It's not as though he didn't write reams of great music during those 14 years. He just felt he hadn't the right to assemble 90 musicians and several thousand listeners until he had it just right.
I’ve spent the past year of my life (in my undergrad) studying Brahms. Specifically his 4 symphonies. I’ve conducted all but the 2nd, and I have fallen in love with his writing. In my graduate degree, I will study orchestral conducting and I will spend the rest of my life studying this beautiful music. Thank you, EJPF
E. J. P. F. Let me wish you the very best in your studies, degrees and career choices. May you be Blessed Happy Healthy and Serene. Kindest regards, Gregg Oreo long Beach Ca Etats Unis Happy days of Celebration to you and your family. Gregg Oreo long Beach Ca Etats Unis
Can you please give me some insight on how you study music? Like what are the nuances that you look for when studying a particular score or a music piece?
It was Brahms who actually closed the door behind and ended Beethoven's era, opening the road for the rest of composers to become who they were in their music. For example, Mahler.
Ironically, Malher inserted voices in his symphonies, which has not been done by any other romantic composer while keeping the appellation of symphony (Berlioz, Mendelsohn, Liszt). Seems that Mahler is "born" from Beethoven and Wagner.
@@richardtessier9436 Ehm, what about Mendelssohn's "Lobgesang" symphony and Liszt's "Faust" Symphony, both with choral movements? No, Mahler wasn't the first since Beethoven to use voices in his Symphonies.
@@hape3862 I always thought that the Faust symphony was a symphonic poem! As for Mendelssohn, I totally stand corrected! Nice to know. In my defense, that would be only two symphonies in the span of almost 100 years...
Born into a blue-collar family, I was forced to learn the accordion while others played the guitar. I only learned popular songs so my knowledge of orchestral music was practically nil. I took a music theory class in high school in. 1972, but we never really discussed classical music and hardly listened to it. I saw a photo of a young Brahms in my textbook. He had long hair so I thought he might be cool (lol). I went to the record store where I bought lots of rock albums and found Brahm's Symphony #1 in C minor. I didn't really get it, but kept listening. I now agree with assessment of Von Bulow; it's easily on par with Beethoven best work and could have been his "10th." There is so much there! Thanks for this, I enjoyed it!
Clearly, you've not been on the receiving end of the mockery, jokes and so on that I got! Whenever I played accordion (when one was available), I used it for comedy as much as anything...Weird Al, anyone? LOL. My favorite Gary Larson comics (The Far Side) involved music; he was a musician too. He had one that was split into two panels. On top it had someone who had died and angels said, "Welcome to Heaven, here is your harp." On the bottom you can guess what it had, "Welcome to hell, here is your accordion." Not too many hit songs with the accordion... but I conced, it has its place. Two votes? Not exactly overwhelming... haha
That's a great story. Ya I didn't get the first symphony at all. Just 45 minutes of playing notes. Took about 3 listens to hear the long drawn out melodies. Id say its unmatched. The emotion from the first movement at least.
Agreed on each point. Nothing beats his solo and chamber music for me. Especially his late works--ops. 116-119, the clarinet sonatas, the clarinet trio, the clarinet quintet. Academically complex and absolute masterpieces of craft, but you'd never know it by the aching, autumnal beauty.
My wife and I both consider the 1st to be the highest attainment in music. And his Violin concerto is #1 in the Violin repertoire. I've yet to figure out his Piano works.
Yes - Brahm's first sonata is like Beethoven's 7th Sonata or 18th Sonata - a huge work full of dynamism, 4 solid movements, a classic of the form just full of energy. I prefer it to his 2nd and 3rd Sonatas, based on pure 'Listen up!' announcement and self-confidence.
I have been an opera singer for 26 year and it is no coincidence that Brahms is my favourite composer, never having written an opera. I enjoyed the video and send thanks from Weimar.
This is my favorite composer so it was great to see this video. Thank you Brahms' larger works are great, but where I think he really shines is in his solo and chamber works. The Clarinet Sonatas are masterpieces, as are the Clarinet Trio and Clarinet Quintet. Both cello sonatas, his violin sonatas, all of his late piano solo music--there's just nothing but great pieces in this output. Also, if anyone wants to get this type of content on Brahms in greater depth, Jan Swafford wrote a great biography.
This channel is just brilliant! Its so good to see someone making an effort to make classical music more understandable and accessible! Gonna have a listen to Brahms' first with all this in mind! Thanks a bunch 😊
if Brahms wanted to write great melodies he could, I think his most famous and accessible works attest to that. but that's not what he was interested in. a lot of what Brahms was interested in followed in the footsteps of late Schumann, who was experimenting with thematic fragmentation and recombination within the framework of larger forms. the interest in his music mainly lies in the formal and harmonic tension and buildup he generates, rather than any "great theme" he wanted to impress upon his listeners. a performer who tries to mine Brahms for a catchy/attractive melody will miss the mark in his playing as much as a listener who tries to listen to Brahms for the same. Thematic fragmentation being akin to elements. And a composer is a chemist who creates "reactions" by combining things together
I'd like to understand music the way you do. What has been your learning path? Of course listening to music but as much as I listen, I just don't get it.
@@chedagoz7145 it just takes time man. You gotta train the ear and the brain to follow the various melodic and harmonic lines, but it comes in spontaneously after a while (especially if you play an instrument)
@Vox Daze Tchaikovsky and Brahms both were not impressed with each others music. Brahms thought Tchaikovsky was way too emotionally indulgent. Vulgar. He preferred more subtle means of expression. Brahms' music is highly distilled to express subtle combinations of emotion whereas Tchaikovsky had his heart on his sleeve. Both were great composers. Nobody could write melodies like Tchaikovsky. Brahms achieved the sublime through more sophisticated means.
Great!!! Took me a while to warm up to Brahms, I didn’t get it at first. Now I can’t get enough. No matter how many times I hear the 1st movement of the 2nd symphony, it never gets old.
Brahms' 1st symphony is the first work by him I ever listened, and I was most thrilled when I first recognized the motivic relation between the opening of the 4th movement and its "triumphal" development. Since then, I fell in love with Brahms' music. This video opens a door to a huge world of exploring and analyzing Brahms from this "interwoven motives" point of view, so thanks a lot!
Words are not adequate to express my appreciation and thanks for the commendable job that this channel is doing for making us understand the vast expanse of the beautiful universe of western classical music. Great job. Carry on. Want more on Brahms , Chopin and also on all the all-time great composers.
You need to follow Richard Atkinson! He just did seperate videos on each movement of the first symphony. Each movement gets its own video. Dude puts in the work. He said he plans on doing all 16.
Wagner is my favorite composer. His influence is incalculable. But Brahms is an undoubted genius. His harmonic innovation and craft are works of the highest order. His third symphony simply floors me with every listen.
His third is my favorite work of art by anyone in any medium. I've been in love with it for over 60 years. No composer rewards repeated listening like Brahms.
My favorite instruction from a conductor was that Brahms first symphony has to start as if the music has always been there, and we are only just now noticing it.
It is worth noting that during this period orchestras were getting large, more orchestras were being created, musicianship was improving and…yes…bigger and better venues were being funded and constructed. Beethoven really had to hustle to get his music performed, even in Vienna and the performance quality was probably not up to par with its technical demands. The improved environment for orchestral music may have been due in part to the industrial revolution. Similar paradigm changes took place years later with the advent of recorded music and radio. It is humbling to think that these phenomenal artists probably only heard their symphonic works a mere handful of times. Those of us born into the age of recorded music are unbelievably fortunate.
One can only imagine how appreciative the musical giants would be of your enthusiasm, commitment, and passion. I may not be a giant, but I am certainly thankful.
Bruh, the universe is weird. I started understanding Brahms like a month ago and then now that I'm quite obsessed with some of his works and trying to learn an intermezzo you post this.
@@Lordran__ Liszt is extremely difficult and challenging music for the beginner but his harmonic experimentation was extraordinary and revolutionary. My favourite compositions of his are the Années de Pèlerinage and his piano sonata.
@@p-y8210 My introduction to the Années was with Alfred Brendel's performance of Les jeux d'eau à la Villa d'Este (I think from 1980 on Decca) and it's still a favourite. Claudio Arrau's is also excellent. Other highly rated interpretations of the Années are by: Lazar Berman (1977, I think), Jeno Jando (Naxos, 1980s), and Jorge Bolet. For modern recordings, I love Stephen Hough. Cedric Tiberghien received rave reviews for his release in February 2019 of a number of Liszt's works but only the third year of the Années was included. I haven't heard Tiberghien so I can't say personally, only that his album was highly rated in the BBC Music Magazine. For me, listening to Liszt, and especially the Années and the Harmonies poétiques et religieuses, is about whoever can best take you in to a meditative state. Liszt was a very spiritual composer and, for me, the two interpreters who can capture Liszt on both the spiritual and meditative levels are Arrau and Brendel. But other listeners will undoubtedly have other views. I hope that helps. Best wishes. Tony
I find most of his music, especially his orchestral output, academic and pedantic. His chamber music, such as the clarinet quintet and the piano trios are heavenly.
His 1st piano concerto is anything but academic (as the main feature that comes to my mind). But I admit there is something else going on in interpreting his music. That 1st Piano concerto is very often played as a pedantic academic monstrosity by many virtuosi. Thanks to Grimaud, in my case, I could finally connect the dots between the concerto and the turbulent moments in his life depicted in movies and biographies. My fear is that other symphonies that are recorded are suffering the same destiny.
I'm going to hear 1st and 2nd live this weekend! Can't wait. I've played them both, and they're each among my favorite pieces to play (double bass). The writing lays so well in the hand.
Yes, it took Brahms 20 years to finish his first symphony. What I find even more remarkable is that the following 3 symphonies are arguably even better than the first. The fourth symphony is an absolute masterpiece, equaled only by his second piano concerto...the final conclusion of a man dedicated to music entirely...
"Brahms had an early fascination with techniques of ancient music." And he did audacious things with them! Composing a passacaglia for the last movement of his 4th symphony is a little like choreographing the final battle scene in "Avengers: Endgame" as a 20 minute Lindy Hop.
Apparently Brahms fell asleep when he first heard Liszt preform his Transcendental Études and I find that hilarious 😂 he hated Liszt and Liszt hated him too haha
-"I read that he was a very kind and humble man which is not surprising since he is sincerely religious." I'm sorry, what? There is no necessary connection between being religious and being kind and humble. Some of the cruelest megalomaniacs in history have been driven by religious zeal.
My first day at College was having the Bass part for Brahms 4th Symphony in front of me in the student Orchestra rehearsal at 9:00 am. I had never played it or heard it before that day. I fell in love with it and immersed myself in Brahms' Orchestral music, the two Overtures and his Requiem. Wonderful stuff.
anyone who doesn't like brahms doesn't play violin or piano the fantasies op116 is my favorite piano composition of all time the violin concerto is my favorite piece ever written for violin the violin sonatas are among the top 5 ever written without question so much more to discover his music of immense beauty and charm
I've actually never been super interested in classical music. But for a few years I've noticed that when I'm really deep in despair,nothing quite helps like loosing myself listening to piano or violin symphonies... there's quite nothing like it.
Didn't that whole trend towards more and more motivic music already begin with Beethoven? I mean his music is full of short motifs being developed and woven together to create amazingly intricate music. Funnily, both Brahms and Wagner did the same thing, so they really are in that way both descendants of Beethoven.
Short motivic music is a characteristic feature of the Classical period. Just listen to a first movement of the Mozart 40th. IMO Brahms has gone much further in this direction. Almost every phrase is linked by some way or another to the previous one. Also Brahms had enormous talent of creating long "romantic" melodies out of these little themes, which made his music both modern and classical
@@xura7CB On the subject of long melodies: wasn’t there a competition of sorts among his contemporaries on who could create the longest Melody and still have it all together? I believe I read this in the biography or other authority works.
Brahms' ability to weave melodic figures into a cohesive whole has always blown my mind. But as someone fascinated by orchestration one of the most remarkable things about his writing is that he constrained himself to the instruments of Beethoven's time as well as the forms. He consistently wrote for natural (valveless) horns and trumpets when valved instruments had been in use for decades, and almost always used paired winds in his symphonies. Meanwhile, his contemporaries were writing for massive orchestras and new instruments like Wagner tuben and saxophones just because they were new and cool. Brahms' symphonies literally could've been played during Beethoven's time. Studying Brahms early in my life taught me that the greatest creativity is only possible with constraint.
@David Scalvim ah, I think I see what you mean. Anyway, I just put Mahler there firstly because he's one of my favourite composers (the other ones are the same I listed above) and secondly because OP comment was about Wagner practivally saying that no more symphonies shall be produced in the future when in reality... He. Well. The rest is history. And still, not everything that Mahler produced was intrinsically programmatic, though perhaps we still can give ourselves an idea of the topics he was exploring in his non-programmatic symphonies.
@David Scalvim how would you recommend to start loving Wagner's music? Seems interesting but the duration of his operas... I can't xd. Unless I go in person to hear some of his operas (which in these times is not possible), I'm not going to otherwise sit and listen to those inmensities at my home. I've only heard some overtures.
I always wonder in almost every video about the "battle" between the new german school and the conservatives especially in vienna people seem to ignore the symphonies of Anton Bruckner. He was a devoted Wagner fanboy, sure, but managed to create his very own language and style, adapting the new german school to a form that seemed dead to the likes of Liszt and Wagner, and even lay the groundwork for Mahler and his epicness. Could you maybe do a video or an episode of your podcast about the works of Bruckner?
What a fan-tas-tic article! Congratulations for such an insightful essay on such an historical master of Classical Music that was Brahms!... And be sure that I'm eagerly looking forward to your others essays on your Channel "Inside the Score" 👏👏👏
Alright, The geistliches lied is great and his symphonies are amazing too, but the best of Brahms is absolutely his chamber music (especially the quintet Op.34 and the Quartet Op.60). Not to mention his violin concerto.
Love your videos! Would you consider doing one on Scriabin? Whilst he is well known amongst classical music fans he is not so known to the public and, in my view he was a true visionary who must be counted amongst the great founders of modernism in music along with Schoenberg, Debussy, Ravel and Stravinsky. (And, just as Brahms and Wagner both lead to Schoenberg, so Scriabin led to other developments by composers who used some of the same scales he did - I.E. Stravinsky and Messiaen using octatonic scales, which Scriabin also did in his later compositions)
Everyone here is about the music. I’m just some random dude concerned that Schumann got his mythology wrong and Minerva popped out of the head of Jupiter.
Poor guy, with those monsters established as the most exquisite, no wonder it took so much time to face them. It must have been a tough task, full of contradictions and insecurities. To produce something new in a world where everything has been said, it must have been a great challenge.🌟
This is a good and informative video, I find it strange though that it doesn’t mention Bruckner at all. Brahms was many years the junior of Wagner, his contemporary was Bruckner, who was also a symphonist. Hence he competed with Brahms on Brahms’s turf, moreover, both lived in Vienna. Now even though Bruckner wrote symphonies like Beethoven, the musical language he employed resembled Wagner, at least in some aspects, and Bruckner was a devoted fan of Wagner. The pro-Brahms press in Vienna hated Bruckner for this. Today at Brahms and Bruckner are rightly regarded as two of the greatest symphonists ever, and the ‘war’ of that time seems absurd and misplaced. As if musical greatness could be decided by formal categories. By the way, I indeed found it strange to find Schumann among the conservatives, also Mendelssohn. Both of them really predate the war of the romantics. And as the video rightly notes, Schumann was quite an innovative composer himself, Carneval for example clearly follows a storyline. A conservative was Schumann’s widow, Clara Schumann, who almost physically detested Liszt and disliked Bruckner.
Schumann was actually kind of the fulcrum - both sides could accurately look to him and his music as a launch-point for their positions. His direct heir, philosophically speaking, was actually Joseph Joachim Raff (1822-1882), but few remember him anymore (although his music is starting to make something of a comeback) precisely because his attempt to straddle both philosophies led both sides to repudiate him after his death, and his music fell out of the repertoire. It is noteworthy that Raff and von Bülow were great friends, to the point that Raff dedicated his sole piano concerto to him and it was von Bülow (an acclaimed pianist and conductor as well as music journalist) who gave its first performance.
Brahms (1896): "I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant! I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
Richard Tessier Absolutely agree. He’s the most versatile and emotionally complex composer we have. To think what he could’ve done had he lived to just 50 years old makes me so sad. It’s hard to find people who give Mozart his due and appreciate his musical nuances. The reputation of his music in the popular imagination and even among musicians is terribly skewed. He’s not some simple, austere, merely pleasing composer who just wrote pretty melodies. Mozart spans the whole psychological spectrum. Here are some quotes you might like. www.spiritsound.com/music/mozartquotes.html
@@michaelwu7678 I particularly enjoyed these ones : The most tremendous genius raised Mozart above all masters, in all centuries and in all the arts. (Richard Wagner) Before Mozart, all ambition turns to despair. (Charles Gounod) Mozart is the greatest composer of all. Beethoven created his music, but the music of Mozart is of such purity and beauty that one feels he merely found it-that it has always existed as part of the inner beauty of the universe waiting to be revealed. (Albert Einstein) I never heard so much content in so short a period. (Pinchas Zukerman) Thank you
@@historicwine1283 Nope. Consider that Bach had 30 years more of maturity to explore his genius. Even if you make abstraction of this, which is unfair (unfortunately, we can not know which work of Bachs would not have been composed had he died at 35 but we know that most of his cantatas were composed after his 40s...), we could pit one work against the other and Mozart would fare better. Its quite fun to do, by the way. Against the passions, I would put the operas: St-John vs Don Jiovanni St-Matheus vs The Magic Flute And concerning sacred music: For example, the mass in C vs the great mass We can do the same thing with the concertos and keyboard pieces. Mozart never wrote for solo violin nor cello but Bach never wrote a symphony nor a lied! There has never been such a great output of masterpieces in such a short time as with Mozart... One other contender would be Schubert, but he was so young! Who knows what would have been if they all died at 65?
His first symphony is one of my favourite pieces of classical music ever. I got to play it when I was still in school. There was a project every summer where amateur musicians could learn and practice a piece of classical music with the help and addition of professional musicians and after a week we would perform it at an open air concert in front of the opera house. The first time I participated we played Brahms' first symphony and I instantly fell in love. Such a great symphony
In the middle of all this stands Bruckner who was firmly in the Wagner camp but was a traditional symphonist. He has been characterized as the only casualty in a bloodless war.
Thank you for this. I’ve felt Brahms to be a mystery - I lose the thread so easily, and it really must be my lack of musical education - I can follow Beethoven, Sibelius and Mahler (particularly) without a problem. I will try again, with perhaps some reading to help understand this undoubted master.🙏
An excellent essay on the "War of the Romantics" is given by Barbara Tuchman's chapter on Richard Strauss in the _fin de siecle_ history _The Proud Tower._
Jessica Xia, you forgot the greatest of them all!! Mozart :-) Its funny because a great friend and I used to have the same 3 Bs ! but it was Beethoven, Bach and Bozart... However, as I became more mature (I hope!!), I came to realize how Mozart had all the "qualities". He did everything to perfection (by the way, Bach, Beethoven and Brahms could not write operas; Beethoven struggled so much with Fidelio!). So one of the the last things I told him was that we should change the 3Bs for the 3Ms : Mach, Meethoven and Mozart.
I think his piano concertos are perfect examples of how he uses motifs The second movement of his second piano concerto is literally just elaborating on a few motifs
It really speaks volumes that while I was distracted at the gym listening to this and you described Brahms' approach to symphonies, I genuinely thought for a minute you were describing Wagners approach to opera. Two sides of a similar coin despite their differences
Easy answer to that question! Because his music is gorgeous. And, he is one of few composers with music in my personal top 10 of all time - with the German Requiem.
Hehe, I find it somewhat comforting, at home, or flowing through a familiar celestial realm or something listening to this bit of history being narrated of a war of romantics feel as if I am watching or being immersed into the epic struggles and rivalry of Legend of the Galactic Heroes all over again.
I've never really warmed to Brahms, but you make a good case for him. He was under huge amounts of pressure to live up to Schumann's prophecy, and write a successor to Beethoven's 9th - and he delivered.
No, Brahms did not deliver. His 4 symphonies pretty much sound the same. On the other hand, Beethoven's 5th, 6th and 9th are very different. Brahms could never accomplish anything close to Beethoven's 3rd. And you can't even compare the sonatas nor the quartets.
@@richardtessier9436 there's something in what you say but it's harsh. Brahms did deliver worthy companion pieces to Beethoven but didn't go far beyond him. And as you say, he didn't have his range or variety of expression, but virtually no other composers did either. I meant to emphasise the pressure and difficulty of the historical moment, and I think Brahms did all anyone could have asked of him.
@@GreenTeaViewer Interesting that you mention the pressures and difficulties of the historical moment for Brahms. Beethoven had to fight the small-mindedness of the nobility, the incomprehension of critics, sold concert tickets on the street, had to survive a drunkard father who beat him in the middle of the night, and then, ultimately, you know, become gradually deaf.
@@richardtessier9436This is just a dumb argument. Brahms' symphonies are just as much formally accomplished as any Beethoven symphony. And especially compared to the Eroica. You people mindlessly regurgitate that the Eroica is great, but have you actually thought about the fact that the Eroica is actually not as formally accomplished as what came later. Look at Beethoven's 4th and you'll see. The movements of the 3rd do not balance each other well, but in the 4th they do. And this is the case for all his subsequent symphonies. Why does it matter if the Brahms symphonies sound similar? All anyone should care about is if they're great. And they are. And further, it's stupid to compare his quartets and sonatas to Beethoven's when they clearly are not equivalent in their output. The sonatas and quartets make up like 70-80% of the entire chamber music of Beethoven. For Brahms, the piano sonatas are early works, and yes, the string quartets are not his best chamber music pieces. But they are not substantial in his chamber music output. Much of what Brahms wrote in chamber music has no equivalent in Beethoven. Also, Brahms' string quintets are much much greater than Beethoven's.
@@richardtessier9436 If you hit four home runs in a similar manner, they are in fact home runs. The similar manner is merely a technique leading to success. And if you wished to claim that each of Brahms' symphonies is a carbon copy of the previous one, you don't know what you are talking about.
Thank you so much for this excellent and well researched series on the major composers, putting their work, lives and creative endeacours in the social, political, artistic and musical context of their times. They have given me a new understanding of many of the pieces which I thought I knew, and brought them to life in an engaging and fascinating way.
Please continue doing this “why listen to” series, really hypes me seeing my personal favorite composers here, and other great musicians as well 💁🏽♂️
Liszt, Chopin, Debussy, Paganini etc. are some great suggestions
@@niccolopaganini1782 not Paganini. Paganini was not a great composer
maybe some lesser known composers like Carlos seixas from the baroque era
@@davidkolodziejczak71 or even household names like Bruckner or Britten but which are perhaps not as huge as ones like Brahms
Brahms taking 14 years to finish his first symphony gives me renewed hope that I might one day finish my own.
20 years*
Tfw Schumann will never hail you as the new Prometheus tho
I agree. That instills faith and hope in myself.
Pretty sure he finished other works during that time, though.
It's not as though he didn't write reams of great music during those 14 years. He just felt he hadn't the right to assemble 90 musicians and several thousand listeners until he had it just right.
I’ve spent the past year of my life (in my undergrad) studying Brahms. Specifically his 4 symphonies. I’ve conducted all but the 2nd, and I have fallen in love with his writing. In my graduate degree, I will study orchestral conducting and I will spend the rest of my life studying this beautiful music. Thank you,
EJPF
I hope you know how fortunate you are !
E. J. P. F. Let me wish you the very best in your studies, degrees and career choices. May you be
Blessed
Happy
Healthy and
Serene. Kindest regards, Gregg Oreo long Beach Ca Etats Unis Happy days of Celebration to you and your family. Gregg Oreo long Beach Ca Etats Unis
Can you please give me some insight on how you study music? Like what are the nuances that you look for when studying a particular score or a music piece?
It was Brahms who actually closed the door behind and ended Beethoven's era, opening the road for the rest of composers to become who they were in their music. For example, Mahler.
Closed the door? You find many Beethoven elements in Brahms symphonies and Mahlers for that matter.
Malher was more Wagnerian than Brahmsian.
Ironically, Malher inserted voices in his symphonies, which has not been done by any other romantic composer while keeping the appellation of symphony (Berlioz, Mendelsohn, Liszt). Seems that Mahler is "born" from Beethoven and Wagner.
@@richardtessier9436 Ehm, what about Mendelssohn's "Lobgesang" symphony and Liszt's "Faust" Symphony, both with choral movements? No, Mahler wasn't the first since Beethoven to use voices in his Symphonies.
@@hape3862 I always thought that the Faust symphony was a symphonic poem! As for Mendelssohn, I totally stand corrected! Nice to know. In my defense, that would be only two symphonies in the span of almost 100 years...
Born into a blue-collar family, I was forced to learn the accordion while others played the guitar. I only learned popular songs so my knowledge of orchestral music was practically nil. I took a music theory class in high school in. 1972, but we never really discussed classical music and hardly listened to it. I saw a photo of a young Brahms in my textbook. He had long hair so I thought he might be cool (lol). I went to the record store where I bought lots of rock albums and found Brahm's Symphony #1 in C minor. I didn't really get it, but kept listening. I now agree with assessment of Von Bulow; it's easily on par with Beethoven best work and could have been his "10th." There is so much there! Thanks for this, I enjoyed it!
I actually think knowing how to play the accordion is cooler than the guitar! :)
Well Louisa, your the first person to ever say so to me! LOL. Thank you! It made my day.
@@ronricherson6685 Playing the accordion is cooler than playing the guitar.... TWO people have now said it.
Clearly, you've not been on the receiving end of the mockery, jokes and so on that I got! Whenever I played accordion (when one was available), I used it for comedy as much as anything...Weird Al, anyone? LOL. My favorite Gary Larson comics (The Far Side) involved music; he was a musician too. He had one that was split into two panels. On top it had someone who had died and angels said, "Welcome to Heaven, here is your harp." On the bottom you can guess what it had, "Welcome to hell, here is your accordion." Not too many hit songs with the accordion... but I conced, it has its place. Two votes? Not exactly overwhelming... haha
That's a great story. Ya I didn't get the first symphony at all. Just 45 minutes of playing notes. Took about 3 listens to hear the long drawn out melodies. Id say its unmatched. The emotion from the first movement at least.
Brahms is one of my favorite composers, especially his fantastic body of chamber works.
Agreed on each point. Nothing beats his solo and chamber music for me. Especially his late works--ops. 116-119, the clarinet sonatas, the clarinet trio, the clarinet quintet. Academically complex and absolute masterpieces of craft, but you'd never know it by the aching, autumnal beauty.
@@LeGrandJohnson I echo your sentiments about Op. 116-119 and the clarinet sonatas
You mean Mozart i suppose ? ok.
@@LeGrandJohnson An especially beautiful early chamber piece is the Trio, op. 8. And yes, the clarinet works are very, very wonderful!
@@laurenth7187 Mozart's clarinet works are great, but that doesn't subtract from the beauty of Brahms', does it?
Everytime i hear Brahms 1st Symphony immediately i wanted to cry, it‘s such a beautiful and majestic piece😭❤️
Could be a Pavlov reflex... :-)
There's nothing like it - but it has to be taken slow tempo...
My wife and I both consider the 1st to be the highest attainment in music. And his Violin concerto is #1 in the Violin repertoire. I've yet to figure out his Piano works.
At age 17, he wrote his first piano sonata.
And it’s a masterpiece.
At 20, he wrote his third piano sonata.
And it’s a masterpiece.
And he never wrote another.
At age 16. Mozart writes his Allelujah, it's a masterpiece.
Yes - Brahm's first sonata is like Beethoven's 7th Sonata or 18th Sonata - a huge work full of dynamism, 4 solid movements, a classic of the form just full of energy. I prefer it to his 2nd and 3rd Sonatas, based on pure 'Listen up!' announcement and self-confidence.
J.D. The first phrase of opening theme sounds like (exactly like?) Andrew Loyld Webber's "Don't cry for me Argentina"!!
@@nelsoncheng4638 Now you know where Lloyd Webber steals his stuff.
As an opera singer who has been in the business for almost thirty years, it is no coincidence that my favourite composer wrote no opera.
Wagner: "Beethoven ninth is the end of the symphony"
Mahler : "Hold my beer"
Bruckner: "Wait for me too!"
RIGHTTTT
Not related to the video, but of all people, I happened to be reading the wiki page of Aetius earlier today
I'm not sure Wagner ment this as literally as you seem to interpret
@@clavichord I'm not sure Flavius Aetius meant this as literally as you seem to interpret
“nobody died” Hans Rott begs to differ.
in fact they all died, this was over 100 years ago
Hans Rott was crazy. promising, but crazy.
If Rott had lived, he might have surpassed even Mahler!
your “why listen to-“ series are more engaging and informative than my lectures at music university were, please keep doing them!
I am in awe of Brahms' Requiem. I sang it with my fellow choristers three years ago, and it still resonates after the pandemic. It is a towering work.
Absolutely. One may speculate from where the inspiration came?
I have been an opera singer for 26 year and it is no coincidence that Brahms is my favourite composer, never having written an opera. I enjoyed the video and send thanks from Weimar.
Check out Brahms' violin concerto if you haven't... it's absolutely beautiful from start to finish.
Do you have an opus number? Is it 77?
@@alexanderfiebrandt6732 yes Brahms violin concerto and piano concerto no 1 is a must to check out 😍😭
The dialogue between solo violin and orchestra in the first movement of Brahms' Violin Concerto . . . nothing like it.
Brahms is such a giant! His music requires you to really listen in to those subtlety’s of phrase and harmony, that’s where his treasures are.
This is my favorite composer so it was great to see this video. Thank you
Brahms' larger works are great, but where I think he really shines is in his solo and chamber works. The Clarinet Sonatas are masterpieces, as are the Clarinet Trio and Clarinet Quintet. Both cello sonatas, his violin sonatas, all of his late piano solo music--there's just nothing but great pieces in this output.
Also, if anyone wants to get this type of content on Brahms in greater depth, Jan Swafford wrote a great biography.
This channel is just brilliant! Its so good to see someone making an effort to make classical music more understandable and accessible! Gonna have a listen to Brahms' first with all this in mind! Thanks a bunch 😊
Brahms created so many masterpieces for an incredible variety of performers and forms.
Very possibly the greatest composer of the all.
if Brahms wanted to write great melodies he could, I think his most famous and accessible works attest to that. but that's not what he was interested in. a lot of what Brahms was interested in followed in the footsteps of late Schumann, who was experimenting with thematic fragmentation and recombination within the framework of larger forms. the interest in his music mainly lies in the formal and harmonic tension and buildup he generates, rather than any "great theme" he wanted to impress upon his listeners. a performer who tries to mine Brahms for a catchy/attractive melody will miss the mark in his playing as much as a listener who tries to listen to Brahms for the same. Thematic fragmentation being akin to elements. And a composer is a chemist who creates "reactions" by combining things together
This is absolute poetry. As a Liszt fan I think I shall have to go back to Brahms with your words in mind and relisten
I'd like to understand music the way you do. What has been your learning path? Of course listening to music but as much as I listen, I just don't get it.
@@chedagoz7145 it just takes time man. You gotta train the ear and the brain to follow the various melodic and harmonic lines, but it comes in spontaneously after a while (especially if you play an instrument)
Samaritan Outstandingly valuable insight . Thank you !
@Vox Daze Tchaikovsky and Brahms both were not impressed with each others music. Brahms thought Tchaikovsky was way too emotionally indulgent. Vulgar. He preferred more subtle means of expression. Brahms' music is highly distilled to express subtle combinations of emotion whereas Tchaikovsky had his heart on his sleeve. Both were great composers. Nobody could write melodies like Tchaikovsky. Brahms achieved the sublime through more sophisticated means.
Great!!! Took me a while to warm up to Brahms, I didn’t get it at first. Now I can’t get enough. No matter how many times I hear the 1st movement of the 2nd symphony, it never gets old.
I'm stunned by the number of works in Brahms' catalogue. I particularly love his choral music; it's wonderful to sing.
Dude his violin concerto is absolute fire too! Basically all I've listened from him so far Ive loved
Wow, that was intense. The jedi knights of music.
Brahms' 1st symphony is the first work by him I ever listened, and I was most thrilled when I first recognized the motivic relation between the opening of the 4th movement and its "triumphal" development. Since then, I fell in love with Brahms' music. This video opens a door to a huge world of exploring and analyzing Brahms from this "interwoven motives" point of view, so thanks a lot!
Same with me. I could have written this post.
The work that Brahms intended to be his 1st Symphony, actually became the Piano Concerto No. 1.
I love his Klavierkonzert in D-Moll (in english d minor) op 15. It blows me away.
Wagner: "Beethoven's ninth is the End of the symphony"
Tchaikovsky: ha ha adagio lamentoso go awww
Genius
Exactly. Brahms was right, Wagner was wrong.
But were there really any significant contributions to how symphonies are written between Beethoven and Mahler/Shostakovich?
@@Συναισθησις Bruckner
@@flaviusaetius8358 how even?
You can't forget his trios, quartets, sonotas, and concertos. The quintet in f is one of my favourites.
Brahms is a Composer that makes you lean far in to his musical world to understand it’s riches.
Words are not adequate to express my appreciation and thanks for the commendable job that this channel is doing for making us understand the vast expanse of the beautiful universe of western classical music. Great job. Carry on. Want more on Brahms , Chopin and also on all the all-time great composers.
Reminds me of German New Medicine's philosophy: Disease begins in the mind.
Of the making of music there is no end, in all it's forms.
You are one of the music channels with the highest quality out there, keep up the good work👍👍👍
Can an honest man request an analysis of Brahms' Third Symphony?
Such a beautiful piece. The 3rd movement with the melody in the Cellos is heartbreaking
An honest man needs no analysis of Brahms' Third Symphony.
You need to follow Richard Atkinson! He just did seperate videos on each movement of the first symphony. Each movement gets its own video. Dude puts in the work. He said he plans on doing all 16.
Wagner is my favorite composer. His influence is incalculable.
But Brahms is an undoubted genius. His harmonic innovation and craft are works of the highest order.
His third symphony simply floors me with every listen.
His third is my favorite work of art by anyone in any medium. I've been in love with it for over 60 years. No composer rewards repeated listening like Brahms.
I'm floored by the 1st mov alone of Brahms' 4th symphony! 😁
As an Austrian who loves Brahms, I really appreciate this series! Keep it up!
I adore Brahms and yet I have never heard of the Geistliches lied! Thank you for introducing me to this gorgeous piece!
My favorite instruction from a conductor was that Brahms first symphony has to start as if the music has always been there, and we are only just now noticing it.
Outstanding introduction of my beloved Johannes Brahms, I highly praise your quality work, bravo and thank you. Please carry on.
The musical education I never had. Thank you.
It was his piano music that finally convinced me what a great composer he was.
It is worth noting that during this period orchestras were getting large, more orchestras were being created, musicianship was improving and…yes…bigger and better venues were being funded and constructed. Beethoven really had to hustle to get his music performed, even in Vienna and the performance quality was probably not up to par with its technical demands.
The improved environment for orchestral music may have been due in part to the industrial revolution.
Similar paradigm changes took place years later with the advent of recorded music and radio.
It is humbling to think that these phenomenal artists probably only heard their symphonic works a mere handful of times. Those of us born into the age of recorded music are unbelievably fortunate.
One can only imagine how appreciative the musical giants would be of your enthusiasm, commitment, and passion. I may not be a giant, but I am certainly thankful.
Bruh, the universe is weird. I started understanding Brahms like a month ago and then now that I'm quite obsessed with some of his works and trying to learn an intermezzo you post this.
Me too! I had quite the trouble getting into Brahms but now I love his music. I also play his Intermezzo op.118 no2
@@apug296 Great.
The most daring, innovative, creative, astonishing, prolific, amazing genius of all these is, surely, Franz Liszt.
Absolutely. Liszt is my favorite composer right after Beethoven.
@@Lordran__ Liszt is extremely difficult and challenging music for the beginner but his harmonic experimentation was extraordinary and revolutionary. My favourite compositions of his are the Années de Pèlerinage and his piano sonata.
@@tonyanderton3521 I still need to listen to anées can you recommend a recording?
@@p-y8210 My introduction to the Années was with Alfred Brendel's performance of Les jeux d'eau à la Villa d'Este (I think from 1980 on Decca) and it's still a favourite. Claudio Arrau's is also excellent. Other highly rated interpretations of the Années are by: Lazar Berman (1977, I think), Jeno Jando (Naxos, 1980s), and Jorge Bolet. For modern recordings, I love Stephen Hough. Cedric Tiberghien received rave reviews for his release in February 2019 of a number of Liszt's works but only the third year of the Années was included. I haven't heard Tiberghien so I can't say personally, only that his album was highly rated in the BBC Music Magazine.
For me, listening to Liszt, and especially the Années and the Harmonies poétiques et religieuses, is about whoever can best take you in to a meditative state. Liszt was a very spiritual composer and, for me, the two interpreters who can capture Liszt on both the spiritual and meditative levels are Arrau and Brendel. But other listeners will undoubtedly have other views.
I hope that helps. Best wishes. Tony
bravo! Liszt remains, alas, the most undervalued among the greatest composers.
I find most of his music, especially his orchestral output, academic and pedantic. His chamber music, such as the clarinet quintet and the piano trios are heavenly.
His 1st piano concerto is anything but academic (as the main feature that comes to my mind). But I admit there is something else going on in interpreting his music. That 1st Piano concerto is very often played as a pedantic academic monstrosity by many virtuosi. Thanks to Grimaud, in my case, I could finally connect the dots between the concerto and the turbulent moments in his life depicted in movies and biographies. My fear is that other symphonies that are recorded are suffering the same destiny.
The opening measures of Brahms’ 1st, like Bach’s Matthau-Passion, sends glacial shivers down the entire spine of history.
Ya gotta love Brahms. Each symphony written by him is terrific. His 2nd is my favorite, but they're all great.
I'm going to hear 1st and 2nd live this weekend! Can't wait. I've played them both, and they're each among my favorite pieces to play (double bass). The writing lays so well in the hand.
Yes, it took Brahms 20 years to finish his first symphony. What I find even more remarkable is that the following 3 symphonies are arguably even better than the first. The fourth symphony is an absolute masterpiece, equaled only by his second piano concerto...the final conclusion of a man dedicated to music entirely...
"Brahms had an early fascination with techniques of ancient music."
And he did audacious things with them!
Composing a passacaglia for the last movement of his 4th symphony is a little like choreographing the final battle scene in "Avengers: Endgame" as a 20 minute Lindy Hop.
Apparently Brahms fell asleep when he first heard Liszt preform his Transcendental Études and I find that hilarious 😂 he hated Liszt and Liszt hated him too haha
that's pretty funny but why, why did they hate each other
Didn't he fall asleep when Liszt performed the second sonata too ?
Nah he fell asleep when liszt played his sonata in b minor. Brahms was reportedly tired from a trip.
Its funny because if I understood the video, Liszt b minor sonata is composed very much the same way as his symphonies.
-"I read that he was a very kind and humble man which is not surprising since he is sincerely religious."
I'm sorry, what? There is no necessary connection between being religious and being kind and humble. Some of the cruelest megalomaniacs in history have been driven by religious zeal.
My first day at College was having the Bass part for Brahms 4th Symphony in front of me in the student Orchestra rehearsal at 9:00 am. I had never played it or heard it before that day. I fell in love with it and immersed myself in Brahms' Orchestral music, the two Overtures and his Requiem. Wonderful stuff.
anyone who doesn't like brahms doesn't play violin or piano
the fantasies op116 is my favorite piano composition of all time
the violin concerto is my favorite piece ever written for violin
the violin sonatas are among the top 5 ever written without question
so much more to discover his music of immense beauty and charm
I've actually never been super interested in classical music. But for a few years I've noticed that when I'm really deep in despair,nothing quite helps like loosing myself listening to piano or violin symphonies... there's quite nothing like it.
I have been waiting for this a long time!
Didn't that whole trend towards more and more motivic music already begin with Beethoven? I mean his music is full of short motifs being developed and woven together to create amazingly intricate music. Funnily, both Brahms and Wagner did the same thing, so they really are in that way both descendants of Beethoven.
Short motivic music is a characteristic feature of the Classical period. Just listen to a first movement of the Mozart 40th. IMO Brahms has gone much further in this direction. Almost every phrase is linked by some way or another to the previous one. Also Brahms had enormous talent of creating long "romantic" melodies out of these little themes, which made his music both modern and classical
@@xura7CB On the subject of long melodies: wasn’t there a competition of sorts among his contemporaries on who could create the longest Melody and still have it all together? I believe I read this in the biography or other authority works.
Brahms' ability to weave melodic figures into a cohesive whole has always blown my mind. But as someone fascinated by orchestration one of the most remarkable things about his writing is that he constrained himself to the instruments of Beethoven's time as well as the forms. He consistently wrote for natural (valveless) horns and trumpets when valved instruments had been in use for decades, and almost always used paired winds in his symphonies. Meanwhile, his contemporaries were writing for massive orchestras and new instruments like Wagner tuben and saxophones just because they were new and cool. Brahms' symphonies literally could've been played during Beethoven's time. Studying Brahms early in my life taught me that the greatest creativity is only possible with constraint.
Violin concerto of Brahms by Hilary Hahn - golden!
Wagner: Beethoven's Ninth is the end of the Symphony.
Shostakovich: Sharup you mouth!
Sibelius: hold my alcohol.
Mahler: hold my world.
Rachmaninoff: hold my Russia.
@David Scalvim ah, I think I see what you mean. Anyway, I just put Mahler there firstly because he's one of my favourite composers (the other ones are the same I listed above) and secondly because OP comment was about Wagner practivally saying that no more symphonies shall be produced in the future when in reality... He. Well. The rest is history.
And still, not everything that Mahler produced was intrinsically programmatic, though perhaps we still can give ourselves an idea of the topics he was exploring in his non-programmatic symphonies.
@David Scalvim how would you recommend to start loving Wagner's music? Seems interesting but the duration of his operas... I can't xd. Unless I go in person to hear some of his operas (which in these times is not possible), I'm not going to otherwise sit and listen to those inmensities at my home. I've only heard some overtures.
Haydn..? Lmao
Segerstam: Only 104? I'm on 342 and am still writing...
I always wonder in almost every video about the "battle" between the new german school and the conservatives especially in vienna people seem to ignore the symphonies of Anton Bruckner. He was a devoted Wagner fanboy, sure, but managed to create his very own language and style, adapting the new german school to a form that seemed dead to the likes of Liszt and Wagner, and even lay the groundwork for Mahler and his epicness.
Could you maybe do a video or an episode of your podcast about the works of Bruckner?
I love Bruckner too, but surely he is too much of an oddball and his symphonic works aren't as accessible as that of Mahler
What a fan-tas-tic article! Congratulations for such an insightful essay on such an historical master of Classical Music that was Brahms!... And be sure that I'm eagerly looking forward to your others essays on your Channel "Inside the Score" 👏👏👏
As an amateur violinist in a community orchestra I love playing Brahms symphonies.
Tchaikovsky melded right in the middle, composing operas and symphonies :)
great among the greatest!
Alright, The geistliches lied is great and his symphonies are amazing too, but the best of Brahms is absolutely his chamber music (especially the quintet Op.34 and the Quartet Op.60).
Not to mention his violin concerto.
You forgot the clarinet quintet, still officially my favorite, as basic a fact as my favorite color is blue ;-)
This UA-cam video was superbly done, and I greatly appreciate your efforts to educate and elucidate. I have always loved Brahms.
Love your videos! Would you consider doing one on Scriabin? Whilst he is well known amongst classical music fans he is not so known to the public and, in my view he was a true visionary who must be counted amongst the great founders of modernism in music along with Schoenberg, Debussy, Ravel and Stravinsky. (And, just as Brahms and Wagner both lead to Schoenberg, so Scriabin led to other developments by composers who used some of the same scales he did - I.E. Stravinsky and Messiaen using octatonic scales, which Scriabin also did in his later compositions)
Bruckner conciliating this conflict with his Symphonies.
Everyone here is about the music. I’m just some random dude concerned that Schumann got his mythology wrong and Minerva popped out of the head of Jupiter.
Never heard "Geistliches Lied" before. It really is a beautiful piece of music. Thanks
My mother is a voice teacher and has a large oil painting of Brahms. So there is my reason why.
Poor guy, with those monsters established as the most exquisite, no wonder it took so much time to face them. It must have been a tough task, full of contradictions and insecurities. To produce something new in a world where everything has been said, it must have been a great challenge.🌟
This is a good and informative video, I find it strange though that it doesn’t mention Bruckner at all. Brahms was many years the junior of Wagner, his contemporary was Bruckner, who was also a symphonist. Hence he competed with Brahms on Brahms’s turf, moreover, both lived in Vienna.
Now even though Bruckner wrote symphonies like Beethoven, the musical language he employed resembled Wagner, at least in some aspects, and Bruckner was a devoted fan of Wagner. The pro-Brahms press in Vienna hated Bruckner for this.
Today at Brahms and Bruckner are rightly regarded as two of the greatest symphonists ever, and the ‘war’ of that time seems absurd and misplaced. As if musical greatness could be decided by formal categories.
By the way, I indeed found it strange to find Schumann among the conservatives, also Mendelssohn. Both of them really predate the war of the romantics. And as the video rightly notes, Schumann was quite an innovative composer himself, Carneval for example clearly follows a storyline. A conservative was Schumann’s widow, Clara Schumann, who almost physically detested Liszt and disliked Bruckner.
Schumann was actually kind of the fulcrum - both sides could accurately look to him and his music as a launch-point for their positions. His direct heir, philosophically speaking, was actually Joseph Joachim Raff (1822-1882), but few remember him anymore (although his music is starting to make something of a comeback) precisely because his attempt to straddle both philosophies led both sides to repudiate him after his death, and his music fell out of the repertoire. It is noteworthy that Raff and von Bülow were great friends, to the point that Raff dedicated his sole piano concerto to him and it was von Bülow (an acclaimed pianist and conductor as well as music journalist) who gave its first performance.
Brahms (1896):
"I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's. . . . I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!
I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant. . . . Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies-these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission-his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works."
I agree with Brahms there: Mozart was the greatest of them all, even greater than JS Bach who had the fortune of dying an old man.
Richard Tessier Absolutely agree. He’s the most versatile and emotionally complex composer we have. To think what he could’ve done had he lived to just 50 years old makes me so sad.
It’s hard to find people who give Mozart his due and appreciate his musical nuances. The reputation of his music in the popular imagination and even among musicians is terribly skewed. He’s not some simple, austere, merely pleasing composer who just wrote pretty melodies. Mozart spans the whole psychological spectrum.
Here are some quotes you might like.
www.spiritsound.com/music/mozartquotes.html
@@michaelwu7678 I particularly enjoyed these ones :
The most tremendous genius raised Mozart above all masters, in all centuries and in all the arts.
(Richard Wagner)
Before Mozart, all ambition turns to despair.
(Charles Gounod)
Mozart is the greatest composer of all. Beethoven created his music, but the music of Mozart is of such purity and beauty that one feels he merely found it-that it has always existed as part of the inner beauty of the universe waiting to be revealed.
(Albert Einstein)
I never heard so much content in so short a period.
(Pinchas Zukerman)
Thank you
@@richardtessier9436 Ha, Bach decidedly eclipses Mozart.
@@historicwine1283 Nope. Consider that Bach had 30 years more of maturity to explore his genius. Even if you make abstraction of this, which is unfair (unfortunately, we can not know which work of Bachs would not have been composed had he died at 35 but we know that most of his cantatas were composed after his 40s...), we could pit one work against the other and Mozart would fare better. Its quite fun to do, by the way.
Against the passions, I would put the operas:
St-John vs Don Jiovanni
St-Matheus vs The Magic Flute
And concerning sacred music:
For example, the mass in C vs the great mass
We can do the same thing with the concertos and keyboard pieces.
Mozart never wrote for solo violin nor cello but Bach never wrote a symphony nor a lied!
There has never been such a great output of masterpieces in such a short time as with Mozart... One other contender would be Schubert, but he was so young! Who knows what would have been if they all died at 65?
His first symphony is one of my favourite pieces of classical music ever. I got to play it when I was still in school. There was a project every summer where amateur musicians could learn and practice a piece of classical music with the help and addition of professional musicians and after a week we would perform it at an open air concert in front of the opera house. The first time I participated we played Brahms' first symphony and I instantly fell in love. Such a great symphony
Really great to get some understanding into these composers when you are only a low level musician. Thanks ❤
In the middle of all this stands Bruckner who was firmly in the Wagner camp but was a traditional symphonist. He has been characterized as the only casualty in a bloodless war.
Thank you for this. I’ve felt Brahms to be a mystery - I lose the thread so easily, and it really must be my lack of musical education - I can follow Beethoven, Sibelius and Mahler (particularly) without a problem. I will try again, with perhaps some reading to help understand this undoubted master.🙏
I would like to suggest you to make a video about the evolution of Sibelius' symphonies.
Agree.
@Steven Moore Yes! Which is your favorite? Why?
I have the feeling that Brahms symphonies are out of this world.
Just discovering your channel, great video. Thanks very much for this.
Best channel on UA-cam.
Excellent episode!! Thank you!!🌺
An excellent essay on the "War of the Romantics" is given by Barbara Tuchman's chapter on Richard Strauss in the _fin de siecle_ history _The Proud Tower._
thanks for the advert!
what a fun, interesting video! I will listen to Brahms now!
Wonderful Music Forever !
My favourite composers are the 3 Bs - Bach, Beethoven, and BRAHMS!!!
Jessica Xia, you forgot the greatest of them all!! Mozart :-)
Its funny because a great friend and I used to have the same 3 Bs ! but it was Beethoven, Bach and Bozart... However, as I became more mature (I hope!!), I came to realize how Mozart had all the "qualities". He did everything to perfection (by the way, Bach, Beethoven and Brahms could not write operas; Beethoven struggled so much with Fidelio!). So one of the the last things I told him was that we should change the 3Bs for the 3Ms : Mach, Meethoven and Mozart.
Check out Bruckner, like the requiem, symphonies like 4 + 9
I think his piano concertos are perfect examples of how he uses motifs
The second movement of his second piano concerto is literally just elaborating on a few motifs
It really speaks volumes that while I was distracted at the gym listening to this and you described Brahms' approach to symphonies, I genuinely thought for a minute you were describing Wagners approach to opera. Two sides of a similar coin despite their differences
I LOVE THOSE KIND OF VIDEOS!!!! PLEASE CONTINUNE DOING THEM!!!! THANK YOUUUU
11:52 - what I say when I've just finished doing my hair.
Ive played his first cello sonata before, such a great piece, i highly recommend the du pré recording
Easy answer to that question! Because his music is gorgeous. And, he is one of few composers with music in my personal top 10 of all time - with the German Requiem.
Hehe, I find it somewhat comforting, at home, or flowing through a familiar celestial realm or something listening to this bit of history being narrated of a war of romantics feel as if I am watching or being immersed into the epic struggles and rivalry of Legend of the Galactic Heroes all over again.
thank you very much . i think you have just saved me from boredom . yes . YOU are utterly compelling ! and you did fill gaps in my little fabric
I've never really warmed to Brahms, but you make a good case for him. He was under huge amounts of pressure to live up to Schumann's prophecy, and write a successor to Beethoven's 9th - and he delivered.
No, Brahms did not deliver.
His 4 symphonies pretty much sound the same. On the other hand, Beethoven's 5th, 6th and 9th are very different. Brahms could never accomplish anything close to Beethoven's 3rd. And you can't even compare the sonatas nor the quartets.
@@richardtessier9436 there's something in what you say but it's harsh. Brahms did deliver worthy companion pieces to Beethoven but didn't go far beyond him. And as you say, he didn't have his range or variety of expression, but virtually no other composers did either. I meant to emphasise the pressure and difficulty of the historical moment, and I think Brahms did all anyone could have asked of him.
@@GreenTeaViewer Interesting that you mention the pressures and difficulties of the historical moment for Brahms. Beethoven had to fight the small-mindedness of the nobility, the incomprehension of critics, sold concert tickets on the street, had to survive a drunkard father who beat him in the middle of the night, and then, ultimately, you know, become gradually deaf.
@@richardtessier9436This is just a dumb argument. Brahms' symphonies are just as much formally accomplished as any Beethoven symphony. And especially compared to the Eroica. You people mindlessly regurgitate that the Eroica is great, but have you actually thought about the fact that the Eroica is actually not as formally accomplished as what came later. Look at Beethoven's 4th and you'll see. The movements of the 3rd do not balance each other well, but in the 4th they do. And this is the case for all his subsequent symphonies.
Why does it matter if the Brahms symphonies sound similar? All anyone should care about is if they're great. And they are.
And further, it's stupid to compare his quartets and sonatas to Beethoven's when they clearly are not equivalent in their output. The sonatas and quartets make up like 70-80% of the entire chamber music of Beethoven. For Brahms, the piano sonatas are early works, and yes, the string quartets are not his best chamber music pieces. But they are not substantial in his chamber music output. Much of what Brahms wrote in chamber music has no equivalent in Beethoven. Also, Brahms' string quintets are much much greater than Beethoven's.
@@richardtessier9436
If you hit four home runs in a similar manner, they are in fact home runs. The similar manner is merely a technique leading to success. And if you wished to claim that each of Brahms' symphonies is a carbon copy of the previous one, you don't know what you are talking about.
Excellent insights and impulse for teaching.
I am proud that I am even able to understand his vocal music as I am German.
I freaking love this channel man
Thank you so much for this excellent and well researched series on the major composers, putting their work, lives and creative endeacours in the social, political, artistic and musical context of their times. They have given me a new understanding of many of the pieces which I thought I knew, and brought them to life in an engaging and fascinating way.