Hello, Welcome to my channel. if you're new "hi" if you're returning (thank you) Now I hope you enjoy the breakdown @tobyfox5716 #deltarune #music #theory
Erm, you actually forgot about the scene where ralsei turns to face the camera and says "Also, Kris isn't the knight btw".. How will you address this...
@RedMistKali to be totally fair tho, doesn't it seem a little sus that ralsei felt the need to say that? Especially since he said it before we see Kris open a dark fountain. It's like he's trying to gaslight us in advance. I dunno man, almost sounds like more evidence for Kris Knight if you ask me! /s
11:48 Also notice how specific the words are around the Knight's appearance. The Knight didn't lock up the three other Card Kings, The Knight appeared, and _then_ the kings were locked away. "By the Knight's _will_ I will tear your hearts to pieces!" Not the Knight's command. The game takes intentional effort to never mention that the Knight told or showed the bosses anything. King and Queen also have pretty much opposite motives, the King wanting to kill all Lightners to liberate Darkners, the Queen wanting to make a perfect world to entertain Lightners and treating her Darkners poorly to get that. Seems weird that they'd get that if the Knight told them anything. This also matches Kris' behavior, they don't talk much, and spoke even less before we took control.
At this point I don’t even care for who’s the knight, I want to see ALL possible knights Aka I desperately want fangames or fanworks to go over like “Hey, what if Susie was the knight? Prob not in cannon but this isn’t cannon! Let’s explore that idea!”
I just have to say: It never mattered who the knight was. Everyone acts like it's some big mystery and sure it might be, but... If it's Kris, it opens up bigger and better questions about KRIS. What did they do to become the Knight? Did this have anything to do with gaining the red soul? Was this Gaster, stringing things up behind the scenes as the true mastermind, or was it really Kris' intention? Did Kris make the original dark world, or did someone else? How long of a time limit do they really have without the soul, and is it taken down by making a fountain? Do they have some sort of reason that they HAVE to do this...? In this hypothetical we can't even assume that other people can open dark fountains, or what Kris' motives are. Those are the more interesting questions to me. We can come up with all sorts of motives for anyone else. Maybe Gaster drove them insane, sure, or maybe they want Dark world friends, or maybe they think it's just fun or interesting, and like any of the other chess pieces, are unaware of what theyre doing. Kris is one of the few people we know to have a conscience (In the Snowgrave route Ralsei says that Kris looks like they saw something terrible because they looked horrified or smth) yet The Roaring is even worse than what they experience when we figure that out and Kris STILL opens a dark fountain that same day, afterwards. They seem to know what theyre doing, and yet... still can't help themselves. Kris is the most interesting knight candidate to me because it just opens up even more questions by answering ones that desperately need answering.
Fucking everyone's Watsonian answers to the knight, Doylist all the way. It's just BETTER if Kris is the knight, the story is just BETTER. All of the convoluted timelines and detective work are thin in comparison, none of it is genuinely strong enough to stop kris from being the knight.
@@basileusbasil4041 Papyrus has some surprising evidence on his part like personal connections to Gaster and the like... But Kris is just undoubtedly the Knight, like come on...
Honestly I'm shocked at how you were able to add criticism to so many anti-Kris Knight points! I wouldn't say i 100% believe that Kris is the knight for sure, but now I do think it's a good possibility that they are. Wonderful video, hope to see more content from you!
This might sound really stupid, but I don't think Kris opening a Fountain is evidence towards them being the Knight, especially after Queen says any Lightner can do it and ESPECIALLY after BERDLY out of all people almost opens one himself.
I honestly think Kris DOES want to tell Undyne about the Dark Worlds. In Chapter 2, when you talk to her about it, Kris specifically brings up the fact that they are dangerous because people could fall in, which isn't something that is mentioned in the prompt when you choose to tell her about the Dark Worlds, implying that this is what Kris actually wants to say.
I think there’s also more evidence to add to this. Kris seems to have more control in the light world(He’s directly ripped his soul out and has full control over save and load in the light world), yet he can still subvert our control in the dark world. If he really didn’t want to tell Undyne then he could have probably just removed the dialogue option… or said it in a less serious way. Him opening the dark fountain is likely to pull Undyne into it… which would make her believe in them and give Kris someone who’s way better at finding the Knight than he is.
I think that there are multiple Knights, likely two, with Kris being one. I think that the title of the knight being given to the person who creates a dark fountain.
Regarding the lab closet discussion. There is a theory that the knight somehow used a pacify spell in the light world before opening the fountain. It takes a very bald assumption that it's possible to use magic in the light world but apart from that this theory makes the most sense as it closes all of the plot holes. Why they didn't see the knight? Why were they siting (and sleeping) on the desk? Why they believed that it was a dream? Because they fell asleep. Also here is a crack theory because why not: Ralsei is the knight. He can use the pacify spell, he knows about the prophecy, he is like a dungeon master who pulls the strings to make events play out in the right way. He also isn't a darkner but something like a Gaster of some kind. That's why he can teleport between dark worlds and can appear in the light world.
Actually I think there’s quite a bit of evidence to show that magic is usable in the light world… it’s just not as common. The first piece of evidence is Kris’ save file. Kris has a save file before entering the dark world. It even has their name on the file, but when we enter the dark world the file name changes to our name. In chapter 2 Kris creates a new save file without entering a dark world as far as we know. There’s even a script to save in the light world with hacks… even if we save the file has Kris’ name. Which means save and load exists in the light world… we just have less control. The second piece of evidence is just the ability to create dark world. It’s literally just some sort of magic or supernatural ability. The third piece of evidence is Kris wanting to use magic. It’s possible the reason why Kris was so obsessed with magic is because they wanted to fit in with Asgore and Toriel. Just like how they wore the goat horns. The fourth piece of evidence is Noelle saying that she wished healing magic was real. She said that she wished a specific type of magic was real… not that she wished magic was real. The fifth piece of evidence is when Susie talked about the dark worlds. I don’t remember the exact line, but she said something like “in the dark world where there are axes, battles, and magic.” Magic is placed next to axes and battles… which are two very real things. It seems a bit out of place to lump them all together if one isn’t real… but not in the funny or obvious kind of out of place that Deltarune is known for.
Why did Kris let us see them open a portal? Simple. It plays into the theme of "Your choices do not matter." You close a fountain, they'll just open a new one and let you know you didn't change anything. Your choices do. not. matter.
I saw a lowkey kinda crazy theory a little while back that basically said that The Knight isn't a single person, but rather a title given to whoever made the dark fountain that the darkeners in said fountain inhabit, and that there's actually a different Knight for each chapter.
Great video, i also find extremely dumb that the best argument the anti-Kris is the Knight fans use is: "It would be too obvious" or "Toby wouldn't do that because it would be bad writing".
I disagree with the theory that the Grand Fountain has been there for a long time. Considering how Alphys sends Kris and Susie to get chalk, I think it's safe to assume that the supply closet is used semi-regularly, which means that someone would have found out if the Fountain in there was more than, like, a week old at most.
Wow, the whole movement after the heart ripped out becoming smooth and quicker is totally missed by kris knight haters. That alone was enough to solidify that kris is plausible as one of the knights. I think kris knight combined with chess theory (two knights) is all but confirmed at this point.
8:03 A point that Black Chestnut has said about this. If Kris isn't the Knight....Why the FUCK is Chapter 3 Boss also in the stairs? Toby says "silhuoettes of the bosses from all the chapters", which of course, includes the boss from the FOUNTAIN THAT KRIS OPENED
What they are saying is that Chapter 3 would have a boss despite KRIS being the one who opened the fountain. Like what are they going to say, "You opened a dark world for us so now we're going to beat you up"? Yes arguments and altercations are possible copouts but if they say The Knight opened up a fountain for them... That opens TWO possibilities, "7 days 7 Knights" or "Kris Knight".
@ They could just hate Kris specifically for other reasons, or maybe don't want Kris to seal the fountain so they become a villain while still being nice to kris and pleading for them to stay
1:40 and thats where i think you are wrong, "jumped out" i think the most feasible option is that the knight was in the library and most likely when they heard berdly and noelle entering into the room, they hid into the closet, why they created a fountain in the same room as noelle and berdly? Who knows, but the most likely scenario of the creation of the fountain was that they stabbed the ground in the closet, and the darkness from that place seeped out into the room noelle and berdly were in, unaware of the darkness swallowing them into the darkworld until it was too late, at least that's my theory, you and me are working on limited knowledge on the dark fountains afterall, we don't actually know how wide of a range darkness can take under it's dark wings
Okay, so I apologize for how long this is (UA-cam told me it’s too long for a single comment, still be split into the top few replies here), but I have a LOT to say on this topic. (1/3) I’ve been thinking about it really deeply lately, and I think there is one REALLY promising alternative to Kris Knight that I would be willing to accept (and this is coming from somebody who has been a THOROUGH Kris Knight supporter for years); Ralsei, but possessing Kris’ body. Now look, I’ve never liked the idea that Kris’ character should be diminished by having their actions not be their own, as we already have so little personality for them to begin with, and Kris has a LOT of motive to want to open dark worlds when we consider how each dark world affected their life, from turning the violent bully into a close friend, reconnecting with Noelle, getting Berdly off of his high horse, becoming a legendary a hero instead of an unaccomplished town weirdo, and now the next chapter is set in the perfect location to address their home life, the divorce, and even discuss topics like what the town thinks of Susie and why she looks up to Toriel. By all accounts, Kris’ life is being improved by the dark worlds, and so they have every reason to WANT to be the Knight. However, there is another alternative explanation that still maintains Kris’ motive while ALSO connecting the identity of the Knight to a couple of the other major core themes and plot details of Deltarune. Let’s establish these themes and how they relate to each other; Deltarune is all about duality of opposing forces. Light and Dark, Reality and Dream, Hope and Hopelessness, Angels and Demons, Freedom and Entrapment, Determination and Determinism, and most of all- “Delta” and “Rune”, meaning “change” and “set in stone” in this context. And it’s not a coincidence that I listed the pairs in the order I did. On numerous occasions the game compares ideas on the left side of each pair with each other while ideas on the left are related to each other. The legend literally lays the screen out this way while saying “It is a legend of light; it is a legend of dark”, “It is a legend of hope; it is a legend of dreams”, “This is the legend of Delta Rune”. The very same legend also mentions the heroes are shining with hope, and Don’t Forget’s lyrics compare dark with fantasy, losing your sense of home, and feeling hopeless in the first verse, while comparing light, soul, truth, and hope in the second verse, and the first save point is noted to be the light only you can see. Your soul is also noted to “shine its power” onto others, like when casting Red Buster or Dual Heal, or how the soul holds the fate of the world, and is what is responsible for dealing dark fountains. Spamton is also seen comparing being in the dark to not being free several times, then also comparing seeing the light of freedom with Heaven. Why is all of this important? Because when we consider the fact that there is a relationship between the ideas of using dark worlds to change the lives of characters with massive adventures, we are naturally connecting this idea of desiring change to darkness, hopelessness, fantasy, and most of all, demons. Why demons? Because of Gaster. He’s represented by the repeated use of the number 6, and given his own relationship to Ralsei (knowing the same prophecy and all), it ALSO attached Ralsei to that idea of demons.
(2/3) Gaster is also connected to this idea of using the power of our soul’s light to make change, considering the last things he said before the game released were “I look forward to creating a new future with you” and “SHOW YOURSELF! DELTA RUNE!”, and then we became connected to their world. But, on the subject of Ralsei’s connection to demons, you know what else is attached to demons? Kris, who had a prior interest in the occult and demon summoning rituals. So, what I’m suggesting is this; Kris successfully summoned a demon, that being either Gaster or Ralsei, and made a deal with the devil of sorts to have his life turned for the better. The payment? A human vessel to be puppeted around to complete some chores every once in a while. This would then be what we see at the ends of each chapter- Ralsei possesses Kris and forces them to do these actions in order to set up the events of the prophecy to occur as foretold, and Kris gets the benefit of each chapter improving their own life. I think it’s important as well to provide some additional details that can back up this theory, so lets go through everything this would slot neatly into place for us: Kris walking like a zombie. Current theories are that Kris is dead, or is dying without the soul, but a third contender is that it’s just hard to move a body around when you’re possessing it. This is a pretty typical depiction of possessed people in horror movies, moving limp-like and jittery. This also solidifies the connections between dual themes as I said earlier, making the relationship between Ralsei, Gaster, Dark, Demons, and Change all far more obvious, which makes sense given that the Knight can be shown to relate to all those ideas as well. Furthermore, this game has a handful of biblical references when discussing certain characters. Kris is symbolized by an apple on multiple occasions, even taking a bite from one in the story from the Spamton Sweepstakes, having apple juice as their tea flavour, and possibly even using some of the apple scented shampoo between the two chapters in addition to eating the whole pie and plugging in the TV (and creating the chapter 2 dark world if Kris/Ralsei Knight is true). Apples are the image of the forbidden fruit of knowledge of good and evil in the story of Adam and Eve, and Eve is tricked into eating it by Lucifer, granting humans free will and the ability to do evil. In addition to the Apple imagery, “In the Bible, knights are symbols of those who save others, follow rules, and prepare for battle. They also represent the idea of a knight of faith, someone who voluntarily chooses to sacrifice themselves for a higher cause”. A rule follower who believes darkners only exist to serve and assist the lightners who believes in pacifism and prepares for battle (perhaps by recruiting an army of darkners)? Sounds a lot like a little fluffy boi we know. This also clears up how Ralsei is capable of traversing Dark Worlds and why he doesn’t seem to have a physical form or an object in Kris’ inventory. If he’s a demon, he’s always with Kris in a more metaphysical way.
I’m an Alvin Knight truther, but Kris Knight is my second favorite Knight theory (followed by the insane Pizzapants Knight theory). You bring up a lot of great points here, and I do think Kris being the Knight has a lot of spicy implications for the story! So basically good vid
Maybe removing the soul is like a poison effect, and the Butt-Pie toriel made healed him part ways. It’d give them a reason to need to eat the literal best healing item from Undertale. The pie could have been essential to his plan rather than a joke.
@TrixyTrixter We have not seen a lick of papyrus in Deltarune. We haven't even heard his name, Sans just says "my brother". Sans says that we'll probably get to meet him "around when Asriel comes back home" at the end of the week. Now obviously this hardly proves anything, so let's get into the midst of it, shall we? Part 2/3: Gaster obviously has some connections. From the secret bosses (perhaps Seam), to the player, to presumably Kris, to the DARK worlds (as in Darker yet Darker) it is very safe to assume Gaster is pulling the strings for the Knight, though... likely not as the soul pulls Kris' strings. Obviously it's just as likely that he gave the title to the kid he also gave a Determination soul as it is that he gave it to someone he knows well, such as a family connection... Or obviously he could be pulling the strings in the 7 days 7 knights theory, just whispering to each individual Knight, who knows? 101% chance Gaster is NOT the knight, 1% margin of error, because that man *does not exist* for long enough to make Dark fountains especially when they presumably require determination... But Papyrus has always been easy to control... Flowey does it, the player does it, Undyne sort of does it... He's a perfect target, considering his innocence could lead to him simply wanting more friends and being told he can visit them all later, or that Stupid closet theory nod: Papyrus is the right size for the closet ig...? The closet is stupid tbh lol Obviously from there, he's... literally never mentioned and most of those points can be disproven or ignored, right? From there it's an acceptable theory but doesn't mean much, right? That's about as much proof as anyone else has as the Knight. "Papyrus could get around undetected because hardly anyone has seen him so he just has to do stuff at night as Gaster's call". Plus he totally would have some kind of... "Skeleton key" in order to get into the library. There is no way he does not it would be such a Papyrus thing to do lol, but let's get serious... Time for part 3 ohnoimrunningoutofspa-
Part 3: The insane ones that really shouldn't work... Papyrus keeps getting interviews. Why Papyrus? What would we really have to ask him? He's interesting and all, but... Why not Alphys and Undyne? You could get out of every question being to Sans by having those two. Maybe Toriel, or Asgore? Maybe... I dunno, Napstablook??? Papyrus has gotten two interviews and in a third one had a big reveal that may have been a nod to this theory or disproving it, who knows... What's so important about Papyrus, Toby?? Why is he being brought up over and over again? Is Deltarune going to end with a lot of questions and we'll get a *Papyrus interview* afterwards to satiate our questions?? "WHAT? I'M THE BAD GUY?" - Papyrus The big reveal or the one that messes with us. I don't know if Toby was proving the theory with a small nod, or making fun of it, but in the What Do You Think About The Number Nine interview, Papyrus basically says... "Seven is the cool number it would never eat nine" "If 5 sics 7 on 9, 5 could be the real culprit and 7 could be a misled antihero" Eventually the conversation devolved and then after stepping back they go back to it, had 7 be considered *Papyrus* (Just remembered it now, but Papyrus has 680 HP. Could be rounded up to 700 ig lol) and Papyrus' response is... well, "What!? I'm the villain!?" "hmm. maybe you seem like an enemy, but you're actually a good guy." "WHAT? WHY WOULD I EVER BE AN ENEMY?" ...And that part of the conversation ends there. ...Hinting back to how Gaster might be misleading Papyrus to be the Knight. They pretty much end the interview there lol That's obviously a recent piece of evidence, and I can't even think of all the insane evidence at the moment that makes me feel like Papyrus COULD be the knight, but... Despite not wanting to believe it, there's one more that... kind of makes me feel like it's true. ...So Toby thought up Deltarune in a fever dream, right? He has the ending planned and everything. ...Actually that alone kind of gives a big point for the Vessel being the knight for some sort of "Fighting Darth Vader in the forest then he takes off the mask and it's Luke" thing, but that's not important Anyways, Toby's obviously a leitmotifs type of guy, right? So, to nod to the final boss, he might... *Put the villain's theme in the main battle theme?* *Like how he was going to **_USE BONETROUSLE_** as the main battle theme for Deltarune????* Bonetrousle was going to be the main battle theme for Deltarune. And then Toby proceeded to give it over to Papyrus for Undertale. There is NO WAY Papyrus is the knight but I keep finding pieces of evidence here and there! Trashy??? Like the one Papyrus mentioned in Undertale? Now an NPC in Deltarune. Royal Guard? Doesn't exist here in Deltarune, but he can definitely be *a Knight* Wanting to be cool and make lots of friends? Why not actually MAKE them instead? What's "The Roaring"? Who knows, he's just following Gaster's example (Queen and King were just following The Knight's example lol) The pieces should not fit and I do believe Kris is actually the knight but there's a surprising amount of growing proof that Papyrus might have a chance and I hate it lol
Finally a fellow Kris Knight truther! For the record I think the most honest discussion of the Knight's identity is "we don't even know if it's important so why is this the thing we're obsessing over" but like, what little pointers we do have baseline obviously indicate that Kris is the Knight. Could it be a red herring? Sure! Everything could be! The Roaring could be a red herring too while we're at it! Noelle angel symbolism could be a red herring! Dess could be a red herring! Mike could be a red herring! But if we're to assume that the things we're shown can't be trusted... Why are we here again?
The reason why most people thinks Kris isn’t the knight is actually due to a small detail: THE BOOKS When we seal the fountain in chapter two we see that on the table of the computer lab Noelle and Birdley have placed books and school stuff there. This means that the fountain must have been made after they placed their stuff otherwise it wouldn’t have been on the table. if they stumbled into the dark world like Kris and Susie in chapter one they would have been in a dark void initially like them so there was no table and no light to even read the books, plus they wouldn’t have sat in their chairs in the dark. It’s obviously impossible for Kris to have made a fountain in the day because they would have needed to take their soul out in broad daylight, get out of school, walk to the library and create the fountain in the same room with Noelle and Birdley without being noticed through all of it. whoever did it must not have been noticed by Noelle or Birdley, so they probably hid in the closet before Birdley and Noelle got in the computer room, sat on the table with the books, then, the knight opened the fountain. (Ps: I just realized that I spelled the blue bird’s name wrong but I’m too tired to look up the right way to spell it) Also I’m not a native speaker so forgive any grammar mistakes I made
@m_supercat8834 I think the books are open 1: because that’s how a darkworld works, Kris’s pencil becomes the sword and why could the books become Berdly or Noelle’s gear. 2: Stumbling into a place could totally open a book or a papers, it’s like falling on the ground. If you feel with a bunch of books in your hand, I would bet one or two would open. 3: Toby wanted to add more to bland table, without the books it looks pretty empty as Noelle and Berdly wake up
@Delta58784 yeah but they are on the table. When Birdley and Noelle put them back they are holding them in their hands, If they fell into the dark world with books in their hands the books would have been on the ground, not on the table. Also they wouldn’t be sitting in chairs. I
@@Delta58784 also this has nothing to do with the theory, but in the end part of the video, when your character is in the center of you pause it kinda looks like a creepy face smiling. Maybe I’m just tripping 😅
There's the possibility that there isn't a story reason for that. It could be that it's for writing convenience. Makes it more believable that Noelle and Berdly would think it was a dream. At least that's what i heard. I think the evidence for Kris knight is much stronger then any evidence against it.
This was genuinely so much fun to watch! I was listening to this while designing a snowgrave exclusive version of a conceptual chapter 3 secret boss ive been designing, so this really kept me motivated! (Which, motivation is something I've been REALLY struggling with recently, so thank you for that). I really hope you make more videos like this.
I would really like the idea of theres multiple knights and kris is one of them. That's why we see what we see at the end of chapter 2, thats why nobody recognizes kris as the knight, and thats why we'll continue to traverse dark worlds in the coming chapters
IMO, Ralsei has no real reason to hide the creation of a dark fountain from the player, and even if he did, he could just make us flash to king or smth, not to mention the knight could've simply sneaked behind Noelle and Berdly, knocked them out and then opened the fountain. Also Kris could've opened the fountain for a variety of reasons, maybe to get the family closer again, maybe to expand their relationship with Susie, and honestly theorizing about why kris opened the fountain is a cooler idea than just taking it at face value that Kris is the knight.
I can't believe everyone uses this argument when Snowgrave exists. Do you really believe that Kris is a soulless monster that wishes to see their mother turned into a murderer by our hand? That is what you are doing, you are giving Kris an out, an out they don't take. If Kris is the Knight then they have a greater motive for this, but if they aren't then opening the Chapter 3 fountain becomes an action they do for surface level reasons that become extremely questionable the moment the player torments Noelle into killing Berdly. The best play Kris can do if they aren't the Knight and want us punished for Snowgrave is to make it impossible to progress, not creating more content for us to consume.
@@gavros9636 Sure, but they still knowingly put their mother in danger in snowgrave (And I doubt Kris is selfish enough to consider the roaring or whatever over their mother's safety), so if they WERE the knight and wanted us to be unable to play the game anymore, it'd make sense to either: A, open a fountain in the town, causing the roaring to instantly end the game. B, make a fountain SOMEWHERE ELSE the soul likely wouldn't check (maybe break into sans and papyrus' house). Ultimately, maybe none of the reasons I depicted were the actual one for the fountain's creation (I actually wasn't considering snowgrave when making that comment) but it's also a really weird route for Kris to make the fountain KNOWING we will do whatever we can to corrupt the people in it, even if they have an ulterior goal by being the knight. Looking back at the ending with snowgrave in mind, maybe the more Kris levels up, the more they can resist us? I mean, I would assume "falselv" as it is stated in the code is important, maybe it's Deltarune's determination? Maybe by sealing fountains, Kris can permanently break the link between us, so they do it ASAP in both chapters?
What do you think of Queen's line "hell of a study session today"? Does it disprove Kris Knight? Also Jevil mentions the hand of the knight is drifting forward.
@@maila319 “A hell of a study session” is probably more of a joke. It’s not literal Queen probably knew they were going to study but that doesn’t mean they actually did. And also Jevils line doesn’t really debunk anything. It just saying that the Knight is slowly making itself known
why would birdley and noelle exit the fountain asleep -possibly implying that they had fallen asleep by the time the fountain was created- with their books and papers already lying on the table as well, if they were to have entered the same way as kris and susie ?
@@Delta58784details are rarely unintentional. even then, disregarding the books as an aesthetic detail, this does not explain the state birdley and noelle find themselves in once the fountain is sealed. as for ralsei casting them to sleep... well first off, that would not be a theory, but an entire creation. not only is there no evidence in support of this idea, but this would imply that ralsei is able to materialise as well as exit a dark world ; which could work, but would then lead us into ralsei knight territory, thereby contradicting our initial point. the reason this would be a mandatory implication is that if one's state in a dark world affected that in a light one, then neither birdley nor noelle would have been asleep as you sealed the fountain, since they were -iirc, correct me if i'm wrong- not just moments prior. the only exception to this being death, as there would be no soul to return to the lightner's light world body, perhaps ? otherwise, how would one explain birdley's alleged death in snowgrave ? unless a frozen soul were to be rendered incapacitated in their ability to travel between worlds, even as its current one were to be closed ? lots of speculation, for sure, although little not contradicting or superceding kris knight theory.
I can't wait for Chapter 3 to finally prove whether Kris is the knight or not. During all my time making and watching theories there is nothing that I have found more annoying than the endless debates on whether the Cyber World Dark Fountain was made with Noelle and Berdly inside or not.
I dont think chapter 3-4 will confirm it. With the constant amount of times that the main boss hasn’t seen or can’t recognize the knight makes me assume that Tenna wont either. BlackChestnut makes some good points about why. I’d recommend watching their newest video
I always disliked the king dialoge arguments, mainly because king and knight meeting will break one of the few rules of dark worlds that we know, that lightners cannot exit the dark world without closing the fountain
I don’t think they *need* to close the fountain to leave, since in chapter 2 you can just exit it whenever (obviously they wouldn’t have known this in chapter 1). They only do it because it’s kinda their thing.
My best point aganst Kris night theory is the following: Kris gained the knowledge of opening a dark fountain thanks to the Queen, and so he opened it in chapter 2. And i speculat that the reason chapter 3 and 4 are being released at the same time is because we will have to seel both Kris's fountain and the knight fountain.
Ooo, I like the idea of the chapters being released together because the fountains were made together/simultaneously/around the same time/you get it But, we have seen clips that imply a chapter which is almost fully the Lightworld for the most part, I don’t remember if they confirmed what chapter is it but I think we do know it’s either chapter 4 or 5 But well, this doesn’t really mean/contradicts much Could just like an intermission chapters for the characters and us to rest before the literal pre-finale chapter started (Yet, I feel like it could get a less happier reactions if it was unless chapter 5 is also released along chapter 6, since well, imagine having to wait for a single chapter just to it be a intermission chapter. And it being released alongside chapter 6 also doesn’t really fix it completely because we already would’ve had our intermission by the time both release, it’s like if your lunch break was at the start of the job/classes, wouldn’t really make sense as it isn’t a break, and that could take off the emotional bond we would fortify as we have the intermission ALONGSIDE the characters instead of before us then them)
Also, why do people say for sure that Kris only gained the knowledge after Queen? Like, if they were the knight that opened the chapter 1, it doesn’t mean that Queen just wouldn’t say the same thing anyway, as far as SHE knows, they don’t know We can’t just assume what a characters does and does not know Heck, Kris could very well or could not know how to draw, if we aren’t told specially told, we can’t know I’ve seen people trying to respond “Well, if Kris knew they wouldn’t have helped defeating Queen” but what???? Do you guys think undercover cops are obligatory to say yes when you ask if they are a cop? “Why would they hide they are X when they are hiding that they are X” I even theorize Snowgrave actually could be the route Kris takes if they had free will
@@CreatorProductionsOriginal I have one good point to back my statement. The snowgrave route.on a regular route after defeating queen you get the segment where she speaks to Noelle explaining how to do a dark fountain. Ok, cool. Snowgrave route, During the snowgrave route alot of things are skipped a good portion of cybercity, a portion of queens (now spamton) mansion. Even when Ralsei tried to speak to Kris alone that is skipped. We reach the queen, Noelle isnt there. But she still speaks to nobody. Explaining how to make a dark fountain. I beliee its because Tobyfox needs this moment for the story to proceed,. what reaosn woiuld he have to keep this scene when he skipped everything else, it would have even made more sense if she ust attacked them with the robot right away, or hell just was shocked about losing the mansion. But tobyfox still keeps this moment because it is required for Kris to learn to make a fountain for the story to proceed.Idk if you get what im saying. But when i first played that route it struck me as odd as this scene still being there withouth a reason. And plus. Could you laborate on him choosing to do snowgrave it would be interesting.
@@CreatorProductionsOriginal Do you, seriusly think that an entire chapter will be spent going around town? Its clearly because Toby doesnt wanna spoil the fourth chapter location and simply keeps it hidden since everyones speculating. Personaly i believe its gonna be the chuch. But i guess it would make sense to get a break before the finale, after all chapter 4 is exactly in the middle. So i wouldnt exclude your idea
@GrindingChicken yea, if it isn’t a break then it’s definitely the church Since I remember that in some text in chapter 2 said that we had church tomorrow And the thing of Kris choosing Weird route with free will? I don’t remember 💀
Undyne is the knight I think. She’s a knight in Undertale and she acts kinda sus cause I think she’s laughing at you for talking about a “Dark World” to make you think she doesn’t know about Dark Worlds but she does
A point I never see being brought up is like Do we know 100% that Noelle and Berdly got into the dark world at the same time? Like, what if Kris was in the closet, opened the fountain while Berdly sleeper inside, then Noelle went to the library and got sucked it?
As a fellow Kris knight truther, I must sadly disprove this theory😔. Berdly was in class in chapter 2 before going to the dark world. Unless Kris somehow snuck out of the classroom while they were supposed to be sleeping after class (while Alphys was watching and Susie was waiting in the hallway), there just wouldn't have been any time for Kris to do that. I'm pretty sure Kris opened the fountain the previous night, and people are just blowing certain evidence out of proportion. I heard someone say that Ralsei mightve used pacify before Kris sealed the fountain to put Noelle and Berdly to sleep to help convince them that it was all a dream. I mean, I think Berdly was 100% sure it WASNT a dream until he woke up from being asleep, where he was like "shoot I guess it HAD to have been a dream"
Im sure it would be done well if Toby went that way but I don’t find the idea of Kris knight super interesting right now because we already have all those questions about Kris’ motivations without him for sure being the knight. Like we are already asking the “why would he risk the roaring to make a fountain” those questions are already there with the end of chapter two and will therefore be there even if he’s not the knight. Him not being the knight seems more interesting right now because we have the questions of Kris’ motivation with the ending of chapter two AND the mystery of the knight’s identity and their goal (Also not to be that guy no hate but IF it was a red herring, “look at this it’s so obvious!” is exactly what a red herring is supposed to make you think 😭)
Yet it turns from "Kris is risking the Roaring but why?" To "Kris is risking the roaring as the Knight AFTER seeing some awful stuff in the Snowgrave route and the like" To me, no matter who the Knight is, they'll all have cookie cutter reasons for doing so, like "Oh the true mastermind is Gaster", or "I wanted friends", or "I didn't know it was dangerous", but... With Kris it asks questions about when they started doing it, or if Kris IS the Knight, how they got that power in the first place because this means they're likely the only one to have such power (Ralsei might not even know if Berdly could do it but didn't want to risk it), and sure we know something happened to them in the past which might have given them the soul, but now we KNOW it had some sort of connection to Gaster or something else because not only did it give them the red soul, it likely made them become stringed up in being the Knight... Any other Knight candidate it becomes "Oh, well they PROBABLY met with Gaster or smth and went crazy like the superbosses" but with Kris it makes their motives and even more pressing question. It ACTUALLY opens up more questions and opens up existing ones further in my opinion. Just because the other options are also fun to theorize about and have their own questions does not mean that Kris Knight is not a valid high tier theory on who the Knight is.
What if Kris took our original avatar, and is using his original body as way to keep tabs on us. That means we are not fighting Kris but the remnants of their will. Until moments where is backdoors back in to override us.
Really liked this video, you presented interesting ideas! Although I think Toby Fox is going to surprise us with something different just to troll us :P
Finally someone who understands Kris is the knight. Or at least... their body is. I'm personally of the belief that the red soul is Kris and as such there is something else pulling the strings but that's just me.
@ellotheearthling there’s no real evidence the knight is tall. The only real evidence is queens like that says “the knights long arm..” or whatever she says
@ in that case, long arm can also mean “the far reaching power” basically the knight has a vast control over the world which would imply the knight is definitely a lightner.
I think everyone is right. Kris is and is not the knight. There are two knights in chess after all. He can be a knight but not necessarily the roaring knight.
Chess theory isnt confirmed (probably isn’t because of Tenna who doesn’t seem to be a rook or a bishop) but yes, that’s a great point. Two knights could explain a lot but honestly I feel like one knight makes more sense
So the reason i dont think kris is the knight is very simple. Kris doesnt want to hurt people. The knight does. The knight wanted to kill us. The knight to me is why king is the way he is and why king even fits us to begin with. The knight is cold manipulative and cruel also. I believe snowgrave is supposed to be a perfect mirror of The Knight
@Delta58784 king directly states "by the knights will I will shatter your heart to pieces." The knights will is to kill Us. King is a pawn to the knight
@@thenobody7509 Fair enough but my point in video on that is that King and Queen act the way they do because of 1: the fountain 2: because they assumed what the knight wants based on their actions. King assumes the knight wants to kill them (but Seam also says that the reason the king wants to kill them is because king has a vendetta against lightners cause of their betrayal to the card kingdom so long ago. 3: by the knights will (which I think) could possibly mean “because the knight gave me life, I will use it to kill you”
@@Delta58784 I disagree with the king part. Because it is said that the Knight put king into power and helped king throw the other kings in prison. Meaning, they've been face to face with each other and have spoken. So when King says "by the knights will." It is extremely likely he isnt mistaken.
@ My argument to that is that the knight could have manipulated the light world to cause those events. If Kris has experience in darkworlds prior to the events of Deltarune we could assume they know how they work. Kris could have easily moved the playing cards to manipulate the darkworld. Put the king card at the top of the castle and the others at the bottom. The darkworld would have to make an explanation for what happened so that’s what it came up with
If the knight is a single person, then that means, since Gerson wrote books inspired by dreams he had (so dark world he visited), that Kris is older than Alvin 🫥... Also, it disproves Alvin as the knight. So yeah, there being many knights would make much sense.
@Delta58784 dark worlds are referred to as dreams more than once. I remember by Susie in chapter 1, by Susie to Noelle in chapter 2 in her room, by Berdly, Noelle and Susie after exiting the dark world in chapter 2 and by Noelle in the hospital in chapter 2. Not sure there's even an instance of dream not being referring to dark worlds. There's also Alice in wonderland imagery in the dark worlds like the card themed characters in chapter 1, the evil queen, the teacups and cheshire cat smile appearing in the Neo body room and in this story it's a dream. Toby is almost aggressively trying to make us see the connection without saying it directly. Furthermore, goes without saying that Gerson is a story writer and there's that fictional make-believe aspect the dark worlds have.
Erm, you actually forgot about the scene where ralsei turns to face the camera and says "Also, Kris isn't the knight btw".. How will you address this...
@RedMistKali we’ve got a little joksta ova here
can't believe this guy is so biased he left out that part
@RedMistKali to be totally fair tho, doesn't it seem a little sus that ralsei felt the need to say that? Especially since he said it before we see Kris open a dark fountain. It's like he's trying to gaslight us in advance. I dunno man, almost sounds like more evidence for Kris Knight if you ask me!
/s
@@ofconsciousness you forgot when in card castle ralsei also says "stop flipping theorizing just wait for chapter 3&4, thanks in advance!"
Oh, a wise guy, eh?
EY, TONY! WE GOT A WISE GUY OVER HERE!
11:48 Also notice how specific the words are around the Knight's appearance. The Knight didn't lock up the three other Card Kings, The Knight appeared, and _then_ the kings were locked away. "By the Knight's _will_ I will tear your hearts to pieces!" Not the Knight's command. The game takes intentional effort to never mention that the Knight told or showed the bosses anything. King and Queen also have pretty much opposite motives, the King wanting to kill all Lightners to liberate Darkners, the Queen wanting to make a perfect world to entertain Lightners and treating her Darkners poorly to get that. Seems weird that they'd get that if the Knight told them anything. This also matches Kris' behavior, they don't talk much, and spoke even less before we took control.
Kris is the knight. Kris is a lightner. Does that make Kris a… Knightlight?
I...kinda need this now
... *Sight and opens Photoshop*
I guess
SILENT KNIGHT
A Knightner
At this point I don’t even care for who’s the knight, I want to see ALL possible knights
Aka I desperately want fangames or fanworks to go over like “Hey, what if Susie was the knight? Prob not in cannon but this isn’t cannon! Let’s explore that idea!”
Im glad im not the only one with this mindset
Like hoooo BOY when Deltarune is finished we're gonna have so many WhatIf knight fanworks
I just have to say:
It never mattered who the knight was. Everyone acts like it's some big mystery and sure it might be, but...
If it's Kris, it opens up bigger and better questions about KRIS.
What did they do to become the Knight? Did this have anything to do with gaining the red soul? Was this Gaster, stringing things up behind the scenes as the true mastermind, or was it really Kris' intention? Did Kris make the original dark world, or did someone else? How long of a time limit do they really have without the soul, and is it taken down by making a fountain? Do they have some sort of reason that they HAVE to do this...?
In this hypothetical we can't even assume that other people can open dark fountains, or what Kris' motives are.
Those are the more interesting questions to me. We can come up with all sorts of motives for anyone else. Maybe Gaster drove them insane, sure, or maybe they want Dark world friends, or maybe they think it's just fun or interesting, and like any of the other chess pieces, are unaware of what theyre doing.
Kris is one of the few people we know to have a conscience (In the Snowgrave route Ralsei says that Kris looks like they saw something terrible because they looked horrified or smth) yet The Roaring is even worse than what they experience when we figure that out and Kris STILL opens a dark fountain that same day, afterwards.
They seem to know what theyre doing, and yet... still can't help themselves.
Kris is the most interesting knight candidate to me because it just opens up even more questions by answering ones that desperately need answering.
Fucking everyone's Watsonian answers to the knight, Doylist all the way. It's just BETTER if Kris is the knight, the story is just BETTER. All of the convoluted timelines and detective work are thin in comparison, none of it is genuinely strong enough to stop kris from being the knight.
@@basileusbasil4041
Papyrus has some surprising evidence on his part like personal connections to Gaster and the like...
But Kris is just undoubtedly the Knight, like come on...
@@kirbyfreakyt4695 yeah, although watch us be wrong when the next two chapters drop.
@@basileusbasil4041
Oh come on that's only like a 15% chance
My current top 4:
Kris Knight
Papyrus Knight
7 days 7 Knights
Vessel Knight
Finally
A good Kris knight video!
It was so pleasant to watch , thank you so much!
Did you not see that other one, I believe it's... Shiruba's?
That one's pretty good too lol
ooh i haven't thought about the soul thing when kris moves weird :o really cool
Honestly I'm shocked at how you were able to add criticism to so many anti-Kris Knight points! I wouldn't say i 100% believe that Kris is the knight for sure, but now I do think it's a good possibility that they are. Wonderful video, hope to see more content from you!
Your pfp is so cute!
@Planet.Xplor3r awe thank you!
This might sound really stupid, but I don't think Kris opening a Fountain is evidence towards them being the Knight, especially after Queen says any Lightner can do it and ESPECIALLY after BERDLY out of all people almost opens one himself.
I honestly think Kris DOES want to tell Undyne about the Dark Worlds. In Chapter 2, when you talk to her about it, Kris specifically brings up the fact that they are dangerous because people could fall in, which isn't something that is mentioned in the prompt when you choose to tell her about the Dark Worlds, implying that this is what Kris actually wants to say.
I think there’s also more evidence to add to this. Kris seems to have more control in the light world(He’s directly ripped his soul out and has full control over save and load in the light world), yet he can still subvert our control in the dark world. If he really didn’t want to tell Undyne then he could have probably just removed the dialogue option… or said it in a less serious way.
Him opening the dark fountain is likely to pull Undyne into it… which would make her believe in them and give Kris someone who’s way better at finding the Knight than he is.
I think that there are multiple Knights, likely two, with Kris being one. I think that the title of the knight being given to the person who creates a dark fountain.
Regarding the lab closet discussion. There is a theory that the knight somehow used a pacify spell in the light world before opening the fountain. It takes a very bald assumption that it's possible to use magic in the light world but apart from that this theory makes the most sense as it closes all of the plot holes. Why they didn't see the knight? Why were they siting (and sleeping) on the desk? Why they believed that it was a dream? Because they fell asleep.
Also here is a crack theory because why not: Ralsei is the knight. He can use the pacify spell, he knows about the prophecy, he is like a dungeon master who pulls the strings to make events play out in the right way. He also isn't a darkner but something like a Gaster of some kind. That's why he can teleport between dark worlds and can appear in the light world.
Actually I think there’s quite a bit of evidence to show that magic is usable in the light world… it’s just not as common.
The first piece of evidence is Kris’ save file. Kris has a save file before entering the dark world. It even has their name on the file, but when we enter the dark world the file name changes to our name. In chapter 2 Kris creates a new save file without entering a dark world as far as we know. There’s even a script to save in the light world with hacks… even if we save the file has Kris’ name. Which means save and load exists in the light world… we just have less control.
The second piece of evidence is just the ability to create dark world. It’s literally just some sort of magic or supernatural ability.
The third piece of evidence is Kris wanting to use magic. It’s possible the reason why Kris was so obsessed with magic is because they wanted to fit in with Asgore and Toriel. Just like how they wore the goat horns.
The fourth piece of evidence is Noelle saying that she wished healing magic was real. She said that she wished a specific type of magic was real… not that she wished magic was real.
The fifth piece of evidence is when Susie talked about the dark worlds. I don’t remember the exact line, but she said something like “in the dark world where there are axes, battles, and magic.” Magic is placed next to axes and battles… which are two very real things. It seems a bit out of place to lump them all together if one isn’t real… but not in the funny or obvious kind of out of place that Deltarune is known for.
Why did Kris let us see them open a portal? Simple. It plays into the theme of "Your choices do not matter." You close a fountain, they'll just open a new one and let you know you didn't change anything. Your choices do. not. matter.
I like your style! And these are really good points. Subbed!
I saw a lowkey kinda crazy theory a little while back that basically said that The Knight isn't a single person, but rather a title given to whoever made the dark fountain that the darkeners in said fountain inhabit, and that there's actually a different Knight for each chapter.
@@CatPCgaming I’ve heard this idea but personally I don’t think any other characters we see have really good motives to do so. Lots of them have holes
Great video, i also find extremely dumb that the best argument the anti-Kris is the Knight fans use is: "It would be too obvious" or "Toby wouldn't do that because it would be bad writing".
So true. Honestly a story about observing the actions of our character we play as is more interesting than a game of Amongus.
@Delta58784 Agreed
KRIS is awesome and the KNIGHT is awesome so it just makes sense!!!!!!
I disagree with the theory that the Grand Fountain has been there for a long time. Considering how Alphys sends Kris and Susie to get chalk, I think it's safe to assume that the supply closet is used semi-regularly, which means that someone would have found out if the Fountain in there was more than, like, a week old at most.
I don’t think it’s been there a long time I think it’s just more natural than the other fountains. It wasn’t opened, it just burst from the ground.
@Delta58784 That'd make a lot of sense. If it wasn't molded after anyone's "will" that would explain why it looks so empty and discolored.
Wow, the whole movement after the heart ripped out becoming smooth and quicker is totally missed by kris knight haters. That alone was enough to solidify that kris is plausible as one of the knights. I think kris knight combined with chess theory (two knights) is all but confirmed at this point.
8:03 A point that Black Chestnut has said about this. If Kris isn't the Knight....Why the FUCK is Chapter 3 Boss also in the stairs? Toby says "silhuoettes of the bosses from all the chapters", which of course, includes the boss from the FOUNTAIN THAT KRIS OPENED
I have no idea what you're saying here
@@Hope-rh7rk How?
Dawg cause chapter 3 will be a chapter about kris's dark fountain and chapters need bosses so wut the problem
What they are saying is that Chapter 3 would have a boss despite KRIS being the one who opened the fountain.
Like what are they going to say, "You opened a dark world for us so now we're going to beat you up"?
Yes arguments and altercations are possible copouts but if they say The Knight opened up a fountain for them...
That opens TWO possibilities, "7 days 7 Knights" or "Kris Knight".
@ They could just hate Kris specifically for other reasons, or maybe don't want Kris to seal the fountain so they become a villain while still being nice to kris and pleading for them to stay
1:40 and thats where i think you are wrong, "jumped out" i think the most feasible option is that the knight was in the library and most likely when they heard berdly and noelle entering into the room, they hid into the closet, why they created a fountain in the same room as noelle and berdly? Who knows, but the most likely scenario of the creation of the fountain was that they stabbed the ground in the closet, and the darkness from that place seeped out into the room noelle and berdly were in, unaware of the darkness swallowing them into the darkworld until it was too late, at least that's my theory, you and me are working on limited knowledge on the dark fountains afterall, we don't actually know how wide of a range darkness can take under it's dark wings
Okay, so I apologize for how long this is (UA-cam told me it’s too long for a single comment, still be split into the top few replies here), but I have a LOT to say on this topic.
(1/3)
I’ve been thinking about it really deeply lately, and I think there is one REALLY promising alternative to Kris Knight that I would be willing to accept (and this is coming from somebody who has been a THOROUGH Kris Knight supporter for years); Ralsei, but possessing Kris’ body.
Now look, I’ve never liked the idea that Kris’ character should be diminished by having their actions not be their own, as we already have so little personality for them to begin with, and Kris has a LOT of motive to want to open dark worlds when we consider how each dark world affected their life, from turning the violent bully into a close friend, reconnecting with Noelle, getting Berdly off of his high horse, becoming a legendary a hero instead of an unaccomplished town weirdo, and now the next chapter is set in the perfect location to address their home life, the divorce, and even discuss topics like what the town thinks of Susie and why she looks up to Toriel.
By all accounts, Kris’ life is being improved by the dark worlds, and so they have every reason to WANT to be the Knight. However, there is another alternative explanation that still maintains Kris’ motive while ALSO connecting the identity of the Knight to a couple of the other major core themes and plot details of Deltarune. Let’s establish these themes and how they relate to each other;
Deltarune is all about duality of opposing forces. Light and Dark, Reality and Dream, Hope and Hopelessness, Angels and Demons, Freedom and Entrapment, Determination and Determinism, and most of all- “Delta” and “Rune”, meaning “change” and “set in stone” in this context. And it’s not a coincidence that I listed the pairs in the order I did. On numerous occasions the game compares ideas on the left side of each pair with each other while ideas on the left are related to each other.
The legend literally lays the screen out this way while saying “It is a legend of light; it is a legend of dark”, “It is a legend of hope; it is a legend of dreams”, “This is the legend of Delta Rune”. The very same legend also mentions the heroes are shining with hope, and Don’t Forget’s lyrics compare dark with fantasy, losing your sense of home, and feeling hopeless in the first verse, while comparing light, soul, truth, and hope in the second verse, and the first save point is noted to be the light only you can see. Your soul is also noted to “shine its power” onto others, like when casting Red Buster or Dual Heal, or how the soul holds the fate of the world, and is what is responsible for dealing dark fountains. Spamton is also seen comparing being in the dark to not being free several times, then also comparing seeing the light of freedom with Heaven.
Why is all of this important? Because when we consider the fact that there is a relationship between the ideas of using dark worlds to change the lives of characters with massive adventures, we are naturally connecting this idea of desiring change to darkness, hopelessness, fantasy, and most of all, demons. Why demons? Because of Gaster. He’s represented by the repeated use of the number 6, and given his own relationship to Ralsei (knowing the same prophecy and all), it ALSO attached Ralsei to that idea of demons.
(2/3)
Gaster is also connected to this idea of using the power of our soul’s light to make change, considering the last things he said before the game released were “I look forward to creating a new future with you” and “SHOW YOURSELF! DELTA RUNE!”, and then we became connected to their world.
But, on the subject of Ralsei’s connection to demons, you know what else is attached to demons? Kris, who had a prior interest in the occult and demon summoning rituals. So, what I’m suggesting is this; Kris successfully summoned a demon, that being either Gaster or Ralsei, and made a deal with the devil of sorts to have his life turned for the better. The payment? A human vessel to be puppeted around to complete some chores every once in a while. This would then be what we see at the ends of each chapter- Ralsei possesses Kris and forces them to do these actions in order to set up the events of the prophecy to occur as foretold, and Kris gets the benefit of each chapter improving their own life.
I think it’s important as well to provide some additional details that can back up this theory, so lets go through everything this would slot neatly into place for us:
Kris walking like a zombie. Current theories are that Kris is dead, or is dying without the soul, but a third contender is that it’s just hard to move a body around when you’re possessing it. This is a pretty typical depiction of possessed people in horror movies, moving limp-like and jittery.
This also solidifies the connections between dual themes as I said earlier, making the relationship between Ralsei, Gaster, Dark, Demons, and Change all far more obvious, which makes sense given that the Knight can be shown to relate to all those ideas as well.
Furthermore, this game has a handful of biblical references when discussing certain characters. Kris is symbolized by an apple on multiple occasions, even taking a bite from one in the story from the Spamton Sweepstakes, having apple juice as their tea flavour, and possibly even using some of the apple scented shampoo between the two chapters in addition to eating the whole pie and plugging in the TV (and creating the chapter 2 dark world if Kris/Ralsei Knight is true). Apples are the image of the forbidden fruit of knowledge of good and evil in the story of Adam and Eve, and Eve is tricked into eating it by Lucifer, granting humans free will and the ability to do evil.
In addition to the Apple imagery, “In the Bible, knights are symbols of those who save others, follow rules, and prepare for battle. They also represent the idea of a knight of faith, someone who voluntarily chooses to sacrifice themselves for a higher cause”. A rule follower who believes darkners only exist to serve and assist the lightners who believes in pacifism and prepares for battle (perhaps by recruiting an army of darkners)? Sounds a lot like a little fluffy boi we know.
This also clears up how Ralsei is capable of traversing Dark Worlds and why he doesn’t seem to have a physical form or an object in Kris’ inventory. If he’s a demon, he’s always with Kris in a more metaphysical way.
I’m an Alvin Knight truther, but Kris Knight is my second favorite Knight theory (followed by the insane Pizzapants Knight theory). You bring up a lot of great points here, and I do think Kris being the Knight has a lot of spicy implications for the story! So basically good vid
Maybe removing the soul is like a poison effect, and the Butt-Pie toriel made healed him part ways. It’d give them a reason to need to eat the literal best healing item from Undertale. The pie could have been essential to his plan rather than a joke.
Kris goes by they/them, but yeah.
@pugjuice8462 Don't care. He and Susie are gonna have cool TV adventure.
I gotta keep this comment section clean? Alright I'll grab the washing machine...
Tbh I think it’s either gonna be Kris knight or multi-knight, where every dark world has its own knight. Idk which one I lean more towards
Papyrus is my second guess of Knight personally due to the painfully high amount of evidence but Kris Knight is my main theory...
@kirbyfreakyt4695 By painfully high you mean 0 evidence.
@TrixyTrixter
We have not seen a lick of papyrus in Deltarune.
We haven't even heard his name, Sans just says "my brother". Sans says that we'll probably get to meet him "around when Asriel comes back home" at the end of the week.
Now obviously this hardly proves anything, so let's get into the midst of it, shall we?
Part 2/3:
Gaster obviously has some connections. From the secret bosses (perhaps Seam), to the player, to presumably Kris, to the DARK worlds (as in Darker yet Darker) it is very safe to assume Gaster is pulling the strings for the Knight, though... likely not as the soul pulls Kris' strings.
Obviously it's just as likely that he gave the title to the kid he also gave a Determination soul as it is that he gave it to someone he knows well, such as a family connection...
Or obviously he could be pulling the strings in the 7 days 7 knights theory, just whispering to each individual Knight, who knows?
101% chance Gaster is NOT the knight, 1% margin of error, because that man *does not exist* for long enough to make Dark fountains especially when they presumably require determination...
But Papyrus has always been easy to control...
Flowey does it, the player does it, Undyne sort of does it...
He's a perfect target, considering his innocence could lead to him simply wanting more friends and being told he can visit them all later, or that
Stupid closet theory nod: Papyrus is the right size for the closet ig...?
The closet is stupid tbh lol
Obviously from there, he's... literally never mentioned and most of those points can be disproven or ignored, right? From there it's an acceptable theory but doesn't mean much, right? That's about as much proof as anyone else has as the Knight.
"Papyrus could get around undetected because hardly anyone has seen him so he just has to do stuff at night as Gaster's call".
Plus he totally would have some kind of... "Skeleton key" in order to get into the library. There is no way he does not it would be such a Papyrus thing to do lol, but let's get serious...
Time for part 3 ohnoimrunningoutofspa-
Part 3: The insane ones that really shouldn't work...
Papyrus keeps getting interviews.
Why Papyrus? What would we really have to ask him? He's interesting and all, but... Why not Alphys and Undyne? You could get out of every question being to Sans by having those two. Maybe Toriel, or Asgore?
Maybe... I dunno, Napstablook???
Papyrus has gotten two interviews and in a third one had a big reveal that may have been a nod to this theory or disproving it, who knows...
What's so important about Papyrus, Toby?? Why is he being brought up over and over again? Is Deltarune going to end with a lot of questions and we'll get a *Papyrus interview* afterwards to satiate our questions??
"WHAT? I'M THE BAD GUY?" - Papyrus
The big reveal or the one that messes with us.
I don't know if Toby was proving the theory with a small nod, or making fun of it, but in the What Do You Think About The Number Nine interview, Papyrus basically says...
"Seven is the cool number it would never eat nine"
"If 5 sics 7 on 9, 5 could be the real culprit and 7 could be a misled antihero"
Eventually the conversation devolved and then after stepping back they go back to it, had 7 be considered *Papyrus* (Just remembered it now, but Papyrus has 680 HP. Could be rounded up to 700 ig lol) and Papyrus' response is... well, "What!? I'm the villain!?"
"hmm. maybe you seem like an enemy, but you're actually a good guy."
"WHAT? WHY WOULD I EVER BE AN ENEMY?"
...And that part of the conversation ends there.
...Hinting back to how Gaster might be misleading Papyrus to be the Knight.
They pretty much end the interview there lol
That's obviously a recent piece of evidence, and I can't even think of all the insane evidence at the moment that makes me feel like Papyrus COULD be the knight, but...
Despite not wanting to believe it, there's one more that... kind of makes me feel like it's true.
...So Toby thought up Deltarune in a fever dream, right? He has the ending planned and everything.
...Actually that alone kind of gives a big point for the Vessel being the knight for some sort of "Fighting Darth Vader in the forest then he takes off the mask and it's Luke" thing, but that's not important
Anyways, Toby's obviously a leitmotifs type of guy, right?
So, to nod to the final boss, he might...
*Put the villain's theme in the main battle theme?*
*Like how he was going to **_USE BONETROUSLE_** as the main battle theme for Deltarune????*
Bonetrousle was going to be the main battle theme for Deltarune.
And then Toby proceeded to give it over to Papyrus for Undertale.
There is NO WAY Papyrus is the knight but I keep finding pieces of evidence here and there!
Trashy??? Like the one Papyrus mentioned in Undertale? Now an NPC in Deltarune.
Royal Guard? Doesn't exist here in Deltarune, but he can definitely be *a Knight*
Wanting to be cool and make lots of friends?
Why not actually MAKE them instead?
What's "The Roaring"? Who knows, he's just following Gaster's example (Queen and King were just following The Knight's example lol)
The pieces should not fit and I do believe Kris is actually the knight but there's a surprising amount of growing proof that Papyrus might have a chance and I hate it lol
@@kirbyfreakyt4695 This was enjoyable to read, thanks 😭😭😭
Finally a fellow Kris Knight truther! For the record I think the most honest discussion of the Knight's identity is "we don't even know if it's important so why is this the thing we're obsessing over" but like, what little pointers we do have baseline obviously indicate that Kris is the Knight. Could it be a red herring? Sure! Everything could be! The Roaring could be a red herring too while we're at it! Noelle angel symbolism could be a red herring! Dess could be a red herring! Mike could be a red herring! But if we're to assume that the things we're shown can't be trusted... Why are we here again?
Lore of A Video In Support Of Kris Knight momentum 100
The reason why most people thinks Kris isn’t the knight is actually due to a small detail: THE BOOKS
When we seal the fountain in chapter two we see that on the table of the computer lab Noelle and Birdley have placed books and school stuff there. This means that the fountain must have been made after they placed their stuff otherwise it wouldn’t have been on the table.
if they stumbled into the dark world like Kris and Susie in chapter one they would have been in a dark void initially like them so there was no table and no light to even read the books, plus they wouldn’t have sat in their chairs in the dark.
It’s obviously impossible for Kris to have made a fountain in the day because they would have needed to take their soul out in broad daylight, get out of school, walk to the library and create the fountain in the same room with Noelle and Birdley without being noticed through all of it.
whoever did it must not have been noticed by Noelle or Birdley, so they probably hid in the closet before Birdley and Noelle got in the computer room, sat on the table with the books, then, the knight opened the fountain.
(Ps: I just realized that I spelled the blue bird’s name wrong but I’m too tired to look up the right way to spell it)
Also I’m not a native speaker so forgive any grammar mistakes I made
@m_supercat8834 I think the books are open 1: because that’s how a darkworld works, Kris’s pencil becomes the sword and why could the books become Berdly or Noelle’s gear. 2: Stumbling into a place could totally open a book or a papers, it’s like falling on the ground. If you feel with a bunch of books in your hand, I would bet one or two would open. 3: Toby wanted to add more to bland table, without the books it looks pretty empty as Noelle and Berdly wake up
@Delta58784 yeah but they are on the table. When Birdley and Noelle put them back they are holding them in their hands, If they fell into the dark world with books in their hands the books would have been on the ground, not on the table. Also they wouldn’t be sitting in chairs. I
@ Kris and Susie were standing tho. But either way I really don’t think the books are that important. Maybe, but I really think it’s atheistic
@@Delta58784 also this has nothing to do with the theory, but in the end part of the video, when your character is in the center of you pause it kinda looks like a creepy face smiling. Maybe I’m just tripping 😅
There's the possibility that there isn't a story reason for that. It could be that it's for writing convenience. Makes it more believable that Noelle and Berdly would think it was a dream.
At least that's what i heard.
I think the evidence for Kris knight is much stronger then any evidence against it.
No I'M THE KNIGHT
This was genuinely so much fun to watch! I was listening to this while designing a snowgrave exclusive version of a conceptual chapter 3 secret boss ive been designing, so this really kept me motivated! (Which, motivation is something I've been REALLY struggling with recently, so thank you for that). I really hope you make more videos like this.
This is really cool
I would really like the idea of theres multiple knights and kris is one of them. That's why we see what we see at the end of chapter 2, thats why nobody recognizes kris as the knight, and thats why we'll continue to traverse dark worlds in the coming chapters
hehe new kris knight bideo
It’s me, I’m the knight🤫🤫🤫
IMO, Ralsei has no real reason to hide the creation of a dark fountain from the player, and even if he did, he could just make us flash to king or smth, not to mention the knight could've simply sneaked behind Noelle and Berdly, knocked them out and then opened the fountain. Also Kris could've opened the fountain for a variety of reasons, maybe to get the family closer again, maybe to expand their relationship with Susie, and honestly theorizing about why kris opened the fountain is a cooler idea than just taking it at face value that Kris is the knight.
I can't believe everyone uses this argument when Snowgrave exists.
Do you really believe that Kris is a soulless monster that wishes to see their mother turned into a murderer by our hand?
That is what you are doing, you are giving Kris an out, an out they don't take. If Kris is the Knight then they have a greater motive for this, but if they aren't then opening the Chapter 3 fountain becomes an action they do for surface level reasons that become extremely questionable the moment the player torments Noelle into killing Berdly.
The best play Kris can do if they aren't the Knight and want us punished for Snowgrave is to make it impossible to progress, not creating more content for us to consume.
@@gavros9636 Sure, but they still knowingly put their mother in danger in snowgrave (And I doubt Kris is selfish enough to consider the roaring or whatever over their mother's safety), so if they WERE the knight and wanted us to be unable to play the game anymore, it'd make sense to either:
A, open a fountain in the town, causing the roaring to instantly end the game.
B, make a fountain SOMEWHERE ELSE the soul likely wouldn't check (maybe break into sans and papyrus' house). Ultimately, maybe none of the reasons I depicted were the actual one for the fountain's creation (I actually wasn't considering snowgrave when making that comment) but it's also a really weird route for Kris to make the fountain KNOWING we will do whatever we can to corrupt the people in it, even if they have an ulterior goal by being the knight.
Looking back at the ending with snowgrave in mind, maybe the more Kris levels up, the more they can resist us? I mean, I would assume "falselv" as it is stated in the code is important, maybe it's Deltarune's determination? Maybe by sealing fountains, Kris can permanently break the link between us, so they do it ASAP in both chapters?
What do you think of Queen's line "hell of a study session today"? Does it disprove Kris Knight? Also Jevil mentions the hand of the knight is drifting forward.
@@maila319 “A hell of a study session” is probably more of a joke. It’s not literal Queen probably knew they were going to study but that doesn’t mean they actually did. And also Jevils line doesn’t really debunk anything. It just saying that the Knight is slowly making itself known
@Delta58784 didn't ask for the debunk though
@@maila319 :/
why would birdley and noelle exit the fountain asleep -possibly implying that they had fallen asleep by the time the fountain was created- with their books and papers already lying on the table as well, if they were to have entered the same way as kris and susie ?
@@maxanimator9547 I’ve seen the theory that Ralsei put them to sleep. But also, we shouldn’t look too hard into it. It’s just a little detail
@@Delta58784details are rarely unintentional. even then, disregarding the books as an aesthetic detail, this does not explain the state birdley and noelle find themselves in once the fountain is sealed.
as for ralsei casting them to sleep... well first off, that would not be a theory, but an entire creation. not only is there no evidence in support of this idea, but this would imply that ralsei is able to materialise as well as exit a dark world ; which could work, but would then lead us into ralsei knight territory, thereby contradicting our initial point. the reason this would be a mandatory implication is that if one's state in a dark world affected that in a light one, then neither birdley nor noelle would have been asleep as you sealed the fountain, since they were -iirc, correct me if i'm wrong- not just moments prior.
the only exception to this being death, as there would be no soul to return to the lightner's light world body, perhaps ? otherwise, how would one explain birdley's alleged death in snowgrave ? unless a frozen soul were to be rendered incapacitated in their ability to travel between worlds, even as its current one were to be closed ?
lots of speculation, for sure, although little not contradicting or superceding kris knight theory.
I can't wait for Chapter 3 to finally prove whether Kris is the knight or not. During all my time making and watching theories there is nothing that I have found more annoying than the endless debates on whether the Cyber World Dark Fountain was made with Noelle and Berdly inside or not.
I dont think chapter 3-4 will confirm it. With the constant amount of times that the main boss hasn’t seen or can’t recognize the knight makes me assume that Tenna wont either. BlackChestnut makes some good points about why. I’d recommend watching their newest video
What if I'm the knight?
I always disliked the king dialoge arguments, mainly because king and knight meeting will break one of the few rules of dark worlds that we know, that lightners cannot exit the dark world without closing the fountain
I don’t think they *need* to close the fountain to leave, since in chapter 2 you can just exit it whenever (obviously they wouldn’t have known this in chapter 1). They only do it because it’s kinda their thing.
KRIS IS THE KNIGHT, ANGEL STRIKE ME DOWN IF I'M WRONG!
@@funnylittlecreature Thank you.
What a bunch of nerds.
The Knight is clearly the knight.
Calling it right now, your "discarded" creation could actually be the knight. 🙏
@@Nil-p4l I personally think that would be more of a chapter 7 secret boss because it fits with the discarded theme
My best point aganst Kris night theory is the following: Kris gained the knowledge of opening a dark fountain thanks to the Queen, and so he opened it in chapter 2. And i speculat that the reason chapter 3 and 4 are being released at the same time is because we will have to seel both Kris's fountain and the knight fountain.
Ooo, I like the idea of the chapters being released together because the fountains were made together/simultaneously/around the same time/you get it
But, we have seen clips that imply a chapter which is almost fully the Lightworld for the most part, I don’t remember if they confirmed what chapter is it but I think we do know it’s either chapter 4 or 5
But well, this doesn’t really mean/contradicts much
Could just like an intermission chapters for the characters and us to rest before the literal pre-finale chapter started (Yet, I feel like it could get a less happier reactions if it was unless chapter 5 is also released along chapter 6, since well, imagine having to wait for a single chapter just to it be a intermission chapter. And it being released alongside chapter 6 also doesn’t really fix it completely because we already would’ve had our intermission by the time both release, it’s like if your lunch break was at the start of the job/classes, wouldn’t really make sense as it isn’t a break, and that could take off the emotional bond we would fortify as we have the intermission ALONGSIDE the characters instead of before us then them)
Also, why do people say for sure that Kris only gained the knowledge after Queen? Like, if they were the knight that opened the chapter 1, it doesn’t mean that Queen just wouldn’t say the same thing anyway, as far as SHE knows, they don’t know
We can’t just assume what a characters does and does not know
Heck, Kris could very well or could not know how to draw, if we aren’t told specially told, we can’t know
I’ve seen people trying to respond “Well, if Kris knew they wouldn’t have helped defeating Queen” but what???? Do you guys think undercover cops are obligatory to say yes when you ask if they are a cop? “Why would they hide they are X when they are hiding that they are X”
I even theorize Snowgrave actually could be the route Kris takes if they had free will
@@CreatorProductionsOriginal I have one good point to back my statement. The snowgrave route.on a regular route after defeating queen you get the segment where she speaks to Noelle explaining how to do a dark fountain. Ok, cool. Snowgrave route, During the snowgrave route alot of things are skipped a good portion of cybercity, a portion of queens (now spamton) mansion. Even when Ralsei tried to speak to Kris alone that is skipped. We reach the queen, Noelle isnt there. But she still speaks to nobody. Explaining how to make a dark fountain. I beliee its because Tobyfox needs this moment for the story to proceed,. what reaosn woiuld he have to keep this scene when he skipped everything else, it would have even made more sense if she ust attacked them with the robot right away, or hell just was shocked about losing the mansion. But tobyfox still keeps this moment because it is required for Kris to learn to make a fountain for the story to proceed.Idk if you get what im saying. But when i first played that route it struck me as odd as this scene still being there withouth a reason. And plus. Could you laborate on him choosing to do snowgrave it would be interesting.
@@CreatorProductionsOriginal Do you, seriusly think that an entire chapter will be spent going around town? Its clearly because Toby doesnt wanna spoil the fourth chapter location and simply keeps it hidden since everyones speculating. Personaly i believe its gonna be the chuch. But i guess it would make sense to get a break before the finale, after all chapter 4 is exactly in the middle. So i wouldnt exclude your idea
@GrindingChicken yea, if it isn’t a break then it’s definitely the church
Since I remember that in some text in chapter 2 said that we had church tomorrow
And the thing of Kris choosing Weird route with free will? I don’t remember 💀
Undyne is the knight I think. She’s a knight in Undertale and she acts kinda sus cause I think she’s laughing at you for talking about a “Dark World” to make you think she doesn’t know about Dark Worlds but she does
lol, that'd be a fun AU
A point I never see being brought up is like
Do we know 100% that Noelle and Berdly got into the dark world at the same time?
Like, what if Kris was in the closet, opened the fountain while Berdly sleeper inside, then Noelle went to the library and got sucked it?
As a fellow Kris knight truther, I must sadly disprove this theory😔. Berdly was in class in chapter 2 before going to the dark world. Unless Kris somehow snuck out of the classroom while they were supposed to be sleeping after class (while Alphys was watching and Susie was waiting in the hallway), there just wouldn't have been any time for Kris to do that. I'm pretty sure Kris opened the fountain the previous night, and people are just blowing certain evidence out of proportion. I heard someone say that Ralsei mightve used pacify before Kris sealed the fountain to put Noelle and Berdly to sleep to help convince them that it was all a dream. I mean, I think Berdly was 100% sure it WASNT a dream until he woke up from being asleep, where he was like "shoot I guess it HAD to have been a dream"
nubert is the knight
@@martinaisehobocop true
@@Delta58784 "My man!"
Im sure it would be done well if Toby went that way but I don’t find the idea of Kris knight super interesting right now because we already have all those questions about Kris’ motivations without him for sure being the knight. Like we are already asking the “why would he risk the roaring to make a fountain” those questions are already there with the end of chapter two and will therefore be there even if he’s not the knight. Him not being the knight seems more interesting right now because we have the questions of Kris’ motivation with the ending of chapter two AND the mystery of the knight’s identity and their goal
(Also not to be that guy no hate but IF it was a red herring, “look at this it’s so obvious!” is exactly what a red herring is supposed to make you think 😭)
Yet it turns from "Kris is risking the Roaring but why?" To "Kris is risking the roaring as the Knight AFTER seeing some awful stuff in the Snowgrave route and the like"
To me, no matter who the Knight is, they'll all have cookie cutter reasons for doing so, like "Oh the true mastermind is Gaster", or "I wanted friends", or "I didn't know it was dangerous", but...
With Kris it asks questions about when they started doing it, or if Kris IS the Knight, how they got that power in the first place because this means they're likely the only one to have such power (Ralsei might not even know if Berdly could do it but didn't want to risk it), and sure we know something happened to them in the past which might have given them the soul, but now we KNOW it had some sort of connection to Gaster or something else because not only did it give them the red soul, it likely made them become stringed up in being the Knight...
Any other Knight candidate it becomes "Oh, well they PROBABLY met with Gaster or smth and went crazy like the superbosses" but with Kris it makes their motives and even more pressing question.
It ACTUALLY opens up more questions and opens up existing ones further in my opinion.
Just because the other options are also fun to theorize about and have their own questions does not mean that Kris Knight is not a valid high tier theory on who the Knight is.
What if Kris took our original avatar, and is using his original body as way to keep tabs on us. That means we are not fighting Kris but the remnants of their will. Until moments where is backdoors back in to override us.
Well
Really liked this video, you presented interesting ideas! Although I think Toby Fox is going to surprise us with something different just to troll us :P
If it isn’t Kris then I would at least like it to be someone we haven’t seen. A mystery character
Finally someone who understands Kris is the knight.
Or at least... their body is.
I'm personally of the belief that the red soul is Kris and as such there is something else pulling the strings but that's just me.
I think Kris isn't the night because Kris is short and the knight is tall
@ellotheearthling there’s no real evidence the knight is tall. The only real evidence is queens like that says “the knights long arm..” or whatever she says
@@Delta58784 Oh yeah that's what I meant I forgot, it was said that Kris has short arms I think
@ in that case, long arm can also mean “the far reaching power” basically the knight has a vast control over the world which would imply the knight is definitely a lightner.
I think everyone is right. Kris is and is not the knight. There are two knights in chess after all. He can be a knight but not necessarily the roaring knight.
1) kris goes by they/them
2) chess theory wasn't confirmed yet so it cant be used as an evidence
Chess theory isnt confirmed (probably isn’t because of Tenna who doesn’t seem to be a rook or a bishop) but yes, that’s a great point. Two knights could explain a lot but honestly I feel like one knight makes more sense
@@viput69 Who cares about theythem omg
So the reason i dont think kris is the knight is very simple. Kris doesnt want to hurt people. The knight does. The knight wanted to kill us. The knight to me is why king is the way he is and why king even fits us to begin with. The knight is cold manipulative and cruel also. I believe snowgrave is supposed to be a perfect mirror of The Knight
@@thenobody7509 it’s never shown that the knight wants to hurt people. Being the knight doesn’t mean you want to cause the roaring or hurt people.
@Delta58784 king directly states "by the knights will I will shatter your heart to pieces." The knights will is to kill Us. King is a pawn to the knight
@@thenobody7509 Fair enough but my point in video on that is that King and Queen act the way they do because of 1: the fountain 2: because they assumed what the knight wants based on their actions. King assumes the knight wants to kill them (but Seam also says that the reason the king wants to kill them is because king has a vendetta against lightners cause of their betrayal to the card kingdom so long ago. 3: by the knights will (which I think) could possibly mean “because the knight gave me life, I will use it to kill you”
@@Delta58784 I disagree with the king part. Because it is said that the Knight put king into power and helped king throw the other kings in prison. Meaning, they've been face to face with each other and have spoken. So when King says "by the knights will." It is extremely likely he isnt mistaken.
@ My argument to that is that the knight could have manipulated the light world to cause those events. If Kris has experience in darkworlds prior to the events of Deltarune we could assume they know how they work. Kris could have easily moved the playing cards to manipulate the darkworld. Put the king card at the top of the castle and the others at the bottom. The darkworld would have to make an explanation for what happened so that’s what it came up with
I feel like Kris is too obvious too be the knight
If the knight is a single person, then that means, since Gerson wrote books inspired by dreams he had (so dark world he visited), that Kris is older than Alvin 🫥...
Also, it disproves Alvin as the knight. So yeah, there being many knights would make much sense.
@@omniscientomnipresent5500 Why could his dreams not just be.. dreams? Do they have to be darkworlds?
@Delta58784 dark worlds are referred to as dreams more than once. I remember by Susie in chapter 1, by Susie to Noelle in chapter 2 in her room, by Berdly, Noelle and Susie after exiting the dark world in chapter 2 and by Noelle in the hospital in chapter 2. Not sure there's even an instance of dream not being referring to dark worlds. There's also Alice in wonderland imagery in the dark worlds like the card themed characters in chapter 1, the evil queen, the teacups and cheshire cat smile appearing in the Neo body room and in this story it's a dream. Toby is almost aggressively trying to make us see the connection without saying it directly. Furthermore, goes without saying that Gerson is a story writer and there's that fictional make-believe aspect the dark worlds have.