Police came a seized a old guys firearms as a neighbour had said he was abusing his wife, 5 officers turned up and bundled his firearms together and took them away, he went to court and the police had got to his witness so she backed down, he won his case at a total cost of £10.500 they had dry fired his original lapage pistol and damaged it and also lost a shotgun and left a shotgun on his table as they scurried away. His house was ransacked , he recieved no apology and 2 weeks later they came back and seized them again he never go an explanation and could not afford to go back to court.. the officers that removed his firearms were just not firearms trained either.... just an excuse to snatch your firearms..
Excellent to hear it 'as it really is'. Well done. So many crazy Ill informed views on how people believe they can in some way influence a decision by the police by refusing to let them take away guns. ( One caveat to that should be the polite insistance, that only a qualified firearms officer should be given permission to access the firearms being removed from a property and all reasonable steps should be taken to ensure that the guns are allowed to be fully protected in slips, cases and containers ready for safe long term storage, and that a receipt alongside the serial number of every item removed, is handed over before those firearms leave the premises. At the end of the day, we are 'licenced' by the home office and police. We have no 'rights' as such in law, to hold a shotgun certificate or FAC. We all are aware of that at the point we apply, but it appears many folk conveniently ignore or forget that point once a licence is granted. It's the same as a driving licence. We reach a standard that is recognised whereby we can be licenced to drive and must comply with the rules and regs to the letter of the law. If found wanting, we can expect to be dealt with according to those laws. It is a sad fact that due to extreme negligence by certain constabularies, that a more heightened and sensitive approach is now being taken by police forces in relation to FAC/SGC holders, in cases where any question has arisen as to the suitability of a person to continue to hold those privileges. That will continue to lead to seizures of firearms and shotguns and I see no way that will ever reduce or go backwards. The world has changed forever in so many ways now, and the attitudes of an anti-gun public and a media ready to jump on the bandwagon to stir the pot, means police forces are actively reviewing with much more detail and scrutiny, every certificate holder in their patch. It just takes a stupid comment online (oh yes, they are checking your on line presence btw!) or that minor conflict and stressy comment to your neighbour or partner, to set the ball in motion. Once the call is made, it's a one way trip for us all. The issue that needs to be fought against, is the incredibly poor set of circumstances surrounding appeals, legal support, expert medical advice for the defendant and a timely way in which any case is dealt with. The police can and will remove a firearm from the equation really swiftly, but the process for trying to get them back is a real disaster and deeply flawed, giving the firearm owner little or no protection. That is what MUST change in order for the system to be legal and fair. At present, there is some evidence to show that in certain cases, the actions of the police fall into 'illegal and discriminatory' behaviour. However, to be able to challenge that will cost the gun owner in the region of many tens of thousands of pounds and along with it, those other aspects of the law where you will not be treated evenly, you will never see that money again. It's a rapidly changing world out there and as a group of hobbyists and professional firearms users, we are always two steps behind, and on the wrong foot. Make no mistake, the anti-gun lobby is powerful and a great rent-a-mob when it comes to election campaigning and vote winning.....be sensible folks. 😊
In the UK you can only hold a FAC, it's a certificate not a licence, there's a world of difference. Not handing them in if and when requested you're just asking for a world of grief...
My dad’s friend never had a gun licence but like to collect antique guns that were decommissioned. But had a problematic neighbour, complaining about everything. The police came round without a warrant, gained entry by his family. They took his gun collection and other legal antique swords knives, he spent a fortune going to court getting them back. Not all was returned, some disappeared even though the judge awarded him. This was away back in the 1980’s when life was more relaxed then
Under what power? S19 pace only grants power to seize for evidence of am offence. If there's no crime, and the weapons are legal to own without a certificate. They have no power.
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 They must have reasonable grounds to suspect an offence. Antique firearms owned under the s58 exemption are not deactivated firearms. They are fully functional but are of obsolete calibre. No certificate required. An officer can not simply seize something 'just to check'. He must have some form of grounds to suspect that it needs checking, which would be the suspected offence. But what suspicion do they have? There must be grounds. Simple possession is not grounds for suspicion. The cart may not come before the horse. S48 specifically relates to production of certificates to which * sections 1 &2 weapons apply *. Sections 1&2 do not apply to antique s58 firearms. Therefore there is no power to seize them unless they suspect it has been modified or brought into s1/2 form. For which they would have to produce some form of reasonable grounds. If they suspected this, they should then also be arresting the individual on suspicion of possession of s1/2 weapons without a certificate or permit. You can't have one without the other.
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 yes, as I said, they must have reasonable grounds to suspect. S2 PACE requires a constable to articulate their grounds for suspicion before a search may take place. If arrested, one of the 5 things the police must tell you is their grounds for arrest. There must be a rationale, and it must be explained. In the case of grounds for arrest, it must be as soon as practicable. Police are civilians. They have some extra powers. They can not simply do as they please without grounds to do so. In the case of s48, the burden is even higher and is set at a belief. (Suspicion is normally held to be above 20% certainty, belief 80% certainty) Production of certificates. (1)A constable may demand, from any person whom he believes to be in possession of a firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of this Act applies, or of a shot gun, the production of his firearm certificate or, as the case may be, his shot gun certificate. F4(1A). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (2)If a person upon whom a demand is made under this section fails to produce the certificate F5... or to permit the constable to read it, or to show that he is entitled by virtue of this Act to have the firearm, ammunition or shot gun in his possession without holding a certificate, the constable may seize and detain the firearm, ammunition or shot gun and may require the person to declare to him immediately his name and address. (3)If under this section a person is required to declare to a consta ble his name and address, it is an offence for him to refuse to declare it or to fail to give his true name and address
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 Production of certificates. (1)A constable may demand, from any person whom he believes to be in possession of a firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of this Act applies, or of a shot gun, the production of his firearm certificate or, as the case may be, his shot gun certificate. F4(1A). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (2)If a person upon whom a demand is made under this section fails to produce the certificate F5... or to permit the constable to read it, or to show that he is entitled by virtue of this Act to have the firearm, ammunition or shot gun in his possession without holding a certificate, the constable may seize and detain the firearm, ammunition or shot gun and may require the person to declare to him immediately his name and address. (3)If under this section a person is required to declare to a consta ble his name and address, it is an offence for him to refuse to declare it or to fail to give his true name and address
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 The police are merely civilians just like any other random stranger. They have some additional powers. Those powers require certain thresholds of suspicion or belief to be met before they can be exercised. Grounds for arrests and searches under s1 pace 84/s23 moda '71 must be provided either before the commencement of the search (s2 Pace 84) or in the case of arrest, immediately/as soon as practicable. Read through the above powers. A constable must BELIEVE (A much higher threshold than suspect 80% vs 20% certainty) that s1 applies to that firearm. If it has .270 rook stamped on it (obsolete calibre) what grounds does he have to BELIEVE it isn't and that s1 applies to it. How can you produce a certificate for a s58 rifle that doesn't require one? The firearms act entitles you to possess it. It's lawfully owned private property. To seize it, grounds are required to believe otherwise, or no power can be exercised.
I’m so sad to see my neighbors be so disarmed. So with criminals you beg? You run? I don’t understand not having a fundamental right to defend yourself w a firearm 1000s and 1000s of years of common sense it’s all gone . 🌍 For what? Feelings? A sense of security? 😢 but criminals and immigrants are good?
Yeah they took our guns but criminals still have them. There is shooting every day in the uk gang on gang violence but they just don’t put it in the media.
I’d love to see you do a video on the current “immigration “ and cultural changes in the UK and greater Europe Especially as it relates to crime/ housing/ and cultural loss.. Not to mention work /jobs
I am currently working on exactly that. I have some interesting insights on it as I travel alot. The opinions of Arabs and Pakistanis in their home countries was somewhat eye opening for me. In effect they couldnt believe we were so willing to take the rubbish they didn't want!
As an American in a free state who owns firearms - I feel horrible for you guys. HOWEVER I'm jealous you guys can just get suppressors - here, they're highly restricted for no good reason.
Best advice here is the common sense approach, be a model citizen at all times, avoid disputes and getting drunk etc, not worth the risk. Also be considerate when out shooting, be aware if where your shooting or walking with a rifle over the shoulder is going to upset anyone and try to avoid that potential. Be civil if the police come knocking but hopefully they'll have no reason ever to do so.
It makes no difference, even if someone tells lies as many wives and girlfriends do in the heat of an argument, that's your guns gone. I know a guy that has just had he's taken of him. She later told the police she over reacted. It made no difference and he has now been told he can re apply in a couple of years
@@geoffankrett7012 I know no one's immune from it happening. But I think trying to avoid the heat of the moment becoming too heated is definitely worth trying. I know it's bloody tough sometimes but in these cases, you have to wonder, if the certificate holder had tried to bring the heated argument with the wife down a notch a bit sooner would they still have they're guns? I know no two women are the same but it must take a fair bit of abuse being thrown to worry them enough to call the police over it. Anyway "keep calm and keep on shooting"👍
@@stephenoshea1166 What you are saying is how I behaved.. But it only takes someone with a grudge against people who enjoy shooting to say something and your firearms are gone. I was one of over 200 men in Manchester alone to have them taken off me. I did nothing wrong but the shite they come up with would make you sick. I phoned the police five times because a woman was being attacked and screaming in the school grounds facing where I lived. It was after midnight. When the police finally turned up twenty minutes later and looked over the school gate then drove off. She had run away and so did the man. I lived a 100 yards away from the police station and couldn't understand why they weren't sending a police man right away. This was used in the evidence to take my licence off me because I was annoyed with the call handler for not getting the police to attend quicker. All I said each time I phoned was I'm extremely concerned for the woman screaming and could they please hurry up. So take this as a lesson, if you hear or see anybody being attacked, walk away unless you want to lose your licence.
I have a relation works on shoots. He said got to be a saint even down to driving no speeding. Wife don't know were keys are for cabinet. Sad that most people don't act like they willing to loss something. Interesting video TGG
Interesting point about requesting removal to an RFD. If they'd turned up to remove your weapons, would they even entertain that option? It'd also be interesting to see how well (or badly) they are stored/handled once they'd been removed from your safe.
I have heard of several cases where they did entertain the option. This was where a divorce was involved or queries about medical records. Obviously in more serious cases it likely would not be entertained. There are many reports of rusty or damaged firearms being returned.
I do find it odd that a certificate holder who has been investigated, vetted ect. by police, who has signed declarations, had a character assessment and been medically assessed can have his or her privilege taken away "potentially" by anyone who simply has a dislike of that person and needs only to make an allegation with no proof required. Is no vetting of the accuser required to check if they are a troublemaker, repeat false accuser or potentially hold a grudge (ex wife example)?
Always being polite and friendly with the police, but I would think getting your kit into your local friendly RFD's storage would be preferable. When the ex-wife and i separated the first thing I did was to get everything out of my hands, as reccommended by the solicitor, then I informed the police of the situation myself who immediately suggested it would be wise to get them to a RFD and thus were happy to learn i already had. I suppose the adcantage is, if worse came to worst and your certificates were revoked with little chance of reinstatement, you could dispose of your property and at least realise the monetary value immediately, (not to mention the question of the police perhaps not taking the same level of care with your equipment that you might yourself)
I have not watched all the video yet but wanted to ask this while I thought about it! So maybe you answer this? This might be a silly question....but. I'm just putting in for my SGC. Under the rules of owning a shotgun. I am not allowed to let anyone, not even let the Mrs know where the keys are to my gun safe as she is not a SGC/authorised person. SO if a police officer attended and asked for my shotguns, and I just handed them over and the officer did NOT have a SGC. Would I be breaking the law and open to prosecution by allowing unlawful possession of MY shotguns to someone who is demanding them who is not a certificate holder? So if I had to give the guns to the non SGC holding police officer. What's the difference between that and just giving the Mrs my guns? If I gave the Mrs my guns they would revoke my licence straight away. And rightly so according to the laws and rules of being a SGC holder. Cheers guys!
This comes up a lot.. I have heard people say "they will only hand firearms to a firearms officer" and all kinds of other misinformation online. The Police are exempt via the following: 6.6 Section 54 of the 1968 Act is a general provision relating to all Crown servants and to persons who are members of a police force or civilian officers (police staff employed by, or under the direction and control of, a chief officer of police). The Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 gives the British Transport Police the same general provisions as specified within section 54 of the 1968 Act. 6.7 The effect of the section is that Crown servants, and police officers and staff who possess firearms and ammunition in their official capacity do not require firearm certificates or authority of the Secretary of State to possess prohibited weapons. In addition, Customs Officers do not require written authority to detain, seize or otherwise possess firearms they encounter in carrying out their official duties. This is because statute law does not bind the Crown or its servants unless specifically stated in the Act of Parliament.. It goes on.. Suffice to say a Police Officer definitely can take posession of your guns.
@@thatgearguy Thanks for the prompt reply! Logic says the if an officer out on patrol was to encounter an armed individual, then common sense says that during the confrontation/arrest of the bad guy then yes obviously they have no choice but to try to get control of the weapon. I'm probably wrong here. But once that is done do they not wait for firearms officers to turn up and make the weapon safe and take control of it? So that would create the argument that an on officer that has no formal weapons training should not handle our guns. Not knowing how to ensure they are unloaded or safe. As they could endanger themselves or the team around them. Or indeed us! (How embarrassing and inconvenient being shot by your own gun at your own home!) This is one of those great debates that can just on an on an on an on...... Take care guys.
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 I hear and understand what you are saying. It just seems like double standards if they want me to hand over guns to a untrained officer. How do you find out if the officer is qualified before you hand them over to them? Am I being stupid or is it a fair question?
Who in their right mind would answer that on here really and why would you tell anyone you have one if you did. not good gun safety to be fair 🤦🏻♂️ 👍🇬🇬
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 maybe so. but they may not know where they are kept or the keys.request And wait for a fire arms officer to arrive with appropriate identification. They maybe just police officers no disrespect but they may not be firearms trained or competent to handle a firearm there are many makes types and calibre 👍🇬🇬
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 they maybe fire arms trained but are they legally allowed to carry a weapon. And I said They may not know where the key is. the firearm officer may from when they do their safety checks. This is an endless conversation I’m not going into. you just do your thing Ay ✌️👍🇬🇬
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 again claiming. read what I wrote about the keys. Before claiming what you read saying something else trying to get a reaction like an argumentative troll 👍🇬🇬
Problem: if they come to the door no warrant and ask you to voluntary hand them over then there is no system, no protocol to get them back. Nobody to appeal to. However, if they have a warrant to take them, or demand to take them, then there IS an official process to dispute and get them back. Solution:??? It is bad isn't it? Because we would like to cooperate, but that screws us.
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 Why don't you explain then please? What is the name for the thing they need to take your guns without your permission? As opposed to handing over voluntarily? I don't know what else to call it. Are you here to help or to play ego games?
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 ok excellent so, you have to refused and then they will give you a notice that your license is revoked and take them and then you can use the appeals process which DOESN'T EXIST if you hand them over. Is that ok now?
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 but if you do hand them over then there is no way to appeal. So when you refuse you need to say that is the one and only grounds for you refusing. What else can you do?
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 I didn't say that handing them over means cancellation or certification, I said no procedure to get them back. Be honest. Good lad.
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 when I listened to BASC and spoke to their lawyer, and listened to the Field sports Channel and others they have said differently. That there is no process to get them back from a voluntary handover. Yes, it is ridiculous. But I'm not making it up. We will have to agree to disagree.
It sucks but it's just the way it is. Also I remember back in the early 90's when I helped out with the running on a club at Bisley, we had a substantial armoury holding hundreds of members guns under the club owners RFD, and we always told all our members if they were every going through a divorce (no matter how cordial it seemed), to lodge their guns in the club's armoury, because it was a regular occurrence of wives making stuff up during a divorce, and by lodging their guns at the club this pre-empted any FAC revocation. So like I said it's unfair, but it's just the way it is. :(
@@thatgearguy I only ask as a good friend of mine had his Guns taken into Police storage, they asked him to hand over his License, he refused at the time, nine months passed. He got a phone call from the FEO asking him to collect his Guns on the condition he provided a letter from his GP saying he was not mad, he has never officially been told why they were taken in the first place. Off the record it was due to a claim by a friend of an Ex Partner that they thought he was suicidal. They did not revoke his Ticket and left him with his Ammunition.
@@gavinwilln7571 they should have both been seized. I would suggest that the FEO or cop didn’t do it right. It’s no good seizing someone’s firearms and then leaving with a certificate with which they can buy another gun
Hi, I purposely did not promote one as it is a serious topic, I did not wish to appear 'sponsored". There are several UK companies offering robust legal cover.
Unfortunately that won’t save you if you are the victim of crime like being threatened or assaulted. They assume you might do something in revenge etc. So they sill take your guns.
To quote the BASC "While undertaking their role to protect the public, the police may seize airguns, firearms / shotguns on the grounds of ‘public safety’. Other than the above, there is no power under any Act of Parliament that allows the police to seize firearms “for the public safety. The only power that comes remotely close is seizure to prevent a breach of the peace under common law, but once the risk of that breach of the peace has passed, the guns have to be returned." That is, if the police don't decide to revoke your certificate in the cold light of day. Folks, it's even worse than that. I retired from the police last July. I was never in police licencing, or an AFO, but I have held a shotgun cert for the majority of my adult life, and held an FAC for a good many years as well. I also spent the last few years of my career in and around the Force Control Room. This is policy within Cambs police (and by extension Beds and Herts as well as their firearms licencing have been collaborated) that if the police are called to "an incident", and any party has an FAC or sec 2, it is incumbent of the control room inspector to ensure said certificate, and related firearms are seized and removed from the scene. Get this. ANY person involved in the incident. Not an offender, or even a suspect. ANY person. You could have been assaulted on the doorstep of your own home by a neighbour, and it is incumbent on the police to seize youe certificate(s) and firearms. You then have to negociate their return with the firearms licencing dept in the cold light of day.
Public safety can be applied to pretty much any situation regards a certificate holder.. He was speeding, that is irresponsible, an irresponsible person with a firearm.. Public safety.. Yes agreed I have also heard from people who have been in a situation through no fault of their own and had to negotiate their cert back.
There’s a difference between an FEO and a Police Officer, an FEO is normally a civilian who used to a cop. They do not have the same powers as a cop. They do not have a power of entry or power of arrest. If entry is refused, then Police will speak to a magistrate and get a warrant and come back
Thanks for another interesting vid. An idea for you… Did you know in the UK… you are more likely to be killed by a horse than a legally owned gun (yet no police stations are doing horse grabs 😂). You’re more likely to die by a cyclist riding into you than by a legally owned gun (Still no bike grabs). By falling off a ladder….(nope, no ladder grabs)….etc. Not to mention knife crimes. There’s far more random and obscure things that are technically much more dangerous than a legally owned firearm. My point is we need a video that puts the danger of legally owned uk firearms into some actual real perspective. Let it be comical. Make a vid like that and it’ll get shared around all over and it will start to show just how ludicrous this has become. You would soon hear people quoting the weird and strange stats at the gun clubs. Cheers
I did indeed as I once conducted research into this for an article I wrote. In fact playing squash was one of the activities that eclipsed both guns and knives in terms of danger.
@@thatgearguy ha! Playing squash! It’s crazy isn’t it. I feel like we need to pump some of that info out there to, like I say, get some actual perspective on the matter, could make for some entertaining viewing!
Police came a seized a old guys firearms as a neighbour had said he was abusing his wife, 5 officers turned up and bundled his firearms together and took them away, he went to court and the police had got to his witness so she backed down, he won his case at a total cost of £10.500 they had dry fired his original lapage pistol and damaged it and also lost a shotgun and left a shotgun on his table as they scurried away. His house was ransacked , he recieved no apology and 2 weeks later they came back and seized them again he never go an explanation and could not afford to go back to court.. the officers that removed his firearms were just not firearms trained either.... just an excuse to snatch your firearms..
You're right, but it would help. @ubiquitousubiquitous3843
Excellent to hear it 'as it really is'. Well done. So many crazy Ill informed views on how people believe they can in some way influence a decision by the police by refusing to let them take away guns. ( One caveat to that should be the polite insistance, that only a qualified firearms officer should be given permission to access the firearms being removed from a property and all reasonable steps should be taken to ensure that the guns are allowed to be fully protected in slips, cases and containers ready for safe long term storage, and that a receipt alongside the serial number of every item removed, is handed over before those firearms leave the premises. At the end of the day, we are 'licenced' by the home office and police. We have no 'rights' as such in law, to hold a shotgun certificate or FAC. We all are aware of that at the point we apply, but it appears many folk conveniently ignore or forget that point once a licence is granted. It's the same as a driving licence. We reach a standard that is recognised whereby we can be licenced to drive and must comply with the rules and regs to the letter of the law. If found wanting, we can expect to be dealt with according to those laws.
It is a sad fact that due to extreme negligence by certain constabularies, that a more heightened and sensitive approach is now being taken by police forces in relation to FAC/SGC holders, in cases where any question has arisen as to the suitability of a person to continue to hold those privileges. That will continue to lead to seizures of firearms and shotguns and I see no way that will ever reduce or go backwards. The world has changed forever in so many ways now, and the attitudes of an anti-gun public and a media ready to jump on the bandwagon to stir the pot, means police forces are actively reviewing with much more detail and scrutiny, every certificate holder in their patch. It just takes a stupid comment online (oh yes, they are checking your on line presence btw!) or that minor conflict and stressy comment to your neighbour or partner, to set the ball in motion. Once the call is made, it's a one way trip for us all.
The issue that needs to be fought against, is the incredibly poor set of circumstances surrounding appeals, legal support, expert medical advice for the defendant and a timely way in which any case is dealt with. The police can and will remove a firearm from the equation really swiftly, but the process for trying to get them back is a real disaster and deeply flawed, giving the firearm owner little or no protection. That is what MUST change in order for the system to be legal and fair. At present, there is some evidence to show that in certain cases, the actions of the police fall into 'illegal and discriminatory' behaviour. However, to be able to challenge that will cost the gun owner in the region of many tens of thousands of pounds and along with it, those other aspects of the law where you will not be treated evenly, you will never see that money again.
It's a rapidly changing world out there and as a group of hobbyists and professional firearms users, we are always two steps behind, and on the wrong foot. Make no mistake, the anti-gun lobby is powerful and a great rent-a-mob when it comes to election campaigning and vote winning.....be sensible folks. 😊
In the UK you can only hold a FAC, it's a certificate not a licence, there's a world of difference. Not handing them in if and when requested you're just asking for a world of grief...
My dad’s friend never had a gun licence but like to collect antique guns that were decommissioned. But had a problematic neighbour, complaining about everything. The police came round without a warrant, gained entry by his family. They took his gun collection and other legal antique swords knives, he spent a fortune going to court getting them back. Not all was returned, some disappeared even though the judge awarded him. This was away back in the 1980’s when life was more relaxed then
Under what power? S19 pace only grants power to seize for evidence of am offence. If there's no crime, and the weapons are legal to own without a certificate. They have no power.
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843
They must have reasonable grounds to suspect an offence. Antique firearms owned under the s58 exemption are not deactivated firearms. They are fully functional but are of obsolete calibre. No certificate required. An officer can not simply seize something 'just to check'. He must have some form of grounds to suspect that it needs checking, which would be the suspected offence. But what suspicion do they have? There must be grounds. Simple possession is not grounds for suspicion. The cart may not come before the horse. S48 specifically relates to production of certificates to which * sections 1 &2 weapons apply *. Sections 1&2 do not apply to antique s58 firearms. Therefore there is no power to seize them unless they suspect it has been modified or brought into s1/2 form. For which they would have to produce some form of reasonable grounds. If they suspected this, they should then also be arresting the individual on suspicion of possession of s1/2 weapons without a certificate or permit. You can't have one without the other.
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 yes, as I said, they must have reasonable grounds to suspect. S2 PACE requires a constable to articulate their grounds for suspicion before a search may take place.
If arrested, one of the 5 things the police must tell you is their grounds for arrest. There must be a rationale, and it must be explained. In the case of grounds for arrest, it must be as soon as practicable. Police are civilians. They have some extra powers. They can not simply do as they please without grounds to do so. In the case of s48, the burden is even higher and is set at a belief. (Suspicion is normally held to be above 20% certainty, belief 80% certainty)
Production of certificates.
(1)A constable may demand, from any person whom he believes to be in possession of a firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of this Act applies, or of a shot gun, the production of his firearm certificate or, as the case may be, his shot gun certificate.
F4(1A). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
(2)If a person upon whom a demand is made under this section fails to produce the certificate F5... or to permit the constable to read it, or to show that he is entitled by virtue of this Act to have the firearm, ammunition or shot gun in his possession without holding a certificate, the constable may seize and detain the firearm, ammunition or shot gun and may require the person to declare to him immediately his name and address.
(3)If under this section a person is required to declare to a consta ble his name and address, it is an offence for him to refuse to declare it or to fail to give his true name and address
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843
Production of certificates.
(1)A constable may demand, from any person whom he believes to be in possession of a firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of this Act applies, or of a shot gun, the production of his firearm certificate or, as the case may be, his shot gun certificate.
F4(1A). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
(2)If a person upon whom a demand is made under this section fails to produce the certificate F5... or to permit the constable to read it, or to show that he is entitled by virtue of this Act to have the firearm, ammunition or shot gun in his possession without holding a certificate, the constable may seize and detain the firearm, ammunition or shot gun and may require the person to declare to him immediately his name and address.
(3)If under this section a person is required to declare to a consta ble his name and address, it is an offence for him to refuse to declare it or to fail to give his true name and address
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 The police are merely civilians just like any other random stranger. They have some additional powers. Those powers require certain thresholds of suspicion or belief to be met before they can be exercised. Grounds for arrests and searches under s1 pace 84/s23 moda '71 must be provided either before the commencement of the search (s2 Pace 84) or in the case of arrest, immediately/as soon as practicable. Read through the above powers. A constable must BELIEVE (A much higher threshold than suspect 80% vs 20% certainty) that s1 applies to that firearm. If it has .270 rook stamped on it (obsolete calibre) what grounds does he have to BELIEVE it isn't and that s1 applies to it. How can you produce a certificate for a s58 rifle that doesn't require one? The firearms act entitles you to possess it. It's lawfully owned private property. To seize it, grounds are required to believe otherwise, or no power can be exercised.
I’m so sad to see my neighbors be so disarmed.
So with criminals you beg? You run? I don’t understand not having a fundamental right to defend yourself w a firearm
1000s and 1000s of years of common sense it’s all gone . 🌍
For what?
Feelings?
A sense of security? 😢 but criminals and immigrants are good?
Yeah they took our guns but criminals still have them. There is shooting every day in the uk gang on gang violence but they just don’t put it in the media.
We would honestly love to have you in the states. It’s sad to see how bad it has gotten in the UK.
I’d love to see you do a video on the current “immigration “ and cultural changes in the UK and greater Europe
Especially as it relates to crime/ housing/ and cultural loss..
Not to mention work /jobs
Never mind even the number of assaults happening in the UK and Ireland, France etc
I am currently working on exactly that. I have some interesting insights on it as I travel alot. The opinions of Arabs and Pakistanis in their home countries was somewhat eye opening for me. In effect they couldnt believe we were so willing to take the rubbish they didn't want!
What about the value of the guns seized? could 10 or 20k's worth? Don't you have a right to sell them?
Do the police destroy or sell them?
As an American in a free state who owns firearms - I feel horrible for you guys. HOWEVER I'm jealous you guys can just get suppressors - here, they're highly restricted for no good reason.
@@masterofshadows8904 Thanks for watching across the pond!
Great advice, l will look into getting such legal insurance.
Thanks for your report. You have clarified a couple of points.
Glad it was helpful!
Keep up the well informed information, good advice.
Best advice here is the common sense approach, be a model citizen at all times, avoid disputes and getting drunk etc, not worth the risk. Also be considerate when out shooting, be aware if where your shooting or walking with a rifle over the shoulder is going to upset anyone and try to avoid that potential. Be civil if the police come knocking but hopefully they'll have no reason ever to do so.
It makes no difference, even if someone tells lies as many wives and girlfriends do in the heat of an argument, that's your guns gone. I know a guy that has just had he's taken of him. She later told the police she over reacted. It made no difference and he has now been told he can re apply in a couple of years
@@geoffankrett7012 I know no one's immune from it happening. But I think trying to avoid the heat of the moment becoming too heated is definitely worth trying. I know it's bloody tough sometimes but in these cases, you have to wonder, if the certificate holder had tried to bring the heated argument with the wife down a notch a bit sooner would they still have they're guns?
I know no two women are the same but it must take a fair bit of abuse being thrown to worry them enough to call the police over it.
Anyway "keep calm and keep on shooting"👍
@@stephenoshea1166 What you are saying is how I behaved.. But it only takes someone with a grudge against people who enjoy shooting to say something and your firearms are gone. I was one of over 200 men in Manchester alone to have them taken off me. I did nothing wrong but the shite they come up with would make you sick. I phoned the police five times because a woman was being attacked and screaming in the school grounds facing where I lived. It was after midnight. When the police finally turned up twenty minutes later and looked over the school gate then drove off. She had run away and so did the man. I lived a 100 yards away from the police station and couldn't understand why they weren't sending a police man right away. This was used in the evidence to take my licence off me because I was annoyed with the call handler for not getting the police to attend quicker. All I said each time I phoned was I'm extremely concerned for the woman screaming and could they please hurry up. So take this as a lesson, if you hear or see anybody being attacked, walk away unless you want to lose your licence.
I have a relation works on shoots. He said got to be a saint even down to driving no speeding. Wife don't know were keys are for cabinet.
Sad that most people don't act like they willing to loss something. Interesting video TGG
Indeed. Even speeding tickets can be used as a reason to revoke a certificate.
Interesting point about requesting removal to an RFD. If they'd turned up to remove your weapons, would they even entertain that option?
It'd also be interesting to see how well (or badly) they are stored/handled once they'd been removed from your safe.
I have heard of several cases where they did entertain the option. This was where a divorce was involved or queries about medical records. Obviously in more serious cases it likely would not be entertained. There are many reports of rusty or damaged firearms being returned.
Only problem could be if it's after hours, you'd unlikely get an answer from the RFD.
I do find it odd that a certificate holder who has been investigated, vetted ect. by police, who has signed declarations, had a character assessment and been medically assessed can have his or her privilege taken away "potentially" by anyone who simply has a dislike of that person and needs only to make an allegation with no proof required.
Is no vetting of the accuser required to check if they are a troublemaker, repeat false accuser or potentially hold a grudge (ex wife example)?
It seems not. There is no way of proving what was said so they err on the side of caution.
Always being polite and friendly with the police, but I would think getting your kit into your local friendly RFD's storage would be preferable. When the ex-wife and i separated the first thing I did was to get everything out of my hands, as reccommended by the solicitor, then I informed the police of the situation myself who immediately suggested it would be wise to get them to a RFD and thus were happy to learn i already had.
I suppose the adcantage is, if worse came to worst and your certificates were revoked with little chance of reinstatement, you could dispose of your property and at least realise the monetary value immediately, (not to mention the question of the police perhaps not taking the same level of care with your equipment that you might yourself)
Well said.
haven't seen your other content but have subscribed on the basis you are sensible - thank you
Thank you! Glad to have you subscribed!
I have not watched all the video yet but wanted to ask this while I thought about it! So maybe you answer this?
This might be a silly question....but.
I'm just putting in for my SGC.
Under the rules of owning a shotgun.
I am not allowed to let anyone, not even let the Mrs know where the keys are to my gun safe as she is not a SGC/authorised person.
SO if a police officer attended and asked for my shotguns, and I just handed them over and the officer did NOT have a SGC.
Would I be breaking the law and open to prosecution by allowing unlawful possession of MY shotguns to someone who is demanding them who is not a certificate holder?
So if I had to give the guns to the non SGC holding police officer.
What's the difference between that and just giving the Mrs my guns?
If I gave the Mrs my guns they would revoke my licence straight away. And rightly so according to the laws and rules of being a SGC holder.
Cheers guys!
This comes up a lot.. I have heard people say "they will only hand firearms to a firearms officer" and all kinds of other misinformation online. The Police are exempt via the following:
6.6 Section 54 of the 1968 Act is a general provision relating to all Crown servants and to persons who are members of a police force or civilian officers (police staff employed by, or under the direction and control of, a chief officer of police). The Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 gives the British Transport Police the same general provisions as specified within section 54 of the 1968 Act.
6.7 The effect of the section is that Crown servants, and police officers and staff who possess firearms and ammunition in their official capacity do not require firearm certificates or authority of the Secretary of State to possess prohibited weapons. In addition, Customs Officers do not require written authority to detain, seize or otherwise possess firearms they encounter in carrying out their official duties. This is because statute law does not bind the Crown or its servants unless specifically stated in the Act of Parliament..
It goes on.. Suffice to say a Police Officer definitely can take posession of your guns.
@@thatgearguy Thanks for the prompt reply!
Logic says the if an officer out on patrol was to encounter an armed individual, then common sense says that during the confrontation/arrest of the bad guy then yes obviously they have no choice but to try to get control of the weapon.
I'm probably wrong here. But once that is done do they not wait for firearms officers to turn up and make the weapon safe and take control of it?
So that would create the argument that an on officer that has no formal weapons training should not handle our guns. Not knowing how to ensure they are unloaded or safe.
As they could endanger themselves or the team around them. Or indeed us! (How embarrassing and inconvenient being shot by your own gun at your own home!)
This is one of those great debates that can just on an on an on an on......
Take care guys.
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 I hear and understand what you are saying.
It just seems like double standards if they want me to hand over guns to a untrained officer.
How do you find out if the officer is qualified before you hand them over to them?
Am I being stupid or is it a fair question?
Well said ❤
Thank you for your video. A very sensible and reasoned discussion. It’s worth remembering we live in the UK not the USA.
Glad you enjoyed it
I would never hand a firearm over to just a police officer. Only a bona fide firearms officer👍🇬🇬
You don't hold a FAC...
Who in their right mind would answer that on here really and why would you tell anyone you have one if you did. not good gun safety to be fair 🤦🏻♂️ 👍🇬🇬
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 maybe so. but they may not know where they are kept or the keys.request And wait for a fire arms officer to arrive with appropriate identification. They maybe just police officers no disrespect but they may not be firearms trained or competent to handle a firearm there are many makes types and calibre 👍🇬🇬
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 they maybe fire arms trained but are they legally allowed to carry a weapon. And I said They may not know where the key is. the firearm officer may from when they do their safety checks. This is an endless conversation I’m not going into. you just do your thing Ay ✌️👍🇬🇬
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 again claiming. read what I wrote about the keys. Before claiming what you read saying something else trying to get a reaction like an argumentative troll 👍🇬🇬
Iv heard some horror stories... We can have them taken away if a family member gets in trouble with the law as they are deemed to have access.
Well put across.
Spot on.
Problem: if they come to the door no warrant and ask you to voluntary hand them over then there is no system, no protocol to get them back. Nobody to appeal to.
However, if they have a warrant to take them, or demand to take them, then there IS an official process to dispute and get them back.
Solution:??? It is bad isn't it? Because we would like to cooperate, but that screws us.
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843
Why don't you explain then please?
What is the name for the thing they need to take your guns without your permission? As opposed to handing over voluntarily?
I don't know what else to call it.
Are you here to help or to play ego games?
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 ok excellent so, you have to refused and then they will give you a notice that your license is revoked and take them and then you can use the appeals process which DOESN'T EXIST if you hand them over.
Is that ok now?
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 but if you do hand them over then there is no way to appeal.
So when you refuse you need to say that is the one and only grounds for you refusing.
What else can you do?
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 I didn't say that handing them over means cancellation or certification, I said no procedure to get them back.
Be honest. Good lad.
@ubiquitousubiquitous3843 when I listened to BASC and spoke to their lawyer, and listened to the Field sports Channel and others they have said differently. That there is no process to get them back from a voluntary handover.
Yes, it is ridiculous. But I'm not making it up.
We will have to agree to disagree.
It sucks but it's just the way it is.
Also I remember back in the early 90's when I helped out with the running on a club at Bisley, we had a substantial armoury holding hundreds of members guns under the club owners RFD, and we always told all our members if they were every going through a divorce (no matter how cordial it seemed), to lodge their guns in the club's armoury, because it was a regular occurrence of wives making stuff up during a divorce, and by lodging their guns at the club this pre-empted any FAC revocation. So like I said it's unfair, but it's just the way it is. :(
Are you entitled to be informed of the reason for the removal of your Guns, at the time they are taking them?
Good point. I do not know the answer to that. I have heard from many who had seizure or revocation and all were given a reason.
@@thatgearguy I only ask as a good friend of mine had his Guns taken into Police storage, they asked him to hand over his License, he refused at the time, nine months passed. He got a phone call from the FEO asking him to collect his Guns on the condition he provided a letter from his GP saying he was not mad, he has never officially been told why they were taken in the first place. Off the record it was due to a claim by a friend of an Ex Partner that they thought he was suicidal. They did not revoke his Ticket and left him with his Ammunition.
Firearms and certificates are always sized together.
@@paulhaden4021 Not so in this case.
@@gavinwilln7571 they should have both been seized. I would suggest that the FEO or cop didn’t do it right. It’s no good seizing someone’s firearms and then leaving with a certificate with which they can buy another gun
What insurance did you go with out of interest?
Hi, I purposely did not promote one as it is a serious topic, I did not wish to appear 'sponsored". There are several UK companies offering robust legal cover.
@@thatgearguy Fair enough buddy
Youre on the wrong side of the pond, friend 🇺🇸
I work in the defence sector all over the world as a Ballistician so I get to have lots of fun. But I may end up moving to Texas!
Good video thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
👍👍👍 Best thing to do Live a boring life and keep your nose clean 👍👍👍👍
Agreed although it doesnt have to be boring, just wholesome!
Yes, but it doesn't help with spurious allegations or errors unfortunately
Unfortunately that won’t save you if you are the victim of crime like being threatened or assaulted. They assume you might do something in revenge etc. So they sill take your guns.
To quote the BASC "While undertaking their role to protect the public, the police may seize airguns, firearms / shotguns on the grounds of ‘public safety’. Other than the above, there is no power under any Act of Parliament that allows the police to seize firearms “for the public safety.
The only power that comes remotely close is seizure to prevent a breach of the peace under common law, but once the risk of that breach of the peace has passed, the guns have to be returned."
That is, if the police don't decide to revoke your certificate in the cold light of day.
Folks, it's even worse than that.
I retired from the police last July. I was never in police licencing, or an AFO, but I have held a shotgun cert for the majority of my adult life, and held an FAC for a good many years as well.
I also spent the last few years of my career in and around the Force Control Room.
This is policy within Cambs police (and by extension Beds and Herts as well as their firearms licencing have been collaborated) that if the police are called to "an incident", and any party has an FAC or sec 2, it is incumbent of the control room inspector to ensure said certificate, and related firearms are seized and removed from the scene.
Get this. ANY person involved in the incident. Not an offender, or even a suspect. ANY person. You could have been assaulted on the doorstep of your own home by a neighbour, and it is incumbent on the police to seize youe certificate(s) and firearms. You then have to negociate their return with the firearms licencing dept in the cold light of day.
Public safety can be applied to pretty much any situation regards a certificate holder.. He was speeding, that is irresponsible, an irresponsible person with a firearm.. Public safety..
Yes agreed I have also heard from people who have been in a situation through no fault of their own and had to negotiate their cert back.
There’s a difference between an FEO and a Police Officer, an FEO is normally a civilian who used to a cop. They do not have the same powers as a cop. They do not have a power of entry or power of arrest. If entry is refused, then Police will speak to a magistrate and get a warrant and come back
If they've not got a warrant, they've not got a good reason.
Thanks for another interesting vid.
An idea for you…
Did you know in the UK…
you are more likely to be killed by a horse than a legally owned gun (yet no police stations are doing horse grabs 😂). You’re more likely to die by a cyclist riding into you than by a legally owned gun (Still no bike grabs). By falling off a ladder….(nope, no ladder grabs)….etc.
Not to mention knife crimes.
There’s far more random and obscure things that are technically much more dangerous than a legally owned firearm.
My point is we need a video that puts the danger of legally owned uk firearms into some actual real perspective. Let it be comical.
Make a vid like that and it’ll get shared around all over and it will start to show just how ludicrous this has become.
You would soon hear people quoting the weird and strange stats at the gun clubs.
Cheers
I did indeed as I once conducted research into this for an article I wrote. In fact playing squash was one of the activities that eclipsed both guns and knives in terms of danger.
@@thatgearguy ha! Playing squash! It’s crazy isn’t it. I feel like we need to pump some of that info out there to, like I say, get some actual perspective on the matter, could make for some entertaining viewing!
Insufficient evidence without a warrant
They do not need "evidence" to revoke a licence. This can be done on hearsay alone. Then its up to you to fight in court to get it back.
@@thatgearguy comeuppance is long overdue for the representatives of the corrupt British state.
When will you all realise that being granted an FAC is a privilege and strict conditions must be met.
@@thatgearguy There you go gain with your bs. There's no such thing as a 'Licence', its a 'certificate' and a meaningless piece of paper.
Subbed all come bk nd listen