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- Опубліковано 10 гру 2015
- Inside the Siglent SDM3055 5.5 digit bench multimeter
And check out UI similarities with the Keysight 34461A
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The fact that they copy the Agilent UI is a REALLY GOOD THING. I don't want to be forced to learn half a library's worth of copyrighted wank terminology and menu layouts every time I switch brands.
Stop hating on Lelon, installed one last week and it still works!
+TheAmmoniacal
last week
how about year?
+שי מזור He's taking the piss!
Haha
+TheAmmoniacal
It doesn't count unless you turn on the power!
+TheAmmoniacal
lmao
Keep the teardowns coming. Love them.
It will never be said that you are not brutally honest which is one of the reason I watch your videos ! I am what I would consider myself to be a minor hobbyist and I feel that I learn so much from you. I really think something that defines you as a " Hell of a guy" is your videos on your 2nd channel with your son. You take the time to also be a dad and it shows in him. Thanks for making your videos !
6:49: looks like the whole sheetmetal part is punched in one step and it can be used on both sides even if the fan cutout on the one side seems useless. They saved a lot of Yuans in doing so!
That second fuse is in series with the one on the rear panel. It had a 12 amp rating in my unit, where the fuse on the back was 10 amps. It's probably there to prevent someone from putting a large fuse in the rear panel holder and then blowing up their meter.
I've been waiting for this one, thanks Dave!
LOL cheap ass fan? Thats a top end Delta fan.... You seem to be prejudice towards the brand in the way you start the review. Wish they used decent caps though... Front end relays look great so it seems odd they would cheap out on the caps.
+electricsnut Yolo, maybe Dave had a bit of pre justice because this scope is a blatant ripoff of a Agilent.
+jak p (skiguy09) Yolo, I see what you did there
+jak p (skiguy09) If you want Agilent, you buy Agilent. If you want cheap, you buy a Chinese copy of a better brand with efforts made to reduce cost. There is no middle ground. I think they did a decent job for the price, I would have liked to see Japanese caps but then again maybe I am be prejudice towards Chinese caps, its entirely possible they will be good quality. Rust on laser cut edges? Common seriously.... exposed metal will rust just with humidity and its very hard to prevent and would increase unit cost for something that has no effect on the actual performance on the unit
So you buy cheap hardware knowing that they ripped off someones design? Sounds quite dishonest.
+electricsnut What turned me off was the horrible soldering. They have some issues with their thermal profile, the only excuse for that poor of a job is if this is a very early production unit. Notice the inconsistency of the joints, varying amounts of solder and evidence of components not whetting properly (crooked, quite a few passives haven't self-centered). I haven't been impressed with any of the Siglent gear, they're competing for the same market as Rigol but have lowered the quality without lowering the price. For 600 I'd rather have a good 5.5 digit handheld, less features but much higher quality. I would excuse the poor construction on something cheaper, but for that much money at least get the board soldered properly.
Thumbs up for demonstration of dual display mode.
I really enjoy watching your videos Dave! You're one awesome bloke
May I point out, here in Australia April 2024, the cost of the 34661 meter in the above comparison is *$2100* and that makes the Siglent a bargain.
It´s always nice to see Dave´s doing a teardown....! You could also tear down a MicroWave oven and i would be watching it...;)
Hi DaveDoes it have a bar meter like the Agilent (mine has Agilent written on it). If so is it centre zero like it should be unlike the Agilent?
i like the use of the ADUM2401 for the isolation ... nice high speed transformer coupled isolator ... its not cheap either!
Dave, that is not a cheap-ass fan, that is a proper delta fan, very reputable brand.
+tHaH4x0r Ok, I missed that.
Good teardown. No problem that you did a lot of Sigilent related topics recently. Obviously you got them for free from the company - but hey, I didn't feel like you were all were all in favour of them. Great you had the chance to interwiev the CEO.
The “extension” card slot on the back of the SDM3550A is for an optional SC1016 16 channel input scanner card. That is pretty nice if you want a system volt meter for an automated test rack without having to devote extra space to a separate multiplexer box.
I believe if you want GPIB capability, there is a USB dongle with the not surprising part number USB-GPIB that is compatible with the SDM3055A.
A closer competitor is the Keysight EDU34450A 5.5 digit bench multimeter. Of course the EDU34450A did not exist when this video was made. The Keysight is in a clunky digital oscilloscope packing format and it costs about 50% more than the SDM3550A. The construction quality of the Keysight unit is better (no spade lug connectors), so you do get something for the extra expense. Still, I would not throw the SDM3550A off my bench if one were to mysteriously materialize.
The digital board and major layout looks identical to another Siglent test gear tear down you did before which is the "Siglent SDG2122X Arb Generator in EEVblog #805". You are right on what you said in that video on "They are using same digital board for different equipments" Perhaps similar reason also explains why they had two fan installation holes and they decided squeeze the screen cable like that since the metal work might also be the same or similar in many of their designs and they have to come out with a universal metal work design with lots of trade-offs to save the cost.
+Chenxi Yang That is exactly right. I think it is a fine solution and I like the look and the construction. Sure, there is a tiny bit of "rust" but as long as it does not spread, it doesn't matter. It is better than plastic.
I think of the unused "fan hole" as a ventilation hole. Air has to get in somehow, and it makes sense that it would be located opposite to the fan. The grid of small holes in the partition is used to regulate air flow. Nothing wrong with that.
Please help me. Which desktop multimeter is better or has better processing ??? Siglent SDM3065X or Rigol DM3068?? Which would you recommend?
is this mains isolated ? ,can we measure the mains voltage or current directly ?
Hey Dave, do you film these videos all in one while pausing to change camera angles then split them up in editing, or film individual recordings? Thanks.
Very nice teardown, thanks !
I think they did an OK job designing this. I don't like the fan thhough. Better heat sinking would have done the job. However, the "ADC circuit magic" we know from Agilent/Keysight and Fluke is missing. I am sure that they change the design drastically once they figure out how to built a better one for the same price. But that's going to take a while.
Having had that great interview with Eric from Siglent, I hope they pay attention to your reviews of their products
+fleuroman Great interview? I couldn't understand a single word the guy said. waste of 40 minutes...
+AUSSIE RANTS i di understaind one: yoloooo :)
ElectronicMarine
LOL!!! It was ridiculous. Like their crap products. Even Dave tears them down to review and then tears Siglent a new arsehole. What is he doing???? Of course it will be junk for US$500-600. A decent supply is more like 2K upwards....
I didnt say Eric was great, but his chinglish wasnt that bad... :/ at 600us is this aimed at hobbiest, because its about 400us overpriced if so, but my point was that Siglent should listen to critique and act on, rather than being offended by it...
Thank you for the video review. I was about to purchase the SDM3055 as a birthday present for myself. Now I'm not sure I should. I am a hobbyist, I work on stereos from the '70s and 80,s, Also I work on old test equipment, and antique radios. What bench meter would you recommend in the same price range? Thanks in advance!
Teardowns are my favorite.
Would be cool to see a how Rigol DM3058 (Rigol's 5.5 digit) stands in comparison.
I know this wasn't a review, but the one question that stick out with me is......Are the banana jack properly spaced unlike on the power supply tear down, and do they make good contact? That was disappointing to see that on the power supply.
Dave, you forgot the Kensington lock at the back!!! :)
Did Eric give you a crate of Siglent gear for free?
+TheAmmoniacal It would want to be free Yolo. Awful nasty gear.
Cheap ass fan? LOL That's Delta Fan! I have 15 years old Deltas and the still run like the day they were made! Never even oiled them!
+Ventsislav Simonov This one is different from the old one mate, here I buy it for like 1/2 U.S dollar..... and it works for shorter time than what you mentioned.
+Ventsislav Simonov He calls everything a cheap ass.
+Mohammed Fawaz you are of course absolutely right! I'm looking at the Sunon price list and for 80mm DC fan they have prices ranging form $1.50 to as high as $35 a piece. Anyways "cheap ass" fans don't usually come with 6 page datasheets :D
partner.delta-corp.com/Products/FANUploads/Specification/AFB0612LC%28REV00%29.pdf
+Ventsislav Simonov Quality fans don´t use ball bearings.
*****
They use a bass bushing, not a plastic one.
Great teardown. I usually say the same thing, why did they do this, or why did they do that, but usually there is a reason. Could be a last minute design change, or something they just failed to realize. No one is perfect. :-)
after you take off the two screws in the back, it seems like you could just slide it out the front without cutting the cal sticker... fail?
Threaded studs are for the optional attachment :)
It's kinda confusing to see that they have an EM shield between the transformer and the main board, but at the same time, there is a fan, something that is switching a coil and generates a changing magnetic field right above the processor
+Krisztián Szirtes The shielding might be a bit of an afterthought too, with that long ribbon cable having lots of surface area to absorb interference.
+Krisztián Szirtes I personally think the chassis design may be from some other product?
+electricsnut Thought about that one too. That could explain why the other side had a fan slot. It could be a standard case that is used for multiple products with the absolute least to do. See: no cutout for the ribbon cable.
same digitalboard as the sdg2122x?
4:50 We've seen this cutting edge rust on several brands throughout the eevblog's, not just a siglent thing!
What's a delta, sigma ADC? I mean what's the difference between a regular ADC?
Delta's are not cheap ass fans....
+Joe Toney IKR even their cheap $10-ish fans are high quality, some are even scary powerful when you run them full speed.
You surely know better than a 30 year electric industry professional
+SaltLord he is not a power electronics engineer, he does FPGA and analog. Delta make good fans, used hundreds of them in products at work, never had issues.
+SaltLord if he was good he'd still be doing it
+flahr1 How the hell would you know? Maybe he wanted to pursue a totally different career path and still remain in the engineer field.
i think the display cable is on that side to avoid going over the analog/frontend part, i kind of like the two boards, you can reuse the processor with another frontend... i hate the cables that hang around like this from the front pannel, it wold be nicer at liest shielded cables... i still prefer the rigol over this one tough and still miss the hp :)
If you have one of these - fix the safety ground connection. Maybe put a screw through it...but it needs a solid connection.
Why does these cost more than a Siglent 200mhz scope?
Beginning of the video... "looks and feels like a reasonable quality meter..." a few minutes later... "the first thing you notice about this is the cheap quality and feel of the metal..." I think Dave is great and all, but he usually turns his nose up at "cheaper" (cheaper in quotes because $600 for a Siglent bench DMM isn't cheap to me or a lot of others I'm sure) alternatives to the industry leaders. While I appreciate an honest opinion, try to keep in mind that some of us have a limited budget and can't afford a Keysight or Agilent and we would like to hear more positives rather than negatives about the "cheaper" brands.
looks like both sides were punched out on the same machine, hence the dual fan cutouts.
CPU is from the same family as the Beagle Bone Black. The '52 lacks the 3D graphics GPU, the '54 has it.
I spotted the JTAG interface, wonder if there is a serial port in there to hook up to u-boot (needed if you want to hack the OS).
Dave any news on new Keysight handheld DMMs?
Also are you finally getting HIOKI multimeter reviewed? Im wondering if it can beat FLUKE in built quality...
+sepertude They courier lot them. Was supposed to get replacements but haven't heard anything.
Dave not sure what purpose a LAN or GPIB can be used for? Any answer?
Remote control and automation. Google is your friend :)
I have question. Forget about the brand of caps, does anyone know the MTBF on this equipment?
Rob
+mosfet500 I'd guess NOT 5,000 hours. ;-)
+AUSSIE RANTS
I think unstressed caps were generous over tolerances are designed into a device can last quite a long time. The specs may not hold up but the instrument itself may be able to run for years. It's when you get to switching supplies and start pushing currents or even linear supplies that cut max working voltage corners, or the worst putting caps next to heatsinks, that bring on failures. In relatively bland apps caps can last quite long.
Rob
+InXLsisDeo
I see that as reasonable for equipment in this price range. My objections are more with respect to functionality.
As I pointed out on the EEVblog, its not an Aglient (Keysight) 34461. However- Thanks Dave for pointing out the flaws and weak points in the design. The "Siglent Rust (TM)" in the cases of their test equipment is a little disturbing, but should not be a purchase breaker at its price. It was built at a price point, which pushes the expectation bar in "home\hobby\student" grade test equipment. Under professional expectations and commercial use... yeaa.. Its probably best to leave it at home.
Bernard - that is hitting the nail on the head. Its a hobby level piece of equipment. I am buying one for one reason only - everything else in this price point has a much smaller screen, and I very much like the clarity and layout of the screen. It may be a ripoff of the Agilent/Keysight design, but there is little difference in UI layout on most of these devices. I have a Rigol scope that looks like many other scopes, and a Siglent FG that looks like a lot of others as well. Maybe not identical, but you get my point.
Dave - I have watched a few of your videos now, and one thing seems very apparent to me.; you have some serious preconceptions and bias about products. I picked that up after watching just a couple of videos. I am sure you provide a great service doing this but you wear your opinions on your sleeve and it invalidates your reviews.
It can be the camera, but the large yellow characters on the screen are a easier to read compared to the Agilent because of the darker background.
Is it possible the display cable was placed on the transformer side of the divider for noise reasons?
+Damon Stewart Very good. I imagine that ribbon is carrying digital logic signals. Putting it on the power supply side may seem odd, but it's a hell of a lot better than running it by the analogue front end.
+pillsnotbills Could have put it against the metal on the analog side, would have worked just as well.
You can keep this one Yolo.
I don't understand why they use a multi-input ADC and then use a relay instead of switching between the inputs with that.
I miss the dumpster dive repair videos :(
The fan brand used here (Delta) is a world top BLDC fan brand.
10:53 They have choosen the rather resonably prices precision resitor network. The layout can take the IRC 1987 series DIP versions www.ttelectronicsresistors.com/search/results.php?id=28889 as well as the BGA version CH8A www.ttelectronicsresistors.com/datasheets/CHC%20Precision.pdf or maybe some custom version, which are easy to get even in small quantities. These are not the super high end ones. VIshay SMNZ are much more precise and come in SO-8. However, with almost €50 for the custom Vishay version they don't come cheap.
I see they have good taste, they bought the 344xxA series front panel for their meter! That's probably why it costs more! Originality anyone?
Rob
yolo, I spotted another difference, the USB connector is reversed compared to Agilent
Looks much better than the power supply, clearly different team worked on this one.
The extra fan hole just looks like it's designed to be cut on the same punch as the opposite side
At least it has more contrast and easier to read UI.
Hate those white letters on white-blue gradient buttons like on Agilent here.
On the other hand, smaller fonts used for stats.
Dave, you should do a siglent give away.. !! that would be great.
This man puts me to sleep, every time.
May I ask where did you get your experience and knowledge from? I'm final year engineering student and you amazed me how you trace it so easily
+Mohammed Fawaz Been doing electronics for 35 years. 25 years professionally in the industry. You learn a few things after all that time.
+EEVblog Wow nice man , so is it normal for new graduates to find it hard to trace something like this ?
On the inside it looks 3/4 similar with Owon XDM3055. I did some teardown photos and shared them on eevblog forum. Just search on google "eevblog owon bench multimeter?" if you are courious to see them. The price for that unit is also about 600$, but I think it's not worth it..
Somewhat surprised to see a National Semiconductor chip behind the BNCs.
The case looks a little bit like an rigol. The edge protectors and the feet at the back end remind me of the rigol instuments in that formfactor. Only the front panel looks totaly difrent. It depends on what you like or hate more, lots of diffrent fonts and wierd buttons or a very flat and boring front panel.
13:17 "And I was right. But I was always gonna be right ..." - Dave Jones 2015-12-12 =P
Is the Siglent "rust" possibly be due to the process of cutting the metal, i.e., burn marks from laser cutting perhaps?
+SaturnV2000 Or perhaps they deburr the edges of the metal and forget to seal it with something.
+SaturnV2000 It looks like they stamp cut per-treated steel. The sheer edges will not have the protective coating.
its perfect for testing 3n3055's
at 10:36 you mention the bodge resistor connected to a "PTC", what's a PTC?
+bsamuels453 Resettable fuse.
+bsamuels453 Positive Temperature Coefficient resistor. Goes high resistance if overloaded ;)
4:50 .. Dave, _you're_ full of rust! XD
Hey Dave, if you don't want the "cheap ass power supply" give it to me, I'll take it! 👍😆
I had to throw away loads of PC power supplies at work because of blown out Lelon and CapXon (or is it CapXion?) capacitors. Also other obscure brand names I can't remember. Sombody only spent 23 EUR on a 450W PSU. Bad idea. Stuff like that never lasts the average lifetime of the rest of the PC.
Hi Dave,
I just wanna say that turning on the device before tear down is better. Because it provides first impression about the device we can make some assumptions about it. So it will increase efficency of your videos.
it is a good motto "Dont turn it on, take it apart" but i guess other way is more exciting for viewers.
Elektronik Uygulamalar hmm you are propperly correct. New slogan could be: "Turn it on, then there it down" ? :-)
Dave, out of curiosity, have you stayed in touch with the Siglent CEO after his visit? I'm curious if he would contact you after a review like this to respond to some of the criticism of the product (criticism that is very much justified). The Keysight look-alike UI and the improper earth ground connection really demand a response.
+dwDragon88 He emailed me after he got back, so we are keeping in touch.
Looks like a nice bench meter to me, accurate enough for most users.
Dave, your just too picky, its a usable bench meter :-)
+zx8401ztv Did I say it wasn't a usable bench meter? No, I didn't.
+EEVblog I'm sure it's "usable" but what is that got to do with LIFETIME usage????? Trademark rust??? You bag the crap out of it. Gee dave.
+EEVblog Dave, i think your brilliant at electronics, but you gripe about everything, the meter you just tore down was well made (for the money), but you cant help moaning about how imperfect it is.
Please please have a more open mind for 2016.
zx8401ztv
Ditto.
4:35 FAIL. Look how close the transformer and that fan hole are. Now you probably know why they didn't install it there :) And I suspect they wanted to put a switching power supply there but they changed their mind somhere in the middle of design process.
19:33 Pretty, little and labeled JTAG connector. That might become useful to someone.
Great Delta fan.......
Please tear down a GameCube some time. Interested in what you have to say about it. Personally I think it is a brilliant piece of hardware engineering.
What's the purpose of a "guard trace"?
+SaturnV2000 Helps with electrical isolation of near by signal leakage.
That components out of alignment are making me crazy.
check the spade lug earth connection, is that even legal in Aus?
+Nitris I don't know the regulations off-hand. I have a niggling feeling it might not be.
EEVblog I would also say it was not legal. I should now the reg myself (electrical contractor). But my books out in the ute and I'm feeling lazy.
+Nitris You can use spade connectors on the input side so I don't see why it would be an issue on the chassis side? Would be interesting to know though...
electricsnut All earths should be under screw or soldered so they cant vibrate off and maintain a nice low resistance connection. You want the metal case of any 240V device to have a nice solid earth, unless its a double insulated device which this one is not.
But I see what your saying. The lead that powers the multimeter uses the same connection as spade lugs. When u plug the 10A 240V cord into the GPO the earth is made first as the pin is longer then the active and neutral pins. If its not pluged in right there will be no power going to the device so its safe. Of opposed to the earth inside the device coming off the frame you would never know till its too late.
+Nitris What concerns me more is that the pin isn't long enough, so the locking mechanism that spade lugs have can't even engage 6:26
no Shake-Proof washer on the earth-lead? after watching hundreds of these teardowns by Dave, now I know why he always searches for the shake proof washers, because of stuff like this where it is missing for no reason.
Enough equipment taredowns!
Gee - - a Chinese company copied another companies design - how unheard of!
That isn't a cheap fan! It's a Delta. They may be loud, but they last.
I agree with you. They really last, at least the double ball versions...
hi, dave!!!!
The numbers on the display of the cheaper device are better to read because of the darker backround. And i cant see, why lelon should be less good than other companies. There are always starting new players.
is it weird that i realy like those PC Fans?
I would pay extra for 34465A instead.
what abaut dumbster diving
+Tim Tolar Yeah that used to be interesting. Now it's taking apart Chinese CRAP that cost $100.00 to make and complaining about everything?????? AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe some day you can do a proper teardown and remove the protective film on the LCD display. Do you leave it on all of your recent teardown gear just to bug your viewers? :)
+Glen Slick What do you think? :-P
+Glen Slick I cut the red tag on my 3055 and left it on, free screen protector :P
+Pieh0 that's probably the worst thing I read since a long time!
robertpk
:P
nice
I
thats so cute!
David Jones THE BEST!!!!
why always ½-digit?
+tubelos23 Just how the A/D converters work and the maximum "count". This meter being 240,000 count, it can display all 6 digits as long as the first two are < 24. Above this it must change scales and you are back to 5 digits. So it can display 240.000, add a few more counts and it will display 0240.01. The nature of digital converts are not base 10, so we end up with odd number of counts.
540€ here in Germany for the 3055, meh. If you are used to buy German gear that is like a bargain but I do not like the current benchtop mm market. This one is "okay", the Agilent is pretty pricey is runs windows, the Rigol has a crap small display for more money.
If they are going to copy the Agilent user interface, they could have at least done a good job of it.
+rocketman221projects Its actually better than it appears on camera.
funny my ex mother-in-law used to call me Davey Jones
I don't agree it's built down to a price. Indeed in my opinion is has way too much digital power for the low performance device it is. DDR3 1 gigabit of ram?? why. 1GHz ARM, and FPGA... you could run a complex 3D computer game on it.
It could and should have been a single board design, about 1/4 the size and no mains trafo. If you are good maybe 1/10 the size.
Also the Siglent display is more legible. Better font, better contrast.
SiglentRust™
at least we know that you cant buy dave given him free gears.
+Ge Trolli Any company that sends him gear to tear down has brass balls. ;)
+strangersound yolo