exactly but most importantly is : Dont get too stuck up on the timings as long as you like whats in the cup it can be 35 seconds or more you can still pull amazing shots. couple grams more or less also dont really hurt.
Rough example: darker roasts like shorter ratios and lighter roasts like longer ratios. It's really hard to properly extract light roasts with a 1:2 for example. Dark roasts may taste acrid and bitter at a 1:2 and would subsequently be better at a 1:1.5.
Another reason might be what I came across today. I have a cheaper machine (ecp3420) which typically puts out 9 bars of pressure and is around 92C or 93C, and a medium roast from Guatemala with the Timemore C3 Max set to 9 clicks. According to my grinder, it says 7 or 8 clicks is for espresso but can go down to 5 clicks without touching burrs. With 9 clicks it is somewhat coarse. I tried many times to get a balanced shot in a reasonable time (20-35 second range). Tried 1:1.5 as well as 1:2 and 1:2.5 but it tasted weak or harsh/bitter/sour. Finally tried 1:3 and it was perfect. If one grinds coarser, I would imagine increasing the yield would balance the decrease in extraction from bigger particles with comparatively less surface area. So more water passes through less surface area to increase extraction so it is no longer sour from under-extraction. TL;DR: Weaker, limited machines and non-espresso focuses grinders that may have to err on the courser side have to make up for it through greater yield. Sacrifices body due to dilution but gains balance/flavor.
@@homedepotindustrialfan936hey I literally have the same machine and grinder as you, expect mine is C3 ESP. But yes, so 1:3 is the best ratio for your medium-dark roast within 25-35s? How many grams coffee you grind for double shot?
@@summeryong I think it was 15.9g for the medium dark Guatemalan. I had an Italian roast at the same volume that was 13.9g and an Ethiopian light roast that was over 17g. Each bag is a little different, but I find filling up the basket with whole beans flush to the top is slightly over what I want, so I remove a bean or two and it’s really close after that.
Ok, but….. 36 grams out in yield barely gets you an ounce in a half volumetrically, and most coffee ‘recipes’ are based off a double shot (2 ounces) How do you square this with people’s expectations when making various espresso drinks.
Most people aren’t measuring the volume of the espresso going into their drink, so I’m not sure how their expectations will be effected. When a recipe calls for a double shot of espresso it just means a shot pulled using a double basket, so approximately 18g of coffee rather than 9g for a single shot.
thank you! I asked this same question on Reddit and everyone acted like I was insane. Basically, I have decided that whoever started the idea that a double shot was 2 ounces was wrong. They were considering the volume of liquid that comes out of the machine, not the volume that actually makes it into the cup.
@@adamwelch1866Reddit users are mor*ns to say the least. Their mind is set to cockiness and have savvy attitudes. Been there done that. Never again. They say redditors are smart, i beg to differ.
That’s just the way coffee is. Coffee is a complex thing. If you want to not bother with this then just drink cafatiere coffee or whatever. But this is how espresso is, there’s no way round it.
@@atticustay1 It has reached ridiculous levels of fussiness. All you need is a very good grinder, a decent coffee machine, a wee bit of know-how and good coffee will result every time.
@@EricMurphy410 You think I give a shit about how the geeks and nerds make coffee? Sorry to disappoint you then. Nothing to do with me. The big coffee companies will continue to churn out machine after machine knowing that the nerds will continue to buy. It’s more to do with making money not coffee.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #30 ДВА В ОДНОМ [Один человек]• Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nrXy15orKhY/mqdefault.jpg)
Straight to the point, clear explanation, thanks!
the time should be 20-30 for any dose and yield ?
exactly but most importantly is : Dont get too stuck up on the timings as long as you like whats in the cup it can be 35 seconds or more you can still pull amazing shots. couple grams more or less also dont really hurt.
most people stick to around 30secs
Can u please explain when different ratios are applicable?
Rough example: darker roasts like shorter ratios and lighter roasts like longer ratios. It's really hard to properly extract light roasts with a 1:2 for example. Dark roasts may taste acrid and bitter at a 1:2 and would subsequently be better at a 1:1.5.
Another reason might be what I came across today.
I have a cheaper machine (ecp3420) which typically puts out 9 bars of pressure and is around 92C or 93C, and a medium roast from Guatemala with the Timemore C3 Max set to 9 clicks. According to my grinder, it says 7 or 8 clicks is for espresso but can go down to 5 clicks without touching burrs. With 9 clicks it is somewhat coarse.
I tried many times to get a balanced shot in a reasonable time (20-35 second range). Tried 1:1.5 as well as 1:2 and 1:2.5 but it tasted weak or harsh/bitter/sour. Finally tried 1:3 and it was perfect.
If one grinds coarser, I would imagine increasing the yield would balance the decrease in extraction from bigger particles with comparatively less surface area. So more water passes through less surface area to increase extraction so it is no longer sour from under-extraction.
TL;DR: Weaker, limited machines and non-espresso focuses grinders that may have to err on the courser side have to make up for it through greater yield. Sacrifices body due to dilution but gains balance/flavor.
@@homedepotindustrialfan936hey I literally have the same machine and grinder as you, expect mine is C3 ESP. But yes, so 1:3 is the best ratio for your medium-dark roast within 25-35s? How many grams coffee you grind for double shot?
@@summeryong I think it was 15.9g for the medium dark Guatemalan.
I had an Italian roast at the same volume that was 13.9g and an Ethiopian light roast that was over 17g.
Each bag is a little different, but I find filling up the basket with whole beans flush to the top is slightly over what I want, so I remove a bean or two and it’s really close after that.
Ok, but….. 36 grams out in yield barely gets you an ounce in a half volumetrically, and most coffee ‘recipes’ are based off a double shot (2 ounces) How do you square this with people’s expectations when making various espresso drinks.
Most people aren’t measuring the volume of the espresso going into their drink, so I’m not sure how their expectations will be effected. When a recipe calls for a double shot of espresso it just means a shot pulled using a double basket, so approximately 18g of coffee rather than 9g for a single shot.
thank you! I asked this same question on Reddit and everyone acted like I was insane. Basically, I have decided that whoever started the idea that a double shot was 2 ounces was wrong. They were considering the volume of liquid that comes out of the machine, not the volume that actually makes it into the cup.
@@adamwelch1866Reddit users are mor*ns to say the least. Their mind is set to cockiness and have savvy attitudes. Been there done that. Never again. They say redditors are smart, i beg to differ.
18 grams of coffee is a double shot that's how it is
I just want to enjoy coffee without going through all this stuff. Who started all this rigmarole anyway? It’s nuts.
Get stuck old man, its just a simple theory
That’s just the way coffee is. Coffee is a complex thing. If you want to not bother with this then just drink cafatiere coffee or whatever. But this is how espresso is, there’s no way round it.
@@atticustay1 It has reached ridiculous levels of fussiness. All you need is a very good grinder, a decent coffee machine, a wee bit of know-how and good coffee will result every time.
@@JackJonnerI think the real question is, why do you give a sh*t about how others take make THEIR coffee?
@@EricMurphy410 You think I give a shit about how the geeks and nerds make coffee? Sorry to disappoint you then. Nothing to do with me. The big coffee companies will continue to churn out machine after machine knowing that the nerds will continue to buy. It’s more to do with making money not coffee.