pointing at the other guys and the installer.
It's Apple, repeating.
ApexMike Yep, superior products
The battery itself is fantastic. The computer that controls it, with it's stupid uplink requirement is where the downfall is.
You have made quite the journey from those old Newegg videos back in the day. Glad to see you still going strong, keep it up.
Sadly, NewEgg sucks ass now.
I thought this video was a suburban legend. Many have spoken of it, but no one had actually seen it.
Very nice of the state to allow you to use the sun
Freedom right.
It's got nothing to do with the usage of the sun you are tied onto their power grid and feeding power back to them so they must make sure the system is okay. DA
@@tarlach1280x960 And even if it weren't tied to the grid, they need to make sure it won't start a fire in their town, which could spread to neighbors' homes - not to mention take town resources to extinguish.
@@burke615 That's why u use a licensed contractor who knows what is he doing.
The issue is the house is still connected to the grid. Tesla will isolate the house when the grid is off and being worked on. The point is, you don't do the house right it can be a hazard to the grid. I have beef with regulated off grid houses.
Paul, a couple things for you. 1. You can run your system with out the gateway. All it does is send back the production and usage data. So you would lose all of your reporting data that’s all no shut down. Those things fail all the time and go months with out getting properly connected. 2. It seemed you were confused about the powerwall energy flow. You are correct in saying the powerwall is backing up your AC when the grid is up. The powerwall covers everything while the grid is up. In the event of a grid outage the backup gateway then isolates those breakers that were put in your backup breaker. I assume the only this excluded was your AC unit and that in because of the current draw it has on start up which can overload the powerwall. As mentioned before this is grid down only.
Good to know the gateway wont shut everything down, thanks.
Zombie mode~!
wait ... isn't there a telstra warranty attached to the gateway being able to upload metrics/usage/performance stats ?
@@Toliman. Telstra in California? You must be from Australia like me.
@@dnomyarnostaw i blame autocorrect ... :)
After getting Solar panels installed I began taking an interest my power bill details . I became much more conscientious of which systems in the house were consuming power. Simple things like for example a 100W light bulb left on for a day uses 2.4 kw/day. Multiply that by a billing period, say 66 days, that's 158 kW/h. Turning things off when you don't need them can make a huge difference to your power bill.
Likewise, a fan only uses around 75 watts, whereas an A/C uses 3000-5000 watts.. so, even if you're running the A/C, it's worth having a floor fan pointed at you or a ceiling fan on to make you feel cooler.. you will set the AC at a higher temperature, it will cycle on less frequently, and the savings of that is actually exponential because to lower 80 degrees to 78 degrees requires far less energy than to lower 70 degrees to 68 degrees.
This has to do both with the properties of keeping cool as the temperature difference between inside and out increases, as well as the decreased efficiency of an A/C under higher loads.. total energy difference becomes quite significant.
I checked my electricity usage after seeing his usage of 50+ KWH a day and couldn't believe it. For five people ages 24-26 living in a house built in 1904, all with computers, lights left on occasionally, a space heater and sporadic usage of my home shop (table saw, joiner, lathe etc). We have used a MAX of 12.39 KWH/day in November and a minimum of 4.1 KWH/day in March. Granted we don't have AC and live in the north east, but still that's crazy to me that someone could routinely be using 40KWH/day+.
Imagine me (German daughter of an builder) being confronted with single plain windows and ac/heating systems with miserable efficiency and lack of insulation anywhere I go!
I live in Phoenix and I can tell you that his power draw is nothing compared to Paul's. When you have 120F weather the AC is on non stop and that draws a ton of energy.
3/4 of that is his grow room...
Yeah, first priority is to stop using so much gd electricity. I live with a three person household in a poorly insulated Victorian house in zone 5. Last year we used an average of 5.56kwh/day. Americans use way more A/C than they need, and they pay for it.
@@fixt100 I was going to post the exact same thing lol.
What a great video! I love your direct no nonsense approach coupled with what genuinely seems like an honest assessment of the whole process. Thanks for your contribution to the community man.
Finally some hard evidence. Thanks for taking the time to write up this detailed analysis! Much appreciated. Man, it hurts if you don't have that tax credit. Yikes.
It's really only viable if there is a tax credit. Which is why there is a tax credit. Which I don't necessarily agree with. The LED bulb has been an energy revolution. Energy use is way down due to that alone. I don't think we should be subsidizing solar for homes. And industry, where it is really needed, can pay for it themselves. Australia has pretty much killed off their tax credit. People who were looking at 7-10 years to break even woke up one day and it turned into 20 years.
R T so interesting points. How do you feel about Oil subsidies? An argument is shifting those subsidies could change the face of energy and transportation. Technically, this subsidy makes transportation profitable or more viable. Do you feel we should keep them there, change them or remove them?
Well if you own your home, it makes sense as well if you don't plan on moving.
Except if he didn't bother with the Powerwall he would have seen the upgrade pay back way sooner. Right now the Powerwall makes no sense if the grid will credit you for feeding in - the grid acts as an almost perfect, free battery (which is really wrong)
@@ZealothPL especially if theres no off grid/zombie mode and u have to be connected via internet, The grid is your battery pack. Future with no coal plants i can see the power wall being on every house with a grid so every house has a storage point to collectively run the city's i guess. But good point what real benifit is it hmmm. My buddy in palm spings has solar and its large enough theres only 2 months he uses more then he makes so he doesnt pay any ellectric bill ever. at the beginning i belive he was getting a check for 70-90$ month.
Yessss, I've been waiting for this 😍
I'm a bit disappointed, as you said, with the lack of detailed statistic in-app and on their website, that's a bit odd for them. Hopefully, they'll work on it.
The futurists of the 1950s never predicted our machines would sputter and stop if they lost internet connectivity.
Those 1950's futurists mostly believed that our machines would be nuclear powered, nothing would be using engines that could sputter and cars would be replaced by personal flying vehicles. Those of the 1990 (ST DS9) believed that by 2020 unemployed citizens would be kept in "Sanctuaries".
Always online, completely useless otherwise. Not quite the system for the Off-Griders, and a bit out of my network heh heh. Now where is my little 0.001 watt solar calculator?
We finally hear that at the end. If the your internet connection goes out, it doesn't work. It's useless in a shtf situation, or aftermath of a hurricane, earthquake etc. And about 15 years to break even on the investment with no tax credit. What a joke.
@Informed Optimist Ok, good you can run it independently of the grid, thanks. But the initial investment is still overwhelming.
I'm from Canada, but have lived in Jamaica for the last 8 years. My electricity costs are about 20 US$/month. No air conditioning, of course, but the windows work - that's what they're for. Assuming I got a system that gave me just 25% of his capacity, I'd be long dead by the time I broke even. That is, if a hurricane doesn't destroy the panels.
I'll stick with my 2.2 KW generator as a back up.
@@JCO2002 My average electric bill in Rhode Island is +-400$ a month (second most expensive electric fees after Hawaii in usa) for me it will be highly profitable to go fully solar even with the cost. really depends where you live . our electric cost average around 22cent per kilowatt . Adding up prices increase every year ,in 10year prices will def be insane
Wow, that internet requirement is a deal killer for me. I'm reminded of the folks in Northridge after the quake that were without power for weeks. Obviously this setup will provide power, and if the ISP is still active,, all good. But if the internet is down as well, then you might as well have no solar at all. Big flaw.
Great video, btw.
ua-cam.com/video/9kXTqNqxK3s/v-deo.html
Ummm as far as I know, if the main grid goes off, so does your solar power. They don't want your solar panels/battery energizing the local power lines as they are trying to repair them.
@@Hossak Enphase is working on fixing that real soon. Can't wait
@@Hossak A simple blade switch and some UPSs on your electronics would solve that. I believe automatic change over systems are also available.
I Agree with your Zombie mode comment, one of the main reasons I want a Tesla Wall is for emergency power in a power out scenario. I Did Not Know this was a monitor or no use system... (So disappointed Elon. :(
@Larry Butler There is no difference between solar generated power when grid is available and when not. Emergency outage service isn't the same as having a totally uninterruptible power system. An all-electric solar system is more dependable than a mechanical engine-driven generator when outages are for days or weeks and fuel trucks can't make deliveries.
At the minimum likely output, undamaged solar roof panels ought to be able to provide sufficient emergency power during the day for basic habitability. A simple grid-held relay ought to be able to shed non-essential circuits of a rationally designed home electrical system.
Expect more im sure they will improve more over time
Larry Butler diesel systems require maintenance and refueling. That is fine if you are a mechanically minded person and use the system regularly. If you don’t use it for 2 or 3 years you have a mess. Unlike a battery back up you can’t charge when power is cheap and use power at peak times.
@@psdaengr911 "undamaged solar roof panels" And how likely is that after a hurricane?
@Larry Butler yep . Plus if ya wanna go solar. You can put together a solar set up n build your own solar generator for a fraction of the price for this Tesla solar shit
I find it ironic that you would spend that much money on this and completely ignore how inefficient your house is. You should really have your house properly insulated. You'll see a much better ROI, and your powerwall will last longer.
It's not about ROI. It's like when an idiot gives money to his church. In this case, the unprovable religion is...... Environmentalism.
@S Userman
everything you said is wrong. Are you on drugs??
@S Userman yeah man, this is waaay worse than a coal powered generator in your backyard
skmetal7 dude you are talking about american cheap houses no wonder they are not insulated ! i could punch in a door with my hand and kick through the wall. even if a car drives in you‘re house it will most likely go straight through it..
@@rationalityfirst At least coal power plants generates CO2 which plants need to grow and survive... unlike solar panels which are not biodegradable...
with inflation, you could well be in profit in about 8 years
youweechube Apparently it’s gonna be sooner than we think, check out r/economiccollapse on reddit.
massive surprise someone with your name is recommending reddit articles that place is worse than twitter.
MrYaxalot excuse me? Ok asshole relax. You could simply ignore my recommendation.
@@granautismo786 I was honestly just assuming u were trolling with your name and a reddit recommendation
@@MrYaxalot Who hurt you?
51 seconds into the video I'm pausing to comment. EXCELLENT VIDEO! What I love about this video (already), which is a point where about 99.9% of all videos on ScrewTube fail (if they're not fluffy candy-coated crap) is that the delivery is concise and to the point. It isn't 10x longer than it has to be while the presenter wanders off into side tracks and searches like a lost lamb for what is supposed to be conveyed. Preparation was obviously done very meticulously and that's where the quality comes from. I cannot stress this enough: the video stays on track, it delivers concentrated information in a well-prepared and efficient way. Most of ScrewTube can take many lessons from this video. Awesome job.
agreed
Agree with Chris. This is such an efficient and lucid presentation.
I absolutely love the idea of the Tesla powerwall....but I hate the internet connected requirement of it. That, to me, defeats the purpose of investing that much money into a solar/power bank system on the property. Love the video, and the breakdown of your usage though.
The powerwall doesn't seem like an efficient add on if you live in a sunny area like CA. Just seems like an expensive extra when most homes will be in a power storage deficit.
@Grand Admiral Thrawn Powerwall is certainly not overpriced. It's actually once of the cheapest batteries currently available. As for the internet connection, it's not just a battery.
@Grand Admiral Thrawn I guess it can store grid energy overnight? That would be beneficial if electricity is cheaper in night hours.
Not to say it actually stores electricity generated by solar panels.
@Grand Admiral Thrawn Powerwall is more like software with batteries on the side than just batteries. Regular software updates (almost on a monthly basis: www.tesla.com/support/energy/own/powerwall/software-updates) improve the functionality of the system (optimizing BMS, inverters, etc) and add extra features. Also, it allows the system to check the weather, talk with the grid, enable monitoring, etc. The main reason though is that Tesla wants access in order to improve the core firmware as hi-performance lithium batteries require the supporting hardware to work as optimally as possible and thus last for more than a decade.
@@izybit, I can back this up. Do this kind of work for a living and I can't tell you how much of a headache controls are. In order to make the most of the battery you have to know when to dispatch it, which gets hard depending on the state of charge, pricing signals and past load profiles. All of this is not going to happen locally as most systems of this type use machine learning, unless you are doing microgrids. Another reason for it being hooked up to the internet is that if he has filed for the ITC he has to report to the IRS proving that he charged his battery up with the contractually obligated PV generated energy. Tesla does this as a service for you. It's not as simple as hooking batteries up to a wall outlet as when he was discussing the PTO. In fact I would highly caution anyone building their own system unless they know they would be able to get it past their Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ). Doing otherwise could get you in a legal bind.
Finally I been waiting for 6 months for this video. Thank you
Wow. I was not aware of the always-on-internet requirement. My primary reason for wanting this is for disaster use - I'm in the Pacific Northwest where a big earthquake is "due" - and if it happens, grid power will likely be gone for weeks if not months. The fact that this solar system would stop working in 24-48 hours after such an event (as internet would go down, too,) would make it pointless for that.
An excellent review, though! Thank you for all the detail!
There has to be a work around... right? I'm in that same "due to shake" area, but so is Tesla?
The comments about heaters in the panels for snow clearing, and this internet requirement are my points of contention with the project.
I think it's important to mention that Paul and family are home during the day. If you are single and work this would totally be a good fit since you would normally be gone during the day when the wall is charging
I'll admit it is a good point, and given his profession his usage is higher than 'average' people. However that's offset by his otherwise nearly ideal situation So. Cal sun, high elect. prices, 30% discount (tax rebate) and ROI is still estimated to be 11 years (which means likely closer to 15)
@@donaldrobertson5747 ha yeah I wouldn't mind that CA sun right about now.
IMO, dependence on internet connectivity for continued use beyond 24 hours is a showstopper. It makes the system unfit as an emergency power source. There have been extended power outages and loss of internet connectivity every month this past year in communities all over the US. What happens if SC/Tesla power loses communication connectivity? If Google can lose reliable internet connectivity to Gmail, Drive and UA-cam for days, so can Tesla Power.
Hurricanes in the SE, forest fires in the west and snowstorms in the midwest had entire communities without grid power, and broadband wired home internet service uses grid power. My home in a Chicago suburb was without power in midwinter for +3 days, and without power my gas furnace wouldn't run. Zombie mode is misnamed, it should be called Intelligent mode. It shouldn't be a wished for feature, but standard.
At a bare minimum the system should be able to download/upload data to a memory stick so that it can report and be reset or reprogrammed without a service visit by the customer using a cellphone or laptop as an intermediary that can reach the internet at another location.
I'm thinking the same thing, it's the whole reason for going solar
IRONIC THAT 2 COMPANIES CALLED TESLA AND EDISON WORKED TOGETHER TO SET YOU UP LOL 😂🤣😂
That's their job, they're a utility.
@@TauCu Tesla and Edison hated each other after Tesla refused to work for him without any rights to his own inventions. Tesla actually worked with Westinghouse to varying degrees of success, mostly because they both hated Edison.
So the Car hates the Power Company, and worked with a TV instead. In other words, it's a joke don't take it literally.
@@TauCuWhoosh
Ikr lol Tesla is rollin in his grave rn
@@TauCu awwwwww come on, man.
I wonder if that powerwall can be configured to charge from the grid late at night - when the electricity is cheap. If so, it could significantly reduce the electricity bill buy using cheap off-peak electricity to power the house during peak hours.( assuming its winter/cloudy and solar cant charge the power wall )
Also, would it ever pay off to install only the powerwall( without solar panels ) just so you could use cheaper off peak electricity all the time.
I think if you only get the powerwall that is its function, just to charge when energy is cheap and use it when it is expensive. I don't know the numbers to see if it is financially viable though
@@jomaloro1492 Hmm, I checked the electricity prices and the difference for me between peak and off peak kw/h is 1.2 cent. I used an online electricity bill calculator to check what kind of difference it would make to switch to 100% off peak consumption and it would save about 200$ a year for an average American consumer( 11000kw/h a year according to internet)
Note: I'm from Europe and don't use nearly as much electricity as a typical American.
better insulation to his house would save him a lot of money, night charging would be great in my county is night power 3 times cheaper and you also get about 2 hours in day.
I highly doubt the energy savings from charging with off peak power would offset the effeciency loss of doing 2 energy conversions (electrical to chemical, chemical back to electrical). those steps are not zero loss.
@@UninstallingWindows at least here in the states a lot of regions don't have peak/off peak rates..instead we have ranges per month.. so where i live 0-800 KW is 6.5 cents($0.065) per KW, 800+ is 6.9 cents per KW. we primarily use hydro electric and incinerators for our electricity here.
dude, what is up with your house in terms of isolation? As a norwegian, i am completely shocked to see how much you spend on temperature regulation! I do not even get close to those costs even when its -20C outside and i am heating with electricity! :O
He lives in Southern California, which is a notoriously hot place to live. His house was built in the 1960s when construction and insulation regulations weren't as good as they are now.
@@SalandFindles the fun years when asbestos was used in insulation but was slowly phasing out
Older houses (50's, 60's) in the US were often built with no insulation whatsoever. But also heating with electricity is a lot more energy efficient than cooling.
@@danieljensen2626 ours had newspapers when we moved in
@@knightwolf3511 newspapers are still being used.
I live in Florida, in February 2018 had Tesla come out and give est on 7kw system with 1 powerwall 2. After a month salesman came back to sign contract and powerwall went up 600 dollars. Thought it was a little shady but went forward with contract. System was supposed to be done in 3 months or less. 8 months later they had everything ready including the permits and needed me to resign new contracts ( expired after 90 days) I asked if anything had changed and they said no. After looking over found interest rate went up. Then the salesman said he would adjust price of system to offset increase in interest rate . Then powerwall went up same amount of the discount and system was going to cost same as original price and higher interest. Said no thanks ! I am starting to understand why HomeDepot cut ties with them : /
This is just a scam. Snake oil, nothing new... but now some retards think they are saving the planet...
And still no update on the HTPC setup. lol
And I realized you mentioned it at the end. lol
Someone didn't watch all the way to the end....
gotcha 😉
Read more. I already addressed it. ;)
Don't forget to clean the panels if they are dirty the efficiency will go down
you dont have to do that too often. also DO NOT DO IT WITH WATER WHILE THEIR IN THE SUN.
@@mareck6946 What happens if it rains when the sun is out though? (aka A sun shower)
@@iamezza then the rain will be already at ambient temps and will start gruadually usually - so its not a problem. pouring really cold water from a garden hose on a very hot cell can damage them.
@@mareck6946 The problem isn't that the water is cold, it's that the panels in directly sunlight are really hot so there is still a large temperature delta.
@@mar504 yes i know ^^ but thanks
Amazed at your presentation, truly amazing ability. The comments added a lot to the whole idea of it. I lived in a cabin using solar on a farm in Hawaii, Sun Frost Refrigerator, used golf cart batteries, kept it simple.
Amazing that you are pulling numbers like that WITHOUT a south facing roof!
Wow! You really used 50Kwh in a day for power, that is a lot. Have you also looked at insulation and shading?
I concur. The average usage US-wide is slightly above 30Kwh per day.
Hes got a major computer network in his garage doing all the newegg content. If he,s averageing slightly over 11.00 dollars a month for electricity and he got half his roof replaced for free he,s ahead of the game in my book. And if he gets enough refferals he can double his tesla storage capacity.
Last month I used 113kwh for 30 days while running a double door fridge and 2 ton AC!
@@shackman9566 It cost him 22k for that system.... while the same system costs around 6k where I live, it's kinda ridiculous how expensive Solar is in the US.
Building design plays a massive role - a well optimised residence of 4 people can easily use only 4-7 kWh/day
I think Solar panels would work perfectly in Saudi Arabia but it costly though because we pay like 0.1$ for kWh
It cost me on average $0.28 per KWH here in Ontario Canada
Saudi Arabia's new project for solar is estimated cost 1.7 cents per kilowatt hour
You will still need it when the oil activities stop
In my experiences with Tesla they strive to provide a safe working environment for their employees. I recall being a young electrician working in live 480v panels with steel fish tapes. We had never even heard of protective gloves or electrical safety boots. I can't believe how big Tesla is considering they had only made like 50 cars 10 years ago.
The Internet requirement would be a deal breaker to me.
You beat me to it and what's funny is that is exactly how I was going to word my comment.
You can run without the internet as long as you're connected to the grid.
@@highgroundproductions8590 I live in Florida. What happens when I get hit with a hurricain like Irma and lose both grid power AND my internet for more than a week? This IS a deal breaker for me and i like to say im a Tesla fanboy.
@@xaphanofthenightfall1257 An internet connection isn't required in order for the Powerwall to work. An internet connection is required so the Powerwall can connect to Tesla at least once in a while for software updates. These software updates guarantee your 10-year warranty , otherwise it is only 4. But that's the only reason why an internet connection is required, the Powerwall itself will work just fine without one.
@@nightfly4664 Thanks for the clarification. It sounded like a piece of shit investment otherwise.
_Elon Musk Has Entered the Chat_
Hope he wore protection
Hey Elon. 🖕fucking thief
Do the math without the Powerwall lul. His utility does net metering, so the battery is completely redundant.
EEVblog did the math based on his solar panel instalation, which paid itself back in around 5 or 7 years and came to the conclusion that adding the Powerwall brings almost zero benefits
Krzysztof Zalewski The battery is for backup. If the grid goes down he will need the powerwall to fill in the times the panels aren’t generating electricity. Nighttime, rainy days etc. we’ve had at least 3 extended outages where I live and although they are usually more annoying and inconvenient than anything else. I’d rather have a powerwall than rely on the electrical grid in a time of true emergency
@@ZealothPL Correct, you would have to have horrific TOU rates to even consider it. Or if they cancel net metering on you and/or really jack up rates to the point kWh via battery is cheaper than your TOU rate. You can program your system to pull from your battery during the highest TOU rates only.
Very well done video paul. You have my like.
Thank you, right back atcha! 😁
Agreed. This video was thoughrough af.
It was so nice to follow Paul's Powerwall series because he's a more relatable and practical person with a normal home, so the video is very useful. Most of these Powerwall/solar installation videos are done by superrich guys with giant mansions where half the video is about how awesome they feel about themselves rather than the nuts and bolts and economics of it. It's great that Paul retrofitted his electrical system with 200A service and made the investment in solar + battery before the tax credit expires, I hope he gets that second battery too, he deserves it. And as prices drop, who knows maybe the other side of the roof can get solar panels too. :)
50KWH during the day? How inefficient are AC units in the US?!?!
Most homes here in Australia use inverter style split system heat pumps which use a fraction of the power. You can have a 6kw solar system and still run your AC all day off solar (that's what we do).
Great video and lots of useful info but a lot of small improvements could be made (insulation, energy efficient lighting, etc) that would make the whole setup much more efficient.
I was shocked too, maybe it was more efficient to buy a new AC unit then Solars + battery pack. Luckily for us, we don’t need AC units here back in Holland, sometimes in the summer with heatwaves.
Mini-splits are not very popular in the US, central heating/cooling HVAC systems are very much the common thing.
@@ookwiebusoo Being from the Netherlands and having lived in America, I wasn't too shocked. Not only are AC units in America terribly inefficient, people also use them terribly inefficiently (comfort before anything else). We've combined a Powerwall and solar panels with a heat pump, the efficiency of this took me by surprise. The heat pump takes care of applications that can run on hot water, the Powerwall (and solar panels) takes care of the rest.
@@nightfly4664 It's not even that. Paul runs a ton of computer hardware (hence the
name of the channel), which puts off a ton of heat, and requires more
cooling because of it.
Running what is essentially a home datacenter will run up the usage
easily.
@@nightfly4664 It's not even that. Paul runs a ton of computer hardware (hence the
name of the channel), which puts off a ton of heat, and requires more
cooling because of it.
Running what is essentially a home datacenter will run up the usage
easily.
Unfortunately the home gateway/telemetry box is a huge dealbreaker for me. Forcing "always online" and presumably not being overly open about the data captured is something I couldn't live with.
The ability to export data from the app/have fully detailed longitudinal data with no time limits available on desktop is clearly something they need to (and probably are) work on, would be great for excel nerds like myself. Dreaming of a neat little .csv I could mess around with.
Also, saw a comment say you'd be in the green ($) earlier because of inflation? Definitely not true. If you want to get into that, I'd suggest googling terms like "estimating future value of investments", though if you haven't studied much economics it might be a bit much. You'll definitely be profitable in the long-run though.
Awesome video!
Amazing video. Super detailed and thorough in explanations. I live in Miami so this is very helpful in my decision. Thanks for this upload!
We have had Solar for about 6 years. We have front and Back Panels. Our Electric Costs dropped 60% up here in the North East.Its a Game Changer if you want to Use Your Lights etc without Worry .
Are you going to fix that hole in your wall?
@@IzzyCraft I just took a twice look at it and it's still incomplete.
I made a few in-depth videos on the Powerwall. As for requiring a connection to Tesla, if it doesn't have a connection to Tesla within 24 hours, the system will reboot (if still connected to the grid. If the grid is not connected, then it runs a different state machine internally and will not reboot if it can't connect to Tesla. So, you can run off-grid, and with no connection to Tesla which I demonstrated in a week-long test
I'm part of the Air Conditioning industry , And we always think of how to
reduce the power requirements of a house FIRST .
After repair work on the electrical distribution and then upgrades
to the Attic ventilation , wall insulation and lastly and most
important to be last is air conditioning system is last !
I went with ductless Japanese unit that is more
ROBOT an air conditioner .
During the worst of the summer my power bill was $60.00 .
with NO solar power .
If my house had a Solar Power setup like yours the
POWER PROVIDER would owe ME money ever month ...
So does this system have a name or what? Also, how big is your place, what region are you in, what's your general temperatures year-round?
@@Crismodin the system is made by Ductless, it is Japanese. since bob lives on the moon where real estate is cheap and abundant, he lives in a 25,000 square foot vacuum bubble that protects his insulated home from the harshness of reality.
First time I've ever heard of those steps before replacing your HVAC unit. If you're in the ac world you should know that the ac should always be the first thing to replace due to cost. Adding insulation to attic/walls will help but it's not as expensive as a 3 piece change out. Even your ductwork will make such an insane difference. Xc25 with an SLP98 or here in California what I would normally recommend an SL280V for the best possible efficiency.
Although the process was longer, they seemed right on top of it, and quite honestly them covering the roof was awesome, and the crew did a good job. Very interesting investigation and presentation of these systems, Paul. I had tenants in an apartment complex inquire about and talked to a few electricians, but ..... interesting to see on one home for sure. Oh yea, and great examples from where you are, less effective here in south Alberta.
Wow, American homes use a lot of electricity.
That really depends on how energy efficient the home is, he did say that the old 100 amp panel was replaced with a 200 amp one, which was installed in the1960's I think? Houses now are better insulated so more energy efficient.
Also he lives in southern California, so it probably gets a little warm depending on how far it is from the cooling effects of the ocean, so maybe keeps the AC on a good amount, which eats up a lot of energy.
Yep. Likely a home with almost no insulation.
This dude has a wife who loves air conditioning and lives in California. We're not all like that, he's on the extremely high side for power usage.
himynameistim um yes we are lol
@@callak_9974 American homes on average are very power hungry and have shitty insulation. California or not, here in northern Italy we get 40+C° days during the summer, but the AC isn't even near to that level of consumption, mainly thanks to stone/concrete housing, and better windows/doors on newer (30 years old) housing.
Well the thing with solar panels is that over time they degrade, your first year will be your best year and they will slowly generate less and less power so I would be interested in seeing the out put in a few years as well as the updated numbers. I would guess the payoff time to be closer to 15 year. That's assuming you didn't calculate for the degradation.
New panels often produce well in-excess of their rating to account for the aging. Expect a 20yr warranty panel to output its rated wattage at the 10yr mark.
+M Hamma But he based his numbers on the savings with the actual performance of the panels in the first year, not the rated output. The actual performance WILL go down with time, even if that is within specs.
@Winston Videos can't use google? There's a reason you buy panels w/ warranties and a interesting thing happens when they fall out of spec, you get new ones.
@Winston Videos interesting bot response.
Wow 50.3 kWh + 21.6 kWh in one day. We are a family of 4 and only use max of 22 kWh / day in summer and max 14 kWh/day in winter. What are you running besides a shopping mall ac unit.😝
I know right?
my dad went crazy of our family of 4 using 10-15 kwh a day
maybe they are heating+cooking with electricity only though which would up electricity usage alot; and also the ac
Well....look at his room with all the computers, if they run all day they add to the usage a lot.
Americans use way more electrcity than most people, especially due to abundant AC use but also for other reasons.
@@dee-jay45 also that house looks like it's made of cardboard, so probably not very well insulated
I used nearly double that amount, I have an UNRAID box running 24/7 plus a DVR box running 20 IP cams 24/7.
Important to note that the tax credit only reduces what's owed in taxes, it isn't given to you. So if you don't owe money at the end of the year you're pretty much SOL and not really getting any cost reduction with it.
Would be very interesting to see this for a European house that makes use of more modern technology such as a heat exchanger instead of a horribly inefficient AC unit. Or simply without any AC at all ;) Also, a roof which would be directly facing south would strongly improve yields from the cells.
I just calculated that a standard household with 2 adults and 2 kids would need about 4000kWh per year, although I think it might be less.
But that's 10kWh a day, the air conditioning is really an incredible power consumer in the US.
Yeah, I live in northern Italy and we only have a 3kw line as a standard here... In the summer here we see 36-38 degree as max temperature spiking over 40 (Celsius, 105 Fahrenheit). But our electrical bill is of just 8 kw/h a day... In winter it goes down to around 3-4. This powerwall would keep us running 2-3 days ahahah
@@klamin_original Good point! Its literally insane how much power is being wasted in the US due to AC units...
Speedbre4ker But it can‘t be just the AC.
@@klamin_original Its not "just" the AC but it does use quite a significant amount of energy in an average US household (10-15% I read yesterday). If he used the most energy in August (presumably the hottest month) it kinda has something to do with the AC unit. In Europe (or at least in Austria where I live) literally nobody has an electric powered AC unit in their home. Heavy usage in supermarkets and stuff but in a private home not so much. We mostly use a passive heat exchanger which is buried into the ground to work with the heat of the earth thus cooling air without having to use up as much electricity. Also we build houses out of thick bricks so the isolation of our homes is better and you don't need that much cooling. I know someone from Germany who installed solar panels and a wall battery in his home and he is literally making money every month (around 50$/month).
So in conclusion it heavily depends on how good you are with managing your power usage but people somehow expect to never buy electricity again when installing solar panels.
I have solar city. my parents and my brother also have it. DONT USE THEM! If you cant afford to buy your solar outright, finance it, dont lease it. cost about the same, you have more control, and you get the keep whatever rebates are available. also at a BARE minimum up size your inverter for more add on capacity. your electrical demends surely wont go down as new tech and electric vehicles become more common and your solar panels will only go down in output over time. having room to add panels in the future is key.
also the output of my 3 year old system has gone down noticeably every year
@usucdik typically the AC unit, hot water heater, and also the electric furnace if he has one. I suggest Mat has his AC checked out.
Matt your AC unit is probably your problem with the system. Have it checked out.
50KwH seems a lot when I am livign in Hungary with No AC
Yea, I live in northeastern US and we don't have AC or use anywhere near that much electricity. People living in colder climates should be able to recoup their investment much quicker than him.
AC would be nice in Hungary in the summer.....
@@joecleveland6525 10-20KWH is typical for a NE family over where we live. Plus California charges like 20¢ a KWH. 😂
You'd also get much less bright sunlight, so 50KwH is probably out of reach with the same setup in those areas.
@@Diavire Yeah, you'd need more panels. At least where I'm at, we get 3.5x of the panel rating on average per day.
I have used the Corsair systems water cooled system in a simulator. They worked well, didn't like the harsh existence of simulator life. A couple of fan blades decided to desert ship, and one pump gave up. But I have to commend them. 4 Power supplies (2 Corsairs), a 3rd motherboard and a bunch of pumps gave up well before them. But it was an awesome ride!
The simulator was a high performance 4 axis device that could execute 3 axes in one second, with 4th (1st axis = 12') in 3 seconds. It could perform Richard Petty Rollover club quals. Bring your own helmet, and injury waiver. What a blast!
That is really sad that you have a really nice solar system but cannot run the power in an emergency situation.
Yes, it is sad and, most of all, stupid.
This is the first time we have heard about this and will probably be the reason why we pass on the wall.
Your house was probably build in 1960´s so, it consume around 100-200kWh per m2/year. So if your house is 100m2 that´s 20 000kWh per year. If tesla solar create 30kWh per day in f.e. 200 days in year. You cover 6000kWh per year. But this is way to optimistic scenario! From my point of view I see investing 22k in to new insulation of house as more reliable investment than solar panel.
For 22k, you can do a lot more than insulation, I would think.
@@AbominableHuman There in California. So probably $5,000 and 6 months just to get the permits.
But investing $22,000 in insulation and energy efficiency isnt sexy.
@@p331083, depends how long he intends to stay, how much he will shave off his bill, etc. It could be sexy. It could also be included in a home value estimation if he were to sell. Gotta think long-term.
@@amunderdog Who gets permits for stuff that can't be observed by satellite? ;)
Outdoor electrical panels are so bizarre.
Is that a California thing? I've never seen a house with it like that ever... Is that a house that originally had no electrical power?
@@dh66 no, it's pretty standard in most states
It's an old house, what you were looking at was the meter/load center recessed in about 4" of stucco. I wouldn't like to replace it but it's something that would have to be done eventually. Its good to have a disconnect on the outside for the fire department but I recommend locking them. Fire department has bolt cutter's
You'll generally see them in places without a lot of rain or snow
Tesla installed all of its components inside of my garage.
Very cool. I would recommend installing electric heated floors for renewably powered warmth in the winter time. Also have you beefed up your attic insulation? I remember my attic only had R15 up there...now it is R75.
Did the solar panel array shade your roof enough your air conditioning cost was reduced?
I’ve done solar for over 15 years. On a south facing roof we’ve seen temps dip over 5 degrees but typical is more like two
If you live in a newer home, your roof insulation is probably already good enough which it won't make a diff. In a older house, you may see a 3-5 degrees diff.
Kudos to Paul for this. Early adopters perform a critical service. BUT...if you're looking for a cheap way to use PV to cut your elec. bill, you can try this, depending on the size of yr house, location, etc;
Get 4 to 6 Universal 4D Batteries
Get a voltage controller/ batt. charger
Get 400-600 W of PV panels, keep them clean, in the sun
Get cheap 100-200W inverter (if you want A/C out of the batteries)
connect together
install DC LED lighting system and put it all on the batteries (at correct voltage). this is the only labor intensive part.
Lo voltage DC - no change to A/C circuits, no electrician required.
Good points. I think going with a Tesla Powerwall isn't ideal for someone in California who doesn't experience regular power outages. That money would be better off to invest in more panels.
Nothing beats a fuel powered generator for backup purposes should you lose power. IMO it is a waste of money to invest in batteries unless you are not connected to the power grid.
@@Bonzi_Buddy Technically.. *batteries* beat a fuel powered generator for backup purposes :P
Kinda. Mine (I have battery backed up solar panels) switch instantly the moment the grid goes out - so fast that computers don't turn off, and maybe. the lights flicker. Power comes back on again in 5 minutes? ( this happens all the time ) it switches back.. And quite the contrary. I'm on the east coast and my power (used to) go in and out.. up and down alot. It's worth its weight in gold if you're a 'work-from-home' type. :P
@@wibblywotsits You are wrong on many levels. Batteries run out and then you're done. Generators can be refueled. Lose your power for more than a few hours? Good luck!
If you have some kind of battery system to serve as a kind of UPS for the home before flipping that generator, fine. But batteries are costly and inefficient to rely on. I'd sink every extra dollar from a battery system into extra panels if I was hooked to the grid. It is the smart decision.
If you have a shitty power company and lose power often I guess the batteries would make sense but that's pretty pathetic picking up their incompetent slack.
I'd still just UPS on particular devices that I don't want to lose power on.
@@Bonzi_Buddy >You are wrong on many levels. Batteries run out and then you're done. Generators can be refueled. Lose your power for more than a few hours? Good luck!
You missed the part where I said that I sized my batteries such that they give me a day and a half's 'regular usage'. That covers the whole house for a day of lights, computers, heating and so on (minus power hungry devices like stoves and washing machine / dryer). My panels are maxed out - I literally could not buy any more (and still get a credit) else they start marking me as 'not residential' and 'power provider' - so.. yeah, I stuck as much as I could into panels and then ALSO bolted on the battery backup.
And while it's true that you can put fuel in a generator, I'm happy with the way mine works - like I said, it's seamless and even on a cloudy day, there's enough panels to recharge the batteries during daytime to cover the night-time power needs.
@@wibblywotsits You can cross your fingers you generated enough energy to power the central air after the 5th day of an outage or get on people for reducing electrical use as that meter runs low. I won't have to do that with a generator.
Off grid, I'll take that battery backup. On grid, nope. If your power rarely goes out it is wasteful, if it goes out too often then your power company sucks.
Just spend the money and produce twice the juice rather than piss away batteries in your home for some silly bragging rights.
At the end of the year, I'm pretty sure financially the guy with twice the panels will come out better than you.
Spending 50KWH in 24 hrs is definitley a HUGE amount of electricity. Normal european family with fridge, few laptops and electric water heater will usually spend MUCH less. Please do not create your opinion on FV powered homes just based on this video.
@Jo In 120 kWh / 24 h == 5 kW average power draw throughout the day and night... You'd find something like that easily if it's in your house! Like an electric water heater with all of the hot water running *somewhere* all the time, a few high pressure sodium street lights, or an oven or an electric range going full bore 24/7. Has a neighbour tapped into your wires to power their weed growing operation?
My family of four ( two adults, two teens) are a heavy electricity user, and we use maybe 9kWh a day. I don't have an electric vehicle to charge up, that would add another 5kWh.
I'd suggest you get an clamp meter monitoring thing that will independently measure your electricity use. you might need more than one depending on how many phases you have.
It is all relative. I own a 5,550+ sq/ft home and we have 3 large A/C compressors, 2 pool motors, pool heater/ outdoor lights and blow on average 40-55 KWH per day in Massachusetts. It is very easy to do in a house this size.
@Jo In - That's a shame that your life will be cut short for complaining about your power costs. Where I live we can call the newspapers and still die from natural causes.
We have electric cooking, fridge, freezer, dehumidifier running in the winter, pump for solar water panels, pump for heating, a pc and lights, average daily consumption for the last 7 years 9.1kwh. During the summer if we are away for 2 weeks the daily usage is around 4.5kwh.
Zombie mode would be amazing. I got two Powerwalls for my music studio as I was always having power outages in my area. So far they saved me from one 4 hour outage. It's also amazing that they can recharge themselves with solar and send power at the same time. The technicians have been amazing, they really take a lot of pride in their work. Super happy so far.
SUN JUICE!
I’d have a fit and dummy spit if my house used that much energy every day. First thing you should have done is looked at how to save wastage
Seriously !! You should put an on demand water heater on top of that. Go with a Rheem. Stay away from Eco Smart. It helped a lot with my power use. Cutting my water heating costs by 60+ %.
He should also use Wind Power.
@momentinpassing no I'm not trolling, I have seem videos of people installing Wind Turbines to get free electricity from the wind.
Gaming History Source A well insulated 180 litre tank loses only about 1.5 to 2 kWh/24hours. Even if you reduced this by half by using on demand heat, you would only save 1 kWh / 24 hours, hardly worth the extra investment. Plus, with stored hot water you can always heat with excess solar or off peak rate electricity. I'd be going down completely the opposite route- installing a much bigger hot water cylinder and pumping as much solar into it as I could.
@@GamerForLife514 TANSTAAFL
Electric water heaters are not economical. Gas water heaters - common in CA - are much more so.
Thus, on-demand being better than tankless argument first requires knowledge of that fuel in involved.
And, on-demand water heaters would usually require and even larger panel upgrade than he had done here or larger gas lines if gas powered. That can easily add $2,000 - $4,000 to the initial costs.
I'm a new subscriber, just wanted to say that your overview of the timeline on your Tesla project is nothing short of excellent!
You must be absolutely meticulous with your documentation.
Your presentation and production values are exceptional.
Great work by you and your team.
Best wishes from the Philippines!
I may have missed it but - People posting about solar figures REALLY NEED to include there Commercial KWH cost. Saving $169/month means nothing to anyone except those paying the exact same price commercially.
It is nice the actual cost was shown
-- Taxpayers (by environmentalist laws) pay 5-Years of power consumption of anyone who installs this system setup.
-- Poster did mention being in Southern California which concludes;
Without DIRECT "subsidizing" the system takes 16-Years to get investment money back. Now; Here's the key --> Southern California (CA = $0.20/kwh ave). California has the 5th HIGHEST per KWH costs commercially than ALL other intercontinental states (Only out done by RI,MA,CN,NH) which coincidentally is entirely reflective of "green energy" policy already in place that FORCES the commercial power to cater to "subsidized" green energy.
Tom Joe. 🤔🤔🤔 = 🌞🌞🌞 🌞🌞 ❌ 🕙🕣🕗🕑 = 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑
Douche bag
Damn, 6 months went by really fast
Same thing I'm saying, it barely felt like two months since I watched the last of his Powerwall videos.
This isn't off grid and California has net metering, what is the battery for?
@@johnlaw4309 - So after you've saved $5000 by not paying the higher evening rate, the rest is all savings. That's the worst idea I've heard of so far this year.
Alternate view from Brisbane: got a Powerwall installed with 6.6kw solar/5kw inverter mid August last year. Just got my first full quarter bill utilising the system. My bill for this period last year was $350, and I estimated that my bill this quarter would have been closer to $400, including pay-on-time discount. My bill this quarter was $200 in CREDIT. Saved at least $550 for the quarter. Assuming that the the cost of electricity stays the same (which it will not), and my solar feed-in tariff (20c/kw) stays the same, my ROI for the WHOLE system from a purely financial point is just over 9 years, within the warranty of the battery. Install price was just under $19,000.
We've not drawn from the grid since we got it installed. My wife is home with my daughter majority of days. We're smart with our appliance use and with our air con. Our daily usage is typically 12-18KWh. The battery has only dropped below 30% capacity a handful of times, never completely empty, typically overnight it drops to 50%, so assuming the degradation follows the expected graph, it won't affect our average usage at the end of its warranty.
Perhaps it's different in Australia. Or at least different in Brisbane. But I don't think the situation is as economically awful as it is made out for EVERY lifestyle and use case.
Why is the solar a bolt on unit? I thought Tesla was doing solar shingles now that look like a normal roof.
They do both so you can retrofit your roof or if your roof needs replacing anyways you can do the shingles. it's supposed to be rentable solar
Question how much did it raise the value of the house. If you sell tomorrow would you lose anything.
i actually work for a local residential solar installer in my area and as far as im aware, it most definitely would. The one thing i can say though is alot of the solar installs we do are alot bigger than the installation on this house and when you scale up the number of panels for a bigger roof, the better the end result will be.
Actually it makes the house almost impossible to sell, because of the solar contract. No one wants to assume that liability. No one. Ask any realtor, not solar installer.
The last house I sold had a SolarCity lease and I had no issues finding someone to assume the lease. House sold in just over a week and with about half-dozen potential buyers negotiating. None of them had an issue with the solar lease. The solar system I installed on my next house was a purchase, though it is financed instead of an outright purchase. A lease definitely won't add any value to the home (though I agree that it could make it more difficult to sell even if I didn't have any trouble), but a purchased system will definitely add some value, even if it's not dollar-for-dollar.
@@JustinAZ lol eastern washington eh
@@JustinAZ the house i sold yesterday sold for 10 million dollars and was 7 square feet, oh and 100 people were in line with contracts submitted. See how easy it is to make shit up?
One intangible cost is the increased value of your home. You could easily see a 10k-20k increase in asking price of your home with this feature.
If you sell it a week after install maybe. Try selling it 8-10 years later when the battery is out of warranty, the panels are faded and output is 60-80% MAX of what it used to get, your 20 year shingles are likely on the back end of shitting out on you or god forbid you have a leak and the homeowner has to pay for a new roof, UNDER SOLAR lol. Keep telling yourself that tho. I'm sure you'll be the one that makes crazy money, I have faith in you....
Morgan ma man, as an owner of a solar system....
It never works, you have to get the right type of buyer first, not everyone wants to see a solar system in their roofs, especially in the high mid to high end market, then, even if you meet the right buyer, like the other post said, unless your are selling your house within the first 1-5 years, the thing becomes a liability.
The only reason it makes, any sort of sense at all to install a solar system is if you are going to stay put for at least 10 years, and only because of all the TAX incentives, some states like MA, where I am, also have incentives on top of the federal ones, so in the end we had half of our system paid off.
Good. Thank you
That would be a loss on the 30k investment
We used a company call O3Home Solar here in Texas. I have a "live above business" totalling about 6k sqft. Our system produces 112% of our usage on average. This was/is the aggreement we made with the company. We took about 3 months total from inquiry to installation. We get a credit on our power bill every month although is fading here in the deep summer heat. Another couple of great things about O3Home Solar is no out of pocket costs to start, and the installation took exactly one day. They even showed up exactly on time after a two hour drive to get to us in the boonies. I'm a big Tesla fan, but I don't know...O3 did a great job for less money.
Maybe try investing in a better AC.. your sounds like a nightmare. Its a money pit.
his electrical use pattern is totally a worst case scenario for any form of electric generation, not just solar. lifestyle changes are required in addition to switching fuel source.
Biking With Panda Like he needs to shave his head, wear a robe and take a vow of silence?
Vagabond .. It seems to me like they forgot to install any form of insulation in his house. Considering the footprint, 50 KWH in one day is ridiculous. I’m wondering if he tries to keep it at refrigerator temps in the summer. Damn ... Since I bought my house, the hottest summer month (31 days according to the bill) only peaked at 720 KWH running the AC full time. His house was built in the 60’s. Insulation or a remodel would have probably been the better option.
Well he's in Southern California (I believe Diamond Bar is SE of Los Angeles) which means he's not getting ocean breeze to help avoid large variances between high & low in a day. High's in upper 80's (30+C) as average high July, Aug, Sept, lower to mid 80's (27+C) June, Oct. Compared to Sweden with the high temp in July just clearing 71 (22C), June, August (20-21C) in the high 60's. May, Sept 15-16C) Finally their variance between average high and low temperatures is 24F-30F different compared with Sweden variance of 7-17F between average high and average low. He's just in an area with extreme heat and wide variations between average high and low in a day.
John Doe how is this a scam you stupid dumb fuck
50KWh per day.. that's a lot
I'm just outside Dallas Texas. I've used as much as 170 KWh in a day. I drive a Tesla that alone will drink 40 or 50 kwh when it does a significant charge (and some days as much as 70kwh).
Murricans love to be total wasteful fucks.
@@Anvilshock if they pay for it why not.
@@IgnorantC They may live in their own country, but they don't live on their own planet. Also shows how they have their priorities month/day/year.
Just checked my usage for 2, midsummer, is 65 kw/h per week. New Zealand.
Did you calculate the decrease in panel efficiency over ten years?
or the increase in electricity cost over ten years?
Tee Cee Damn u got owned
@@Hetsu.. Ok
UK user here. There was a 1 month wait for battery install back in Sep 2018.
50 kWh daily usage! Wow. I averaged 10 kWh over the last 7 years (pre-solar).
October grid usage reduced by 66%, November by 25%, December 13%, January 33%, February 45%.
Was told Powerwall won't work during a power cut in case engineer is working on the power line. To prevent the wall inadvertently sending power to the grid.
Agree with you regarding getting info. from the app. - I just end up taking screenshots daily and putting the figures into a spreadsheet.
Payback also estimated around 11 years incl. government tariffs.
Asa home inspector those palm trees will eat up your shingle roof faster than anything else. Cut them back or you will have issues soon. 2:42
Did you take into account the % the panels lose in efficency each year?? Great video all around you saved in the long run on the free roofing by what 35%??
@@user-dr2pg8fk2i Impossible to be 85+ efficiency. Panels are around 30% efficient. Nowhere near 50%.
Let’s ask Snowdog shall we?
Hi Vannagirl. Surprised to see you on this channel. LOL
DigikidForever lol i know right, i have solar, Merry Christmas Digi :)
Your AC draws waaay to much power, very inefficient
A lot of things can cause this:
Old AC unit, or one needing repair
People inside like it colder
Poor insulation due to age or construction error
Older breaker box
Climate requirements. Humid or hot climates will run AC more
Luckily he lives in one of the sunniest places in the country so he can offset that with higher solar output
Or it's on way too much becuse of poor insulation
i’ve talked to some people who are interested in this system with the intent on trying to sell power on the ISO markets through the utility. All i can say is be prepared for large monthly scheduling fees at around 2500 a month if you want to go that route regardless of how much you sell. you will need a lot of land to cover with panels to be able to just offset your cost to participate on the market plus the cost of the system itself.
wow.. the amount of power you use in 1 day, I use in a week :p. If I use 7kwh in 1 day, it's a lot. That said, I do live alone..
For real...I live in an apartment with my girlfriend and we average about 7-10 kwh a day. I can't imagine using 1500kw's a month
@@derekwright5722 Is your heat based on electricity or gas. Is you hot water heated with gas? Do you cook with gas? Add those 3 things to your electric usage and see what your usage would be. Then move into a single family home with a lot of extra footage to heat and cool.
@@tiredofbs6835 well duh, electricity is the most expensive. I made sure most of that, especially the heat, was gas before I picked a place
Yep, "zombie mode" is a deal maker/breaker. If I can't use it off grid, Tesla is a no go.
LOL @ that California electric bill, highway robbery. Great review though, super informative
It really fucking is. I live in their stomping ground and those fuckers charge way more than other places in the us. Also they have a nuclear power plant which is leaking into the ocean, good job SoCal Edison
Interesting that it doesn't work if it doesn't have connection back to Tesla. I have talked with Tesla about getting that system, but larger and told them one of the things that made me most interested was post-hurricane/storms when we have no power or anything up to weeks at a time in some places. The Tesla rep said it is great for that. I wonder how that can be when it has no connection to their server. I need to look into that more. Thank you.
Living in California, and having LADWP (not Edison) as the source of grid powering, and time of use net metering (TOU), the PowerWall is probably the WORST investment that one can do around your home. It only makes sense to charge during low cost periods of the four months per year, and to use the stored power during high cost periods, generally between 1:00 and 5:00 PM. Doing very detailed calculations, which I have presented to Tesla, it will take over 40 YEARS to break-even on your investment. Tesla could not dispute my calculations. They agreed that the only economic benefit of the PowerWall is for those people who have common power outages, those who live in rural areas without access to the grid, and those who simply like to physical look or tech look of the PowerWall. But they agreed, that under normal circumstances it not a money saving investment in any way.
I appreciate that there was very little fluff in this video.
In my state you can just buy solar panels and install them....why is there so much red tape in cali?
Because California lol. It's crazy the red tape he had to go through. I installed a 400w system on my shed here in Canada and the hardest part was sourcing out the equipment within the country (to avoid expensive customs and shipping fees) because solar is not really popular here. Once I had all the parts I needed I proceeded with the install. No government or 3rd party was ever involved and it's a fully self sustained system. I may do the house eventually. I won't do grid tie though I don't think we have that option here anymore, those programs tend to come and go and arn't reliable because you're at the mercy of the government and they change stuff all the time like payout rates etc.
@@redsquirrelftw No huge difference in CA. The key is the grid tie. You go that route, you play by their rules. And, there are building codes. Fire Departments here have a say in panel installation because they want access to your roof for fire fighting purposes. The utilities have requirements that must be met to so as to ensure their own worker's safety.
Most people I know can barely change a light bulb. Design and installation of a solar electric system is way out of their league.
Here in Texas, I had to go through the utility company as well to get it installed and they demanded to have an external shut off panel installed as well. Even though inverter had a shut off they wanted a separate panel. And I had to get their permission to install it and they had to come out and inspect
Most people I know can barely change a light bulb. Try some new neanderthals? @@tharais
If you're tied in the grid you still have to go through your power company you know so very little
Very good review. Best "only one" I've seen on UA-cam. Thanks.
It's great you included quite specific details regarding costs and payback periods... interesting to note that they payback period is longer than the warranty on the battery. 11yrs is not a super great payback period for a 30k upfront investment... Your tax credit is a tax credit, shouldn't really be treated as a negative cost, which means payback on the full $30k is somewhere around 15yrs...
So you have 30k sitting in your pocket which you could do.anything with; is an investment in a solar system the best option? Probably not. Maybe if it's your forever home and you can monetize the install by making a UA-cam video about it 😂...
$30k is enough to start a business or invest in stocks, both of which could easily outperform a 10-15yr payback period...
his $30k investment yields avg $170 a month in electricity, about $2k a year. and that's IDEAL: single story home, roof facing southern sky, house in middle of the lot with low trees so no big roof shadows, SoCal latitude, AND costly grid power all combine to make his solar situation THE BEST and it STILL takes 15 years to JUST BREAK EVEN. Even THAT assumes all his equipment stays perfect and never fades/breaks over 15 years which is unrealistic. Also doesn't include time energy and attention etc. compare that to $30k in a normal low-cost index fund yielding say 8% a year? which by the way is TRULY hands off maintenance free? Doubles in 9 years, not 15. 7 YEARS SOONER WITH NO LABOR OR HOUSE ALTERATIONS!!! plus, you could sell at any time, get back your original $30k plus returns so far. Not true of course of old solar equipment. i think most just want to buy a nerd hobby they can tinker with and talk about when star trek gets boring. 16 YEARS TO TURN $30K IN DOLLARS INTO $32K IN ELECTRICITY? stupid bad plan.
You forget that the battery is the only part that has a warranty as 'short' as 10 years on it. The solar cells have 20 years and the entire system has an expected lifespan of 35 years. Even if he has shit luck and has to replace the battery after 11 years, that's going to be maybe $10k (or likely a lot less with advances in technology), which will pay for itself long before that warranty runs out.
Also, I'm quite fond of the thought of investing money you don't need right now (remember he paid straight, no financing) to reduce future upkeep cost. If his career were to take a nosedive or the economy crash and burn, he'll still have almost no power bills to deal with.
@Ziggi Mon so that has been the same argument for people who push solar for decades "its too expensive now but in a few years cost will be down and efficiency up". 20 - 30 years of that and still solar is an overpriced underachiever. Musk does one thing right, Marketing. His companies and products are garbage, or at the very best no better than his competitors, but his marketing wank is spot on.
@@Steamrick > warranty has to do with unexpected failure. Functionality decreases are very much expected. 35 years from now the panel will output pretty much nothing with a long history of upkeep. Youre not investing in anything, youre buying all the risk of a small-scale localized panel hub, without any of the pros and you have no expertise to upgrade it without paying market price for the guidance and installation. You are not going to outsmart multi-billion dollar energy companies by buying (their!) products and promises anytime soon.
Why not count the cost as 22k instead of 30?? Assuming you would have paid that tax, but didn't have to because of the credit, you must count the deduction.
Stocks long term make about 9% (1965 through 2012 figures, S&P 500). That's a bit better than the 7% equivalent that the Tesla investment is making for this guy. But stocks also have some risk.
Overall, it's actually a pretty close race between the Powerwall and the S&P.
Never leet them place a ladder in that fashion , they damage and break the ends of the shingles.
Seriously, do you know how much money you could save on everything if you just moved away from California? You have the ability that most people don't, you can live anywhere and still have your job Paul!
That's what people that don't live in California, say about California. If only I could leave my friends and family and a place I love so I can save some money and live in... Iowa. Ok. Lol.
His Wife still works locally so that won't work in Paul's case. Also California is a hub in the tech industry being local does give a tech reviewer advantage that others don't have.
A really good video. When I saw that was ~20min I thought I would fast forward but I never sit. Very informative!
Everything is going as I've foreseen it...(Emperor Palpatine)
50kWh, wuuut?
It cost us about 2€ of electricity a day so about 15kWh a day, and that´s with electric heating and all in winter, although no ac in summer.
2 Euros for 15kWh is super expensive. That same energy would cost me 1 dollar 60 cents.
Yeah it´s abut 0.12-14€/kWh depending on time of year. @@suserman7775
@@DanielLopez-up6os That's CHEAP dude don't complain. Here a single kWh cost 0.23 Euro Cent. So 15kWh = 3,45 Euro. In our country insulation is VERY popular and you can earn it back in some situations in 8 months. Insulation both helps keeping the house cool and warm with little energy input. Even the kWh prices are high, electric cars are popular here too. Because in that regard even 0,23 euro cent is still cheap. :)
I ain´t complaining about the price of electricity, but the amount paul´s household is using compared to what our household is using. @@HermanWillems
He lives in SoCal and you don't even use AC. There's no comparison here. AC is needed in his area like 8 months of the year.
Because you paid for the system up front (instead of financing) you need to factor in the opportunity cost of that money. Likely, you will never break even.
By that math you will never break even on any purchase. Financing assumes he will pay X in interest while making >X in interest in his investments. The best rate he could get would be 4% for financing, so he will have to make 6% or more each year AFTER taxes and fees. All he would be doing is paying more to financial institutions. They are the modern day Lords of the Manor. We are all their tenants thinking we own the stuff we have "borrowed" from them.
FWIW, remember this person would be paying for electricity anyway. Secondly, the rates for grid power will only go up and not down. This will be because of fuel charges (generation), delivery charges (transmission) and service charges. Fuel bcos natural gas will get more expensive, nuclear has been atrocious in SoCal, and with the fire hazards they are going to have to bury a lot of the transmission lines and those costs are going to be transferred to rate payers. Also with the need to make the grid "smarter" and more secure from hacking, money will be spent. One last thing, this gentleman is comparing the worst usage months (summer) of 2016 and 2017 with 2018. A more reliable number will be the full 12 month cycle. As you get to winter and spring, you will still produce decent power on the solar in SoCal (I live in San Diego) while your power needs drop due to no need for a/c. I changed all the lights in my house over a 2 yr period from 65W floodlights to 8.5W LEDs and I can actually see a reduction in my power usage. Next step to replace my ancient pool pump with a newer variable-speed pump. Remember most of these are changes you would be needing anyway, so every penny you save in the long run is a plus.
And, in 12 years he will be generating power for free. He spent close to $25k. At 5% interest that would have become $45k in 12 years. That is before taxes. Do you think he would miss the "extra" $20k while he is living and having so much fun with his gadgets? :-)
@@somedudeapfu What are you talking about?
If you are trying to recoup a 20k investment made in today's dollars you will need a lot more paid back in the future to break even. In 15 years that 20k could be worth 35k.
Do you think a second powerwall would do much to reduce your costs? I'm not sure how much your battery sits at 100%, but if it's frequently topped up (which from your video I assume it's not) then it might do pretty well in reducing your total grid draw to get another battery.